013. Why Alberta Needs Strong Accessibility Legislation

Episode Summary:

In this episode of We Advocate, Gordon and Annie welcome Michelle Christensen and Sam Mason for an important conversation about accessibility, systemic barriers, and why Alberta urgently needs strong, effective accessibility legislation.

While disability policy is often discussed in terms of income supports or services, this episode zooms out and asks a broader question: What kind of society are we building if people with disabilities still face preventable barriers in work, transportation, communication, justice, housing, and everyday life?

Michelle and Sam bring years of advocacy experience to the discussion and help unpack why accessibility legislation is not just a legal issue, it’s a dignity issue, a participation issue, and a human rights issue.

Why this matters:

Accessibility doesn’t just affect one narrow group of people. It affects:

• people with visible and invisible disabilities
• seniors
• parents with strollers
• people recovering from injury
• workers, students, and volunteers
• anyone who needs systems, spaces, and services to function well

This episode highlights that accessibility is not only about ramps and parking stalls. It’s about whether people can fully participate in society without constantly being forced to advocate for basic inclusion after the harm has already happened.

Alberta remains one of the only provinces in Canada without accessibility legislation. That matters.

Key Takeaways:

• Accessibility legislation is about prevention, not just reacting after discrimination happens
• Accessibility affects far more people than many realize
• Alberta’s current approach is fragmented and inconsistent
• Businesses and institutions often are not trying to exclude people, they simply don’t know how to remove barriers
• Accessibility legislation could create consistency, accountability, and better long-term outcomes
• A more accessible Alberta would mean more dignity, participation, and opportunity for everyone
• The disability community must be included in the design of these systems, not consulted after the fact

Memorable lines:

“We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. We just need to bring the wheel here.”

“The harm is already done by the time someone reaches the human rights process.”

“As a society, we should be judged by how fully we include people.”

Resources & Links:

Barrier Free Alberta

Learn more, sign up as a supporter, and explore their campaign:
 https://barrierfreeab.ca

Disability Advocates

More information and podcast episodes:
 https://disabilityadvocates.ca

Transcript

Welcome to the We Advocate podcast. My name is Gordon VanderLeek and I'm joined with my co-host Annie VanderLeek from the division of our firm Disability Advocates. Welcome Annie to the podcast. Hello everyone. Today is a special recording because we have a couple of guests and usually it's Annie and I talking but we're delighted that we found a topic which we think is certainly relevant to the disability community and timely.

And I think it's going to be for our audience one that we can learn from because I know in preparation for this episode, I've learned a bunch. So the topic today is why Alberta needs strong accessibility legislation. Why are we concerned about accessibility? It doesn't affect everyone.

who has a disability, but for a lot of people it does. And I know that our guests today, Michelle and Sam, have spent a lot of time thinking about this and a lot of time talking about it and a lot of time advocating for it. So first of all, Michelle, welcome to the podcast. Thanks. Great to be here. Yeah. And then I'll turn Sam to you in a second, but maybe Michelle, why don't we start by just introducing yourself to our audience?

Sure. My name is Michelle Christensen, and I am the Manager of Government Relations and Advocacy with Cerebral Palsy Alberta. Great. And I think cerebral palsy has had an interest in this topic for some time, right? My sense is you've been advocating certainly probably on mobility issues in general or accessibility issues, but that's probably been part of your...

job description and part of your advocacy for some time, I would imagine. Well, it certainly has. Actually, the Barrier Free Alberta movement started under the Alberta Ability Network, which is a collaborative of more than 100 disability organizations and people with lived experience who come together to take a look at issues, network together, share resources.

We had five tables, and one of the tables was the human rights table. And from that table was the Establishment to Barrier Free Alberta, looking specifically at accessibility legislation. Excellent. And Sam, also welcome to the podcast. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule. Certainly a background as a disability advocate and somebody with specific interests in this area. So just introduce yourself to our audience.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm Sam Mason. I use they, them, and she, her pronouns, just for everyone to know. I, yeah, I started with Barrier Free Alberta before it had a name, before it was Barrier Free Alberta, on the Alberta Human Rights, Alberta Ability Network's Human Rights Table. I was working at the time with an organization, Voice of Albertans with Disabilities, some people might know. I was there for several years and

Barrier for Alberta was a big part of my work there. And then I've moved on more to do more on human rights work, kind of more in general, I guess. But this legislation is something I will hopefully see until the end. That's the plan. Yeah, excellent. So very specific interest in that area. So why don't we jump into that?

