Montessori Mindset: A Conversation with Jennifer Daniels on Forming Faithful Citizens

Join host Melissa Rohan, founder and head of school at Waterfront Academy, for a deep dive into the future of education, faith, and civic engagement. In this episode, Jennifer Daniels, founder of the Faithful Citizenship Institute, shares her journey from teaching in Texas to advocating for school choice on Capitol Hill

Resources Mentioned:
Faithful Citizenship Institute: https://faithfulcitizenshipinstitute.org/
Federal Scholarships Information: https://federalscholarships.com/
American Federation for Children: The nation's largest school choice advocacy organization.


Timestamps:
00:09 - Introduction of guest Jennifer Daniels and the Faithful Citizenship Institute
01:34 - Professional background and the path to founding the Faithful Citizenship Institute
04:24 - Mission and work of the Faithful Citizenship Institute in forming leaders in Catholic social teaching
06:03 - Demographics and backgrounds of participants in the Institute’s programs
08:07 - Detailed overview of the Education Freedom Tax Credit.5
11:17 - Explanation of Scholarship Granting Organizations (SGOs) and how they function
13:06 - The role of state governors in opting into the federal tax credit program
14:36 - Comparing vouchers, Education Savings Accounts (ESAs), and tax-credit scholarships
16:17 - Timeline for the implementation of the Education Freedom Tax Credit through 2027
20:52 - Post-COVID education trends, including the rise of micro-schooling and homeschooling
23:04 - Eligibility of homeschooling and micro-schools for federal programs
24:52 - Future goals for the Institute, including online programs and a Catholic policy leader network.
29:04 - Guidance for Catholic engagement in politics and policy.
31:01 - Practical steps for advocacy and using resources like federalscholarships.com.
32:42 - How to contact Jennifer Daniels and learn more about the Faithful Citizenship Institute.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

And welcome to Montessori Mindset, the podcast where we explore the ideas, people, and practices shaping the future of Montessori education and thoughtful parenting. I'm your host, Melissa Rohan, founder and head of school at Waterfront Academy in Washington, D.C. Today I am delighted to be joined by Jennifer Daniels, founder of the Faithful Citizenship Institute. Jennifer's work focuses on forming young people to engaging thoughtfully with society, civic life, and culture through the lens of faith and virtue. At a time when conversations about education, citizenship, and the role of schools in informing the whole person are more important than ever. Her work offers both practical guidance and a hopeful vision. In our conversation today, we'll talk about Jennifer's background and the path that led her to founding the Faithful Citizenship Institute. We'll also explore the mission behind the Institute, how it supports schools, families, and teachers, and why forming Faithful Citizens is such essential work today. We'll also talk on some of the broader conversations happening right now around education. So thank you, Jennifer, for joining me today. Thanks, Lizzie. It's such a pleasure to see you. So for people who don't know, Jennifer and I have known each other for over 10 years now. We keep running into each other. We used to be neighbors and we support each other in many ways. And then I started the school. And when I first started the school, Jennifer was very, very helpful in me starting the school. She had a lot of advice and a lot of thoughts. And I really appreciated all that guidance. And so I'm excited the last time I talked to her to learn about what she's doing. And I wanted uh, because I thought it would also be really helpful for everybody else since she's such a wealth of information. So can you tell everyone a little bit about your professional and personal background and how your earlier work and experiences are shaping what you're doing today?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah, so uh I am originally from Texas and um uh uh wanted to always work in education. That was my dream to be in the education field. And um I however kind of always knew that I wanted to work in some world of education policy or reform as it was kind of called back in the 90s, and so I didn't know a lot about policy or politics, so I majored in education and started teaching in education, um, but then very soon it kind of transitioned into the politics world in in Texas, um, which then led me to Washington DC in the early 2000s, and uh I've been here ever since. Um and while I started uh on the House Education and Workforce Committee, uh my first job in Washington, I had a whole lot of jobs in politics from a variety of different perspectives, but it wasn't until I started at the Archdiocese of Washington in the Catholic schools office that I really uh came into my passion today, which is Catholic education, uh, as well as school choice, which allows for families to choose the school of their choice. Um, and I've been able to do that work at the Catholic Diocese here in Washington and then transition to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, where I worked in the for the Committee on Catholic Education there, and was able to help advocate for the Washington, D.C., DC Opportunity Scholarship Program, all the federal education programs that Catholic schools participate in across the country. And then fast forward to today, we now officially have a federal school choice program that is hopefully going to make school choice available for families in all 50 states.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

