631 - The cheat code for tonechasers and Brian gets heated and drops an f-bomb

Brian and Richard are back for Episode 631 of the Chasing Tone Podcast - The cheat code for tonechasers and Brian get's heated and drops an f-bomb

With Blake away eating pizza at the Fretboard Summit, Brian and Richard are left holding the baby, and swear they won't open with AI...yeah, right....Richard professes that a possibly-AI peppered piano playlist pervaded his daughter's wedding (say that after a couple of ales), and Brian floats a theory about record labels, capitalism and the Dark Side of the Pop Tart. 

From the enshittification of everything to personalized audio recommendations, the guys land on the big question: if a machine just hands you Gilmour's tone from a single prompt, have you cheated the whole game? This somehow turns into a conversation about Brian's very specific coffee tastes. Brian also swears as he becomes heated and blows a gasket. 

Richard shares a genuine "they're using my stuff" moment as his Fuzz pedal gets complements from a band that Richard covers in his own band and he also discovers a piece of hardware that Brian needs to own.

The Illuminati, self-leveling frets, a Bass VI worth selling a kidney for, and the reason Brian should never set up his own guitar...it's all in this week's Chasing Tone!

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Transcript

Brian 0:06

Just the two of us.

Richard 0:12

Have I done that before? Every single time it's been just the two of us. Oh no, now I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Maybe I should make some AI music to make a song for us.

Richard 0:20

I hear it's very popular, Brian. That's what I should do. No word of a lie, I got sent a link to a Suno generated song by a listener to this show. I'm not gonna reveal who, because they may get hate mail afterwards.

Brian 0:35

I mean, I think there's applications to everything, so I don't hate it.

Richard 0:38

I just don't want to make an album and put it on Spotify. Right. And and he was just doing some experimentation with Suno. And he made a track that, quite honestly, if it was released 10 years ago, I would have bought. I was like, you kind of hit the money here. It was like he described somehow you nailed Eddie Vetter. I don't know how. Well, he described it as Pink Floyd meets Genesis with a touch of tears for fears. I'm like, I'm all over this. This is me.

Brian 1:04

But is that it's a fun thing to mess with. I get it, man. I just, you know, there's certain things I'm not gonna use it for.

Richard 1:11

Sure, you know, but is that the future of music, though? Is the future of music personalized music just for you?

Brian 1:18

Man, I hate to say this. This is gonna like piss so many people off. But if you were in control of a record label and you know that record labels basically control everything, the Illuminati. Right. I mean, as far as white music you're gonna hear, then um what would you rather? Would you rather pay an artist to fumble their way through making a hit song and paying them a bunch of money in the process? Or if you're in control of this music label, would you rather the almost free route and generate it with AI somehow? And still get people that don't give a damn at the end of the day if it's a real person or not. I will qualify.

Richard 2:00

Is the artist either Pink Floyd or the resurrection of David Bowie?

Brian 2:06

Okay, this is I'm saying this doesn't apply to me or you. You know, like for example, you know, I I'm making light. I don't want an AI George Lynch. You know, I don't I don't want that. I want the real George Lynch hopefully sitting in front of me teaching me how to play guitar like he does. But that's aside the point. My point is I don't want to hear AI version of George Lynch. No. Um, but there are people out there that just don't care. A big majority of people, and that's my argument, anyways. And I think that if they're like, I love the second lynch mob album, I would want a follow-up exactly like that with different songs. But there's people on there are probably not gonna care, and then and the record companies are gonna pay George to do it.

Richard 2:48

I mean, that's exactly what I was just thinking. What you know, what if you played something in Apple Music or Spotify and it went, we noticed you liked Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd. Here is a 10-hour playlist made entirely out of music that I've made that I think you'll enjoy based on Dark Side of the Moon. And we're gonna call this playlist Dark Side of the Pop Tart. Exactly.

Brian 3:12

Exactly.

Richard 3:12

Damn, that was my band name. Uh another one bites the dust. That's my other band. No.

Brian 3:19

People might might be wondering where why it seems a little empty today. Um I don't know.

Richard 3:26

What oh, you mean vocally?

Brian 3:28

Yeah, we're missing uh we're missing one of the three musketeers here.

Richard 3:32

We are. We're missing Mr. Blake Wyland, who has gone to Chicago to eat pizza for days, he said. I think that's what he's saying.

Brian 3:40

Well, I think that's one of the things he's doing there, but he's at the uh what's that event called? The fretboard summit. Fretboard Summit, thank you.

Richard 3:47

Yeah, um my my invite must have got lost in the post, but I'm just no one invited me. So don't feel bad. Who who are we? Just two random pedal company.

Brian 3:58

But to be fair, I probably wouldn't win anyway, so it's fine.

Richard 4:01

This is very true, and me neither.

Brian 4:03

I mean, nothing against them, it's like I have nothing to gain.

Richard 4:05

So yeah, well, that's wrong, because what you have to gain is pounds. Pounds by eating pizza. And trust me, in the last week I have gained pounds. Uh so just a little off topic from the AI for a minute. Uh, last week it was my daughter's wedding, Bri. Um, we are still waiting for the official photos. I will share something on the screen just for you. Oh, look at that.

Brian 4:32

Fantastic.

Richard 4:33

That's there you go. This is great listening. Really see it.

Brian 4:36

But anyway, imagine someone holding their phone up with a really bad glare.

