In His Shadow, In His Absence - Episode 1

What if the person who teaches you to be a man isn’t your father at all? We sit down with three Black men whose lives trace three distinct paths: a home built on structure and steady expectations, a brother who stepped into a father’s shoes, and a father nearby after divorce whose presence still mattered. Together, we unpack how love, labor, and limits shape boys into men—and why presence is more than a name on a birth certificate.

Christian walks us through a household where academics, faith, and community made success feel normal. From textbook rules to church mentors and HBCU pride, he shows how structure compounds into confidence, opportunity, and a durable sense of self. Trill brings a different blueprint: a hardworking mother, an older brother who carried more than his years, and a clear warning to avoid the streets that looked tempting but cost too much. His story also holds the tender difficulty of reconnecting with an absent dad and choosing conversation when the hurt says stay silent. Centel adds nuance to presence after divorce—the small rituals, quick visits, and day-to-day touchpoints that still give a child a map.

Across these stories, we dig into the real meaning of privilege—less about money and more about modeled stability, two incomes, and adults who communicate instead of combust. We also honor the education of struggle and the mentors who protect promise when the blueprint is missing. If you care about Black fatherhood, positive masculinity, co-parenting, HBCUs, and community mentorship, you’ll find practical insight here: how to show up, set standards, and speak life into boys who are watching even when you’re tired.

Listen, share, and join the conversation. If this resonated with your story, subscribe, leave a review, and tag someone who’s been a father figure in your life—who showed up for you when you needed it most?

Transcript

Opening: Theme And Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Behind every man is a shadow, and for some that shadow was never there. This is in his shadow, in his absence. The podcast exploring what it means to grow up with, without, and in spite of a father figure. We uncover the stories that shaped us, the guidance, the gaps, the pain, and the pride, from present fathers and absent ones to brothers, uncles, coaches, and mentors who stepped in andor didn't. This is where we talk about becoming men, even when the blueprint wasn't there. Welcome to In His Shadow, in His Absence.

Framing The Conversation

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to our audience today. We will be having a discussion about black, African American children growing up in a household with and without the male figure. Your father. Right? And that could be your father, your brother, your uncle, and the black community, right? That's how we we we get a lot of discussions, a lot of scrutiny. That's just cutting it straight to the point about this specific topic.

Meet The Guests

SPEAKER_04 1:24

And I have three black men ready to give their perspectives on their households. So, fellas, y'all just tell us about y'all selves and we'll begin with you. Christian, go ahead and tell us about yourself, where you're from, and also whatever you like to let the audience know.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah, hello everybody. My name is Christian Keith. I've been born and raised in Launchville, Georgia, Gwinnett County, Metro Atlanta, all my life. I went to Howard for my undergrad and then went to Princeton for my master's. I had my father in my life all my life, been in the house. I'm an instructor at Georgia Premier College as well.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Wow. That's amazing, man. And now we're gonna have Centel give us your insight and your point of view on your how your household was growing up. What a male figure.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Oh, well, my mother and my father, they were married up until I was like three years old. So he lived with me. I got the experience. I got some memories with him. I remember him putting me in the bed with him and stuff, and his beard was scratching me. And um, after they got a divorce, he moved like 0.4 miles away to my grandmother's house. We all lived in the same neighborhood. And I still saw him every day. And

Centel’s Early Memories And Presence

SPEAKER_02 2:36

he still would come by the house and take naps before he'd come to work. So it was pretty interesting to get that dynamic.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Yeah, that's great, man. That's great. But yeah, that that that definitely sparks a memory when you could think about that, you know, specifically about your father. And we'll definitely elaborate more on that, man. I definitely uh see. So basically, your father was he was present. Not only that, he was actively present. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Did you all play any sports or anything growing up? I played a lot of sports. I did football, soccer, baseball, basketball, believe it or not. And I did karate.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Nice. So, um, Trill. Yes, sir. Tell us, tell the audience about you, man.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Alright, well, I go by Big Trill from the Pope. I'm a music producer from Savannah, Georgia.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

Shout out to you.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Definitely, definitely shout out Savannah State for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. Currently, I'm working on a few businesses, you know, YouTube, uh, social, like being a content creator, things like that. My childhood, my brother was my role model pretty much. He basically raised me when my mom wasn't like there. She worked a lot. And so that was a lot going on. I know for my brother, we've talked a lot growing up, and especially as men now, we definitely talk a lot about how like he had to step in and be a father when he really was a child himself. So that was a lot going on in my childhood. But yeah, that's that's pretty much the gist of what it of what it was at first. And you know, we're gonna go on further further from here.

