Saddle Talk with Sandy and Cara
'Saddle Talk with Sandy and Cara' is hosted by two saddle sisters, keeping you company one ride at a time. We discuss life, love, horses of course, and all the unexpected turns along the trail.
Saddle Talk with Sandy and Cara
Feeding Glorious Feeding
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Ever wish feeding your horse came with a simple map instead of a maze of opinions? We get candid about what actually works at the barn gate: choosing between alfalfa and grass hay, finding consistent sources, and building rations that honor each horse’s metabolism, age, and workload. We unpack the difference between being active and being a true athlete, why that distinction changes calorie targets, and how easy keepers can tip into danger when free-choice hay becomes a default.
We share the systems and signals that cut through the noise. Forage-first feeding keeps the hindgut happy, while slow feeders and porta-grazers stretch chew time and stabilize energy. Winter adds its own logic: fiber fermentation creates heat, making longer-lasting grass hay at night a smart move. Still, method matters—nets can snag shoes, ground feeding invites dirt, and clever horses defeat devices—so we trade the hacks and safety checks that survived real-life use. When supplementation earns its keep, it’s because it fills specific gaps: salt and trace minerals for cellular function, targeted copper and zinc for dull coats, and omega fatty acids for skin and shine. Tools like FeedXL help visualize whether hay, blocks, and vitamins truly balance out, without stacking expensive products “just in case.”
We also tackle the high-stakes mistakes: rapid diet cuts that stress organs, sugar-heavy surprises that can trigger laminitis, and the myth that alfalfa automatically makes horses “hot.” Sometimes a horse isn’t spicy—just finally nourished. Our goal is practical clarity: forage-heavy rations, modest tweaks, slow and steady weight changes, and questions asked early to the right people—vets, nutritionists, and trusted horse friends. If you’re tired of guessing, you’ll leave with a calmer plan and a sharper eye for what your horse’s coat, feet, and work are already telling you.
If this helped you breathe easier at feeding time, follow the show, share it with a barn friend, and leave a quick review so more riders can find it. Got a myth you finally ditched? Tell us—we might feature it next time.
Clip flop goes the trail, sun is rising. Ha two gals in the saddle neath the big Nevada sky, laughing and chatting as the desert rolls on by. It's Saddle Talk. Come along for the ride.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome, listeners, to Saddle Talk with Sandy and Cara. Whether you're here to laugh with us, learn, or just ride along, you're in for a really good time. So go grab your helmet or your pooper scooper and settle in with us as we discuss life, horses, of course, and all the unexpected turns along the trail. And hey, whether you're a seasoned cowgirl or you're still learning, remember we're sharing our own stories and opinions based on decades of personal experience. Always ride safe and check with a professional before trying anything new. Now let's go ride. Well, hello, Sandy.
SPEAKER_04:Hi, I feel like it's been a long time.
SPEAKER_02:It's been so long.
SPEAKER_04:But nobody knows that.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_04:But it feels like it's been a long time.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I feel like it's been a really long time. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So what are we gonna cover today?
SPEAKER_02:Today we are gonna talk about feeding. The nebulous.
SPEAKER_04:It is such a thorn in my side.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, it is, friend. How do you why? Why is it a thorn in your side, Sandy?
SPEAKER_04:Because my horses are either fat or skinny or they have diarrhea. I just never know if what I'm doing is right. I feed meadow grass and alfalfa. And then other times I think that I need to stop feeding alfalfa because they're getting too fat. And then I'm afraid if I'm only feeding them grass hay, they're losing too much weight, and I need to feed them more grass hay. And then I think about what you feed your horses, you're not feeding any alfalfa. So why do you choose to not feed alfalfa?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. There's a learning curve with feeding, and it is a science. It is truly a science, and there is no right or wrong way to feed your horse as long as they are getting the nutrition that they need. But that being said, there are a lot of different options and a lot of different opinions. And I've gone to college for feeding. I've taken feeding classes and I actually made up my own software for feeding rations to different animals. And one the one I chose was horses, of course. Of course. Of course, right. And so when I did that, I learned a lot about the nutrients that they need to be successful. I learned how important cost is. I learned about what fillers are. And I think having all of that science-y background on what food is has really helped me feed my horses. That doesn't mean that I do it perfectly and that I don't overfeed them.
SPEAKER_04:You know, and if you think about how it relates to people and our own diets, we do the same thing. Yes. We we eat too much, some people eat too less, some people eat the right amount, but they get no exercise. That's where I think I'm falling into. I don't, I think that I'm eating okay. I'm just not exercising. And it's freezing cold outside, and I don't feel like exercising. I don't feel like riding. My horses are lucky they get fed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It is so cold when I go outside. And I think that all my life I've been worried about my own ups and downs with weight and what the right way is to eat. And then I get scared for my horses because I'm afraid that I'm overthinking it.
SPEAKER_02:I know, friends. It's just never ending. And I I feel like it's a war, it's not a battle, right? Like this continuous concern about feed and feeding. It never ends. And I think it's such a nebulous topic because everyone's got an opinion.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And you can go to any website and you can go to any feed store, and you're gonna get thousands of different opinions on the same exact animal of what you should and shouldn't do.
