In His Shadow, In His Absence (Full Episode)

What if your idea of “dad” came from whoever showed up? We sit down with three Black men whose childhoods were shaped by very different father figures: one raised in a structured two‑parent home that prized education and HBCUs, one with a father who lived 0.4 miles away after an early divorce, and one guided by an older brother who stepped into the role when dad wasn’t around. Together, we unpack how boys build manhood from fathers, brothers, uncles, coaches, mentors—and the mothers who carry the load when everyone else drops it.

Christian traces the benefits and tensions of stability: two incomes, clear rules, church community, and a clean, minimalist father who struggled with sharing domestic labor until counseling helped. Centel shows how proximity and consistency can matter more than paperwork, describing a childhood fluent in both his parents’ teamwork and their battles, and the surprising peace of a healthy breakup. Trill brings the rawness of “hood rich” resilience, crediting his brother with steering him from a fast life to football and craft, proving that one steady voice can change a trajectory.

We get honest about privilege and struggle, Disney trips and phone bills, gender roles and the quiet work of care, class and environment from suburban Atlanta to Savannah’s small‑city gravity. The host opens up about detaching from a father after infidelity and discovering a secret sibling years later, reminding us that betrayal can bruise deeper than poverty. Through it all, we keep coming back to this: presence isn’t just a body in the house—it’s the practice of showing up, listening, and sharing the load.

If this conversation moved you, follow the show, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review with your story of who showed up for you—and how it shaped the person you are today.

Transcript

Opening And Series Premise

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Behind every man is a shadow, and for some that shadow was never there. This is in his shadow, in his absence. The podcast exploring what it means to grow up with, without, and in spite of a father figure. We uncover the stories that shaped us, the guidance, the gaps, the pain, and the pride, from present fathers and absent ones to brothers, uncles, coaches, and mentors who stepped in andor didn't. This is where we talk about becoming men, even when the blueprint wasn't there. Welcome to In His Shadow, in His Absence.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to our audience today.

Framing The Conversation On Black Fatherhood

SPEAKER_03 0:49

We will be having a discussion about black African American children growing up in a household with and without the male figure. Your father. Right? And that could be your father, your brother, your uncle, and the black community, right? That's how we we we get a lot of discussions, a lot of scrutiny. That's just cutting it straight to the point about this specific topic. And I have three black men ready to give their perspectives on their households. So, fellas, y'all just tell us about y'all selves and we'll begin with you. Christian, go ahead and tell us about yourself, where you're from, and also whatever you like to let the audience know.

Guest Introductions And Backgrounds

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah, hello everybody. My name is Christian Keith. I've been born and raised in Lawrenceville, Georgia, Gwett County, Metro Atlanta, all my life. I went to Howard from my undergrad and then went to Princeton from my master's. I had my father in my life all my life, living in the house. I'm an instructor at Georgia Premier College as well.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Wow. That's amazing, man. And now we're gonna have Cintel give us your insight and your point of view on your how your household was growing up with a male figure.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Oh, well, my mother and my father, they were married up until I was like three years old. So he lived with me. I got experience, I got some memories with him. I remember him putting me in the bed with him and stuff, and his beard was scratching me. And um, after they got a divorce, he moved like 0.4 miles away to my grandmother's house. We all lived in the same neighborhood. And I still saw him every day. And he still would come by the house and take naps before he'd come to work. So it was pretty interesting to get that dynamic.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Yeah, that's great, man. That's great. But yeah, that that that definitely sparks a memory when you could think about that, you know, specifically about your father. And we'll definitely elaborate more on that, man. I definitely uh see. So basically, your father was he was present. Not only that, he was actively present. Yeah. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Did you all play any sports or anything growing up? I played a lot of sports. I did football, soccer, baseball, basketball, believe it or not, and I did karate.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Nice. So, um, Trill. Yes, sir. Tell us, tell the audience about you, man.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Alright, well, I go by Big Trill from the Pope. I'm a music producer from Savannah, Georgia. Sowas at you. Definitely, definitely side out of Savannah State for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. Currently, I'm working on a few businesses, you know, YouTube, uh, social, like being a content creator, things like that. My childhood, my brother was my role model pretty much. He basically raised me when my mom wasn't like there. She worked a lot. And so that was a lot going

Present But Divorced: Centel’s Early Memories

SPEAKER_04 3:56

on. I know for my brother, we've talked a lot growing up, and especially as men now, we definitely talk a lot about how like he had to step in and be a father, but he really was a child himself. So that was a lot going on in my childhood. But yeah, that's that's pretty much the gist of what it of what it was at first. And you know, I'm gonna go on further, spread it from here.

SPEAKER_03 4:15

Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. Thank you for sharing that, man. Like, uh, so with your dad, I may have missed that. You say he used to work a lot. My mom. Your mom? My mom used to work a lot.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

My dad wasn't around.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Oh, okay, okay, okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, it'd be a it's a lot to definitely mentally to take with you throughout your life. And I just want to ask you, uh just one question. Have you met your dad yet? Or yeah, for sure, for sure. A few times.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

We actually, I actually just had probably one of my longest conversations with him on the phone earlier this week, actually. Oh, nice. Um, so we do talk here and there, but like it's it took me quite a while to really come around to being okay with talking to my dad. Yeah, it kind of felt weird when I was growing up. Even up until the last few years. I mean, you know, he wasn't around, so it's kind of hard to like invite this quote unquote stranger, you know, into my life, into my phone. So that was a lot for me up until like maybe like earlier this year, when we started talking a little bit more, you know, I actually called him for Father's Day and things like that, you know, just to just to show love, you know. Right, right, right, right. So definitely came a long way, I say, in that in that round for sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Oh yeah, man, that's man, appreciate you sharing that. Like, you know, people don't understand how everybody's situation is different. Nobody's perfect, right? We don't have a perfect family, right? So as long as you have people around you to fit those standards of knowing how you're going to be, you know, growing up, like how what you're gonna become, and they're all in rooting for that, and they're supporting you. I don't care what type of figure you want to describe as a father. Your mother can have fatherly figure. Absolutely. You know, you already know growing up with a mother, man. She gonna, she uh she would have whooped you too. You know, oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we are back. So, Christian, you obviously introduced yourself earlier and you said one thing I really took note of, man, it sounded like your home was structured. You know what I mean? Like everybody had a gender role for themselves, the father, breadwinner, you know, mother, brat maker. You know, sound like they obviously play both roles