I guess, the topic about a barrier-free Alberta, and Annie kicked that off. Yeah, so you've talked a little bit about sort of the group of people together and how it sort of started, but maybe give us a little more detail on, yeah, just what you're looking at for barrier-free Alberta and how this movement really began. It sounds like in that meeting on that time, but tell us a little bit more about that.

You want me to start? Okay. Yeah, so it's, I mean, like we said, it started with a bunch of organizations getting together, you know, looking at systemic change. I think a lot of it was driven at the time by the Human Rights Commission, you know, noticing just in general statistics, and these statistics are the same today, that a large majority of complaints are disability related and employment related specifically in the human rights process. That to say,

that um you know we are looking for a way to sort of preempt or prevent the harm from happening or discrimination from happening um and then you know working in the disability sector uh we obviously agreed with that and we're trying to find ways um you know and looking to

Our neighbors to the south who had introduced their accessibility act in the 90s and then our friends to the east in Ontario who introduced their act. It was sort of like, oh, we don't need to reinvent a wheel. We just need to bring the wheel here. And so that's what we continue to do today. I don't know, Michelle, if you want to go further into it. Well, I would add that Alberta is one of the only one of two provinces that does not have accessibility legislation. So through this process, we've seen other provinces.

get accessibility legislation, and here we are, it's Alberta and Prince Edward Island are the two provinces in Canada without this protection. So the legislation will identify, prevent, and remove barriers. And when we think about barriers, we often think about people with disabilities, but think about when you're trying to go around with your children in a pram, or you've had a short-term injury, you've got a broken foot, you're in a cast. So removing these barriers will be helpful for so many people, seniors.

So identifying and preventing is so critical, like Sam said, with the human rights. It's the harm is done. So people are having to react to the harm that's been done. The onus is on them versus a systemic address to these barriers. Right. And I would sort of agree with Gord on the fact that though I work as a disability advocate, this wasn't sort of real clear in my head sort of.

what we're talking about as far as accessibility. I think it's so much greater than what I first thought. And so tell us a little bit about what makes this movement different. Like maybe you feel like you've sort of moved it along and there's some excitement about something might be happening. But talk to me a little bit about that, especially you, Sam. I think there's a great deal of...

of you in wanting to really push forward and seeing that. So, so tell us sort of what makes it different, but maybe also what, what a strong and effective legislation would look like, like, how do we make this happen? I very appreciate you highlighting the strong and effective because it is the part I have bolded on our website ever since I made the website. Yeah, I, I will like echo what Michelle was saying.

that we are one of the last provinces but i want to also emphasize that that wasn't true when we started this we were you know it was pretty much only ontario and quebec has had a very old law that's i'm not sure how effective um it doesn't come up very much um and then really with the accessibility canada act that got put through in 2019 that really was able to kind of light a fire so that was our national act that applies to you know federal jurisdiction to kind of answer your question on what makes this

different um i the scope of this legislation is huge um and it can be very difficult for people to wrap their minds around um because in in some instances you'll see some laws that say you know we want to be we want to be barrier free or accessible by you know x date but then we have these new technologies like ai so you know when they passed their act in 1991 they probably weren't anticipating you know how do we make

AI accessible or how do we, you know, so it's, it's one of those things where it's like, we have this aspirational goal of making something accessible and we want to be barrier free and we want to do everything we can to limit the barriers or address them as they come up or not put them there in the first place. But as we know in disability, you know, people have competing needs, everyone's unique, we're not a monolith. So yeah, there's, it's very hard to say, well, let's make Alberta barrier free.

