Through It
Through It is a Christian podcast hosted by Ariana and Kimberly - two women who love Jesus and have been through it. Join them for real, faith-filled conversations on how to talk through it, walk through it, pray through it, and get through it.
Through It
Down The Rabbit WHOLE
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Ever ask a “dumb” Bible question that turns into a full-blown rabbit hole? Same.
This week, Ariana + Kimberly follow the questions that may seem random at first—but often lead to deeper understanding, surprising context, and fresh revelation about God. Come along as they laugh, wonder out loud, and remind us that curiosity isn’t something to hide. Sometimes the question you almost didn’t ask is the one that opens the door.
Follow us and send us your prayer request on Instagram at @throughitpodcast
Okay, so um I wanted to have uh I don't lighthearted is the wrong phrase. Fun is also the wrong phrase because I think all of our episodes but I think all of our episodes are fun. And um I had this thought this week of like we've been real studious recently, we've been real academic and going through the Bible and um really dissecting what things mean and I love that and I'd like to keep doing that, and we will, but today, rather than have like a verse we're going to study or talk about application of I just wanted to ask each other questions, yeah, in a silly, I don't know, lighthearted. Again, I'm going back to that fashion of like, let's all ask all the things that people think are dumb questions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I want to say conversational, but is that even like redundant to say let's keep it conversational when we're having a conversation? Yeah, but I like that just the back and forth. And we had even talked about um like one of our recent posts on social media. If you guys follow us, one of the points that we had said about like something to know before you even listen to the podcast is we are not teachers. And so Ari and I were talking, we don't want to go down this trail of like feeling like we're teaching because there's so much that we don't know. And we really just do this because, to your point, like we have fun talking about it. And I think naturally, maybe because of our personalities, we like to learn. And so by default, we end up become being a little bit more academic in our approach when that's not necessarily the nature of this podcast.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Or I mean it's our podcast, we can do whatever we want with it. Yeah, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Sometimes it'll be one way, sometimes it'll be another way. Um, we do really love to learn. I think my you you saying that prompted a thought in me. My whole life has been hearing something from somebody and then me, and me relating, liking it, learning something, getting a lesson, and then me relaying that to as many people as possible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And um I had mentioned earlier that I've just sometimes feel like an accidental plagiarist because of that. But I I I don't know how else not to be, you know, yeah. I guess it's that's kind of evangelism in a nutshell, too.
SPEAKER_01I really love that that concept. And you're right. So there's a reason why in Ecclesiastes it says there's nothing new under the sun, you know, for us to when it comes to our hardships, um, even when it comes to just sharing of information, like we're all just like, did I mean, do any of us ever have new new information that we're sharing? Like we're all just regurgitating things anyway.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I I will say that there is something we're talking about, like the heart posture. It's one thing to be like, hey guys, listen up, and then to say something and to almost like have the heart posture of like, I'm taking credit for it. This is what Kim really is saying, but it's not necessarily the case. But to your point, no, we just like, hey, I learned something. I want to share this with you because I love that I learned this. Yes. And then kind of going down that rabbit hole of even when someone says something, I love going back home and kind of looking deeper into it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because now I'm very interested.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I want to know more.
SPEAKER_03I'm I my life is rabbit hole to rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know what I rabbit holed this week? I want to know. Rastafarianism. So, how did that come to be? It's actually really funny. So I was studying. Well, this is and now I'm like, you got my attention, girl. I'm like, this is interesting. I I was studying things that are above my pay grade um about chiasms in Exodus and in Genesis and how they relate to rest and Sabbath, which is what we talked about last week. And um I was I can't think of I reference Exodus often. I love Exodus, but I can't say that word without thinking of the song, the Bob Marley song, Exodus. Have you ever heard it? I maybe have heard it, but I don't know the off the top of my head. It's like a nine-minute song, and the majority of the song is Bob Marley going, Exodus. Oh, I think I have heard it. So it's very uh at like first glance, it's biblically inspired, right? And then I had the thought of like, because he Bob Marley quotes the Bible often in songs. Um, like he quotes psalms and he he quotes just different things. So then I had the thought of like, well, I'm pretty sure Bob Marley practiced uh Rastafarianism. He was a Rasta. And I know they have some interesting beliefs. Yeah. So then I went from studying about what I was talking about, we were gonna talk about for the rest essentially, um, to turning on the Bob Marley song to then looking into Rastafarianism. Okay. And well, I know the lyrics just like off my head because I've been listening to the song for so many years. Uh-huh. But then I just I I knew they thought they had just an interesting doctrine. So I started looking into it. And it's a very perverted form of Christianity. And like very perverted, uh-huh, to where they they believe the Bible, they believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but they believe that this random emperor, and whatever, I'm just gonna talk about what it is. They believe that this random emperor of Ethiopia is the second coming of the Messiah. The emperor, to the to what, the best of my knowledge, never claimed that, never thought he was divine, never has really nothing to do with Rastafarianism. The emperor's name was Ras Tafari.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I was that's I'm so happy you said that because I was literally just gonna do a Google search on even what the name Rastafarianism or is rooted in. Okay. Well, his birth name. They changed it once he became an emperor.