Richard 4:41

Um, but it was my daughter's wedding. Uh, I delivered a speech, and I gotta say, after uh three, four hundred episodes of podcasting, I think I can deliver a speech now. Did did they play AI music at their wedding? Yes, maybe. So I put a playlist to I put a playlist together of piano versions of the cure and bowie and depeche mode and joy division and new order, like Leela's favorite bands, but just piano versions, so it's kind of classy sounding. I'm not entirely convinced that the cure wasn't AI because it was quite modern and it was very um there wasn't a lot of dynamic range to it. Like the notes were being hit, but there was not a lot of like crescendos or lots of compression, yeah. And yeah, and the arpeggio seemed very perfect, but no one noticed because it was background music, it was just playing, and a lot of it wasn't AI.

Brian 5:39

So here's another question. If you were a wedding planner and you're pledging this wedding, would you want to license that music from Depeche Mode or the cure or whatever? Or would you say Suno is almost free? And so, therefore, as the wedding planner, I'm going to use the almost free version.

Richard 5:58

Yeah, I mean, if if you're not like so, most weddings will have one of three things live music. You ain't doing that with Suno. That's hard to do with AI. That's hard to do with AI. Uh they will have a DJ. Well, that could use some AI, or they'll just have these days, it's very common, Spotify playlist that's put on shuffle and stuck in the background.

Brian 6:20

But still again, if you're a wedding player, at least in the States, you have to you have to pay for that. Like you can't just pull up Spotify, you have to license it.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Yeah.

Brian 6:28

And so that so that's my big complaint here. With a large group of a lot of people that would need to license music in some way, most will take the cheaper way out because capitalism does what capitalism does.

Richard 6:44

Well, and also it it look, if you're doing a wedding, budget is everything, right? Yeah, you really do care. So if it's background music, I think that's the perfect use for AI. If it's not music that people are actually listening to, if it if there just needs to be something in the background. I I had I had zero problem other than my own artistic sensibilities and and you know, beating myself up because of them, but I had zero problem like with this playlist having AI in it.

Brian 7:12

But but that's a real that's a real complaint among people that are not for this, is that you know there are musicians that that is trained off of, and th those people are not getting compensated. Much like whenever someone models a guitar amp and the manufacturer doesn't get compensated.

Richard 7:27

I see what you're saying. I I mean you make a point. The alternative was me and my acoustasonic guitar playing the hits of David Gilmore. So I can see, boys don't cry. I want to play piano, guys. Yeah, uh don't knock some of Robert Smith's early work. No, no, I'm I'm trying to mimic you, not Robert Smith. Sorry. Well, I I feel you've done both there. Uh so I read another I I hate myself, Bri. I'm just gonna let everyone know I do genuinely hate myself because I go into every episode like we will not start this off by talking about AI, and here we are talking about AI. But I read an article this week that certain secondhand booksellers on various platforms have seen sales spike, and they're like, Why are we suddenly selling loads of these secondhand books? And it is for scan and destroy operations where AI, yeah, they just buy the book, take all the pages out of it, feed it into their AI machine, and dump the the book. And wow that is apparently driving the sales in secondhand books. I wonder if that will have the same effect eventually on music. I wonder, I mean, I guess it's already available on the cloud.

Brian 8:50

So, what you're saying is I need to take my books, make a billion copies, and sell them on the secondhand market.

Richard 8:56

I I I well, firstly, I don't think there are a billion different AI models. And secondly, I'm pretty sure that AI only needs to read your book once.

Brian 9:05

If they're buying all of the secondhand books, then I just need to contribute to the secondhand market, right?

Richard 9:11

No, Bri, you're a genius. I you should immediately invest in 10,000 copies of your own book and keep the stock somewhere in your house, preferably blocking I don't know, a utility cupboard, a bathroom door, something like that. That's the that's the play here. But uh yeah, I I I do find myself, and again, look, I am a human being, so I I will be hypocritical from time to time and I'll say shit and then I'll think about it and reflect on it. Like, am I really stealing from someone if I'm using an AI rendition of the music? I guess I am. It's different than an AI composition, right? It's different than when AI just makes music because I'm actually taking somebody's intellectual property. Well, I'm not, somebody has taken somebody's intellectual property and respun it out as a piano version.

Brian 10:03

So that's that's kind of the reason I make the joke about the Eddie Vetter stuff, is because there's like I mentioned, I don't know, four or five episodes ago, there's old songs where I had like this cheesy guitar part, and you know, 16-year-old Brian wanted to know what that would sound like if it was a finished song. And I'm never gonna do anything with it, so I just did it. And we're gonna be able to do it. Well, I'm assuming uh you know, it's not at least like it's it's I just did it for me.

Richard 10:28

Yeah. You know, which is interesting.

Brian 10:30

But you know, and I get it back, and I'm like, that literally sounds like freaking Eddie Vedder singing the song. This is ridiculous.

Richard 10:36

I'm guessing that Eddie never responded to the tapes and letters you sent him when you were 16. Dear Mr. Vedder, my name's Brian, and I live in Indiana. I'm your biggest fan.

Brian 10:47

Yeah, I I wouldn't know. I'm not really allowed within several hundred feet of them. I don't I'm not sure.

Richard 10:54

Was it Eddie Vedder who scaled down from a stage once? I think it was, you know.

Brian 10:59

Yeah, that was at a big festival, yeah. Yeah, scaled down from uh from a microphone cable. Right. Wow. That could be a good one. Which is a great advertisement for microphone cables.