Trill’s Brother As Father Figure

SPEAKER_03 6:41

well within the household. And you also said you went to Princeton for your master's and Howard for your undergrad. Yes, you think. Let's talk about it. So, with that type of experience being from Howard, you know, that's a HBCU. Number one, I give them their commodity. But I ain't nothing like that, that's that you don't even know. But, anyways, talk about that. Like, did anybody look at you as privileged in your family?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

I was saying my parents promoted. My mom went to AT. She didn't graduate, she went there for one year. I mean, my dad, he went to GSU. Uh George State University, yeah, George State University. Make that clear.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

State not subject? No, I ain't gonna talk about it. Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

But I feel like in terms of like my dad, he was just very like integral in terms of like my study habits and how um I struggled for class. I remember even as young as 10 years old, I was having problems in math, and he grounded me because he I didn't bring home a textbook. And so that was it was like a whole like weekend or week where I just, you know, couldn't watch TV or do like that because education was so important for him, very important for him. And so I feel like I by following his example and you know trying to really like you know appease my parents because an older child of a younger brother, so you know, I had also to be like an example, not a father figure, but be an example in the house. And so I basically whether my parents did, I kind of I followed through with it. So even to the I mean they didn't like emphasize HBCUs until I became interested, until we really when we like toured Morehouse, and that's when he like became very interested and very like gun-ko about, you know, going to HCU. Um our church is also very big on that. My church is very Afrocentric. So we have a lot of like doctors and lawyers who started out at HBCUs and then were able to go on to you know PWIs and have these successful careers. And so I feel like with like having that type of structure, you know, allowed me to if not allowed me, but also like kind of forced me to like be in school, study a lot more because the approval rating was like in the household was like, you know, A's or nothing.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

So did you get so like did you have any type of like people around you that may have like looked at you as privileged before or maybe called you like the golden child or say like, you know, you had both your father and you know, mother, you successful, you know, try to throw that in your face or anything like that, or not the sound like no, I it might have been that I don't really recall that happening in high school.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

It might have been more in college, just because like there were some things that my friends had to do that I didn't have to experience, or even still don't experience like in terms of like paying a phone bill, like even in college I didn't have to pay a phone bill, or a few of my friends had to, and they kind of like talked about that in terms of privilege. I didn't realize that because like we had a family plan, my dad parents were still paying our phone, but that dad was a thing I had to pay until like now. Like so, so that was that could be one thing. But generally, no, like having I guess I grew up in a very suburban heavy area, so everyone I knew had like a it was it was it was normal to see a dad in a family. Well, I I didn't really know any of my parents who didn't have a dad in the family, generally.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. You just said it right there. So, you know, the environment as well, too, being surrounded by, you know, how society is broken up, right? You got the higher class, you got middle class, low class. What would you consider yourself? Like high class.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Probably just solid middle class.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Okay, middle class, and you know, you know you're doing well, you're wealthy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right. We all we you know, you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

We took like one trip a year. So you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Okay, that's respected though, for real. Because I ain't know the difference between Disney World or Disneyland. I just found that out this year.

Normalizing Different Father Figures

SPEAKER_03 10:29

I've never been in Disney World.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

That's funny. You know, Disney World was a trip we took every year during like, well, my birthday's on April 8th, and Spring Break for Green Connie Schools is around that time. So since like I was five up to maybe I was 13 Spring Break, it was Disney World.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Y'all been you've been to Disney World?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Since one time.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

But for me, I had a childhood attachment to Disney. That's why I like Disney to Disney.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

I was a yeah, I was more for Cartoon Network kind of soon. I know I liked all of them.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

But Disney, because I went to Disney all the time, you know, I like Disney.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

It's just Cartoon Network was uh the go-to.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

All that come on. That was that was the topic right there.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Nickelodeon is canceled right now. It was crazy. But that's another topic for another day. I don't think I want to talk about that anyway. But, anyways, Trill, right? Tell us how, you know, growing up, your brother being the fatherly figure, your father wasn't really around, your mother obviously worked the job as well. Who took the responsibility, you know, when mom wasn't at home? Or, you know, was it ever a time that you had to pretty much like step up and be the leader of the household? Don't answer that door for nobody. When you answer the phone, don't even ask the phone, don't even look at the phone.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

So I didn't have to do any of that. Uh so um, I mean, up until like I was in high school and whatnot, but majority of the time my brother pretty much, you know, taught me what it is to, you know, do right and wrong. You know, my brother lived a certain lifestyle, and he also kind of taught me, he had to grow up really fast. So, because there was no father figure in the household, so he had to grow up really fast and he had to like learn how to get money. And so he lived a certain lifestyle, and he basically told me to not go anywhere near that lifestyle. And so he taught me like what to do, stick to this, you know. Like I was really good at football, so like, hey, stick to football. Don't this is what I gotta do, because you know, this is my my role right now. And you know, he ended up, you know, he's he's a barber now, he's a successful barber, and like he's doing really well for himself. So growing up to your brother, man. Yeah, shout out to my dog, man, sauce doctor.

