Through It
Through It is a Christian podcast hosted by Ariana and Kimberly - two women who love Jesus and have been through it. Join them for real, faith-filled conversations on how to talk through it, walk through it, pray through it, and get through it.
Through It
Do You Want To Be Healed?
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Why would Jesus ask a man who had been paralyzed for 38 years whether he wanted to be healed? And why does the man’s response seem to miss the question altogether? This week, Ariana + Kimberly explore the miracle behind this encounter in John 5 and invite you to ask yourself... is Jesus is asking you the same question?
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I wonder what it is like what about the I don't know human condition or experience that where we must get some sort of like endorphin from complaining.
SPEAKER_00I think it's because we just have a sin nature.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's better said, yes.
SPEAKER_00And there's also something about like um wanting, yeah, to complain to someone. It's like it's like the dichotomy of like we have sin nature, but we're also created for community. But then if you put those together, are you kidding me? What a nightmare! Yeah, a community of complainers.
SPEAKER_01I mean, they say misery loves company, misery loves company, yeah. And um complaining breeds complaining.
SPEAKER_00One thing always begets the other thing, yeah, yeah. Actually, more coffee does not help. More coffee means I need more coffee, yes, in the long run.
SPEAKER_01Too much sleep will only make me sleepier. Yes. Funny how that works.
SPEAKER_00I know. We're we're worms.
SPEAKER_01We're worms, ants. Yeah. I'd rather be an ant than a worm. I would rather look at an ant than a worm.
SPEAKER_00I saw this thing on Instagram. Uh it's this person thought she was getting ready to smash like a spider, but it was like eyelash clusters that were being carried by three ants.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. That just got funnier and funnier and funnier. Like floating across the floor. That's so funny. Not even a big queen ant use her lashes. That is so funny. Even just like she thought she was gonna smash a spider and it was eyelash clusters. Yeah, that was funny.
SPEAKER_00But also disgusting. Like, what are they feeding off of on that?
SPEAKER_01What are they, yeah. What are they doing?
SPEAKER_00Uh um, I'm gonna follow your lead on this because there is a lot of content and I want to know what direction you want to take it in. I don't think we have any shortage of content at all.
SPEAKER_01We've got we've got a good amount of stuff to do. So much.
SPEAKER_00This is like a really fun passage, I think, to break down.
SPEAKER_01I think so. I hope so.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I had written down some things too that I am sure will just kind of come up generically.
SPEAKER_01We're back in business. Welcome to through it.
SPEAKER_00Back in business, welcome to through it. This is Kimberly.
SPEAKER_01This is Ariana. Happy to be here, and we love Jesus, we do, and today we're gonna talk about John 5. Yes, and um coincidentally or not coincidentally, a couple weeks ago, Mani Soleil and I talked about John 4, and we talked about John 4 because we had just covered it in her Bible study. And um I actually missed their last Bible study where they covered John 5. Oh, no way! Yeah, I mean, I missed it too. So it's actually the the point of how we get to this story is pretty cool. I didn't, I don't even think I told you, Kim, the whole backstory of the story. I was actually gonna ask you. Friday morning, um, I was praying, and the prayer turned into what we were gonna talk about this week. Because we had kind of thrown some things back and forth, but it wasn't set in stone. And I wanted it to be just fully from the Holy Spirit. Like I didn't want to just come up with make up something to have something to talk about. Yes. And um a couple hours later it was I heard something or I saw something. I think I saw a video probably on um Instagram of the chosen. Um the scene from the beginning of John 5 when Jesus heals the man at the pool and um Bethesda. And I I don't know, I wasn't paying attention, and I heard Jesus say, Do you want to be healed? Yeah. And then it felt like that's it. Like I felt like that was like the confirmation of like this is what we want to talk about. And my ideas just started like flowing, that's so great. Dumping. And I started putting things together and looking into things, and then I had text you, like, hey, do you know what you want to talk about? Is there something else? Uh-huh. Because we were talking about maybe doing just an extension of um what we talked about in Nehemiah, and you agreed that you like the idea of talking about um John 5. And then as I'm doing research, or as I was like reading through it and going through um cross-references, it actually directly cross-references Nehemiah 3. Yeah, so it just felt like another piece of like confirmation of this is this is what you can talk about. I'll give you this context.
SPEAKER_00I love that, and I love how the same scenario or moment could confirm something for you and could confirm something different for me. And how we say, like, in the Bible, a passage normally has multiple lessons that's being taught. Like, God is doing multiple things at one time because it's like for you, that was a confirmation that you needed, like, okay, John 5, let's dig into this. And for me, it was like, can sit in Nehemiah just a little bit longer and just continue to do a study in it. Yeah, and so that was really great because when you texted me that screenshot of the cross-reference, I'm like, come on, there's something here, Lord.
SPEAKER_01I know. Speak. It was so cool. I don't know if I did it justice in the retelling of the story, but when I saw that, it was like, whoa. I felt it in your text. Yeah, thank you. I did. Yeah. So um there are I don't know that we'll get we'll have the chance to go through the whole chapter, but I do want to get through what we can. I specifically um talked about or put into the notes um chapter five verses one through nine. So I want to start by reading one through nine for us. Um, do you happen to have it open? Would you mind reading it from the ESV? Because it reads different in the KJV and Amplify.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and feel free to stop me too if you want clarification on anything. So John 5, 1 to verse 9. After this, there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is in Jerusalem by the sheep gate a pool in Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades. In these lay a multitude of invalids, blind, lame, and paralyzed. One man was there who had been an invalid for 38 years. When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, Do you want to be healed? Or do you want to be healed? Verse 7. The sick man answered him, Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up. And while I'm I am going another step down before me, Jesus said to him, Get up and take your bed and walk. Verse 9. And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.
