Rick Cutler Locks & Loads Colt Ostergaard for a Cosmic Showdown

Saddle up for a wild ride into one of speculative fiction’s coolest frontier mashups: the science fiction western. In this episode, Mookie stirs it up with debut novelist Rick Cutler, author of Colt Ostergaard: A Man with a Gun, to talk about laser six-shooters, frontier justice, worldbuilding grit, and how the cowboy archetype still hits hard when launched into the future.

Rick breaks down why science fiction westerns work so well. The two genres combine the raw freedom and danger of the Old West with the limitless imagination of sci-fi. That means lonely gunslingers, lawless territories, strange technology, alien landscapes, and moral showdowns where survival is never guaranteed. If you love Firefly, The Mandalorian, classic Star Trek, or pulp adventure with brains, this conversation lands squarely in your lane.

The episode also tracks Rick’s impressive rise as a debut novelist. He didn’t stumble into success. He wrote for years, sharpened his craft through trial and error, submitted boldly when opportunity appeared, and turned a short-form concept into a full-length novel that found the right publisher at the right time. His story is a reminder that “overnight success” is usually built on years of quiet persistence.

For writers, Rick delivers practical no-nonsense advice:

• Treat writing like work, not waiting for inspiration
• Write consistently, even when you don’t feel like it
• Stay true to your characters and let them behave honestly
• Know your audience and write with readers in mind
• Ignore discouraging voices that kill momentum
• Find other writers who challenge and support you
• Use rejection, luck, and setbacks as fuel instead of excuses

Rick also shares his old-school writing method: drafting longhand on legal pads, rewriting by hand, then typing later. Slow, deliberate, disciplined. No gimmicks. Just craft. Their convo is a fun, insightful conversation about creativity, persistence, publishing, and why the future still has room for a man with a gun riding into the unknown.

The Guest

Writer Rick Cutler works in both Science Fiction and Fantasy, but is most famous for his Colt Ostergaard stories in the Raconteur Press “Space Cowboys” series. He also has multiple stories in other anthologies such as ‘Glitched Grimm’ and ‘Uncanny Valet’. Rick graduated from Graceland University with a degree in Sociology, followed by a Computer Tech degree from Rockhurst University. He has been an usher and a tour guide; worked on an archeological dig; and sold vacuum cleaners door-to-door before settling down to sell advertising for 20 years in the South and Midwest. He retired, then jumped into a new career for 21 years doing tech support and data management for a major corporation. Colt Ostergaard: A Man with a Gun is his first published full-length novel. He now lives in Kansas with his wife Doris Day. No cats. No dogs. But that could change at any moment.

His Books

His Website

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Hello and welcome to the science fiction and fantasy factory. I'm your host, Mookie Spitz, and I'm thrilled to have Mr. Rick Cutler in the factory today. Welcome aboard, Rick.

unknown 0:15

Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

How are you doing? You are a speculative science fiction writer specializing in science fiction westerns. This is gonna be fun. And you've got your debut novel, Colt Ostergaard, A Man with a Gun. And uh I checked it out, I loved it. It's got illustrations in it, old school, and you're rocking with Recontour Press. Welcome aboard, buddy. Thanks, man. Great to be here. Awesome sauce. Western science fiction. Now, I grew up with Star Trek back in the day, the original series, Star Trek T-O-S. I'm kind of snob, you know, everything that came after Next Generation, Discover, all Starfleet Academy, you know, all that. And I loved it. I loved it. The cheap sets, Kirk and Spock and McCoy. And one of the most memorable episodes is when they reenact the gunfight at the OK Corral. I think the story is something about they're aliens who put them in a simulation to kind of punish them, and they're the Hatfields and McCoys, and you got Kirk and Spock and cowboy hats and six shooters, and it's kind of a matrixy moment where they like realize they're just in a simulation, and then that gets their ass out of a sling. I bring that up because science fiction and westerns boldly go where no man has gone before, and westerns, the wide open plains, that sense of adventure, have been interwoven really from the beginning. And we're even seeing it with the Mandalorian. That's like a Western, the Mandalorian and Baby Yoda, and then you've got Firefly, and you've got all these science fiction spin-offs and all that great content in film, on TV, and in books. And I personally love it, and it seems like you've become a maestro of it. So I just wanted to kind of set it up that way that this is an exciting sub-genre within speculative fiction.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

I'm very lucky to have submitted something that RackenterPress liked and um haven't stopped since.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Very, very cool. How'd you get into it? I mean, I just, you know, uh spewed my love of science fiction westerns and how it got me excited early on. How did how did you you you fall into that? Because your your prose is really perfect for it. It's very natural, a little bit pulpy. You got some great characters, you got a romance in your book, and like I said, you got great illustrations. Tell us a little bit about how this book came to be.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Holy cow, I want to go read this thing. This sounds great.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Yeah, I say I'm pumping it up, and I'm not even getting residuals, folks.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Well, how did I get there? Well, I've always written. I mean, I collected hobbies all through my life. You know, I took photographs, I you know, dropped it, and I um picked up ukulele, then harmonica, and then guitar, and I was a uh a roadie, and I was also part of Hot Shot Scott in the backseat boogie boys, which was a bar band up in Lake Orion, Michigan. Um but writing is the only thing that stuck. And um so I before all this, I uh wrote a very bad, bad novel, and then I wrote a mediocre one, and then I won wrote one that's kind of ah it's okay, it needs some work. Uh I'm I think I can make this one work. But what happened is that um I saw Brendan Hankins, uh, who lives up in Alaska, posted something online about, hey, there's this new publisher that uh has an open call for something called Space Cowboys. I thought, oh open call, that's great. Uh and I thought, I don't have any Westerns. And then I stopped and I thought, oh, wait a minute. A current novel that I just finished, there's a character who doesn't like authority because her grandfather was incarcerated in a work camp and they broke his legs, that's why he lips. I can take that character, well no, not that character. Let's take his brother and go back like 200 years. Oh, okay, that works for me. So I just out of a stray phrase or a character um um touchstone, um, I thought, well, I can run a cowboy movie or a cowboy story. And uh went through, I looked at some of the tropes, I looked at some of the other things involved in cowboys, and I wanted to specifically make it something science fiction, because I have always loved reading science fiction. I started with Space Cat, which is probably before your time. Um Space Cat, Space Cat has kittens, Space Cat visits Venus. Uh I read all the books uh when I was a kid. But that's how I got to the Space Cowboy. And you know, it's funny, I I about fell out of my chair when they sent me a contract and said we'd like it. I said, Oh, okay, super.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Very exciting for you know an indie author, someone with a debut novel, and then you get signed. It's like you know, Van Halen at Grizzari's or something. It's a rainy Tuesday night. Next thing you know, you're after years of struggle, you're signed. So that that's uh thrilling for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

