Eden Equips
Welcome to Eden Equips, the podcast that shares real stories and practical tools to help parents, carers, and educators feel equipped for the journey of raising and supporting neurodivergent children and young people.
Eden Equips
Episode 013 with Emma Ahern
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In this episode, Rebecca sits down with Emma Ahern for an honest and deeply reflective conversation about the realities of parenting. Emma shares her personal experiences of navigating motherhood, including the emotional weight, challenges, and unexpected moments that shape the journey.
Together, they explore the importance of building a strong support network, especially in the early stages of parenting, and how even small moments of care for yourself can make a meaningful difference. Emma opens up about the vulnerability that can come with motherhood, the fear and uncertainty many parents carry, and the powerful reminder to take things one day at a time.
The conversation also touches on trusting your instincts, letting go of the idea of perfection, and creating space to stay present rather than becoming overwhelmed by the “what ifs” of the future. With a mix of practical insight and heartfelt honesty, this episode offers reassurance, perspective, and encouragement for anyone navigating their own parenting journey.
Welcome to Eden Equips, the podcast that shares real stories, practical tools, and helps parents, carers, educators feel equipped for the journey of raising and supporting neurodivergent children and young people. Whether you are tuning in with a coffee in the car or you have a precious quiet moment, I am so glad to hear that you are here. And I am delighted and so glad that we've got our part two. We're going in for a two-parter with Emma. And many of you will have listened to the first part. If you haven't, I really encourage you to go back and listen to that. And we're going to jump straight in to our second part today, where we're going to talk all around emotional communication. Emma, so the last episode we were talking old things, um, like re like tuning into yourself, reclaiming your own trust as a parent, which you have a huge heart for and speaking at our conference about, but a huge part of your job is communication. So speech and language therapist, um, communication is at the heart of what you do. But this is a huge challenge to a lot of people for various reasons around that. But I think especially that diving into the world of like emotional communication, the amount of conversations I have about this around for parents or carers, but also for like teachers and professionals of how do young how can I help my young person process their emotions? And more so than that, communicate emotions. It's a big topic that you advocate around. So let's jump into it a little bit. So, communication at the heart. Tell us a bit about like why is that so important for you? How would you sum that up?
SPEAKER_01Communication as um I think communication for me is about connection, yeah, and that can come in all shapes and sizes and all forms and all means. And I think a lot of speech language therapists will say the same thing that all communication is valid, whether your child gestures or points, or uses scripted language, or uses AAC devices, or are able to use mouth words, whether it's single words, whole scripts, or full sentences.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It can be a hug. It can be taking your hand to the fridge to get them their favorite snack. Right. Everything is valid and it's and it's about connection. Yeah. It's it's knowing that you are connected with somebody, that you can get your needs met, that you're understood. To be understood by somebody is a lot.
SPEAKER_00It's like the most it's the thing we all seek, isn't it? Yeah. To be seen, known, and understood.
SPEAKER_01And communication comes down to having a shared understanding, not just of that person, but a shared understanding of that means of communication. So making space for how your child communicates or other people and how they communicate and connecting through that means to make that connection with that person. Yeah, so important.
SPEAKER_00And it's really useful to kind of get that insight off the off the bat because we sometimes think communication has to be a certain type of thing. Yeah. And I know that's something you're really passionate about of like opening that up more and helping all of us understand that communication looks different for so many individuals, especially when we're talking about emotions. One of the big things that we talk around emotions is how do I express it? How do I communicate that? Yeah. Now I'm aware that is an answer that probably needs and could be like a six-hour answer of how do I help a young person communicate their emotions. But if I was sitting in a session with you and I was like, my young person's really struggling to express emotions, how do I help them communicate that? Where would you start with me?
SPEAKER_01I would start with how are they processing, connecting with their emotional experiences. I would come back to how they perceive it, how they experience it, and how they express that. So it's almost like taking it back a step or two before we think about the labeling, the naming, and the communication of that emotion to another person. Okay. Come back to the source, come back to the child or the adult, whoever we're speaking about. And I would bring up questions like how do those emotional experiences manifest for them internally? Thinking about that introspower awareness, that connection, that mind-body connection. How are they experiencing those emotions? And then I would also be thinking from a neurodiversity-affirming approach as well, would be how does that look externally? Because a lot of the young people that I work with don't express their emotions in a way that society would typically expect emotions to be expressed. Some of them have a limited range of facial expressions, so they very often get misinterpreted as being disengaged or disinterested. Massively. But they're not. And I have another person or a few individuals I work with whose expression of joy and excitement can very often get mislabeled or misinterpreted as aggression. That's so so it brings up a lot of conversations around or a lot of questions around how are they experiencing that? Because I'm sure you're familiar with Kelly Malor's work, Introsception curriculum is amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, so good.