SPEAKER_01That's one through nine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Nice. Thank you. So I kind of um wanted to get, I'm gonna maybe like rapid fire some of these things so that we can like get into our own discussion and commentary. So a couple things. Um, the Jesus went to Jerusalem for it says a feast of the Jews. So it doesn't say specifically what feast. It could have been um it's speculated that it could have been either Passover or the Feast of Tabernacles, which is also called the Feast of Booth. Um and it the feast is thought to symbolize the fulfillment of the old covenant in Christ, who is the true Passover lamb and the light of the world. So there is a feast, Jesus is coming to Jerusalem for the feast. We don't know which one it is. Um, and then it says in Jerusalem by the sheep gate, a pool called Bethesda. So last week we were talking about Nehemiah rebuilding the Jerusalem wall, and the sheep gate is rebuilt during that time in Nehemiah and chapter three. Uh-huh. So in Nehemiah chapter three, verse one, the sheep gate is rebuilt and consecrated by Elishahim. How do you say that name? Eliashib.
SPEAKER_00I have to pull it up.
SPEAKER_01E-L-I-A-S-H-I-B. I would say Eliashib. Elishib and his fellow priest. So the sheep gate was a gate used for sheep to be brought through the the wall.
SPEAKER_00Any animal sacrifice for there you go, yeah.
SPEAKER_01For any animals to be sacrificed in the temple. That's that's why it was there, and that's why it was called that. And this pool, Bethesda, was by the sheep gate. How cool. I know, how cool. And why does he tell us that?
SPEAKER_00You know, yeah, that's a great question. Like every detail that is in the Bible, like we should question like why why is that detail there? Like, why is that written like that? What's the intention? What is God speaking?
SPEAKER_01Even the way it says that so in the ESV it says um it has five roofed colonnades, colonnades, also called porticos, um, which creates it's they're like columns that make like a porch. And um I even looked up like where other places in the Bible says colonnades, and there's not that many. Okay. Um there is something a reference to Solomon. Solomon made them I can't remember if it was for the temple or for his palace. But that's for another place where there's porticos and colonnades. Okay, cool. Not a lot. I was trying really hard to get as deep as possible into this.
SPEAKER_00There's just like there's so much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and the so the sheep gate can be seen as foreshadowing for also for Christ, the Lamb of God, who entered Jerusalem and offered himself as the ultimate sacrifice. It doesn't say he entered through the sheep gate, it just references that there was the sheepgate close to the pool at Bethesda.
SPEAKER_00I now keep going. We we'll dive into it. Let's rapid fire cute, because I really will go up on a tangent. I was gonna say something, but I'm gonna hold. Are you sure?
SPEAKER_01Does it fit that? Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, well, so like the sheep gate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, that it is interesting that he mentions the sheep gate because we were talking earlier that Bethesda, can you remind me again? It means House of Mercy. House of Mercy or Mercy House. So if we think about mercy, right? And then we think about the sheep gate and sheep being sacrifice, like there's animal sacrifices that are taken through this gate, and it's like, why do we need a sacrifice? It's like an atonement for our sins to go kind of go back to God, not kind of, but to be one with the Lord, yeah, to to consecrate ourselves, and even in that, that's like such a mercy, yeah, to even be able to have a sacrifice to bring to the Lord. And so and that He could that He would even think about washing our sin away is like so much mercy in that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that this house of mercy, the pool of Bethesda, is next to this gate that allows us to walk through his gates of mercy. That's great. The Bible is so cool.
SPEAKER_01And see, I love that you have all of that, that you can you're able to pull from things that you know to be able to not piece it together, but to articulate it in that way. And that comes from reading the Bible. Like you don't know those things correlate until you read the Bible.
SPEAKER_00That's really great. And it comes from even like past conversations, fellowship, all the things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, being discipled, yeah. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00Let's keep this is great. Let's keep it moving.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so that covers the first three. It doesn't cover the first three verses, it covers the first couple verses. Yeah. So in verse three, in these lay a multitude of invalids, blind, lame, and paralyzed. So lay a multitude. Um, it doesn't say how many people there are, it just says a multitude. But we know that the other times that we see multitude in the gospels is um, I think it's in Mark and it's in Matthew. And in Matthew, it's the feeding of the 4,000, and Mark it's the feeding of the 5,000. And I don't know if that's the same retold in different ways or if those are two different miracles.
SPEAKER_00I'm unsure, but I want to say they're two different miracles.
SPEAKER_01I believe so.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So multitudes in both of those cases, in both of those recounts in the stories, it's only men who are counted. So the actual amount of people we can assume is closer to like 10, 12, yeah, 15,000. So multitudes are at this pool. So thousands. Yeah, thousands of people are at this pool. And in I was just telling Kim this, I I learned actually this morning about the pole of Bethesda that archaeologists found the pool that is referenced in this um in this healing miracle in the late 1800s, and then it wasn't until the 1950s that they started fully excavating it.