SPEAKER_04:Without saying the name of the two places that we get our food from, because they're both very good. And I don't want to give a name and have anyone think that I'm endorsing or putting down one over the other, but you go to a different place than I go. Why do you go to that place? The place I go to has a bigger variety, and I choose them. I think it's because Michael likes to just go pick up hay. I I really do. He enjoys going. The process. Yes. Why do you choose one one store over the other? Yeah. Why do you choose that one over the one I go to?
SPEAKER_02:Truthfully, I choose the place in town because the quality of hay that I get is very consistent. And I always know what I'm gonna get. So because I always know what I'm gonna get, and they always get it from the same farmer, I think it's such a consistent food that then I can supplement that food to meet my animals' needs a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_04:And you have less issues.
SPEAKER_02:I have less issues with like diarrhea, diarrhea and diet change. And while I love feeding outside the box, I love introducing the different seasonal haze that we can get, like the Teff hay. I love giving that to my horses because there are times when they really, really like it. I hate Teff because it's so inconsistent. Right. So it's just like this thing: what do I do? It's like having a kid. How do I feed my kid right? Right, quote unquote.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my gosh. And there's so many different people out there that will tell you you're doing it wrong.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_04:And and what I've learned with having kids is that you have to research and ask questions, and then you have to think about your own style and incorporate all of it together. You can't just say, Oh, this one way is the only way, because your child may have different needs. Even children within the family are gonna have different dietary needs from each other, and you have to learn how to adapt. So you have two horses, I have three. One of them is a little piggy, she only gets grass, and the short amount of time that I was giving her some alfalfa, she started gaining weight faster. Then I took it back. But now she hates me. She she hates me. Every time I walk out, she's blowing air and snorting. She's very opiniony. She's like, fighting with Shooter because Shooter knows he gets the alfalfa, she doesn't get alfalfa. And then I feel guilty for her. I feel bad because I feel like she's always hungry, she just always seems hungry. Then what do you do?
SPEAKER_02:How do I, you know, satisfy her? And that's one of the reasons why I've asked you to house her for me because your setup has individual stalls, whereas mine doesn't. And because you can feed her the way she needs, it is such a load off of me.
SPEAKER_04:Right. But you're feeding grass now anyway. Do you think that it would be an issue now?
SPEAKER_02:That grass is very high in nutrition, and she would definitely get fat at my house. The speed at which she can eat really good hay is surprising. She's a little tiny horse that can just vacuum up. I'll tell you what, though, she doesn't like my hay. And it takes her a while to eat it. Yeah, my grass hay is really tasty. It's probably the best Timothy I've ever witnessed. I actually found out it's the same exact family. The that feed store in SoCal that we were getting our feed is the same exact family that supplies the place I get my feed now.
SPEAKER_04:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02:I know it's crazy, but it makes sense to me. It's such a high quality.
SPEAKER_04:Of course, and we're all on the West Coast. So I just thought that was so funny when I thought.
SPEAKER_02:That is.
SPEAKER_04:That is really crazy.
SPEAKER_02:But I feed the horses I have now, grass. I think if I was going to feed just one feed, I honestly would choose alfalfa. Hands down. Really? Absolutely. When you look at the nutritional value of alfalfa, it is the most bang for your buck, just fantastic all-around food for a horse. And I know that we will get backlash on that. And I don't care. You can't bite me on this. Well, I've been to school.
SPEAKER_04:I'm sitting here thinking to myself, should I just start feeding Max all alfalfa?
SPEAKER_02:You probably could feed Max Alfalfa because what you have to look at is what Americans don't look at either, is that caloric expenditure. So you and I are gonna have different metabolisms the way that our animals will. And you have to take into account not just the calories you're gonna burn per week in exercise, but what is your metabolic rate? And we both know that Aspen's metabolic rate is like me and you. She's got this little tiny metabolism, it burns hardly nothing. She could get fat breathing air. Breathing air. Exactly. And it's too bad for her. I would love to feed her alfalfa all the time, but she's gonna get sick. And so I have fed alfalfa in the past. The two animals I have at my house now, if I fed them alfalfa, they would gain weight.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, 100%. Right. Because one of them is autumn. And I yes, yes. When I bought autumn, her previous owner said, don't even feed her alfalfa. And I was using her a lot more than she was. So I felt she needed a few extra calories. Right. So I did start feeding her alfalfa. And she she did start getting a little diarrhea in the beginning, but I do think that the diarrhea is more in tune with her heat cycle than it is with food.
SPEAKER_03:I do too.
SPEAKER_04:And I don't know that Virginia, I can say her name, she has passed on. She passed, uh, I think when we had COVID, she had passed.
SPEAKER_02:She made a lovely horse. She made such a beautiful horse.
SPEAKER_04:She did such a beautiful job with it. She made a great job. She really did. I don't know if she really researched why she's having diarrhea or put the two together. I don't know why I pay so much attention to that end of my horse. Oh to research it.
SPEAKER_02:You're such a good horse, Mom.
SPEAKER_04:That's why I try. Well, and I'm worried because Max is starting to get his spine is showing again. It's I'm I can feel it. Maybe I will go home and give him some alfalfa.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, he's built like a tank. And so when you have that musculature that is so thick, you have those thicker horses, they are naturally gonna burn more calories than our cute little Aspen, who isn't doing much and just doesn't need much. He's of a different type of horse. And that's kind of like Bob. Bob was, I think he was 1,250 pounds when he died. I never would have guessed he weighed that much. But it made sense why he could hold food so well. Right. Because his frame allowed it. He was very wide, yes, wide-bodied, thick muscled. But you know, I think one of the hardest things in America, North America, I should say, is that we think of activity as exercise.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And so we think that we're exercising.