It was very much so. And um I and I was being so bold with uh Racketer Press, I said, Hey, I hear you're gonna do another volume because you had so many good stories. Can I send you another one? And they said, Well, okay, sure. We don't know what we're doing yet, but sure, send it. And they like that one. I will say this the moment I got that second contract, five more stories popped into my head. And I wrote them down as fast as I could on three by five cards, and that was the beginning of all of cult and you know, the continuing stories uh chronologically coming forward for me. Um and uh like the second book or second story that I wrote, um uh Bad Blood on the High Plains. I needed uh a young uh female, so I grabbed a name out of uh out of the air, and then like two stories later, I needed that another female. I thought, well, what if I grew her up some, made her like you know mature now and older, and make them run into each other, and uh it just kind of tumbled on from there. One thing led to another.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

So it sounds like you've you had these bits and pieces, and then you had some shorter works, and and this first book, Colt Ostergaard, Man with a Gun, is aggregating some of your other stuff, massaging it into a longer story. Is that is that right? How how it came to be?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yes, and you know, um there's a professor who's passed on now from um K-State or K U actually, uh James Gunn, not the one from Hollywood, but uh a professor there, and he said sell it twice. And I dug into that a little bit, and what he was saying is that you know, you've got an idea, write a short story and sell it. And once you sell that, maybe make it a novel, maybe make it uh a series of books or a series of stories and put them together in a book, which I took that advice. Um six of my short stories were published and all six of the Space Cowboy anthologies from Racktainer Press. What I did is I took those six, I said, I don't want to give people just a rehash of stuff they've already purchased or read. So what I did is I wrote seven more stories in that arc, connected each story with a scene between each story. Um, and things that you'll see in the very beginning will pan out later and say, Oh, that's where that came from. Oh, that's where that came from. Oh, that's where her scar came from. Okay, I get it now.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

I love it. It's a mixture of uh having that spark, wanting to do it, seeing an opportunity in the space cowboy genre, having a bunch of shorter things that you then realize can make a great debut novel, and then connecting the dots between the stories to make it exciting. And you're really responding flexibly to opportunity. So it's a nice mix between your own creative energy and drive, and creating opportunity for yourself through your flexibility, creativity, and and business sense. So that's a terrific, terrific case study for writers who wanna who want to bust in. How did you first create the relationship with uh Recontour? Because I think that knocking on the door is what's so challenging to a lot of writers.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Uh sometimes you just gotta be bold and say, you know what? Um I hear the stories of people who have 200 rejections before they sell their first novel or first book or story. Uh it's gonna happen. I got super, super lucky. Right time, right place, right story, right people, right publisher. Um and uh I I rode that as hard as I could till it was, you know, they finally finished their final you know anthology of Space Cowboys. Um, follow the money.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Did you did you send them an email from their contact on the Recontour website? Did you meet somebody at a conference? Did they reach out to you after reading one of your short stories? What was that touch point? And again, because I'm coming at it, I I talk to a lot of writers, especially a lot of speculative, and it's exactly like you say, which is uh one extreme to another, which is I I'm ready to jump out a window because I can't get anybody to get attention, my attention. And other folks are like, well, you know, after 20 or 30 tries, I finally bust it in. But it sounds like you're you you started rocking it pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Well, it was cold. I mean, I said a cold um uh submission. Here's my story. I hope you like it. Uh they said they don't want a whole flowery novel in your submission letter, just you know, get it out there and get it to us. I said, okay. Yeah, send it to them. And like I said, I couldn't believe it when they said yes. All right, you're the right guy at the right time with the right idea.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

That's exactly right. That's very, very cool. You know, and what you're saying, I had JF Holmes from Canon publications, and I know Recontour and Canon, they're they're they fist pump. So it's not like a zero-sum game for me to bring them up. They know each other. And he said exactly the same thing you just said. Don't blind me with bullshit, don't tell me you're gonna do what you're gonna do. Send me your plot, send me a couple chapters. I either like it or I don't, and if I like it, let's rock and roll.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah, there's the old joke about the salesman on his honeymoon sat on the bedge of the bed all night and told her how great it was gonna be, but didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Exactly. I love that. I love, hey, baby, you know, I'm I'm all that, and she's kind of like I would say put your money where your mouth is. Author-publisher relationships are like that too. I mean, are you are you hiding behind your genius or are you just shy? You need a little bit of cojones, right? To just go for it. How did you get from your early stories though to cult? Because um I think your prose is is really fun, and it's a nice balance between pulp and substance. Like you got real characters, and I could feel the romance. And then the second part of that question is integrating the illustrations are are awesome in the book, and this is it. This is this is not common. You've got a terrific illustrator, the characters really come to life, and Colt's girlfriend, I have to say, is quite hot.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

