Through It
Through It is a Christian podcast hosted by Ariana and Kimberly - two women who love Jesus and have been through it. Join them for real, faith-filled conversations on how to talk through it, walk through it, pray through it, and get through it.
Through It
Surrender Your Doubt
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Nothing is too big—or too small—to bring to the feet of Jesus. Even in moments of doubt, we can pray honestly: “Lord, we believe; help our unbelief.”
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I kind of want to talk about what we just talked about. Yeah. A little bit. We can talk about whatever you want. Yeah. Um, well, to catch everyone up, we're talking about sometimes we pray that we could be like there's certain qualities that we don't have, and that we ask God to give that to us. Um, one of them I feel like we both carry the capacity to be empathetic. But how you're saying it's like, man, Lord, can you make me more empathetic? And I say that in a way where like I even ask that like towards my husband sometimes. I'm like, I I don't expect you to understand exactly how I feel, but I would like at least to be affirmed in what I'm telling you. And I mean, that's a lot of that is just empathy, right? So um, you and I were just talking about well, some people carry certain gifts, like even encouraged and being encouraging could be very much a gift that is given to us from the Holy Spirit. And it's not to say that we're never encouraging, but there's like a supernatural ability that God gives us to do that in a different capacity.
SPEAKER_02Um, and I think everybody can think of a specific person in their life where you're like, well, that person's yeah, like anointed with that.
SPEAKER_03Right, right. And so, like, we're not what were recently just saying, like just so, like an example, being a small business owner, if it's like I want to help so and so get healthier, but it's like, man, I wish I could do that with everyone. But if I just gift free programs out to everyone, I wouldn't have a business anymore.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so instead of just being like, God, I wish I could just help everyone. Well, that would be unwise now. But to bless people that maybe God puts on my heart, like this specific person, yeah, do it for that specific person. So, in the way that we were just talking about, Jesus didn't heal every single sick person that he came across. He, like he says, I do what the father tells me to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I say what the father tells me to say. I don't say everything, every thought that comes across my mind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. The I just love that you brought that up when we were talking about the empathy about like Jesus didn't heal every single person. And it's it um is spelled out in when he heals the the paralyzed man at at the pool of Bethesda, that there was a masses of people. Yeah. And he walked by them to one person and he healed that one person. I don't think that I mean, the opposite of that is not like be so hyper-selective with who you're who you empathize towards or who you encourage, but like don't, especially for us, like that was Jesus. Like for us, we should not be trying to take on essentially the role of God.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_02If it wasn't, if it wasn't a task given to you, don't worry about like I don't lose sh sleep at night because I'm not like good at building houses because I don't build houses. Right.
SPEAKER_03That's not my profession. Yeah. And so in the same way in the spiritual, it's like, okay, what is God's, how has God designed you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then also, what is your assignment? Stop trying to do other people's assignments.
SPEAKER_02And don't sign yourself up. That, yes. What try stop trying to do other people's assignments? Don't don't appoint yourself for other people's roles, right? Or the role of the Holy Spirit. And I think a lot of people get this, get wrapped up in this one in terms of like salvation with people. Like they we have this heart to to evangelize or to um to share the gospel, which is beautiful and great, but then we take on all of it as if it's our job to do the saving. And it's not, it's spelled out blatantly in black and white that it's not we don't save anybody.
SPEAKER_03Right. And then and then you start operating outside of your capacity, and that's when you get burnt out.
SPEAKER_02And so and burnout leads to cynicism, right? And cynicism is not close to godliness, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and then also like getting burnt out just makes you really unhappy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then eventually, like your your guard goes down or your shield gets thinner.
SPEAKER_02Where's the fruit?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, different things will start to penetrate that shouldn't actually, if you are like rested, you know. But okay, well, welcome to Through It. Welcome. This is Kimberly.
SPEAKER_02This is Ariana.
SPEAKER_03I actually wanted to start. I really liked how last episode um you started with those questions, um, just some open-ended questions that kind of break the ice into the episode. So do you have questions? I not quite questions, but I wanted to um the other night at bedtime when we were praying with Kendrick. Um, usually we'll just like pray and go to bed. But a few days ago, we're like, okay, instead of just praying, let's just have tonight be like a night of like Thanksgiving and just our prayer will be all things that we're thankful for. So I thought I would ask you, what are two things that you're thankful for? And not like not to say these are small things, these are big things, but not like, oh, the breath in my lungs, but like specific what are two things you're thankful for.
SPEAKER_02Like tangible things?
SPEAKER_03Um, not necessarily tangible, but like specific scenarios or specific um just practical real life things.
SPEAKER_02So but the first thing that comes to mind is Delta. Um so thankful for Delta. I'm so thankful I was ever able to meet her and know her and be loved by her. Delta is my dog, if you didn't know that. Um and then the next thing that comes to mind is I'm I'm so glad that I hope this doesn't lead into a really long story. But I'm so thankful that the um the Lord took care of the mice in my addict. Oh, was it mice?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay, I I need more details. How did you find out that it was mice?