SPEAKER_03How interesting. He never claimed to be anything, and some person said that him being, I mean, maybe he did claim it, but where it came, where it started from, some person whose name I'm forgetting said that Mr. Tafari being crowned as emperor was fulfillment of biblical prophecy, and then it that's essentially what started Rastafarianism. Rastafarianism, Rastafari's believe that Africa is Zion, and that these African people are the chosen people of God who will one day go back to Zion and be led by this emperor from Ethiopia.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'm not like a huge Bob Marley fan, but how he references Zion a lot. Yeah. Okay, when you're saying that you're like the emperor never even himself claimed to be the Messiah. It reminds me of like um in movies when there is like a foreigner that takes over or like comes onto like this indigenous land, or like oftentimes like a white man, you know, and then the indigenous people are like oh, and they start like bowing down to him as if he's a god, but he never claims to be. And he's like, wait, no, stop, I'm not, no, I'm not, you know, I'm just a normal human. Yeah, but like how when in this case it seems like maybe they just he did something. I need to dig more into this, more so out of curiosity. And they're like, wow, that's amazing. And then they dubbed him to be the messiah. Yeah, yeah. So, so interesting. Okay, so if you guys haven't caught on really what we're gonna be doing today, like she said, just different rabbit holes that we go down, and we're just gonna be talking about this is the rabbit hole I went down this week, or again, why don't more Christians talk about this? Or you said a question earlier. What did you say? Is this a dumb question? Yeah, is this a dumb question? Like these these were tumbling thoughts here. Um join us, join us, throw it into the comments as if we have a life feed.
SPEAKER_03Tell us, yeah, tell us your rabbit holes.
SPEAKER_01We want to know. Because the fact that you said that, I am like genuinely so intrigued and going back to like our personalities. Stuff like this is so interesting to me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so rabbit hole I went down this week. The last episode, or maybe a couple episodes ago, how we're talking about um the armor of God. But so I was digging into so when Paul wrote Ephesians, he was in prison. And so the view that he had, because if he was in prison, there was a guard guarding him so that he wouldn't escape. It was a Roman soldier, a Roman guard. And so as he's writing about the armor of God in Ephesians 6, maybe he has a view of the guard, maybe he doesn't have a view of the guard, but it's Holy Spirit inspired, but also also maybe inspired again. This is just like my thoughts going down a rabbit hole. He's like looking at a guard and writing this. I don't know. Um, Josh Howerton touched on that a little bit, I think, on one of his podcast episodes. So I'm like, well, what is that visual? So I went down this rabbit hole of learning a little bit more about Roman soldiers' armor. But specifically, I was reading on their belt. Interesting. And so when you think about a belt, it's like maybe today for guys it's just to keep their pants up, or for women, just an accessory piece. But for a Roman soldier, the belt had so much more um, not just like practical uses, but symbolism. And so your belt also it signified who your allegiance was to.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01And so when you look at a belt, it's like, okay, team so-and-so. Yeah. And so in the context of Ephesians 6, when it's like, okay, the belt of truth, so what is the truth? Yes, Jesus is a son of God, but also like I'm a child of God.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I belong to him.
SPEAKER_03That's cool.
SPEAKER_01And so it signifies even like who you are, but also the belt, not only does it attach to their trouser, but it's also a way of them holding on to their sword. And we touched on the double-edged sword. And so the double-edged sword that is like not like an actual long sword, like what you would think of a samurai holding or like someone charging into battle, but more handheld, double-edged, very sharp and pointy. That was like their primary weapon. And so the belt also held on to that. So, like you have your belt to show who your allegiance is, who you are. That's symbolic to who we are as Christians, Christ followers, but also a way to keep that sword close to you.
SPEAKER_03The belt of truth equips you with helps keep the sword of Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The the Word of God.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so I th that's pretty cool. Yeah. And so it just kind of went down that rabbit hole of even um Roman soldiers then in the first century, they had to like pay for their own armor. They did, which was very expensive. Interesting. So the soldiers that got recruited that had less, the ones that were poor essentially, like they had wooden shields, or like the soldiers that had more had like a bronze armor, which was more expensive. Um, but even like so that that sword, it's called a gladius, a Roman Gladius, the double-edged sword, even that was like fairly expensive.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you would think so because it's iron, right? Yeah, I guess. I think it's iron because weapons were made with bronze, and then over the bronze age and then the iron age, I think it was out of iron, but I yeah, I I want to say so too.
SPEAKER_01Also, don't imagine that bronze being as like strong like for a sword. Yeah, um, and then that changed over time as like past the first century, and it just I here here we go.
SPEAKER_03First, is this a dumb question? I've always kind of scratched my head on uh uh feet fitted with the gospel of peace. When when you went down your rabbit hole, did you touch on on that at all?
SPEAKER_01Like I I touched on it, but I didn't dive into it like I did with the belt and the sword. But I also thought that that was interesting too, because different versions say that your feet are shod with the gospel of peace. And I'm like shod. I just when I would have to basically quote that verse, I can never get it right because it is not like common terminology that people use.
SPEAKER_03And I think this is my fault in in just um, I don't know, the culture. And I think it may be possibly growing up in in a Catholic space, maybe. But when I think of the gospel, I think of this this book, you know, a a book. And the first time I read that too, and I was thinking about it. I'm like, you gotta put books on your feet.
SPEAKER_06I love that.
SPEAKER_03Like what fitted with the gospel of peace. I don't know. I think I I gotta figure, I gotta deep dive that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, what it makes me think about as you're saying that just right now in this moment is when you walk out your faith and you go forth and you walk in peace, and let every spot that your foot touches let peace follow you. That's good. And so when you walk in step with the spirit, how do you feel? Yeah, also taking it with you with every step, right? Right. So your feet fitted.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think the ESV says, what does it say? And as shoes on your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. I also like that, the readiness given. Like you're like a little bit of zeal, eager.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, when like you stay ready.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, part of this too, it was a different resource that I was using. I don't remember what it was, but even what stand is insinuating, right? And so to like stand firm goes it's a part of the readiness. Like, don't sit down, don't you know, give up. Like you stand, you're ready, you're not gonna surrender. You're standing firm. You're making a claim when you stand up for something, right?
SPEAKER_03In Jesus' name. Yeah, yeah.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03That's pretty interesting.
SPEAKER_01What is another I don't want to say dumb question?
