014. Measuring the Impact of ADAP – Why Data, Stories, and Research Matter

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the We Advocate Podcast, Gordon and Annie are joined by returning guest Dr. Gillian Petit, along with Phil Ney from Inclusion Alberta, for an important conversation about research, lived experience, and the future of disability supports in Alberta.

As Alberta prepares for the rollout of the Alberta Disability Assistance Program (ADAP), this episode explores a critical question:

Are these policy changes actually improving people’s lives?

Why this matters:

There is currently no formal government evaluation of ADAP’s real-world impact.

This study aims to fill that gap by:

•  Collecting real lived experiences
•  Providing evidence-based insights
•  Helping shape better policy decisions

Key Takeaways:

• ADAP represents a major shift in disability support policy in Alberta 
•  There is a real need for independent, long-term evaluation
•  Lived experience + data = powerful advocacy 
•  Participation in research is a practical way to create impact

Memorable lines:

 “Lived experience is powerful, but data makes it undeniable.” 

"Policy decisions should be based on what’s actually happening, not what we assume is happening.” 

 “This research connects individual stories to system-wide impact.” 

Resources & Links:

Participate in the ADAP Research Study:
 https://redcap.com/AISHstudy

Learn more about Inclusion Alberta:
 https://inclusionalberta.org

Transcript

Well, welcome back to the We Advocate podcast. My name is Gordon Vanderleek. I'm the founder and

managing lawyer of Vanderleek Law and joined with my co-host, Annie Vanderleek, who's a disability

advocate with the firm. Welcome, Annie. Yeah, hello, everyone. It's always good to podcast

together. And today we got a two-part series, but it's anchored with a former guest of the

podcast. So this is a special milestone, Annie, that this is... in our young podcast.

We have a repeat guest because Jillian Petit, who's been with us before talking about her studies

of the AGE program and the new ADAP program that we've talked extensively about on the podcast,

is coming back and speaking to us on today's topic about a study she is doing.

So for those that remember the prior podcast that we did,

there was a reference and a small reference to a future. study. So with that,

Jillian, welcome back to the podcast. We look forward to this next conversation. Thank you for

having me, Gordon and Annie. It's great to be here. Yeah, so maybe for the benefit of those that

didn't hear the last episode, maybe just give a little bit of your background. And then we know the

topic is this new study that you're doing. So we want to dive into that and learn more,

but maybe just give us a little bit of your background. and how you became interested in this

subject, and then we'll get into the details of the study. Yeah, so hello, I'm Dr. Jillian Petit.

I'm a senior research associate in the Department of Economics at the University of Calgary. For

the past eight years, I've been working on research that looks at the design and implementation of

income and social supports, both here in Alberta and all across Canada. So I've done work on AGE,

done work in BC on basic income. I've done work on the Canada Groceries and Essentials Benefit that

came out just a month here ago. So yeah, it's been a wild ride. And now we're going to be talking

about, again, a new program, a new income support program here, ADAP. Yeah. So at the time of this

recording, we still have a few months to go before the rollout of the new program. And we're

eagerly anticipating the details of that program that are going to come out in regulation. So as a

forewarning, we're definitely going to have to have you back once you've done your number crunching

as an economist on these new programs.

reality or the economic experience of those with disabilities in Alberta and how juxtapositioning

that as against, well, what are the supports the government is providing? So we're getting, we sort

of have a rough idea of those, but the details will follow. But I think this is very interesting

and commendable to say you're doing that study and you're looking at the numbers, right? Because

that, I think advocates in the area, I think part of the criticism is maybe they're designing a

program that doesn't meet the reality. the economic reality of those that are on those support

systems due to their long-term disability. So maybe by prefacing the importance of the work,

let me turn it over to you to just, yeah, talk a little bit about the outline, like where are you

at in the process, kind of what is his purpose, and, you know, let's start diving into that.

So the floor is yours to give us an explanation of the study you're engaging in. All right, well,

thank you. So I'm going to just start by reminding listeners of kind of what's going on in the

sphere. So in February of 2025, the Alberta UCP government announced that they were going to

implement this new program. The full name is the Alberta Disability Assistance Program, but a lot

of us know it by ADAP. And I know you've talked about this on your podcast a lot, Gordon, but let

me just remind people that as of July 1st, 2026, so that's this July, everyone currently on H will

be moved over to ADAP. and ADAP is going to be a program, an income assistance program for persons

with disabilities who are able to work. AESH is going to continue to exist alongside ADAP, but it's

going to be a income assistance program for persons who are permanently unable to work. So because

everyone's being moved over to ADAP to move back onto AESH, people are going to have to provide the

required medical documentation to show that they're permanently unable to work to move back onto

AESH, okay? Now, as far as I know, there is currently no evaluation in the works to understand how

ADAP impacts people and whether it's achieving its objective. So the Alberta government has

designed ADAP to increase employment and employment supports to persons with disabilities.

