The Science Fiction & Fantasy Factory
Hosted by writer and ranter Mookie Spitz, the SFFF is where science fiction & fantasy creators, fans, and technologists transform imagination into reality. Each episode explores how writers, filmmakers, and world-builders bring their universes to life, with personal stories about turning wild ideas into finished projects that connect, inspire, and thrill. From indie authors to visionary engineers, Mookie uncovers the creative engines powering the future of sci-fi & fantasy storytelling!
The Science Fiction & Fantasy Factory
Elliot Blake: Skip the Permission, Launch the Sci-Fi Novella
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Elliot Blake has spent his career inside the entertainment industry, directing Sir Ben Kingsley and Helen Mirren on Audible's Moriarty trilogy, executive producing Apple TV's The Sisters Grimm, working on an Emmy-winning Tomb Raider series. On this episode of Science Fiction & Fantasy Factory, he joins Mookie to talk about his debut novella, Into the Great, and the very different, very DIY road that got it into print.
Elliot's novella mashes up genres most writers keep separate: military sci-fi conflict, a full alien invasion, and a real romance at its core, all pulling from influences like William Gibson's The Peripheral, This Is How You Lose the Time War, and The Expanse. The book's central metaphor came into focus almost by accident. Elliot started writing it right around the 2024 election, using the story as a place to retreat from a world that felt like it was on fire, and an early reader pointed out that the aliens in his book, silent, invulnerable beings who arrive and simply observe, were really standing in for the disorienting speed of political, environmental, and technological change itself.
Into the Great comes from Li'l Factory AB, a Swedish boutique press run by former video game executive David Polfeldt, printing just 500 numbered, hardbound copies. Elliot and Mookie dig into what it actually takes to launch a book that small and that independent, from an ASMR unboxing video his Gen Z daughter talked him into, to a local reading at Romans Bookstore in Pasadena.
The conversation turns sharp when AI comes up. Elliot draws a hard line: he wants no part of generative AI in his creative process, and makes a genuinely compelling case for why. Drawing on years spent in writers' rooms and animation studios, he argues that collaboration creates serendipity no single mind, human or machine, can replicate, and that removing people from the process removes the actual magic of making something. He and Mookie also take on Hollywood's current identity crisis: franchise fatigue, oversaturation, and why scarcity, not more content, might be exactly what audiences are hungry for.
The Guest
Elliot Blake is an Emmy-winning animation producer, former Amazon Studios production and development executive, and writer. He is the executive producer of the animated Apple TV kids series The Sisters Grimm, the EP and director of the flagship Audible Original series Moriarty, and the author of the forthcoming science fiction novella Into the Great.
Some of his past work includes the Emmy-winning animated web series Tomb Raider: ReVisioned, the cocktails and comedy podcast Daydrinking with Gary & Elliot, and the crime comic The Package. He's also a creative consultant, with past clients including preschool entertainment giant Moonbug Entertainment and video game developer PlayerUnknown Productions.
More from Elliot Blake: https://elliotblake.com
Get the book: https://lilfac.com
Hello and welcome to Science Fiction and Fantasy Factory, and I'm thrilled to have Elliot Blake in the factory with us today. Welcome aboard. Thank you for having me. You are a producer, you are an author, and Into the Great is your debut novel. What got you writing? You've got an illustrious career, it seems, in animation, in production, work for different studios. What brought you to the science fiction quill, as it were?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's always been my favorite genre. And uh, I mean, going back to when I was a little kid, and um probably I I would say you have Star Wars to blame for that, but I already knew of Star Trek. I was Captain Kirk was my favorite. There's a picture of me with uh uh uh at my six-year-old uh uh birthday party with my uh Captain Kirk action figure uh that I got for my sixth birthday. So um, you know, so it's always always been it's always been important to me. I always loved the space program and the idea of of flying through space on a cool spaceship and the gold shirt uh with uh with a Star Trek logo on it, uh Starfleet, I uh uh uh you know, insignia. And um and so when I got started writing as at a very uh at a very early age, I I think I I've pretty much been a storyteller my my most of my life. I've just uh I love fiction. My parents encouraged uh uh reading uh read at an early age and and I I read, you know, I started reading comic books, you know, as soon as I could, as soon as I could read, probably before I could read, and and uh and then I I think I have to give a lot of credit, I think, not just to my parents, but to uh my third grade teacher, Mrs. Hugelmeyer, um uh who uh had us all write books, uh picture books, uh, you know, at eight years old. And uh I wrote a book, uh uh a picture book called The Big Mac Attack, which is exactly what it's what it sounds like. But these Big Macs came from space and and they uh and they attacked people. I don't know. There was probably more blood on the page than than should be uh for um uh a third grade book, but you know, it was you can get away with a little bit more in 1978 than you can now.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm officially dedicating this podcast to Mrs. Fugelmeyer. Hugelmeier. What's her name? Hugelmeier with an H. Oh, Hugel, Hugelmeyer. How do you forget that name? I think that's terrific. We have a handful of mentors throughout our lives. I have one middle school English teacher, I don't even recall her name, and she beat the passive voice out of us. She said, never ever use it is, there is, it was, there was, and she says, it was, what was? Be specific, be clear. That's right, it is the passive voice, and it was mean, and you know what? That's the best advice I've ever heard in my entire life. It's I mean, it's solid. You can't go wrong. Totally solid. So here's to Mrs. Hugelmeyer, the uh the unnamed teacher who inspired me never to use the passive voice. And here's to the authors and creators who've inspired us in science fiction. Star Wars. I used to run home from school to see Star Trek reruns on WGN Channel 9 in Chicago. And I was a tender age of 12 or 13 when Star Wars hit the big screen, and I could I couldn't believe it. I didn't know that you could do that. And it and it literally changed my life.
SPEAKER_01I can't tell you how many people uh that I know in my business that have said the same thing. I mean, I I was seven and when my dad when it opened and my dad took me, and and uh it it just it it blew my seven-year-old mind. I mean, right from that very first moment when the Star Destroyer comes in over the top of the camera, and and uh I was just I was in, I was hooked.