Well, to whom and how and where does that apply and what jurisdiction? So yes, it's a very difficult law because it's a massive, massive law on the, but to change that, you know, there is this, again, a version of the eight, like the ADA has been around since the nineties and you were seeing acts go across the province, across the provinces and in our own country. So it is also possible. Yeah. So we have some examples. I always look at that and go, if, if Alberta is holding out,

On the flip side, you go, well, that's kind of a negative thing, right? How come we don't have rules about this and we should focus more on accessibility? But I guess there's, looking at it from a positive perspective, there's also the ability to kind of make a unique kind of made in Alberta solution. Maybe we can learn from what everybody else done and make it better, right? And we can lead the country, you know, in terms of having benefited from.

other thinkers, other movements in other provinces, right? And maybe, yeah, they just... So the absence, I guess, is an opportunity to improve it and do it better, right? Well, and from what you said, Michelle, I think people don't really notice if it's not something that affects your life, right? So the time that you break your foot and you have this big cast on your foot, all of a sudden it's...

you realize that there are things, or if you're in a wheelchair for a period of time, you suddenly realize that things maybe aren't so easy, like the snow or the, like all of those things, but also like you don't think about it so much until it affects you. So I think it is something that the more we let people see what are instances that affect people, I think then they would understand better because I don't think it just comes clear to your mind without.

sort of having experienced it yourself or knowing somebody else in your family that has, right? Well, and maybe just a few minutes. I think it might be helpful if we, as we've just said, doing a podcast, you learn tremendously. You engage in conversations. You have these kind of debates. So that's the beauty of doing this is we're learning ourselves. But maybe it's helpful just to take a step back and say, let's describe the problem. Because maybe...

you know, I don't know, taking the other argument, if I will, you know, what if somebody says, oh, wait a minute, don't we have some accessibility components of different pieces of legislation? Or what's the problem? Like, why would, why do we even need this? Is it, is it not just a FOMO? You know, other provinces have it. How come we don't have it? I'm, I mean, it has to be more than that. It has to be, there's actually a problem. So it might be helpful for the two of you to say, just to re-articulate going,

What's the problem? Maybe in the context of what's a current assessment of accessibility issues in Alberta? I would say that one of the most clear for barrier-free Alberta is that there's 30 pieces of legislation related to disability policy. So the Alberta Assured Income for Severely Handicapped.

persons with developmental disabilities. So each of those legislations deals with a piece of the population or part of the population versus looking at it comprehensively. So if you don't fall into one of those pieces of legislation, you fall through the cracks. And that's really obvious with groups like fetal alcohol syndrome. They don't have a specific legislation that focuses on that particular type of disability. So it's been very piecemeal, patchwork.

This would bring all of that together and take an overarching look so that no one's excluded. Yeah. And I think I would add, when you look at accessibility, you're looking at, you know, you're taking more of the social model of disability in which, you know, it's not the person with the disability that has some kind of hang up. It's that society isn't meeting that person's needs. So taking accessibility.

And I heard you say, you know, maybe it doesn't affect everyone, but one of the things that you really see, I don't know if it specifically came out of the Americans with Disabilities Act, but the curb cut effect is something we hear. You know, I'm a cyclist and I prefer using curb cuts versus jumping over a curb, for example. So although I don't have a disability, I use this thing that was put in for people with disabilities. Voice to text, texting in general, all of these things came out of, you know,

creating accommodations for people that ended up becoming mainstream. Captioning on videos is a really popular one these days. So accessibility looks at how do we make our society work for everybody and not, you know, look at how are we going to specifically help, you know, like Michelle said, this type of disability or what have you. Right. So yeah, to sum up, I guess if we had disability legislation in Alberta, there would be an element of uniformity.

That's going to apply. And effectively, that's going to allow people with disabilities better opportunities to interact in society, to do the things we take an able-bodied person would take for granted.

Okay, so I think one of the real benefits of having accessibility is things that seem obvious but aren't maybe obvious. You look and a building has the push button. So you think, oh, someone can get in there. But oftentimes if the elevators don't work or if there's some kind of access issue, people are having to go to the back, to the loading dock and go up, you know, in ways that are not dignified. They don't have dignity. And this is a lot about dignity.

I think that that would really make a difference. And like Sam said, things like closed captioning, to do a disability consultation and not have the accessibility features like ASL interpreters there to talk to a large population of people with disabilities, they're not getting the full picture. So that's just very critical. One of the things that was said before is lots of times people have to advocate for themselves once they've...

had a barrier sort of put in place and then they're trying to figure it out you're looking to have something that takes the barrier away so that they aren't having to do that that it's more that there isn't a barrier and so therefore they are going to have a much easier time because lots of times it must be very difficult for people when they reach the barrier and then it feels like nobody's listening or oh well it happened to you but it's it's can't be that big of a deal