SPEAKER_02Um the trap went off and um I heard it and was home alone. And so I'll I'll I'll fill back up. Yeah, I'll fill everybody in. So I a couple weeks ago I was hearing things that I thought were in the walls, little things. And we have a lot of land around, and um, we're not in like um a development, so we've got a lot of woods around. Critters happen, and I was hearing things in what I thought was the walls that my husband did not hear. I'm getting itchy, and uh I just I was scratching as he said that. Um, so um I'm like, Frankie, you gotta take care of what whatever this is. It's it's causing me stress. I need you to take care of this. Um and he didn't hear anything, so I don't think it was as important to him. Important because I brought it up, but because he's not hearing it, he's not, it's not as like urgent. Um things happen, long story short, by the grace of God, uh a man shows up at my door a few days later and is like, Hey, do you guys need pest control services? And I was like, Perfect timing. Actually, I do. Um, so talked him through everything, walked him through everything, signed up for a year services, and he's like, Great, the technician will be out in an hour. Technician shows up, Jesus, not a coincidence. Yeah, she says, and um, I tell him what's going on, show him the attic, and our attic is large and full, so it's like you it could be more rooms up there. Um, and he goes up there and he comes down, he's like, I didn't see any. Well, first of all, he tells me, um, if it's rats or mice, this will get this will take care of them. And they guarantee the work, so it's it'll they'll be gone. But if it's anything bigger, it'll injure them, but it won't kill them. And I was like, Hey Seuss, how is there anything larger than a rat in my attic? How is that even possible? And he goes, Well, it could be like possums or raccoons, which really made me uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_03A whole raccoon up there would be crazy.
SPEAKER_02I yeah, where are you coming from? How did you get there?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, where he's like, I've been living here for five years.
SPEAKER_02I always have these like weird intrusive thoughts of those. You hear those stories of like it was a human living in somebody else's house that nobody knows. Like somebody's crawling out of the cabinets when I'm not here. But anyway, Jesus tells me I saw no signs of anything. Okay, that's fine in the attic. There's nothing there. He's like, I set traps, but there's nothing there. Okay, great, fine. The next day, uh, we wake up, Frankie goes to the gym, so of course I'm home alone. Just me and Delta, and I hear the trap go off. And I thought something like like the bookshelf fell over something. Oh, that loud. It was so loud. And like Delta jumps up and looks at me, and then it clicks, like, that must be a got him. Yeah, it must be something. So um I was talking to my parents about it, and they're like, you better go up there and get it because it's gonna start to stink. So that's when I'm like, all right, husband, you gotta go up to the attic.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Actually, I said, I'll call pest control and they'll come do it. But because now twice there has been me calling out that there's something in the walls, and everybody saying they don't hear it and they don't see it. I need you to make sure that it caught something so they don't come out here and say the trap never went off.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02So we went up there and looked at it. He said it was a teeny tiny mouse and it was just a obliterated.
SPEAKER_03Poor guy. Yeah. I and how many traps did they put up there? Did they tell you? Several. Okay. And you haven't heard it another one. Nope. It's crazy how much noise a little guy can make.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's gotta be more because after that I s I heard it and I thought, I I need proof. Yeah. Because nobody's believing me, and I'm starting to feel crazy. So I took a video of it, and um you and I was worried, like, we're probably not gonna be able to hear this, but you could hear it, and it's very loud. Yeah. And I sent it to my my dad and my brothers, and I'm like, look, guys, like there's proof, like there was something. Yeah, you didn't see like my like mice droppings up there? He said no. Wow. I haven't gone up there, but I don't know if Frankie did. Um, but I sent the video to my my dad, my brothers, and Frankie, and they all heard it. So I've been validated, I'm not hearing things. That's funny. And it's just, I think it's just it's little mice in the vents in the floor, actually.
SPEAKER_03So is pest control gonna come back out?
SPEAKER_02Like, can they do like a further, I don't know, they're coming out once a month for the next 12 months.
SPEAKER_03Okay, that's good. That's great. This is why. Oh I'm like, like mice don't really bother me, but I don't know why. Like the thought of like nuts. I'm glad you know what it is now.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I'm glad it's not rats. Yeah. The mice doesn't really bother me. It's inevitable. We're in the woods, yeah. Yeah, you know, and like they're cold, it's warm here. That it's gonna happen. Yeah, time of the year.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, if it I would be, I would feel totally differently had it been a rat.
SPEAKER_03All the mice just heard that on the podcast, and they've officially gotten an invite to come in. Go in.
SPEAKER_02She doesn't mind, guys. You're all gonna die anyways. Go ahead. Come on in. The scatterer has come up against you. Oh, that's the ramparts. Prepare for battle, prepare for battle.
SPEAKER_03These little mice getting a visual.
SPEAKER_02Um, okay.
SPEAKER_03What are two things you're thankful for? You know, I probably should have thought about this more, knowing that I was gonna ask you this, but okay, let's see. I'm really grateful that Kendrick goes to a Christian school. There's just like so much nonsense you hear out there. And not to say that there's no nonsense at Christian schools, but I'm I'm super grateful because before I had him, I didn't have like that. This was not my plan. Like, once I have a kid, I'm putting him in a private Christian school. It, God's grace, guys.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Had you thought about it?
SPEAKER_03No, like, okay, so I was struggling to find a place to take Kendrick when he was young. Like, he's kind of been in and out of different daycares. And a lot of the places that was near where we lived at the time, they all had waiting lists. Like, there's a couple places that called me like two years later. I'm like, are you kidding me? Oh my gosh. My kid's 12 now. Just kidding. No, but like he graduated. Yeah, he's not even in school anymore, guys. Um, so I I still don't actually know how I came across his school. It was on the internet somehow, but I'm like, I don't know. I've done so many searches. I don't know how I never missed this one. So one day, found his school. Um, and being a new mom at the time, I don't know if you want to even call it a new mom. He was like three, some three years in. He's my only kid. I thought I was early enrolling him. I'm like, okay, this great school.
SPEAKER_02You're kidding me.
SPEAKER_03Someone just rang the doorbell.
SPEAKER_02I'm not going.
SPEAKER_03Okay. I'm like, who is that? Do you have a answer the door?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, I do, but I can't see. Only Frankie can see who it is. I'll ask him.