SPEAKER_03We can say that. I don't I don't know if this is a question, but it is a thought I had this week, and I asked my husband about it. We can you and I can uh dialogue it out. Um, I was thinking about the Lord's Prayer, which I didn't realize until this week. I have my whole life referred to as the Our Father. But I was thinking about the Lord's Prayer and how let me go back a little bit. I actually was thinking about praying in general and why how it is difficult when you are maybe all the time, but I mean, maybe more so for new believers or newly saved people, praying can be uncomfortable or difficult. And for people I've had conversations with that didn't grow up with any sort of faith in the home, um, or at least like, you know, uh Christian faith in the home. They don't even know how or why to pray and what a prayer would sound like or how to structure it, right? And I was that was my first prompting. And what I said to my husband, I'm like, how interesting that there are people who grew up not even like with not even knowing that you can just talk to God, like at all times, even in your head. And um Frankie said that he said I actually he he himself had trouble with that and still does sometimes. And he said what he called was quote unquote canned prayers were easy. So that made me think of like we we both grew up in a Catholic home, so canned prayers what it makes me think of like the prayers that you recite as a Catholic person, one of them being the Lord's prayer, the Lord's Prayer. And he said canned prayers, more formal prayers, were easy, but when I had to be real or honest, it it was difficult. And then it led me to my next thought of thinking about how when Jesus taught the disciples how to pray with the Lord's Prayer, and it says the first line, our Father, which would have been Abba, our Father, it was it it kind of blew them away, right? Because that it was a personal, it was referring to God so personally, as if you have access. Right, in a way that they weren't used to, yeah, because they were used to more formal forms of communication to God. So at that time, that was the most like informal um way that they thought that they were thinking of, being able to say our Father, our Father.
SPEAKER_01Not just Yahweh, like a name so holy you can't even say, Yeah, but you can actually address them directly, and not even just address them directly, but call them Abba.
SPEAKER_03Right. And even at that time, like uh Jewish people wouldn't even say his name because they were It was so holy, it was so holy, and they didn't want to accidentally use it incorrectly, so they would call him like Hashem, which I think literally translates to just name, but I don't know. I'm not fluent in Hebrew, I'm not even a little bit in Hebrew. But the thought is I'm getting too off topic. The thought I had was like we now live in a in a time where the Lord's prayer is viewed typically as the most formal prayer. Wow. And that we have like almost over formalized it. I love this, I love this rabbit hole. And it it just, I don't know, I thought it was so strange to me because when it was introduced, it was not contr maybe it was controversial, I don't know, but in the way of just being able to speak to to Yahweh directly as our father and open up like this one-to-one personal relationship. It was so, so personal with the most holy, the most high. Yeah, and now we're here we are 2,000 years later.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I mean we we know we can talk to God, however, because he sees in our heart, anyways, but it we know we can talk to him anytime. And we have gotten after 2,000 years, we have decided that prayer is now too formal, yeah, or has been overly formalized.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Well, I also think too, it's like when things have been around for so long, it becomes so common. Yes, and that's not a good thing to make something that is holy so common. But in our flesh, that's our our I mean, like even with you know, our spouses, like you get so comfortable, like you have to be so intentional to be intentional with being intentional.
SPEAKER_03Intentionality, yeah, period.
SPEAKER_01Um this is not as profound, but as you were talking, my brain went here talking about like okay, then during this time, there was a temple, they still did sacrifices, um, they still needed a priest really to um intercede for them, right? And like when they did sacrifices, and this thought is inspired from another podcast, but like okay, so one goat for everyone, you know, like one sacrifice for the whole country that covers everything. Interesting. And I just like was thinking about that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like we're now it's so personal. Like, I personally have to go and repent. I personally have to lay down my own individual sin. I personally have to do that. Why? Because I have that full access. So now I you know, that's up to you to make that decision. But back then when our hearts weren't the temple of the Holy Spirit, they had like these feasts, they had um things like Passover, they had um a a day of atonement, they had but like a sacrifice to cover the whole country.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I didn't quite find an answer in it, but it was like a thought that crossed my mind.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean we have a sacrifice that covered all humanity.
SPEAKER_01And then fast forward. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we had that one, we have that one ultimate sacrifice that paid the price for everything. Yeah. So I guess that's symbolic in that way too. But this is why, too, like, you know, we're saying earlier the podcast is for us to have conversation about these things. And even oftentimes when we have like a more specific topic, we want to dig deeper and learn more. But sometimes like we go down these rabbit holes and it's so complex we don't fully understand it still. So even talking about this, I mean, like the sacrificial system they had is like so complex and so detailed and all these things.
SPEAKER_03Because sometimes they sacrificed grains. There were grain offerings, right? And then there's there's bird offerings, there's bulls. Yeah. There's yeah, and I I don't know that I'll ever read it enough to fully get it. I told I told Cam earlier, I can't wait to get to heaven one day and be like, but like what was this? Like, what was the timeline of this? Yeah. And her response was great that she was like, God's gonna be like, there is none. Right. There is none.
SPEAKER_01A thousand years is as one. I saw this real, this pastor was talking about, I can't wait to get to heaven and to be able to ask Moses, what was it like when this happened? To ask Abraham, what was it like when this happened? And Elijah and all these greats in the Bible, like the hall of faith, even, you know. And then they're gonna be like, what was it like to have the Holy Spirit? To have the Holy Spirit in you.
SPEAKER_03Did you watch this? We talked about it on here. Oh it was a long time ago.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah. And for us to just be like we went to church twice a month. Um we prayed sometimes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes we read our Bible, like you know, but you have the Holy Spirit in us.