Right. And and that's probably what people feel like a lot if they're then needing to try to advocate on their own behalf, not seeing changes made. It's a chance to hopefully remove a large amount of barriers for a large amount of people. Some very common barriers that we notice and have noticed through history. And like you said, there will still be barriers. I have barriers in my own life, too.

figuring out how to talk to the bank manager you know like there's always going to be barriers um but trying to find the ones that we know are barriers and we've we've seen this as we've seen accessibility improve over the years you know push buttons were not always in the building code elevators aren't always in the building code these are things that we've advocated for small little things in the built environment for example i think even asl at the legislature is a fairly new addition i don't know that that was they they were always um doing an interpretation of legislative

you know, sessions, that's the word. But yeah, so instead of these incremental, we're fighting tooth and nail to get kind of one thing, it would be an act and, you know, a team that is looking at these and implementing them and phasing them in and doing enforcement and those kinds of things. Well, and it sounds like some of the things that you had talked about, like, you know, some of the things that were put in place to help somebody with a disability actually has very much helped a lot of people.

to do things in a simpler way. If you talk to text, those sorts of things, right, that now not just somebody with a disability uses, there may be a whole number of things that actually put in place may help a far greater extent of people, even people beyond somebody with a disability. So, Michelle, what have you...

What has come up so far? If you look back over the last couple of years, because it sounds like that's kind of the timeframe that you've been at this, what sort of efforts have you been making to try to raise...

awareness with regard to this issue? Well, we've done quite a bit. We have created, we have our website, which has information so people that don't understand can go there and take a look at it. We've had communication with the government of Alberta, specifically with Minister Nixon, who would be responsible for accessibility legislation. We have created different communication materials and different campaigns. We've

We've wanted to raise the awareness because like we said earlier, so many people don't understand what this is about. And I was at a town hall recently and people were like, well, is this going to help me get a job? Is this going to help me? Very specific situations. So thinking of it sort of high level, it's not a very sexy kind of topic. So trying to bring it down so that people understand the components of it. So understanding that it's going to relate to provincial.

entities. It's not going to be imposed on small businesses, for example. So just trying to do that education piece. We've worked with, we reached out to the Alberta Chambers of Commerce and last year we worked with them with Calgary and Airdrie Chamber and we put together

policy paper, which was accepted at their annual general meeting. And now it's a policy priority for the Alberta Chambers of Commerce. So they see the value in small businesses. When we have businesses that don't have enough people, then this is an untapped potential. So they see the value in it. We've also had a campaign through our new mode platform, which was for people to sign on and write to their MLA and let them know how important this is.

So we've made that available to people. We've held some rallies. So we've held them in both Calgary and Edmonton. Last year, we held one at the Alberta legislature. And then following that, we had about, I think there was about 60 plus people that went into the question period. And it was quite interesting because they were being flooded, securities being flooded with all these people with disabilities and all of the different things that they have attached to their wheelchairs and the bags. And it was quite overwhelming for them, but it was very...

instructed to show them that these are some things that haven't been addressed. So like Sam said, like with some of the features that are in the Alberta legislature, so an iPad so people can follow along, well, they weren't charged. So, you know, part of the accessibility legislation isn't just implementing it, it's maintaining it. You can put, what is that called, for the door, you know, to push the door open for some reason. Yeah, well, just...

A button so that it opens for somebody in a wheelchair. If it's broken, you don't have accessibility. You're still stuck outside of the building. So it's that maintenance part of it. So we've done some education. We've held some town halls. We've had the rallies. And we've got a new campaign that will tell you a little bit about accessibility more than you think. Excellent. We'll look forward to that.

Before we get there, maybe another topic, and maybe, Sam, I'll get you to kick this off. In your advocacy, what are some common myths? Like what do you see that you're kind of running across regularly with regard to, yeah, common myths about accessibility? And maybe that's a good way to look at the topic from breaking down some opinions

maybe are not grounded in fact. Yeah, I think this really jumps off of the chambers of commerce conversation we just had. My job kind of before really getting into barrier-free was working with small businesses and big businesses to improve their accessibility. And a lot of times what I heard was that they would love, no one's trying to put barriers in place. They would love to have an idea of what is not accessible because people with disabilities are an untapped

both labor market and you know spending market um but they don't have any prescription that helps them or they you know they have this myth you know that they are they can rely on the building code or what have you but as we said like building is only part of it um there's a million other things that are going to accessibility so yeah some of the main ones are you know physical accessibility is all we're talking about barrier-free um design of

brick and mortar buildings. That is a significant part, and it's the part people really can understand, which is why you'll hear us use it as some of our examples, because it's so tangible. But accessibility, as we mentioned, is like, it helps communication barriers, it helps, you know.