Christian’s Structured Home And HBCU Path

SPEAKER_04 12:40

And so growing up, it really was just him kind of taking that that lead role in the home and kind of molding me into the man that I am today. I gotta give him a lot of credit. I mean, my mom played a huge role too, but he's the male figure that I saw, you know. Um I did there were points in time in my life where I wanted to be, you know, a part of the lifestyle that he was in, because it looked cool, you know what I mean? But at the end of the day, like I'm so happy, happy that he told me not to go that way and to go the right way and do it and do everything as best as I can, you know, and put my best foot forward to do everything the correct way.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Absolutely. Man, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that, man. Yeah, another shout out, man, for your brother. Shout out to the brother, man. Like, hey, the older brothers, they the OGs, man. You gotta you look at them as far as like what they're experiencing, you take it as like, okay, I don't not gonna experience that. Like, let me check that off the list. No, for not to do, you know, like I don't know what he's doing, but I ain't gonna do it. But it's like they're leading by example, too. So I always observe what my older brother did. Shout out to X Men. We have, you know, that's my brother man, my OG, man. My brother, he's uh actually two years apart from me. How old is your brother?

SPEAKER_04 13:52

Oh, he's seven years apart.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Oh, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:55

You got a lot of experience that I got to watch, you know, from afar.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Oh, yeah, that's great. That's great, man. And those older brothers, their mentors, man. It's just a whole lot of like basically things that a father would tell you. You literally just described everything that pretty much my father told me or like told me, like, you know, not to follow a path. You know, he gave you that advice. You know, you got the privilege, the privilege to see him live and live that lifestyle. You know, he he was doing it for a purpose. For sure, yeah. You know, that's success right there, man. Like, that's that's the growing up with a male or fatherly figure in the household. That's your brother, man. You know.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

So still my father figure to this day.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Hey, okay.

unknown 14:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Man, shout out to the brothers, man. Shout out to the brothers, man. Real talk. Anyways, so everybody shared their experiences with how their households are structured. Let's get into the needy greedy. But before we do that, ladies and gentlemen, we are gonna go to a short break. Shout out to True TV. Welcome back, welcome back. True TV. I am your host, Rico Jones. And we have our three guests. So, let's talk about it more. Christian, you're on the hot seat. All right. So you did say that you, you said that you were middle class, high class, like in between.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

I say middle, more. We took trips, but I get I would say middle class.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Okay, okay, okay, okay. Sounds great. Sounds great, right? So you know there's levels to that too. You know, you the type, you know, oh man, they empowered my, you know, not empowered your car, but oh man, my car just went down. The transmission got to be fixed. Oh, nowhere, you can take the Billy in the garage. Go ahead, Christian, take it for a spin. Right? So was that type of info, uh, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Oh, I mean we talk about it. Well, I didn't really drive in high school, so that's kind of one thing. It wasn't anything like we we if we wanted, we we had it basically. Not saying we well, if we needed it, it was provided for us. But you know, my mom, she's I won't, she she's very frugal. I would say that. She's very, very frugal, so she's not spending her money on anything outside of like, you know, food clothes, essentials. But she was spending on her stuff. But my my dad, I mean, he he he again he was getting more the essentials, but like, you know, like I say, we would take trips at least once a year. One trip we would take us to Disney World. And I think that's one thing I took at least from five up to about 13. At least

Privilege, Class, And Perception

SPEAKER_01 16:43

at the back of my mind, when I, because I guess I was like 12, yeah, 12 or 10, 10, 11, 12, I understood what it meant, but like I didn't know what would happen if it didn't, if he did lose his job. But you know, I didn't understand, at least like having two parents in the house. It was like you, you, they both worked, and you know, with one didn't, it would it would things would be more tight.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Absolutely. And think about that, right, Christian. I mean, think about Trill, right? He grew up in a household, his dad wasn't even active or present. His brother was a you know figure for him, but he was doing his own thing. He had to get how he lived, basically. You feel me? And you think about that, his mother, am I correct? She had to work a majority of the time, right? You just said your dad had the possibility of being laid off. First of all, your dad is at the house. Think about this, right? How do you feel personally about Christian's situation? He had both of his parents in the household. His dad could have lost a job, but his mom had a job, right? It was still a source of income. It was that both, you know, we don't have a 50-50 conversation, which I hate those so much. That's what I'm talking about, you know. But, anyways, we don't have those conversations accurately realistic to our lives at the times, right? We don't never have those conversations about how both parents had to contribute to paying the bills, getting food, getting things that you wanted, getting things they wanted, paying, you know, cars go down. I don't know if that happened with my dad or my mom. Maybe I didn't pay too much attention to it, but the minute you think you got you some money, you done paid your rent, you know, you got a little pocket change to play around with, you know, oh damn, I got about, you know, I got something to play around with in my account. And here come your car, right? Like Caputin, right? Tire going flat, spark plugs. I'll be diagnosing people's cars, right? I'll be like, hey, yo, does it seem like you're, you know, your uh your RPM going up, or you know, every time you press on an accelerator, it doesn't really feel like it wants to accelerate past 20 miles per hour? Yeah. Sounds like spark plugs to me, buddy. You need a tune up, right? So, and I mean it's crazy that you have to experience those things for yourself, but it's just like, think about that, right? Your mom and your dad collectively work together for your household to build you, to keep you in Princeton and Howard. Where'd you go to college if you went to college?