SPEAKER_03Sorry. So yeah, I um I'm like, it's like June, maybe May or June or something like that. And I'm like, oh, school doesn't start till the fall. I'm early. Yes. Well, it turns out you actually have to enroll your student in like January for a fall start. That's I guess the norm. And so they thought I was crazy coming in thinking that there would be availability for my son, and school starts in like three to four months.
SPEAKER_02Where do people learn this though?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. And I had not learned it. So I learned it after the fact. But again, long story short, went to the school. He got in by God's grace, because I just happened to run into the preschool director in the hallway when I invited myself in. I also didn't know I needed to schedule a tour. I just invited myself in. I'm like, this is a public place, right? Let me just come in. Um, so yeah, grateful that he goes to Christian school and he's been there now for three years. He's in first grade. And then the other thing I'm grateful for is I would say not to be so cliche, but just like our church community.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You know, that's so good.
SPEAKER_03And the the like the diversity in our community. So kind of going off of what we're saying in the beginning of the podcast of like, this person has this gift, they're graced with this, this person has this, this is their design. Like, I'm so grateful that yes, we're united in faith in that way, but grateful that we're also different in so many different ways.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we all bring something else to the table, different perspectives. And that's why it's that's like it's like a potluck. Like you you all bring something different, and then you have a full meal together.
SPEAKER_03That's I love that analogy. Like, let's not all bring potato salad or chips. Yeah. We need different sides. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And somebody's got to make the protein.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Someone please bring the protein. I was listening to this other podcast and she was like, um, it was Jackie Hill Perry. She was talking about one of the first times that when her and Preston were dating, that she went to his cousin's house or somewhere, and she was like, it was the wildest thing. It was a cookout and there were no sides. It was just all protein. She's like, what kind of a cookout has no sides? I'm like, yeah. She was like, straight, it was just straight up meat.
SPEAKER_02Just meats. That's like my family would have something like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, which I'm okay with. She was like, someone brought chips eventually. And she was like, that's not a side though.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's what it would literally. That's well, that's gonna be the brewbaker barbecue in a couple weeks.
SPEAKER_03It's gonna be meat. I'm so excited for that to hear about it after that happens. Um, so I would say those are my two things. Um, I really need the diversity of the body because I have blind spots and I need someone to tell me my blind spots. Also, without I was gonna say without offending me. And I say that I almost didn't say it because I'm like, be unoffendable, Kim. Yeah, working on it, guys. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's I mean, that's part of lifelong sanctification being a lifelong process.
SPEAKER_03I know because I mean you could even say that, like, oh, I'm not offended, but it's coming out as an offense, even if you don't label it as an offense. Yeah, just because you're not calling it that doesn't mean that well, the fruit is showing this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You acting like you're offended.
SPEAKER_02I want to say, man, if uh I don't know. Let's dialogue through this. Tell me what you think. This is gonna be nearly this is impossible. When you think about a situation, okay to test your offense. Oh thinking about like what would Jesus do in this situation.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02And then I don't want to say compare. I guess comparing, I guess, to what how what you did or what you want to do.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, and then seeing, then asking yourself again if you're offended. I think we're, I mean, we're so Jesus is perfect, we're imperfect 100%. Um, but at least you're measuring yourself against the one thing to be measured against.
SPEAKER_03That's good.
SPEAKER_02And even though you won't do what exactly what he did, like I think it's so healthy to be self-reflective in that way.
SPEAKER_03And I think it's a good thing. Um I'm I I wonder if I'm sure we've talked about this on the podcast at some point, but like really the what would Jesus do. And I feel like the thing that I often think about is the fact that no one knew that Judas was the one that betrayed, that would betray.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, except for Jesus.
SPEAKER_03And yeah, and no one knew based off of how Jesus treated him.
SPEAKER_02He still washed his feet, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Knowing what he would do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That it's that'll convict me. Mm-hmm. And then on that same note though, okay, so Jesus didn't treat him as if that Judas that that he knew that Judas was gonna betray him. But however, he did treat him different in the sense that like he wasn't he was one of the disciples, but he wasn't in like the inner inner circle. And so I think it's unrealistic to like, you're my best friend, you're my best friend, you're my best friend. No, he had three closer disciples, and then he had the 12 disciples, and then he had everybody else.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you think he probably not, like he loved everyone, but yeah, he probably wasn't worried about like, does this seem fair? Does everybody feel like they're getting that's such a good question?
SPEAKER_03Because that's is this fair?
SPEAKER_02But then it's like that's not a question Jesus has to ask, right?