You can throw a picture up if you like.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the video, folks, if uh you're on audio, go over to YouTube. How'd you get the illustrator involved? Tell us about your illustrator. Let's give kudos. Oh Cedar. And what was that working relationship like?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Well, um, I'm very, very fortunate. Um, Cedar liked the book. She liked uh the stories, and uh she actually said that uh um she was delighted to get involved and do them. I sent her um every media piece that I have done, um and we can get back to that that later. But uh I sent her all the pictures I had of my ideas and my concepts of what they looked like and things like that, and she took it and ran. Um uh when I first got the um the PDF showing me what it was gonna look like and the layout, I was just howling um because uh for joy. Uh I came upstairs, my office in the basement. I came upstairs, my wife said, What was all that noise? I said, You gotta see these pictures, these are so awesome. And uh I would just like it that she enjoyed it. She's talented, and they just fit right in with all the stories. So I wish there was some magic thing I could say, but it hey, it's all Cedar. She's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

What's her full name? Cedar Sanderson. She she is terrific, and it just fits it fits the motif and style of the book perfectly. It's really, really, really good. And then you have that frontus piece, too, with uh, you know, your name, the name of the book, and then it's it's so it's so western and and so stylish that it is just really cool, and again, relatively rare. You don't get pulpy, uh, space western sagas with this kind of treatment. It's it's really cool, it's beautiful. And the cover is fun too. Did she do the cover?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

She did the cover too. Um, I did have the same reaction when I first saw the picture of it. I was like, wow, this is awesome!

SPEAKER_02 14:30

And um even the title Colt Osttergaard: A Man with a Gun. It's like zero bullshit, and and you're just hitting that target audience. And then what's the sign that it's sci-fi? Because this could just be a pulp western. Well, he's got some laser bazooka. He's all in chat, he's in chaps in a cowboy hat, and he got the saloon in the background, but he's got this, you know, BF BFG from the year 3000. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Yeah, and you know, the more you look at it, if you look in the background, you'll see futuristic buildings. Um, and the left behind them is like it looks like an air car. You just see barely off the ground. It's so subtle. Um, and she's put all those little touches in there, and it's like if you look for them, you'll see them, which is which is fun.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah, so and I think you nail that motif really well between it's it's anachronistic and just kind of weird, this old school Western, almost uh 19th century California kind of feel, right? We're literally the wild, wild west, and it fits the theme of he's the renegade, and then uh and then you got the weird sci-fi shit, especially at the end when the plot comes together and you realize you know the forces at play, and then you go into into full heavy sci-fi stuff a little bit, and when you're reading it, your head doesn't explode, it it makes sense. You you you found that balance. How did you how did you balance these two when you're putting the story together and writing it? Because for most folks, it it would not make any freaking sense, but it totally does the way you put it together.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Well, thank you. Uh, first of all, you have to know the world that you're in. Um, and I was very fortunate that as I wrote the first several stories, the world built itself. Um, but if I've got an idea for a plot, I also stop and I say, This is science fiction too. What elements on this can we pull in to make this a science fictional universe? You know, the uh the background on this uh world is that it's a colony that got cut off for like 900 years. They survived in the late 1900s. An architect said form follows function when he was building bridges. And later in the uh the uh the 20th century, uh Davis and Moore, sociologist, took that idea of form following function and said, that's how society is built. If you have an institution, the form will follow the function of what it would its purpose. So I, you know, I took Mark Twain and I said, uh, well he said that history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. So I thought, okay, I've got a world that's just coming out of uh out of a war, number one. Number two, recovering is technology. So I've got the freedom to have something as fancy as a a cell phone as being new technology, but I can go ahead and have rail guns and I can have uh nanites and um you know creatures that are unnatural to us. Um so go back to my original point. The form is a cowboy because the form is following the function. It's an old West. It's a it's an open, you know, um an open seat with no lawyers, no politicians, sometimes no justice. And so you take that Wild West flavor and look for the science fiction, saying, What can I add to make it a science fiction western? You know, does my villain have to have something special? Well, sure, why not? Um, you've got powered armor, okay. Sounds great. I've got exoskeletons, oh that'll work. It's a heavy gravity planet. Uh it just the world builds upon itself and stopping to think about here's what I know about the world. What makes it special? What can be different about this particular world that people may not have expected out of a Western? And I I try and follow it from there. Like I said, sometimes you just get lucky, and I think I'm very lucky.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

I think it did great balancing that out, blending the two so it's greater than the sum of their parts. It's not just the pulp western, and it's not just some science fiction rogue story, but the two come together really holistically well. But I think what really nails it is the character. So you've got you've got this world, and then as I was hinting before, this science fiction theme of the cowboy on the western plain where no one has gone before resonates. And Colt is cool, and his cast of characters are cool, and even though Colts kind of bouncing around like a cowboy does, he's got a fairly clear set of goals. Then he gets punched in the face occasionally and there's obstacles, and then he goes from A to B to C to D in a way that's very clear and that builds the drama up. So, how did you get the character of Colt? Is there a little bit of Rick in Colt?

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Oh wish.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

How do you go about building a character that drives that drama within a world as you describe that is cool?

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Well, there's a cheat that new writers can use until they really get to the point where they can create fully fleshed characters, and that's find a person or an actor or a character and look for if it was um um I'm trying to think of somebody who I didn't use. If it's if it's John Wayne, what would he say in this situation? You know, and that makes the character ring true because it's something that he said. Um now it's not quoting him, but what I'm saying is if this character was here in this situation, uh what would the reaction be? And you stop and you think about uh just don't write something and go on. Stop and think about what would the character actually say or do in this situation. Um and uh I wish I could say, oh, I'm you know, I've have this great, you know, characterization module and I can do that. I'm just a guy who writes. Um and like I said, uh I choose to look at stereotypes, I choose to look at characters, and once I have the character down and I know their beats, it's very, very easy to say, well, Shelby would say this right here, or Shelby would do that, or Shelby would slap them. Okay, yeah, I like that. Okay, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