SPEAKER_04 19:17

I went to Balos State.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Huge difference.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Shout out to the SU shout out to the Blazers, go Blazers.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Anyway, um right, right, right, right, right. But, anyways, think about that differential environment. What can you say about him? Like the situation he's in. What would you what would you call that, like, in your perspective? You know how people say, oh, he's privileged, or he was, what would you say, wealthy, or he had the opportunities? Do you see any type of difference between you and him as far as with the upbringing or like that point of view? What if your dad was in the household? What what would you say your household would look like? Would your dad would your brother would have, you know, shout out your brother, man? Shout out to OG. When he'd been like chasing that lifestyle that he was doing, if your dad was present and he could have did something else. Was your brother good at football, right? So it's a lot of things to talk about right there.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

I mean, for his situation, I would say that I think having two parents in a household in general is an advantage. And the reason why I say it's an advantage is because you get a chance to see, for one, one thing that I didn't grow up with that I feel like when you're when you have your parents in a healthy relationship your whole life, you get for one, get a chance to see real love. Like you actually see real love. They're not arguing, shouting at each other, you know, they're communicating well. I didn't get a chance to see that. I don't I didn't know what love really looked like, you know, except for movies and stuff. So that's an advantage, you know. The financial thing, of course, like having two incomes is always gonna be great, you know, no matter what it is. I think, I think for me, in my situation now, I get a chance to see like what it is to have two incomes and how much easier it is kind of to navigate through life with having two incomes. So I would say it's just it's just an advantage, you know, growing up to be able to not have to see your mom struggle, you know. Like my mom legit sat me down and taught me really like what it is to struggle. Because for a long time I really didn't know. I mean, I felt it because I could see like my friends getting certain things, and I can't get it at all. Like, not even a question, not even a thought in my mind. Like, I I know I can't get that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 21:31

So, like that's great. The key word there that you use, and thank you for sharing that as well, too, Trill. A lot to uncover there, right? So he said, advantages. Advantages gives you opportunities, opportunities give you right, purpose, like, right? So you had the advantage of having two parents in the household. He knows how that outcome looks like. He just literally just described your household, right? Whole structure.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Structure was similar, yeah. In terms of it wasn't all hunky-dory.

Environment, Disney Trips, And Culture

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Right, right, right, right. But listen, in that context, I'm sorry, in that context, he used the word struggle. He didn't say, you know, oh, we had to get it out, you know. People say get it out the mind as far as like slaying to understand that, but now you're speaking my language. But anyways, uh, you know, somebody that may have, let's just use the context of poor, right? Being poor is a mindset, it is not a reality. There are some people in these viewers who may have been walking around unemployed for months, years, right? But they're still making a way and they're struggling. It's just a struggle. But God gets us to struggle, though. It's never a struggle, it's always experiences, it's always a path that you gotta walk down, right? Right? So, and this is being black in general. Think about that, right? And I say that in context, Christian, I gotta say this again about you, right? Your dad could have lost his job, but he still had a job. He did it. He did it. Right? So, you on the high seat.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Well, I want you to say, you're gonna tell us what we need to hear, right? So as far as with your father is being active, he's active, right? You said that he stayed just for 400 yards, 400 meters, like 0.4 miles. 0.4 miles, he knows the mallets by points, right? 0.4 miles. Calculation two minutes walk, three minute walk, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:57

15 minutes if you're slow.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

15 if you slow. Okay. I'll take that. So as far as with you having that access to your father, did when did your mom struggle?

unknown 24:12

Right?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

We're gonna use the word struggle in the household without your father being there, and also at his household, how did things look for him?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Was he struggling or was he like you struggling with way, like mentally, physically, financially?

SPEAKER_03 24:25

For all figures of life. Yes, sometimes. Sometimes. What about your mom?

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Yeah, sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

So sometimes, all right, I'll take that.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

It depends like situations. This is like different years. I mean, I don't really consider myself poor, rich, or middle class. I call myself hood rich.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Hood rich, that's a that's a bar, though, for real. There is a certain like position of standing that you have in your environments, right? We could say you left the Pope, right? Come from Savannah. They take me out of the Pope, but they can't take the Pope out of me.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah, that's true. I wanted to look for Roger Wood when I was in California. They ain't had it. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Dang. Dang, I didn't know that. That's crazy. I didn't know that. You see the difference between that, bro. Like, that's that's the

Roles At Home: Who Leads And When

SPEAKER_03 25:20

whole context of your environment, of your perspective, of your environment, what you're upbringing versus Christians and Trill. That's that's the whole that's the whole aspect, right there.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

I got like a combination of what they had going on. Like, because I can see my parents' divorce is way better than their marriage. If you skip like the first 10 years of the divorce, but definitely they they divorce is like couple goals in a way.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Did they see each other like uh on a consistent basis?

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Like, you know, sometimes when they didn't need to.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we're gonna leave it right there. I know how what that looks like.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

But most of the time it was okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Okay, okay, I'll take that as well, too. But you obviously see there were there was a part of his struggle, right? Like having to be brought up in that environment. Like you just touched on a point, you said, you know, having both families in the household, healthy relationships, they're not arguing, slapping each other between the washing, drying, and all this stuff, and getting choked, you know, and all this craziness, then going back and, you know, tossing your clothes out the house, get choked, get out, you know, throwing your stuff outside just to be back together, you know. It's so much to uncover there, man. And sometimes it doesn't even matter what your social standing with your household is, you can have it all and still have go through those struggles. For sure. So the next episode we're gonna have on here would be somebody that may have grew up wealthy, but his situation at home was just a tad bit complex, and you would say that his struggles actually limited him in certain aspects, right? Because he's rich. I gotta say that again. A rich kid talking about how his mom and dad was struggling. You said hood rich, right? Yeah, hood rich. It's a specific type of hood rich, so you basically got it to where you were in a white neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

I was in no white neighborhood. Oh, that's why I said hood rich.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

I was in a white neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Yeah. Okay. I grew up an all-black neighborhood. It's like, imagine you take a drop of the hood, a drop of the country, and just kind of blend it up together. You get the best parts of it. Yeah. But Savannah is a small town, so you get like a small town vibe. Yeah. And like you don't know stuff is going on unless you live there.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

But that's facts. Like, they don't know, understand the crime rate in Savannah was pretty it was pretty bad, man. Like, I was out there. So it always came up. But thank God I was covering you as well, too, man, your family, bro. So, anyways, that in that context with being hood rich, right? You obviously in your environment had a different upbringing than everybody, even though you were from the same place as them.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

All my parents' kids came from each other.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Like, and you how many, wait, how many brothers and sisters you have?