SPEAKER_03Are you gonna talk about normalizing something that we do super normalize walking around with that every day? Yeah, like God has what's his name? Marty Solomon from Bay Maw said this, and I feel like I'm gonna be quoting it for the rest of my life. Like, God has changed addresses. And now He this is his address.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_03That is crazy when you think about it. Genuinely, think about that. Like the amount of work that prior to Jesus had to be done before this sacrifice for all of us for eternity to prepare the way, but then also just the access. Yeah, that it's just so easily given to us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have never thought about it like that because God can make anything happen just through his one word, right? But even for us and his grace, the preparation that Elijah came, you know, that John the Baptist came to be the forerunner for Jesus, for Jesus, even to make that sacrifice so that we could have what we have today. Is I can't, I can't. These are the things, okay. When we go down these rabbit holes, this is the thing that we have to accept is that we will never fully understand, and that there will just be mysteries that are mysteries until we are in eternity. Do you feel like you struggle with that or can you sit in that? And no, I have full acceptance of that because there's just no way. When I dive into the Bible, like you said, rabbit hole to rabbit hole, going down this, this, this. And even when I go down and I read things, I'm like, I still don't understand. I am so okay with that. But this is why, like we said in the beginning, I just pray for the rest of my life there will be an unfolding of the living and active word. I don't ever want to get to a place of like, oh, got it. Yeah, that's good. Now next.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm gonna chill on the couch and watch home improvement for the next 60 years.
SPEAKER_01I was in the car, and a lot of times when I'm driving in the car and Kendrick's in the backseat, um, he asks really, really great questions. And so yesterday he asked me, he's genuinely confused. He goes, I got a question. I got a question. He's that's how he starts every question. I got a question, mom. I'm confused. Why are Jesus and God the same? Kendrick, you know, and and then he was like, and why don't more p people believe in Jesus? Like he really wanted to know. What good questions? I know. These are like really like when we ask questions, we're we're wrestling and I think in a healthy way. And for him to ask that at six, but it's like I had to end the conversation with like, here's the thing God is God, and we're people. We're we're not gonna ever fully understand the entirety of God. And he was even just okay with that response. Because even he's like, I'm not getting this. Yeah, I just don't get it.
SPEAKER_03Like they're describing or explaining the trinity is like that for me, and probably for a lot of people. I don't know that anybody feels like I've got this. There's we have many, many, many, many, many scriptures that explain it, but I don't know that we're ever gonna have full understanding of the trinity at this side of eternity.
SPEAKER_01Because we're human. I was on a prayer call with our friend, and um she was talking about modalism, and there was a part on the call where we had a realization of like a lot of us probably need to repent. So modalism is a Christian belief. I'm reading this definition, stating that God is one single person who shows himself in three different ways. So a lot of times when we make these analogies, trying to help someone gain a better understanding of what it means for God to be a triune God. We, I'm sure you've heard um using water as an example or an ice cube, you know, and that there's like vapor, like the Holy Spirit, water, um, like God and I think ice is ice is you know, whatever it is. But the thing is What are you afraid to say it? That's and it's it well, it's not it's not sound theology, yeah, because the Trinity it's not three separate, it's one. And so even in the way that those analogies uh can be helpful for some people, that's actually kind of like false teaching, yeah because God is one.
SPEAKER_03It I think it's just one of those things where I you know I'm thankful for God's mercy and knowing that we cannot comprehend because um we will probably try to, I I will probably try to explain this to somebody and probably have already at some point in my life and do it wrong and not be able to articulate it accurately because I don't I because the I haven't gotten that wisdom from the Holy Spirit. I know. And do I need it? Probably not.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I uh that's something I've I've accepted that I I don't understand. I'm not gonna be able to explain it to you if you ask me questions about it. We can pray about it because we know where wisdom comes from. Um, but does it I don't know, it doesn't really like change anything.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, and even just to touch on that too, like, because the thing is the Holy Spirit is always there, God is always there, Jesus has always been there from the beginning, but it's like when ice melts and it becomes water, the ice is gone. And I think that's why that analogy doesn't, it doesn't like God has always been all three parts of the Godhead have always been. But again, these are things that we just won't. This is faith, right? Yeah, the assurance of things that are not seen. Like that is having faith and then just to accept the mysteries of it. But these questions are great. It's great to ask these questions and to dig in. Um, okay, silly question. This is a dumb question. Why is it why is it that in church services? Okay, rewind. This is where it came from. I was reading Kendrick a Bible story out of like a children's Bible, and we were reading on the Noah's Ark. He, I'm like, okay, what should we read? He was like, Oh, read about Noah. So I was reading about Noah Ark. Like, when's the last time you sat in a church service where we talked about Noah's Ark? I don't know. Like, we don't really so the the Sunday school Bible stories that you think about Noah's Ark being one of them, maybe another one being um I don't know in the beginning God created, right? We don't really why is it that the Sunday school Bible stories aren't really talked about in what you would consider grown-up services? I think we talk about David and Goliath a lot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But that was just like a random thought that I had. I'm like, why is that?
SPEAKER_03That's a good question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Because and then it makes me think like they assume you've heard it enough in the world.
SPEAKER_03Is it because it's like we've made it so common? Maybe. I feel like there has I feel like I've heard Billy preach on I could be wrong, but I feel like I've heard him preach on the definitely David and Goliath. Well, the end of Noah's Ark with when when they found maybe maybe just like the that portion, maybe not a whole scripture or excuse me, sermon on it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But the the way that God said he would never destroy the world with water again.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I feel like that comes up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it was very much a passing thought that I had. And I wonder if it's because oftentimes in like the context of Christian community, we just assume. We just assume that we all know these things, like as if it's basic knowledge, even with the Lord's Prayer, like as if we just assume. Because there's a lot of people, specifically in our church, that I've heard they have no church background.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So even in like Bible studies that we do, to not assume, like we've mentioned our friend Madison, she's like, What's the last supper?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like we should never assume that people just know. Praise God for people like Madison who just ask every question. Right.
SPEAKER_03I can't get enough of that.
