Through It
Through It is a Christian podcast hosted by Ariana and Kimberly - two women who love Jesus and have been through it. Join them for real, faith-filled conversations on how to talk through it, walk through it, pray through it, and get through it.
Through It
Real Life Things
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Ever have a random question and then forget to ask anyone? Nothing deep—just something you wonder about for a minute before moving on with your day. This week, Ariana + Kimberly bring a few of those questions to the conversation and talk through some Real Life Things.
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There's so many things, okay. Just talking about marketing and how, like, you know, just the food companies and like what they do to profit more. I read this thing where um I don't know what year she had said, maybe the 70s, maybe even earlier, but when um fat-free foods became such a a trending thing. And so when you take the fat out of it, it takes the flavor away from it. So, what they do to make something fat-free to be more palatable, what do they do? They put more sugar and fillers in it to make it taste good. So now you're eating these things that are quote unquote fat-free, but you're consuming high sugar. So, like the irony of now you're eating foods that are labeled as fat-free that are actually making you gain more weight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then in turn, you're wanting to buy more fat-free things because now you think that's uh gonna help you in your diet. Yeah. And so it's just super slick cyclical.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or cyclical or just get more sick. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Fat-free, sugar-free, it doesn't mean that it's better. And it's such a bodybuilder thing, right? Like you can't consume the sugar, but it's you're they're replacing it with something else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Chemicals.
SPEAKER_00And that, you know, that um consuming fat is bad for you and when it's actually necessary. So not only now are you gaining more weight eating these fat-free things, but also now you're hungrier because now you don't have the fat to help you become more satiated.
SPEAKER_01But now your digestion.
SPEAKER_00In your digestion, but now you're also missing certain foods that are conducive to support your hormones, which make you healthier. And so we're just like getting sicker eating these fat-free things.
SPEAKER_01Jesus, come.
SPEAKER_00I know. I feel like what's been convicting me too, with just like eating healthier, not so much of like, okay, I want to look this way or or um lose X amount of pounds or you know, whatever. But just like, God, can we this vessel that you've given us here on earth, can we even steward our bodies well?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if this is wrong or superficial for me to say, hmm. Um well, I'm gonna say it. I mean sometimes I don't say things, but I'm like, okay, Lord, well, I'm thinking it. So it's kind of the same thing. Maybe not. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01It was me in the last episode we recorded. I said things I probably think not.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. Um, so when we went to go watch the movie Daniel, yeah, highly recommend you guys if you have not seen it, Daniel in the Fiery Furnace. Um, and it was perfect because it was an hour and a half long. It wasn't like a three-hour movie where I was like squirming in my seat. But it was really beautiful because we were watching this movie, and there is, it's like a faith-filled room. Like people are there that love Jesus, right? Yeah. But I'm like, gosh, it's just so odd. We're like watching this movie. It's from the story out of the Bible, and like how gluttonous everything is.
SPEAKER_01We're all eating processed foods and high sugars. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And like, I don't know if you notice. This is the part where I was like, maybe I shouldn't say, but like the people in front of us, I'm like, man, that's a lot. Oh, I didn't notice. And I was like, but you love the Lord. I'm like, I don't know, these are like the subtle sins.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, okay, let's make sure that um we are not getting drunk every weekend. Like, let's make sure that um I don't know, we go to church every Sunday and do these like easy check boxes, you know, that are like very external and obvious. But then like these subtle things, I'm like, gosh, Lord, like, and this is like for myself too, because I have my moments too, where I'm like, I just, Lord, can we just like steward these even seemingly small things well? Because they're not small.
SPEAKER_01That I mean, you said it though, stewarding our body and stewarding our health. Like it's we the Holy Spirit dwells inside of us. Lord has changed addresses and now he is here with us. Like, do we not want to take care of it that way?
SPEAKER_00But also, like you think about it too, because it's not so much of like, oh, look at this overweight person. I'm not saying that again to be like superficial and shallow in any way. But here's the reality: like, when you are not healthy, you don't feel good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then when you don't feel good, there's lots of things that you know you should do that you don't want to do because you don't feel good.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And then it kind of keeps you from moving forward in a way where like you're operating in like your your fullest.
SPEAKER_01I mean, there's definitely like similarities and parallels to even like drug addiction, uh-huh. Right. To like um being unhealthy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because it, you know, drug addiction is maybe more um obvious because it can kind of it derails your life.
SPEAKER_00You know, there are you have like illegal huge consequences, right?
SPEAKER_01And it's illegal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but like there are things like heart disease and diabetes and other ways that, you know, you're not gonna go to jail for consuming a certain amount of sugar, but it is not stewarding your temple.
SPEAKER_00Because you know what it does. I heard a really interesting phrase. Um, so we have a metabolic threshold, right? So if you like chronically diet, then that metabolic threshold, it also lowers. So now if you eat a normal amount, you just gain weight, right? And so you also have just like whatever your like um your total daily energy expenditure. Like, okay, you eat this much, you can maintain your weight. If you go over, you gain weight, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, same thing with your dopamine. So, we live in this world. So, it's called, and so we have like insulin resistance is kind of what I was referring to, right? We also have dopamine resistance. I just thought that was like such an interesting phrase that's probably more common now. We just don't have language for it. But like in this world where you get instant gratification, dopamine hit. Even you eat a dessert, dopamine hit, and yes, insulin, right? So we have all these little things, social media, these little short clips that we see. It's like, oh wow, that was funny. Oh, wow, that was interesting. Oh, wow, I learned something, dopamine, dopamine. So now we're inundated in a world that is constantly giving us dopamine hits. So now we have dopamine resistance because now, in order to feel good, here's the bar where my dopamine was, but now we have so much of it, that threshold has risen. So now to get that same level of feel good, which is the dopamine, it's the feel-good hormone, right? You have to have that much more. And so now, in maybe let's say like 50 years ago, where if you consumed X amount, I feel like like, is this why movies are longer now, too? I don't know. And like movies are more like um grandiose, even with like special effects, because we need more in order to feel good in order to like um basically get that same response.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's I heard an interesting statistic on this.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01Um, I can't remember what podcast I was listening to, but there was this man who had created this technology for your phone um to keep you from like over-scrolling and to keep you your eyes clean. Wow. What you're what you're consuming. It's like an an app. Yes. Yeah. And he was saying that I don't know how dopamine is measured, if it's like milligrams or whatever.
SPEAKER_00I actually have no idea.
SPEAKER_01Whatever the measurement of it is. But he was saying that the amount of dopamine that a man receives from watching pornography is 40 times greater than the amount of dopamine that man receives from genuine physical intimacy from their partner.
SPEAKER_00Holy moly, talk about perversion.
SPEAKER_01And it's 35 times greater the dopamine from watching pornography, 35 times greater than the dopamine that is released when doing heroin.
SPEAKER_04Wild.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yes. And and we live in a culture that is normalizing consumption of this. I'm sh to my core right now.
SPEAKER_00That is so I'm like, I'm actually speechless. That's actually insane.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because even oh my gosh, that's crazy. Because I'm just thinking about like God designed sex. God designed sex within the context of covenant. And so now there's this major temptation where you can get that same, not you can get like a like a rush of dopamine from getting basically fake sex, it's not even sex, through pornography. And then how much that actually perverts and cur corrupts the original design to have something so beautiful as covenant and to enjoy that within the context of covenant.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then what it does to corrupt that.