SPEAKER_00My next one was William Gibson's Neuromancer, the early 80s classic that pretty much launched the cyberpunk genre. He anticipated the internet, virtual reality, genetic engineering. It was delightfully anachronistic, too. He didn't predict smartphones. So in case he's walking up the street and Wintermute, the AI bad guy wants to contact him, the payphones are ringing in succession. So I love that time kind of dilation. And if I got it right, your new novel, Into the Great, has does it have some time play in it? Because you cite that your novel is for the fans of several books that have time play in it, including Gibson's own peripheral.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is which I which I love. It's one of my favorite books. Uh Gibson's been is I I would say he's more of uh it's more of a spiritual uh uh connection to Gibson in this, uh, just because all of his work has been hugely important to me. And uh and the the peripheral was one of those that uh just absorbed me from the moment that I that I read it, and I've probably read it uh three or four times now, and I feel like I get something different out of it every time. But the thing that I that I find uh uh most uh I don't know, uh uh accurate maybe is that uh he pretty he he he comes up with this idea that uh these kleptocrats in the future have figured out a way to send information back in the past through kind of a quantum tunneling. And in doing so, it splits off uh the timelines. And I have been convinced since um a certain somebody got elected in 2016 that that's what happened to us and that we are now in a in a in a stub. Um and uh and which I think accounts for a lot, but I don't mess around with the timeline so much as it uh in this book as as uh I do play around just a little bit with uh uh POV and and perspective. So it starts off with one character's POV, and then we kind of just track back a little bit and start off with another character's POV in the in the second part of the book, and then in part three, they're they're unified. But no, you know, no time travel. That gives me that gives me a headache.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it can get a little bit complicated by definition, especially with the looping and the contradictions and the paradoxes. You also cite how to lose a time war, which is this epistolary novella where you got red and blue writing back and forth, zigzagging through time, and it's a romance. And uh, and you cite your novel being romantic. That's one crossover you don't see that much in science fiction, even in fantasy, is this this romance subgenre that creeps in. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Get us a little excited.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean it's it's defin Into the Great is definitely a it's a definitely a sci-fi book, but the romance is a big is a big part of it. And it it factors in because you you've got two characters who are kind of on, they're on, I mean, not even kind of, they are on opposite sides of the of the law. And but they find something in each other uh that uh that that draws them together. And in drawing them, in it being drawn together, they find uh kind of control of their own destiny. Because they're both they're both they're in similar places when the the when the book starts, and that they're both stuck in situations that they would like to get out of and they can't see a clear way out of. Um and but in meeting they they they find it. And um and yeah, and I I'm a big I don't I always uh I don't read a lot of romance books, but I I I'm a big believer in love. I love love, and I and I think that it's a good thing, it's a good force in people's lives, and and and I and so uh and it's important. It's important to how we move forward as human beings. And so I it felt like very natural uh to to have that be part of this story. And um it was it was it's really the grounding force in the story. Uh there the science fiction, the big science fiction element is that it takes place in the future, and there are aliens and spaceships and all these things that I love. Uh, and there's kind of an alien, there's an alien invasion of human space uh by these uh beings that that uh are are named the Orium because which is Latin uh uh for golden uh or golden people and and um which I I uh used a translator for that. I I don't know Latin. And uh but these aliens, they're these these uh humanoid, uh beautiful, invulnerable beings, and they don't shoot at anybody, they don't talk to anybody, they just arrive and they stare and and and and observe quietly.
SPEAKER_00They sound like my ex-wife.
SPEAKER_01I can't speak to that, but uh they you know, but it's very it's very destabilizing. So perhaps there's some kind of connection there. Um but it's destabilizing, but the arrival of these aliens is destabilizing for humanity and it and and their arrival, even though the the characters don't really interact with the aliens, uh and the aliens are sort of their background players, they have an impact on every level of the story.
SPEAKER_00I like how character-driven the novel seems to be, and it's got a a world-building element of military science fiction, because you've got conflict, you've got this disruption, you cite the expanse as another fan base that might tap into your work, as well as the old man's war, which is the Skellsy book, where again you've got a jump where uh an older man is in the body of a younger Marine or fighter and gets to, in a sense, live again. So you've got that theme, you've got conflict, aliens, and romance. I know authors hate it when you make comparisons to other writers or other works, but readers like to get a frame of reference. They like to know where they're starting from. And uh it does paint a picture for your novel as being distinctive and fun. And I hope so engaging.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean that's what I was going for. And I'm and I don't I don't look if anybody wants to compare me to uh Scalzi, um I have no problem for it. Uh yeah, go for it. Uh and if you can match it on sales, definitely go for it. Uh so um, although there's there's uh I guess I shouldn't say is that these books, so the the books are all from this uh uh boutique uh uh publisher uh based out of Sweden called Lil Factory. And um and he my publisher, uh a guy named David Polfelt, brilliant guy, he uh prints in limited uh edition these beautiful uh beautiful copies of of the book that are hardbound with cloth covers and they're printed on on thick paper, and they're just they're fantastic and they they smell great, uh if you're into the that great book smell. And uh but he only prints 500 copies of each book in his line. So um so I if if we could sell at 500, I would feel like I'd reached it, would be a great goal for it's a great goal for me, and I I would feel like I'd reached uh even though it's not directly comparable to to Scalsey level sales, I would feel very good about it.
SPEAKER_00The independent indie writer is its own adventure. Uh I'm one as well, and I've been at the Comic Cons setting up booths and online and pitching my book where where I could and try to. And getting one sale or 10 or 100 is thrilling. But the onus is on us to get the word out. How did you connect with Little Factory A B of all the possible ways to publish? And then what do you guys plan on doing to burn through the 500? How you how are you gonna go about marketing this thing?