SPEAKER_04:I think that just because I go out and ride my horse, I have exercised for the day.
SPEAKER_02:Right. No. And there's a difference between being active, like a human being active, and a horse being active, and a human being an athlete and a horse being an athlete, and we all in our heads want our horses and us to be athletes. And I get that. I get that being active is wonderful, but there really is a divide between a person who is a true athlete and someone who's just actively healthy. And even on that active scale, you're gonna have minimally active people who are gonna do way better than sedentary people, right? But that that active scale goes from a little bit of activity to a lot of activity. And when someone is very active, they really are on that edge of being an athlete. Yes. Okay, well, your horses are the same way, and in our heads, we want them and we love them and we want them to have everything that they need, right? Right nutritionally. Okay, so we're gonna feed them as if they're athletes. Okay, they're not. No, right? Like, even if you ride your horse on really long trail rides, in reality, how many hours a week is that that they're exercising?
SPEAKER_04:Well, and not just that, that trail ride is usually a bunch of you know, people out there just talking and chatting. And I do know people who go on extreme trail rides and their horses are working their asses off, literally. I would say that most are just out like I am with my flask and my girlfriend, and we're just chat, chilling. Yeah, just chilling. So, yeah, my horse is active, but that's not exercise.
SPEAKER_02:And you would have to have consistency and build a base. And you know, a true athlete is gonna have a seasonality to their fitness. Like when you know that an animal can't keep that fitness and you have to give them a break, okay, that's an athlete. If you're training for a certain event and then that event comes and goes, and you have like a work up to it and a release afterwards, okay, that's an athletic animal. If you're jumping a couple times a week and it's like low-level jumps and that horse is used to it, I mean, it's still just an active animal.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Right? It's not necessarily an Olympic level animal who's gonna have the same nutritional needs as an Olympic level horse. Right. But we all want to feed our horses as if they could be. So we tend to overfeed and oversupplement big time, and they're scary. Like to over-supplement can truly be dangerous.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And I, for the longest time, wouldn't feed vitamins just because they're so expensive, and I have the three horses, and you were supplying aspens, I wasn't feeding my other two. And then I my company has this program now where if you do a really good job, people can recognize you and you can get these points. And over the year, I think I've gotten a total of 700 plus points, which were actually dollars because they tax you on it. So they're they're dollars. And uh Show Glow comes in a 25-pound bag, and I got it for 35 points, and I had 500 points. So my horses are now all getting vitamins, which is wonderful. I feel really happy about that. Good.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, I think because you fed alfalfa, it's not as big of a deal that they weren't getting a vitamin. Because not only did you have alfalfa, you also have your blocks out there with the salt with the minerals. The tra they call them trace minerals. And so because you had the trace minerals, that's a part of the nutritional world that an animal cannot do without. So when you're looking at can my animal stay alive, what should I feed it? You need to feed it trace minerals, truly, because your body cannot go through cellular functions without those minerals. And because people have different views on the block because horses are only ever gonna crave salt. So if your horse doesn't crave salt, it's not gonna get enough trace minerals. But for the horses that do eat enough salt, they would get enough trace minerals. And so, yeah, if you're not gonna feed your animal vitamins, that was your best choice. Alfalfa with the trace mineral block. Cool, wonderful. That was perfect, and you probably didn't need more than that. But if you were gonna do an analysis, and this is what I recommend for everyone to try, is there's a company online for free. It's called FeedXL, and you can go online and for I think you have three horses for free. You can put in your animals' specifications of activity level, age, because that's gonna change. Nutrition changes with age. So you can put in all of this stuff, and in this program is every single feed that I have ever come across in my life is in this program. Like even the vitamins are in there, and it will tell you really in the super cool graph is your animal getting enough hay calorically? Is your animal getting enough of the nutrition that it needs in all of these different areas? And it's looking at the trace minerals, and you can pay extra, and it's not that much more if you have 50 horses that you're feeding. Oh, okay. And you can also pay more to do a bigger analysis. Oh, okay. Like if you wanted to look at even more of the vitamins and minerals. And what is the name of that website? It's called Feed XL. The word feed, and then the letter X and the letter L. Okay. It was one of the best ones I've ever seen that was for free because it was super easy. It was like going on My FitnessPal for Humans. Oh. Have you ever tried my FitnessPal? I did, yeah. I love it. I love it. I've had that stupid app for over 20 years now. Like when they first started.
SPEAKER_04:And it's still supported?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. I've never bought the premium. It's kind of like on FeedXL, I've never purchased the premium. Yeah. I just want to see, like, oh, what about my macronutrients? And am I getting enough?
SPEAKER_03:Kind of thing. Right, right.
SPEAKER_02:But it's kind of the same idea as my fitness pal. Is that if you track it, then you have a better chance of meeting your animals' needs, especially as they change. So seasonally, our horses aren't going to need as much. So it makes sense that we're cutting back on some things and not on others. But you have to remember we've got the cold. And I think Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. That scares me the most. I think that's why I enjoy I enjoy giving them the grass hay at night because I know they don't really like it as much as the alfalfa and it lasts longer.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So they're munching on it longer through the night when it's super cold. At the end of the day, though, I don't even know if that matters.