And this is so exciting. This is truly, truly so exciting. Um so before we get to talking about the school choice aspect of it, can you tell us a little bit about Faithful Citizenship Institute?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, absolutely. So we just celebrated our two-year anniversary. I can't believe it's already been two years with this organization. And as you mentioned in the intro, our mission is to bring formation in Catholic social teaching to policy leaders at the state and the federal level who are Catholic, although we've had non-Catholics participate in our program, but want to bring the Catholic social teaching principles to their policy formation. And so it's not to be prescriptive in the policies themselves. We're not a think tank and we're not a lobbyist organization, but we want to form our leaders in these foundational principles, which then they can take to whichever policy area they work in. Uh, first leading with the um the human person and the dignity of the human person is the foundation to what we do, uh, using subsidiarity and solidarity uh to design policy principles, and then ensuring that our final uh end result is to advance the common good. And so no matter where you work or in what field you work, those four principles um can guide your work.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

You're doing you're doing the work. So can you tell me? Because you mentioned that not you most of your um of the people that are participating are Catholic. There were some non-Catholics. Can you, and these are our our nation's leaders in policy making, can you talk a little bit about the demographics? So are they coming from all 50 states? Are they the young right out of college or are they more mature? Uh can you talk a little bit about the demographics a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah, so our very first uh inaugural course uh is being is uh about to conclude this month. Um so it was a seven-month course started back in the fall, and we have an incredibly diverse group. I like to say we're uh bipartisan, ecumenical, and represent all three branches of government. Um, and they also are a diverse group in terms of uh um you know where they are in their careers. We have some younger, younger staffers, but we also have some very um mature staffers. We've got we've got lawyers, we've got think tinkers, we've got administration, uh all of all of the above. And they all came with just such an open heart and an interest in learning more about their faith and how they can bring their faith into into their work. And so um, thanks to my time at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, I also have a great relationship with Catholic conference directors across the country. And so we are hoping to bring this course to state level capitals as well and expand it all across the country in the years to come.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

I love that. I love that. That is so important. Um wow. And I love that you're reaching a lot of different people because I feel that there's so much impact that can really affect the daily life of normal people that yeah, like you're yes. And for instance, in school choice, um so school choice, while it's federal, it's it's a federal program, isn't necessarily being implemented in all this all the states. And so you would need to have somebody in the states understanding the program and uh being able to implement it so that Catholic families uh can participate at some level, right? So can you tell us a little bit about the um the school chose program that's coming and the big beautiful bill?

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah, so um the the name we're referring to this program is the education freedom tax credit. Um it was passed as a part of the Big Beautiful bill last July that the Trump Trump by the Trump administration and Congress uh Congress passed. Um it didn't really have a title in the legislation itself, so that's why we're referring to it as Education Freedom Tax Credit. Um, and what it does is is create a tax credit for donors to donate up to$1,700 of their tax liability uh to a scholarship granting organization. So it's an important distinction. It's not a tax credit for parents, but it's a tax credit for donors. And we currently have multiple states across the country that have a state version of this type of structure, this type of program. And so now we'll have a federal tax credit to complement any of the states that have a state tax credit version of this. Um the donors donate the funds, or yeah, donate the funds, get the tax credit, and then the scholarship granting organizations have a very uh flexible freedom within the legislation to design a eligibility structure that best meets the structure of their communities and to reach the families that they'd like to reach at their, you know, in their communities. And they also have the ability to work with different types of schools uh that are in their community. There's no um, you know, top-down mandates or instructions uh also for the schools that participate. And so the legislation worked really hard to keep it as open-ended as possible so that those on the ground, so it's it's not being dictated by Washington, but the leaders on the ground, families, communities, donors, philanthropists, all of the above can design a program that best meets the needs of the children in their community.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