SPEAKER_00Which sounds so recent. That is recent, yeah. You know, that's like within the lifetime of people that are with us today. That's very recent.
SPEAKER_01At most one generation, yeah. Even like that it was discovered in the 1800s.
SPEAKER_00That even feels like not long ago.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was not that long ago, and we went a long time without being able to point to it geographically, right? And I don't know what anybody thinks about when they think of this pool or hears this story, but the size of the pool was like gigantic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01On one side of it that they have excavated, it was more than 42 feet deep.
SPEAKER_00Which I I love that fact so much because it really does paint a different picture than what was originally in my mind with maybe even like Sunday school lessons that you hear about this this specific passage in John 5. Because I'm like, even when you see like illustrations, yeah, the pool on the the pool of Bethesda, it almost is like illustrated as if like it's this little pond that people are gathering around. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like much that's how that was my perception, also. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_00I don't well, I think it a lot of influences from art, just like, yeah, subliminally, like the things that we've seen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so that is like the bias in which we read some of scripture, which we need to break that off because it's not accurate.
SPEAKER_01Study the Bible, yeah. So it was this huge pool and um bigger than an Olympic select an Olympic size swimming pool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So even that, when you think about because they say you have to be the first person in the water to be healed.
SPEAKER_00It might I don't know if it says I think it's fun, it's just the stirring of the waters that you have to be there during the stream. Because then, and then I think like, well, how long does a water get stirred? Yeah, it makes it seem like it's momentary.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I'm not sure how the logistics of that was, but there's obviously like tons and tons of people in need of healing, thousands of people who are in their need of healing. Wow. And then if you notice in most of our Bibles, it goes from chapter three to chapter five.
SPEAKER_00Verse.
SPEAKER_01Excuse me. I do that in every episode. Yeah, I do. This is the first time I caught it. I did that when I spoke at church too. I said chapter when I meant verse. So and it goes from verse three to verse five. So um chapter four. Ah verse four is missing. Okay. It was taken out, it's been taken out, or it's added as like a footnote or something. So um, it's actually pretty simple. It's not like a big conspiracy or like, you know, our Bibles are inaccurate or anything. Um, calm down people. Yeah. It's not in the ESV or the NIV, but you can find it in, I think, both King James and the Amplified Habit. So Oh, that's cool. The Amplified. Yeah, and the Amplified verse 4 says Um For an angel of the Lord went down into the pool at appointed seasons and stirred up the water. The first, here it is, it's where I got this. The first one to go in after the water was stirred was healed of his disease. So it was taken out because um it wasn't actually removed. It was rather the textual textual scholars concluded it was never part of the original text written by John. Instead, it was an explanatory note added by a later copyist. And so as um manuscripts were found and they were studied, it didn't fit with his writing style, or the the text just kind of like stood out. And so they felt like it wasn't written by John, it was it was like a note that had been added when people were copying manuscripts, so that's why it's there as a footnote and why it's not an a verse in most of our Bibles.
SPEAKER_00And also just to touch on that too. So even in the different versions, if it goes from verse three to verse five, so I have the ESV, there are footnotes, so pay attention to the footnote because it is included in the footnote, but also even beyond that, let's just say you have a version that doesn't have footnotes. Um, it doesn't change the core of what this passage is talking about, and it doesn't change the doctrine, theology, none of that. So don't let it twist you up. It doesn't change anything. Literally doesn't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it doesn't change anything about God's character, it doesn't change anything about what happens.
SPEAKER_00That's good, God's character, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Whether that is I um I think it does give some, I don't know, clarity to to notice that it isn't pagan. And that perhaps maybe I'm ideologically incorrect here, but perhaps like this is while Jesus was alive and hadn't hadn't yet been given himself as sacrifice yet. He has he didn't die and rise yet. So at that time, that is the way that God had given healing to specific people was through this pool. That that's what was needed at that time. I don't know. Yeah. But so there's just some some rapid fire um study things to get into before we go into the meat of it. Anything that I missed? This is the thing that's great.
SPEAKER_00I think this is a solid just like jump start into what we're gonna discuss.
SPEAKER_01So what stood out for me is the point of Jesus' verses really like three through six. So Jesus sees it, and that's what the the text tells us. Jesus sees the man, and he knows that he had been there a long time. And there's a multitude of people there, and still he walks straight to this man. Yeah. And he knows that he'd been there for 38 years, he knows that everything about this man, like what we don't know if he was 38 years old, or if and he'd been this way from birth, or if he was older and there was an accident, we don't know. But we just know that for 38 years, yes, he w was an invalid and and could not walk. And Jesus sees him. And I think that there's a couple times through these these passages that are like small, even just like a couple words that we If we say Ariana sees or Kim sees, it's regular. It's ordinary. We're used to reading that in any type of literature from when we could start reading. But to say Jesus sees, I think is so much more. It's a bigger, it's a bigger thing. Like he sees, he understands, he knows, he saw this person in the same way that he sees us.