SPEAKER_02:It does. Actually, the fermentation of the feed inside of the horse creates heat. Okay. So if you're nervous that you know your horse is cold, feeding them, it makes sense. And if you fed the same every single day, no matter what the season, in the winter, your horses would lose weight naturally. Right. They are burning more calories to stay. To stay warm. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And their hooves don't grow as fast.
SPEAKER_02:Things slow down.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, everything slows down. I enjoy that not having to have the farrier and pay that bill through the winter.
SPEAKER_02:And I enjoy being able to feed my horses and I guess control, not not controlled, but like what's the word? Just being in charge of regulating? Regulating. Yeah, regulating their weight. Yeah. For me is something I actually really enjoy. I've always been a super nerd when it came to nutrition. And when I took those classes in college, I got an A in my nutrition classes. I always did. I just thought it was so freaking spectacularly fun. And for the different animals, not just for horses. But when it came to horses, it just made me really aware of what is out there. And I'm really sorry for everyone that's feeding your own horses.
SPEAKER_04:Because it's like a roller coaster when you think about a new person getting into horses, you want to do everything right, and there is no right answer. Yeah, it's very unsettling. How do you survive? We were just out there talking about training, and you know how to train, and you needed extra help, right? And you were getting a certain discipline, which is fine. And now you're trying to marry those two things together, and you're struggling, and you're looking for a specific answer from this area, and you're trying to marry it with what you know you worked for you in the past, maybe not on this particular horse, and now you're trying to bring it together, and it's hard. It's so hard. And it's a struggle. It is a struggle. So, you know, add that to feeding and it just compounds because now you're dealing with the health of your horse. Right. And you could potentially kill your horse. It's true. With with food.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my gosh, it happens.
SPEAKER_04:We kill ourselves with food. I mean, and that's what happened with. You know what I had yesterday? I had two pieces of toast, and I had four pecan chocolate thingies that Michael brought home from Lowe's. Because they're closing them out. Well, guess who eats them? Me.
SPEAKER_02:Not anymore.
SPEAKER_04:No, because they're gone.
unknown:I finished them.
SPEAKER_04:Actually, I think. There's three left. I'll eat those tonight.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But we all do it. I know I shouldn't be eating that crap.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But it's there.
SPEAKER_02:And there's so much research about the foregut and the gut and the hind gut. And then there's prebiotics, postbiotics. Like there's so many layers. And then there's the new track feeding systems that everyone is trying and raving about. And then I think for me, one of the hardest things to marry is the idea that a horse should be eating 24-7. So if a horse is eating 24-7, as someone who takes care of my own horses, I can't. I cannot offer free food 24-7. Even if it's the lowest quality hay. And I've done that. I've offered cow hay. It wasn't rotten, but I have offered cow hay to horses. Really? When I had the Mustang. See, and I was told, don't ever do that. Oh man, it was terrible. I'll never do it again. But I was trying to get her to have food more often in her belly. Yeah, no. She was still overweight. And I hate that we have this problem of like domestication. But the problem really is we have these domesticated animals and we need to keep them. Meanwhile, they have the biology of an evolved animal, right? Who was a range animal. And now you have to try to keep their gut biome healthy so that they don't get ulcers and they don't have all of these problems. It's it really is a crapshoot.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and that's where this is a good opportunity to bring up the portergrazers. I have bought uh three now, and I love them. They're wonderful. Autumn will go through hers very quickly. Aspen will go through hers quickly. She's figured it out. She she knocks it over, picks it up, knocks it over, picks it up. The other two, the boys, they're a little slower in their eating. And so I do really enjoy having the porter grazer. Even that though, it's all it's time consuming. I would need nine so that I could have three for each horse that I could just go out there and throw it out there. Or if my horses are eating three flakes, what if I put all three flakes in the porter grazer in the morning and let them graze on it all day?
SPEAKER_02:I feel like they're still gonna go through it faster. Right.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And then at the end of the night, maybe I'll try it out in the summer when it's not so cold at night.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe I'll give it a shot, just one day, yeah, and see how long it takes them to get through it.
SPEAKER_02:Go for it.
SPEAKER_04:That would be great. That way they're grazing all day. Even a wild horse doesn't graze 24-7. No, they don't.
SPEAKER_02:They run around, they run around, they sleep, they pee, they see them hanging out, they screw other horses, yeah, they fight, yeah, they play.
SPEAKER_04:So they're not actually eating 24-7. You know what's funny though, a friend of mine, I was telling them how I feed three times a day, and they looked at me shocked. We're like, three times a day? Do you spoil your horses?
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_04:How is that spoiling the horses? But feeding them if you can, which I can because I work from home, uh, if you feed them three times a day, same amount of food, just three times a day, that's a little bit closer to what you're talking about, to the 24-7 feeding. It's a little bit closer.
SPEAKER_02:And that's what a lot of barns do, is the three times a day. Really? Because the barn we were at only fed twice a day. Well, yeah, that's because it was traditional. Actually, I've been at three barns. Well, I'm talking of like athletic performance barns. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay. Okay, because I was gonna say the three barns I've been at only twice a day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, that's all they're gonna do. Right. Right? It's it's a lot to pay someone to do. A lot of uh upper level barns will feed three times a day. You can get lucky and go somewhere that's four. But I think the sort of norm-ish people where people have settled is the three times a day. And I really like the slow feeders. I put my horses' feed in the slow feeder at night. I have the hay, the hay nets.