So each I'm I'm gonna tell you what I hear, and then you tell me about it right. Okay. So um in the bill, there is a part of it that specifically speaks to school choice, which is called the education tax. And donors, these are for any donor?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, so the tax credit limit is$1,700, which is much lower than we initially were wanting. Um, it is only for individuals, not for corporate tax credit or business tax credits. Um, but yeah, so really anybody that has a tax liability, which is a pretty vast majority of Americans of that amount, can either choose to pay that tax to the government or they can choose to make that donation to a scholarship granting organization. So it's really a win-win for all taxpayers out there.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Wow. That's amazing. Okay, so you've got a liability, you get to choose whether to pay it as tax or to put it into this fund. Then as so then that money, the scholarship, does it go? Where does it go?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

So they will donate to a scholarship granting organization. And that can be um, you know, as you see in the states that already have these, we have scholarship granting organizations that are sometimes uh run by a community of schools, they might be run by a nonprofit organization, uh, they might be run in the Catholic world in partnership with diocese or Catholic conferences, and schools could come together to make a scholarship granting organization. Um, this grant the SGOs, as we call them, they have to work with more than one school. So you can't just have one SGO per school, but communities can come together. Um, and and all of those granting organizations then have the opportunity to set the eligibility parameters for who they're going to serve. So that could be geographical, we're only going to serve the Washington, D.C. area, or it could be statewide. Anybody that lives in Maryland could could participate, or they could say we're going to give scholarships for uh schools within a certain community. So all of that is yet to be determined. Again, it's not laid out in the law, and now is the time for our schools and our parents and our communities to come together and say, what kind of scholarship granting organization do we want to build and create to meet the best needs of the students and families where we live.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

So it but it has to be within the boundaries of a state. It could not be a national SGO.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Correct. So one additional line item that made it into this bill that was not a part of our original goal was that the governors actually have to opt in to participating uh in this tax credit. So each governor uh has to fill out a form. The IRS just established this form on their website uh in December. It's a brand new form. They fill out the form and they say, we would like to elect to participate. And then every year they will notify the uh IRS which SGOs are operating in their state. So the IRS knows that donations that are given to these um named SGOs are going to be eligible for the tax credit.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

So then, okay, so let's say there's a donation of$50,000, right? That's the pot. Um, and it's distributed to let's say 50 states, because every amazing governor elects to do this, right? God willing.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

And we're on our way, we're gonna make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

And um, so 50 states, a thousand dollars per state. I'm obviously I'm just using simple numbers here just for to illustrate. Um then how is it distributed among the students?

SPEAKER_00 14:01

So so there won't be a big pot like that. Each pot, if you will, is is held at that local level by the SGO. So all families would apply directly to the SGO and they would uh determine the SGO would determine their eligibility. The SGO will also set the scholarship size. So there may be an SGO that wants to uh give larger amounts to allow for a larger amount of tuition to be covered for families, but then you might have a different SGO down the road that wants to serve um, let's say, after school programs or a summer program. And so they may offer smaller scholarships because they're trying to target a different need. Um, and then the other important thing is that this is not exclusively for private school tuition. You know, this is not a voucher program, even though all of the opponents exclusively use the word voucher. This is 100% not a voucher. Vouchers are only allowed for private school tuition. This is open to students from all sectors, public school, private school, charter school, and it can be used for a wide range of eligible uses, not just tuition. So you could have students with disabilities apply to an SGO that is providing after-school, you know, additional learning opportunities. They could be providing materials and resources for students with disabilities. Um, like I said, you could have smaller programs like after-school programs, and um, there's a wide range of eligibility beyond tuition. And so again, those SGOs have the ability to design that and and determine what the scholarship amount is and what the eligibility list is for the students in their community.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

This is amazing. It's also very complicated. That's very, it's like a web a little bit. But I think that uh with you know, putting together the right heads to kind of put together, establish a plan, and start implementing that plan to serve um the the communities across the 50 states. I think that that is feasible. Um, and you do have a little bit of a runway. Remind me again when all of this kind of needs to be done by yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