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Um, I got one brother, one sister.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Okay, all three of y'all. Well, y'all see that? It's only three of them, and they saying that. I'm thinking he's about to say, oh, it's like five, six. I know, but you know, some people say, Oh, well, me and my I got like five brothers and sisters from my daddy's side. Absolutely. I know exactly what you mean by that.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

See, when you mentioned that, that be that wasn't a thing I realized was like, I guess, a benefit until I was either in college, really in college, when someone said, Oh, yeah, you got both your parents in the house. So you get you got all uh all from the same two parents. I was like, Yeah, but brother, I'll continue to go like no different. I'm like, no, I'm like, you lucky. I'm like, lucky out. You see that criticism.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

I talked about that earlier. I said, was there ever a time somebody was like jealous and like you got both of the parents in the household, and you know, your privilege? That just sparked the memory.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

It came more at Howard, because at Howard you have basically everybody. You have people who, you know, go got it from the mud, maybe even like formerly incalculated or whatever, or we just, you know, impoverished, but you also gave it the really wealthy there too. So you have all like socioeconomic class of black life experiences at Howard. So it's like you're gonna see for some people gonna be um a little jealous of you because of like where you grew up in as opposed to other people. So it's just like that's I I didn't ever experience those types of comments until I got to college and like after like you know, getting out of my area, because like most of them, like even like growing up, most of my friends were white and Asian, like they had the parents in the household. So like I was even like my my parents who they had black friends. I just when I was growing up, I was in the band, I was a nerd, so like that's who I was around. But like my parents, even the black we hung up with a lot of black families, and they had, you know, black fathers there too. So that's why I never really experienced, you know, people not having a mother and father in the household, because that's what I knew, and that's what's on TV. So the that's golden man like that's that's literally like it gets in it the the weeds of how that perspective is growing up into

Two Incomes, Advantage, And Struggle

SPEAKER_01 30:15

married you know mom and dad households man like it it really gets into the weeds of how are things going like everybody has a curiosity and also they're standing they're stating what they think they know right you you got two parents you're obviously successful but they're not speaking from an aspect of them understanding you get what I'm saying it wasn't for you to know your feelings right like it wasn't for you to know it's for you to understand it so just because you had two parents in a household doesn't mean you experienced struggle no not at all you know what I mean you went through your own story and then like for somebody to say criticize criticize you this guy you know don't say man don't say don't say that yeah yeah yeah but anyways I I'll put both of y'all in the hot seat though you feel me but anyways you don't got nothing to do with this he kind of like the mediator like I've been through both of y'all situations my name is Ben and Ain't in it you feel me at the same time I'm I'm around I mean it's very possible I could have been him honestly somewhat possible they just stuck it out I guess so could you never see yourself being like if based off your situation in your household you said you could see yourself being um Centel Yeah because like I said growing up my parents they modeled for me like what I would want to do differently in a relationship because I felt like my mom and dad they're very headstrong my dad was the only child he so my dad's actually an example of well he had a father in the household but it wasn't his biological father he had uh my my papa stand to this day you know still alive but he he basically my dad because my dad's my biological grandfather he was older than my grandmother because you know it was it was it was the 60s and you know all that so that that so my talk about my aunt my aunt she also lived in Savannah too she's my half aunt because you know he also had a child's turn out but but essentially like that's my that's my maternal grandfather maternal grandfather stuff maternal grandfather that's that that that's generations but in terms of like growing up like my guest my dad he was more old school in terms of like how to do things and my mom she she also had two parent household so she knew she already had a father in the house so she knew what you know structure and everything so she had an idea of what the man should do in the house while my father had some just different views and so they but ahead a lot going up it was a lot of times where like there were like starting matches when I was younger even you know MF3 yada yada all that just and that I I you know for me as a child you know it's like are they gonna break up like is it gonna be a point where they you know is this the argument that they really basically because it wasn't like they would get into like these really like big fistic hooks like fighting fights and whatnot or like arguments but it was just like you know it'd be the yelling it'd be like the throwing stuff it'd be like just the tiny things you just you're just like like and you then you feel as a child taking sides so you know for the longest time I didn't like my dad because not because I didn't you know he was more the enforcer of things and everything but it was just like you know I like my mom more and that's just kind of what with how it you know the we crumbled but you know as we got older we kind of saw I I saw them kind of dedicated themselves more they worked together they things that they in the past might have like you know blew up about their the you know trying to be more standing more and they even mentioned you know them going to marriage counseling so they can really make it work so that's like one thing from growing up you know when I was younger thinking like okay could it just be the argument that you know breaks it tends to see now how they you know make our making a choice to stay together and like our just trying to work through it and everything. And I mean now of course like it's not our home you know the amazing you know marriage but like they've been together and they stay together and I don't I don't see them really breaking up so let's just say this and that was great.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Thank you for sharing that with us Christian matter of fact man let me give a round got something to say man let's talk about it you said and I quote that you could have been Centel based off your situation with your father and you said that his viewpoints was different from your mother because she felt like she grew up in a two parent household and your grandfather at the time was provider he was either provider he paid all the bills let's stop right there take that thought so your mother had a different point of view with how the household should be going right and your father you said he had his own viewpoints I know what I know I know what those viewpoints are and it means like everybody played the role they that fit them at that time I can play all positions in the NBA you feel me point guard shooting guard small forward power forward center dropping over 30 shout out to LeBron I think he probably yeah I think he did scratch all 30 for all 30 points in all of this positions if I'm not mistaken we can factor check that but anyways I'm I'm I'm a LeBron fan I respect I respect his legacy and his hard work you know I respect his legacy and hard work but I'm not like about to glaze you know anybody around here I that's the term that they use nowadays when you give no two much credit but anyways back to the nitty gritty right your father believed in both parents taking charge whenever set the you know set fit for the you know opposite right your dad struggles your mom steps in your dad got it if your mom is struggling right think about that in that context though