SPEAKER_01When you think about what you're talking about with dopamine resistance too. And that's why it is, you know, it's also like proven that like when you start consuming pornography, you then it starts to what you're watching starts to get uh I don't know the word I want to use. I don't want to say worse and worse, but like it starts in one area and then it's like, well, this isn't do it anymore. So then you've got to go to something more extreme, more extreme, more extreme.
SPEAKER_00Because if you're the rewiring constant, dopamine resistance, yeah. Wow, that is keep going.
SPEAKER_01Dope is driving me crazy, but yeah, keep going.
SPEAKER_00I need to grab or something. Okay. Well, funny, we didn't even say, I feel like last time we did this too, where we forgot to do our introduction. And I I get now, because if you guys don't already know, I enjoy podcasts and I could say the same for Ari. But a lot of times when you hear podcasts and they're talking, they're like, Oh, by the way, welcome to X, Y, and Z. So on that note, welcome back to Through It. Um, last week we did a rerun. That was the first time we did a rerun. And it's actually crazy to think that we've been doing this for almost a year. Um, so welcome to Through It. This is Kimberly.
SPEAKER_01This is Ariana.
SPEAKER_00Um, and she's multitasking, getting Delta baby here situated. Uh, to catch you guys up. Ari was out of town. Last week we did a rerun. The week before that, even was kind of a little bit out of our normal rhythm with how we record our episodes because her husband Frankie had a competition and my husband was also there with him. So it feels good now just to be back into like the rhythm of it. I agree. I'm like genuinely excited. Um, and we were talking before we hit record. There's times when we really do prep for our episodes. And there's times when we're like, I don't know what we're gonna talk about, have a couple of ideas. We'll probably just kind of go with the flow. And we're talking, that's like our normal, that's our favorite, I think, when we just kind of ramble and we don't have when we don't over prep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Cause it's interesting how you can feel that and hear that through the mic when you're overly prepared. It almost seems like it's like not manufactured, because I do genuinely think that we're being authentic with how we show up, but you can kind of feel it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There just isn't, I don't know, like it's, I think when we I pray that everything we do is Holy Spirit filled and Holy Spirit led. But when there is um, when it's you know, it starts with like a deep dive and a study and like um going through the concordance and looking through commentaries, like we we're still doing that, and that's still like discipling us and um teaching us theology. But I at least for myself, I can't speak for Kim. I find myself like I take all these notes and there's all these things I want to say, so then I'm getting through it to say the things I want to say versus just like flowing naturally with you. And it's it's just I don't know if anybody can hear the difference, but for us, we feel the difference and it's less fun when we do it that way.
SPEAKER_00No, I agree. And there's a time and a place where like when I'm reading something, I'm like, oh, that's so good, I want to share that. But even like as we're catching up before we hit record, at a couple of moments where I'm like, oh, that would be so great for the podcast, but also to reveal it back and be like, not everything is for the podcast, you know? And so I think also to break away from that, because the number of conversations where I think, like, gosh, this conversation is so rich, I wish other people could like hear this so we can share this. But that doesn't have to be like we're not doing the podcast to be so impactful in that way. I just want to echo what you said a second ago. It's like, I just want it to be Holy Spirit-led. So, in the way that Jesus did not say things unless the Father told him to say it, Jesus did not do things, he did not heal people, he did not do miracles unless the father led him to do it. And so that's kind of the the same um, I don't know, the essence of this podcast. We just we want to be Holy Spirit-led so that we could just do, you know, follow the lead.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Take the pressure off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it it takes a lot of the pressure off too. So anyway, with that being said, um, there were a couple of topics where we're like, oh, we should talk about that. Um one of them we're talking about the Holy Spirit. Another one we're just talking about um a little bit about your trip. And the other one else, like, this would be interesting to dive into this. So I think I'm just gonna pick one. And this episode is just gonna be us going off different tangents. If the conversation goes another place, it just will, but we're just gonna flow. So come with us. Come with us, enjoy being in on the conversation with us. Um, all right. I had this thought where I would say in the last few months talking with you, a lot of times we're like, this is why the world is upside down, you know, with how we see things in the Bible, um, beliefs we hold as Jesus followers, and um the way of the world, the way of culture, even trends and what's popular now, it's so they're so opposing of each other. And so this morning I was thinking about like, what are things that we maybe stand on as Christians that maybe the world would um outwardly disagree on or even think is strange? So just like countercultural to to be simple, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Um I feel like it's almost everything.
SPEAKER_00Honestly, because we're not wrong.
SPEAKER_01We're in the world, but we're not of it. Yeah. And we're we're we're called to not be conformed by this world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And there are things that like and I think um even I keep repeating myself here, but even if net there's nothing new under the sun, society does shift. And we can see that in scripture too in different times where societies societies like of the world shift in terms of what they find important and what they focus on. It's always not God, but there's different things that they that they they shift towards. And right now we have this this like uh unity acceptance love narrative, right? Where everything is accepted, you can do whatever you want, you can be whoever you want, it's all the way up to you. And there are principles that um were built in in Christianity with you know, and following Jesus in terms of like love your neighbor, yeah, that um the world likes and likes to make likes to pervert to fill to fit into the way that um the world does feels it's right. Because there is there are certain things, there are certain doctrines, right? That we know that following Jesus we we we obey certain things because we want to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think that that's another thing that like um I have conversations with people who aren't believers, and often they'll say things like, Oh, you're not allowed to do that, or aren't you you're not allowed to do that, right? Because you're a Christian, and I'm like, Well, I choose not to because I would prefer to be with Jesus. Right. This is not in obedience with Jesus, but the um I forgot my point in just saying that like the the world likes to cherry pick from the Bible what they've decided is okay. And then everything else they they don't like.
SPEAKER_00Well, the thing that you just said about love your neighbor and how the world will take that and they'll run with it. It's interesting you mentioned that. I was looking for this note that I put in my phone because I had a similar thought. But with the way that the world will pull something out of scripture out of context and run with just that one part, but not get the entirety of the passage or allow scripture to read scripture because they're just not informed, you know, or they don't have the spirit of truth within them. But something as simple as like they, and this is why as Christians, we have to be so discerning. This is why we have to be in the word, because a lot of times you'll hear something that it sounds right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This is even wild. I think I sent you this on Instagram that AI is putting out so-called Bible verses and even putting like a reference to it, like putting like a John 1-1 and then putting a different verse. Yeah, it's crazy. And it it's it sounds nice. It's like, oh yeah, God said um that you know, if you wait, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, give the desires of your your heart. Like, like, I don't know, just like little things to to twist the truth just subtly.
SPEAKER_01Um, and then if you're not, yeah, you can. I think we talked about this once where um I came across a video where somebody was was talking about, oh, in in the Bible, there's this story where da-da-da-da-da. And I was like, that's not in the Bible. Uh Jesus, it was apparently this person was saying a story that Jesus told, and I was like, Where? No. Jesus, like I have read the gospels and I I know the stories and the parables, and not to make me spiritually superior, but it, but because I have read them, I know I can identify that, like, no, that's not, that's actually not true.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's really dangerous.
SPEAKER_01It's like Hosea, my people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like this, that's it. When like we're given, and you know, it AI is AI and is putting out things, but people have tried to um to change and pervert scripture. There's whole other doctrines because they've tried to do that, you know, and claimed that oh, this is biblical or that's biblical. But if you read the Bible, yeah, then you have the knowledge to to to be equipped to say actually no, that he didn't say that.
SPEAKER_00That's like the parable with like the the wheat and the weeds, that before the wheat gets to the point of harvest, like to the point of like having fruit, the wheat and the weeds, they look exactly the same.
SPEAKER_01And they grow together.