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, um so the origin story of the book and my connection with Little Factory is that uh I I was I I work as a creative consultant uh occasionally as well, and I was doing some creative consulting for a video game company called Player Unknown uh Productions, and it was the the video game company uh from the guy who created uh uh PUBG or Player Unknowns Battlegrounds. And uh he had started his own company, and um I was helping him develop some concepts uh and um and some backstory lore, as they call it in the video game uh business. And uh uh he brought on David uh to help him uh with the business side of things because uh David's main line of work is is video is video games. Uh he he uh has run uh the studios for uh I'm probably gonna get this wrong, but for like Ubisoft and like Tom Clancy's The Division was one of the games. He but he and I just hit it off right from right from the start. And he's a lover of science fiction and a writer himself, and a quite a good one. And uh uh he decided that um he was going to start up uh a boutique publisher to kind of put out stories that that he personally found interesting and and that he wanted that he cared about, that he wanted to put out. And he asked me after we were done with our our both happened to be done with our uh consulting uh gig, uh he reached out and he said, Do you have any anything uh that I might want to publish? Uh and I happened, I did. I had Into the Great, which actually started as a comic book uh that I had attempted to kickstart and uh so that I could pay uh for an artist. And the the this that particular Kickstarter didn't didn't work out. We fell uh short of our goal. And I I um tried for uh some time after that to kind of figure out different ways of doing it and figuring out ways of paying people, and and I just couldn't just couldn't justify the expense uh uh with uh you know paying you know two kids and tuitions and all that kind of stuff. It just so it just it it it uh got put on the back burner. But I have a I have a difficult time uh letting go of of story ideas uh that that don't come to fruition somehow. And um and this one was just it was just rattling around back there. And I I I I always wanted to come back to it. And when he said, Hey, do you have anything? That was the one I thought of. And I and I thought, well, I think I could I think I could maybe write this as a as a prose story, and um I just need to remember how to do that because I hadn't written prose fiction since I was in college.
SPEAKER_00Since the Big Mac attack.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, since the Big Mac attack. Now there were some short stories in the intervening time. Um, but but really, I mean, I hadn't but I hadn't done it since I graduated, you know, since I was in college, and that had that had been a few years. And uh I uh I'd been working in TV uh primarily. Uh did some did some time working in in on the movie side of thing also, but I'm a primarily I'm an animation producer and working in television, and I had and so I'd spent most of my time uh working on on scripts. And when you're writing, you know, like teleplays, screenplays, uh audio drama scripts, uh, because I also have a show called Moriarty on on Audible that I'm the executive producer and uh uh director of. Um when you're working on on scripts, you're it you're describing what's happening, and you don't necessarily have to go too deep into the thought process of the characters, you know, just enough to so that the an actor who's reading the script knows what what you're thinking, but you don't but it's all you're you're writing visually if you're doing your job correctly, or or write orally if it's for the ears, but the the um but you're writing visually and you're counting on your actor to give all that interiority life, and it's sort of up to them to to figure out what that is and and to bring it to life. And I have known this, but I think do you know just because I'm an active reader, um, when you're writing prose, it's all it's I mean obviously there's action and there's dialogue and all that kind of stuff, but it's very interior, you're in your character's head, and so I had to figure out what those characters really wanted, which was different than what I needed to do writing them as a comic book, uh, you know, for for a comic. And uh, but then I also had to figure out how to write in past tense. Um I scripts are always written in present tense, and it was and so the first couple of drafts of of the book uh were um were all in present tense, and then uh working with editors, I kind of I figured it out, and then I got into the rhythm, and then it was fine. Uh and and now the book is as most books are written in it's it's it's a past tense thing. But it was a good learning experience.
SPEAKER_00Present tense has had its had its day. You know, there's a a surge of present tense with the whole postmodern thing. Yeah. And and some people still do the present tense as as a way to convey immediacy and action.
SPEAKER_01I had there was a there was an earlier version of this book where um we jumped around, it was a little less linear than it is now. Uh it's it's it was a um it was way more nonlinear. And so I was mixing tenses. Uh there was the past tense, the stuff that was happening in the past was in past tense, the stuff that was happening in the present was present tense, and we all decided that that was too confusing. Uh so you know, the last thing I want is to confuse anybody. I'd I'd like it to be a good, I'd like it to be a good read that is uh uh entertaining.
SPEAKER_00So did you have professional editors? Did you have a buddy who who helped you out? What was your approach to the actual production of the novel?
SPEAKER_01Um so uh Lil Factory provides some pro editors uh uh that to to work with. And so uh and it goes so the the steps were I I wrote the first half uh of the story and sent it to the publisher, and he read it and he said, Yes, keep going. Uh uh I'll I want to do this. Uh and then once I got a completed draft, he put it in the hands of a of a first reader, and that first reader's job really was to um to provide initial feedback and uh to help me kind of really figure out what it was that I was writing about. And I sort of knew in the back of my head, but he uh this first editor really nailed it on the head because we had been talking, and I because I was writing this, uh I guess I really started it towards the around the time of the 2024 election, and then was deep into it at right after it. And so in that in that first year, uh and there was just a lot of stuff happening, and I that I personally, you know, found um distressing, and uh and it it was nice, it was good, it was really good to have something to retreat into uh that I could distract myself with. And I was so I was able to to just to work. Uh, but it also there was a I felt a certain cognitive dissonance in being able to in in doing work while it felt like the world was starting to burn. And um and he I d and we were talking about this, and he said, Well, isn't that what you're writing about? And and I and I I and I was like, oh yeah, I I I guess it is. And because for me, and look, you know, anybody who reads it, they can take whatever they want from it. I know that once you once you put something out into the world, it's not really yours anymore, and and the interpretation is left to the reader, the consumer of whatever it is that you've made. But for me, the aliens in the book really do represent this this they they're right, they mean they're they're representative of rapid change. And and that change. Change could be political change, that could be environmental change, it could be technological change, and we're in the midst of all of it right now. And um, and so uh what I so by using the aliens kind of as the metaphor for all of that, I was able to kind of take my my main characters and put them in a position where they could choose how they wanted to live in this in that moment uh that they're in. And and and we all have responsibilities and and and things that we not just have to do, but need to do for our own personal uh to be able to function, I guess. I mean it's like, yeah, you know, you you still have to pay your bills, you still have to make dinner, but you still got to make time for the people that you love, and you have to, you know, and and and take your eye off of the the thing that is whatever it is that's distressing you, or that's that it feels like a giant threat, so that you can recharge yourself and have energy to deal with whatever it is. And um, and that is uh that was the thing that I discovered with working with an editor. You know, it was like, ah, that's really what the the theme of the book is. And so once I got that, I was able to make sure I you know to go back through the draft again and make sure that I was kind of expressing that uh theme, not in a in a didactic way, but in a you know, in a way that made sense uh through the storytelling and through how you know through the actions of the characters. And um then I we went and then I then once I made it through that, uh, you know, and and and uh David, my publisher, also pushed me uh to be bolder and and maybe weirder uh uh with with the aliens and and that kind of stuff. And so I got a lot of you know, it was my story and I was in control of it. But what I got out of the editorial process was um a lot of great encouragement and uh and and ideas for uh you know, like or and like not necessarily concrete ideas like hey, you should do this, more just like is this like someone recognizing something in the writing and saying, well, you know, if you build on that, you you might get to X place. And and that I I it was incredibly valuable uh uh all the way through.