SPEAKER_00I think even so you said Jesus saw. And even in verse 6, when Jesus saw him lying there and knew he had already been there a long time, that word new really stood out to me. And I actually had that circled. And I think that points to um the omniscience of God and the all-knowing. This is before he had exchanged any words.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It points to his divine nature.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Yeah. It points to his divine nature. And so we see these places in scripture that really reveals the godly nature, the divine nature of Jesus, and that being one of them. That's so good. I actually wonder, I'm curious with the word new in the original language, what that means. Um nothing. Well, I'm just gonna read it since I pulled it up. It's another word that's in probably different versions. It says realized, a prolonged form of a primary verb, to know in a great variety of applications and with many implications. So to realize to know, not in just one way, but like to know in a variety of different ways, knew his circumstance.
SPEAKER_01Like he empathized.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He understood, he felt it. And still, before he speaks to him, before he's exchanged anything with him, the first thing he does, I guess, is you know, after he's he sees he saw and he knew he asks him, Do you want to be healed? And this, I think this has been, I don't think I'm the first person to think to read this and and question like why. I feel like that's common that there's probably been hundreds, if not thousands, of sermons preached on that. But it still is so interesting in like why we ask him, do you want to be healed? If you know, it's the same questions like if you've never heard a sermon on this, it's he already knew he was he was um invalid, he was paralyzed. I have an easier time saying paralyzed than invalid. So I'm gonna change. It just reminds me of when I was little and I used to ask my mom to do things for me, and she would say, You're not an invalid. I don't know why she used that word. But so he knew he was paralyzed, and so he asks him, Do you want, do you want to be healed? And uh the first thing that I think about is how you and I talk often about like not making assumptions. And we live in a world, in a culture, in a society where we're almost shaped to um conditioned to to um assume things, to assume what somebody else is thinking, to assume what somebody else is saying, and then to jump to conclusions. Jesus never did that. Right. Even though he actually knew the only person to ever actually know. Yeah. And there's I think a few different things that you can play off of this here. Like one, it it there is free will involved. We have the free will. So him asking, Do you want to be healed? is in line with him honoring that. But what I thought was even better was um perhaps he asked to get this man to think of his needs and his condition. That ultimately the the question invites him to be introspective and it prompts him to consider his true desires and his readiness to change.
SPEAKER_00And there's a partnership that happens. There it's different if I'm gonna this might be like completely off topic, but I'm thinking about the Garden of Eden for some reason. And the only tree that God tells Adam and Eve to not eat from, like, I I think a question that people have often asked in terms of faith is like, why would a good God even put a tree there that you can't even touch or you can't even eat, you know? And I think there's many responses to that, but one of them being like talking about free will and having our own volition, it's like, is it love if you don't even choose? Like, is it love if all the circumstances are perfect and that's actually your only option?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But if there's an option to be obedient and disobedient, and I'm choosing to be obedient, it it reveals just the, I don't know, your pure intentions and full submission. Um, there's a partnership that's required, and there's even like a I don't know, a developing of your character within yourself when you're denying one thing and choosing the right thing. And so for the man to even like, do you want to be healed? Like Jesus is wanting him to like choose healing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I I like what you said about we can't ever assume. Because I thought about like someone that's homeless. You can't ever assume that, although it seems like it'd be common sense, but you can't ever assume that they want a home.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I remember it must have been something on like YouTube or something like that, like many years ago, because I don't even remember the full context, but I remember this. I think it was a documentary about the homeless people in Seattle. And there was this early 20s, maybe even like an older teenager, they're like, I don't want to move back home. Like I don't want to, I don't want to live in whatever place. They're like, I like living out here on the street, and I have my community out here. They got comfortable being homeless.
SPEAKER_01I have genuinely thought through that before.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like, not that I would actually be homeless, uh-huh, but I have thought through like how it must there must be some sort of freedom or an illusion of freedom that comes with zero responsibility. Yeah. Zero. You don't have to pay anybody anything.
SPEAKER_00And you're off the radar completely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then it's just really like maybe you do an odd job or you get somebody to help you, you have enough food. There's there's far more risk into it. But if somebody is, you can reach a level of um apathy or maybe even laziness.
SPEAKER_00Both.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, that's what you want. Yeah. Because you have you don't have no responsibility.
SPEAKER_00So the more like it's so easy in scripture to just read past that. And so to even stop to your point of like Jesus asking this man, do you want to be healed? is actually not a silly question, then.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's not, it's it's the most important question.
SPEAKER_01It's that we are silly, yeah, because we have all taught each other or agreed, have come up with this social construct of try to read each other's minds and assume you know what everybody thinks, feels, and wants.
SPEAKER_00And that to assume that it's the same thing that you want.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah. Like we're like, even that we see colors in the same way. We we we don't. Yeah. So it's not it's not a silly question, and I can't help but think of like what are the areas that that Jesus is asking me, do I want to be healed in? And I'm saying no. That's good. Without even realizing it.
SPEAKER_00That's really good. It's almost it reminds me of when someone is like, that's just how I am.
SPEAKER_01It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's my personality. Yeah. That is fill in the blank. But that's like, do you want to be healed? Because it almost is admitting, not that something's wrong with you, but yeah, that something needs to change.
SPEAKER_01It it does ask you to be accountable, right?
SPEAKER_00It's calling you to it's calling you higher. It's calling you to change something. Not a lot of people say they like change. I don't know. I kind of enjoy it sometimes.
SPEAKER_01But when I decide it, I love it. Yeah. When it's um outside of myself, I panic.