SPEAKER_01Which is why I even like that we're doing like, is this a dumb question? Like, bring them all.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. The the best questions are the ones you start with. Is this a dumb question? And guess what? Tons of people are asking the same questions, but then we're all assuming it's a dumb question, so nobody asks, so it never gets answered. And then it never gets talked about.
SPEAKER_01And there are lots of things that just need to get talked about more. I had texted you randomly last week or a couple weeks ago. I don't even think I said hi. I think I just texted. How come people don't talk about the fact that Jesus was a virgin more?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up because I specifically did not reply with this because I wanted to talk about it on the podcast at some point. Great. Um, I feel like my household talked about it a lot. I feel like that was a constant reminder of like as a kid. I think, okay, I keep going back to my Catholic background and upbringing, but the clergy is all they're all celibate. Nuns and priests are all celibate. And the the whole cler deacons and what are they called? The ones that were red, I can't remember. But they're they're um celibate. And I think maybe that's why also there was just a lot of conversation about like don't ever have sex. That's good. Or don't ever get pregnant. I don't know. I don't know if it's good.
SPEAKER_01Well we can talk about well, the fact that it's like conversation, I think is great. I grew up in like such a different context in that way where I don't know, it's like we all know, like, for again, I'm assuming, you know, but for the most part, people that have been going to church for some time, we know Jesus wasn't married, he was a virgin. I mean, we all talk about Mary being a virgin when she had Jesus, like, but I'm like, it's not it really isn't talked about too much. And I think maybe I was thinking just the conversation about sex in general is like not talked about a ton. I don't think it's accurately talked about. There you go. That's a big thing.
SPEAKER_03I feel like it's either it's either not talked about or it was talked about in the way that I where it's like from mean girls where it's like it don't have sex because then you'll get pregnant and die. And then you grow up and you get married, and you're like, now what do I do? Because that's a sin, but I'm married, and this is now I have a husband and I'm supposed to worship God this way. You know, this is not a sin, but I have it's been embedded in my brain forever that it is a sin. Yeah. How do you rewire entangle that healthy way? Hopefully, children don't listen to this. Just don't have sex if you're a child.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, and adults too. And I think this is another seed that was planted because I don't know which episode it was, the re one of the recent ones when you were talking about how about just don't have sex unless you're married, because that's what the Bible says. Even that's not talked about. So here's a thought too. I was having all sitting on the couch talking to Jordan, and we're gonna go to Ocean Shores next week. And I just had the thought of like, I asked Jordan, um, what if when Kendrick's a teenager and we go on this family trip? Because it's been a tradition over the summer, the last three or four years, that when he's a teenager, one summer he's like, Mom or dad, can I bring a girl with us on this family trip? And he's a teenager. And so we just started talking about like, well, it depends on the kind of kid that he is. There's a bunch of different variables. If we have a suspicion that these kids are trying to do something they shouldn't be doing, she's not coming. Yeah. If just all around we trust them, sure, let's, you know, do we know this girl? All these things. But I was thinking about too, I'm like, is he gonna be like a teenage boy that we have to worry about this? Um, he's a boy, so we'll have to have conversations. But then also, I was talking with this is like maybe a year ago, uh someone that I know, it's my friend's niece, and she was basically saying that it feels impossible. She was struggling with lust. Um, she was dating a guy. Like, it feels impossible to not have sex with them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like, is this even possible? Like, is this a thing that people actually do? Of course, it's possible. Of course. And then I was thinking in our church community, for example, our pastor, they waited till they were married. And we know another friend. She, her husband is her first boyfriend.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And like I could think of other people off the top of my head, but why is it that this other girl that I was talking to, she's like, is this even possible? Like, she knows no one in her life that this that they've done that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, it it is very uncommon.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Very uncommon.
SPEAKER_01Um I think part of talking about it though, kind of shows like when you know when you see someone do something, it's like, oh, she can do that, I could do that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So like if you know someone that has been there before and has done it well, it kind of gives you hope.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like in outside of just our faith.
SPEAKER_03And really understanding the why behind it. And not like, I think I've I don't know why this keeps do I keep bringing this up? I don't know why this is something that we keep talking about. But like to it's not just a a rule, it's not just a law. There is a purpose for it, and it is for your best. And I think when you look at it as I can't and I'm not allowed to, your flesh is gonna be like Wow, that's a great way to put it. Did God say? It's gonna sound a lot like the way the serpent talked to Eve in the garden.
SPEAKER_01That's really great.
SPEAKER_03So why are you doing it? Also, having I think Did God say? Yeah, that's so great. Just I I am such an advocate to talk about it with kids because have the conversation, give them the why, let them know both sides of what's going on because it's the it's too uncomfortable, don't talk about it at all, or it's dirty, it's bad, it's a sin. If it's dirty and it's bad and it's a sin, then people do it, they sneak to do it because we're all still sinning anyway.
SPEAKER_01Um, I feel like I've said this before in the context of like my coaching. If someone is asking why about a certain part of the plan, I welcome that question because when you have a greater understanding of why, your likelihood of being compliant is a lot higher because then you understand why you have to do it. You see the benefits of the why.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so I think having conversation, discipleship, fellowship, all of that is really healthy because it does help keep you in line sometimes when you understand. But the other part is sometimes it just comes down to a holy fear and just being obedient, period, even if you don't understand. Which is why the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, you know? I added something to that.
SPEAKER_03Several friends, people I knew that I grew up with that um waited until they were married and also didn't live together. I I had a first marriage. Um but I lost my training thing. Oh, this is what I was gonna say. It was normal, it was also expected, and it would actually be gossiped about when people weren't doing that in that group. Not that the gossiping was not good, there was judgment and condemnation. But I think like the having the a strong community is such a big deal, there is because it wouldn't your friend's niece who's like, How is this even possible? I don't know anybody that does this, basically, right? But that and that's like fellowship with the people you want to be like, yeah, have the community with people that you want to be like.