So along with the ADAP program, the Alberta government has increased employment supports. But we

also know from your previous podcast and some past, some analysis that I had done that for persons

who are moved on to ADAP, their maximum benefits are actually going to be lowered compared to age.

So under age, people can get a maximum of $1,910 currently. under ADAP.

Now, we don't know this for certain yet, but the Alberta government has proposed that the new

maximum benefit will be $1,740. So that's less than what age recipients are currently getting.

But the Alberta government has argued that because of these enhanced employment supports and

incentives to work, that persons who are moved on to ADEP are going to be better off because of

employment so we're testing them we're testing this hypothesis so our research aims to answer a

simple but important question so what is the current economic well-being of persons currently on

age and how will persons these persons economic well-being be impacted by ADAP so along with

looking at income we're looking at economic well-being as a whole so this includes food insecurity

core housing needs access to prescription drugs medical assistance so not just income but

everything your economic well-being and this is important because income doesn't always tell us

how well off someone is necessarily. If their needs are high, that means that their costs are high,

right? So we're looking at economic well-being as a whole. So our research is going to evaluate in

real time how changes in age to ADAP impact both economic well-being and the employment of persons

with disabilities in Alberta. So to answer this question, we're conducting an online survey of

persons with disabilities living in Alberta. So for people who want to participate, eligible

participants include persons living in Alberta who are between the ages of 18 and 64 and who are

either a person with a disability or who are currently receiving AISH or both. All right. So

ultimately, the purpose of all of this research is to provide evidence that can help policymakers

design income support programs like AISH and ADAPT that genuinely improve people's lives.

By focusing on outcomes that matter, like whether people can meet their basic needs, we're hoping

to contribute to more effective and evidence-based social policy in Alberta. And I think that's

really important, right? Because that, as you say, just the last line there, that it'd be evidence

-based. Because if you're designing the programs, it might, I mean, one factor could be we have

this much money to spend. So here's what the benefit is, right? But presumably there's some

analysis to say, is that actually meeting the needs? And what does that look like for the people

who are on AISH? So I think the program has started. When did you start collecting data?

How long have you been doing this? Right. So we launched our survey back at the end of January

here, and we are still looking for participants to take part. So like I said, it's an online

survey. I'll give you a link to put on. podcast site here but uh can click on the link and it'll

take them to to a google form that'll ask questions about their eligibility and tell them a little

bit more about the research itself the way that this this uh research is working is that once

you've agreed to be a participant we send you your first survey almost immediately. And then we'll

send you a follow-up survey about every six months till the end of 2028, because we really want to

track how ADAP affects people over time. Can I ask a question on for the people who are part of the

survey, there would be quite a few people on AISH that actually have guardians and trustees in

place. So can a guardian then participate in the survey on behalf of the individual who has the

supports? Yeah, absolutely. So caregivers, family members, support person, trusted friends,

a person, these persons are welcome to help someone take part in the survey. And this can include

providing third party, third party consent, because we do require informed consent from our

participants. So third party consent can be provided where where it's appropriate. Caregivers and

support persons can also help by reading questions out loud, helping fill in the answers to the

questions, or just really supporting communication in whatever way works best. And having said all

that, any responses should still

Okay,

but really the benefit here, of course, would, I think... but correct me if I'm wrong, would be the

multi-year aspect. It's not a snapshot of, as we recorded this in 2026, it's looking for some

responses, I think, through to 2028. Is that what I read? That's correct.

That's correct. So speak to a little bit of, that may be obvious, but just from an economist's

perspective, the importance of a multi-year analysis versus a snapshot in time as it relates to

impacting policy and social services. Yeah, so first off, for those age clients that are going to

be moved on to ADAP, we know that there's going to be this transition period. So former age clients

are going to be able to receive their current level of age benefit until January 2028.

At that point, that's when their benefits will be changed to the ADAP benefit levels.