SPEAKER_01And I always say to parents, if you can have an understanding of introspenness, even the alert program or the autism level up, they're they're also very good programs as well. But I'm a huge advocate for Kelly's work. Yeah, good to hear. Um, but if you can have an an insight to that, yeah, it really does underpin your understanding of how we process emotions or how they manifest internally.
SPEAKER_00Can I jump in there? So if I'm listening to this, I've never heard that word, introsception before.
SPEAKER_01What is it? So, as you know, we're very often taught about our five senses. Um the five senses that make sense of our external world. So our sight, um, our smell, our sense of smell, uh, taste, touch, and what have I hearing, of course.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes I find that so challenging. See, when I talk about five senses in training, I'm like, what are they?
SPEAKER_01So we think about those five key ones. However, however, and those make sense of our external world. Yes. Then we've got our senses that make sense of our internal world. So we've got proprioception, which is one of the earliest senses that develop in neutro. And that's like our, in again, in very kind of simplistic terms, um, our sense of where we are in space. It's that like muscle tone activation, it's where we are. Um, and then we've got vestibular, which is balance movement, and then introsception, which is primarily um regulated by that vagus nerve. So it's how we're processing internal sensations, like knowing if you're thirsty, hungry, um, how maybe anxiety, anger, those feelings show up for you in a physical sense in your body and how you're able to process that. So introsception awareness is that connection and that awareness, and it shows up, and we we talk about introsception differences, so people can experience the same thing in a different way. For example, hunger. Yeah, I don't register hunger as hunger pains, yeah, as such, actually, it's more of a brain fog, or it can be nausea for me, for example. So it's not a typical, oh my tummy's rumbling, I'm hungry. Yeah, it might manifest more as a brain fog type sensation. Yeah, um, some people might experience uh their calm might be active, it might be movement, and actually having to sit still can be quite unnerving for them. Um and it's so it's understanding how your brain is processing a sensation and and how that then manifests for you as an emotion, right?
SPEAKER_00So the emotional response could be that emotional interpretation, and then isn't that isn't that then the challenge? Because coming back to that, I'm now so what we're saying here is everyone is processing these experiences, internal experiences differently, sensory experiences differently. So when we talk about emotions, every emotion is processed and experienced differently, dependent on the person.
SPEAKER_01And we're not born with an innate instinct of how to label those experiences. Yes, so those experiences so how we come to understand emotions and how they're named or described is how we're taught.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and then that is where the challenges now start, because how we are teaching emotions, so like loads of loads of um conversations are happening about this at the minute, and especially like in my sphere that we're talking about it in like school settings of how we teach, how have we been teaching emotions? And now you'll get a lot of kids who are just saying, Yeah, I'm happy, and you're like, I don't, I don't think that's where you're at, because I think what's happened is we've started to our young people have started to identify what's like a good emotion and a bad emotion, and that's so dangerous. And like, even from a personal experience, recently having to explain to um our little one that um I am I'm actually it's happy tears because I'm such an empath. I like I'm I will cry at everything, I will cry at anything, I will cry if I'm passionate about it, if I'm tired, I cry, like if I'm angry, it is just like a core expression for me. If I'm loving something, like I'm an emotional person in that way. And to a little one who's been taught tears mean sad, then I'm having to be like, oh, this is I'm really happy right now. I'm so proud of you. You know, like I remember at that moment being like, oh, this is a really interesting teaching moment because this is about how you're taught about something. How do I perceive an emotion that's happening in that moment? So what you're explaining there is nuance.
SPEAKER_01You're you're you're breaking down an emotional experience and you're stepping away from a neuronormative or a typical or an overgeneralized explanation of what an emotion should feel like and should look like if you're happy. So you've had to take you've had to actively take time to explain that to your child and the nuance of that. So what's to say that that doesn't apply to a much broader range of emotions on a much deeper level? And that is where Especially if you're neurodivergent.