SPEAKER_00And they grow together. They're even they even become intertwined.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so like you have to be able to, like, you'll know them by their fruits, right? And so it has to be in alignment with the script with the scriptures. So, okay, here's a question then. Um because I was thinking, even as Christians, like, then what are things that I'm gonna ask you, what to you is something that you've had to give up following Jesus that um in your previous life that maybe you enjoyed, but it's like, no, in order to be obedient, I've had to give this up, even if this is something that I have enjoyed at one at one at one point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I think the the obvious things I can say that um thank you, Jesus, that God has been so merciful and so faithful to me that none of it feels like a giving up. None of it felt like a sacrifice, but I think of things like um that's really good. Even small things, secular music, secular television, like those are small things, I think, in in the grand scheme of things. But I the Lord just changed my heart. He circumcised my heart. I had I lost my taste for it. I don't feel like it was a a giving up. I think the things that I still struggle with that I am that I am asking for help to give up from the Lord are um the my pride and gossip. If being fully honest, and and not that I like I think the world has a perception of gossip. And like people who talk about people or start drama. I don't I don't think I've ever been like that, but just in the way that I like to talk and talk about things, sometimes it comes up with talking about people in a way that I can feel now in my heart the conviction of like, you actually don't need to have those conversations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's really good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it it doesn't, and I could sit back and be like, Well, I would say this to their face, you know, the the things that we say as humans, but I can feel the Holy Spirit conviction in my heart of being like, just stop.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, shut your mouth. And then to have the foresight to circle back around and to even lay that down and be like, sorry, Lord, I shouldn't have said that. The number of times, even in this last week, that I've like said something to my husband and had to come back around and been like, I shouldn't have said that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Arguing with my parents, you know. Do I love to argue with my parents?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I I think Wait, are you gonna tell me what yours is?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. Um, I love what you said about like your palate has essentially changed, so it didn't feel like such a heavy sacrifice per se. Um honestly, I kind of just want to echo what you said. Like, I really have to be mindful of how I talk and what I say. Like, is it life-giving? I always I have this visual all the time of like the sort of the spirit coming out of my mouth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And words being spiritual in nature, even. And so the times where I get convicted, I'm like, what spirit came out of my mouth? Like, what seed did I plant by saying that? And I I do get really convicted about that. And we could come, we could always be like, oh, we live in a fallen world, we have us in nature. But God, the thing is, that's an excuse. Yeah, God calls us higher, He calls us to live a life of righteousness and holiness. And so, not to say that we're perfect. I sin every single day, every moment. There's something, whether I realize it or not. Um, but we are still called higher. And so we need to continue to run that race. So I, yeah, I and and and pride. And I would even say, you know what? Not just pride, although this is it branches out of pride, but even the false humility. I feel like I get uncomfortable when someone compliments me. And there's a gracious way to accept it, but there's also a way where it's like, okay, is that a little bit of false humil humility? Because you actually felt good when they said that, you know? And so I think even exercising how to receive compliments would grace, but to still give glory to God and with full authenticity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um tough one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. Because it's I I do believe that anything good I do is God. I don't think it comes from me. So anything that would deserve a compliment, it should the glory should be given to God.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's good. And there is no false humility in that. But I think in order to pull the false humility out, is to constantly go back to that truth that you just said. It all comes from God anyway. Um, so I think the through line for this conversation with like, okay, um, culture doesn't want to hear this, but I would say to kind of wrap up this one is freedom isn't simply getting to do what you want. Like that's not true freedom. Biblical freedom is to live in truth and to follow God.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because those who abide and dwell in the shadow of the Almighty, yeah. Like to be under his shadow all the time. That is the true protective shade. Like to be under his covering. That is freedom.
SPEAKER_01That is the true freedom.
SPEAKER_00That is the true freedom is to be with God. Yeah, that's not do what you want.
SPEAKER_01We we live in freedom now because Jesus took our sins and paid for them for us. That's why we have freedom. And I think we that gets overshadowed by culture.
SPEAKER_00Freedom is knowing what is and isn't sin. Freedom is having the to have the eyes to see. That is freedom. Freedom is um having the grace that the Holy Spirit would even reveal to you and convict you of um when you are in the wrong.
SPEAKER_01That that creator of the universe, that Elohim that thinks about us, knows our name, numbered the hair on our heads, and speaks to us.
SPEAKER_00Freedom is not being bound by sin. And that's what the world will tell you is getting wrapped up in doing X, Y, and Z because you get to do whatever you want to do. But if that thing that you're wanting to do is sin, you are fooling yourself. Like that is uh you're living in deceit. That's not freedom. You're controlled by that. Whether you worship God or you don't worship him, you're worshiping something. Yeah, you could be worshiping yourself, you could be worshiping money, your career, power, ways of the world, opinion of man, acceptance, pride. Somebody else's body. That. And so freedom isn't simply getting to do what you want.
SPEAKER_01Um, can I just add one more point?
SPEAKER_00Please.
SPEAKER_01Freedom is also knowing that when you struggle with those things, because we we have our flesh and we are human and fallible, and everything that you said live in a fallen world, that we can give that to God who will graciously support us and and and help us get rid of that. That we can say, Lord, forgive me that I idolize this thing and I cannot walk away from it on my own. I need you to do it for me or to help me or to guide me. Like I can't do this alone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I identifying that. It it's it's not taking it all on yourself. Like being a Christian isn't, okay, now you're a Christian, now you need to do better, and you need to be better, and you need to do X, Y, and Z. It's uh acknowledging the your flesh, and and that you need to then die to your flesh.
SPEAKER_00Die to your flesh. We recently watched this clip where Christine Kane is basically, she's like, die, die, die, like your flesh, it needs to die, it needs to die. And that has just like been ringing in my mind.
SPEAKER_01And we love that. I love it. We love that verb. I know. We're like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I remember how I felt when I read it, because that she was like, it was getting me hyped up because I'm like, yeah, that thing died. That thing died, kill it off of me. Yeah, kill my flesh. I don't want to want this thing, like your spirit and your flesh are at enmity with each other, like it says in the word. Um, yeah, that's so good. Okay, I have a couple of other things. Would you, I'm gonna ask you, would I say like 25-year-old Ari or 20-something-year-old Ari. Yeah, would you think she would say that Christianity is boring?
SPEAKER_01That's a good question. I know um 25 any part of my 20s, I don't think I would ever say it was boring. I think that I um I wouldn't say it was boring. However, like if you asked me and asked me to say it out loud, I would say no, it's not boring. However, I was not walking or living like a Christian. I was not, I was not following Christ.
SPEAKER_00I would say 20-something year old Kim might, although like I mean, we talked about this so many times. Like, I if you would have asked me, like, do you love God? I'd be like, Yeah. But if you just looked at the fruit of my life, it wouldn't have screamed, I love God.
SPEAKER_01I had no fruit. Yeah. Not a single berry. And so I not even a berry.
SPEAKER_00Um, I wonder though, if I would have thought that it was restrictive. Because I very much talking about pride, very much was like, I'm gonna do what I want to do. Oh, for sure. And no one could tell me whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And if it's wrong, cool. If it's wrong, let me learn. Like the number of times that would fly out of my mouth in my 20s, even if I'm wrong, let me be wrong so I could learn.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I don't know if that's wise. I don't know. I was gonna say it's kind of smart, but it's so unwise.