So it sounds to me like what you're what you're hinting at is consistency. So you got a character, and the character is a personality. You use your damn imagination, and you've constructed this personality. You throw that personality into the world you've created, which is also cool, and then they need to do shit. And what they do is interacting with the world, and you, as a writer, don't get in the character's way, let the character do what the character. Character needs to do to accomplish their goals in that world.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah, that's very true. I have not experienced where the characters have actually taken over a story, but they've contributed. I said, Yeah, that's what that's what they would do, but you know, you're not in charge. I'm still holding the pencil.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah, yeah. And I I think that that that could be good, a little bit of distance. Um, I did my debut novel, science fiction novel this year, and I got the feeling that my lead character just took over.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

He owns big big big chunks.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

So, for better or for worse, that happened to me. And I was thrilled just being a tool of my characters because eventually they just started writing the book. Uh, but having a little bit of distance is probably good, especially if you're mindful of the audience, right? You're you're shooting for a particular target audience, Recontour specializes in a particular target audience. And I think you got lucky, but it's not just your luck, but it's your business sense about tapping into and aligning with what their needs are. And they they know their audience, and they know a genre that's taking off right now, which is Space Cowboys. And when they put out an APB saying, hey, we need content, space cowboy stuff, they had a vision of who they're selling to. There's also precedent within the genre for being successful, and then you're like, da-da, I'm Rick, here's my Space Cowboy story, and they're like, Oh, this is pretty fucking good. Uh, and it fit what they needed. So I think part of this is putting yourself not only into the shoes of your characters, but putting yourself in the shoes of your reader.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yeah, and that's true. That's all true. Um and uh I'm like I said, I'm just flattered and pleased that people actually like the stuff that I'm I'm putting out there. So I keep on doing my problem is that I'm working on a novel, um, a second novel in a particular universe, and cult keeps on intruding. It's like, what if he did this? So I've got this scratch pad that I'm writing all these ideas out. Like, I'm not trying to write another cult novel or short story, but oh, what if this happened? And it's just, well, you know, jot it down, it'll come out someday.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

I totally relate. I have this uh alien mercenary kitty cat uh in my science fiction novel. I even did a little AI image, she's like super Jamie Lee Curtish hot with the little ears and whiskers. Oh, yeah. She's she's vicious, killer, really funny. And uh I realized just like you did that that the character itself is so strong that she could own her own book or series. And it sounds like you know, you took Colt and now you're writing something new, and Colt is kind of intruding on that. So if the character is good, it kind of drives you to start creating new content, whether it's a short story or whether it's a full-blown book. If the character's strong and the world is sound, you could really start hauling ass and and creating some great content because that character is is driving you along, right? Even if they become intrusive, like Colt is now barging into your new your Yeah, you know, and that's the thing about always be true to the character.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Um when I when I write Colt stories and I have a situation, I look and say, what would he say? I gotta go back to how did I build this character? What are his values? Um is he a talkative person? No. Um is he honorable? And that is probably his touchstone, knowing that we're at his core, what is this person like? And he'll choose to be honorable first unless he's forced into something else. And I think that relates to the Western flavor of of the uh unintentional angel, you know, the the Shane that walked right into the valley and he wants to give up, but it turns out that he can't, and he has to go back to what he was before.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

I think that's that's bang on. My alien kitty is the exact opposite. She's mean and vicious and narcissistic and brutal. That's how she starts. But then, circumstances, if she's gonna accomplish her goal, she's gotta chill out. So either way, there's gotta be an arc, an arc to it, right? That they start in a certain spot and then they they get hit with the world, and then they either gotta adapt and change, or they stubbornly don't. And the reader needs to be into that. Like, I want to see what this character is gonna do next.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah. By the way, what's the name of your book and is it out?

SPEAKER_02 26:58

The debut novel is Johnny Fizzuli and the Transfinite Reality Engine. It's like James and the giant peach, only it's crazy Douglas Adams hard science fiction. That came out last year, and I'm working on the prequel now with the the mercenary Minx, which is this hot kitty cat. And my my premise, yours is the rogue cowboy. My premise was taking the idea of the multiverse, like we live in just one of an infinite number of universes, and this hustler realizes that if it's true, or at least I can convince people that it's true, then there's gonna be another universe that's exactly the same as this one, except your wish happens to be true. So if you believe in the multiverse, there's endless variations of this podcast that are going on right now. And in some of them, I'm wearing a green polo shirt, and other ones you're wearing a cowboy hat. And this guy promises to create a machine that can read your wish and then take you to a universe where everything's the same except you happen to be a billionaire or you're married to Scarlett Johansson or whatever, and then he goes about fooling investors that he could build it to get the money, and usually he dips, he'll promise a self-sharpening pencil, and then people get excited, give him money, and then he dips. He just takes the monies and runs. Only this time he hires a scientist to try to fool people even more, and she actually builds it, and it actually works, and then all hell breaks loose. That that was my idea, and it's been fun as hell.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah, that's a great tag, too. You've you've set up the story, and then all hell breaks loose.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Yeah, the idea is one thing, but what you exemplify too is you've got a great idea, and in ways it's one of the oldest tropes, right? You got the lone gunman on the plane going from place to place, kicking ass, getting his ass kicked, and trying to find himself, and then finding love. That's pretty basic, but it's all in how you executed, right? Right. Yep. Tell us tell us about how you executed. So you you mentioned like you you were a roadie, you've got this interesting, diverse background, and writing is basically sitting on your ass. It's kind of hard, right? You need to learn skills, and then there could be a host of other things that you could be doing, and instead you're in your basement typing away. How did you make that jump from doing all the different things that you've been doing to having the determination and discipline and focus to actually write a novel? It's harder than it looks, right? Everyone says they're gonna write that book. Not very many people do it, not very many people do it well. How did you pull it off?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Well, I'll let everybody decide for themselves whether they pulled it off or not. But uh so far, so good, Rick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep talking, keep talking. I like what I'm hearing. Actually, um a major influence on the writing that I do uh was uh a podcast called The Writer Dojo, um, which is uh Steve Diamond and Larry Korea. Um it's currently on hiatus, but they said, you know, we're not gonna deal with a fluff. Let's get down to the nuts and bolts. Write, work, get paid, have fun. Um and so their approach was, and it's it didn't hit me till I heard this on the podcast, and that was you can't wait for the muse. You know, um, if you're an accountant, you can't go to work and tell your boss I just don't feel today. I'm just not I don't have the accounting muse. I'll I'm I'll I'll come back tomorrow. What's gonna happen? He's gonna fire you. Uh the bricklayer can't come in and say, I I I just don't feel it. Well, yeah, go home, do something else because you're not working here anymore. That was a transition from a hobby to a business, to a job. Um, you treat it like work. Uh every day you write, and I've set it, you know, set aside a minimum of an hour every day. And in this case, what worked for me was at the end of my day. Um everything else is done. Uh I was working two jobs at the time when I wrote you know the Ostrogaard novel, um two mundane world jobs. Plus, I was working on that at night. And treating it like a business instead of a hobby. Let me back up and say hobby is fine. Hobby is fun. If you want to write as a hobby, go for it. Have fun, you know. Um if you want to make money off of it, or you want somebody else to read it, if you want to head treat it as a business, then treat it like a business. Go to work every day, produce every day. Maybe you don't feel inspired every day, but get stuff down on the page. Now I'm really old school. Um I'm so old school that when I write, I use a legal pad and a pencil. Um and then I take and I write my stories over and over and over again. Same story over and over again. Pardon?