SPEAKER_00Sounds like you lucked out. You had conciliatory, helpful people, both in terms of the publisher and the editor. And uh you learned how to how to walk that tightrope between writing escapist science fiction and making it resonate emotionally with the turmoil that you were experiencing politically and culturally at the time. So finding that that line between the two is really the art of of good writing, I think, which is uh how do you channel your everyday life into something that's fantastic long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Part of the appeal was it's it's it's away from all the problems that we're facing. But if you divorce it too much, then the characters don't resonate emotionally, and the circumstances don't resonate emotionally. So you need to find a balance, and it sounds like that's what they help you find.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I think so. And um, you know, and also I there's there's something like the my favorite science fiction is always it's it's I mean, look, I I think the best science fiction, and I'm not saying my book is the best science fiction, although I do think it's pretty good. Um, it it is about now. Star Trek is all about now. Uh and especially the original series. It was or it was about exploring what was happening at the time, and uh, but but using the the tropes of of sci-fi to to talk about all sorts of th of all sorts of issues. Um but I also like sci-fi that kind of feels like you know, where um, and Gibson does is is is good at this, is uh it's where it feels like the more things change, the more they stay the same. And where you recognize when there's hallmarks of of things that you know are are just true about people that just carry through, you know, whatever era you happen to be writing in. And just like, for example, like this in the book, and this isn't a spoiler, is that um there's a there's a scene that takes place at a spaceport and uh where characters have to cue to go through security. Yeah it's not really it's not really any different than what we have to deal with now. My dad, my dad was is uh got his copy and was uh reading it, and he was like, why, why, why, Elliot? Did you it's like shouldn't it be shouldn't it be more efficient? And I said, That's the thing, dad, is that people just aren't efficient. You know, we're messy. And so I felt like I wanted to that was something I wanted to uh portray in the book.
SPEAKER_00Science fiction as a genre does that balancing act. So you as the writer are trying to find equilibrium, as it were, between the chaos of your everyday life and our politics and our culture and escapism. And to your point, science fiction when it's good isn't about the federation across the whole galaxy or time warps or whatever. It's about people dealing with issues and solving them and working out working out age-old dilemmas and answering, who am I? Why am I here? What the hell is going on? Yeah. And and if if you can find the balance there too, then then it's good science fiction. It's grounded in what we care about. Otherwise, it would be a Wikipedia article on transluminal travel or antimatter or wormholes. It's uh it's it's one of the tropes and problems that a lot of science fiction writers get into. I I call it hate, which is here's an idea, the end. Where, wow, you know, you can have people walking on a neutron star or five-dimensional aliens, but so what? I mean, it's gotta be dramatic, it's gotta hold true to us as humans, and ultimately it's gotta be a good story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, you want it to be about something. I mean, it doesn't and like it doesn't reduce the escapism when it is about something. And I think that's like the like one of the beautiful things about Star Trek and about the ideas in Star Trek is that it shows how if we all pull together, we can do great things. And and that's a constant theme that runs through through the uh you know the each episode and through all the series. Um, and you know, but then even if you look at at a movie like Project Hail Mary is is still uh it has it is incredibly entertaining, um, but it's also about it's about that that same kind of thing. I mean it has something it has something on its mind. And I think that that that it helps to have something on your mind when you're writing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or a lot on your mind. You know, and it especially for Gibson, who is uh as much of a poet as he is a a classically literary writer? I I find his prose gorgeous. Yeah, it is. It's great, great stuff. And how would you characterize your style? Are you more minimalist? Uh do you like to indulge? What what's what's the Elliot Blake?
SPEAKER_01It's evolving, uh probably, hopefully, because I'd like to do more of this kind of writing. And so, but I I I I think um it is somewhere between it's not maximalist, I'll tell you that. It's it's it's I I try and be a little restrained. You know, the prose is is direct and and not not flowery. Um you know, I I want to be, I like, I think that probably comes from my time working, you know, with with in scripted formats, is that I I like to be direct in the uh in the in the ideas so that you know that it that it's clear. I'm not I'm not trying to hide anything from anybody. Um and uh so yeah, and that's and and and to infuse it with some humor also. I I I mean, you know, the story is serious, but I think you know our lives are serious, but they're also funny, too. Even you know, and and that depending on the day, it's either, you know, there's they can be darkly funny or just stupid funny or whatever. And and I don't I don't like to sh I don't shy away from from the humor. Um there's some there's some stuff in here that I think you know that is meant to make you smile or laugh uh or somewhere in between.
SPEAKER_00That fits the multi-genre approach. Sounds like you've got military sci-fi, you've got some romanticy, you've got you know the alien invasion, you've got different styles here that coexist together, which is music to my ears, because I think one issue that plagues a lot of writing these days, and especially science fiction and fantasy, is just sticking to a singular genre in a way that's repetitive, predictable, and boxed in. We want we want we want some innovation, we want something that's a little bit fresh. How is your novel different? What kind of ground are you covering that others haven't?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I think so too. And I and I I also feel like our our lives, you know, I I'm from primarily interested in stories about people, and and um and regardless of what that genre is that you're using to explore those lives. And our lives aren't one thing. And um, you know, and humanity is not one thing, and stories are not one thing either. I mean, I I think, yeah, I I think reading, like kind of growing up and reading widely, um, even though I have my my favorite genres and and sci-fi is right at right there at the top, um, is you see how these different stories have common, or you know, they these different genres have commonalities to them, and how you can use you can use tropes from different genres within, you know, you can mix and match and still be true to you know whatever your main genre is that you're writing in. So like if you're you could write a sci-fi detective story, and that could be be as noirish as as you know a Raymond Chandler novel, but it's but it has all the trappings of of a of a of science fiction. And um, and you can use that you can use that one genre to explore uh what you might explore in sci-fi through a whole other a whole other means of of I don't know, exploration, I guess. Um so I I think that I think that genre mixing, I don't know, for me it feels very natural and uh and there's I don't know, there's no reason not to do it. Um it's I think it just lends more texture.