SPEAKER_00Like, so you're telling me that like I could save myself from a lot of pain and heartache, but you still want to experience it because you're that stubborn.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I was definitely like, um, I would make myself blind to things. I had I had a an amount of reverence for the Lord, but I would just like I think we were kind of talking about this before, where it's like you know what's right and wrong, and you're stepping towards what's wrong, and you rationalize it. Well, it's not gonna be that bad. It's you know, and then and then you do that thing that you you ultimately thought was wrong, and you're like, okay, now I've done it. Where it's like it's your insulin resistance, your dopamine resistance, and then your morality resistance because you're like, Yeah, yeah, adult heart, and you just so the the yeah, you start to um callous your heart or ears, um, sear your conscious, and then you do something else a little bit more, blind eyes, and then it becomes more blind, more hard, more callous, just losing more of your vision, yeah, and then you turn around like I did one day in my 30s, and I was like, Oh my goodness, wow, who was that? Yeah, how did I get there?
SPEAKER_00It's it's wild though, because but that's what happens when you just consume trends, worldly trends, ways of the world, um, appetizers and entrees and desserts of the world. Like your your palate, it wants more of that. Like whatever it is that you taste, you're gonna crave that, like they say, you know, and so it is not a surprise. Like, we shouldn't be surprised if that's what you're consuming, that that's what you want, and that you just get like when you drift, you're you so think about like being in drifting waters. When you're not swimming at all and you're just floating, you're just gonna go with the flow of the current. That's just what happens.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so if you drift your way, living in living life, you're just gonna drift with the flow of the current of the world because that is what is dominant in this world. We live in a fallen world. We do not live in a world where like the majority of the population is Christian. That's just not the reality right now. One day every knee will bow, yes, but right now that day has not come yet. And so, like, you have to be very intentional and like how exhausting is it when you're um fighting the current. But here's the thing though, like, you don't have to fight the current in your own strength and in your own ability. Yeah. God is you're anchored to God. You can't in your own ability. That's the hard, that's the the hard part. And I would say if there's anyone that finds Christianity exhausting, I should say if you find religion even, if religion is very exhausting.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But if you find Christianity exhausting, maybe to do a little bit of a self-assessment. Cause we talked about this earlier. There are moments where we're like, Lord, this is this feels difficult.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Flesh die.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Kill my flesh. I hate this right now. But here's the thing: like, you have to call on him. He has to be your strong tower. Like, he has to be your source of strength. But if you're the source of your own strength, you're gonna run out. It is not a never-ending supply. And so if you find it to be exhausting, let's let's assess, you know, like how off, what is okay, whoever's listening, like what is your devotional? What does that look like? And I would say, how much time do you spend in quiet in your word? How much time, and not to measure, like, oh, you need to pray for 15 minutes, you need to pray for 30 minutes, you need to no, but like honestly, there are disciplines that are required for certain things to get better at anything. There's there are certain disciplines that have to be in place. And so on that in that same that same nature, there are spiritual disciplines. In different seasons, you have a different capacity, but the reality is like you still have to prioritize your your faith block in order to nurture it and to grow it. You have to spend time with God.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what where are you where are your eyes? Yeah, like do not what is is it in Romans, don't be conformed by the ways of the world? Um, don't be conformed by the ways of the world. The patterns of the world. How do you not be conformed by the ways of the world? You are set apart from the world. Yeah, you're called to be holy. How do you become set apart? Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and what is the way of the world? So a different translation says patterns of the world. Like, what is the pattern of the world? The pattern of the world is do what makes you happy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, do what you want.
SPEAKER_00The pattern of the world is um feed your flesh. And that's kind of like Christianese, I guess. If you say like feed your flesh, but like do whatever your heart wants you to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So like uh you're saying exercise no discipline, yeah. Exercise no restraint, no self-control. Self-control is a fruit of the spirit.
SPEAKER_01I'll tell you to give us like a real life example. Um my flesh wants to uh my flesh is obsessed with justice and my perception of um correct justice and my flesh wants to fight, argue, and change minds of people um in my life or not in my life, yeah, to um to change their mind to what I have decided is is the correct way. So like I guess to put it even more plainly, um we we know that my husband is Frankie. Frankie is making sourdough. Shout out to sourdough Frank and Alva's bread. Um, I love that he breaks sourdough. I love that he loves it so much. I'm my flesh struggles with um the amount of things that are on my counter. This is good. There's he cleaned it yesterday because my flesh I peeked over there. The amount of things on my counter. I I like to live in a house that looks like a model home. I don't have children. I have a one six-pound dog. So I and I have the time to devote to my house looking like nobody lives here. That's what I like. And nobody, it looks like nobody lives here until you walk into the kitchen. And then there's clearly people live here, and one of them is a baker. So there's um a mixer, there's the sourdough starters, there's a scale, there's knives, there's so much stuff on the counters, and my flesh goes crazy about it, crazy about it, and wants to tell my husband, you can't have things on the counter because I don't like things on the counter. Why do I not like things on the counter? What does that even mean? Who cares? What does that even mean, right? Is my husband doing something that um God has called him to do? Yes, God has asked him to do. Yes. So did yesterday did I succumb to my flesh, not kill my flesh, and throw a fit about things being on the counter? Yes. Did my husband graciously maneuver through it and put things away? Yes. Did I then feel bad badly because who cares? Who cares? My husband is doing something that God asked him to do, and I need to support him through that and not throw a fit about things being on the counter. So what what I could have done or should have done would would have been to tell myself exactly that yesterday. It doesn't matter if things are on the counter. Your husband is doing your husband is walking in obedience and doing something that gives him life and gives other people life by by sharing the bread and sharing the gospel through this bread. And that's how it that's that's how that should have been handled. So, in terms of like doing what what what your flesh wants to do, like I could make a million reasons to say why it is that he should never have things on the kitchen counter.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01A million reasons. What does that do? It creates strife in my marriage, it creates division in my marriage, it creates um even just like arguments in my marriage. It it brings us further apart, which is really takes us further apart from the Lord, too. Or I could I mean I'm not saying just do whatever he wants. That's not what I'm saying, but I could recognize this is this is a fleshly desire. This is not rooted in in my pursuit of Christ. It is what I want based on what I think is okay and what I think is good, and now he needs to listen to me.