you know, with plain language, we see an overlap of people with intellectual disabilities and their accommodations overlapping with people whose maybe first language isn't English. So, you know, looking at how accessibility is a holistic design. The other thing is that it's an expensive thing. It can be. If you have to retrofit an elevator, that can be expensive, but charging an iPad is not necessarily something that's expensive, right? So it doesn't have to be.

if the building is accessible, the job is done. I think Michelle kind of talked about that. That, you know, all disabilities are visible. Again, I think I talked a little bit about that. It's not just people with mobility challenges. And I guess on that point, just to touch on that, because I think it's interesting that the first thought would be, this is about having an accessible washroom in a building. Like, so we think of the physical plant, right?

And we think about, oh, this is for people in wheelchairs, right? I mean, that's sort of where your brain goes to begin with. We have, you know, or like accessible. I guess most people know there's parking for those that have mobility challenges at most parking. I mean, that's mandated, right? Every parking, you go to the Home Depot, there's going to be spots there you can't park unless you have a sticker, right?

Even the symbol itself is showing somebody in a wheelchair, right? So it seems to me that it becomes that as the assumption. But I'm listening to you going, it's a heck of a lot more than that. Michelle, do you want to touch on that? Like in terms of that kind of stereotype, it's, you know.

I guess to summarize my comment, and you can respond to it, would be it's more than the building, which is the comment you're making, Sam, and it's more than people in wheelchairs. Absolutely. One of our partners on Barrier Free Alberta is Deaf and Hear Alberta.

And so they were talking about during COVID when they were doing all the emergency and there was no ASL. So there was this entire population that was not getting the message. They were not hearing all of those updates that the rest of us were hearing. So I think oftentimes people don't think of that.

policies, hiring policies. People just don't know. I think Sam said it well. They're not trying to put barriers in place. They just don't know how to remove them. So a simple removal of a barrier would be when you're looking to hire someone rather than have it if the person does not.

If the job does not require them to drive, don't ask them about whether they can drive because that excludes a whole population who may be low vision, blind. They can do the job with maybe some minor accommodations, but you disqualify them right off the top when you put that expectation that they drive. So that's excluding that whole low vision blind community. Like I said, with the COVID, there's just so many examples. Snow removal, we live in Alberta.

We're going to have winter. We may have a gentle winter like we saw here in Calgary for most of January, and February hit us hard. How is it that we keep having this snow removal discussion? Snow removal should be a critical part for people to get around, particularly if they need to go to medical appointments or they need to go to employment. This should be part and parcel of what people with disabilities and other people can expect, that there's a clearing of...

of the pathways. So those are some examples. Sammy, want to add on to that? Yeah, like, I was just going to say, even going back to the parking, you know, we see people, you'll see TikToks or something where people are like, this person isn't in a wheelchair, they don't need this spot. And that's, again, going to the assumption that someone...

who needs accessibility is in a wheelchair it's a lot of it the only criteria to get your placard is that you can't walk more than 50 meters comfortably so you could have a million reasons why um you know cancer patients often low energy somebody who's like going through treatment they can't you know walk the 50 meters maybe their gait's fine but their energy is low and so there's all these like and it's why i don't necessarily accessibility

think accessibility legislation is just for people with disabilities. I think it's really for everyone because we all go through some element of this at some point. You know, one of the things that I usually say is that I'm currently not disabled. That does not mean that I won't be at some point and have been in the past, you know. So it's one of those things where it really does apply to everyone. And even going back to that original conversation of like.

And even if it's not applying to me for that reason, it might be a benefit to me anyway. I think the other thing I just wanted to go back to for myths as well is that accessibility is optional. And that's one that I think a lot of people think specifically as from my human rights background, I can say it's not. You have a duty to accommodate if you, I mean, other than in your home necessarily, but like if you are providing a good or a service or if you are an employer.

and somebody has a disability, you have to accommodate them. So it's not an option already in law. But, you know, there's sneaky ways to, of course, get around that. And we always hear about discrimination and hiring and those kinds of things. But anyway, I digress. No, thanks for that. Maybe that's a good place also to talk a little bit about kind of your new campaign. And you talked about that earlier, right? Just touching on that.