SPEAKER_00And when you realize there's something on the other side that is calling you higher. Yeah. Higher, you know, being closer to God, being better, growing, all those things.
SPEAKER_01Also, with this, like the asking of the question, like it is in when in leadership, when you lead people and you are in charge of developing them and making them into better whatever, insert whatever it is here, um, you don't give them when they ask you a question or when they need something, you don't just give them the answer. You like you, I would say like handsel and grendle them through their own answer. So like, and and with most things, even in like if I'm selling to another person and they say, like, oh, I need to, like, this is a dumb thing, but like I need to improve my deliverability rate of my emails, okay? Tell me why emails. What is what is an improvement? What number do you need to get from here to there to? So in in asking people questions, and even I think, like you said, Jesus has there's multiple teachings in one thing where yes, it makes us introspective, but also there's like a fuller picture of like a longer teaching of getting somebody to answer a question that we think might be assumed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like drawing something out of someone, but even again, then giving them an opportunity to even show up in that way. Um I'm thinking about when Kendrick was three or four, and I remember me getting frustrated that there was all of his stuff everywhere. It actually kind of hits a soft spot in my heart, even recalling this story. He was such a cutie, he still is a cutie, but like he's always had these chunky cheeks and like just his little baby face. But I remember I just get like mom guilt when I come down on him and I'm firm. But I remember in my own frustration, I was like, Kendrick, mommy can't clean up all these things for you. You need to start picking up after yourself. And I was, and I think the reason why I feel bad is because I was getting frustrated and I was speaking out of that frustration and I could have changed my tone. And so in my tone, he felt that as a little toddler. And so he's so sweet. So he starts like picking up all his toys, his, you know, waddling around, collecting things. He has all these things gathered in his arm now because he wants to like please me. And then he goes, Mommy, where do I put them? And then I just had that this like huge moment of like, oh my goodness, this is my fault. Because I've always cleaned up after him and I never taught him how to clean. So he's just putting things where they are because he actually doesn't know where its home is. Yeah, and I never gave him the opportunity to do it and equip him because I just did it for him all the time. And so he has he's holding all these things and it's such a vivid memory. And he's like, Where do I put them? I'm like, oh my goodness, that's my fault.
SPEAKER_01And so what a perfect way to picture this, though.
SPEAKER_00Like, I feel like that gives me like how how gracious is our our God that He gives us the opportunity to learn through things and doesn't just like Exactly and in our very immature ways of us being like, God, why aren't you doing this for me? Hello, he is presenting this beautiful opportunity for you to grow and to become equipped and know how to do it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So to know how to do it, and then it also it it's like he's he covers our back, he's in us with us in the present, and he goes ahead of us. Yeah, so in in all of these things, he's he's still helping us, like he's like full circle. Spoiler alert, this man gets healed. We haven't gotten there yet in the text, but he gets healed and can walk. But he is like his past hurt of not being being paralyzed is healed. God was with him to to restore that in the right now, but then he also asks him and continues to lay groundwork for him to prevent him from falling into things in the future, and it's all starts from just the way that he speaks, and it's it's not even that many words. And what I think is so also interesting of this this this verse is Jesus asks him, Do you want to be healed? And then the man doesn't even answer, like he doesn't say yes or no.
SPEAKER_00That is so wild to me. But but I shouldn't be so judgmental because the number of times again we talked about we don't give a straight answer, we don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00There's even like he doesn't say yes right away.
SPEAKER_01He doesn't say yes right away. So he's there is the question that Jesus asked him did prompt him to be introspective, and his introspection, his self-reflecting led him somewhere. And it wasn't yes or no, it was, and maybe I was being really harsh when I wrote these notes, but it led him to answering with his lack, yeah, with where he lacked, what he what more things that he didn't have to continue to pile on the problem, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's let's read that. So, verse seven. So, how does Jesus ask them, Do you want to be healed? And then the verse immediately after verse seven, the sick man answered him, Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up. And while I'm going, another steps down before me. I mean, I don't think you're harsh. He does speak from luck. He's like, I I have no one, I have no one, and so I can't.
SPEAKER_01Do you want to be healed? Oh, nobody will do it for me.
SPEAKER_00No, I mean, uh, no, I said, Do you want to be healed?
SPEAKER_01I didn't say why I have to be healed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Do you want to?
SPEAKER_01It's so funny. Yeah, like, oh what? And I I do this constantly where I read through it and I think about like this person, even like we talk about it with the Israelites, like, why can't they just figure it out and do it the right way when I know I'm not figuring it out or doing it the right way either? But I do like I do love that it was it was um uh I lost the word. Covered, not covered, uh recorded. There we go. Recorded in this way, so that I can then also be introspective and self-reflective and ask myself, like, where am I answering from my own lack?
SPEAKER_00That's great. It's it is a lot more relatable when you see how badly people have messed up in the Bible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's play, let's play a game. What are some things we are blessed, very blessed. We're we're um generally healthy, the two of us, and our families, two immediate families. So I don't know that there we don't have like ailments that we necessarily need to be healed from, but just like I don't want to say surface level, but like lighthearted. What are some things that people may ask, may feel like they need healing from?
SPEAKER_00Some things that people may uh that that like they don't realize, you think, or no that they do, like in the same way this man was paralyzed.