Divorce, Love, And What Kids See

SPEAKER_03 36:20

like your dad obviously believed in a household that should be run 100% on both ends while your mom believed in like 50 you know you you you take more you supposed to be taking control so it's it's a hundred percent but that can look different though like your mom's spending was she like flashy like this and then you said y'all go to digital every once time that's cool that sound like your dad was pretty much like he knew within his let's say budget and keep that good like in business terms in regards to what he can and can't do with you guys during that time because of obviously the the money was there ever a time that your mom had to step in to pay for something and had a problem with it or like you know did she assist your father you know in certain things like or did your dad have to take what he had and make it work because that was you know how women say what's mine is mine is what's yours is mine.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Right was that the type of when I was talking about more the roles I was more like my daddy in terms of like traditional gender roles like the woman just cooks clean you speaks to her children things of that nature but the thing is my mom also worked and so let's stop right there because I'm you're hot school daddy used to clean up the house now when I was younger no laundry no cooking no when I was younger like now maybe a little different a little bit but like nah like it was and that's what my mom hated like I think not just hated but also like that was a biggest point of attention for them she was like I need help like raising the kids I work too and I still gotta do all these tasks when I come home like I just want some division of labor and my dad from the countryside because he grew up in South Georgia Middle Georgia more but and outside of Augusta he was more like well the woman does that and I I just work and I come home.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

So I think that was like a big thing that they had when I was growing up but I think that that definitely has changed you know my mom may still do more of the housework but you know my dad he he definitely does he do his part too so his part his housework everything that you just said thank you for dropping that gym man because now I gotta get on you gotta grill you in a hot seat man gotta grill you in a hot seat trill my good brother your brother right and your mom did your house like this is I guess you could say this is a personal question but I I'll tell you too but anyways did your was your house always like clean like when your mom came home from work or I mean me and my brother definitely took care of the house you know I mean when she when she wasn't there I mean first of all my brother was still her child so like just keep that you know my mom definitely was a parent in the household my brother just kind of like stepped in when she needed help or like you know when she wasn't around like she's at work and maybe like it's summertime and we're out for school just making sure that I'm doing the right things but like yeah for sure the house was definitely clean man you know definitely did you know except for like when she asked me to take chicken you know I mean I might like forgot to do that you know I mean but other than that you know I mean that's a reference yeah yeah yeah so Christian and thank you for sharing that trio Christian trill trill Christian right y'all see the differential how that plays in the household differently and what perspective looks like and assumptions and all that right you got the two parent household you grew up perfect they didn't argue they didn't fight you got everything that you wanted all the bright lights all the stuff at Christmas gifts stacked all the way up to the ceiling right and mine is just like a little envelope like this is all this is all Christians and you guys we got you the these you know coupons like you know I mean like what you getting with a pair of pants blue jeans I already got this shade of blue socks right socks then they don't get you no Nike tech socks they get you the big long oh my god this is not Nike like that's that's but you see what I'm saying perspective for sure perspective yeah his brother cleaned up played the role like right the gender role of a male figure of a father he told him that advice things like that right your father was active and he was present and y'all still had issues and the house was not clean the house was clean the house was clean just wasn't clean by him well he did clean it he's a clean freak I I will say that he he's a clean freak but in terms of like I guess cooking and the washing the dishes and laundry that was my mom but he's a clean freak he definitely was clean

Gender Roles And Division Of Labor

SPEAKER_04 41:20

so did was the house clean to the standard of your father and your mother just didn't like the way he cleaned she wanted it in her own way well my father's also very much a minimalist so he doesn't want anything like he just like wants things to be as like minimal as possible he wants to doesn't want any junk around so it's not up to his standards but it is clean though.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Everything has to have a place and I understand that too so but you know he he if he if he complains he may not back in those times he may not have done anything about it. He just like we're just okay whatever but but yeah he just doesn't like anything like if it if it doesn't uh go along with the theme with the decor the decorations he wants it out basically and that's like not having anything in the house basically did Jamal have a problem with that? I mean he didn't it wasn't the issue really he if he wanted the vacuum he did but he didn't really like well actually he would move stuff and I would anger her a little bit because it's like where are you putting stuff at because you know that's also my house too and that's also thing too he would do things on his own because he was the only child so it was like he didn't have to um listen to anybody or like you know he didn't have to like basically you know having me having a younger brother had to like you know talk to him about things and you know share things. Yeah so you have to you have to like adhere to someone else's rules essentially so I guess he kind of came into the marriage with that you know doing things on his terms and not on like a couple's terms.