Richard 11:08

Yeah, they sold a lot more of those cables. Um, all I'm saying is it's a good job that they didn't go down from a no, I can't mention the company. Uh um and it's a good job it wasn't solderless because that would have come apart too. That would be bad. This is where wireless systems fail. Yeah, that wouldn't have been a good advertisement, wouldn't it? Well, well, speaking of um uh everything. Sure. Speaking of everything, speaking of everything, let's now discuss the other subject. Oh, I have been taken over by AI. Uh I don't know, man. I I am struggling with it because on the one hand, I know I've got to keep up to date with this technology because the future of humanity almost certainly depends on it.

Brian 11:57

It's like if you if you want to if you want to continue feeding your family, yeah, there's certain things you gotta do.

Richard 12:02

Yeah. So I have had to embrace it, and look, you know, I'll be brutally honest. I've had work just literally whipped from under my feet. There was a time when I could have rinsed Brian for every single image. I'd have just been like, you want an image, Brian? You're paying for my time. That ended about a year ago. You know, once uh Higgsfield got good enough for for Brian to start making images that you know he could use for testing or experimentation without me, I'm only used for the really clever stuff, isn't that right, Bly? That's what you told me.

Brian 12:41

That's right. If it involves something that's really good, that's when I call up uh another guy now. I I mean Richard.

Richard 12:48

Oh, whoa, but it has genuinely destroyed my business, right? And it not not you, clearly, um, but uh other parts of my business have just gone and web design is changing, and I've got to pivot and use these technologies. On the other hand, I do kind of hate that I've spent my entire life being a bastion of taste. Like for me, when I was 16, I'm sure this was the same for you, Bri. I judged you on your music taste. Like, if you told yeah, yeah, if you told me that you liked Madonna, Jason Donovan and Kylie Minogue, you were relegated to the this guy knows nothing about music category. Whereas if you'd have come to me and said, I love the doors, Jefferson Airplane, and Hendrix, I'd have been like, Come, brother, let us talk. And I really judge people on that. And that's a personality. Interesting.

Brian 13:39

Yeah, I've I don't know if I've ever done that really, other than saying, like, this person always listens to country, so they're probably more of a country musical.

Richard 13:47

I was hugely judgmental about people's music taste when I was a teenager. Yeah, interesting. And I think it's part of trying to fit in with the cool kids. You know, you go through that, I want to fit in, so I'm gonna just develop some views and stick to them. I was never able to achieve that, so I don't know. Well, I I had a long coat, I smoked a cigarette, I was there, Bri for five minutes. I was never one of the cool kids, but I was hugely judgmental about music and like to the point where I wouldn't listen to music that I probably enjoyed because the artists were not in the oeuvre that I wanted them to be in. So actually, it was a stupid move. But as a result, I have got fairly eclectic, wide-ranging, and detailed music tastes. And I think the day when I realized how bad technology was was when a guy I worked with who knew nothing about music, he liked nothing better than sitting in the back of his car on the way home from a meeting singing George Michael and Madonna songs at me. And I'd be like, This is worse than hell. And he one day went, Oh, have you ripped all your music to uh MP3? I went, Yeah, you want, oh, let me have your entire library, and I just thought, well, I can't say no, but at the same time, I've just gifted him like my entire life's like collecting of music, and he might develop cool tastes, and I don't like him. But that's what AI is doing in an like massive scale, it's giving everybody bland tastes because it is drilling everything down into like the the most palatable form and giving it to everybody.

Brian 15:35

There's a part of me that argues that everything is driven to be bland. Like, for example, for example, if you take what a taco uh you guys have taco bell with it, right? Yeah, we we definitely do. So even better than that, Popeyes is opening next week in Portsmouth. But if you look at a Taco Bell from 1985 or something, it had pizzazz, like you it stood out amongst all the other restaurants. Yeah. Now when you look at a Taco Bell, it could be a freaking Verizon building if they moved out. It could be a Pizza Hut, it could be literally anything. Because there's no there's no identity with it anymore. And it's not just Taco Bell, it's like everything. McDonald's is the same way. McDonald's used to have it a look, and now it's a beige freaking square building. Like it could be anything. They move out, it will be who knows what? Probably a laundromat. No one knows. But there's no identity there. And the weird thing, the reason why I bring it up is it seems like that that sentiment is transferred to everything. And you know why it is? It's because whoever owns the building, when McDonald's does move out, they can easily renovate it quickly and cheaply.

Richard 16:44

Sure, you can rent it, but your sign must be this big. And and McDonald's don't care. They're just like, sure, if we can get in and get out, fine, whatever. You're right.

Brian 16:53

I mean, that's kind of man. I don't want to throw anybody at the bus, but there's some of that that goes on in the guitar industry, too.

Richard 17:00

A lot of it goes on in the guitar industry, and uh the phrase that has been used in this country a lot is the in shittification of everything. It's just everything is becoming a little bit shitter, everything is like being boiled down to the lowest form of shit that it can be, and that's what AI is gonna do. It's gonna like uh so again, I'll give you another example. I saw a client's website. Now, this client is a guitar company that we were going to do a lot of work for, but let's put it this way in the time it's taken them to not even release their first guitar, I've thought of, created, and released an entire pedal company. So these guys who came to me three or four years ago with this idea, for whatever reason, they've just not been able to move fast, and that's fine, that's business, but it it's super slow. I went to their website the other day just to have a little look at it, they've got a tuner on it, you know, a guitar tuner. Like you can plug your guitar in and play it through the speakers or whatever, and it'll it'll be a tuner. And I had a number of thoughts on that. I was like, well, one, that's pretty cool. Uh two, 10 years ago, that would have been a killer app to have on your website. Three, at no point have I ever sat there and thought, I'm playing this song, my guitar's out of tune. Let me just go to this one guitar company's website and use their tuner app.