SPEAKER_04:I put a hay net in shooter's salt. Yeah. He got his freaking front foot stuck. I'm so glad I was still out there when I was cleaning. I gave everybody a feeder before I got my porter grazers. I put the nets out there, and I was thinking to myself, because he paused. Because he doesn't like feeders and he tries to get it out and he has shoes on. Don't you know he got his stupid shoe of his front foot stuck in the and I I walk by fighter suicide girl? I walk by and he's just standing there on three legs and just eating. He didn't freak out, which is great, right? Because he's the one that has the broken scar nose. And he's standing there on three legs just eating. And I walked up, I just was like, you idiot. And it took me a couple minutes to get it unhooked, and I just pulled it out. I was like, Nope, I'm gonna wait till I get my porter grazer.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_04:And he actually got the insert of the portergrazer out because you have to line up these little nubbins with the whole there, and there's a key, there's a hole, and on the handle, there's an arrow so that you line the hole up with that, and that's how it slides right out. Because those little nubbins, you know, spin around and they can't. He didn't figure it out, he just rolled it around in such a manner that they lined up and came out. And then Max, I don't know what that boy did, but he bent something, and I could not get the insert out. And I'm thinking because it's so cold and everything's kind of shrinking, yeah, that it's coming out now, so it's okay, right this minute. I think in the summer, when it gets warmer and things kind of expand, I'm gonna have to have Michael shred the side of it or something. Oh gosh. It's a mess.
SPEAKER_02:It is, and that's why every horse is an individual, and you have to feed them that way.
SPEAKER_04:Well, let me interrupt. There's another thing that I have read that horses' natural position for eating is down on the ground. So you shouldn't give them a net because their heads are higher than what they're supposed to be.
SPEAKER_02:What's the right answer? The thing, yeah, exactly. There's not, and I'm sure that there is science behind all of it, and there's clinical trials from the companies who make the feeders. There's a corner feeder I really want to try that's supposed to be a slow feeder. I haven't tried that one yet. It's pretty cool design.
SPEAKER_04:Porta Grazer makes, and yes, I am advertising for Portagrazer. I I told the owner that I would do this. She was so wonderful. When I had the issue with what Max did, I called the company and I didn't expect anyone to call me back. And it's a husband and wife, and the wife called me. I was on the phone and I was like, Oh my gosh, I cannot believe you actually called me. This is amazing. And I told her that I was going to uh advertise for Porter Graser because I just think it's an amazing product. It is, and they have a corner feeder.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. See, I want to try that. Maybe I should try that with both of the cute nerds at my house because I tried the portagrazer on my Mustang thinking that it would slow her down. She was wicked frickin' smart and she figured out how to just knock it over and then she was eating off the ground. And I was like, okay, well, I don't want you to eat off the ground, girl. I don't want you to get that much dirt inside of your belly.
SPEAKER_04:But wild horses do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but when they eat, they eat the plant up to a certain point, and they're not eating the dirt. They don't like eat the roots. If you think about a plant that grows up, right? I mean, sure, they're sure that they get dirt inside their belly, but they're not actually eating plant off the surface of the soil. They're eating the plant.
SPEAKER_04:I get it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I'm just giving us something to talk about.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, it's all good. No, it's fine. I it is um, what do they call that? It's like playing guacamole. Oh, it is awful. And I've I've researched a lot of different brands of um supplements. I had my horse Bob on smart packs forever, and I swear it kept him healthy. Like he was on smart packs for over a decade and he was shiningly beautiful on those. He's so beautiful. He was just and the moment I put him on the one, there's one for um coat and main, I think it is. Man, that one was a game changer. Because I entered into smart packs when they were only, I think the minimum was$40 for free shipping. And so I got in and I got him like a daily vitamin plus the one for coat and main. We did that for like three or four months, and it was such a fast change. I was like, oh, this stuff is working. So then I signed him up for glucosamine right away. And I also signed him up for MSM. And I swear, between the glucosamine and the MSM, I feel like that really added to his longevity. That that daily dose and it was so convenient. So if anyone's looking for convenience, smart packs are an amazingly convenient way to get your animal supplement, especially if you're not there to feed every day and somebody else is doing your feeding. And I know they took off a long time ago, so they don't they don't need advertising from us. No, of course not. But you know, as someone who's used smart packs, I found them fantastically convenient. Yeah. Um then the other thing is I was just going to the feed store when we moved here and I was just using Shoglo, which it does have holes in the nutrition, but not gaping holes. They're there, it's if you feed Shoglo, a good quality hay, and the salt lick, you're golden. Like you're pretty covered right there.