SPEAKER_00I agree wholeheartedly. The not to do it is the marketing aspect. People like to know what they're getting, yeah. And a lot of folks get confused when you do shift gears, and then how you present the story can be an issue as well, which is which aspect do you highlight? Do you segment based on the audience you want to engage, or do you have one overarching story line that you want to feature and highlight? I mean, it depends. If you've got a limited run here, so you've got 500 copies and you're ready to go. You're launching September 1st, is that right? That's right. We're recording uh early in August. And how's how's that planning for you? Are you are you gonna are you gonna go to a Comic Con? Are you gonna you're doing this podcast, so that's part of it. I'm gonna I'm gonna help spread the word. We can put links in the description. Fantastic. What's your what's your media plan like as an indie author with this Swedish press?
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, uh fortunately, um uh my publisher has engaged a PR firm which has helped me help land me here. Um, and on uh several other uh other podcasts. I've been I've been doing interviews uh since uh June, um, and uh which is uh uh kind of amazing to me. There are a few people who just jumped right on it and they're like, yeah, let's go. Um and so I was doing interviews before I had the books in my hand. Um and uh so I've been doing that and sort of slowly trying to build word that way. And um I I don't know that I I suppose it depends on whether I'll do a Comic-Con or not. I've I've I've been to Comic-Con. I've been like to San Diego Comic-Con, I don't know, probably 15 times uh over the years. I I the last time I went, it was uh when um Audible was launching first season of Moriarty and uh and they put uh the show on the side of the uh the trains that the the uh the trains that move through uh San Diego and I did all sorts of really cool marketing stuff. Um and so I I like to go to Comic-Con when um I have something to plug. Um and uh and but I've never been a seller. I've never had a uh uh I've never really done a booth. Um and so actually that's not entirely true. I did when I worked for Amazon Studios early on in its in first incarnation uh in 2012, we made a comic book out of uh one of the the uh the scripts that we were had in early development that never went anywhere. And uh, but we made a comic book out of it and printed up, I don't know, a coup a few thousand copies, and went to Baltimore Comic Con uh uh and uh man a booth and gave them away. Um and that was pretty neat. Um but and I I don't so but what I'm gonna do for this book is um we have a local uh bookstore here in in Pasadena uh called Romans, which is one of the best uh bookstores in in uh independent bookstores in in the LA area and probably in Southern California. And um so uh we're they have a program, a local author program, and so we signed up for that. Uh and uh I'll probably do a uh reading uh at a at a uh store um that's uh also here in the area uh uh that does a lot of community events and and uh sell a few hopefully sell a few copies there. Um and uh I put out uh an unboxing video last week on my Instagram uh and on LinkedIn, and that seems to have done well and and uh sent people to pre-order the book. Um and then this morning, uh what's today? Today's August 4th, uh, as we're recording this. So this morning I put on my Instagram, and I I may come to regret this. I I made an ASMR video uh of unwrapping uh my uh first edition copy uh of the book, number one of 500. Um and I did that at my daughter's urging. My Gen Z daughter said, Dad, you should make a that cloth cover will sound great. She likes those ASMR videos, and I've never watched one. Uh and she said, You should do it. So I just so I made one, and it's it's it's silly. I I I just I but it but it felt like a fun thing to do. And I feel like, you know, anything that will drive people to uh the Lil Factory website to pre-order, um, and and uh you could pre-order at uh Lilfact.com, L-I-L-F-A-C.com.
SPEAKER_00What what's the what's the retail price at being a boutique y book like this?
SPEAKER_01Um it's 20 euros, uh, which I think it translates right now. It's like we're gonna sell it for 22 uh uh dollars US. Uh so like at Romans it'll be 22 bucks.
SPEAKER_00So that's reasonable.
SPEAKER_01I think so, especially for for something that's so you know well printed. And it's just such a nice it's just such a nice package. I'm gonna show it off again.
SPEAKER_00So um yeah on the YouTube video, I'll do overlays.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00So it'll be it'll be a time jump. Send me more images and I'll put them in there, which will be appearing as I speak right now.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, I'll I'll I'll do that.
SPEAKER_00We'll do a time paradox here in YouTube.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic.
SPEAKER_00That's that's great. So you got the plan, you got the book. And you mentioned that originally the idea was a comic book, right? And you're an animator by trade.
SPEAKER_01Well, an animation producer, yeah. I can't draw to save my life, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're you're in the biz. Yes. So the next logical repurposing would be a graphic novel of the story or a comic book or or hustling it on the street. Are you already thinking thinking about that in terms of evolving the story and jumping modealities?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have uh an audio version of it that I've worked out in my head that I know how to that I know how I want to approach that. Um have to figure out how the the the financing for it, but that's a fairly easy uh that's a fairly easy um the glide path there is easy because I've I've made three seasons now of uh of a big audible original and um and so uh which is which is way more complex, I think, uh, than um a straight up audiobook. And I so I kind of would like to make a uh sort of a hybrid audiobook uh casted edition. So where where it's we still have the narration um and uh you know read by narrator, but then I also would like to have some actors kind of playing some of the roles. So um so I've I've got a hybrid idea for that in my head. But I'm also I also started working on a uh uh screen adaptation uh already because um I it just jumped into my head how to do it uh as a as an adult uh kind of adult-oriented animated feature. Um and so I I thought, well, it's a personal story to me. It's something that I would like to do. I don't necessarily want somebody else to take a crack at it, so I might as well I might I might as well do it myself. Uh and I and I so I'm writing it with it with uh animation in mind, writing it for myself to to uh direct or at the very least co-direct uh with a with a uh with an animation director. Um and uh and so we'll we'll see what happens. It's been interesting going back into it uh because you know I had written it for a visual one visual medium and then rewrote it uh several times as a as a piece of prose fiction. Uh and so going from you know a visual media to a very interior kind of media, kind of living inside the heads of the characters, and now trying to figure out how to do it again uh in a in a visual way and still carry those ideas that are that the the characters are kicking around in their heads and how to how to bring that forth on the screen uh in a screen adaptation. And so it's a real it's a real interesting uh it's a real interesting challenge.