Brian 18:22

I've noticed there's a lot of different uh guitar-based entities. So whether it's you people that teach courses or people that have YouTube, like or I mean, like it's it's not just like guitar companies, for example, that I'm because you can vibe code so many different things now, everyone's using it to well not a lot of people are using it to do silly things that aren't needed, like make tutors in an in a web-based app on a guitar website. Like, okay, okay, but like that's not very handy for when I need a tuner often.

Richard 18:57

No, but it's a great example of the initification of things. Yes. Every guitar company will now have a tuner on their website, and it will be vibe coded and it'll be completely useless because as you say, no one's going there, and it's right. I just, yeah, I feel you just wait.

Brian 19:14

There's gonna be, if there isn't already, there might be, I don't know, but there'll be websites where you type in, I want to sound like David Gilmore from X Song, and it says, Oh, well, based on the boss tube screamer you have, set the tone control at noon and the gain at three o'clock. And like, well, not really, like, that's not at all going to get me there, but okay, I guess. Someone's gonna make an app that does some something.

Richard 19:41

There already are. I mean, that brings up the Inspire Pro guitar, which for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, it's by a company called Enya. I just think of Orinoco Flow. I just go, Sailor, way, Sailor, but that's just me. Uh never knew she was related to Clan Ad either. There you go. Um, Brian. Do you remember the song Smooth Up Enya?

Brian 20:05

Remember the song? I don't, I don't know. From the 80s? No. Well, I uh I was driving a car once and that song was playing, and I wrecked my car. That's well, I know that song. That song is playing. Brilliant.

Richard 20:16

Anyway, um, yeah. The Enya Inspire Pro, Brian, is a carbon fiber electric guitar with real pickups and a real tram and real doohickeys. But it's good. Love the doohickeys. You've got to have the doohickeys.

Brian 20:29

But it's got I've been looking. Actually, let me find how much doohickeys are on Sweetwater real quick.

Richard 20:34

They've just gone down by no, they've gone up again. No, they've gone down. Two and a half percent tariff. Okay. Oh, and I realized I'm actually I'm actually giving, and I'm not gonna change it at any future American customers, but I'm actually giving my American customers two and a half percent discount. Because actually the tariff to send stuff to America right now is 12.5%. I thought it was 10. So everyone who buys an Oliver Effects pedophiles. It depends what day you send it. There is that. Tomorrow it may be 40. Who knows? All right, tangent upon tangent upon tangent. But did you know, Bri, that in Russia right now, some parts of Russia have an odd number um system for bone petrol. I think the title of this podcast should be the ADHD Day. No, I'm I'm serious. If it if you're in Russia, in certain parts of Russia, if your registration plate ends in an odd number, you can buy fuel on odd numbered days. And if your registration plate ends in an even number, you can buy fuel on even numbered days. That's fantastic. Hey, what were we talking about? So the Inspire Pro by Enya, a carbon fiber guitar with a built in 20 watt speaker array. It looks like it's two three and a half inch speakers in there. Uh and I'm not gonna lie, the video makes it sound pretty good. And it's it's more than that because it's also got full onboard guitar effects modeling. You've got options to go. You know, direct into headphones, just play through the inbuilt speaker, or go into an amp. You can go into your DAW and you know have your effects before or after a certain part, etc. So all kinds of clever stuff. But the thing that brings it into what we were discussing is it has an app that lets you choose what tones, what models you use, and it already has a built-in AI um synthesizer. So you just say to it, I want to sound like Brian Wompler chicken picking in a goat shed in Indiana, and it will go dialing in one tumus and a little bit of slapback. There you go.

Brian 22:41

Another bit of goat. Just dial in some goat, man.

Richard 22:43

Dial in some goat. But it made me think about this, Bri. Is like we we've talked about how AI will make us more lazy. Is part of the fun of chasing a tone the chase? Or do we just want to go straight to the tone?

Brian 23:00

I think there's different types of players. I think some players the chase of a tone is stupid and annoying to them. And it's not even like a good player or a bad player. Like, I I know some great players like I don't care, just get out of the way so I can play. You know? And then I know some other people that like Steve I, for example, he is so into tone. You wouldn't like you may not know that, but he is into the precise details of what's inside the pedal.

Richard 23:28

We should send him a pedal head and see if he can uh figure out.

Brian 23:32

He may or may not have one already. So, anyways. So, anyways, moving on. Um Yeah, so I think there's just different types of players. Some people are really into it, some people really just are into the guitar, and they'll use um uh what's his name, Jack? Um White? Shh. No, Jack used to play in the almond brothers. Hang on, let me look at my contacts. Hang on. Um Jack don't go anywhere. Don't Jack Pearson. Jack Pearson famously like would just use uh you know, just any old cheap guitar. I'm like, oh this is fine, this will work. Yeah, I mean we've And it sounds great, sounds great no matter what he plays.