SPEAKER_01Okay, um, maybe let's say overeating.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's great. That's actually such a great one. That's let's go there. Okay. People, you know, I work in the health and fitness industry, and the number of times people say that they want to be healthier, and I believe them a hundred percent. I think we can all agree we want to be healthy humans, but hold on, let's not assume. Um, but then it's like you lay out, like you said, the groundwork, and then all of a sudden it's too difficult. Well, I don't want to not drink soda. Okay, uh, do you want to be healed?
SPEAKER_01Or I only had like one soda a day.
SPEAKER_00So with each meal, I think that's a actually a really great the overeating, the gluttony. I mean, we all like to indulge here and there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But if yeah, and then if like if you have a you recognize I am unhealthy in with my eating habits, and and somebody says, like Kim says, Do you do you want to be healthy? If you have this, you have a trainer and a coach who says, Do you want to be healthy? And you say, Yeah, like the being pausing and asking yourself, like, do you actually want to be healthy? Because guess what? It's gonna come with what you need to change, something.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01It's gonna come with an action and an and the discomfort of something being different.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Or even something as simple as like, I'm so tired all the time. How about you go to bed earlier?
SPEAKER_01Well, I can't because I have I work really late, and then it takes me a long time to like um It's my only time to wind down at the end of the day. Yes, and then I have to have another meal also before I go to bed. And um, I need to see my friends, right? Like answering with your lack. How many times, and I know I'm so guilty of this too, do I have a problem? I'm talking to somebody who about this problem. This person answers with a solution, and I give them back a reason why that solution isn't viable. Wow. Why it's not a possibility.
SPEAKER_00And I think that comes down to truly someone's readiness. Yeah, I feel like we had a conversation the other week that was similar in nature to this, but someone's readiness. Again, desire and curiosity is one thing, but the action that follows it. It's like I listen, there's this pastor named Neil Brower. I don't know if that's how you pronounce his last name, but he he's a great teacher, but he talks about intention versus curiosity, or I'm he goes, intention and curiosity are kind of in the same pool, but the seeking and the action that comes with it, it's not enough that you desire to be closer to God. Like, what actions are you taking actually to be closer to Him? Are you in the Word? Are you praying? Are you getting involved? Are you, you know, a part of a church community, all those things, but to just simply desire to be healed won't get you anywhere.
SPEAKER_01No, like you can practical steps. My dad used to say want in one hand and poop in the other and see which one weighs more.
SPEAKER_00That is so funny. That's such a dad uh example.
SPEAKER_01My parents say crazy things, apparently. But you're like, oh, makes sense. Yeah. Want in one hand and poop in the other. But um, I just lost train of thought thinking saying the P word too many times. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Pool or poop.
SPEAKER_01But back to verse 7, the way that this man says he has no one to put him in the pool. Um while he's on his way, another steps down before him. So the the futility of his own efforts, that we're all in need of healing and salvation, but we're unable to achieve it through our own efforts. And I would I would say that goes for all things and healing from anything, right? Like we um we need Jesus to to do all of that if if we have if we answer with um but but but and it's not like but God it won't work you can come up with an excuse as to why not for pretty much anything but God and at the end of the day it has to be only God and so he has been disabled for 38 years and he thinks that the only way that he will be freed or healed is by dipping into this pool when really none of that really was the solution, like the only way for his healing was for him to get it through Jesus, and in our life, like how we can apply that in so many different ways.
SPEAKER_00It's like, oh, you're depressed and you're trying to fill this void with all these other things. Well, guess what? The the only way to fill that void that you have is by walking and following Jesus, and that's it, and so that's it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, like the whole that could be the whole episode. I think that could be every single episode that we talk about. It's just that we're all looking for answers, we're all looking for something, we're all looking, period, and the all roads lead to Jesus, like every single answer is Jesus, yeah, in one way or another. If you want anything, you should want Jesus more. Yeah, you need feel like you need anything, you definitely need Jesus more. And the um I don't know, I just I think I know I'm guilty of this myself too, but the the conversations or different experiences, and even like when I think back to how I've how I was even in the past and like feeling um like it's possible for other people, but not for me, or um r really identify identifying too much with um like I didn't I didn't have like a normal upbringing. I didn't have like it it wasn't something that you would see like in a magazine or on a TV show. I had a it was a strange childhood, things happened, my parents were super young, were not your average parents, and it it led to different things. And I think that there was um a lot of years when I really blamed those things and thought, like, well, I I started life behind people, like I'm not as progressed as I should be because I started 10 steps behind everybody else, and then I caught up and then caught way up, and then started using that as even more of um like a point of pride. Like I still had this hand out to me, and I look what I did. Nobody gave me anything. Look how far I've come. And the truth is, like, I still did nothing. Yeah, like I was I was so blessed in what I had, and I blamed my my um circumstances, and then I I'm blaming my circumstances, and then God changes my circumstances and blesses me from them, and then I tried to take credit for those blessings. That's good.