SPEAKER_03Because no, because then it's like, well, that's not your job. Yeah, that's but that's not the assignment, but that's not your role, but that's not your purpose.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so, like, how are you measuring what's fair? Yeah, I wonder, because I'm sure there are people that during that time and even today, it's like, why did so and so get healed? You know?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03Um, why did this happen to him, but not to him? Those are valid questions to ask. And I think questions I will never have the answers to, but all we know that I know that God is consistent. I know the same God that healed him is the same God that healed her, but is also the same God that had her weight. Yeah, and had her not weight.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, or the perceived illness, or the the illness was by our human standards, perceived not healed. Right? Like some people were healed, some people weren't. Both were for the glory of God.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And okay, I think this is a great segue to kind of what I wanted to talk about today is like because as you're saying that, it's like there's certain things that we uh You could sit with the Lord and ask questions to God and pray, but just because you don't have a full understanding, to not let that um suffocate your faith. You know, I in the last episode when we talked about different things that we wrestle with, I think it's healthy that we wrestle long as we're sitting at his feet and long as we're in the word. And um I so I was thinking about, I don't know what I was doing. It was in the morning, but I was thinking about just the the aspect of faith. And then I think about some people in my life that really have like a supernatural faith. And then there are certain situations in my life where I feel like I have supernatural faith, but there's other times where I'm like, I don't feel so faith-filled, filled about the specific thing. And so I I was thinking about the passage in Luke, I think it's in Luke 9. Let me turn to it. Okay, it's Mark 9, 24. So Jesus heals a boy with an unclean spirit. And I actually think it's in it's also in the Gospel of Luke. Okay, but I'm just gonna read a couple verses. I'm not gonna read the entire passage. I'll start here, verse 21. Jesus asked his father, so this father is when his son healed, how long has this been happening to him? And he said, from childhood 22, and has often cast him into the fire, into water to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us. So this father is asking Jesus for help. In verse 23, Jesus said to him, If you can, all things are possible for one who believes. Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, I believe, help my unbelief. That's really beautiful. That verse has always stood out to me, but I wanted to sit on this a little bit longer. So this father is confessing, I believe, but there is a part of him where he's recognizing, though, for some reason I still have unbelief. And that's what I need help in. There's like a gap in like what I know you to do. I've seen you do this before. This is why I'm asking you for help, Jesus. But like from there's a gap from me knowing what you can do, but applying it to my own situation. And so I need you to stand in that gap and help my unbelief.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's almost like when you see a miracle or you hear a testimony and you hear about um something miraculous that happened in someone's life, or even like a supernatural favor, and it's like you hear this person sharing their testimony, and it's like, wow, that is amazing. I believe that God did that. But can God do that for me too?
SPEAKER_02Do I believe that God would or could do it for me?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so the help my unbelief part. And so I'm I'm thinking about like it's so easy for us on this podcast, and just in life, and even in church context, to talk about how good God is, because we know that God is good. And it's so easy to sound like so uh optimistic and full of faith. But let's be honest, like, there's pockets of discouragement, there's pockets of unbelief.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so I guess it's when you are feeling discouraged or when you're feeling that ounce of unbelief, what do you do?
SPEAKER_02I think this it this is perfect to come after what we were talking about with like different gifting and the body having different members and um somebody being good at encouragement, somebody being good at evangelism, somebody or gifted with, you know, like anointed in that area. Because the answer to that question is relative to the person and their their gifting and the way that they receive. Because there's there is a way to say like it will it could resonate with people to know that like you're discouraged, but God is good. And it might not be the same good that you have the understanding of, but whatever he whatever he is doing is good. And we know that. And some people will be like, yeah, okay, and take that, and that could that could be encouraging. But then there's people that are like, well, this isn't good, or I can't, um, I because I don't feel good, or this thing happened to me, and not I don't think either person is better, holier, more faith-filled because people people have doubts, but there is um there's different forms of how to handle the unbelief. I think or or how to respond. How a person could a human could help encourage that unbelief.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or answer that question.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because we receive information differently.
SPEAKER_03And even like what follows the unbelief, like what follows the doubt, and so it's like when one person doubts or is discouraged, are they going to um let that take them down this whirlwind of more negative things, more negative thought patterns? Or in this case, this father is like, I believe help my unbelief. He's still taking his unbelief to Jesus. And then in that moment, Jesus meets him there. And so it's like, how do you respond afterward when you are in a place of discouragement? Are you gonna just continue to repeat that thought pattern over and over and over in your mind? Or is it in Philippians four? Let me see. In Philippians four, when it says, Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your request be made known to God. Um, and then it goes on to say in verse eight, what finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. And so, like, it's okay to be discouraged because we're human. But it's like, okay, now it's like take that thought, and how the scriptures say take that thought captive. Now it's apply these things, whatever is just, whatever is pure. Think about those things, or are you gonna let the negative just repeat itself over and over and over again? But I think where my thought was this morning, too, with this whole thing with faith. I was thinking like, so I looked up some verses that talks of faith and even some cross-references with that verse in Mark 9, 24. And I love in Hebrews that it says that Jesus is the perfecter of our faith. And then I I love that in um Ephesians 2, where it says that we're saved by grace through faith, and at the end it says it's not by your own doing. So I'm like, yes, you can position yourself, practically speaking. Like there's um spiritual disciplines and practices that you can apply to your day-to-day life so that you're positioned. Um, I mean, let's be honest, like if you're reading your Bible, going to church on Sundays, the chances of you hearing the gospel might be a little bit higher than if you're just like in the club getting high all the time and you're never sober.
SPEAKER_02You're not, you if you're not in the word and spending time with God, you don't have a relationship with him.
SPEAKER_03You don't even know how to recognize his voice.
SPEAKER_02How, yeah, how could you understand?
SPEAKER_03Unless there's a supernatural encounter, you know? And so it's like uh in regards to faith, I'm like, okay, even my faith is not my own. Like God gives me that faith. And so even when I recognize what I don't have in my lack, that I can even ask God to, hey, Lord, give me a double portion of faith. Right now, I don't believe in the specific thing, but I know that you're the one that can do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So like what you know is one thing, and because we're human and we're carnal, sometimes what we feel is different. So it's like, okay, Lord, I I all right, what is true? I know that you are my creator. I know that you are all knowing. Okay, I know you are all powerful, like you are God. I know you have all authority, but for some reason in this very specific thing in my life, I'm like actually very discouraged about this. Like, then ask God to increase your faith in that specific thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Or, I mean, there's so many things you can do in that situation, right? It's what it's it goes back to being rooted in knowing God's character, though. Like, if I know exactly what you just said, if I know that you are this and you can you're all knowing and you're you are love, um then like let me hear what you hear. Let me feel what you feel, let me see what you see because his his thoughts are not our thoughts. And even just asking for like a a glimmer of the perspective, because sometimes it doesn't the discouragement is like an unanswered prayer, maybe the prayer is not being answered because we don't there's different vantage points and just asking to like God let me hear what you hear and see what you see and feel what you feel to get a little bit more of the perspective, and it it it may not look like oh the prayer's answered now, or oh, just wait, it's coming, just just hang out a little bit. If the prayer may the way you want that prayer to be answered may never be answered that way, yeah, but there are like there's a reason.