Richard 24:13

We've spoken about um uh the oh I forget the name of the guitarist from Genesis, the current guitarist, um, who's actually their bass player. The really tall guy. Phil Collins. No, that I have no idea. That that that is definitely not them. Uh it is Mike Rutherford, um, brilliant player, you know, famously used to play an awesome looking bass. Um, plays quite a bit of guitar with Mike and the Mechanics and with Genesis now, and just takes a squire on stage. It's good enough. You know, that's all he needs as a squire. He's ready to go. And it makes you realise that yeah, it equipment is more for the hobbyists. But this is what I'm saying the hobby is not just the playing, the hobby is everything for me. Like trying to get Gilmore's tone is as much about trying to learn how to play like Gilmore as it is about trying to use pedals that are similar to Gilmore and dial them in similarly. And if AI just goes, there's your Gilmore tone, do I is it a bit like having a cheat code in a computer game? Like we all want to see the end level of a computer game, but when you do it via a cheat code, you miss out on all the fun of the game. Yeah, you've seen the end level, big deal, but you've missed the whole game.

Brian 25:34

And If the game if the game is the sound, yes, but if the game is the songwriting, for example, it doesn't play that big of a part for some people.

Richard 25:43

No, no, I and I get that, but I think for me, the game is all of it. It's the sound, it's the songwriting, it's the technique. And I feel that what AI is leading us to with these kind of tone systems that you're gonna see in all modelers that are just like, what do you want to hear? I want a Leslie mic via uh SM57 through an old beer canister, and it'll go, here you go. This is what it sounds like, you know, and I think we're gonna see a lot of that, and it's gonna get very dull very quickly.

Brian 26:15

So I so I I'm probably at somewhere a little bit different, sort of there, but for example, as everyone knows, I'm huge into like distorted dirty tones, right? And it's because it's because I've thought about this, I look at it like coffee, you know, where yes, there's you can just get coffee from wherever, but some people are really into a certain bean from a certain location, that's roasted a certain way, that's glassware that's like in a chemistry set to brew one cup. And so to me, like it's like coffee. I that's why I love so many distortions because they're like all different flavors of coffee.

Richard 26:55

And look, this is an interesting um, this is an interesting point, actually, Brian, because my closest friend who is the same guy who doesn't care for music and would happily listen to an AI generated playlist, buys Amazon basic instant coffee. That's all he drinks. Amazon basic he literally can't tell the difference between a good coffee and that. Whereas for me, I can tell if a coffee has been ground freshly or not. That's all that matters. If you're making coffee, the way you make it is less important than just grinding beans.

Brian 27:31

Even just the the type of coffee pot, the brand, the model, like all this stuff is huge. So my my family makes fun of me because like you can just end it there. My family makes fun of me. That's enough. But but for one reason in this particular area, it's because I will only drink coffee from one specific coffee maker that that I insist on buying every time.

Richard 27:53

What what make is it, Brian?

Brian 27:55

It's a bun. No, that's that's the type of. So it's not that it's the best, that it's it's good enough for me to get my day started. I'm having a look at it now. Bun, coffee. And there's a bunch of different ones. I forget the exact model. I'd have to look it up in my Amazon bit.

Richard 28:10

Um Okay, so so that is from what I'm looking at, these are your basic filter drip coffee makers.

Brian 28:18

But it it holds water, it always holds hot water, so it makes it very quickly. But also the the way and the the way that it sprays the water on the coffee makes a difference. The temperature that it sprays on the water makes a difference. The quality of water that you put inside of it makes a difference. Yeah. So like I I use just this is stupid. I insist on using a certain type of water, a certain brand of water to put it in my coffee maker.

Richard 28:43

Use bottled water for your coffee.

Brian 28:45

Because it tastes you. That well, so I'm saying, like, I I'm really not that fancy among everything else, but I am a stickler on freaking coffee. Like it's it's it's Guatemalan beans, it's this brand, it's roast because it's roasted this way. Wow. Um and then and it's Guatemalan beans from Antigua. That's different. That's a city in so interesting because um I I mean I'm sort of there.

Richard 29:13

I have a very basic coffee maker. It's um oh, it's uh it is a an American brand. Um, I forget the name now. If I just type in Mr. Coffee, no, no, no, no. It'll come up. Uh but I use no, it's uh we've had that conversation, they don't exist over there. Um god, it's a really simple make, like I forget what it is. Okay, so in art it is. Quizzing art. That's okay. Yeah, I got you. And it's a very simple, you put coffee beans into the grinder, it grinds them and it pumps its water up. It's got a little filter element in it, so it's got a carbon fiber, uh, carbon fiber, carbon filter, so it filters the water a little bit, right? Uh, and it just drips it in. It's just a regular coffee machine. No, no, like like fluff, none of that. And it makes a really, very good carp of coffee. And I just have the same beans delivered by Amazon, funnily enough. I get the same beans as well. Yeah, just every every month I have the same beans.

Brian 30:13

In fact, I have a really big problem because my normal beans are out of stock. Well, mine's doubled in price. They're more expensive, too. But I'm frantically trying to find Antigua Guatemalan beans with the same roast that are similar to what I've been drinking.

Richard 30:27

Sounds like a business opportunity for the Oliver.

Brian 30:30

I mean, do you live in Antigua? No, but I would very easily be able to fake you a label that says I do. It's a beautiful city if you want to move and make some coffee for me.

Richard 30:39

But again, you know, we we each have our coffee preferences, they're not a million miles away from each other. Like that, they are consistent. We we both like it a certain way, and it's not particularly fancy. Like I say, I've seen people making coffee using chemistry equipment.