SPEAKER_00Right, exactly. But isn't that where then I know a lot of like your views? And I completely am with you this. I'm aware I'm like, here's a can of worms, let's open it. But that I'm all I'm keen for that. Let's talk about zones of regulation a little bit because they are used within school. It's used within school now, like schools across country, across um, across world really. It became very popularized, very used. Um, and I think it's something that we have to talk about because more and more schools that I'm entering into are like, oh, we're using zone of regulation, but it's not really quite doing anything, it's not really working. And I'm like, yes, okay. We're now kind of viewing it as a bit of an unhelpful approach, really, now that we know more about emotions, the brain, the body, all of that, to communicate emotions, not only for um like our neurotypical individuals, but our neurodivergent individuals, this is incredibly unhelpful, maybe I would say. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
SPEAKER_01I think, yeah. I think first and foremost, it's just to recognize, and like I do post about this a lot on social media, and I get a lot of people that engage with me and say that it works for them. So it's not to invalidate this is terrible. No, 100% not. And I think this kind of comes back to if we go back to part one of this chat, it's about it's about working out what works for you. Like I said, it's about actively engaging with information and working out whether it works for you or not. Okay. So with zones of regulation, actively engage with it. Think about the profile of your child, whether it's a client or your own child in front of you or a student in your class, and actively engage with zones of regulation and look at the person that you're thinking of using it for, and then work out whether it's a good fit or not. So it's very much on an individual basis, right? And it will work for some. But there is a chance, and there's a really good risk, that if you over-generalize this approach in a classroom of 30 kids, we know the prevalence of neurodiversity is pretty high in terms of neurodivergent profiles, particularly if we're thinking about uh autistic, ODHD, ADHD, PTSD, um, children. And again, there's other things to factor in as well. We, you know, there's crossover with uh dyslexia. Um I know sensory processing disorder is not a diagnosis, but it's something to factor in. There's lots of things. So if we're sort of over-generalizing zones of regulation in a class of 30 kids, there's a really good chance it's not going to work for all of them. Okay. Um and it will be somewhat confusing for those young children. Like I said, they're not born with an ability to name or describe emotions. But what if there's a couple of kids in that class, say they're, you know, you know, five, six years of age and they're using zones of regulation. And there are a couple of neurodivergent kids in that class who are developing a sense of their introspens.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they they process happy or sad in a different way, but zones of regulation is a top-down way of prescribing and telling you how it should be felt. And that doesn't connect with you. That's gonna start to create a disconnect with your introspens, and it's confusing.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, yeah, that would then confuse surely an individual. Exactly. Like, that's not how I look or feel, or that's not what I do when I'm in.
SPEAKER_01When you try to fit yourself into the zones where you do fit, but it starts to create this disconnect with yourself. And very often it's the reason why I developed I'll come back to zones of regulation, but just on a side note, the reason why I developed my theory and my map was because I was working with a lot of teenagers that were coming to me on paper with emotional literacy difficulties. So I'm like, well, where does that come from? Okay, now let's rewind back to the classroom. We've got five, six-year-olds where they're using zones of regulation. There's, say, in a class of 30, you've got five to six kids who are neurodivergent and they're being told this is what sad looks like. It's the blue zone, it goes slow, it's heavy, but maybe their sad doesn't feel that way. Maybe their sad manifests more like a red zone, for example. But if it's an overgeneralized approach, that's quite confusing. So that's the first issue is that it doesn't align with neural, it doesn't align with introsception differences. That's the first point. So you can't over-generalize it, it doesn't allow for nuance. Yeah, the second thing as well, there's three points. I love that. The second thing is that it's all about, and again, I I know that they say there's no such thing as a bad emotion or there's no such thing as a bad zone, and I understand that. However, a lot of policies and rules in school, and naturally because you've got to conduct a class of 30, huge challenges, they're very often rules and regulations about how you and expectations about how you you should behave. Understandably, in a class of 30 kids, I'm not putting it in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But very often when a child is in a point of dysregulation, something there's usually a negative consequence for that, generally. Right. So there becomes this sort of unspoken association that your red zone, you're probably going to get punished for that in some way. Like there's a compliance policy around that. Interesting. Or you get removed because you're dysregulated to regulate, but then that's a very reactive way of looking at it.
SPEAKER_00So my brain then is starting to learn, impressionable young person putting all this stuff together. My brain's now learning that red zone or my anger is a bad feeling because it' und undesired feeling that I need to push down and not feel, and I now don't know what this feeling is.