SPEAKER_02 32:43

By hand.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

By hand.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

So everything you see. That's that's cool, man. That's old, that is old school.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

You know, and eventually I get to the point where I say, I can't change another word. Rewriting it is not going to change. And then I take it to my computer, type it up, and print off, and then I start editing the print off because I'll see stuff I didn't see before and start correcting things. I'll do a couple versions of that.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

A lot of like big time uh old school writers do that. I mean, Hemingway obviously did that, but even Thomas Pinchon, the the writer with the big books, he everything on graph paper by hand, and the very last step is to enter it. David Foster Wallace, the writer of Infinite Jess, that big book, I believe he did the same thing. It's like, right, there's something special about writing by hand, it calms your ass down. There's nothing extraneous because there's a lot of carpal tunnel involved, and there's an organic thing to it. See, I'm the opposite. I'm like a maniac, I'm like 90 words a minute blind, and I'm but I really appreciate your more organic point of view. That is cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Well, and I have to say, I have a lot of admiration, admiration for folks who can sit down at a computer, blank page, and start writing. I mean, I think that's awesome. Uh maybe someday I'll I'll I'll be there. But for right now, writing by hand slows me down.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

I'm not sure it's an advantage. It might be more convenient, but uh, but if you you do fall into the trap of overwriting or overdoing it, typing 90 words a minute will probably do it for you.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Well, probably true. But and you're right, it slows me down so that I'll be writing the character or be writing something, and as I'm writing, something will pop in my head, and I'll just open the margins, add this, you know, add this thing later. You know, okay, it they don't have two guns, they only have one gun. Whatever. So, yeah, for me, it works. I don't recommend it for everybody. Uh, and like I said, I admire folks who can do that straight to a computer. Uh, or uh the other day I heard about people who um dictate their stories. It's like, holy cow, you know, you know, I applaud you, you know. Uh again, I'm just old dinosaur back here working on the paper.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Remember Alistair Crowley of uh Ozzy fame? He used to sing about Alistair Crowley of the occult. He he was a brilliant writer, by the way. He's a real personality, and he wrote some interesting stuff, and a lot of his stuff was spoken and then transcribed by somebody, which is interesting. And then if you read it, you're like, wow, that guy said that stuff. But uh, but but it it's it's been going on for quite some time, reading and then having it being written. And I think to your point, that that's fascinating too. There's as many styles of writing and approaches as there are writers, and just pick and choose what works best for you. But I love, love, love your best practice, which is just get it done, doesn't matter. Put in put in the time. I liken it too, you know, Madonna would have her period, and then she'd have to perform. She's a professional. Madonna was always a professional. She she did it regardless. And as a writer, you just you're in the mood, you're not. And there's this feeling, too, that just to your point, that you need the gates of heaven to open up and the muse just makes yourself available, and only then can it come out. No, man, you gotta bust it out, you gotta get that content out there. So I think that's a great piece of advice for newer writers and for writers who've been doing it for years, because it never gets any easier, right? It's hard.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

That's true. You know, and you know, the more you do it, the easier it becomes for you. I mean, you're using the metaphor of uh the creative muscle. Um, if in the hard times you write, in the easy times you're gonna write better because you've gone through and you've built that those good habits, those good insights, you know, that work ethic.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Um why writing, though, for you? You seem to be like an enterprising guy, and you're likening it to a business. Why why don't you just start buying and selling crypto with all that effort? Why why writing? Because just to be honest, I mean, even if you you're a hit, I I've had I have writers on the show, okay, and they're like nebula award winners. Some of them have been writing for two decades, and they're like they're a known commodity, they're a celebrity in science fiction. One Matthew Cressel, I had he's his latest book, Rainseekers, was just reviewed in the Wall Street Journal. So he's got press and he's like a name in science fiction. He's successful and he's got a day job. So and that's not to denigrate Matthew or his success, it's just to illustrate that if you're in it for the money, especially initially, even if you're a really successful writer, it's hard to yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Uh I'll give you an example. Um very early in writing, when it was still kind of a hobby for me, I could let it go or do it or not do it. Um, I was in a writing group um led by uh an author by the name of Rob Chilson. Uh he wrote uh Blackest Blood for Bain. Uh he's got like maybe five, six other novels uh over the course of probably 40, 50 years. Uh he worked every day at the IRS uh to support his writing habit. Um but he continued, I mean he wrote like 60 short stories that were published, you know, and he gave six novels, but he he couldn't afford to, you know, pay his rent with you know what he was writing. Um so some of it is a love of the craft. Um and uh as I've often told people, I I was always writing somewhere around fifth grade I wrote uh Attack of the Slime Molds, uh a one-page handwritten uh story that my uh my two daughters found in the attic and uh um encased it in plastic, gave it to me for Father's Day. I don't know where they found it, but they found it somewhere in the attic. But uh I've always loved uh telling the stories. So um I guess when I changed or when I took it seriously and said, you know, they're right, uh I I'm not gonna make a million dollars. You know, I've I've got to be realistic, you know, like like Clint Eastwood said, a man's got to know his limitations. I think it was him, him or maybe Paul Newman, somebody out there said that.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Quoting Montaigne or Nietzsche.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