SPEAKER_04:Well, aspen doesn't lick her salt lick. Okay. So I oh you add for salt. I add I add salt into it. Wonderful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's great. I found that for my animals that have the dull coats, I'm always a little concerned about dull-coated horses. Yeah. Because I know that one of the things that's really hard to get into a horse is the omega fatty acids. And so that's why I chose to go with the omenity plus at Mad Barn, is they have a line of supplements that include all of the omegas. And so you can buy omegas separately. And I have in the past bought them separately. But it's a pain in the butt, it's like an oil, and it's like one more thing. And so when I found that company and I did analysis on their actual supplement, it literally met everything. And I was like, oh, I only need one thing. Okay, put into the cart. Yeah. Yeah. Putting that in my cart right now. Because I could tell Armani was just devoid of all of the good things. Yeah. I kind of figured based on what he was eating that he had a copper deficiency. I felt like he had a copper deficiency and I think zinc. So I purchased through Mad Barn just that and I was using that with the show glow. I saw a difference within four months. Oh. And it was night and day. And I was like, oh, okay. And then they were actually really, it was a really cost effective. So I was surprised because to get that high quality of a product at such a decent price, I was like, oh, okay, sold. I'm in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I looked at the Is that what you're feeding them now? That's what I'm feeding them now. I actually still have leftover because I don't think he has a deficiency anymore. I mean, you look, see him, he shines.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, he's such a fanny. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I still have like a quarter of the bag that I fed for almost a year. I've bought too much of it. But I am feeding him the omenity, which has the additional fatty acids. And what do you give Autumn? They get the same thing. Oh, okay. Because I like to spoil her. She will be eating the same as what I am buying my horse.
SPEAKER_04:Of course. Of course. I wouldn't expect anything else.
SPEAKER_02:It's a really high-quality supplement.
SPEAKER_04:She would probably jump over my fence and come back if I took her home.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, she loves me.
SPEAKER_04:She does. I know.
SPEAKER_02:She does her so much.
SPEAKER_04:I know.
SPEAKER_02:But I think the thing I like about it is that it's easy, it's fast, and I'm not gonna lie, it is a little pricey compared to my showclow. But I feel like You don't have children. I don't have children. And if I was buying the Shoglow, I would have to buy something for the fatty acids because I feel like Armani is definitely missing.
SPEAKER_04:And at what point, because I am uh doing the show glow, at what point would I recognize that maybe I need to give mine another filler, like fatty acids?
SPEAKER_02:I think that you're never really this is gonna sound crazy, but I think that you're really never gonna have a blaring problem. It's kind of like Americans, how we have all this food. We have food aplenty, and yet you can have nutritional gaps. The same thing can happen with our horses. Like we think that they look healthy, and you're not gonna see anything unless you get blood work. Okay. Or if you're trying to do something and it's not working out.
SPEAKER_04:Well, remember when Shooter had all those hives?
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:I had the vet come out, take a look at his hives. The one thing that he was concerned about was he he was a dull coated even though it was winter and dusty and he was dirty, he still felt that he had a dull coat. I think that he's better now. I think his coat is-I mean, even before the vitamins, I think that he has bounced back because the hives are gone, everything's fine. So, you know, I now see now I'm gonna go home and look at their coats.
SPEAKER_02:Well, look at their skin too, because that's gonna be another thing. What am I looking for? Your skin is fine, like their skin is fine, it's not flaky. Okay. So I think that was that was what really bothered me about Armani. It wasn't just that he was dull-coated and like the actual hair, you could tell there was something wrong with that hair. Yeah, it was like when you see an animal with like rickets, like I felt like he was that dull-coated and his skin was that poor a quality, it was flaky and nasty and crusty, and you're like, oh, you are missing something. So that's why I felt the need to supplement.
SPEAKER_04:But do you think I need to supplement them with some omega fatty acids?
SPEAKER_02:I don't think so. I think if you look at what you tend to feed, I mean, we could we could analyze aspens since she's just on grass. Right. We could analyze aspens, but because you're feeding such a variety of haze, there's something to feeding a variety of.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, but not anymore. Oh, so you're just doing the they get meadow hay and alfalfa. Isn't there a lot in meadow? Yeah, I don't even know what that meadow is made up of.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, why don't we analyze theirs? Okay. Because we can analyze theirs.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I do have the breakdowns. That's the thing. I own I don't know if the one in town does this.
SPEAKER_02:No, they don't.
SPEAKER_04:That the other one that I go to, you have that sheet and they have the breakdown of the nutritional value of the hay, and they have everything in there.
SPEAKER_02:And when I had my mustang and she was going through laminitis, that's why I switched to buying to the hay place you get it from. It's because I could tell you want to look at the sugar content, and your place tested the sugar content, whereas mine doesn't. And so that's why I was going to your place was to get the hay that had the least amount of sugar, and then I was soaking it, anyways. It was crazy. When you said earlier in the podcast that you can feed a horse until it dies, that is a hundred percent true.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:She got into a bag of sweet feed, and that was it. Her body could not handle it. And she never recovered, she never recovered, and we do that with kids too.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and dogs, you know, the other night when you guys were over and you asked if I just cut back on Pearl's kibble and that's what made her lose weight. I haven't. I didn't cut back on her kibble. What was happening was her allergy shot was a steroid. It wasn't this, I always say it wrong, the cytophil or the the one that begins with the C. That that allergy medicine. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't that I thought that's what she was getting. They it wasn't. They were just giving her a steroid shot. Oh she was eating everybody else's food, and I didn't know it. Okay. And she started getting fat. Okay. So now she is on that one, and I separate her, and she still gets she gets a half a cup in the morning and a half a cup at night. That's what I feed her. And she looks great. She looks great. Oh my gosh. Night and day. She has a little waist. Pearl is 75% corgi and 25% border collis, but she looks mostly like a corgi.
SPEAKER_01:She does.
SPEAKER_04:And she has the body shape and type of a corgi, and she gets fat really fast. Her belly was starting to drag. She had no hips. And everyone thinks that's cute. But it's not.
SPEAKER_02:It is not cute. No, they have a hard time moving. Yeah. No, poor baby.