SPEAKER_00That is so good. I I want to clap. I'm like, I want to shout, even because that's really ministering to me with even how I am. I even the part that you're saying with like, okay, is he, is he, is he honoring God? Is he doing what God is calling him to do? And how can I support him? And like, really, does any of this matter right now? Like, even earlier we were talking about like all of this is temporary. Like, what if we looked at it like that more often? And not to say, so this is the tension that we sit in. This is all temporary here on earth, but that doesn't mean don't steward it well. That doesn't mean be reckless, that doesn't mean um be irresponsible. Like we're still, God still wants to bless the labor of our hands, and he still calls, we're still called to be ambassadors for Christ. So, how does that look? You know, what is a pattern of Christian living, not the pattern of the world? But that reminds me of just I'm the same way, and maybe it's a little bit, it's it's a different dynamic in my house because we have a first grader, which is oh my gosh, that's crazy. I just said no first grader who who recently lost his tooth. But anyway, a grown man. Yeah, he's so cute without missing tooth. Um and he talks now to show that he's missing his tooth. Um, what was I gonna say? Oh yeah, so like the other day it reminds me, I was like getting frustrated in my own head with how messy the house was. And I think before I got married, I always thought like the guy's the that's the guy's job to always take out the trash. No one else's job is the guy's like newsflash, it's not actually um realistic. If you can, why not go do it? I have the time, like what's the big deal, right? But I remember thinking, like, I put our recyclables in these paper bags, and there was like maybe three bags surrounding the trash can that needed to get taken out. And in my head, I'm complaining. I'm like, why didn't he take this out? Like he could have taken this out. And it's so funny in my mind, I'm agitated. And so he comes home and I'm so glad. Thank you, Jesus, for just binding my mouth sometimes, Holy Spirit. So I place the bags by the door and I just asked him when he got home. I was like, Hey, can you take these out? And he's like, Yeah, just went out and he took it out. I'm like, Oh my gosh, that was so simple.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he was like so willing. So to your point, he was like so gracious with even, and then I didn't say anything after, and like we just carried on. But imagine if I was just like, Why don't you ever do this? Why don't I always have to ask you? What like? And so as you were talking, it's just reminding me of that spirit of discord, that spirit of division, that that just the the nature of the enemy of always wanting to cause a disruption. We have to be sober minded. And this just keeps coming to mind. Be sober-minded. What does that mean? Be aware of what is happening in the spirit. Be aware of what is happening in the natural versus what is happening in the spirit. Like, is this actually something that you need to be like battling out? Or like, is the enemy trying to cause you to be divisive and trying to cause you to um this little just like bump in the road, is it gonna blow up into something much bigger now? Yeah. Because of that little thing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But think about like what the feeling that you have or the voice in your head, where is it coming from? Right? Like I feel like we there is um a large divide, I think, um, societally between men and women, um, to the point where society wants to dissolve men or women. You know, it doesn't even matter. But the uh crazy, you know, like it it you can you talk to most women our age, I think, who you aren't following Jesus or don't know Jesus, and maybe some who are, and they they can they'll say like blanket general statements like I hate men, or you know, and and I'm not this is not an excuse. For for some of you know sinful male behavior that is disgusting and not of God. But there is you know, wondering like where does that voice come from when you are wanting to fight with your husband? Like you spend all of your time with your husband. I would hope so that you'd spend more time with your husband than anybody else. So like things happen. And if you're a highly irritable person like me, it might happen more often. But in wondering, like in just the example I said, like when I um I started to get I started to look at the kitchen and see all of the things and how disorganized it was and how much of it was visible, and I was getting like physically anxious, and I'm not like a an anxious person, but cluttered the amount of stuff does tend to clutter my brain, which makes me anxious. And I'm like, I'm going into like kind of like an emotional freak out, and I'm not like screaming or running around, but my I can feel my heart racing and my body being unsettled. I didn't I didn't ask myself the second thought of where did this where is this feeling coming from? Why am I feeling this way? I thought I feel this way. You as my husband, it's your job, address it, handle it. I didn't think where is this a feeling that comes from God? Because there are times where like I'm feeling something that my husband does need to address as my partner.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We're in covenant. And and I could, you know, say that maybe even my feelings about the kitchen he needed to address. But if I'd asked myself the follow-up question of like, am I getting this feeling from the Holy Spirit, or is this some my flesh? Or worse the enemy that's whispering in my ear about something.
SPEAKER_00That's really good because you know, we could take that, like, okay, yeah, now I'm starting to feel like um I'm I'm getting like a visceral reaction to this. Um my heart is pounding. I'm even like getting a little bit of this of a headache from whatever you want to say. And then like your flesh could be like, it's my husband's job to take care of me in that way. And he should care about how I feel. But here's where I've had to do a lot of course correcting and rewiring and even my own thought process. Why am I expecting my husband to fix that feeling versus me going to God first? And so I think this is where the be still in surrender has really inserted itself in the season in my life of like, I could try to explain my way through things to someone else, or in this case to my husband, and then become more frustrated that he isn't understanding exactly how I feel and where I'm coming from. Or I could take it up to God and be like, Lord, I'm really struggling in this in this moment right now. Spirit of peace, please come over me and remove this feeling that I have and please change my heart and how I'm thinking about this. Go on about, in my case, like I had to pick up the recycles and I place it by the door. And and then for me to not to like over because I have a tendency to overexplain, which is probably why we do this podcast, because I have a space to overexplain myself.
SPEAKER_01But like, I love this space. I know. Thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00But like, but but also now, if that's still like to your point, there's a time and a place where your husband does have to, as you're in covenant, to partner with you and to walk with you through these things, to now even like pray, Lord, can you place this on my husband's heart for him to even have um just an affection and compassion for me in this way? And this is where like you have to trust the Holy Spirit that he will even move within the context of your marriage and in that dynamic versus you taking it upon yourself to put it on your husband and be like, do this exactly to make me feel better. It's like, are you gonna are you gonna take this up to the Lord and then be patient and let him work on that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so this is like real life things here, yeah, in a very current season, you know, and I think it'll be like this for the rest of our lives. There's always gonna be something because we're not perfect.
SPEAKER_01There is such um the the um the text of wives submitting to their husbands um can be so polarizing, like in and out of the body, right? There are some people even in the body that have a hard time with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think that it can be perceived as it being that we're less than we our thoughts and feelings don't matter as wives. Um, we're like second class, whatever, whatever the world wants to pervert it by saying, but in in general, it is, you know, we're if we're doing it right and we have Christ at the center of our relationship, it's always the husband and the wife saying, You first. You first. Your your um deal is a bigger deal than my deal. And it is it that is so that is life-giving, that is peace-giving, that is God honoring to serve, yeah. And it men are called to love their wives like Christ loved the church, and that was the most sacrificial love, right? Yeah, so it it nowhere are we saying like wives sacrifice everything about you, who you are, and what you want and your feelings for your husband. No, no, no, no. Christ loved, uh excuse me, husbands love your wives like Christ loved the church. That was the most sacrificial, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And also we're called to honor and respect our husbands. I'm thinking about so Colossians 3.23, it says, Whatever you do, work heartily as for the Lord and not for men. And so exactly what you said, it's not to be like, oh, whatever you want doesn't matter and just continue to serve, submit, serve, submit, serve, submit. No, like the matters of a heart, it matters like God sees that and it's important to him. Like he sees our heart, he is a loving father. Um, but I feel like there's such a shift that happens, and even the joy that we have when we think about like whatever you do, don't think about it like here I am having to submit again. No, like whatever you do, work heartily as for the Lord. So as you are serving, do it unto the Lord.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And there is a heart shift and a posture that happens in that. Um, I think that for me in my flesh, where I'm like, okay, I have to do this again. But if I think of it from the context of like God said so. God said so. That's why. And earlier when we were talking about killing our flesh, if you don't know exactly what that means, like this is a real life example. Like, I don't want to do this, but I'm going to do it because God calls me higher.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That is killing your flesh. And honestly, I have moments where I'm like, sometimes killing my flesh, it feels more difficult. But after the fact, I really am like, thank you, Lord, for equipping me. Oh, for sure. Like, thank you that you made me able, but also thank you that you made me dependent in that moment on you.
SPEAKER_01That you've even given me the conviction to feel the feelings.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That the Holy Spirit knowledge has come to me. Yeah. That I can think and feel that way. We have a brilliant friend who said to us, said it in our presence, there was a lot of people there, not just to you and I. Um, that she said, For Lord, for you I will. And I think about that all the time because there are there are I'm not I'm not doing it for my husband, I'm not doing it for my mom, for my dad, I'm not doing it for the stranger, I'm not doing it. No, like when I when I come when I think person to person, I'm like, no, you disrespected me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But if I think it's doing it for the Lord, Lord, for you, I will.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01For you, I will.