See, this is another common theme when I when I talk to writers, is it's it's not like an overnight sensation. I didn't just wake up one morning and go, I'm gonna be a writer, and okay, let me give it a shot. You were five years old and you wrote that story, and I was like 10 years old with my first manual typewriter, one of those cur cur Corona typewriters. And I'm learning how to type I'm doing the two with the roll with the roller, and then you to hit return with the carriage. You know, young people don't even know what that is. That's even worse than a fax machine. You know, we used to type like that. My first damn short story was a multiverse story, you know what I mean? And like fast forward, you know, a few years, and my debut novel was the same theme. It's like it's burning inside, and I had to get it out. And it sounds like you've got that passion going on. So you are taking it seriously, you are treating it like a business, but the real energy behind it is this like inchoate and very powerful feeling that you are a writer.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Yeah, I'll tell you what also fuels me, and this is true, is that the feedback that people actually like the stuff, you know, and some people say something nice, and I'm sure this is true for every writer. It's just like, gosh, somebody bought it or somebody liked it. It just inspires you to go back to the page and start writing some more because it's just so much fun. Um, and you know, the the first time you see something in print that you've written, I mean, it's just an awesome feeling, and it it supercharges you.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

It is it is great. I just got a five-star review. I I wrote and published a play called Mr. Lawrence The Sky's Gone Out, and it's a corporate satire. So you have these shady corporate stooges in a high-rise overlooking a city, and they're doing their shenanigans, and in the middle of the day, in the middle of their work, the sky just blacks out, and then they have no idea what to do. It's kind of Twilight Zone meets the office. And I got a nice five-star review, and it looks like they actually read it and got into it. And uh and I was very flattering, it felt good that I was making that connection with somebody who enjoyed the the play, so it's not just me toiling, it's not just making a couple bucks, but it's actually having somebody enjoy it and and provide some feedback. It's a good we write for others to read, and our ideas are meant to be ultimately entertaining.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yes, absolutely. If I'm not entertaining, then I'm not doing my job.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

And the first book here, the first big book is it entertained me. So you got you got a fan already and of one. What what are what are you and Recontour doing to get it out there? I I believe it launches April 23rd. Am I right that that's your launch date? So it's coming up. So this is like a launch party for Colt Ostergaard, the man with the gun. Here we are, and I'll get this out before then to to kind of celebrate.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

And obviously, you could you could share the link and then we can build up some some woo-hoos. But uh, what what else are you doing? What's Recontour doing, and what's the relationship like between you as an author in this crazy world of just so much content online and everywhere, so many options for readers, and Recontour specializing this and supporting you. How does how does this shake out?

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Um, right I can't say enough good things about the folks at Rec Press. Um, they are uh Ian, uh the the publisher himself, the big cheese, um the big gona, uh he's a very Texan man. And I say that um really as a compliment because if he says something that's Way it is. He doesn't even have to shake your hand. And you can bank on it. And that's that flavor has really permeated all of Rackingur Press. They're straightforward, they're transparent. They want you to succeed. They'll do what they can to help you succeed. And sometimes, even if they don't want something you've written, they'll give you hints and uh help in saying, you know, you can do this over here, or you can try this, or here's how to you know self-publish, and we'll we'll give you a few Kickstarter ideas here to get you moving. Um they really live the idea that a rising tide lifts all ships. Um so in terms of a relationship, I've never had another publisher. Um I don't know what it's like. I'm like the fly in a jar full of vinegar. I don't know what it's like because I've never been anywhere else. But I love it. Uh uh, and these are the people that you want to go hang out with. You married the first girl you dated. Yeah, I guess I did. Um and that's you know, dance with the one you brung, you know, or or however that goes. Go home with the one you I don't know. There's so many metaphors in there, but what I'm uh what I'm saying is that they're good folk. Um for instance, like um the media they're using, uh, primarily the ones that I see are like on Substack and uh some other social media, they'll actually you know put out uh blurbs like once or twice a month. Um uh just as a matter of fact, today uh they have an anthology called anti anti-heroes. It's a play on the word anti. It's about um your aunt as a hero, uh, or grandmother or stepmother, or you know, the older ladies who aren't just knitting, they're actually going out there and you know, defeating aliens and uh and near do wells. Um I was lucky enough to get a story in that one with along with a lot of other people that I really respect. But um earlier this week they put out several images in talking about what's coming up and talking about the stories, and uh and I add to that. I just had Colt uh uh promote their book for them. Um so I create stuff, I create contact, and sometimes they just restack or republish the content that I put out there. Um again, I like putting blurbs or pieces of of you know text or dialogue and and putting a picture along with it. Um I hadn't quite found a place to put Shelby yet, but uh I'm being real careful with that.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Yeah, I'm I'm uh putting her on my wall. I'm gonna print her out. A pinup. Actually, I'm gonna put her right behind you. See this blank wall behind me? Here, yeah, I'm just gonna put her.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

You know, I need to speak to Rack Press, and maybe we need to make a calendar for 2027 of like Shelby and other characters.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

That's an awesome idea. That's a great marketing idea. Great. I'm telling you though, it's so rare to have an illustrated speculative fiction book, and it's even rarer to have a space cowboy illustrated book. That's a real differentiator for you. Yeah, and it helps with the marketing, to your point. You got great content for ads and swag. You can make t-shirts and stuff that people are excited about. So this is great. I mean, I love the idea that Recantor is is stacking and restacking on Substack. I'm on Substack too. So, my one quick observation is you know, woo-hoo, but the other one is it's kind of like uh a cross in a desk drawer with some garlic in Transylvania. It's it's just not enough. You know what I mean? It's like the the vampires are out to get you, which is just it's so competitive out there. So you you're you're dead in the water without some kind of pay to advertising, and then obviously publishers do their own multimedia marketing. There's conference events, like I'm going to the LA Festival of Books this weekend with some writers, and we're gonna hang out. We got a booth and all that stuff. So when the rubber hits the road for book promotions beyond like these almost casual social media pings, um, do you guys have a campaign? How does Recontour sell books for you? And then what do they expect from you as a writer to go out and promote it?