We want to be able to capture all of these effects, okay? So we want to capture these effects going

into 2028 because we think it will affect the change in the benefit levels will affect

participants' economic well-being. We also know from previous evidence and previous studies that

any changes in income supports take time to trickle through. So, for example, when employment

supports increase, we know that any behavior changes, I know economics jargon a little bit,

but any behavior changes that might be made take time to trickle through because people need time

to adjust. They need time. to learn the new systems. Employers need to adapt employment positions

for persons with disabilities, right? There's all these adjustment processes that need to occur. So

we're really hoping to capture all of these effects. Excellent. So maybe talk to me a little bit,

Gillian, about, you know, are there risks or to the individual or benefits to the individual when

doing this study? Maybe help us see, yeah, reasons why people would want to take part. So I will

start with the risks. So one of the most important aspects of this research for me as a researcher

is really protecting the confidentiality and privacy of the participant. So I know that many

individuals who participate in this study rely on income support programs, and there can be real

concerns about how this information might be. So there's several layers of protection that we have

in place to protect participants' confidentiality. So first, this research has been reviewed and

approved by the University of Calgary Research Ethics Board. Okay, so this ensures that standards

for privacy and data collection are met. Second, we don't share responses, participant information,

names, anything with anyone outside of the research team. The only people that see the responses

and who's answering the questions is myself, the principal investigator on this research,

which is Dr. Lindsay Tedz, and another one of our students. This information is not going to the

government. It's not going to administrators of income benefit programs. It goes to nobody else for

no other reason. We also don't collect identifying information. So we're not asking for people's

names or addresses. We don't need that information. The only identifying information we're asking

for are email addresses or telephone numbers because we do need to send the survey to you and have

a way to track you. But any information or results that are put out there in reports,

it's going to be aggregate data. So you'll never be able to tell who answered the survey,

what one person said, anything like that. So ultimately, our goal is really to ensure that

participants can share their experiences honestly and safely. Their voices are really essential to

understanding how income support programs work in practice. And protecting confidentiality ensures

that this research can be done ethically and in a way that genuinely serves the public interest.

On to benefits, which is the second point. Yeah, I'm going to say without them being afraid. Yes.

Being able to say things. I could imagine on that just to jump in that there's –

this general fear that's been created through this discussion of this new program of,

well, if I share information with the government, they're going to use it against me, right?

They're going to like somehow there's just this general aura given the uncertainty. And certainly

we've heard that feedback, right, Annie? I think you're taking lots of phone calls and people are

worried because of the nature of the government intervention or the changes in the support

programs, which we have known for decades and relied upon is being changed.

So I and we've talked about it on prior podcasts, Annie, to say the level of insecurity is up.

And I think that that that that is not unfounded. And it's, I think, a reasonable apprehension

that, well, could this be used against me sort of thing? Right. Is somehow a caseworker going to

find out that I say something about my economic reality and it's used against me? And so I think

that just to reemphasize, maybe to state the obvious, I think that's really critical to have those

safeguards in there. So I guess I wanted to. in just to emphasize the point to provide some comfort

for the listeners if they're thinking, should I do this? Should I not? I want to be helpful, but is

this going to hurt me? Right. Because everybody's just a little on edge at this time. Yeah. And I

totally understand that. Just to reiterate, we are not the government. We will not be sharing these

responses with the government. I will be sharing. reports that we write that aggregate all the

responses that people give us. But in that aggregation, no one person will ever be identified.

So we are independent researchers. This is an independent evaluation. We are doing our best.

We are taking the best measures we know of to protect your data. Great. And so the benefits.

The benefits. Well, what we're really hoping for here is to hear about the lived experience as a

person's on income assistance. We think that this is really important. crucial and we find that

it's been a gap in the information that's out there in creating and putting forward the idea of

ADAP. So we're documenting the lived experiences and economic well-being of people on Asian ADAP.

We will be publishing different outputs, so like reports, infographics, blog posts.

We hope to use this to both inform public understanding as well as to inform the policymakers'

understanding of what people on Asian ADAP are actually experiencing. And I know just to foreshadow

what's coming, I know the guest after me, I think, can talk a little bit more about what these

types of results can be used for. Yeah. Well, I guess the question of funding is like underlying

the program. I just got to imagine you got a bunch of researchers and there's a whole bunch of

costs. I mean, all of this involves some costs, right? Which is there?

Are you getting current funding or what do you see, you know, acknowledging there's time and

effort? the part of participants over multiple years to agree to be part of this.

Maybe speak a little bit to the context of all that. Yeah. So as of right now,

we do not have any dedicated funding. So this means at the current moment, we can't offer

participants any compensation. But we do understand very much that filling out an online survey

does take time. You know, it takes effort. There's a lot of people on people's plates these days.