SPEAKER_04:But she's great now. Everything's everything's the way it's supposed to be. And and it was my fault. It wasn't even the vet.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I I just I made an assumption and I never asked.
SPEAKER_02:I think when I look at the lifetime of feeding animals, the one thing that I have learned that will always stick with me. And after working at different vet hospitals, because I I was a vet tech for a long time as well. Small animal. I spent a little time as a large animal, but most of my time that I spent as a vet tech was in small animal, and that was five years total. The one thing that really freaked me out and will stick with me is when owners decide to put their animal on a diet and they just cut back really fast. And I just say, nope. It is better to have your horse or cat or dog slightly fat or really fat and cut it back slowly. When people would go in and make those dietary changes to their animals' feed, they were putting like their own body shame or they were putting their own like you know, perspective on I need to get my animal to lose weight.
SPEAKER_04:They were humanizing the animal.
SPEAKER_02:And the animal doesn't care, right? Like the animal just wants to function. The way we all do, right? And so I would say carefully and with the advice of vets, put your animal on a diet if you need a diet change. If you are feeding way too many calories than that animal needs, because the scariest thing I've ever seen is when people do that, and then the animal's body metabolizes fat and actually causes kidney failure. You can do that with your horses, you can do that with your dogs and cats. I have seen so many autopsies where they would bring these animals in who were young and healthy and say, Well, what was wrong? And then you look at the liver and it's full of fat, and the poor cat had been starving, even though it was still big. It was a big animal.
SPEAKER_05:Right, right. Right?
SPEAKER_02:Like you can't just cut back that fast. So I would say just be really, really careful. And I think that's one of the reasons why I tend to be okay with having uh a horse that's a little chunky. Because I like being a little chunky too. If something goes wrong, I'm gonna be okay because I've got 30 extra pounds to draw from. Yeah, I want my horse to have an extra 50 pounds, and not everyone's like that. You know, when you have a top athlete, you can't have an extra 100 pounds. You can't. But I just got a horse in my backyard. So I'm okay with a little fluff until we get serious about something. And then I want to lose that weight slowly with exercise and have it be aerobic and have it be steady, and I would much rather have an animal stay in check like that. So be careful out there with putting your animals on a diet.
SPEAKER_04:And always check with your vet and ask questions. That's the thing that when I started out with horses, I didn't question anyone. I assumed I didn't know anything, and I don't. Well, I didn't. However, I would have questions and don't feel like your question is stupid. Just ask your question. And if you have to relate yourself to what you're asking, they will explain it. They'll explain why it's different or they'll explain why it's the same. Because some things are the same, and most things are different. You know, ask your vet, don't be afraid to question and ask questions.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's what I'm actually learning now. And you could get in touch with different animal nutritionists. That's also an option. Like if you feel like your vet doesn't have enough education when it comes to nutrition, because a lot of them really don't. They're, you know. They're there to treat emergencies and they don't necessarily have horses of their own, which sounds crazy. Right. Because, like, who wouldn't have a horse? Especially animal nutrition is its own world. Yeah. And you can be especially in general is the own world, even for people. Even for people. Yeah. So I know the folks at FeedXL, I know that you can reach out directly to them and they will respond. That's nice. But you can actually reach out to different animal nutrition companies, which obviously they're going to have a biased view because they're going to be trying to sell you a product. But at the same time, like those people are really knowledgeable.
SPEAKER_04:So of course, because they're making a product for a particular animal, they need to do the research. They can't just say, Oh, we made this and you should use it. So they're going to be knowledgeable.
SPEAKER_02:And I think the number one thing in feeding horses is forage really is the answer. So if you can keep your horse on as much forage as possible and then as little of like grainy type foods as possible, you're in the right area. When you start feeding the grains and nobody really does anymore, like no one feeds rolled oats the way we used to feed rolled oats. Right. Like literally, my trainer would go and here's your two buckets of rolled oats. We just don't do that anymore. It's not a thing, it's all about the forage. So if you can just stay forage heavy, I'm not saying never feed rolled oats because it gives you satisfaction, but obviously those rolled oats are gonna cause changes in your animal's gut that you don't want to have happen. Like it's gonna be way too much sugar in the gut and it's gonna cause an imbalance. So I would say forage first and always. And if you need to have a time where you think that your horse needs something other than forage as its main diet, because maybe it's getting older or and its teeth have stopped erupting.
SPEAKER_04:Yep, it's like maybe stop working.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, then get in touch with one of those animal nutritionists if you are not going to use Feed XL or a similar program to help you balance your horse's ration. And that's what they call it, they call it a ration. So if you can't balance your own horse's ration, you get to a point where like, I don't know about this, talk to a professional. And I feel like there's a lot of people out there who are helpful that aren't necessarily professionals.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but those are the ones you have to be careful with. You have to because they're the experts. If you have too many, too many people you're asking questions to, you're gonna get too much information. You're not gonna know which one to do. God help you if you put it on Facebook. I swear. I just don't know how people do it.
SPEAKER_02:I don't either.
SPEAKER_04:I try not to ask too many questions on Facebook.
SPEAKER_02:You can't.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I just stick with you and Darlene. You guys are the only ones I ask questions about.
SPEAKER_02:Talk to your friends.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And the professionals.
SPEAKER_04:But pick the right friends. Pick the right friends.
SPEAKER_02:Pick the right friends. Pick the right friends. Forge first.