SPEAKER_04 42:45

But you know they they're working to that that's a lot of to to actually think about and we are back this is true TV and I am your host Rico Jones and today's topic as we know growing up in the household without a black or bodily male figure right so we got different viewpoints Christians and trails but remember I told y'all y'all met in the middle right everybody's in the middle right here everybody's just like you know oh who are you what what do you do who are you you know you look like those Spider Man so they point at each other right right right so I want to ask each of you which household or perspective that you would rather have you know lived uh Christians or Centels I have to pick or yes you have to pick between both of them and also answer why personally personally I really wouldn't wouldn't change my upbringing taught me a lot that's just personal learned a lot of things from my brother from my mom the whole gender gender role thing I never like even thought about that till I that became a hot topic on social media you know I mean because my mom played both roles my brother kind of you know played a role so but if I have to pick I'm not gonna lie man it sounds like Centel had a pretty good good upbringing I'm not gonna lie you know I'm not saying like I wouldn't pick Christians either but I don't know I feel like upbringing wise I feel like I just relate more maybe because he's been Savannah but like but like upbringing wise I feel like he had a really good you know childhood I don't think the the divorce was really from my from my perspective what you said I don't think the divorce was like super crazy terrible something like they ended on good terms and they just you know chose like this isn't for us we should go our own way yeah that's great right thank you for sharing that perspective so you would go with sentence I know sound crazy right wow Christian we got something to talk about sir mommy and your daddy why didn't you choose his you know lifestyle even though you said it grew up with all this you know you said we had struggles and that was like you know sort of an advantage right use the word advantage to describe that but why do you go with this advantage what what was I mean again it's not really like I wouldn't choose a two parent household just personally in my upbringing and my whole mindset like I don't know it's kind of to me it's kind of just for me to even think like growing up in a two parent household is like far it's far fetched in my mind and my in my upbringing and what I learned and growing

Cleanliness, Minimalism, And Control

SPEAKER_04 46:00

up for me to grow up for me to choose to like redo everything in my life I don't know you know like I don't know how I would feel you know first of all my mom I never saw my mom date anybody she probably did I just never saw her do that she kept she kept her you know to herself you know I mean so I never saw that I couldn't imagine like me hearing my mom getting yelled at by a man like what you know I'll be set off you know I mean so like so it'd be so like seeing that from his perspective like of course no no relationship is just like perfect you know I mean but at the same time I just feel like yeah that's cool but again I don't know maybe it's because me and him have a a commonality of living living in Savannah maybe I don't know but like living rich is rich kind of kinda you know not really I can't say I can't I can't I'm not gonna lie my upbringing I can't even relate the word rich to anything to my upbringing but I think that mindset wise I think both of these guys have an amazing perspective on life just personally I kind of lean towards his style of living because just having a two-parent household is just so far fetched to me in my mind. I don't know why it sounds amazing you know to have two parents two incomes you know to see again to see a relationship go through its highs and lows like first person you don't have to look outside of your house for that type of stuff you know you can ask your dad for advice and stuff like that. That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

But like he could too you know in his situation he got a chance to see the relationship you know kind of again high and low and then they they actually had a a common understanding like hey this might not be for us so he got a chance to see okay this is what it is to have a healthy breakup too you know I mean and so like you when you went through seeing your parents argue but like you was like dang I don't know if they're gonna break up or not you know and you kind of had to keep seeing that over and over again until you got older but like he saw that same thing but he also saw them like you know what I think it's just better off if we just you know cut it off so I don't know maybe I just I just related to that more like now Christian Christian Christian Christian you are seeing right now you grew up with both parents in the household and you're hearing what you know Trill got to say about your situation he can't even have both of his parents in the household I ain't no right anyway you grew up in that environment with both of your parents in the household how do you feel about both of their perspectives and if if so which perspective you would have mostly dealt with strongly if that makes sense what would have affected you because he mentioned he mentioned the trauma and he mentioned being at peace with his traumas which of the two you would rather which one of the two would have bothered you like really affected you let's say that right based off his situation of not having

Choosing A Childhood: Which Would You Pick

SPEAKER_03 49:30

his father and his mother in the household and based off his situation of them being divorced living point 0.4 miles away from the house 0.4 miles away from the house and if you walk slow 15 minutes yeah I don't know how fast he didn't know how fast it took you how long it took you to get home I was a little chubby so it took me about 15 minutes. Oh okay he knew it because he had to go through it I respect that brother anyways which one of these you know situations would would have been more traumatic for you to have traumatic yeah really held like a like a burden on you man like something that's like I told y'all to really think about and hone in on things that and traumas that you had to deal with that you probably didn't heal from today and I really advocate for that I hope everybody heals from dramas that they're still facing today. So which one of these would have obviously got you to the point where it would have affected you the most so I think it depends on the age.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

So for Centel's situation you was much younger. So if I was a baby my parents had divorced I don't think it would be much of an issue because it's like okay I just this is what I know in terms of me like coming to consciousness and coming to like a realization like oh my dad's here my was here.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

How old were you gotcha?

SPEAKER_02 50:44

I was about three but I see why they got divorced but it was worth it.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

Okay. So did they get divorced while you were three like around two or three definitions. Let me ask you this person you don't gotta ask the question 28 28 28 years so 25 years of divorce did you ever ask why?

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Oh yeah I asked why what age really I knew why because I seen it I seen the event what made them get a divorce but I asked them like when y'all just stopped loving each other and I got the same story from both of them like it's like imagine you asked them both the same question got the exact same answer but you got the masculine feminine version of that. So I asked my mom I said like when you realize you ain't loving no more she said it all started when you went to that barber shop and such such I said okay and I let her dance my pa I said when you realize your mom ain't love each other. It started when he went she went to that beauty shop and I told and then he told me like the exact same story mirrored each other. I like Did y'all rehearse this and it's so crazy. It's just like y'all bring out the worst and best in each other and it's just like I don't know if y'all supposed to be divorced or supposed to be married still and it's so weird but they they divorced it's like Jeff Kiss that marriage was just what's the best describe what that best part looks like like what is your okay so at best like they are good at working together so when they got something they need to handle like they tag team partners and they got that together. But when it's them versus each other it's like game of strong type shit. We so stuff she like oh you know like see the battle cry too like I learned war tactics from they divorced like like I learned war tactics from them just because when it was like them versus them it's bloody battle but them on the same time they nothing they couldn't do when they was together like unstoppable force you been in the trenches he said I learned war skills based off them did you say that you know their war tactics you know based off how they used to feud with one another so everybody has their different perspectives on how those foods look and everything and I like to share this as a vulnerable moment for myself I bet y'all curious like what does this guy do?