Trill On Brother As Father

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. Thank you for sharing that, man. Like uh, so with your dad, I may have missed that. You say he used to work a lot? My mom. Your mom used to be a lot. My mom used to work a lot. My dad wasn't around. Oh, okay, okay, okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, it'd be a it's a lot to definitely mentally to take with you throughout your life. And I just want to ask you, uh just one question. Have you met your dad yet? Or yeah, for sure, for sure. A few times.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

We actually, I actually just had probably one of my longest conversations with him on the phone earlier this week, actually. Oh, nice. Um so we do talk here and there, but like it's it took me quite a while to really come around to being okay with talking to my dad. It kind of felt weird when I was growing up, even up until the last few years. I mean, you know, he wasn't around, so it's kind of hard to like invite this quote unquote stranger, you know, into my life, into my phone. So that was a lot for me up until like maybe like earlier this year, when we started talking a little bit more, you know, I actually called him for Father's Day and things like that, you know, just to just to show love, you know. Right, right, right, right. So definitely came a long way, I say, and that in that ring on for sure.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Oh yeah, man, that's man, appreciate you sharing that. Like, you know, people don't understand how everybody's situation is different, nobody's perfect, right? We don't have a perfect family, right? So as long as you have people around you to fit those standards of knowing how you're going to be, you know, growing up, like how what you're gonna become, and they're all in rooting for that, and they're supporting you. I don't care what type of figure you want to describe as a father. Your mother can have

Naming Absence And First Contact

SPEAKER_04 6:02

fatherly figure. Absolutely. You know, you already know growing up with a mother, man. She gonna she she would have whooped you too. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

And we are back. So, Christian, you obviously introduced yourself earlier and you said one thing I really took note of, man, it sounded like your home was structured. You know what I mean? Like everybody had a gender role for themselves, the father, breadwinner, you know, mother, breadmaker. You know, sound like they obviously play both roles well within the household. And you also said you went to Princeton for your master's and Howard for your undergrad. Yes, sir. Let's talk about it. So, with that type of experience being from Howard, you know, that's a HBCU. Number one, I give them their commodity. But I ain't nothing like that, since you don't even know. But, anyways, talk about that. Like, did anybody look at you as privileged in your family?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

I would say my parents promoted. My mom went to ANT. She didn't graduate, she went there for one year. And my dad, he went to GSU. Uh George State University, yeah, George State University. If you want to make that clear, but something?

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Oh, I ain't gonna stop. Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

But I feel like in terms of like my dad, he was just very like integral in terms of like my study habits and how um I struggled for class. I remember even as young as 10 years old, I was having problems in math, and he grounded me because he I didn't bring home a textbook. And so that was it was like a whole like weekend or week where I just, you know, couldn't watch TV or do like that because education was so important for him, very important for him. And so I feel like I by following his example and you know trying to really like you know appease my parents because an older child have a younger brother, so you know, I had also to be like an example, not a father figure, but be an example in the house. And so I basically whatever my parents did, I kind of followed through with it. So even to the, I mean, they didn't like emphasize HBCUs until I became interested, until we really when we like toured Morehouse, and that's when he like became very interested and very like gunko about, you know, going to HBCU. Um our church is also very big on that. My church is very Afrocentric, and so we have a lot of like doctors and lawyers who started out at HBCUs and then were able to go on to you know PWIs and have these successful careers. And so I feel like with like having that type of structure, you know, allowed me to if not allowed me, but also like kind of forced me to like be in school, study a lot more because the approval

Mothers Holding The Line

SPEAKER_01 8:45

rating was like in the house, it was like, you know, A's or nothing.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