We are continuing to search out funding and we really do hope to get some funding as soon as

possible. But right now at this time, as I said, since we don't have funding, we cannot guarantee

any type of compensation for our participants. All of this is being done, at least, you know,

on my part and the other researchers at the university's part. It's being done on a voluntary basis

where we're not getting paid by any funders. I think the beauty of this, honestly, is that a lot of

the people that are calling in what can I do? Like, and, and, you know, the people who are in age

that very much feel like nothing, like they, like, what are they supposed to do? And they have no

control of things. And I think this is something that will make them feel at least they can put

their voice or their what's happening to them.

into something that is going to actually make a difference. And so I think this is very exciting

because I oftentimes have felt like I'm not quite sure how to best tell them what to do. And,

you know, you talk a lot about talking to your MLA and all those different things, but this is

something that they can very much tell their personal story on how it's affecting them. So I think

it's wonderful. Thank you, Annie. I agree. And as we move forward in this research, right now, it

is an online survey, which does tend to be more kind of your multiple choice question. as we learn

more through this first survey wave, what we're hoping to expand into is more interviews with

people so we can get more of that contextual information. And again, we would protect people's

confidentiality and anonymize it all, but present this as evidence to policymakers about how these

policy choices are affecting people. I think that just helps to empower people to be able to say

how it's affecting them. I think that's wonderful. Yeah, no, and that's why I wanted to have you

on, right? So hopefully we can bring a bit of a spotlight to our, at least within our listener

audience to be able to say, consider this. I'm looking at this going really a first step would be

filling out the Google form. So we'll definitely include a link in the show notes as to how to get

to that form. But that is, it sounds like, okay, that all you're committing to at that point is

you're not committing till December of 2028. You're committing to saying, I want to get some more

information. So I would imagine at that point, you're going to give them more information. And if

they have questions, they're going to be able to reach out and get those answered. Cause some of

the questions they have may not be fully answered. Like, you know, with this podcast, for example,

but I'm assuming it's kind of a two-step process. So really the only commitment and correct me. if

I'm wrong, but what I hear you saying is really the only commitment is to express an interest to

participate in the survey. That doesn't commit them to participating in the survey, but that'll

allow a dialogue and some more information and you can answer questions. Is that a fair statement?

That is correct. Yeah. So filling out the Google form doesn't commit anyone. And just again, to be

clear, no one has ever committed to this research. It's entirely voluntary. And even if you do

decide to commit, people can decide to withdraw at any time. So once you fill out that Google the

Google form, I will send you more information about the study, what we're doing with your data,

how we're doing stuff with your data, that sort of stuff, what the survey is going to ask you

about. And at that time, if you decide that you would like at least the first wave of the survey,

participants can then provide informed consent, and then I send them the survey. And to your

point... They can change their mind through the process and there's no negative repercussions.

And that's, you know, there may be lots of reasons why they just say, yes, I'm no longer

comfortable.

But so there's, in other words, they're totally in control through the process. That's correct.

Yes, absolutely. Well, I think that's good to emphasize. And yeah, for those that have gone through

it, maybe you're able to provide comments and or feedback also to other listeners.

Maybe we'll collect some of that. And I was saying to Annie, you know, we should go through that

process. And then if there's some of our experience, you know, we can share that with our audience

to say, hey, it's, you know, it's good. And I want to emphasize what Annie said earlier. And then

we'll close this close this out. It can be a way that even if you say this is more of a long term

project, this is not necessarily going to impact what the government does by July of 2026. This is

a longer term project. But I think important for having that data to say, hey, government, this is

what you're doing. Like this is the implication of your policies and maybe to affect. future

policy. We need the data. We need that economic analysis and the independent analysis of that.

So I think that becomes really critical. It's one thing you can do. And if we all do these little

things, maybe certainly on a long-term basis, that's going to be good for the disability

community. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. So again, we'll put the links in the show notes.

Anything else you want to add just to finish off this segment of the podcast, Jillian? Just to

thank you guys again for having me on here and allowing me to pitch my research. I hope we can find

some more participants. The more participants we can get, this is a little economic-y, but the

larger my sample size and the more precise the statistical estimation is. So hopefully that can

provide more precise. measurements for policymakers who like those kind of data number things.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing. I think it will make a really big

difference. Thank you. Thank you. Well, welcome back to the second portion of this podcast episode

where we're talking about the study that Gillian Petit is engaging in. We wanted in the same

episode to also bring in Phil Ney from Inclusion Alberta to talk a little bit about positioning the

importance of this type of research as it relates to advocacy. Now, if you're in the disability

community, I think you have to be kind of living under a rock somewhere, I guess, to put a little

tongue in cheek to say you haven't heard of Inclusion Alberta, because Inclusion, I think, has been

just a leader in the area of advocacy. And Phil, I know you're doing a lot of work in that area.