SPEAKER_04:Well, do you have anything else you want to share or add to the conversation for anyone listening that might be in our same predicament?
SPEAKER_02:Good luck. Breathe. Breathe. Food's not really gonna make your horse fiery. Everyone's like, oh, it makes them fiery. Are you sure that it's not just a balanced diet now? Like that's what I always think when someone's like, I'm not gonna feed alfalfa. It makes my horse too hot. Really? Like, are you sure it's not just they weren't getting enough calories before? And now they feel good? Now they feel good. Yeah. I would say just stay away from the tropes. We we you know, the way that we tell ourselves, like, oh, carbs are bad. I don't know if you know this, but your brain literally runs on glucose. So your whole body stays alive because of carbs. And if it wasn't for carbs, you can't function. So if your body is in need, it will turn your protein into carbs.
SPEAKER_04:And your body can't function without caffeine either.
SPEAKER_02:No, not my body.
SPEAKER_04:I went without caffeine this morning and I had a headache and thought, why do I have a headache?
SPEAKER_02:Because you need it.
SPEAKER_04:And then, and then you must have mystically known. Because your your conversation with me was, hey, want to go to Starbucks? Yes. How did you know?
SPEAKER_02:The answer is always yes to Starbucks. Always yes, always yes.
SPEAKER_04:Well, this was a great conversation. Because we've been wanting to talk about this for the longest time. I am always in the air. What do I do? What do I do? I'm always afraid I'm doing the wrong thing.
SPEAKER_02:I never really tried to sort of push you one way or the other because I knew you were feeding a very haven't. Yeah, you were feeding a very diet that included alfalfa. Plus, you have the mineral salt block. And honestly, if your horses are chilling in the backyard, that's really all they need. And now that you've added that vitamin, because your horses are relatively active, they're gonna get plenty of what they need. Because you left the salt block there with the trace minerals and they're still getting a very diet that is forage first, and they're gonna be just fine. And like you said, if you think that his coat really does come in dull, okay, well, you can blood test him, or we can just get a bottle of the omegas and see what happens, right?
SPEAKER_04:I'm excited for spring because I feel like now that I'm giving him these vitamins and we're working them through the winter, once those coats go away, all that gorgeousness is just gonna come out. Oh, he's gonna shine.
SPEAKER_02:Well, all of them. All of them.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, Autumn's coat is so thick right now. I swear she looks even fatter because the coat, yes, yeah, and the coat standing out. Yes, it's not laying down and thick, it's like out and thick. I think it's added like an inch all the way around her.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, if anyone is not sure of where to start, I would absolutely start with Mad Barn products. Their products are super high quality. I've been feeding horses for four decades, and I can honestly tell you that it is the highest quality supplement I've ever come across, and it is the most complete. So if you are only feeding hay, any kind of hay, and you want to feed this one thing, it'll meet your animals' needs. And that's not normal for supplements. Usually there's gaps. And because I only feed grass hay, that was one of the reasons why uh I wanted to go with omenity. It's because I'm not feeding alfalfa every now and then. And alfalfa is like feeding eggs. It's like the egg is one of the most nutritionally dense foods on planet earth for humans.
SPEAKER_04:Darlene always said that alfalfa was your steak and potatoes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is. That's what she told us. It's steak and potatoes. Wonderfulness. Yeah. And because you were doing that, like you don't have to worry about all of the other little things. But here I am, I'm not feeding alfalfa just because my horses will get. They're not getting any steak and potatoes. No steak and potatoes. That is way too much for them.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Armani is kind of like Aspen in that way.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, so is Autumn.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04:Autumn will get fat fast.
SPEAKER_02:They cannot have 24-hour feed no matter what anybody says about putting them on it. Nope. It will give them laminitis.
SPEAKER_04:It will.
SPEAKER_02:They will founder.
SPEAKER_04:So Autumn, I think Autumn only founder one time.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, she did? I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know if it was a true founder, but she was lame.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, baby.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, she was lame, and I did the whole soaking your feet and stuff like that. It was only once. And I remember when I showed her to the vet, the vet's like, that horse is fat. That horse needs to lose weight.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:Well, just you know, live and learn. I hate and learn. I hate having to learn on the suffering of an animal. But that's what we do. That's how you learn. You don't know you're doing something wrong until there's a reaction.
SPEAKER_02:And that's part of the reason this podcast, like learn from our mistakes. Truly. Autumn's coat's coming in great.
SPEAKER_04:Or disagree with us and put it in the comments.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, please.
SPEAKER_04:And like us on Facebook, and we're now on TikTok, too.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, you can see Armani learning. He's crazy. He is. Alrighty. Well, thank you for this conversation. Thanks for the chat. Wonderful. And I needed the Starbucks. Me too. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I love you. I love you. Toodles. Toodles. Hey friends. That's the end of today's ride. We hope you enjoyed listening. Don't forget to follow Saddle Talk with Sandy and Cara wherever you get your podcasts. Please leave us a review, share us with a friend, and saddle up with us next time as we ride through more stories, questions, and our wild tangents. Till then, friends, keep your boots dusty and your hard hats on. We hope to see you out on the trail.
SPEAKER_00:Sandy and Kara stir up swinging free, talking about life and love and mystery. From coyotes to coffee, they'll cover it all with a sagebrush blowing and the wild birds call. So cinch up your boots. We're hitting the track. Saddle talks on, and we're not looking back.