So did you get so like did you have any type of like people around you that may have like looked at you as privileged before or maybe called you like the going in child or say like, you know, you had both your father and you know, mother, you successful, you know, try to throw that in your face or anything like that, or not to sound like No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

I it might have been that I don't really recall that happening in high school. It might have been more in college, just because like there were some things that my friends had to do that I didn't have to experience, or even still don't experience like in terms of like paying a phone bill, like even in college I didn't have to pay a phone bill, or

Break And Reset

SPEAKER_01 9:26

a few of my friends had to, and they kind of like talked about that in terms of privilege. I didn't realize that because like we had a family plan, my dad parents were still paying our phone, but that dad was a thing I had to pay until like now. Like, so so that was that could be one thing, but generally, no, like having I guess I grew up in a very suburban heavy area, so everyone I knew had like a it was it is it was normal to see a dad in a family. Well, I I didn't really know any of my parents who didn't have a dad in a family generally.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. You just said it right there.

Christian’s Structured Home And Schooling

SPEAKER_04 10:00

So, you know, the environment as well, too, being surrounded by, you know, how society is broken up, right? You got the higher class, you got middle class, low class. What would you consider yourself? Like higher class? Probably just solidly middle class. Okay, middle class, and you know, you know you're doing well, you're wealthy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right. We all we you know, you gotta.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

We took like one trip a year, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Okay, that's respected though, for real. Because I ain't know the difference between Disney World or Disneyland. I just found that out this year. I've never been to Disney World.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

That's funny. You know, Disney World was a trip we took every year during like, well, my birthday's on April 8th, and spring break for Grant County Schools is around that time. So since like I was five up to maybe I was 13 spring break. It was Disney World.

SPEAKER_04 10:45

Now I've been you've been to Disney World since one time. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

But for me, I had a childhood attachment to Disney. That's why I like Disney to Disney.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

I was a good one. I was more for Cartoon Network kind of soon. I know I liked all of them.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

But Disney, because I went to Disney all the time, you know, I like Disney.

SPEAKER_04 11:02

It's just Cartoon Network was uh the go-to.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

But I do like Cartoon Network, did Nickelodeon, all that. Come on. That was that was the topic right there.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Nickelodeon is canceled right now. It was crazy. But that's another topic for another day. I don't think I want to talk about that anyway. But, anyways, trill, right? Tell us how, you know, growing up, your brother being the fatherly figure, your father wasn't really around, your mother obviously worked the job as well. Who took the responsibility, you know, when mom wasn't at home? Or, you know, was it ever a time that you had to pretty much like step up and be the lead of the household? Don't answer that door for nobody. When you answer the phone, don't even ask the phone, don't even look at the phone.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

So I didn't have to do any of that. Uh so um, I mean, up until like I was in high school and whatnot, but majority of the time my brother pretty much, you know, taught me what it is to, you know, do right and wrong. You know, my brother lived a certain lifestyle, and he also kind of taught me, he had to grow up really fast. So because there was no father figure in the household, so he had to grow up really fast and he had to like learn how to get money. And so he lived a certain lifestyle, and he basically told me to not go anywhere near that lifestyle. And so he taught me like what to do, stick to this, you know, like I was really good at football, so like hey, stick to football. Don't this is what I gotta do, because you know, this is my my role right now. And you know, he ended up, you know, he's he's a barber now, he's a successful barber, and like he's doing really well for himself. So growing up to your brother, man. Yeah, shout out to my dog, man, sauce doctor. And so growing up, it really was just him kind of taking that that lead role in the home and kind of molding me into the man that I am today. I gotta give him a lot of credit. I mean, my mom played a huge role too, but he's the male figure that I saw, you know. Um I did there were points in time in my life where I wanted to be, you know, a part of the lifestyle that he was in, because it looked cool, you know what I mean? But at the end of the day, like I'm so happy, happy that he told me not to go that way and to go the right way and do it and do everything as best as I can, you know, and put my best foot forward to do everything the correct way.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

Absolutely. Man, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that, man. Yeah, another shout out, man, for your brother. Me,

Privilege, Community, And HBCUs

SPEAKER_04 13:20

me, me, meh. Shout out to the brother, man. Like, hey, the older brothers, they the OGs, man. You gotta you look at them as far as like what they're experiencing, you take it as like, okay, I don't not gonna experience that. Like, let me check that off the list. No, for not to do, you know, like I don't know what he's doing, but I ain't gonna do it. But it's like they're leading by example, too. So I always observe what my older brother did. Shout out to X-Men. We have, you know, that's my brother, man, my OG, man. My brother, he's uh actually two years apart from me. How old is your brother?