SPEAKER_00It reminds me of, I might have said this story on the podcast. I think I did, but I'm gonna say it again. Um, when me and Jordan were not married yet, and my mom told us, told me, do not come visit unless you're married, you know, to basically sleep in the same house. You know, you have this kid out of marriage, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I remember being really upset and frustrated when I heard that because I was thinking, like, she's so traditional. She's so traditional. Like, we live in this day and age where it is common and it's normal now, boyfriends and girlfriends that live together. And I remember being frustrated. And I didn't tell Jordan at the time that she even said that. But then I had a friend that approached me and praise God for godly friendships, same friend. Um, where she approached me with her Bible open to not finger point and also not to dismiss my feelings, but to correct me in love and be like, hey, listen, sister, your mama's not being traditional, whatever you want to even call traditional. Now I hate that even term. She's being biblical.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so it flipped it from this person told you because this is what they want, and flipped it to because God said so. And as soon as you think God said so, it there is a softening of your heart that happens, at least for me in that moment it did. And so I want to also read to a little bit out of context out of that story, but first Peter 5.8, it says, be sober minded, be watchful. Your adversary, the devil, prowls prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. And so, in those moments of like, okay, is this what you want, or is it like a God said so moment? Like, be sober minded in those moments. Like, what is what would God want me to do? What would Jesus do? Please bring it up.
SPEAKER_01We need we need to say it more. And I'm it, I'm gonna keep referencing this. I don't know why, just in this couple hours that we're talking, I keep thinking of this verse, Hosea chapter four, verse six. My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law and your God, I will also just forget, I will also forget your children. Just the like, my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you.
SPEAKER_00You know what that reminds me of is kind of when we're talking about like churches that are um more reformed. It's only the word, maybe even some cessationists, they only stand on the word they don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Um, and they're like seeking knowledge, seeking knowledge. But then you have churches that are very Holy Spirit filled. You see the expressions of the Holy Spirit in that church, more charismatic, Pentecostal. Um, but then it's like, man, did we read any scripture? And so it's like, we don't want just this, and we don't want just that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We want to be spirit-led. It says to not quench the spirit, but also God calls us to seek knowledge. So we're not seeking knowledge to puff ourselves up and to boast and be like, this is what I know. But the point of seeking knowledge is so that we can also know the heart of God and what he wants us to do. That's all of it, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The the reason why we seek knowledge is to know God more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It it's like unless you know what he wants, how can you walk in obedience?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's crazy.
SPEAKER_01And if you don't know what he wants, how do you know who he is?
SPEAKER_00And that's exactly what happens, at least just personal speaking, personally speaking, and I feel like I'm sure people have heard this, but it's like as we read, I'm seeing the characteristics of God. I see in the way that he has consistently shown up, I see in the way that he responds, I see his heart. Like there, he's very consistent.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, he's never changing.
SPEAKER_00And so if you want to know more about him, open up the word.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, okay. I want to know your thoughts on this. You don't have to maximize your potential. What do you what do you think of that line? You don't have to maximize your potential. Um, if I through the lens of um what we believe in in faith and through the lens of the world, you don't have to maximize your potential.
SPEAKER_01There's so many different ways to slice it. Yeah. To um, I think learning how to study the Bible has given me a new perspective on just studying language and grammar and and English in general. Because if you think about like the inflection and then you, the context through the lens, right? If I think if somebody says to me, like, you don't have to learn how to maximize your potential, I part of me would be like, No, I don't, because I have the Holy Spirit. That part. I don't. But then you can also say, um, but the Holy Spirit is giving you gifts, how are you stewarding them? That's good. And how are you using them? Because we're we're all given gifts, but if you never crack the Bible, if you're never discipled, if you're never walking, if you don't know the character of God, how are you using those gifts? Because those gifts are often, again, perverted and changed by the world, the enemy, your flesh, and used not for not the way that God called you to use them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I love that you took it both ways, which is why I didn't give you any really much context, really, when I said that. Because you pretty much nailed it in terms of like, I was thinking something very similar. Like, because when you think about you don't have to max your like, I think the world would tell you to live to your fullest potential. And that's almost kind of exhausting.
SPEAKER_01But like, what does that even mean?
SPEAKER_00What does that even mean?
SPEAKER_01When you think about it in terms of like separated from from God, right? Like me as a human being, just as a human being, with what you know, if I don't have Jesus, if I have not accepted Jesus and I I don't know who he is, what potential does that person have? You're like a meat sack that only does the wrong thing. Yeah, meat sack, yeah. A worm. Yeah. I mean, even even after, still, like, you know, if if if good, all good things come from the Lord, then like what even is your potential?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And like who's measuring that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, and like, well, and like what what is the measuring stick, maybe I should say instead. But now when you think about like apart from him, I can do nothing. And I need Jesus for literally everything, knowing how to be a wife, knowing how to be a mom, knowing how to be a godly friend. Like, like, I can't do anything apart from the vine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You just can't. And so, like, when the world is like live to your fullest, like, I don't know what that means anymore. And so I think that is something that has just kind of changed as my faith has matured more and more. And like, it kind of takes the pressure off of trying to even perform in life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Your identity in Christ is in him, not based off all the things that you're having to do. But on the flip side, to your point, and I love that you went here, whatever assignment God has given you, like to your absolute best, wholeheartedly, like work heartedly to the Lord, walk in that through whatever the Holy Spirit has uh empowered you to do and equipped you to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I want to take it here because I was listening to a podcast and this really convicted me. So, going back to what I was talking about with like false humility, I wrote in my journal, I said, don't question your assignment. It's time to not downplay the gifts God has given you. Claim it in the name of Jesus. So I think a lot of times as Christian women, it's like we want to be humble, we want to be meek, we want to be soft, uh, we want to serve the Lord, we want to submit, like we want to surrender, all these things. That does not mean though, don't have a false humility. If God has given you a gift, one, be grateful and thankful. And this is just a personal conviction, guys. Take it how you want. But I found for me, like I am an intercessor.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And before I could say that I would, I'm like, gosh, is that prideful?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's like, oh, that was such a great. And it's because I didn't want my pride to spike. I don't want to be like, like, oh yeah, that was good. No, it's because the spirit of God and I have that knowing now, obviously, it's not me. It is the Holy Spirit. And it is okay, claim that the spirit of God is in you. So why are we shy to claim that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I used to shy away from like when people would be like, You have the gift of intercession. I'm like, uh, like it'd almost make me uncomfortable. But like that feeling where I'm wanting to like shrink back and almost like not receive that is not of God.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's different for for me if I was like, oh yeah, that was great. You know, I am that. Like, no, it's like in the name of Jesus.
SPEAKER_01In the name of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00This is only possible because of the Holy Spirit. Those words that came to me, that is not even of me.
SPEAKER_01It's almost like how the whole it all it is in acknowledging and recognizing your gift is pointing out the specific way the Holy Spirit works through you. Because it's not anything that we're doing. But there is an intention behind why why the Father made us the way that He did with our specific gifts. He wants us to have different gifts. Yeah. So He He works through us in different ways. And I don't know why I'll ask him one day. I have so many questions. I mean, I ask him here, but not everything's answered right away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and so, like, I I think that like we need to be people that acknowledge the gift that God has given us, the gifts that God has given us.
SPEAKER_01And use them.