SPEAKER_00 48:51

What do they do to campaign? Um, I think they pick and choose uh the conventions that they can appear at. And uh when they get the opportunity, yeah, they uh they put all the books out. Um they've had racks and racks of books uh you know at their booth. Um the more that you interact with other people who are walking by, um, people buy from people that they like or people that they know. Um I spent 20 years uh selling advertising for uh Southwestern Bell. And um that's one of the things they pounded into you is that you know you need to be able to relate to the person you're talking to. If you want them to buy your ad, they buy from people they like, they buy from people they think are like them that they're comfortable with. Uh and you do that at conventions and you say hi, you say howdy, you make yourself accessible. Um you're not um you're not a snooty author who you know wears patches on his sports coat. Uh no patches on mine, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

You're you're a do you're a douche in Vermont holding seminars for grad students. Yeah.

unknown 50:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

That's not gonna sell too many books.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Yeah, you know, so there's that. So they'll do conventions and they'll do other social media. Now, um, and there's contributions. Um one of the writers in uh antiheroes, uh Nancy Fry, she put together and shot actually, because she's got some major uh movie background uh in terms of uh support and uh costuming and role-playing and things like that. Um, she and her husband. Um she shot last year at the writer's cantina in Utah, uh Salt Lake, uh, she saw shot a bunch of scenes with um three of the Rack Press writers and uh in in costume as cowboys, as space cowboys with ray guns. Love it!

SPEAKER_02 50:58

That's great. That cosplay stuff is if you go to any Comic-Con, like I was just at LA Comic-Con, Pasadena, WonderCon. Part of the fun is just dress up day. Yes, you know, you're walking around, and there's a stormtrooper, there's Darth Vader, right? There's Alice from Wonderland, and then these uh these niche characters, too, from a lot of speculative fiction, science fiction, fantasy, the TV shows. They're all they're all dressed up and walking around. I think that's so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

That's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Yeah, I was tempted, I'm not gonna do it, but I was tempted to show up in a cow suit. Let me clarify. Not the one with like udders, but a full sports coat and pants dressed as a Holstein. Do it. I know you're gonna say that. Well, we'll see. Um I'm not sure I want to invest that much in the dress up like Colt, you know, be your dude. Uh and I'll be honest, I I just don't have the form to be colt. I'll I'll let somebody else be cold.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

That cosplays fun going out there and relating to authors. You know, I'll know that my alien kitty cat is a hit eventually, is if I'm at a if I'm at a con and I see somebody walking right by me dressed up like my alien kitty cat, my mercenary minx. If there's someone mercenary minxing, I'll be like, Yes, I have arrived.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

That's you know, that is pretty awesome. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

So, in summary, it's like if you're a writer, then get off your ass and just do it. STFU and type. Yes, but in chair, hands-on keyboard, right? Just that that's the one one one term I heard from Mr. Holmes recently. And so STFU and type, and then treat it like a business. You're in the mood, you're not in the mood, get in that hour a day, just do it. That's number one. Number two, stay consistent to your character. Like, you got a world you've created, make it make sense. Like, understand how your character is gonna talk, what what they're gonna do, and then be sensitive to your audience. Like, know you're writing for somebody, you're connecting with somebody, and treat it like a business, take it seriously, and also tap into your own passion as a writer. Something's bound to happen. And you can get you could get lucky like Rick. You're like, you could you could hit painter or at least you know get your publisher and get out there uh if you just put your head and heart to it.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Yeah. And something else I'll add for anybody that's you know working or trying to break in and get a f their first publisher don't get your dauber down. Don't let somebody rain on your parade. Um my best friend many, many years ago, um I started writing a fantasy. I read like several pages and I showed it to him. And I still had a story story before, but he looked at me and he said, You use too many big words. It's kind of like oh, and that just crashed me for years. Um didn't write, didn't try. Um because he was my best friend. He would know. Well, no. Sometimes you can't trust your best friend, you know. Uh there's um uh a phrase, show me your friends and I'll show you your future. That applies really to other writers. Show me the writers that you hang out with and I will show you your future because they will inspire you, they will mentor you, they will you know give you opportunities, they will network with you. Um choose the right gang and you'll you'll see your future.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

I think that's great advice. People are jealous of each other. We sometimes think that drama just happens on the page or on the screen, but drama happens in our lives each and every day, and they're good guys and bad guys. Yep, and they're people whom you might trust the most that you show your greatest vulnerability to, and then because you do that, they're in a position where they can crush you. Yeah, and don't let that happen. Be be careful about that, especially as an artist. Because we're you know, when especially when you're starting, it's like, is this any good? I mean, I think it's good. What do you think? The second you appeal to someone who isn't a writer or doesn't have a vested interest in your success, you're exposing yourself to their judgment. And when you do that, it's very, very dangerous. They've got you by the cojones, and unfortunately, when you give people that kind of power, a lot of times they're gonna take it, and you gotta be careful.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

Now, this will happen. Um your mom will want to read it. Okay, let her read it, but don't take it too seriously. I mean, she loves you, she'll say, Oh, it's nice, or maybe she'll say, Oh, you shouldn't be saying those kinds of things in print. Whatever. Mom is mom, but deal with the market that you want to sell to, you know, deal with other writers.