SPEAKER_03Even that wrestle could be God's way of um refining your faith. Exactly, you know, like I had a moment this week in the morning and in uh just during my devotional time, and I was like kind of getting frustrated, and then I had this thought of like, well, if I'm gonna be frustrated, I might as well be frustrated in the secret place, you know, like this is the place to do it. So just let that be, at least I'm here, you know? And then for those of you too, where it's like, because I know I've had times where I've like observed someone walk out their faith, and I'm like, wow, she's so full of faith. I wish I had that. But then even on the flip side, it's like, um if you don't, for those of you that are listening, don't feel discouraged if you're like even upset at yourself for not having more faith.
SPEAKER_02Like it's not I don't think it is sinful to feel like you are lacking in of faith, maybe even in general, or to doubt, or to question, or to have questions. Um it I think that that's part of like what we were talking about in the last episode was like what you wrestle with. God is God can handle it. Yeah, God can handle what you're feeling, God can handle your unbelief, your discouragement, your doubt, your questions. He just wants you to to go to him about it in um Matthew 11 in verse one. I'll start in verse one. When Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in their set in their cities. Verse 2 Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another? So and then I'll keep going. So and Jesus answered, Go and tell John what you hear and see. The blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear. The dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me. So John the Baptist, who was the forerunner for Jesus, who was so connected and rooted with his purpose and plan that when he was in utero, and Jesus was also in utero, that he could feel his presence and leapt in his mother's stomach. The one who said, Behold, the Lamb of God, the one who takes away the sins of the world, still said, because he was in he was in a prison and he was about to die, and he still said, Are you actually him? Are you are you really the one, or should we keep looking? And um Jesus didn't get mad at him. He just said, Here, go tell him what you see.
SPEAKER_03Go tell him as a reminder, and we all need reminding.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And don't this is where, like, if you build your house on the rock, the firm foundation, right? Because if your house is on wobbly ground or your foundation is easily cracked, things can weasel their way in there. And that thought of my prayers aren't being answered. I don't know if God loves me, or God won't do this for me, or I'm just so discouraged, I don't even believe that this is possible. Um, what is the next thought?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is the next thought exactly what you're saying? Is it feeding the fire of that? Yeah. Is it going to tell you, like, oh yeah, you're right, and affirm that? Or does the next thought affirm God's character and what you know about God?
SPEAKER_03And I love this example that you shared in Matthew 11 because John the Baptist isn't like complaining to like the prison guard. He actually takes his word straight to Jesus.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like he takes it straight back to Jesus, even in his like doubt. And then Jesus is so good that he like reminds him. And so it's like this this man, John, that lived his entire life consecrated to the Lord, and um did the wildest things for the Lord, at the end, is like, well, are you actually what his whole life was dedicated to? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then he's like, And he has a style.
SPEAKER_03And so again, encouraging people that maybe feel like that your faith isn't as where you want it to be or isn't as like filled and full as you want it to be. One, take it straight to Jesus, like take it straight to God. And he's so kind that he will remind you. And that might come in different ways. But like as I've been told, if you look for the fingerprints of God in your life, like you will find it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like you will definitely find it. And so don't hinge your faith on like your own willpower. Don't try to white knuckle your way through faith. Continue to ask questions, continue to be in the word, continue like, even if you're like, I don't even hear the voice of God. Well, like, newsflash, guys, the entire book here called the Bible is all the words of God.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So you could hear from it by actually just reading. You could hear from God from reading the Bible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I'll even affirm that like a lot of times when I hear from from God, I feel like it's while I'm reading. And so um, there's another verse that says, um, faith comes from hearing the word. I forget where what the address is in the Bible. But so, like, even if you feel like I wish I had more faith, just continue to read more. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or just read it in general. I think with um, I had a conversation this week about somebody who was having a conversation with somebody who is um, you couldn't even say a new believer, but somebody who is questioning um is open and has lived a life very, very, very in the world. Um, and proclaimed that they did not believe in the existence of God at all. And things have started to change in this person's life, and and now they've started to say things like, I feel like the Lord is calling me, I feel like God is calling me. And they're they're still wrestling through feeling like the way that their life has been up to this point is not accepted, or that God feels a certain way, or whatever it is. And the person who would come to me asking for they were asking for like scriptural proof of things, but I was like, why I would just tell this person, like, if you have questions, sit down, open the Bible at page one and just call out to God. Like, you don't even have to have any sort of belief at that moment, even if you're like, I don't even know if you're there, I don't even know if you're real, I don't even know if you can hear me. Like, what do you have to lose? And then just start reading and see what happens. Because it's there's no way he doesn't talk to you, you're not changed, and your questions aren't answered.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's not all gonna happen in five minutes, it's not gonna happen the way you think or perceive. I think I can stand pretty firm on saying that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But if that's really all it takes. Like you I you don't need to go into like deep apologetics with everybody all the time. It doesn't have to be logic. That's really good. It just has to be like you like we have this book. It's all here. We don't have to start like, you don't have to set up some sort of weird ritual to hear the audible voice from God or have the Holy Spirit come down in the form of a dove, right?