SPEAKER_00What a great reflection to have, though. And now that we know that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and so for this man that's healed, so we talked about he does get healed, but he actually never even gets to the pool, he never even touches the water. It turns out, however, saying everyone, we're all looking in the wrong, looking at the wrong secondary source. There's only one source. And the 38 years of him waiting by the pool, it turns out he just needed Jesus, and so it was uh the Holy Spirit that healed him through Jesus. That's what actually gave him the healing. I feel like I read through this passage passage before, but I never realized it's like, oh, he doesn't ever even touch the water. Jesus, Jesus touches him, the living water touches him. I listened to this pastor say something that I thought was appropriate for this. Even how you're saying, like, we all are looking for this, we all have these needs, we all need something that we need healing from. But he says, one beg we're all one beggar helping another beggar find bread. I would who did you hear that from? Uh he's a pastor at Cornerstone Church.
SPEAKER_01I would use his name. I listened to that same sermon. He said that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, it was on John 5. Yeah. He had so many great points in that. I actually listened to him a lot. I don't know his name. I should know his name. I want to say his first name's Gary.
SPEAKER_01I could be totally wrong. I listened to the same sermon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I thought I was doing my hair, so I couldn't even write. It was doing my hair too. Okay, weird. Yeah. That's funny. But I thought I should, I gotta remember to say that.
SPEAKER_00Well, I wrote it down because I knew I would forget. But it's true, I couldn't agree with that more, and it makes sense that that line both caught our attention um because it really levels the ground. We all bring nothing to the table, and it's really Jesus. Yeah. All of it.
SPEAKER_01We we're just everybody, everybody. And I he was using that in a relation to like um relationships, pastoral relationships, and how you can't do everything. Yes, and people will tend to um believe that like pastors are closer to the source than they are, and um what the truth is that we're all one beggar trying to help another beggar find bread. Yeah, is that the truth? I'm always looking for bread. We should always be looking for bread, as long as we know we're all just beggars trying to help each other.
SPEAKER_00I want to touch on this too. We didn't even get to like the last part of it, but the fact that Jesus does all these healing miracles or miracles on Sabbath when by religious law people, especially during this time, were not allowed to work on the Sabbath. Um, the fact that Jesus does it on Sabbath really says something, and this is something that I learned that's really cool today. I was looking up how many miracles or what miracles has Jesus performed that's in the Bible on Sabbath, and there's seven recorded miracles that Jesus performs on Sabbath. So I just think the like the Bible is so it just is so deep and vast. But the fact that there's seven miracles that he does on Sabbath and what seven represents, and then I also think this is interesting the because who does not who's the only person that even through this religious law that could work on the Sabbath? Obviously, God, he does not need to rest and to build up more strength, you know, only God. And so the fact that Jesus is the one that's doing this on Sabbath, what does that point to? That Jesus is God. Um, the other thing, too, just kind of jumping around here as uh we're getting ready to wrap it up, but I find it interesting too that in verse 11, when the religious leaders are looking for who healed this man and you know, worked basically on Sabbath, that the man that's now healed, that and I was asking Ari, like how does this read to you? Like, what's the tone in this dialogue? Because I wasn't quite sure and I still don't know, but this is how it's reading to me. In verse 11, but he answered them, the man who healed me, that man said to me, Take up your bed and walk. So, right after this man gets healed, it's almost like so the religious leaders are now looking for a Jesus, and this guy's in trouble, basically, right? Because he picked up his mat. Like, how dare you work on the Sabbath? And as he's getting scolded, maybe that he puts the blame on Jesus. It seems of his character. So yeah, that's what I'm getting. Like, it's like his nature. Yeah, you know, it's like, do you want to be healed? Well, I have no one to put me into the water. It's like, oh, why did you work on Sabbath? Oh, that man made me do that because he told me that he told me to. And then later on, Jesus, just in his mercy, right? And in his grace, afterward, Jesus found him in the temple and he said to him, see, you are well. Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you. And I don't know how much time happened between that conversation with the religious leaders and when Jesus finds them, but that Jesus again presents them another opportunity. It's like, Do you want to be healed? Ask them a question. And now later on, he's like, Okay, now sin no more. Also, like, see, you're healed. Like, look.
SPEAKER_01Let's change something. Remember what remember what was done for you. Right. Now go sin no more. Right. So basically, I've given you grace for what has happened in between.
SPEAKER_00Even and I I know that you tried to put the blame on, you know, you getting in trouble putting the blame on me, you know, like just again, opportunity and opportunity to call us higher, whether it's healing, whether it's like, okay, let's be better. All right, smack on the hand here, some discipline. Okay, now sin no more. Like, just stop it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Before you end up back to where you were before.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And not to say that he was an invalid because of his sin. Like, we don't know what again his condition was exactly and what caused it, but just stop so you can walk forward in freedom and not end up worse than you were.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Whatever that is.
SPEAKER_01And there'll still be grace for you.
SPEAKER_00And there will still be mercy and grace.