I think we've covered the problem you've observed and identified. You've rallied the support. We've got this barrier-free Alberta movement where you're advocating for, I guess, increased awareness on accessibility and the need for that. But you're also getting into, I guess, a new campaign, or at least I understand it. And I want to learn more. So maybe I'll point to you.

Michelle and Sam, you can add to that, is how are you trying to affect the public conversation with regard to this new campaign you're launching? Sure.

Part of the common myths and misconceptions led us to the campaign. When people come back and say it's too expensive, we're like, well, wait a second. Like there are some other, you're not considering the whole package of it or lowering your standards or here's a building code. And we're like, oh, this is not addressing all of those pieces. So we sat down and we should mention too, like Barrier Free Alberta is mainly comprised of people who have disabilities.

So they're coming with their lived experience. So we have representation from, we have from CNIB, from Deaf and Hear Alberta, from spinal cord injury, cerebral palsy. So there's a whole range, neurodiversity. So we've got all these different people bringing their experiences and we're like, wow, this is, there's.

Everything is about ramps and elevators. Yes, we've got the parking, you know, we've got the parking place, we've got the elevator, and we're like, wait a second, there's so much more. So some of the things people don't consider is justice system. So we hear when people are being, for example, if they're having an interaction with a police officer who doesn't know about the disability, that can turn really ugly. So that's a component of it.

We talked about transportation, employment, communication pieces. So we said, all right, it's about so much more than what you think it is. So let's really break that down. So we started in November and we took this campaign with these 10 pillars. And we spend one month focusing on that pillar on our social media platform. So Barrier Free Alberta has LinkedIn accounts.

Facebook and Instagram. So we're putting that on there. We're inviting people to share their barriers, share their stories. Like, what is it? We're only speaking of some of them. The barriers are, there's literally hundreds of them or more. So we're inviting people to participate. We're sharing some key facts and key messages.

sharing hopeful stories as well. So people can follow along and they can participate and hopefully learn. We just really want to get it out that it is so much more than what people believe it to be. Can I sort of go through what those 10 pillars are? So I'm looking employment, transportation, housing, procurement, justice, programs and services, education, health, communications, and built environment. Because I think as we're talking, like it is a pretty, like,

accessibility is somewhat abstract, right? And so the more that I think we can piece it down to something that's more relatable than some very big picture, I think it's going to help people understand it better. And so I think this is great because it makes you look at it in a different way, right? And it takes this big vision.

And it helps to sort of put it in a little like smaller boxes so you can kind of get your head around it better. So I think this is great. Sam, do you have any thoughts or comments on that in terms of some of the stuff Michelle was talking about? Yeah, I think not only so barrier-free Alberta, as Annie said at the top, our 100% goal is to get legislation passed. That is ultimately the goal.

in order to get that legislation passed we have heard from decision makers and the public and business owners and all of these other groups um on what the what they see the barriers to being to getting this legislation passed so some of that has been um you know in talking

decision makers and they say well we have the building code or um we've signed this memorandum of agreement with accessible standards canada which you know that's a step it's certainly a step um but we haven't seen much come out of that step for example um or talking to business owners like i said they're not trying to be discriminatory they're not trying to put in barriers but they're trying to change them so some of this campaign has come out of

Let's address these questions. Let's address these conversations that we've had and really, like Annie said, get people to see. I could give you an example of all of these different pillars on a different disability that isn't somebody in a wheelchair and how this interaction, how this pillar might affect them or what kind of barriers are common and exist. So that's where this campaign is to really kind of...

Delve deep into it, look at these different areas and yeah, help you give an example that you might see yourself in or your family member. Or from a hopeful perspective, if you're ever in that situation, you would want this to be the environment. You would want these things to be in place, right? So it's not only self-interest going, well, I don't care about it because I don't have a disability. But you know, what's the kind of society we want to live in? What's the issue of accessibility? It's like, well, that's the standard.

That we would want for that. So how's the campaign going? What's the reaction you're getting to it? How would you assess it so far? People are having a positive reaction. I think people are surprised, just like as we're talking here, sort of how the 10 pillars to it. Wow, like I didn't realize that. So we're only in our third month. So it's still going. This campaign will go into the fall.