So the program doesn't officially take effect, or the tax credit is not eligible for tax donations until 2027. So we have all of 2026 to do several things that we need to do. One is first get the word out. So thank you for hosting this today because we need to educate families, um, administrators, community leaders, faith-based organization leaders, uh, pastors, all of the above, so that they understand the intricacies of the program and understand how it works. Then we have to ensure that we have the SGOs that are established in each of these communities that have to first raise the money and then determine how they're going to structure the program for themselves. And then they have to get out there to get the word out about their own scholarship. Again, the families have to apply directly to those SGOs, so they have to find the families, recruit the families, you know, receive applications, process the applications, and all of that. Um so uh we won't be receiving the donations or processing applications till 2027, but all that has to be figured out and explained and uh and communicated to the uh families, you know, as soon as possible so that when 2027 gets here, everybody is ready to go immediately.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

So so you said in 2027 they're gonna be collecting the funds. So when would those funds be available for families to start participating?

SPEAKER_00 17:47

So as soon as the SGO is able to receive the funds, they can then distribute the funds. Okay. So in 2027. So likely, I mean, realistically, perhaps maybe some summer programs could get started in 2027. Um, but probably we'll see a lot of the most biggest application for uh the fall of 2027.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

That's exciting. That's really, really exciting. Now that we know about the education, freedom, tax credit, what are some other um programs within school choice that Catholic families should be aware of?

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Well, Catholic or school choice has been expanding over the past, you know, uh 30 years very quickly all over the country. Um, there's been kind of an evolution of school choice that people should understand. We kind of started with the concept of a voucher. Um, the very first school choice program in Wisconsin was a voucher, um, and also very tailored to a specific population. And over the years, school choice has evolved to provide more flexibility and also to reach more families. So, fast forward to where we are today, we have um the most popular program that's spreading across the country is actually called Education Savings Accounts. And with these savings accounts, families have a lot more flexibility to use their account for a wide range of educational uses, which is what much more similar to what this federal program does as well. And so we now have states across the country that have these education savings accounts, and not only are the programs themselves more flexible, but the eligible families are much wider. And uh in fact, in um several almost two, well, about I forget the exact number, but several uh several states uh we have universal eligibility. Um, that doesn't mean that there's enough funding for every single child because um there is uh you know usually less scholarships than there are children, but we have uh the eligibility for all students as opposed to some of the more direct targeted programs that uh were originally the the framework of school choice programs.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah, I remember so I think when we first met, I was already a school choice advocate, but but when but you're the one that told me about the the savings accounts that was something that you had told me about and put that on my radar. So I I I always appreciate our conversations because I always learn so much. Um so moving forward, where where do you think the um education policy is going or what's the hope?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Well, I mean, the hope is really for parents to be in the driver's seat of their child's education. Um, you know, COVID was uh very detrimental to our schools and our students in a lot of ways. Unfortunately, we've seen the negative impacts it's had on academic achievement of our students. But the silver lining of COVID was that parents got very heavily involved in their child's education and they saw what was happening, they had to get involved when they were doing perhaps online learning at home, or some of the families created their own small pods or micro schools throughout the COVID time frame, and then they have stayed engaged and they've stayed involved, and so a huge number of states expanded school choice following COVID, and that has continued to be a theme in education is that parents are are learning more about education options out there, they're learning about different learning styles of their students, and then finding schools that meet the needs of their students. And so we are seeing that in in all the sectors, public, private, and charter, homeschooling has exploded since COVID. And it's really wonderful to see parents in the driver's seat, and we hope to bring more of that to parents.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

You know, I don't know if you saw the interview I did with Beth Blaufit. She was one of my first interviews, and it was I'm she was so gracious about it, and I really appreciate that. But she did talk about. How exciting it was from her perspective as well, because she's seeing, especially, you know, the school system was actually created by Catholics, right? The modern school system that we know is created in the US by Catholics. And um, and so to have we now we're starting to see she saw and I see as well. And you've mentioned you've seen how you are seeing, excuse me, how it's becoming really um very creative and um and families are they're saying, no, we want this, and this is how this is going to look. And so we're going to create this thing that mirrors our, you know, different um values and expectations. And so we're seeing a lot of micro schools pop up, homeschools pop up. So kind of circling back to what we were talking about, SGOs, are they going to um look at some of like the homeschooling and the would that be eligible, homeschooling as well as micro schools and things like that? Would that be eligible?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