SPEAKER_01A couple points from um from the last few verses before these. So verse verse eight, something I sat on for a long time was Jesus said. So verse eight, it says, Jesus said to him, pick up your mat and walk. Jesus said is Did I already talk about how important that was? It just feels like it it's a command, right? Like the Lord spoke. Like, let's not make that too normal. Like Jesus said, you know, and then get up. It's um a call to action in faith. So this this man has been paralyzed for 38 years, and Jesus's command challenges him and tell tells him to move, to do something he has not done in 38 years. And he also has to believe with faith that he had been healed to move and um do something he hadn't or could not have done in 38 years. Wow. So pick up your mat. Uh he can now carry with ease what once supported him, what he perceived as the place that he would be stuck forever and indefinitely. Jesus now took gave him this simple task to pick it up and carry it and move on. Yeah. So that post-healing, what was like where we were stuck is not it's not heavy anymore. Wow, that's great. It we can just now move on with it. Like it's it's not that it has gone anywhere else, it's just that it's now we have Jesus and it's lighter, it's easier. And the last part is and walk. So he's been restored. Um, his own efforts to get to the water to be healed didn't work, but after Jesus, it's done. Uh, we call our faith and relationship with Jesus our walk. Oh and Jesus isn't only um restoring him in the physical, but he's restoring him in the spiritual, and he's been invite he's invited him into a relationship. Yeah, and Mr.
SPEAKER_00Kendrick. I love that that we that we call our faith our walk. It's our faith walk. Yeah, and so the fact that he picks up his mat and walks is really kind of a cool little way to a cool spin on it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like pick up your mat and walk, and also makes me think a little bit of like how we say, like, it's come, follow, and go. Yeah. And he says, get up, pick up your mat, walk. Yeah, like like there's these actions, like we can't do it alone, but with his guidance and with him directing us and being with us, it's taking care of that's really great.
SPEAKER_00I've not made that connection before with even like pick up your mat, even you know, like pick up your cross. There's so many parallels there. I really, and for me, I'll probably dive into this even more after this because I try not to make my personal thoughts fit a revelation. Like, I want it to be true to theologically sound and true to the context, but like I love how the word comes alive in that way, and all these different things come flooding into our minds with even just how beautiful the word is with how it reads.
SPEAKER_01I and how like it the last time I read John, I think like intentionally, not just like a little bit here or there, was I don't know, six, seven months ago, maybe more than that. And even going back and like going reading through this chapter, it was it's just like new. And and it's not like I don't know, I it's not like it changed for me.
SPEAKER_00The words on the page didn't change.
SPEAKER_01The page didn't the words didn't change, the meaning didn't change, the context didn't change, but the closer you get to God, I feel like you there are new things that you uncover. Like it's there's always more that can be expanded on.
SPEAKER_00It reminds me this morning I read in Hebrews 4, again, a verse that many of you have probably heard, but hopefully this will something new will come alive. So verse 12 for the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. I feel like when you have free time, reread through that because it's so it's not just like a fun verse to say, like the word of God is living and active. No, like it is so powerful and so sharp and penetrating that it goes through even between the separation of soul and spirit, even between the separation of joint and marrow, something that is impossible to separate. The word of God could cut through that. To how do you even discern thoughts and intentions of the heart? The word of God does that. Yeah, and so it brings there's new meaning that comes to life as you read. That was a fun episode that I feel like we could keep going. And honestly, the only reason I feel like why we are wrapping it up is because we have to go to church. Yeah. Because there's lots of things that we didn't touch on. Yeah. Even you remember we talked about Theo Vaughn's testimony, yeah, and he was talking about the do you even want to be healed? And he was like confessing online. And he was like, I asked myself that question, and I don't know if I want to be healed because essentially there's he doesn't want to change his life. Like his life is comfortable and he lives well. He doesn't want to change.
SPEAKER_01But even a blessing that he has that, because I think probably the majority of us don't even have the self-awareness to think that. I think we can we're mostly stuck in the the victim of of course I want to be healed, but nobody puts me in the pool. Right.
SPEAKER_00And as The Ovan was talking, he was saying, like, I don't know if I want to be healed, but you could see his heartbreaking and he's emotional. And so that conviction and the weightiness of like, no, you actually you need to be healed. Yeah. Because at some point it's not just a want. Yeah. Forget what you want. At some point, in God's grace and mercy, he'll position you where you realize it's a need and you can't stay there anymore.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so, do you want to be healed? No, you actually need to be healed. So say yes. And pick up your mat and walk. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Pick up your mat and walk. All right, I'll pray. So all right. Thank you, Jesus, Lord. Thank you. Thank you that you ask us, Father, do we want to be healed? And all of the multitude of blessings that comes that follows from that, Father. Thank you that um you don't just make things happen, but you you go before us. You are with us in um our present and you were with us in the past to teach us and prevent us from recreating the same things or hurting ourselves in the same ways, Lord. Father, I pray that you search us and ask us again. Do we want to be healed of the places that we want to be healed? Both for myself, for Kim, for everybody who's listening here, Lord. And I pray that we all have the ability, Father, and the wisdom from your Holy Spirit to say yes, to look inside, to um check on ourselves and think that yes, we do want to change, we do want to be healed, Father, and that we're not going to answer with our lack, because with you we have no lack, Lord. I pray for everybody that needs physical healing, Father, that you're asking them the same questions. And if there is anything that they need to pick up, if there's anything that they need to understand, Lord, I pray that you give them fresh eyes and fresh ears to hear you and see you, Father. Thank you for everybody that's listening, Father. I thank you that you've given us a space to have these conversations, and I thank you that you continue to answer our prayers on what we speak to, Lord. I pray that there is a week ahead of us, um, just full of you, uh fresh revelation, ways of just extended time with you, new experiences with you. Um, and that we pray that your spirit lingers even longer with us and that we linger longer with your spirit, Lord. In Jesus' name, amen.
SPEAKER_00Amen.