SPEAKER_01That is so important. There is really something to surrounding yourself with people that urge you on into a healthy good direction, a godly way is so so so important. I cannot stress that enough.
SPEAKER_03That's like the iron sharpens iron, like your faith and like feeds my faith. It blesses me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know we have a friend that um trains with Jordan, and he was, I mean, kind of like confessing, really, like, hey, I've been having a hard time with this. Um, just like drinking more than he would like to, not really a problem, but acknowledges that it's probably more than he should. But it's because in the summer, like that's what he was surrounding himself with. It's probably people that that's their definition of having fun and what they do. And then you just kind of get loose and you you drift, and before you know it, you're doing all these things that you work so hard to not do for so long. But if you place yourself in a setting where like people aren't drinking, they're eating healthy, they're training right, they're training hard, it kind of makes you want to do that more.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I think it brings you back to like what is your, I think Bamana has said this, like what is your measuring stick? What's your yardstick? And if if it's ever another person, it's always gonna give you an excuse to sin. And we can do this in everything, in the big things, in the little things, whatever it is. If so-and-so is doing it, so it might be okay. I can wear that because that person's wearing it, and she does this, so that might that means it's it's okay. Or I can say these things or do these things or drink this much, or whatever it is. That is like if your measuring stick is the Holy Spirit, right? There is there's no good edge of scripture. It's yeah, the only good is God. Yeah, nobody is perfect outside of God. And if that's what you're measur you're measuring against, then that'll keep you in a different place. That'll keep you where you're supposed to be, versus, well, this person and that person. And then I think you can put yourselves in those situations where other people are doing things that you don't want to do or things that you have a personal conviction not to do, whether it be for health or spirituality, and it's less difficult.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's what that's I think that's how truth becomes subjective in culture in this world, in our fallen world, is when you put yourself in the center and truth is measured by you being in the middle of it, with like, okay, does this fit in my life? Does this make me comfortable?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But if God is at the center and there's something that you're being convicted to change it makes you uncomfortable, it doesn't matter it makes you uncomfortable because God's at the center, you know. But that's again, that's just the world we live in. That offends me, that makes me uncomfortable. So I don't that's hateful then, you know. Yeah, we can't to your point, what is your um measuring stick?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I heard somebody I it may have been Lisa Bevere or Christine Kane. I don't know. I could be wrong. But I heard somebody say recently that anxiety comes um from people pleasing. I see that. And that or when you are anxious it's because you are focused on people pleasing versus God pleasing. And even when you think about, you know, Jesus said the two most important commandments the first one being love your God above all else with all your heart, soul, and strength. And then the second being to love your neighbor as yourself. And I think we look horizontally often and think people, people, people, even in the way of like people who want to be a quote unquote good person, what can I do for people? How can I help people, which is a good thing, but the order is up and then to the side.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I would believe at this point and correct me, anybody can correct me if I'm wrong, that if you look up first and your eyes continuously go up, then the Lord will put them to the side and on the right person and at the right time and for the right things. That's really good. And then you're you're I I feel weird saying even like please the Lord because like how could we ever even please him? Like what could we do? But I know that our faith pleases him. So if we're looking up we have faith that's great. And then he'll say okay Cam, okay, all right now this is this is the person. I'm putting this person here this person go love this person. Go show them what it's like to love me.
SPEAKER_01That's so great. As you're talking I'm trying to remember something that I read in terms of because we're talking about people pleasing and when we do things unto the Lord versus um being concerned about what man thinks. And I was in Psalm 90 this week when it talks about let me just go there I love that you even touched on the people pleasing part.
SPEAKER_03So Psalm 90 I think it's the last verse Bible hack if you want to learn how to navigate your Bible read it more and then you'll know what books come before and after other books.
SPEAKER_01I think I was just studying verse 17 Psalm 9017 it says let the favor of the Lord our God be upon us and establish the work of our hands upon us yes establish the work of our hands and then I so we're talking about rabbit holes I think I was digging into even what favor means and what establish the work of our hands means hmm okay so what I'm doing here guys as I'm like reading this verse just so obviously you don't have video of us what I'll do a lot of times if there's a verse that stands out to me I will bounce between Bible hub and blue letter bible and Bible hub there's a tab when you so in the search bar you type the verse that you're wanting to dig into and there's a tab for commentary and for study. And so if I want just deeper insight on a specific verse that's what I'll do I'll even use the concordance and I'm just gonna read some of this I actually don't even know what train of thought I was going down but it's it's good. So I'm reading it yes establish the work of our hands. So in reference to Psalm 9017 it says it reminds us that fruitful labor is meant to reflect God's own creative work. We partner with him as stewards of his world um across references Genesis 215 and Ephesians 210 um gosh there what is that part it says commit your work to the Lord and your plans will be established as Proverbs 16 3 theologically this acknowledges God's sovereignty over human affairs and the need for his in his intervention to bring lasting value to human nature I don't know where that connection was what I was trying to the footnotes in the ESV study say favor or beauty.
SPEAKER_03God's own beauty is on display through his faithful servant the work of our hands is the work that God's people do in pursuit of their calling that's good.
SPEAKER_01I even like it says okay um the idea that true fulfillment and purpose and work come from aligning one's efforts with God's will a concept that finds its ultimate expression in the New Testament teaching of work as unto the Lord this plea can also be seen as a type of Christ who per who perfectly fulfilled the work given to him by the Father establishing the ultimate work of redemption for humanity. But okay so the part about true fulfillment and purpose and work comes from you aligning your efforts with God's will. I think that's what I was trying to get at with you talking about serving man versus serving God. It doesn't matter how hard you work but if your efforts are in alignment with God's will that's like where true fulfillment and purpose comes from if not it's just like this never-ending toiling of ways of the world nothing that'll satisfy or fill that void I got a good story.