SPEAKER_03Right. And and stop trying to even box in the way that you think the answer will look. Um, I saw this really cute post on social media, and this mom, I don't I don't even follow her. I don't know how things come up on my feed sometimes. I'm like, do I follow you? I don't. Why are you here? But this was great. This mom posted this thing. She has three kids, they went fishing, and um, no one's catching fish. And one of the kids prayed for a fish and threw his line back out and he caught two fish. And so the other two kids are like, oh, Henry, I don't know if that's his name. Henry prayed and got two fish. And so the other kids prayed too throughout their line, didn't catch any fish. And so now you have one kid that's super just like encouraged that his prayer was answered. And then you have these other two kids where it's like, man, their faith kind of diminished in that moment because it's like, God, why did you answer his prayer and you didn't answer my prayer? And so the family leaves, they're done fishing, they start walking back home or to their car, whatever. And then um, there's a guy that comes along, this older gentleman, and he has like a bucket of fish that he caught. And he had so much fish that he doesn't know what to do with all of it. And so he wants to give some away. And so he asked the other two kids that didn't catch fish, who prayed for fish, if they each wanted a couple of fish.
SPEAKER_02That is that that is it.
SPEAKER_03Isn't that so cool? And so it their prayers got answered, but it just got answered in a way that they did not expect and not in the timing that they expected.
SPEAKER_02Man, I was waiting for you to say something like they got back to their car and they had fish and chips waiting for them, or there was even just like a fish. Yeah. Because that's that is how that is how God works. Like we normalize how the Lord shows up in our lives every single day because we want it to fit into our brain and it doesn't, it doesn't fit into our brain.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Stop looking for it the way that you want to look for it. That is going back to like surrender and be still.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And once you're still, all the things, it's like when you go hiking and all you look at, you're just looking down the whole time because you don't want to trip on anything. But the moment you stomp and you look up and you just notice the nature and God's creation all around you, like, wow, this is all around me. And I didn't know because I was just looking down at the dirt this whole time, trying not to fall. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. If you just have a moment of be still to look around, again, you will find the fingerprints of God like all around you, all around you, even if it's not spelled out in the way that you want it to be or you expect it to be. Um, I read this cool passage. I've been, I think I said this last time. I've been rereading Exodus and I've been just taking my time reading it. But in Exodus, in chapter two, when um let me go here. So in chapter two, it's like the birth of Moses, and then um, of course, like Pharaoh's Pharaoh's trying to kill all the Hebrew boys. He commands them, um, the midwives to Throw all the Hebrew boys into the Nile. Um, of course, that doesn't happen to Moses. His mom, you know, makes weaves this basket and puts baby Moses into the Nile. And then Pharaoh's daughter just happens to see Moses there. And um Moses gets drawn out. And I'm gonna read this little summary because it was so good. Let me see. It's all these little what some people might call coincidences. So it says, Pharaoh's daughter happens to come down to the river that morning. She happens to spot him in the reeds. Miriam happens to be standing close enough to speak up. The woman she fetches to nurse the baby happens to be his own mother, now who gets paid by Pharaoh's household to raise her own son. And so not one of those moments is like this crazy miracle. It's all these little happenstances that just it just happened to be this. It just happened to be this. And in this entire passage passage in this part of Exodus 2, God is not written out in these verses. So you don't see the name of God written out in this passage. However, you see the presence and the hand of God throughout the happenings of all of it. And so it makes me wonder like, how much of our life do we not see, like, do not hear an audible voice of God or this huge miracle, or like I prayed for this very specific thing, but that specific thing doesn't happen. But surrounding that specific thing, there's all these little moments where it's like, man, God's hand is on it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But maybe you don't see it because again, you're looking down at the ground where you're walking and you're not taking a moment to recognize all of God's creation all around you.
SPEAKER_02Well, you're trying to make it fit into your brain.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You're trying to hold um human-made ideas. You're trying to hold uh like something that God has done supernaturally to a human-made idea or standard. And it's it's like it's if God is the ocean and our brain is a a soda can, like it's not all gonna fit.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_02It's not all gonna fit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But when you are, I think just maybe we've talked about this a lot more that like um or on the podcast even. The more you the more time you spend with God, the more you see God. And it's not because he's around you more. He's he doesn't change. He's all he remains the same. He is, he was, yeah, all the same. But it's it's that you are like um acknowledging of it more.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you those things have been happening for you from I don't know, since birth, maybe. I don't know. But you didn't have the you didn't have the knowledge of God, or you didn't have the eyes or even the heart posture to like let it in.
SPEAKER_03To recognize it as God. It reminds me of in the start of this episode talking about pest control. Yeah, it's like, okay, you had this issue with hearing something in the attic, and then sure enough, pest control just happens to knock on your door.
SPEAKER_02Literally just shows up at my door.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like we didn't, and somebody would say, Well, like, did you call somebody for information? And then somebody sold your information. We didn't.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There is there is no, there's no logic.
SPEAKER_03You're choosing to see God in that, and then even a further detail that some people could think is silly, but it's like, okay, the guy's name was Jesus, his name was Jesus. Like, okay, now you're just like, it's not that deep, guys. It's not that, but it is no, we're choosing to see God in it because truly God's hand is really because I know the smallest detail of it.
SPEAKER_02It is, because I know his sovereignty and his faithfulness. Yeah. So of course what are you telling me? Like, you can't tell me anything different. Of course, of course, he showed up at my door to take care of this thing for me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Of course he did because that's who he is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. The number of times, too, where I have had people that I know say, Hey, this happened. This feels like God, or it's like, I feel like God's talking to me. And I'm like, uh, yeah, yeah, he is. But it's one thing to confess it and to like maybe point it out. And it's another thing to like really turn towards him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It reminds me of an Exodus where um the magicians are trying to match the plagues basically, and it's the flies, they can't, I think it's the flies where the magicians try to do it and they can't do it, and then they say, This is the finger of God in this.