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Oh, he's seven years apart.

SPEAKER_04 13:53

Oh, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

He got a lot of experience that I got to watch, you know, from afar.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Oh, yeah, that's great. That's great, man. And those older brothers, their mentors, man. It's just a whole lot of like basically things that a father would tell you. You literally just described everything that pretty much my father told me or like told me, like, you know, not to follow a path. You know, he gave you that advice. You know, you got the privilege, the privilege to see him live and live that lifestyle. You know, he was doing it for a purpose. For sure, yeah. You know, that's success right there, man. Like, that's that's the growing up with a male or fatherly figure in the household, that's your brother, man.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

You know, so still my father figure to this day.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

Hey, okay, man. Shout out to the brothers, man. Shout out to the brothers, man. Real talk. Anyways, so everybody shared their experiences with how their households are structured. Let's get into the needy greedy, but before we do that, ladies and gentlemen, we are gonna go to a short break. Shout out to True TV. Welcome back, welcome back. True TV. I am your host, Rico Jones. And we have our three guests. So, let's talk about it more. Christian, you're on the hot seat. All right, so you did say that you, you said that you were middle class, high class, like in between.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

I say middle, more. We took trips, but I get I would say middle class.

SPEAKER_04 15:38

Okay, okay, okay, okay. Sounds great. Sounds great, right, great.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

So you know there's levels to that too.

SPEAKER_04 15:43

You know, you the type, you know, oh man, they empowered my, you know, not empowered your car, but oh man, my car just went down. The transmission got to be fixed. Oh, don't worry, you can take the belly in the garage. Go ahead, Christian, take it for a spin. Right?

SPEAKER_01 15:58

So it was that type of uh, you know, oh I mean we talk about little clean. Well, I didn't really drive in high school, so that's kind of one thing. It wasn't anything like we if we wanted, we we had it basically. Not something we well, if you needed it, it was provided for us. But you know, my mom, she's I won't, she's she's very frugal. I'll say that. She's very, very frugal,

Class, Trips, And Expectations

SPEAKER_01 16:20

so she's not spending her money on anything outside of like, you know, food clothes, essentials, but she was spending on herself. But my my dad, I mean, he he he again he was mugging more the essentials, but like, you know, like I say, we would take trips at least once a year. The one trip we would take is to Disney World. And I think that was one thing I took at least from five up to about 13. At least at the back of my mind, when I, because I guess I was like 12, yeah, 12 or 10, 10, 11, 12, I understood what it meant, but like I didn't know what would happen if it didn't, if he did lose his job. But you know, I didn't understand, at least like having two parents in the house. It was like you, you, they both worked, and you know, with one didn't, it it would be more tight.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Absolutely. And think about that, right, Christian. Think about the trill, right? He grew up in a household, his dad wasn't even active or present. His brother was a f you know, figure for him, but he was doing his own thing. He had to get how he lived, basically. You feel me? And if you think about that, his mother, Trill am I correct? She had to work the majority of the time. Right. You just said your dad had the possibility of being laid off. First of all, your dad is at the house. Think about this, right? How do you feel personally about Christian's situation? He had both of his parents in the household, his dad could have lost a job, but his mom had a job, right? It was still a source of income. It was like both, you know, we don't have a 50-50 conversation, which I hate those so much. That's what I'm talking about, you know. But, anyways, we don't have those conversations accurately realistic to our lives at the times, right? We don't never have those conversations about how both parents had to contribute to paying the bills, getting food, getting things that you wanted, getting things they wanted, paying, you know, cars go down. I don't know if that happened with my dad or my mom. Maybe I didn't pay too much attention to it, but the minute you think you got you some money, you done paid your rent, you know, you got a little pocket change to play around with, you know, oh damn, I got about, you know, I got something to play around with in my account. And here come your car, right? Like cabin, right? Tire going flat, spark plugs. I'll be diagnosing people's cars, right? I'd be like, hey, yo, does it seem like you're, you know, your uh your RPM