SPEAKER_02 56:21

That's another great observation. Like, let's say you're an accountant or you're like a nuclear physicist, okay? And then you're you put together like your you do your math and you've concluded that this you know engineering widget should be placed this way and not that way. All right. Are you gonna show it to your girlfriend? Are you gonna show it to your mom? And then if you do, say, hey, look what I did. They're not gonna know what the hell you just did. Why do you expect them to judge you? Right. Right. He's like, good job.

unknown 57:00

Good job.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

So pick your audience, pick your readers, but also pick the people whom you want to like check your stuff out in a way where they're educated and they're on your side, otherwise you're screwed. Yeah, yeah, that's great advice.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

It's not that easy. It's not that easy. Um, I was in a writer's group, and uh, somebody who actually had been published looked at my manuscript and said, You're only allowed one exclamation point per story. It's like the heck, you say. That's not my group.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

And the other thing, too, if you're gonna be different and make a name for yourself, you're gonna be unique in some kind of way. You got your own distinct thing going on. And if you're unique and distinct, you're automatically gonna be disruptive and you're gonna kind of break the mold and you're gonna irritate people, and especially if they've got something that they've established which is different from what you're doing. Okay, no, one exclamation point, or you know, you can go tell Eddie Van Halen that he's not allowed to use this finger. Really? You know, it's like be careful where you're getting your advice from and who you share your shit with. And to your point, look to other people who are successful, who know what the hell they're talking about, and ultimately have your interest in their interest. Yeah, it's it sounds obvious, but there's so many landmines as a creative person, and it could get so discouraging, and it's good to protect yourself. And I'm so glad you bring this up. You're you're the first guest I've had. You're podcast number 42, I think, in the science fiction series. And and I appreciate you bringing that up because it's an item that a lot of people overlook or don't want to talk too much about, but I think that it's very important for your own sanity and success. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

But like I said, if you want to nothing wrong with it being a hobby, I totally support anybody who wants to write as a hobby, show it to your mom. Yeah, that's cool. Um but if you're gonna do if you're gonna be business, then do business and treat it like a business. But we've we've run that down before.

SPEAKER_02 59:22

And protect your ass while you do it, right? Just like you're running a business, right? You're you're it's competitive out there. People are mean, people can be mean. So so protect your own assets and uh and and gun it and have have your goal in mind. So this is this is just terrific. What's what's next step for Mr. Rick? For Mr. Rick Cutler and uh Mr. Colt Osttergaard. It sounds to me like you're not done with the guy.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

No, I'm not. Um, I thought I was, but I in the uh in the novel, uh A Man with a Gun, Colt Ostergaard, a man with a gun, uh, there's a large gap where I can fill in 20 dozen more stories. Um and I've left it that way, so I always have that out to be able to say, you know, um, this happened back then, this happened over here, this happened here. So uh yeah, uh there'll be some more cult, I think. Um yeah, it just kind of depends on the weather, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

You're already working on the other book though, right? You've already got the other book that cult is barging into, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

Yes. Uh that uh there's a whole full novel that's in a slush pile, um waiting for uh uh the right time and place. It's actually in the same universe as Colt. I didn't have to reinvent anything, I just went to a uh a different planet and uh a different time. So that is complete, that's being considered. Um it made it past the first round of slush saying, Well, we didn't throw it back. So I'm hopeful for it. But what I'm doing right now is writing the sequel to that particular novel. Um that one is uh well, the the novel that's under consideration is A Wild C the Wild Colonial Boy. The sequel is Shipwrecked on Paradise, which I'm about halfway through right now. Um and when I'm done with those two, if Colt hasn't called me back, I'll probably take uh the fantasy that I mentioned, which was, you know, uh okay, but needs work, I'll probably redo that one because I think it's got really good bones left on it. And I'm at a point where I've learned enough that I think I can produce a good solid story out of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

I think that's exciting. You got this momentum going from the world with all these characters. It's kind of like after you got Breaking Bad, you got Better Call Saul, and they're they're all they're all busting out of that energy. And then you're building your fan base too, because if they're digging on Colt, the man with the gun, then they'll be curious about these other characters. And if it's happening another planet in that world, then you feel like you're building almost your creative franchise from that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

And what's sweet about that is in the novel, which takes place after the Colt Ostergart novel, um, you can throw Easter eggs in there. That somebody says, Oh, I know where that came from, you know, and so that makes it fun for the reader who will have read the previous book will see things pop up in a totally different character's world.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

If you're a flat fan of Black Mirror on Netflix, they do Easter eggs from one episode to another. And Quentin Tarantino does it in his movies as well. There's little little little hat tips to his his own work, and of course, hat tips to other things that we know and that we love growing up that has influenced what we do, and that that's super fun because it it ties things together and then like a little wink to the readers to know that we're all in it to win it in that in that kind of meta sense is is really really fun. So awesome, awesome, Rick. Uh super fun conversation. Check out the book, folks, coming out April 23rd. We'll have links in the description of the audio and the video, and uh keep keep it rocking. This I I was hugely entertained. I think the illustrations are phenomenal too and can have their own life to them. You gotta do that calendar. And if you put out a poster, I'm I'm putting it right back up here. Good luck to you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, like, comment, share, subscribe, folks, to the science fiction and fantasy factory. And I'd love to follow up with you six months and a year, see what else you got cooking. Let's do it. And uh, and uh, and a salute to Recontour Press as well for being such a good partner for writers, writers who are just starting out, writers who've been in biz for a while, and helping every step of the way. That's what I'm finding out about these smaller, more intimate presses, is they work with you on your ideas. So if you've got game and you demonstrate that level of commitment and you have the taste then and the content that they're looking for, it's collaborative. So, writers, you're not on your own. If you hook up with a publisher, especially a good publisher, they're your ally, not your enemy. And together you can make some great music together, and at very least, some cool speculative science fiction books.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Hang tight. Take care, Rick. Thank you.