SPEAKER_00We're all in the singularity now, it seems. It started out with political chaos, cultural rivalries, tribalism, polarization. Now we've got AI, the bot slop. We've got Hollywood that's writhing and confused and doesn't quite know what to do with itself. We've got these oligarchies becoming monopolies and media. It's it's a crazy chaotic time. And as an insider who's done different kinds of stuff, and now as a writer, how does it feel putting something out there that's yours, that's your story in this chaotic, tumultuous weltering of media and content and AI and Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh it it I I mean it feels good. I mean it it it because I pretty much I mean this is like the story came out the way I wanted it to come out and I had and I you know even working with other people to get it to into shape for publishing, it's my story, and it's and I got it out there, and I didn't really have to I mean, other than saying to the publisher, you know, would you like to publish this? I didn't really have to ask for permission to do it. And and I think I was gonna, once I started, I was gonna figure out how to do it anyway. I definitely think it came out better for the experience that I had uh doing it and working with Lil Factory. Um, there's no question about that in my mind. I I think it would be a different story and probably not as good if uh uh without their input. Um but it's my it but it came out the way I wanted it to come out, and um, and it's rare to have something uh you know that where you where you were the really the you're the driving force behind it and you put it out. Certainly it feels that way having working it worked in Hollywood for as long as I have. Um, you know, and I I've been lucky. I I think I've got you know I have an Apple TV kids show, uh animated kids show called The Sisters Grimm, um, and that that came out last October, and um, you know, we're hoping to make more of that. And uh, you know, I have that the Audible show, and and so I have some things that I can that I can point to and say, ah, okay, yes, I've I've I've made that or helped make that. And I've been really lucky, I think, in the people that I've gotten to work with, uh that they we've all like I've gotten great, I've had great collaborators, even at the streamers and the you know, like on the platforms, like those, the people that we've all pulled in the same direction in terms of what it was we were trying to make and uh and and then getting to make it. And um, you know, nobody I I I've just been really I've been incredibly fortunate in that regard. And I had a pretty good run there where during the uh time of peak TV of of uh selling shows. Uh and you know, to have two things come out, uh, and they get to then certainly like for with the Audible show, with Moriarty, they get to make three seasons of it. You know, that's a that's a really uh in this day and age, it's a lucky thing. Now I'm in a position where I still am uh developing projects to take out uh and hopefully to sell to a movie studio or a streaming platform. And uh and even though it's hard, I and harder probably now than it ever has been to get anything made just because of the constant level of consolidation and and um you know people worry being worried about their jobs and uh and and being risk averse more so now than in any time I think that I've ever experienced. But I I maintain an irrational optimism uh that something's gonna work out. And but then I'm also trying to figure out, okay, well, how do I do things that uh bring me some level of satisfaction uh that don't require anybody else's you know thumbs up or thumbs down, you know, like where I can just do it. And so um, so while I'm so at the same time, I'm developing uh you know things for Hollywood, as it were. I also have another writing project that I'm doing with a uh a collaborator with a writing partner that actually is it is kind of an epistolary uh sort of back and forth kind of storytelling, where we together we figured out what the setup was, uh, and I'm writing one side of it, she's writing the other side of it. And um, but we don't know what each other is writing until we receive it and then write in response to that. And that's a really fun project. And we we we sent it out to uh uh to a company that I that I know and um I'm not gonna mention them right now just because I don't want to put them on blast or anything, but they you know I'm hoping that they will take some interest in it because I think we could work with them uh in doing an audio version of it like right from the start. But if not, I think if that doesn't work out, I think that we're just gonna do a Patreon or something and just put it out and just see if we can get some subscribers uh because there's no reason not to. I mean, it the it's a very low bandwidth um uh uh opportunity. It doesn't cost anything other than time for us to write it. And at the end of the writing process, all right, well, maybe we'll have a book. I mean, and if that's what it turns into, that's what it turns into. I I you know I can I can think of I can think of a lot worse things. And then I I so I'm doing those things. I'm thinking about the screen adaptation of Into the Great. I have another animated project, a personal project that I'm gonna write uh when I'm done with the screen adaptation. Um and I I'm trying to just do I'm I'm trying to do the things that uh are interesting to me and that I'm passionate about. Um and you know, and always on the lookout for other, you know, for for TV opportunities because when you can get them to go, they they they provide uh uh uh they provided a living. Um and uh and I think ultimately that's the big goal is to be able to make a living being a creative person. Um and that's also the challenge.
SPEAKER_00Amen. All that. How do you maintain your independence, your creative license, and at the same time pay the mortgage? And sounds like you've done a pretty good balancing act between being the industry guy, getting shows out, the audiobook that's or the audio series now is third season, right? You got different shows, you got you got your own IP, and and at the same time, I love your attitude, which is DIY. Which is you just flaborate with somebody and you create content, you don't have the overlords breathing down your neck, you don't have a developmental editor pissing all over your draft, and you just you just do it. And I like the let's see what happens approach because there's nothing worse for the creative process than to begin with some goal that ostensibly has nothing to do with the story itself. So that's a great, great way to go.
SPEAKER_01It it's the wild west right now, and I kind of feel like there's there's a hundred different ways to do something. Uh, and I think you gotta find the the right way for you and the right way that the thing that feels best for your story. But I think for me, like the motivating thing is how can I make something without having to ask anybody for permission uh to do it. Like that's that's that's the motivating thing.