SPEAKER_00And use them and to glorify God for the kingdom. Like, there's a part in um I'm gonna read it in Exodus where it says, okay, it says it's when the Israelites are being led out of Egypt, and it says, God did these things. Okay, it says, Israel, Israel, so this is uh Exodus 14, 31. Israel saw the great power that the Lord used against the Egyptians. So the people feared the Lord, and they believed in the Lord and in his servant Moses. They saw the power of God, they saw the gift of God in Moses, even, they saw these powerful things that only God can do. And so they feared the Lord and they believed. And so when we do these things, when we walk in our calling, when we walk in the assignment that God has given us, and we keep our eyes fixed on him, the hope is that people will see and have a deeper reverence for God and that they will believe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, and so like don't see us in Jesus. Yeah. But to not shy away from it. To not shy away from it. And and so, yeah, that is a personal conviction that I've had. And I've even told you, like, man, I see these gifts in you, but what's awkward is when it's like, yeah, I do have that. But I mean, like, honestly, it's like God gave me this, yeah, period.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I you started talking about this, and I was like, please don't ask me what my gifts are, because I still feel like it's still, I mean, it's still honestly, moment of transparency. Even when I just said, like, I feel like I'm an intercessor, like that even feels weird.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00As like this is a recorded episode, it's public, it's on the podcast, you know. But I think that is the enemy genuinely trying to get us to shrink.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's one thing to be like, you know, boasting about it.
SPEAKER_01The your gift of intercession is so clear. I think that I don't know that anybody who anybody who understands the gifts of the spirit has ever interacted with you and does not see that in you. That that that is there is a a specific God has put you, made you be born in such a time as this with that gift to to do kingdom work, to, to perform miracles through interceding.
SPEAKER_00And I think the fine line for me too is I never want to be like, oh, that happened because I prayed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's why I'm so um, I'm like, gosh, was I too eager to say I'll pray? No, like, no, Kim. It's because, and that's the enemy trying to be accusatory in my mind, because I I know that's not why. I I have a heart to genuinely want to pray for people because I have such a deep gratitude and I treasure the gift of prayer. I genuinely know the power of prayer, and the enemy will really try to sneak in there. And on that to get, yeah, and to get the body of Christ. To not walk in the gifts of the Holy Spirit because we are his vessel, to your point. Like it's only an expression of the Spirit and it's nothing to do with me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I do know that that same um equipping, God is gonna pass that on to my son. He already intercedes for people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. He's already thinking about the people in the neighborhood who don't know Jesus. He's praying for them.
SPEAKER_00And that's such a God thing.
SPEAKER_01And he's always talking to other kids about, I mean, he's also evangelizing.
SPEAKER_00He is. He is. And like, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but like I know our friend has even told you, like, you do have a gift to teach. I do think that in the way that you relay certain things and the way that you um even like map it out, it's very digestible. And so that is a gifting, you know, and like we could just go on and on about that. But I just want to say that to encourage people, even listening, like, don't shy away from your gifts. And like you, only you and God know the intention and the true heart that you have, the heart posture. Like, is this boastful or is it truly like you're doing this out of sincerity of for the love of Christ and the body of Christ? Um, but yeah, don't shy away from it. Like, walk in that gift and ask God to continue to equip you to continue to guard your heart and your mind so that you could steward it well with the food of the spirit. And so, yeah.
SPEAKER_01There is a reason why we like to talk. And it there are no coincidences that like this week I just made a post about how just grateful I am for you and grateful I am for this space. And I was just thinking about like I I was I was just I don't know, having a moment, a sentimental moment of like, I feel so thankful that the Lord gave us each other that that you came into my life and that we have the way that we it's like I don't know, like we've known each other forever, but we haven't. But then also like this way that our differences and similarities kind of just like lay so close together, like it just kind of works together smoothly. And then the way that like that we have this space to glorify God, to speak about the things of God, like I just feel so thankful that all of this that He would use me in this way. Like if it if something happened tomorrow and we've only, you know, we only did like what is this 50 or 50 episodes, I think? Close to close to I am just I can't even believe he gave me 50 episodes to like run my mouth and say things that like now I'm you know the way that the Holy Spirit works and how he changes us continuously, right? It's sanctification as a daily process. Yeah. When I was looking through old episodes and thinking, like, what are we going to replay? I was kind of like, Oh, there's already things from like it's been a year. Yeah. We started recording a year ago. Yeah. That I'm like crazy. I don't stand by that anymore.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or maybe I said that in a weird way, or it could have explained it in another way. Yeah. But just I mean, and doubling down on the like knowing your gifts and then leaning into them for to glorify God, like when when the body works correctly all together, what happens, right? Like we we're supposed to work in unity with our with our specific gifting, all to do the same thing, to produce fruits, to glorify God, to evangelize, to, to speak the gospel, to tell people that true freedom exists in Jesus in Christ. Yeah. And there's, I think a lot of people, we were talking about somebody earlier, somebody in my family, that even that I can see, and then even me just talking about her too, Kim, Kim can feel that there is a gifting on this person's life. This person doesn't know doesn't know the first or last thing about about Jesus or Christianity. But there's something there. And there's one, I think, in the way that the Holy Spirit works in us, to to feel it, to say it, and then to pray about it, because that's that's somebody that's gonna come to Jesus and do another great kingdom work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And to so what you just said about to notice something and then to pray about it. The number of times where it's like, man, I don't know what this is, but I'm just gonna reach out to them, or like, I don't know what this is, but I'm just gonna pray on this, and that like God will unfold things and reveal things to you. And sometimes maybe you don't even get to see the fruit of it. I think that's a lot of times actually when we pray for things and we don't personally get to see the fruit of it, but there is something that is happening in the spirit, and maybe it's not until we're on the other side of eternity that we'll even be able to know about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But that's faith.
SPEAKER_01Yes. You know, I I just got back from visiting my family, and I had the vast majority of my family together, mostly my my father's side, but also my mom's side too. And my my grandma was talking to me about how every morning she prays for the family, and the there's so many of us. And I asked her, I'm like, How long does that take you? And she's like, Well, at least an hour and a half. And she's like, I just start praying and then I go where the spirit leads me. And I was like, Listen, lady, look, look at this table. Because it all worked, it all worked. We had years of of division, of of not talking, of not being not knowing Jesus, come on, but uh her years of of praying every morning for her family down the list. I mean, there's they have, I think, 12 great grandkids. Wow. So if I can tell you how many grandkids and kids they have, and just her fervent prayers and diligence and faith in knowing I'm gonna pray for this person, I'm gonna pray for this person, I'm gonna pray for this person, and it all like I wouldn't be here in this room with this mic, talking to Kim, knowing Jesus. I don't think if this one wasn't praying for me.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Uh, can you share you were saying you finally had the opportunity to ask your grandma how she got saved? Because I think this is perfect, talking about like now the generational impact, the ripple effect, but it all started for something seemingly insignificant.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which is crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, my my grandma. I don't I in conversation, I call her grandma. To her, I call her Nana, and I don't know why I do that. I think Nana just feels Caucasian, but I should be okay. So my Nana, my dad's mom, uh, is a woman of great faith and has been since I was born. That's how I've always known her. Um, and has been praying for me for probably 36 years, maybe 36 in a couple weeks. And I've never asked her when it all happened. How did it happen? When did it happen? Um, I knew that it happened, I don't want to say later in life. It wasn't like she was she was a young woman, but it was not at birth. Yeah. So I had asked her, like, how did you how did you get to know Jesus? When were you saved? And she told me that she was um going through a rough point in her life, um, and felt like that her marriage was going through something really difficult. She was in a a difficult season, and she was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Like, I don't know how I'm gonna like I I gotta make this work, but I can't make it work. And she was baptized Catholic. I don't know that she grew up in the church, I do wasn't practicing any sort of faith or anything, and she was selling makeup and she went to this meeting where they sold makeup or they talked about selling makeup. And um the woman who I'm unclear on if it was the woman, I think she said it was the the host of this makeup selling get together, was talking about the Lord and saying things, and it was um it felt like what from what she was saying, it was pretty conversational and that there was other people there. And it just kind of like perked her ears, and she was like, like I kind of want to know about this, like what's going on here? And um a woman had given her a ride, and on the way home, she asked her about like, can you tell me more about this? Like, what's who is this guy? Who is this guy? What's this about? Yeah, what's this about? Um, and so they the woman had brought out um like a little booklet that she had that was I think something like it said like the like four spiritual principles or something like that, and they read through it together. And right then and there she decided she wanted to give her life to Jesus. She prayed the sinner's prayer, she accepted Jesus. She got home from that makeup party and told her husband, um, who was not a believer, uh, she said she believed him to be like agnostic at the time. He is now, my my grandfather. He's actually getting baptized next weekend. Stop. Yeah, he's he's uh I think I would say he's been following Jesus for many years, but he's finally getting baptized next weekend. So she got home and she tells her husband, I can't wait to tell you what I did. Look what I did, I just accepted Jesus. And he says, Great. So now you're gonna serve him before you serve me. And she says to him, Well, if I understand things correctly, wow, I wouldn't be married to you if it wasn't by intention, if he didn't want me to marry you. And she told me that, and I was like, This is like minutes after her being saved. I was like, Well, hello, fruits of God, like this Holy Spirit knowledge, yeah, immediately. Yeah, that's like, thank you, Jesus. And then everything changed after that.