SPEAKER_01Also, for a lot of, and then this is my third point, which this leads into what you were highlighting. My third point is what about our high masking kids that don't like to be visible? You've got a zones of regulation board visibly put up on the school wall, the classroom wall, yeah, with all their little pictures on there or their names or whatever it is that represents them, and they have to move their picture into their zone. I have a very high-masking daughter.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01She will only be in the green zone. Yeah. Because she doesn't want people to know how she's really feeling. Okay. Okay. So there's a risk also of it reinforcing masking. I was about to say that is that reinforcing. I mean, any child wants to be seen to be in the red zone. Yeah. Because one, it looks different, but two, you're putting your emotions on public display. We would never do that in it.
SPEAKER_00In like an office setting. No. Of like a you know, meeting at the start of the day, put all your emotions there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, when you arrive into the office, you go into the staff room. I don't think the teachers are expected to put their venture into me today. Yeah. Um and nothing. Yeah, no, I hear it. And also, as well, just to point out, and maybe this is a fourth point, is I keep adding on points. Um, is that it's very reactive. So it's like we're in the red zone, let's regulate, which is kind of cool. Uh like they're thinking about regulating, but a lot of the time it's a lot of it's it's self-regulation, not necessarily co-regulation. And we know there's a huge difference between that, especially for people with complex or higher needs that need that support of co-regulation. But like I said, it's it's more reactive. It's like, okay, you're in red zone now. Let's regulate, let's get you back to the green zone, which is again unspokenly the more desirable zone, ideal place to be, green zone. But also, where's the proactive approach to this? So this is why I prefer programs like Kelly Malor's interception curriculum and or other ones like the Alert program or the level up, because we're thinking more proactively regulating. Like, for example, there will be, I don't know, if you like to go to the gym, you're like, you might like to work out before you go to work. So maybe like you get that 5k run in in the morning. Maybe you go to the gym and you do a class or you lift weights. You've regulated yourself before you stepped into the office.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01If you've sat down, you're having your coffee, you're stimulating yourself with your caffeine, maybe you got some crunchy snacks going on. There's a little sensory input there too. Maybe after 15 minutes, after you've done a few emails, you might get up and go to the toilet, have a little walk around, have a chat with Lucy on the way back, little social interaction, then you're sitting down, you're ready to learn again. So you're constantly like proactively and reactively regulating yourself throughout the day. Children are not given those opportunities in the classroom. So I think zones of regulation is very much a behavioral, top-down approach, yeah, but also doesn't account for the first point I was saying for interception differences. And those are kind of my main concerns.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, like it could be a whole podcast. No, it's so good, Emma, because I think we don't, we don't, like we were saying in the first part, we don't take time to think about this. Of like a, we we hear about, oh yeah, that'll work. And rather than being like, I'm just gonna think about this. Like, is this something that works for these young people? Is this something that like is a neuroaffirming practice? Is it something that's a countdown for my yeah, high-level maskers in the room, for my children who have had high levels of like PTSD? Like, I'm thinking of some young people that I've worked with who've had like traumatic loss in their life, and that's like a part of their story. Yeah. So what am I? But I'm just putting myself in green all the time, but I'm like, but underlying here for me all the time is a heartbeat of loss. Like, so I just it's just even as you're thinking, yeah, as you're talking, my brain's like, oh my goodness, like, but it's it's important to unpick.
SPEAKER_01And I like the intent of zones of regulation, I just don't like the impact. Yeah, and I think that's we really need to pull that apart. I think there's a lot of good intention with it. I think there's a lot of careful thought and consideration that's gone into it, and yes, it does work for some individuals, but it can be really negatively impactful for lots of people because it can reinforce masking, yeah, it can also create a disconnect with someone's own understanding of their introspiences, and also it reinforces um neuronormative expression of emotion as well externally. That's really key, yeah. Because again, thinking about the younger children, at that key point of development, they're coming in. Little Jimmy walks into the classroom. I did this, like I did it. Oh, Jimmy, let's look at the mirror. You're smiling. You're in the green zone. Let's look at the green zone. It's a smiling, you're ready to learn. I'm gonna put your face into the green zone. But what if Jimmy wasn't in the green zone? What if his external expression was actually reflecting something entirely different internally? But I'm just reading him superficially and assuming Yeah, there it is. Jimmy what he is feeling based on five seconds of seeing him coming into the classroom. It is. I don't know his I don't know his journey in on the bus or in the taxi or with mom. I don't know how the morning routine went. I'm not factoring in all those things for Jimmy. Or Jimmy comes in smiling. He's probably just