So first and foremost, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for contributing your time. And maybe just

introduce a little bit about kind of your role within inclusion and some of the work you've been

doing in the context of these changes to the ACE program. Yeah, pleased to be here with both of

you. So my role with Inclusion Alberta is supporting individuals with intellectual disabilities,

their families and their allies to be participating in.

conversations and influencing systems and policy change and so I'm really interested in what's

going on in ADAP because Inclusion Alberta hears from people across the province every week

concerned and confused about how it's going to impact them. Yeah I know it's we talked in the

earlier segment about Kind of insecurity, I think, is one of the comments I responded to Jillian

and sort of share that sentiment. That's certainly our experience as well, that we're hearing a lot

of uncertainty.

Maybe comment a little bit, so thank you for that introduction, but maybe comment a little bit

about the importance of this type of economic research in the context of...

advocacy in general, or like, I guess, advocacy and education, right? I mean, you're educating your

constituency on saying, here are the facts, but also sharing that with government,

right? And I know... You know, I guess I wanted to flesh out that concept of the importance of this

type of research in the context of advocacy. So maybe you can respond to that. Yes.

So we have lots of stories, people with disabilities that are ready to speak up about their

experience of poverty and how they're being impacted by government policies. But it's hard to tie

it all together to understand what's happening. province-wide and how specific policies are

impacting the experience of poverty. Because people who receive AISH are already experiencing

poverty, but there's poverty, and then there's poverty that can deepen.

people can become even more vulnerable in their poverty. And so this research is really significant

because it's going to allow us to connect the dots from people's individual experiences to

government program changes. There's a lot of things happening that interact with poverty,

of course, inflation, the economy, employment. But this is going to be a major one for people who

are now on AISH or for people who are going to need that program in the future. And so I hear from

a lot of people with disabilities who say that they don't feel heard and they're concerned about

these changes. I think this research is going to help the public and the government understand how

policies are contributing to poverty. I think it will.

show that individual experiences are part of larger trends and the connection of those trends with

changes that are currently being implemented. I think it will help people with disabilities to see

too. I think oftentimes they feel alone and they feel like their experience,

nobody understands it. And I think when this research... gets done, I think them understanding that

they are not the only one who's feeling that way and that a whole bunch of people are together

going to say that this is how it's affecting them, I think will make a big difference just

empowering them too. I think it will help them feel more heard because I hear that a lot too,

that people just don't feel heard. Yeah. And so this, you know, stories are always really important

for advocacy. And we really want to encourage people to keep sharing their stories with their

neighbors, their friends, their families, their MLAs, their doctors,

their city counselors. We need everybody to be understanding these issues,

but research. allows people to speak more authoritatively that the hardship that they're

experiencing isn't a result of their individual choices, but it's something systemic.

Well, to emphasize the storytelling, I mean, reflecting on what you're saying, Phil, I could

imagine maybe a cynical, maybe this is a cynical view of the government policymaking machine.

They're going to go, well, certain advocacy groups are always going to complain. They always want

more. It's never enough. And particularly in the context of what I hear coming out of the

government, particularly from Premier Smith herself, is to say we have the best in the whole

country. Which I don't know is true. That's maybe for another topic we have to delve in and say,

how do we rank amongst other provinces? And maybe we're not as generous as we think we are.

But if that's their mindset, it seems to me if we want to move government from that mindset of

saying, well, of course, advocacy groups are always going to complain because it's never enough,

right? And they don't understand our limited budgets and all the rest of it. But when you're faced

with a lived experience, that is hard to debate. That is hard to deny that this is the implication

of your policies. You're affecting people and this is how you're affecting them. And sort of the

sense I get from listening to the government and looking at different social media posts or even

for other people, members of the public are kind of thinking that, well, people have it good.

They're just complaining because it's less. But if we center... the conversation on here's the

lived experience and levels of poverty and the impact that it has.

I think that changes the dynamic of that conversation. I don't know. Give me some reaction to that.