SPEAKER_00Wow. And to think that it was from a like a very casual conversation with someone, one thing led to another. And it was simply from this other woman just like talking about God and his goodness, yeah, not not with the intention of like I'm um doing an altar. Yeah, and or doing an altar, you know, and and then the generational impact that it has had. So to our point earlier about sometimes we do things out of obedience, not necessarily as like a checklist. God gives us instructions to do this, this, and this and this, but like just living out of obedience, just living as a reflection of Christ and being an ambassador for him. And how without our knowing that it could have such an impact, and this lady is not like she was like putting forth all this effort, she just followed the lead. Yeah, and just following the lead of the spirit, and then one thing led to another. Generational changes, generational, and generational.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if this is boastful, God forgive me, but like kingdom impact.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, very that I don't think that's boastful, boastful in God, yeah, you know, like that is so cool, and so even in the way that the number of so earlier you were talking about like we've known each other for some years, but it's been only up until this last year that we've really developed this friendship that who would have thought then too, like God is so sovereign in that way, so cool, like it's it's wild, and then who knows even the the um the ripple effect from our conversations and even how it's personally impacted my life. Oh now I'm gonna cry. But I would have never thought. I know, you know, and like I have been so like in the best of way impacted by something so simple. Like it always just starts as the smallest seed. It is, yeah. And so to be obedient in that way and just to trust you, even if you don't see this giant bundle of fruit right away, like be obedient in the smallest seed.
SPEAKER_01And you don't even know the seeds you're planting. You don't even know that the seeds are there. When I'm when I met Kim, just when we initially met, it as far as I can remember, as far back as I can remember, you've always been vocal and bold about your faith. And there was it was always from my perception known that you were um a Christian. I mean, and and like devout to Jesus. And I was not, but I knew that about you. And we our paths crossed in and out. We were like on the outskirts of each other's lives, like you know, we were friendly, but didn't really have like a relationship. And this is what I mean when I say God is so cool because it's like He let us do this like dance in each other's lives. Yeah. And then there was this moment where he was like, okay, now go do this thing together. Yeah. And then and look, that happened. We started, I think, actually really bonding and becoming friends. And then a few months later, I had this like supernatural, not like I had a very real supernatural encounter with the Holy Spirit in my life, boom, since September 9th of last year. Yeah, totally different. Wow, that's a trip. I don't even know what we talked about this episode.
SPEAKER_00I actually don't either, but I think that was the nature of this episode. We're like, we're just gonna go down some tangents, guys. And I really I'm so glad that you shared that story about your grandma. Shout out Nanavicki and Papa Rocky. Yes, I love it. Thank you for your prayers.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00If you don't know how your grandma encountered the Lord or even your parents, you guys should ask them, how did you meet Jesus?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think I love to hear people's salvation stories. And a lot of times it's I was telling you my mother-in-law, like it was also from reading a track, just like a little pamphlet, you know. I'm like, we need to bring those back. Yeah. We need to like make our own tracks and maybe give them.
SPEAKER_01Start passing them out. Start reading them to people.
SPEAKER_00I know. I still have like a heart to want to like go out in a public space and do something like that.
SPEAKER_01I'm ready.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I was thinking about that because we thought about doing that over the summer and now it's already the fall.
SPEAKER_01And now it's getting cold.
SPEAKER_00And now it's getting cold. You can go to a mall. I know. I would be so down. I actually think it would be so fun. Because if anything, I really enjoy hearing people's stories, and I really love hearing people's testimonies. Um, and I really love to get inside the head of an unbeliever. Like, like genuinely, like what happened, why not? And even just praying. Like, most people are open to receiving prayer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Even if they don't believe in God yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We um now I'll tell you this off the podcast because we've been talking for an hour and a half and we should probably wrap it up.
SPEAKER_00That flew by.
SPEAKER_01I know. There's look, I'm never at a lack of words, which is like it's a problem for me.
SPEAKER_00Sorry.
SPEAKER_01I think that that that those are gifts.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. There's time and a place. I have a counselor, guys. And she was like, Yeah, I just watched you overexplain that.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, okay, lady, take it easy. Well, pray for her. I'm like, I I honestly.
SPEAKER_00Anyway.
SPEAKER_01I just watched you overexplain it. Yeah. God bless you, Kim, for getting through that. Talk about the way my flesh would have reacted. Thank you, Jesus, for not putting me in that situation. Uh let us pray.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'll praise that. We thank you, Father. Thank you, Jesus. We thank you, Holy Spirit, for just your presence and just weaving your way all in the details of our life for just being so present, whether we realize it or not. We thank you for your faithfulness, Lord. We thank you that we truly have no lack because we live in full victory. Jesus, we thank you for the price that you paid. I ask you, Father God, that we could see every part of our life through the lens of the sacrifice that you paid, Jesus. Um, I pray for a continued sober mind. I pray for eyes to see and ears to hear, and that when we hear you, that we would not harden our hearts, Father God. I ask you that you would give us hearts that are softened, um, hearts for the people of you, God, hearts for the non-believers, compassion, long-suffering, and patience and grace for those that do not know you. I ask you, Holy Spirit, for a conviction to spread the gospel and for a discernment of when to speak and when not when not to speak, when to listen and when to just walk in your fruits, Father. I ask you, Holy Spirit, to just continue to reveal your assignments to us, Lord, that we may run that race, that you may continue to equip us and to breathe into us, to give us a supernatural strength from you, Holy Spirit. And Father, for everyone that is listening right now, I ask you, Lord, that you would reveal to them the gifts that you have planted within them, Father, and that we could not quench the spirit and muffle those gifts, but that truly, Lord, that we could give you all the glory and that as we express just the equipping and the power that you have given us, Holy Spirit, that more people will come to know you. I ask you that um Ari and I could live lives that truly are a reflection of your light. And that we could speak life. We ask you to forgive us where we fall short, Father God, and even forgive us when we when we misspeak. But I thank you that your grace is abounding, that we move from grace to grace. I ask you that you bless our listeners and that your presence would be in this space that Ari and are in right now, and that um we could just continue to walk in obedience. Show us the way, Father. We just lift up your name, we praise you, and we worship you, Father, and you're mighty and in your matchless name. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
SPEAKER_01Do you see the lights flicker? No, you said your presence be here and the lights flickered. Thank you, Jesus.