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say grimacing, or wasn't that so and like I think what I love hearing you say, because I think that's really important for us to even voice that is if you're listening and being like, oh crap, I use this, like this is my like key heartbeat. Like you were just saying there, like, I've done this before. Like when I was teaching, this was like such a a key, like, this is the thing to do, and like I was working like solely when supporting autistic individuals, and I think there has to be a little bit of a please. I always say this, and you're the complete same when you're teaching things of like do not be listening to this within like judgment, feeling, or like shame or guilt, because you know, we can only know. I always say you can only know what you know, and like forgive yourself for only what like time can teach you, and all of that stuff that's like massively important. But I think the whole heartbeat of what you're talking about is that reflective practice and like this maybe doesn't quite work. So, what can I do? I think that's gonna be now key, kind of coming into land a little bit of if I'm listening to this parent care professional and I'm like, yikes, this makes a lot of sense. I didn't think about it like that. What are my simple steps to now make a bit more of a supportive but neuroaffirming and also like inclusive emotional communication style?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think this comes down to very much like we talk about nuance in the individual and the child. I think educate yourself around interoception awareness and processing and what that is. Like I said, I've said it so many times, I keep saying Kelly's gonna have to pay me at this point because I keep talking, I'm gonna get commissioned. Don't get commission to talk about her FYI but uh her interoception curriculum is fantastic, but like that kind of but even if that doesn't fit like similar things, you know, like kind of educate yourself around that and understand how it works. Um, and then again, I think it comes down to getting into the habit of not assuming and being more curious. And again, this comes down to the whole idea that we have to take the pressure off ourselves to have answers immediately and get rid of that urgency. Give yourself enough time to do a bit of detective work to get to know the kids and holistically. I'm I'm speaking from the perspective of a parent or that's right, for parent, a professional or an educator. Think about your child outside of the classroom, think about your child that child outside of the therapy session, have those conversations with the parent, do a little bit of detective work, and then get together, congregate, and then then start to process it. And it will be a journey.
SPEAKER_00Because how good would that be? Say, for example, I do have like you were sharing about your daughter of like if I have a high level masking daughter, that if I am a parent and I share that, that the school takes that as a that's a really useful thing for us to know, thank you so much, rather than a we don't really say any of that. Oh you know, like that how much how much more accepting and beautiful and and that um like we were talking about um in the first uh podcast, that collaboration then starts to come together because that's really useful for me to know now because I can I can look for it.
SPEAKER_01If a school fails to see your child through all the intersecting identities and experiences that your child has, then they're failing your child. Come on, I hear that. Sit with that because your child doesn't exist in a vacuum in one single environment. Like you said, they're carrying in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know it's like this. Yeah, I kind of feel a bit emotional, like weirdly. I think even just thinking of like my own story, like our own story as a little family, there's like loads of there's loads of moving parts. Yeah, and moving parts that it's really important to hold that. And I'm thinking back to like when I like I've learned so much to be curious about certain like behaviours we maybe see, of being like, there's a lot, there's a lot of moving parts here, and I think as a teacher, like how I wish I had done it better for some kids, or like how at times then it gave me now, especially that lens of being like there's lots of moving parts here. Like this child doesn't just exist on this chair where their name tag is, they exist in a whole world of Jimmy takes in, like you said, past grief, or yes, yeah, something's going on, like they they don't home something's going on home, and it and and it's relative, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01It doesn't have to be the big T's, it can be the little T's, and and for a child it's relative to their experience. I mean, like their favorite toy breaking could be a big T trauma for them. Do you know? And like and then having to then go into school with that.
SPEAKER_00And that's then me becoming more and more curious, a more empathetic practitioner when I understand a child exists outside this one place. And it doesn't mean that you have to know every single thing about their life in detail and like sit over the parent and be like, so tell me every single movement you have, like tell me everything about your life.
SPEAKER_01But there is that just empathetically understanding a little bit more of an understanding, like you know, it's really got me on. I know, even things like uh tell me about like it doesn't have to be like the intricate family connections or you know, relations. No, but like like I always ask like parents, like, what do you enjoy doing at home? Like what makes you your family so unique? Like, and it might be really simple things like we really we always go to the park on a Sunday after we have our Sunday lunch or whatever it whatever it is. We do movie nights on Friday night, or um it might be religion that intersects with that that's really important. It's it's factoring all of that in, and then you start to see the child in that context, then you start to understand the child's sort of their sensory profile in terms of like actually what makes them tick, what makes them regulate, what makes them joyful, what makes them angry? Start to record things so much. I always say to parents, like, before we can really begin to understand your child, we need to observe your child for as long as we can. So look for patterns. How are they Monday to Friday, morning to night? What are they like weekdays versus weekends? And can we start to identify some patterns within that?