So the homeschooling question is a bit open-ended at the moment. And we are uh one of the one of the other bureaucratic items that's happening throughout 2026 is the department, um, I'm sorry, the yeah, the department of treasury, the IRS is writing the rules and regulations for the implementation of this program. Um, homeschooling was not explicitly stated in the legislation, but it was also not explicitly excluded in the legislation. And so we are um hoping that homeschoolers will be uh determined to be eligible by the IRS and the rules and regs. And then micro schools um are it varies a little bit from state to state based on their classification by the state. But if they're considered to be a private school by their state, then they should be eligible to participate in the program.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Oh, exciting, but also a little bit uh you know, it's it's not very we can't see the future, obviously. Right. Um the future is not clear. Um so how so you I think participated in School Choice Week, is that true?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Um yeah, well, we uh our our one of our big programs got snowed out here in Washington, DC. That's right, but I forgot they had um they had a hearing on Capitol Hill uh talking about expanding school choice um uh here here in Washington.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Oh, I really hope that happens. I really hope that happens. Um so for you, for the Faithful Citizenship Institute, I know you said that you're looking at doing other other states and expanding your program. What else is on the horizon for for you or for the institute or for school choice? What are you seeing in the future?

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Well, um we have a new uh two two things is our goal right now with Faithful Citizenship Institute. One is when I first launched the in-person course here in Washington, DC, I actually got a lot of interest from people across the country that were wanting to register, not knowing that they had to be in Washington, DC. And so we are working to create an online program so that we can have this course for anybody to sign up from wherever they live. And so we're hoping to partner with some online uh communities to do that. And then as we grow and as we build, what we really want to establish is a network of Catholic leaders in policy across the country. And so we want to offer ongoing faith formation, but also a community for them to find each other, to brainstorm together, to share model legislation or share talking points or just uh legislative strategy on how they're trying to implement their goals. And so we're gonna be launching an online platform for collaboration and discussion uh and and helping Catholic leaders out there uh find find a community to work within. Um, you know, many of the leaders that we worked with, you know, they want to live their faith and they want to use their faith as a guiding post in their policy, but they're looking for for some help and some support. And so we hope to provide that for them.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

That is so important. I I always felt, not always, I I often feel like I'm working in a silo. I don't, you know, and I think that I often look across and I'm like, oh, well, they don't get to, they don't have to work in a silo, they get to work collaboratively, and how great would that be? Because one mind is great, but two is even better. Right. And so having that opportunity to collaborate and work together so that not every person's working on their own and recreating wheels that might have already done, maybe they've already faced policy uh questions before, or they thought ahead and saw something that I didn't see. So I think that that is wonderful. What a what a gift you're giving to to these members of yours. Uh and uh I I look forward to to seeing how that goes. Um, is it would it be like an app, or is it what would that look like?

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yeah, it is gonna be an app. Um we're working with the with a sophomore, a soft software community uh company right now. Um it's gonna be called Fratelli based on um you know Pope Francis's document um on fraternity. And so we hope to you know also have a place where um you know people feel that they're working in a positive environment from that inspiration. And and yeah, like you said, there's so many policy areas um that move just consistently across the country. And so where you know one let piece of legislation that was a bad piece of legislation was um fought down in one state, and then it might pop up in another state across the country. So, you know, those Catholic leaders can learn from what happened, or you know, in a positive manner, if school choice passed in one state and they want to bring school choice to their state, how can they learn to do that as well? And so, you know, many of these policy conversations are very cyclical across the country, and you know, just because it's arrived in your state doesn't mean it it's the first time these conversations have been having. So hopefully they can learn from each other and and build and grow from there.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