SPEAKER_02I think it's the frogs.
SPEAKER_03Is it's the frogs?
SPEAKER_02When the frogs die, then everything starts. I think everybody gets miserable because it's so smelly and there's frogs everywhere. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so like the magicians are like, this is the finger of God in this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03However, they continue to deny him deny.
SPEAKER_02They yes. That's how like, I don't know, thick scrolled we are as humans. Where we're like, oh, this has to be God because I can't figure it out. But then a little while later, be like, nah. I know I don't feel like it today.
SPEAKER_03And that's like where, like, you know, we talk about the fear of the Lord. It's like when you don't have, okay, you literally just said, This is probably God. But then this is where oftentimes, so like when we're reading and we're learning about God, this is where a lot of times where knowledge does help you gain more understanding. So it's like, even if the magicians are like, This is God, but it's like if they had the knowing of who he was and all that he can do, then maybe they would have a deeper understanding of like, okay, you guys are really gonna receive the wrath of God. It's like saying that it's God in your soul continuing to harden your heart and turn away. Um, but there's so many things, it's like it's never just this one thing. Because we're not like, okay, you need you need to seek knowledge and just know all this head knowledge. No, it's also a lot of faith, you know, just the substance of things not seen.
SPEAKER_02Hi, Delta. You okay? Probably. I'm I honestly don't even care. Just go. If you need to go, yeah, I'm just wanting to be happy and healthy. I don't care where it is. I already gotta clean the house up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um something else that it I don't have a perfect like thought to thought, but you've been you've said a couple things and it keeps this thought keeps coming back to my head of um also like don't don't hinge your faith on the actions or faith of other humans because human beings are fallible and will let you down.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you can't be surprised when another human being lets you down, and you also can't put your faith in another human being. This is what happens with like mega mega church pastors or pastors in general, they get they get held to this high standard, and not that they shouldn't have, I mean, if they are preaching the word of God to people, there should be a s a standard. But if you put your faith in that pastor, and then that pastor gets caught cheating on his wife or doing something, you know, just that goes against all of his teachings, then you can start to question, like, well, if he can't do it, yeah, well, then is it real? Yeah. Well then, well, if he can't do it, who can I trust? Yeah. And there's there's a lot of like downstream impacts from that also. But if if you can recognize and realize that like your faith isn't in that pastor, that pastor isn't even your leader. Right. And he has a he has a gifting. And also that gifting doesn't it doesn't go away because he sins, right? Because if he's if he's rooted and he has the gifting when he is behind the pulpit and on the stage, it's not even really him that's doing it, it's the Holy Spirit, right? Because it's a gift of the Holy Spirit, right? So that you can, I don't want to say separate them from that, but we're not giving glory to the vessel. Yeah, it is just a it's like a speaker, yeah. Right? When the speaker is playing music, we're not like, oh my gosh, this speaker makes the most beautiful music. No, it's a it's the music that is coming through the speaker. Yeah, yeah, the musician. Yeah. So if you don't hinge your faith on other humans, they will let you down.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I know that can be also discouraging for people that other, but that's the truth. Like, don't put people to standards that they can't live up to. Don't you don't go tell somebody, like, I'm not gonna go tell Delta go run a horse race down at Emerald Dawns and then get mad when she loses. She's a dog, not a horse.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, that's a great example. And I think that's also why it's at the same time, it's important to make sure when people don't have the wisdom to say everything that you just said, Ari, um, with discerning, like, okay, well, she's not a horse, she's a dog, you know. Some people will really be upset, like, why didn't she win the race? You know? Um, this is why, as Christians, it's important that you remember who you are representing and that we are called to be ambassadors for Christ and that we have to do our best to represent him well. But uh when we do make mistakes, because we will make mistakes and we make mistakes all the time, um that we don't to your point with the pastor thing that it's like okay, I recognize that Kim's just a human. Yeah, and although she's trying to represent Christ well, that she's still human. That you lead with grace, maybe lead with grace and also hold grace for others. But yeah, I I want to say as kind of a way to wrap it up, in in regards to just faith and to be encouraged to recognize that we are human. Um, we're God still calls us higher though. But doubt, it's never denied. Like we will have doubts in this lifetime, but it comes down to surrendering even your doubt. So again, going back to the Mark 9 passage, it's I believe but help my unbelief. He surrenders his unbelief to Jesus and to trust that God will meet you there.
SPEAKER_02And will show you or give you new eyes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes it's not another sign, right? Sometimes it's a little bit of the the uh removing of the flesh from your heart, a changing of the heart, a new set of eyes, removing the scales. It's not like it's not Gideon out throwing the like animal pelt waiting for do. Like, God give me a sign to prove to me, right? Like it's don't sometimes there are miracles and there are testimonies that act as signs, but sometimes God's just gonna work something else in you.
SPEAKER_03I love that you said that. Did we talk about this last episode? Because I know I talked about a Bible study about signs in Matthew 12 when basically the Pharisees are asking to see another sign, but it's like they've already seen like a plethora of signs and they're still choosing to not believe. Um, I had wrote one day in my journal that sometimes God will position us not to see another sign, but he will position us where all we have is him. And so here's your sign. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's not, it's definitely not about seeing another sign. So even if you're like, God show me, it's like, okay, you're looking for a sign. But sometimes you just need to just cling on to just him, like be in the word and prayer, even if you are not seeing any maybe movement outwardly, but just continue to surrender. That's faith.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And the the um for the anybody new to faith, anybody questioning, even if you're not new and you have questions or or unbelief that like um we're not on God's on our timeline. Right? God is outside of time, right? And don't if you open up the Bible and you're like, all right, I'm ready to hear from you, and then you're like, well, I just read a chapter, two chapters, all of the gospels, the whole Bible, and I didn't hear anything. Like, you're still things are still different. You have still changed. You haven't seen it or recognized it yet.