SPEAKER_03Okay and I think this we can uh wrap up unless there's other things I don't want to drag us on but I'm gonna okay I'm gonna to protect identities for privacy I'm gonna call this person Jan. Okay. So Jan um is a believer somebody I know well and Jan had a job and called me and was talking to me about their job that they had been in for several months and they just they didn't love it um that they had missed their previous role. Jan missed her previous role so she she missed her previous role she wanted to go back to it she didn't love where she was right now and the perspective was just I don't know she was unhappy. This is a true story with just names and identities protected so um she had been reaching out to the previous employer about potentially coming back and they got back to her and said we actually have a spot come in interview we have new leadership so meet them and interview and we'll talk about you coming back. So she did and it went really well and they called her and said okay we want you to come back this is what we're offering you. Okay. And she's like okay uh that's significantly less than you were paying me before oh and they're like well because you know we've changed a lot of things since you've been gone like this is what the budget is this is what the band is we can't give you anymore so you you'd have to be okay with this so it was less than what she was getting making in that role previously but more than what she was making in the role she had currently but the role she had in and in currently she had a little bit more flexibility and she could work overtime so she could make um there's more earning potential even though the rate of pay was less so she wasn't sure what to do or where God wanted her and we talked about it and we prayed about it and ultimately she decided she was not going to go back to the other role to her previous job even though that's what she would wanted that she thought she would be happier there. I don't know exactly what the determining factor was to keep her from going back to that role but she decided not to go to it and continue with where she was and about two weeks after that they fired her. Her current employer fired her so she immediately calls the previous employer who didn't offer her enough money and said can I go back? Can I like can is that role still open can I come back and the role was filled oh no so she couldn't go back and she now was out of now she didn't have anything right uh a few weeks before she had two open two places that she could be and had the had to make this decision of like well I feel like I deserve to be making more but this place I get as comfortable you know there's all these things that took that she considered and then I I again I don't know why she ended up making the decision she did. But she ends up getting fired. The other role is filled she can't go back. Ugh so a couple months are going by and she maybe two months total went by but nothing no opportunities nothing's going on she doesn't know where she's gonna go okay she feels like she has to make huge big life changes oh no move out of state and I talked to her last week and they called this the previous employer that had that she wanted to go back to but wasn't going to pay her enough and then filled the position called her last week and said we've got a role for you come back come on yeah praise God for that praise God it took all of this happened in I think the whole thing from start to finish two and a half months maybe not so much time uh maybe but that is how quickly like if you want to be in the will of God you're gonna end up in the will of God and even if you make the wrong choice or you you know whatever it is that you think you've stepped out I really feel like this was divine and and I could have the divinity of it incorrect but there is I see God's hand in this. Yeah and I don't know if there was something that had to happen if it wasn't the right timing or if it was a steering back to the right place. I don't know but it's that's how quick that like look it's it's it's like the GPS if you turn left after the GPS tells you to turn right it doesn't turn off it just gives you the next direction.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it'll just reroute you God is so kind in that way I love that so much the number of times that has happened in my life where I've been I've made a wrong turn and God still will show up and present a new set of directions that gets me back onto the course onto the wool of our father that is so great. And would you say Jan during this time of like going back and forth in the two and a half months was seeing God's hand redirecting her or did it very much feel like a whirlwind of I can't say for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah I'm sure that she felt very out of control and uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah God is so good to even um forge something within us in our discomfort in that way I mean I think we could both personally speak on the number of times that God has taken us through seasons that felt very uncomfortable but when you came out on the other end you're like ah that is why this is what I need to get cut off of me or this is the fruit that was produced from getting exposed to these different elements. Yeah and I mean so many character refining moments that I've had in this last year. Um I know we both talk about like think I mean there's so many things we fall so short every single day. I'll say one thing um I know you said you were gonna wrap this up I just had this take your time I will say that I did not recognize in me. I know that I'm Tai Bay whatever not a surprise to people that know me but I didn't recognize in me like the level of control that I feel like I needed to have and I wouldn't even say that I needed to have I think just like would naturally come out of me because of my personality um but Jordan and I were talking one night and I thought this was like an interesting I don't know just example of someone that is controlling and me I I want to always follow things up to the best of my ability of like what would Jesus do? We've talked about on this podcast like can we bring that back the WWJ D what would Jesus do? I would actually love that we should bring it back. Yeah I'm gonna rock a bracelet that's I'm gonna get a tattoo. Yeah cross my chest um so Kendrick watches this show and it's this character the daughter is straight a student does everything really well she's she's the um the favorite child even if you want to call it that and the brother in this show is like kind of like the villain and just has bad boy tendencies and so she's the goody two shoes but um the parents on the show kept saying her the character's name is Phoebe kept saying how Phoebe is so controlling like she has to have things a certain way and so they and she's like denying it. And so they test her in different scenarios. And so in one scenario the dad has I could be getting this wrong but this is the gist of the story. This Jordan yeah if you're listening Jordan I'm nobody else knows. Um so an example the the dad has ice cream okay and so he's testing his daughter he has ice cream and he dumps a bunch of sprinkles on it like more than is necessary more than that is even tasteful and Phoebe looks at it and she starts removing the sprinkles off of his ice cream is that controlling and oh off of his ice cream off of his ice cream because that's weird it's not hers, right? And she starts removing the sprinkles off of his ice cream and anyone could objectively say like that is like way too much like are you putting ice cream on your sprinkles or sprinkles on your ice cream? Yeah but he's testing her right and sure enough she comes and inserts herself and takes sprinkles off his ice cream to show like how controlling she is and he's like this is my ice cream this is not yours. Why are you doing that? So in this case like Jordan is explaining this to me he was like that was such a perfect example right of just showing how someone has controlling tendencies but they're they think it's for the they think it's helpful for your good yeah right like this ice cream would taste a lot better if it just had this many sprinkles on it. But we flipped it and we're like okay in this scenario if Jesus was there and he saw you dump an unnecessary amount of sprinkles that would ruin your ice cream what would Jesus do? And the perspective was so interesting with what I thought in this hypothetical situation what Jesus would do and what he thought what Jesus would do. So okay I'm gonna ask you this then the same scenario got ice cream got a pile of sprinkles on there if Jesus was there what do you think he would do or say he would ask a question you're so this liar my girl I said the same thing what do you think he would say um I don't know I don't I don't know um something probably that had nothing to do with sprinkles but actually related to the sprinkles more of a parable maybe it a question of like I don't I don't know like when's the last time you had sprinkles yeah that's great I don't know I do really want them when the last time you had them because yeah um I was I had said if you had the sprinkles that I offered you you wouldn't ask for the sprinkles you don't even need that I'll give you living sprinkles I don't know but we're trying to work out like how would someone insert themselves because I'm thinking like what did Jordan say? Um he said that Jesus wouldn't even say anything and that he would allow this person basically to make the mistake and learn for themselves which I'm like that is a very high possibility. Yeah I could see that and then in my more type A personality I'm like to say something still I think that's like the right thing in my own mind right so I said the same thing. I said I think Jesus would ask him a question to cause him to reflect. Yeah exactly and in that reflection come to his own conclusion.