Maybe it's pie in the sky. But I mean, that's the first reaction going. I think that it just

emphasizes more the importance of this work because how do you argue with lived experience versus

preconceptions or prejudice?

It's absolutely true. And this research is going to be about people's experiences.

It'll be about their experiences looking at the bigger picture,

larger numbers, and so it can look at what the impacts are outside of the individual experience,

but it is about people's experience. I think that this research is important.

Because frankly, government hasn't been developing using solid performance measures for their own

programs. So you look at the business plan for the Ministry of Assisted Living and Social Services.

What's their one performance measure for age? It's the median time between when an application is

ready for medical adjudication and when an eligibility decision is made. Do they have any other

internal performance indicators? How are they monitoring the experience,

the poverty, the employment outcomes of people who receive ACE? We don't really know,

but I would say what we've seen with the announcements about this program is they're focused on

one. One measure, which is increasing employment, but in order for government to be able to make

optimal decisions that spend their ministry budget in the most effective way possible,

they need to understand how policy changes are impacting people on AISH and how it's impacting.

their poverty, their health, their housing, their reliance on other services.

So there's a number of areas of research that won't entirely be measured by this one study.

But I think if we can have public... research about the impact of these programs.

It's important for advocacy, it's important for educating the public, but it's also important for

people in government to be able to understand what's actually happening in these programs.

And I'm not convinced that government is going to be tracking that without this kind of external

research doing that. Yeah. Totally agree. I think that's a great way to kind of summarize and

position the important work that Jillian is doing.

So we thank you for coming on as an adjunct to her talk. to position the importance of it,

because I think that helps put that context in, and it sounds like Conclusion will be eagerly

awaiting the results of that research, and that's going to be helpful. So I guess to close up,

also to thank you. for the work that inclusion is doing in general. But in particular,

I know, you know, with your distribution list and you're active on social media and you're trying

to be a voice, you know, I see Trish Bowman, your executive director, showing up and continuing to

advocate on behalf of those with intellectual disabilities and, you know, the issues that are in

the broader disability community. We certainly look forward to that.

just encourage you to continue spreading the word about this study.

I'm not sure if I said it earlier, but I'll say it now, is I got the idea of saying we need to talk

to Jillian because I saw the inclusion email. So this podcast may not have happened otherwise.

So you brought it to our attention and hopefully to lots of other people. And yes, I guess we need

to continue to do that. The podcast is hopefully an effort in that regard. And yeah, just continue

to highlight the importance of it, encourage people to participate on that.

I know I've... learned a bunch. And so thank you for, for giving us that, that context. Yeah.

Thank you very much for joining. That's great. And, and we'll, I think I,

it's funny cause I think I know what the results are going to say, but it's good that we don't.

Right. And, but I think some of the results we're going to see are going to be quite shocking and

that will help to sort of tell the story in itself. Right. Yeah, it'll be really important for

advocacy in future years for organizations supporting people in poverty,

organizations supporting or advocating for people with disabilities. And, you know,

it's much broader than that. We have three municipal governments in the province that have now

called for a pause to this program. We have the Alberta Medical Association.

organizations that are, you know, concerned about how it's going to impact their own services and

systems, but it's also concerned for people with disabilities.

Thank you for that, Phil. That's been great. Thank you for the generosity of your time to

participate. We'll put some links in the show notes about how people can sign up for your

newsletter. I would encourage everybody to do that because when I get it, I go through it carefully

and it's chocked full of... really useful information. And if you want to stay informed, which I

think we want to do for our loved ones, you know, it's a great resource because you guys are doing

top shelf supports. I also know that for those that have family members with intellectual

disabilities, you have a conference coming up in April. Do you want to speak a bit to that? And

maybe people can also, that's an opportunity to go to the conference to learn more if you're in

that situation. Yeah, our conference is coming up in April 17th and 18th.

And we do have sessions about collective action and how we can work together as a collective to

defend and to advance the interests of people with intellectual disabilities and their families.

So yeah, I encourage you to check it out if you can. We'll put the links into that. I know Annie

and I are going to be there to take in. All of the sessions look really good. So,

you know, maybe give some considerations to that. With Phil, thank you for your time and your

contributions. And as we talked about before we hit the record button, we're going to have to have

you back to talk about sort of maybe some of the broader issues. Definitely when you've had a

chance to look at the regulations, even before then. maybe in more detail about some of the

advocacy and getting into some of these details. It's an interesting development about the

municipalities that are coming on board and just the work that inclusion is doing to advance these

issues. Again, it's, you know, we'll have you back for that at a future episode.