Welcome to The Extra Shot, our bonus episodes where it's just Cait and Jenna, no guest, and the inside thoughts fully become outside thoughts.

This one started with an Amy Poehler Good Hang clip about TV writing and spiraled into our whole theory of everything: talent is a dime a dozen, so the thing that actually sets you apart is being someone people want in the room. Easy to work with. Cool. Chill. A good hang. We talk about why that's true for authors, editors, podcasters, honestly anyone in the arts, and why we'll bump a book to the top of our TBR the second we fall in love with the human who wrote it (hi, Julie Murphy).

We also get into:

• The good hang thesis, and why moderate talent plus kindness beats brilliance plus bad vibes
• Limelight and Book Break episodes: what they are, why they're booking up fast, and how to grab a spot (yes, they can be about your editing, PR, cover design, or illustration services too, not just books)
• Trad vs indie, and why you're allowed to do both. Cait's querying this fall AND indie publishing the next one. Diversify the portfolio, figuratively and literally
• The great editing debate: dev edit vs copy edit, when a manuscript is actually ready to hand off, and why a high-expectations genre like fantasy might call for a developmental editor from the start
• Our ever-growing TBR guilt, reading on 2x speed, and the impossible task of finding time to read for fun when every book we feature is genuinely that good

Whether you went trad and came back to indie, or went indie and are eyeing trad, we want the tea. Slide into our DMs.

Booking a Limelight or Book Break is also, apparently, how you get Jenna to make your content. That's the whole secret.