SPEAKER_03And then you just do it again. Do it again, and then do it again. Again, that is faith. Continuing to do it and just believing in that way.
SPEAKER_02There is still like a cleaning that happens. You don't only get in the shower on the days that you've rolled around in the mud. Right. Right. You don't have to, you don't wait until you look like you can see dirt on yourself before you bathe. Right. You you bathe every day or every other day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's a process and it's worth it. And so if we could just, I pray that this conversation. If you're someone where you're unsure of your faith, or if you can't answer the question of, I know if I die today, I'll go to heaven. I really pray that. I mean, for one, pray for yourself, you know. God hears you.
SPEAKER_02People need to hear that. Yeah. Because I think sometimes people feel badly about praying for themselves.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's a lie from the enemy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Pray for yourself. Ask God to give you a double portion of faith. Ask God to help your unbelief. Like surrender your unbelief to Jesus. And practically speaking, if you don't know where to start in the Bible, I mean, just start in Genesis, you know, just start somewhere, but taking that step forward, that is also faith. Like faith looks different in different people.
SPEAKER_02And in different seasons.
SPEAKER_03And in different seasons and different scenarios. Um, and even if there is not an overnight change, you just you keep applying the word, you keep praying. It doesn't have to be fancy. I never want this podcast to also be like, man, it's just like all Christianese. I really want the most like the people in the back row, metaphorically speaking, to be able to understand um what we're saying. Cause at the end of the day, there's this guy, someone shared this profile with me. He was an unbeliever and he was gonna fake his way through faith and just do all things that Christians do until he believes or until he doesn't. And so he did that. I don't know for how long. And if you want to say, like he fell into faith, he was like, I don't know, I guess Christians say this prayer. I guess the word says, love your neighbor, and he just started doing things that he knew, and like slowly his heart started to change. And I thought that was really cool.
SPEAKER_02It's so cool. It's it's like our generation's Lee Stroeble from A Case for Christ, yeah, who like evidences his way into believing and it's it's just it's so perfect. It's so perfect because I think a lot of people, like Lee Strobel specifically, like are more um it's a different part of the body, and they need they need to understand and see things in a different way. A little more heady, yeah. And um there it's all roads lead to Jesus. It it doesn't matter like what rabbit hole you fall down at the end of it, is all is all Jesus, and some people need to evidence their way into it, like like Lee Strobel or like this man, where he was just going to cosplay essentially as a Christian and then uh oh he didn't realize it that he was being like spiritually washed clean, yeah, and now he's different.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And and then there's people that act like that they are good and they're not. So that's I think really important to mention is like we're not saying like just completely fake it. I'm not telling you to be hypocritical, but like be honest with exactly where you are. If you're like, I've been going to church every Sunday and I just feel X, Y, and Z, I'm struggling with this. Like, just be honest, even with God, to exactly where you are.
SPEAKER_02It's the woman at the well being honest about she doesn't have a husband. She's had five. It's the woman with the issue of blood being honest and saying, it was me. I touched you, the unclean woman in this crowd. Yeah, like these things, all the caveat is God gives you a space to, hey, be honest with me because I already know it anyway. It's Adam and Eve in the garden and God saying, Where are you? Adam, where are you? God already knows the answer and he's giving you a space to be honest with him, not because he wants you to tell on yourself, but because he wants the intimacy, that bond that only comes from emotional or spiritual nakedness.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's great. I think that's a great note to end it on. So just surrender your doubts. Stop trying to hide it, don't deny it. It will happen. But the truth is, God will meet you there in his time. His timing is perfect. He's not slow to fulfill his promises. Um, and he is slow to anger. He's slow to anger. He's also not in a rush, you know. But okay, I'm gonna pray us out. All right. Thank you, Father.
unknownThank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Jesus. We thank you, Lord. We thank you that you are the one in charge. We thank you, Father, that um we belong to you, that you cover us, that you are a creator. You have all authority and dominion over us, Lord, that we belong to you. I ask you, Lord, that you can continue to teach us how to walk at your pace, that when we pray for things, Lord, that even we are not in a hurry, Father God, that we want what you want for us in your appointed perfect timing, Father. I pray, Lord, that you would quicken our spirits, but at the same time give us a long-suffering spirit, Lord, where we can sit with you, Father. I ask you, Holy Spirit, that you would give us the wisdom to be urgent with matters that are important, but also to learn how to linger in your presence, Father, that we want to be with you, Lord. Um, I pray, Lord, that you would bless the listeners, that you would help our unbelief. We ask you right now for a double portion of faith, Lord. I ask you, Father God, that even in our lack of understanding, Lord, that we will still choose to believe and that we would cling onto the truth, Jesus, that you are the way, the truth, and the life, Lord. And so I ask you, Father, that you would empower us to walk in a way where we can be um righteous ambassadors for Christ, that we can be a reflection of you, that your light would shine through us, not because of our own doing, but because we just sit with you long enough, Father God. And so I just lift up every person that's listening, Lord. I ask you, Lord, that you would meet them exactly where they are, that they may have clarity, that they may have patience, and that their hearts would just grow on fire for you, Jesus. And so we just lift up your name in your matchless, majestic name we pray in Jesus' name. Amen.
SPEAKER_02Amen. Yes, Lord.