Brian 30:56

You know, people I would totally, if I had the extra time, like if I was awake enough in the morning, I would totally do something different. Absolutely, 100%.

Richard 31:03

And and you know, I went for a phase of spending a fortune at Starbucks because we've got one a mile away, and you know, it was like uh which I would argue is not that great a coffee, but it's convenient. Well, yeah. Uh and also compared to the coffee, like the coffee we grew up in this country on was all instant, disgusting coffee. What?

Brian 31:25

Yeah, I haven't drink instant coffee since I was probably five.

Richard 31:28

I was probably about 20 when I gave up. I mean, I still have to have it from time to time in offices where that's all they've got.

Brian 31:35

We should pause for a second in case you're just joining the conversation. We're analogizing coffee with distortion, in case you're wondering. Uh but um I've I've lost the plot now.

Richard 31:48

I don't know where I've gone.

Brian 31:50

So you were talking about how um, you know, you used to drink instant coffee, but you now have a certain type of coffee pot.

Richard 31:58

So the most important thing for me is freshly ground beans. Now it seems one of the most important things for you is is the water.

Brian 32:06

I've never tried Well, the it has to be it has to be fresh ground too. That's just kind of a given to me.

Richard 32:11

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that I think that's the biggest upgrade you can make to your morning Joe is make sure you just grind the beans fresh every time. Everything else, forget about it.

Brian 32:21

And in the same way, I think when dealing with distortion overdrive pedals, there's certain things that you want to do if you want it to be a certain way. Which is why, like, for example, while I think a lot of pedals on the market do just fine, for my particular purposes, I am so finicky that I prefer to make my own. Which is how I got started because I I didn't like what was available. I was making them for me.

Richard 32:46

And actually, although I make a joke about uh, you know, the the origins of Oliver effects and all that, it's also how I got started because I was looking for a muff style fuzz that didn't get oversaturated, that I could use for any solo ever, and it still sounded articulate. And when I found it, I was like, everyone else needs to hear this. Uh, but yeah, I'm glad to hear that you only use bottled water when you make your distortion pedals. That's really important.

Brian 33:14

Yes, bottled water with distortion pedals is the way to go. It's it's what stills in the tone.

Richard 33:20

This does bring me on to uh conveniently another point, um, which is I had that pedal moment in this last week. Now I mentioned this on the Patreon.

Brian 33:30

That was last week, yes.

Richard 33:31

But but this one's a slightly different one, Brian, right? Because I mentioned this on the Patreon, which we recorded on Saturday, and today is Tuesday as we record this. So apologies if you're gonna hear this twice. But one of the early uh purchasers of the Purple on Fuzz was our good friend Paul Cudderford, who plays the Boomtown Rats. He was on the podcast a few years ago. He was, uh, and he we should get him on again, actually, because he's done some amazing things since then. Check this out, Brian. I I had this exact conversation with Blake. So let's see how it goes with you. Name one of the biggest American bands still touring. Lynch Bob. Number two biggest American band. Like, if I said to you Garth, okay, I'm gonna narrow it down. Biggest American hair soft rock band. Hair, soft rock band? Give me some examples. Uh uh, okay. Um hair, soft rock band. What the hell does that even mean? Like very famous chart success. Like poison? Like poison, but bigger. Motley Crue? Like Motley Crue, but bigger. Guns and Roses. Like Guns and Roses, arguably not bigger. But on a on a pile. I don't follow this enough. I don't know. I'm gonna give you a clue, Bri. You're halfway there. Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi, right? Now, would you argue with me that they're one of the biggest touring? Our good friend Phil X plays for Bon Jovi, I think. And you know, Richie Sambora was an amazing guitar player. Um some of the greatest tones committed to record, okay? Yeah. Boomtown Rats with Paul Cutterford are opening for flipping Bon Jovi. That's awesome. When I saw that, I was like, uh and we were casually chatting, and he went, Oh, yeah, that reminds me. I was playing the purple on Fuzz the other day. He said the guitarist from Madness heard it. I was like, what? And he's like, Yeah, he thought it was really good. He said, Also, uh, we're at a festival and and feeder were there, and they all loved my tone, dude, and it was all through your pedal. I'm like, dude, in my band, we cover a feeder song. We do Buck Rogers, which is one of their songs. Dude, this is how mind-blowing is this, Brian.

Brian 35:49

So it's oh, it's fantastic, especially when it happens. Like when it happens and it's never happened before, literally, it literally makes you weak. For absolutely for sure. A hundred. I I distinctly remember like the first big name artists, and then I was just like, oh my god, I can't believe they're using my stuff. Um, but I would argue this. You know how you've seen memes on the internet about, oh, I will pay you in exposure bucks. Yep. This is how business works. If you get a free pedal on someone's board who goes to these festivals, oh I see. Oh, I see where this is going, Brian. And people like it, you're going to be exposed to all these different artists. And then they're going to do interviews and they're going to do rig rundowns. And that's part of the marketing. So, yes, exposure bucks is a fucking real thing.

Richard 36:39

It is. Oh, we're now going to have to mark this as an explicit episode. Um, sorry. But Brian has the sweats.

Brian 36:45

That is that is a passionate point. But it is a passionate. I do not like the idea where people argue about exposure bucks. No, exposure bucks are real.