Right now, before I left the office, we had a submission from Autism Edmonton, and they're talking about housing for people with autism, which is a very, people wouldn't think that someone that's autistic needs a different kind of housing situation. So if you follow along there, you can see some of the key messages from that organization. So we're trying to get our partner organizations as well as people with lived experience to share that. So tell me a little bit.

If people are, their interest is now piqued, tell us a little bit about how they can join in the movement to sort of help some of these things happen. What are things that you would encourage people to do? Well, I'd say the first step is to go to barrierfree.ca, which is our website. On our homepage, so it gives you a little bit of explanation of everything. On our homepage, you scroll to the bottom and you can become a supporter. So you sign up. You can choose whether or not you want your name and organization.

post it. And then we send updates to our supporters. We also have that campaign I was telling you about, the letter campaign. So you can go and you can participate on that. You literally click the link, put in your information, and it will populate for you and send it to the people it needs to go to. You can follow along on our platforms. So Barrier Free Alberta on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Anything else, Sam? Any other places? Yeah, I think signing up as a supporter, following the social media, those are definitely the best. You know, getting involved, like we have contact information, feel free if you have an idea or a thought that you, you know, think might help towards this end. We appreciate hearing from everyone.

But yeah, I think that's probably the easiest and best way. And we want to hear your stories. So if you see a pillar or you come across our social media and you have something that you think is valuable, we want to share those. So please send them to us. The other thing that just as we're wrapping up here, if we're talking about relevancy and appropriateness of this dialogue and that we engage in a conversation of accessibility, it strikes me that as we're...

You know, at the time of this recording, we're a few months away from the introduction of the Alberta Disability Assistance Program or ADAPT program, right? The change on Asian. Followers of our podcast will know that we've focused a lot on that to date, right? This is a little bit of a different topic, but still affecting the disability community. It strikes me that if the government's push is to say, you should go out and work, it strikes me that, and I'm hoping, maybe you have some commentary on this, that...

I hope they're thinking carefully about accessibility issues in terms of supporting people because they've said they're going to provide these wraparound supports. I don't know, just intuitively be that aligns very nicely with saying we should have legislation that is consistent with that. But it seems to me that this is a really good time to get educated and to stay involved.

And as a disability community, we're dealing with this new program that is pushing, saying to people, we're going to cut your benefits and you have to go out and work to make it up. And for some people, that's going to have additional problems, additional barriers based on their disability. And there's going to be a wide experience of different types of barriers on that. But it's very, I don't know, maybe comment, but I mean,

It just struck me that as I'm listening to you that this is very relevant. This isn't an abstract thing. This is something we're all going to have to deal with, and we're dealing with it in the context in 2026 of a fundamental shift in the policy of the government relating to supporting people who have disabilities. Absolutely. When ADAP was announced, it was sort of like, well...

the cart before the horse, without that protection and the identifying. Identifying is so key. So the prevention and the removal, but you have to identify those barriers. And if the government hasn't taken the time to really identify what are the barriers that people across the province, whether it's urban or rural, that's a concern. Sam, I think...

You have some thoughts here. I can see you smiling. Our audience doesn't see the video feed that we're having, but I think you have some thoughts on the question I posed. Yeah, my blood is boiling listening to this question because I've seen, you know, the incentives that they, the supports that they put in, in sort of tandem with ADAP and they're all supports we've seen before, you know, really putting it on, you know, we'll help with resume building and job training and these types of things. And we've seen these for decades.

And they, I'm sure they work for some people and that's fantastic. But if they worked for the 70,000 people that were on AISH, then I think it's 90,000 now, actually, then, you know, it would be working, but it doesn't work that way. You know, let alone the portion of people that.

genuinely can't work. There is obviously a portion of that. But one of the stats you'll find if you go to Barrier Free Alberta, barrierfreeab.ca, is 645,000-ish people with disabilities in Canada, not Alberta, but in Canada, don't work but could in an inclusive environment. So these are people, like, people are already looking for work. People are trying to be employed. They would love to have a job, you know?

they would love to have that social security and that financial security. But if people aren't, if business owners aren't incentivized to hire them, if, you know, people don't understand how, what an accommodation is or how to do it, or they're scared and they're like, I don't know if I hire you, what does that mean?