SPEAKER_02I love that.
SPEAKER_01And like I said, don't just focus on the things that make them like when they're melting down. Actually, when are they at their most regulated? And what does that look like? What are they doing? Yeah, because that's information. It is, and you can gather that. Like for me, my my mom gave me this beautiful hand-knitted um wool blanket, and my kids gravitate to it because it weighs a ton. And my three-year-old is in his happy place, like after he's done a full day of nursery, he's got one cushion that he loves. I think it genuinely it's not just how it feels, I think it's like the smell of it almost, you know? And he's like that all-factory input. But he's on that, on that cushion, he's got the blanket pulled up right on him, and he's watching the most low-demand language shows. So they're the ones like Mr. Bean. Yeah, very good. Um Moolah, Moolang or whatever it's called, like things where there's very like minions. Yes. Where there's very little language input. Yeah, yeah. And he doesn't have to process words and language, he can just enjoy with the weight, and he's just so chill. So I know weight works for him, for example.
SPEAKER_00And that's that thing of like then noticing about your kids. And I like got I think even just taking from this, like what a complex journey and and a big job we all have, you know, but a beautiful, a beautiful job. Like, what a gift to be able to do that. I think like coming in to land then with this, if if we even can, coming in with that kind of quick equipping, because I know there's a few things I just want to make a wee bit of space for. We always end with like rapid fire at the end um of different things. So we'll work through this one tool or resource that you love, Emma. I'm gonna very cheekily pitch my own stuff.
SPEAKER_01Go for it, please. Yeah. So I have the emotion communication map, which, and again, everyone comes to me like, I want to know about the map, and I'm like, yes, that's just a really a byproduct. Let me I'm luring you in. Okay. The theory. I have created a theory, which is the social hyphen language, so the social language barrier of communication of emotions. And it and it explains every reason why, or at least I try to have pulled together all these intersecting theories and ideologies and frameworks to try and explain why we see quote-unquote emotional literacy difficulties in autistic ADHD individuals. So people who are very articulate but cannot communicate their emotions, cannot put their emotions into words. And I have a theory that pinpoints that.
SPEAKER_00Love that.
SPEAKER_01And I have a map that goes alongside that. And the map essentially is about supporting and facilitating. We said about communication at the start of this podcast, it facilitates connection and understanding. Yeah. And it takes language out of the equation because language is subjective, it carries neuronormative weight, uh, it will be ambiguous, and there will be a degree of a double empathy problem and unconscious bias when we use words. Okay. So let's take words out and let's make a sort of an uh a graph essentially where we can express and understand emotions without language.
SPEAKER_00Amazing.
SPEAKER_01It's client-led, it's child-led, it's person-led. It's not a hierarchy. Top down, I'm going to teach you how to name it's I want to understand how you're feeling. It's more neuroaffirming and it allows for nuance. Um, so yeah, I would access that. You can get in touch with me. Excellent. Yeah. So you can get in touch by my website. Yep. Yeah. Zebrotherapy.co.uk, or you can you can drop me an email which is emma at zebrotherapy.co.uk. And absolutely, I do training on it, uh, online webinars, and I do consultations on it. But I've got some really exciting news. There will be a book coming up next year.
SPEAKER_00I was wondering if you were going to share that. That's so good.
SPEAKER_01So there will be a little coming out next year. Final draft is due in later this year. So we're hoping to have a physical book. Brilliant. Um, so yeah, hopefully I will have a book out by next summer. Yes, I'm gonna have to have me back, won't you?
SPEAKER_00So it's I've been thinking this whole time. I'm like, oh, you know, how do you even try and close this? And I think the close is these conversations I just know aren't the end. And like, I think even when I first connected with you online, which you know, what a beautiful place. We're talking about the challenges of that, but a beautiful place in that um of being like, cool, like this is now a connection that we'll we'll definitely be having you back in many different platforms. Oh, they'd love to working together within that because I know that whole theory you've been working on is what so many parents are probably listening to that and be like, Oh my gosh, Tammy! So lots of avenues for that. Emma, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and just your kindness in that. So thank you very much everyone for listening and tuning in. And yeah, like drop us, like, um, make sure you're like following, but also if you want to like message and reach out to Emma, um, we'll put all her information in in the kind of description bit of the podcast. Emma, thank you so much. Thank you.