SPEAKER_03 53:12

You got everybody else's business talking about what we experience and all this stuff you got a lot to say let's put you in the hot seat I ain't say no we get your father we cut that was hard but I grew up with both of my parents in the household they were married for over 25 26 27 years right growing up as a child my dad was there I seen him I was a daddy's boy right dad's boy father's boy whatever you want to call it I shaved my hair bald just like his I want to play basketball just like him you know a strong black man to look up to for me leadership right my mother I love my mother she's very nurturing man my mother she got when I talk about like how you say hood rich and then you say you know advantages advantages

Trauma, Healing, And Identity

SPEAKER_03 54:04

and struggles then you say well I already have both my mothers and you know father in the household cut it short too much you ain't really get too much details on that you don't do that when you meet people I know you don't boy you don't just be like oh yeah my mother and father they have issues and like you know they have like divorce issues whatever you don't spell all them but you just be like look my name is Christian I grew up in so-and-so-and-so right respect to where you grew up I ain't when you say that but anyways I grew up here and here my dad and my mom stayed in the same parent household I went to uh Howard for my bachelor's in Princeton for my master's you know like it's all it's all laid out but it's like you don't know how it took to get here you don't know what it took you don't know what I've been through right he got both his parents an experience in that you chose his lifestyle he has both his parents but they were divorced you chose his lifestyle too right I mean I didn't I was more explaining it and I was talking about it I was saying like at least if I was younger yes his if I was older like say middle school with my parents divorced I think that will have uh a greater impact on me just because I felt you know at that point it's like okay is it me you know as a child like is it me causing issues or whatever but if I was younger then yeah but in if any case I I would probably lean towards at least having a dad there outside of not just because like it's like it's a whole it's a whole different like family like it's like having that other father is like you understand as you get older while you do the things you do like a lot of things I do I'm I understand like okay that I yes you have your environment you have your friends you have your you know people you up around but it's also like your parents are very and how you know and how when they get together and you're born you know you have things called genes and glomer zones and so you see how those things play out when you get older and I can understand a lot by just knowing who my father is and like how he does things.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Like I'm I I see as I get older I'm becoming not like a neat freak but I am very neat and I come from him. I understand that like the way I approach conversations like whenever someone asks me a question I may be very short in terms of my answer but that's only because my dad is also the same way and I I know that because I see him that's you know the way he answers questions how my mom hates it because she wants you know more details and I'm like I don't want to get no more details and then that's how he does it. So I feel like that's why having a dad is I will rather have one than not just because like it's good for me to know who I am have that family background and foundation so that I can go forward in life knowing okay this is I get this from him I get that from her you know so that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_03 56:55

Call the fire call it call an ambulance right now call emblems I would be traumatized having a male figure in the household is that same feeling of structure of organization your dad had to adjust to his cleaning methods and also being able to help out during the house I know you stated that your dad had his own damn house since he was three. Didn't care if he got dirty or not but y'all know he cleaned it you know shout out to your dad even with your mom but they don't care right there's it's their house since you were three his household they cleaned up they helped their mom they were present they were active everything has a structure no matter what situation that you're living with in your life as a black male as a black man as a African we can edit this in there but having that type of structure regardless of your situation your household matters. Whoever's playing the male figure or a black male figure you play that specific role and sometimes we got both genders playing whatever role whatever position they can fit the criteria to make sure they dominate right make sure they are very dominant and have some impact in your life but overall I want to say first of all thank you to you three gentlemen I feel like everybody deserves a round of applause here for them share their thoughts on their families and what their perspectives were and I it was an honor for me hearing them but just to let you know like you know back to me I experienced me having both my family you know my parents in the household they went through struggles my dad you know cheated you know typical things that a black man would obviously go through in a marriage. My mom divorced him they divorced but you know on paper they still married whatever it's a situation right my situation I grew up with both my parents by the age of 15 detached completely detached from my dad I didn't respect him as a man no more. Once I see how he cheated on my mom I didn't value what he liked too much. I love football but he liked me to play football too because obviously he wants me to get better and blow up in football and stuff but it's like that's what I really wanted to do at that time. But your life doesn't define from somebody else's perspective on how they want you to live theirs and how you how they want you to live your specific life based off of how they view you. You can be different and like things differently you grew up you said a nerd that plays in a band man you're not a nerd that's like like come on like what people in band have said to not be cool like what is that like you you had a craft man like you could teach people that That's cool, man. Like, I wish I did bad. I didn't do bad. You know what I mean? But everybody say, you know, like that perspective. With you as well, playing football at every. They're playing football.

Host’s Story And Final Reflections

SPEAKER_03 1:00:10

You know, you having that type of aspect to where you had a decision on what you really wanted to do growing up. All of that plays hand in hand. With my situation, I had to go back to my mother. From my father, who I looked up to so much and I respected. I had to turn back to my mother. The nurturer. The bread maker. And mothers step into actual positions and play them better than any of a male figure could ever. When you have that mother, right? But look at the situation. Look at how our mothers and fathers grew up. You described how your mother grew up with two parents in the household.

unknown 1:00:50

Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:51

My mom did, eh? I'm gonna just say it like that. My mom did it. My dad. Papa was a rolling stone. Wherever he laid his hat was his home. That was his grandfather, man. Like, you know. No, but I do have, you know, African background, obviously, within me, you know. But that's the standard African man, too, to have many wives. My dad cheated, man. Like, you know, until this day, he doesn't take accountability for that. And here's the cliffhanger, and everybody can leave from their perspective what they want. I have another brother. I have a third brother. Just met him when I was 29. My grandmother passed away. My grandmother, like, from me being born to obviously my age now, I got a chance to experience her. My grandmother knew about it. There was just so many secrets, man.