I this is kind of like a random question. It just occurred to me while you were saying this. Uh, what about the person who isn't necessarily political or really like know all the nitty-gritty that's involved in the policy making, but want to be um to do their part, you know, and and help out where they can write a letter or make a phone call or something like that. How could are you looking at maybe engaging people like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Well, let me back up a little bit. The name of my institution, Faithful Citizenship Institution, comes from the bishop's document on Catholic engagement in politics, uh, which is forming conscience for faithful citizenship. And that document, you can find it on my website or on the bishop's website. It provides Catholics with real good uh tools and resources and also our obligations as Catholics to engage in in the political debate and the political conversation. Um, but throughout that, we also have guidance from the church on on how to understand the policies from the framework of Catholic social teaching, um, and then also how to discern and how to think through some more you know difficult issues by forming our conscience through understanding Catholic social teaching, through prayer, through discernment, reading the scriptures. And in this way, Catholics can can go to the polls or engage in a policy area not alone, but knowing that they have discerned what the church offers them. And then at the state level, we do have Catholic conferences in almost every state, and they are the representation for the bishops for state level policy. So if there's a question that's a specific question about specific policy at your state, they could give you some uh information usually on their website on what type uh what the bishop's position is, and then they also create action alerts, um, have sample emails or phone call scripts, things like that on their website when they are calling on Catholics to engage as well. So your state Catholic conference would be a good first step for any Catholic across the country.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

I love that. Okay, thank you for that information. That's very, very helpful. Um, is there anything else that you'd like to add that I might have missed?

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Um, well, I think this is really great what you're what you're doing. Um, like I said, the most important thing over the next year is to educate our friends and our families about this bill. Um, so I also work uh with the American Federation for Children, which is the country's largest advocacy organization for school choice, and they have just launched a new website, um, federal scholarships.com. And on that website, the bill is is listed. You can read it. It's quite short because, like I said, there's very little mandates from Washington in this program, so it's very short. You can read it easily. Um, there's also some uh a printable PDF that if you're having a PTA meeting or a um community meeting, or even for your church, you could pass out information about the um how the program works. It's literally got like a flowchart showing step by step how it works, so it's really helpful. And then very importantly, there's a map of the United States on the homepage which highlights in green all of the states whose governors have already opted into the program. So if your state is not green, it's a good time to engage and reach out to your state legislature and your governor to say, hey, we want the opportunity for school choice in our state. And uh please fill out the form and get us opted in to this program. They the governors have until the end of the year to opt in. So uh the sooner the better, because the sooner they do it, the sooner SGOs can start ramping up and families can start knowing what the implementation is going to look like in their state.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

This is so exciting. Okay. Well, thank you very much, Jennifer. I really appreciate it. Can you tell our audience how to get a hold of you or to find out what you're doing with the Faithful Citizenship Institute?

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Yeah, absolutely. So my website is Faithful Citizenship Institute.org. And on there, um there's a you know an explanation of other workshops that we offer outside of the longer deep dive in Catholic Social Teaching. We offer workshops on the various elements of the Faithful Citizenship document. Um and we also have you know can customize a program that um best meets the needs of your organization or your group. So we'd be happy to work with you on that. And then you can also find key encyclicals on Catholic Social Teaching and key information there just for your own faith formation too. So we'd love to have you come and visit.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Oh yeah, absolutely. I encourage everybody to that. Jennifer, thank you so much for sharing your insights and for the important work you're doing through the Faithful Citizenship Institute, forming uh, well, I was gonna say young adults, but um it sounds like more than that, uh, Americans in general, uh, who can think clearly, act with virtue, and contribute meaningfully to their communities is truly vital work. And I am grateful you took the time to share your uh perspectives and guidance with us. And thank you to everyone listening to Montessori Mindset. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please consider sharing the episode with a friend, a fellow educator, or a parent who cares deeply about the formation of the next generation. You can find Montessori Mindset on YouTube, Spotify, Amazon, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, and FIO. So be sure to subscribe whenever you listen to podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts, so you don't miss upcoming conversations. Until next time, keep nurturing curiosity, independence, and a thoughtful Mannessori mindset.