Richard 36:53

Smart exposure bucks are good. No, they are. Look, I've already spent some, you know. I sent a pedal off to Tom Quayle. Uh, I couldn't afford to pay him any cash. And I said, look, dude, uh, here's my pedal. Can you just do me like a couple of minute demo? Please, please. And he was like, Of course. And he did like a 10-minute wonder demo. I was like, dude, that's amazing. I was like, after the episode we did, you like, you should send one to Dan and Mick. I was like, I should, but I know how busy those guys are, and it may not even get on there, but hey, what have I got to lose? And I sent them one and forgot about it almost. Yeah. And then suddenly my phone's blowing up and it's all over the internet. And you know, it it's moved a couple, could do with moving a few more if anyone's thinking about buying it.

Brian 37:38

Well, but keep in mind that's that's an evergreen video. So who the hell knows what's going to happen for the next three years, five years, ten years?

Richard 37:44

Exactly that. Um, and you can't beat it, but it it I really wanted to just share the moment with you because I know you've had that same moment. I know you've had that kind of he's using my stuff. And I knew Paul had bought one. And and look, Paul is an absolute gent and a true friend, and so much sober. I probably shouldn't tell you this, but I gave him my own personal black 65, and we don't have any more black 65s, so I kind of screwed myself. But he was using it on a tour, and I was like, you need this pedal, dude. He's real see that now that floors me. What is he using that for? Um I will find out whether he's still using it and what he was using it for for you.

Brian 38:28

Because to me, like it's you know, keep in mind we designed that in like 2014 or something, but that was super handy to have in case like you needed some sort of direct, um, you know, direct path into some sort of cabinet simulator.

Richard 38:43

He was not using it like that. I think he was using it more as a kind of uh like I'm gonna say gain polisher, you know, just kind of like add a little bit more grit and texture before the gain kicks.

Brian 38:57

Another thing I like to do with that is use it as a preamp into a uh effects uh effects return.

Richard 39:02

Yeah, you know. Oh, I wonder if that wonder if that will work with I've said too much. Um, but so he's a like I say, good friend, real gentleman, bought one of my pedals straight away, really just to support me. Like he'd never heard it or anything, and he's using it like live with one of the biggest post-punk bands. Okay, you know, arguably he has come in late in the day to this band and they're past their peak. That doesn't matter, they're touring with frickin' Bon Jovi. Uh, but um yeah, it's uh unreal, Brian. I have another point to make. Two two very quick points to make. One, if you're an artist and your name begins with Lil, I'm not listening to you unless it's Lily Allen. If your name is Lil Wayne, Lil Wayne, yeah. Yeah, Lil Brian, Lil Blake, forget it. I have never seen an artist.

Brian 39:59

Can you trust someone that can't even be bothered to spell little?

Richard 40:03

I don't think you can, Brian. I think that is a marker right there.

Brian 40:07

Um I mean, it's it's only a few more letters, just spell it out.

Richard 40:12

Use an apostrophe as well. Come on. Uh so I'm not happy with anyone that uses Lil as their prefix.

Brian 40:19

I you know, that's I of course I'm familiar with Lil Wayne, but I have never heard any music that I would recognize. I don't think it's not my thing, there's not much distortion in that.

Richard 40:28

So not enough, certainly. Um the next thing, Floyd Rose have put out a limited edition paisley etched trim. And Bri Paisley etched trim. So it's got like the paisley symbols in like white and black on the uh etched into the metal, okay. And then etched into the metal is the paisley pattern. That's interesting. That looks cool, man. Beautiful trim unit.

Brian 40:57

I want that badly. Just a cure out of curiosity. Well, actually, a couple of curiosities. One, is anyone offering this service on the side? Like let's say they have you know a CNC machine or something, and maybe I want Wampler emblems all over my Tremolo. Yes. Yes. That's one question. Uh, another question is what other things besides Paisley do they do any other designs?

Richard 41:21

Not that I know. Um, this is the first time I've ever seen a custom-etched because Brad Paisley doesn't really use many not known as the king of the wham, the whammy bar, is he? Yeah. But it you know, it doesn't matter. This thing looks hot, and I think this is your excuse to start building a kind of super strat country fied guitar as a project. Like Paisley strat body, but humbucker pickups.

Brian 41:53

Um, I don't like locking Floyd's on on strats. I think this podcast has just ended here. Well, I mean, because to me it belongs on a different guitar. Like, for example, I got Ivanes. Yeah, Superstrat. It works true for that. Yeah. Um, my super strat, which is the one I broke the neck on a while back, it does not. It has a standard tremolo on it. That doesn't qualify. But the um so the Sinister Gates uh Schechter, that's got a locking trim. It's fantastic. Yeah, fantastic guitar. What else do I have? I'm trying to I think that's the only thing I have with a locking trim.

Richard 42:26

I'm really gutted I never got one of those Sinister Gates guitars.

Brian 42:29

I want like a Jackson that's neon that takes me back to when I was a kid, man. Yeah, me too.

Richard 42:33

Uh oh, dude, I've posted something on the um Wampler um uh social media feeds this week. It was a Jackson that our good friend Ben Carlin spotted in a shop. Oh it's a beautiful green body and a beautiful green back neck. And what's nice about it, it's kind of sandwiched the green in between the headstock finish, and it just looks so good. I'm still there, dude. But I think I think you need to make a neon pink paisley like spiky guitar. I think that's a project for you waiting to happen, bro.

Brian 43:06

You're you mean to build a guitar?

Richard 43:07

Yeah, yeah, build a guitar.