All of these other things that legislation would, you know, ideally and hopefully address that would really, you know, actually materially help people work. Not to mention, I could get into the fact that ADAP doesn't have to exist. They just had to remove the income limit. Oh, don't even get us to go there. I know, there's a whole other conversation. Okay, so just to sort of finish up, I really...

want you to sort of give me the vision of, because you've dreamed about this, you know, what is a bear-free Alberta look like to you? And if we get this right, what could be possible? Michelle, why don't we start with you and then we'll give you the last word, Sam. That's an excellent question. Just to backtrack a little bit, I grew up with a father that had MS. And in 1979, he was forced off of work because of his MS.

Now, he went on to be a volunteer for the next 35 years. So he was so capable, but the structures in our society made it so he couldn't participate in a meaningful way where he was paid for his contributions. So witnessing that was very profound to me. And so if we could see a world where we can move freely and that the structures or the systems that

prevent us from being fully ourselves are removed? Imagine what could happen. Imagine it for people with disabilities. Imagine it for businesses. Imagine it for the GDP, the way government sort of thinks. But imagine if people could actually participate in the ways that matter to them. And it doesn't even have to be in a capitalist market. It could be volunteering. It could be socializing. I just feel the inclusion part would be.

would have such significant impact. Maybe that's less mental health issues. Maybe it's just financial freedom. It's just, there's so much potential there. If we get this right, I think that we're heading in a direction that would be very positive for future generations. Well said. Sam? Yeah, I mean, I could go into all the technical details of different laws and which ones I like and those kinds of things. I won't do that. But, you know, we've seen it.

I can say we've seen it done well and we've seen it done less well and we've never seen it done perfectly. And that will always be the case because we are human and to be human is to be imperfect. But I think what it really could get at and what accessibility legislation really has the opportunity to get at is that piece about educating the world as we exist.

when I was supporting people who moved from Ontario, they were like, what do you mean you don't have this? We've had this in Ontario since early aughts. And it's like, yep, we just, we don't, there's nothing that requires this. One of my favorite pillars, and it's the most boring pillar and no one ever wants to talk about it, is procurement. Because what that means is if the government's giving out money for something, then they should have a requirement that whoever they're...

selecting as a vendor has accessibility baked into their product or into their you know service that they're offering and so that's one that's like very very boring no one wants to know about it but if that's the case then all of a sudden people who are like well I want money from the government have to think about accessibility and have to think about what that means and how their thing interacts with different people they have to talk to people with disabilities and that changes a culture that changes that changes a whole world of understanding of

Like we've said, no one's trying to be discriminatory. They just don't know. And so that's what I see, the act accomplishing eventually. Well, and I think what I talk to clients a lot about is that it doesn't matter who you are. Everybody in this world has something to offer. How do we take away the barriers in order for them to be able to offer their full person in whatever that means, right?

Because everybody's here for a reason and everybody here has something to give back to the world. And so how do we make sure they can do that? Yeah, that's well said. I really like how we've gone a little more macro and maybe aspirational. But I think that's appropriate. And I'm left with this thought of saying, I hope Minister Nixon listens to this podcast episode.

I guess a little tongue-in-cheek comment because I don't think he subscribes, but I hope he does aspirationally because I have learned a ton and I would hope the government would learn from this. And for our listeners, please go to the website and sign up for the newsletter. We'll put all those links in the show notes so people can access that. But I guess it starts with education, right? So thank you because as we said from the outset,

preparing for this episode and listening and participating in the episode, I've learned something. And we've been in this space for a long time, but I've learned a bunch. And so thank you for sharing your passion and your knowledge. And we'll do what we can to try to support that. And hopefully this podcast can be a step in that direction. So for our listeners, if you think somebody needs to listen to this, send them in the episode. Subscribe so you don't miss other episodes of good content like this.

And I'm sure you will, after listening to it, share my thanks to Michelle and Sam for your participation. Thank you for sharing your passion. And I guess just encourage you in the advocacy, right? I know that can be, it feels sometimes that no one's listening or that, you know, progress is measured in inches, not miles.

I'm convicted that this is important work. You know, it's important. So we give you the greatest of encouragements to continue in that, to maintain your resolve, because I think we're all going to benefit from that. And hopefully with legislation, Alberta will benefit from that as well. So with that, why don't we wrap it up? Thanks for listening. Please share.

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