SPEAKER_00That's the thing. You don't ask for permission, you can apologize later. Yeah, and nobody nobody knows nothing. It goes back to William Goldman's comment. The uh the the the screenwriter is archetypal, iconic Hollywood book. You take the uh the bromo with him, the Pepto Bismol every time he flew into LA because he just had indigestion because the city's so shitty. And uh and then he just gulp it down and go for it with this notion that just throw shit against the wall, too, because nobody really knows what's gonna be the next hit. Even if you're what came before, yeah, make another remake of the remake of the sequel right on. But but if you're really a creative person and you got that that chutzpah, then just do it. And now the technology is totally DIY. Get an app, get a subscription, get a mic, get a keyboard, and just do it and see what happens.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, totally. I mean, and look, and I know that there's there's people out there that are very excited about the AI stuff and the the gener the gen generative AI stuff. And I I I will say that that's not for me. Uh, and I don't, you know, I I I I there's some there are some limits to for for me personally, to what I'm willing to, you know, what I'm willing to do. And and I think part of that is that having worked on crews and with crews and with other people, I think the thing that I've I've found, uh, especially working in animation, it's a really collaborative business. And um you don't make a show, you don't make a you don't make a show by yourself or a movie by yourself. And um and if you're I I've been lucky in that I've not just with the executives that I've been able to work with, but with the creative people that I've been able to work with over the years. And and I've learned, you know, from them that from the very best ones is that they're open to ideas and then regardless of where those ideas come from, and they listen. And you know, that doesn't mean that they're not steering the ship, you know, or or you know, like that those directors aren't directing, they they are absolutely directing and they're guiding and they're making those decisions, but they don't want to cut themselves off from uh from those ideas. And so, like when you're making uh an animated show, one of the most important uh parts of the process is the storyboarding process. And when you're storyboarding a show, you know, you've you've got a script and you're the writer or the producer, and you you've read the script and you've got a version of it that's in your head. And then somebody takes it, or storyboard artists take it and they start to draw, and they come up with something that you wouldn't have come up with. And certainly for me, it's frequently better. You know, like whatever the visual is, whatever I had in my mind, it's like, oh, this makes much more, much more sense. This is way more exciting, this is more dynamic. And and sometimes they'll they'll they'll identify stuff that was like, oh, you know, like, oh, there's this story, there's a problem with the story here, and that you just don't see until you start to visualize it. And the reason that it gets pointed out is because there's another creative mind that's tackling it. And the same is true when when you're recording voiceover, is that you've you you know you the actors take over. And you know, and I'm a director. Like I've I've directed, I've I've been very lucky also, again, with the people that I've gotten to direct. I got to direct Helen Miran. And on this last season of Moriarty, I got to direct Sir Ben Kingsley, which is crazy to me. Those are like I I like that if you had told me I was gonna get to do that at any point in my life, I would have said, no way. And but the the great thing is is that they come and they bring their experience and they bring their ideas and to and and they then they bring those characters to life. And in a way that you and they say those lines in a way that maybe you didn't think of. And it's gonna be better. You don't want to cut yourself off from those ideas. And I think that uh a lot of things that like a lot of uh what's happening with the AI stuff uh uh is uh about uh isolating us. It's like, hey, you don't need anybody to make a movie. Look what you can do now with just with a few prompts. You don't need anybody to make a game, you can just do it now with a few prompts. Or you don't need uh you don't need you don't even need to write your novel. It can write it for you. And then you can just you can just tweak it and make it yours. And all those things miss the point. And the point is uh well, there's a lot of points, but the biggest point for me is is that every time you take somebody out of the process, every time you take a collaborator out of the process, you're losing out on a chance for serendipity, right? Because you don't know where that great idea is going to come from. And and then the other, and then the other big point is that the journey is the the process like the the process is the point. It's like you figure out your story by working on it, by doing it yourself, and by doing all these things with other people. You know, I look at I look at the Odyssey of Chris Nolan's The Odyssey with that, which I think was an astonishing piece of work. And that's a that that's a movie made. I mean, yeah, there's some digital effects in there and everything, but that's a movie made with a with people and and with practical effects and sets built and shot on location and and in the water, and it's it it and and it's amazing. And and the reason to do it that way is and to not just do it all on a computer, is because you don't know what you're gonna get. Like you and and that's the magic. It's the magic is in the people. And so that's why I don't that's why I don't that was a that was a rant and uh about why I don't why I'm really cautious about this stuff. It's like I don't think that uh I I there might be a role for it. And I I've know that there are people like certainly in the animation business that are looking for ways to kind of harness the power of AI, not to not to do the work for you, but to help assist. And I that's a different kind of story, you know, that's a different kind of use case. And but I think the AI bros have it all wrong.
SPEAKER_00Jack White of the White Stripes said that ease of use is the bane of the creative spirit. So the easier it is, the harder it is for your your true guts and blood to spill out on the page and into the into the story. That's where the passion and humanity lie. So if you make it too easy and you no longer collaborate, then it's then it's just you're prompt jocking something that's not even you anymore. So I agree. I think AI does have its uses for brainstorming and optimizing some of the ostensible front work of the production and processes. But the story and the heart and the feel has to come from you, and you need to sweat it out, and you need to collaborate, not with other bots, but ultimately with other humans. And I and I I love that sensibility. And once again, from the beginning of this conversation, we were talking about balance, finding a balance between different genres, between your personal life, and between what's coming to life on the page, finding a balance between your industry work and then being an independent creator. And now you're talking about balance between using the tools and tech, but not losing your own heart and soul in the process. And I think that that leads to a happy life and a happy creator if you could uh just marshal all these forces and do it without being disingenuous and at the same time not going broke.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I mean that's that's both the the the trick and the uh and the uh uh the goal, I guess.
SPEAKER_00I'm just curious what your take is on the entertainment industry. Because again, going back to the beginning of the conversation, you're you're you feel as if we're living through uh another timeline here. We had a major branching in the multiverse, and and here we are. I still don't feel the same way when I when I look at what's coming out of the industry. We we grew up, we we also started this conversation talking about Star Trek and Star Wars, these icons and classics of the genre. What happened? Star Wars prequels and then sequels, I don't know what's worse. Uh Lucas destroying his own franchise and then Disney doing it for him and and the new Star Trek and the Mandalorian Grogu show. I mean not to be too critical, but most of it is just garbage and the public feels the same way. We had an aberration just this weekend with the new Spider-Man movie, which uh did incredibly well. So it's an indicator that the public is hungry for science fiction and fantasy. If you look at the top 100 grossing films of all time, I think 85-90% are science fiction and fantasy. They they sell. People have a hunger for this stuff. It triggers their Jungian archetypes. Yeah. But I think I think Hollywood's been screwing it up. And I and I think that they've put message over story, they've had their own agenda, and they've misunderstood their own audiences and their own IP.