Brian 43:09

That is not happening. Last point for today. I am and this is because I am that is one thing I'm terrible at. Rubbish. I am terrible at setting up guitars. Rubbish. I know. And this is coming from a guy that like used to build cabinets and instrument houses. Yeah, you can build a house. But I'm like, uh, I don't know. I every time I hand my guitar to the guy that works on my guitars, I'm like, I don't know how I screwed this up so bad, but somehow I've completely messed this whole thing.

Richard 43:37

Somehow all of the frets on this are at different heights. I don't know how I've done it, but please fix it. Um ever invented a multi-height fret guitar? Oh, that's another invention for Wompl Oliver.

Brian 43:52

I like frets that you can raise up and down.

Richard 43:56

You know, you've got like a little kind of crank.

Brian 44:00

Candle at the size, or even just like uh uh you know, a digital digital button, you know, just lowers. I mean, I'm not being funny, imagine that, right?

Richard 44:09

Wow, that would be so cool, right? That's what I'm saying. Yes, last subject for today involves one of our wonderful patrons because I caught uh an article in Premier Guitar about Grez guitars, uh, and Barry is a patron, and thank you, Barry. We appreciate that, and uh it it's had a number of effects. One, it's made me realize I really do like the work he does, and I I've been a fan of his guitars for a while. He is a master, yes. And two, it's made me realise I need one of his base sixes because I've been after a base six for a while, and someone did once mention to me, I know names mentioned Blake Wyland, that Grez guitars may make a good one, but I never really looked at it, and so I was reading this article, and it was more about how he'd become famous for like bass guitars recently and like moved over to that. I was like, interesting, and then I saw it, Bri. I saw this lovely uh basics looking uh Grez guitar. I'm like, yes, I need one. So, Barry, we're gonna have to talk about that, I'm afraid. Um, but kudos to him. He's what I didn't realize is he came from apogee interfaces or software, I guess. I didn't know that. So he's been in the industry a long time. He's a I'm gonna say he's a bit of a genius, and he could probably invent us our self-leveling fret system that we're gonna say. I was gonna say, has he thought about making frets move up and down on the frontboard? Barry, if you're listening to this, talk to me. Let's do a licensing deal. Me, you, and Brian. I came up with the idea what you could license off me. Yeah, I mean, it'll be a standard Brian license, which is 90% to Brian and 10% to Brian. But other than that, right. Brian's very fair in business listeners. I'm just ripping him for the lolz. But I'm seriously impressed with you.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

I'm known to be the shyster. You know, that's that's that's my personality.

Richard 46:06

It really isn't, Bri. I wish more people were like you. Right, we're running out of time, so I'm going to say a huge thank you to all of our executive producers, Bri. Is that all right? Yeah. Okay, so big thanks to Bill Bays, Andrew Atkins, David Tyndall, Dave Trombetti, Eric Wilson, Vidar Frost, and Michael Freer, Sean Arbo of Gun Street Wiring, Rick Calhoun of Honeypick, some awesome new picks uh that I've seen on their website. I'm just saying. Patrice Fournays, Dylan Talks Tone, who is on the tone mob this week, I believe, or next week, or whenever. Uh, Missouri Electrical Box Company, Kevin Harrington, Barry from Grez Guitars, maker of the finest bass six this planet has ever seen. Tom Kelly, Jake Young of the Man the Helm podcast. Uh Pigsy, John O'Neill, Robert Carr, Hunter Hudson, uh Robbie Stokes, Nikki Spano, uh, Sasha Sir, Jay Stratton, Harry Post. That's Jay Stratton of the Hitchhikers. Harry Post, Grumpy Mike, Harvey Pedles, Allison Carroll, Bum Lazery, Anthony Steve. Someone's putting Y's on all of these. Atta plays guitar, Philip Carter of the 40W podcast. We love you, bro. Christopher Logan, Jason Engelhart, Dylan Lewis of Leeward Sound, Josh, James Thompson, Colin Littlejohn. He's got a cool channel. He does some cool stuff. Uh Michete of Odin, Derek Lyons, Darth Bagel, Dustin Romero, the Wizard of Waz, Crappy Tom, Bud Cole, Sentient Ponytail. I enjoyed our conversation about that last week. DJ Farns, Kyle Viana, Robert Hahn. You changed that too. John Hill, Nickel. Okay. Kyle Ray, your face. Dave, Evangelista of the Guitar Dads podcast. Roxy Gwynn already had a why in it. Derek Howe, Churchill of Cam Girls, plus Rossi Edwards, and William E. Pricey. Uh, you are all wonderful people, except Brian Wompler, who's double wonderful.

Brian 48:10

All right. We'll talk to you next week. Bye. Thanks for listening to the Chasing Tone Podcast. If you have any comments, questions, or concerns, shoot me an email at podcast at womplerpedals.com and I'll personally get your email. You can reach Blake at infotonemob.com. Richard is Richard at WamplerPedals.com. If you want to support the show, the easiest and free way is just to share this episode with a friend, leave a rating and review wherever you listen. Helps more than you know. Be sure to check out Blake's other podcast called the Tone Mob for even more guitar talk. And if you love pedals, of course, check out WamplerPedals.com. If you're curious about designing and building your own guitar pedals, head over to guitarpedalcourse.com for step-by-step courses. And for bonus content, behind the scene discussions, and extra fun, join us on patreon.com slash chasing tone podcast. Thanks again. We'll talk to you next week.