Trill’s Brotherly Guidance And Detours

SPEAKER_04 18:50

going up, or you know, every time you press on an accelerator, it doesn't really feel like it wants to accelerate past 20 miles per hour? Yeah. Sounds like spark plugs to me, buddy. You need a tune up, right? So, and I mean it's crazy that you have to experience those things for yourself, but it's just like think about that, right? Your mom and your dad collectively work together for your household to build you, to keep you in Princeton and Howard. Where'd you go to college if you went to college?

SPEAKER_03 19:17

I'm gonna buy off the state.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Huge difference. Shout out to the issue.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Shout out to the blazers, go blazers.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Anyway, don't say, right, right, right, right. But, anyways, think about that differential environment. What can you say about him? Like the situation he's in. What would you what would you call that, like, in your perspective? You know how people say, oh, he's privileged, or he was, what would you say, wealthy, or he had the opportunities? Do you see any type of difference between you and him as far as with the upbringing or like that point of view? What if your dad was in the household? What what would you say your household would look like? Would your dad would your brother would have, you know, shout out your brother, man? Shout out to Logie. When he'd been like chasing that lifestyle that he was doing, if your dad was present and he could have did something else. Was your brother good at football, right? So it's a lot of things to talk about right there.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

I mean, for his situation, I would say that I think having two parents in a household in general is an advantage. And the reason why I say it's an advantage is because you get a chance to see, for one, one thing that I didn't grow up with that I feel like when you're when you have your parents in a healthy relationship your whole life, you get for one, get a chance to see real love. Like you actually see real love. They're not arguing, shouting at each other, you know, they're communicating well. I didn't get a chance to see that. I don't I didn't know what love really looked like, you know, except for movies and stuff. So that's an advantage. You know, the financial thing, of course, like having two incomes is always gonna be great, you know, no matter what it is. I think, I think for me, in my situation now, I get a chance to see like what it is to have two incomes and how much easier it is kind of to navigate through life with having two incomes. So I would say it's just it's just an advantage, you know, growing up to be able to not have to see your mom struggle, you know. Like my mom legit sat me down and taught me really like what it is to struggle. Because

Mentorship, Models, And Mistakes

SPEAKER_03 21:20

I for a long time I really didn't know. I mean, I felt it because I could see like my friends getting certain things, and I can't get it at all. Like, not even a question, not even a thought in my mind. Like, I I know I can't get that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 21:32

So, like that's great. The key word there that you use, and thank you for sharing that as well, too, Trill. Lotto uncover there, right? So he said, advantages. Advantages give you opportunities, opportunities give you right, purpose, life, right? So you had the advantage of having two parents in the household. He knows how that outcome looks like. He just literally just described your household, right? Whole structure.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Structure was similar, yeah. In terms of it wasn't all hunky-dory.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Right, right, right, right. But listen, in that context, I'm sorry, in that context, he used the word struggle. He didn't say, you know, oh, we had to get it out, you know. People say get it out the mud as far as like slain to understand that, but now you're speaking my language. But, anyways, uh, you know, somebody that may have uh, let's just use the context of poor, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

What we heard today wasn't just about fathers, it was about foundations. Christians showed us the structure that comes when both parents build together the lessons, the balance, the discipline that becomes second nature. Krill reminded us that sometimes the structure isn't there, but brotherhood fills the gap. A sibling becomes a teacher, and the struggle becomes its own education. What we've learned is that there's no single definition of father figure. Sometimes it's a

Comparing Households And Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_00 23:10

dad, sometimes it's a brother, sometimes it's the silence that teaches us how to speak. And through every story, one truth remains presence matters, but purpose defines us. This is how we build when the blueprint isn't there. I'm your host, Rico Jones, and this has been in his shadow in his absence real stories, real growth, and the real journey of becoming men.