SPEAKER_01I I don't totally disagree with that. I I I don't know necessarily about you know messages and agenda, because I think inherently the the Hollywood is an incredibly conservative business. And I think you you've got you've got maybe you've got, you know, and I mean conservative in in like they want to make money, not conservative in a political sense. It's like they're conservative about, you know, that's where the risk aversion comes in. It's like they're they've become really averse to doing anything new, uh, and to uh to doing anything um that where there isn't that doesn't feel like a short bet. And um unless you're unless you're somebody like Chris Christopher Nolan. I mean, it's like you know, like because he he's he's become a brand unto himself. But you know, but the uh but yeah, I mean a lot of uh a lot of the Star Wars stuff feels like fan servicing. Um and uh I think the last uh the last Star Wars movie, like the that in the the that JJ Abrams directed, um felt a lot like uh a reaction to um uh The Last Jedi, and uh which I thought was really good and it had something new to say about you know within the genre. And I think you know, you look at something like Andor, which I think is a a brilliant piece of work, but it again, but and and but part of the reason for that is because it's about something. And um and I think a lot of these stories are, you know, I think sometimes they forget that it needs to be about something. And I'm not a huge I was not a huge fan of the Mandalorian. Uh you know, I do think that it's not for lack of trying. I certainly believe that the the the efforts of all the people that work on something like that, and even you know the director and everything, I think that they intend to do something that is really well, and that the reason that it doesn't connect is that it may be just that it come that it it's not something that well, there's a couple of reasons. One is not about something that people care about. Um, it may be that, you know, because I think that when you're making something, and it certainly, you know, is that you can get, you know, the groupthink is something that can happen. And you can convince yourself, or a group of people can convince themselves that what they're doing is going to really resonate with people because it resonates with them. And then you you release it and it's a dud. You know, but it's not for not for lack of effort. And and it's just maybe a misread. I think the thing with the studios is that the like look at the Marvel movies. Uh, you know, those things felt really special and really cool uh all the way through Endgame. And then they started making all the Marvel TV shows, and then it became they oversaturated, and then they pulled back, and there hasn't been, I just was reading about Spider-Man and its success this morning, and it's like, well, there hasn't been uh a Spider, like the last installment of the Tom Holland Spider-Man uh was five years ago, which isn't hard to believe. It doesn't feel like it was five years ago. Um, but it came out five years ago, and that there's something to the idea of uh of of scarcity and not overdoing it. And I think certainly a lot of this stuff, they've just overdone it. Um I think you look at at a movie like Project Hail Mary, um, and its great success is because it felt new and different. And um, but it was in a genre that people feel that genre that people like and understand and feel comfortable with, but it just took a new but it was a new story. And there's and it was also executed at a really high level. I mean, I think that that's the other, that's the other thing. I think sometimes, you know, things just don't come out, despite everybody's best efforts, uh, things don't come out as well as they as you might hope. And uh and I think people, even if they don't understand why they don't like something, uh there's some there's a there's a vibe to it that is you know that they're responding to, saying, oh, this feels a little bit off, and I don't know why, but yeah, it's just that what it's just that it doesn't land. And um it's a it's a hard business. And I think that you want you want companies, you want these big studios to learn something uh from uh you know from the success of of a project Hail Mary, and learn even learn something from the success of Spider Man. Which I I haven't seen yet. I intend to. But that that, you know, like Spider-Man, I would say you gotta you gotta execute at a high level and don't don't do it too often. And make sure it's special. Yeah, and and I think that that's something that kind of gets lost because these companies, it's like they gotta they they spend us so much money on making these things and they gotta figure out how to make it back. And then they make more and it becomes this this flywheel uh that it's hard to keep going. And um, and then the the perceived quality suffers. Uh you know, part of it is maybe the speed with which they have to make stuff in order to make the money back, and some of it is just like, you know, kind of convincing themselves that they've you know that that it's ready when it's not. But you don't know. I mean, that's again, that goes back to the William Goldner thing. Nobody knows anything.
SPEAKER_00Well, you are practicing scarcity, you've got 500 special editions from the Swedish publisher, yeah. And and you are new to the game, so uh that should give you some creds and some advantage. Good luck with the launch, September 1st for Into the Great. Thank you very much. Blake, it was a real joy chit-chatting with you about our favorite genre. Bringing up our uh our teacher. What what's her name again? It was Mrs. Hugelmeyer. Hugelmeyer, not Hugelmeyer, Mrs. Hugelmeyer. If you're still with us, and the bots scrape the transcript of this podcast and alerts you to it. We salute you. Absolutely. So I'll have links in the description below to get your book. I understand it's you can purchase from the publisher directly. Do you have your own website that it's gonna be available from too?
SPEAKER_01Uh I do have my own website. We haven't quite figured out whether or not I'm gonna be selling any copies through there. I think right now go through, I would say go through the publisher. But yeah, but if you do want, if you if you liked anything that I had to say and curious about my uh you know, want to know more, uh, go to elliotblake.com. Uh and all my links to my socials are there. And um you can sign up for updates uh at Elliot Blake.com too. I don't update at that.
SPEAKER_00All right, you got your own CRM program. So there you go.
SPEAKER_01It's not uh I don't and I don't I I will not spam you. Uh so um yeah, if you if you if you if you need a daily dose of me and my uh my uh politics or my disappointment about baseball, uh you know, you can find follow me on Blue Sky. Uh you know, put pictures of my dog on the on my Instagram. But yeah, all that stuff is uh at elliablake.com.
SPEAKER_00All right. We're gonna have that URL in the description. Uh the Lil Factory A B. I think I got that right. Yeah. Yeah. The exclusive Swedish publisher that's got you cranked out. Uh we all wish you the best in your debut. Keep it cranking and keep the uh DIY attitude, which is uh screw it. I'm just gonna make it happen and let's see what happens. That's the best attitude ever. Great talking to you, getting to know Elliot, and uh maybe six months a year. We can bring you back and see how things are faring and uh talk about your uh Netflix mini series. Sounds great. Yeah, thanks so much. Thanks, Smokey Like, comment, share, science fiction and fantasy podcast on Smokey Smiths.