SPEAKER_03And then you have the choice to reflect or to even hear. Yeah because then it gives someone the opportunity to have that realization it really is an opportunity right but I'm like okay I I'm like this is so biased I'm like even in my what would Jesus do I'm putting my own bias in how I went through you know what's wild is I guarantee I know Frankie's listening to this and I'm gonna ask him when he gets back later I guarantee my husband would say the same thing. I guarantee and I think it's because we've talked about the names of God before and like you don't know that name unless you've experienced that right like El Roy doesn't have the same significance if you've never felt seen. You know and I think that we God designed us a specific way. Yeah I don't know that I will call myself type A. I think I'm type C because I turn it on and not turn it on and turn it off I just in particular about specifics which actually probably makes me type A. But neither here nor there God forgive me but um the way that we have experienced him could it be our bias? Yes. I'm I'm holding space for that also I see where you're going with that. But it could be the way that we experience it because I do watch how I I watch how God works with Frankie and it gives me wildly new perspective of God that I don't realize on my own.
SPEAKER_01I really like where you took that and I really agree because I mean at the end of the day our biases come from our own experiences right that's like what they're rooted in um and even in the way that I would hope like I would pray to God stop me in my steps so that I don't go too far.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I don't have to make that mistake. Yeah and so to your point and how we experience God even how we see him in our like we've talked about talking about the compound Hebrew names of God and even just uh characteristics of God. Like one of my favorite characteristics of Jesus is that he's our advocate so I'm like I know through my own personal experience like I need you Lord to advocate for me in certain scenarios. And so whether it be bias our own experience like that is why that's like one of my favorite ways to see him as him being my helper. Yeah you know but I it's I so at the end of it it was like a really silly conversation and example but I just loved it so much because it really one it revealed our own personalities it showed like how we see things but just like a fun way of I don't know like how do we see Jesus and like what do we think he would do and all you know oh that's so good. We should ask that question more often. Yeah yeah like in an even casual scenario of like okay hold on what do you think Jesus would do actually yeah in a way that even wouldn't even change like who he is to us but like in this case it could go either which way like I said he could have us do that or he could have us do this yeah case by case it's interesting I feel like some people have I'm not gonna say it I'm done yeah me too have no more thoughts for now we've jumped down uh enough rabbit holes for now it will continue does the here's a rabbit hole does the term or phrase rabbit hole come from Alice in Wonderland it must I don't know that it existed before that that is interesting because I wonder if Alice in Wonderland used that as inspiration for Alice in Wonderland look it up friends yeah do you think that other people other people must be like this it's not just you and I there has to be other people like this well according to Google the phrase down the rabbit hole comes from the famous 1865 Alice's Adventures What's the name of the author I'm forgetting.
SPEAKER_03Lewis Carroll. Lewis Carroll Yeah I think he wrote that book on a boat with two women I could be making that up that is my understanding or through the looking glass I don't know I want to know inside the mind of Lewis Carroll how this even came to be psychedelics. Yeah well if there's nothing new under the sun where did you get it from I actually think everything came from the Bible is there a reference of all that okay that's great you have the sprinkle side all right I am going to pray us out Lord Jesus thank you for your sense of humor Father thank you for your sense of humor that you have given to each of us so that we can laugh and have these types of conversations Lord I thank you that we love both Kim and I and other people love to study your word so deeply to really have this deep blond bond with you Lord and I pray that you give us continue to give us fresh revelation and show us who you are teach us more about who you are and your character not so that we can puff ourselves up Lord but so that we can love you and others more first Lord. I thank you that you still hold space for us to be silly Lord I thank you that you allow us to ask the dumb questions Father that there are no dumb questions when we are asking you Jesus thank you I just thank you for who you are and your divine design especially in Kimberly Lord I I thank you and praise you for Kimberly's divine design that it fits so well in our conversations and that I have so much fun with her. Father I ask that you continue to bless these conversations that you anoint the words that come out of our mouths and that you allow us to not lead anybody further away from you but maybe allow them to ask questions Lord allow them to come to you more allow them to um even just want to to hear about you further Father so I thank you for who you are Lord I pray for those that haven't met you yet I ask that you put um all of your believers in situations to share about you and to demonstrate what it is to be loved by a follower of Jesus in Jesus' name amen