Episode 4: Paths of Glory

This week, The Society watches Paths of Glory. The Three Amigos admire Kubrickian film design, crack wise about the French, and analyze the effectiveness of war films.

We're Collin, Justin, and Zane, three friends who believe that talking about films can and should be accessible to everyone, and that thoughtful analysis doesn’t have to come exclusively from professional critics and film school grads. Welcome to our not-so-secret secret club: the Post-Credits Society.

In the near future, we'll incorporate your reviews and predictions into each episode, so jump right in! Who knows? We might feature your take on the show! Next time we'll be watching Muriel’s Wedding, so tune in and we'll see you then!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Yeah, there there is an Australian phrase that's like, I came here to drink and fuck spiders and I'm all out of spiders or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

Wouldn't it be other way around? Oh god. Wait, other way around, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 0:19

I would think it would be a joke phrase about like I'm here to and I'm all out of and I'm all out of liquor or something. But no, I guess it's just more the intense drink.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

They've already fucked all the spiders.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

Let's get this thing going.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Yeah, let's just That was the right one. Now we can now we can do this. All right. A listener-powered movie club where your takes, your predictions, and your favorites help shape the conversation. Each week we pick a film to watch, reflect on what works and what doesn't, and what we took away from it. Think of it like a book club but for movies, with our whole Letterboxd community as part of the discussion. We believe that talking about films can and should be accessible to everyone, and that thoughtful analysis doesn't have to come exclusively from professional critics or film school grads. If you're looking for a place to discuss movies, refine your tastes, engage in different viewpoints, or just listen to some friends yapping, you have found a home here at The Society. I am Zane, and I still don't have a nickname, but we're working on it. We're workshopping. I'm just gonna put my faith in the letterbox community at this point to give me a nickname.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

And then it's a me, Justin Gulliametti. This week we're going by the moniker Dusty Fireball. And uh we'll just see if that sticks. I feel like it might be a temporary nickname.

SPEAKER_07 2:44

Well, per Zane, last week you can't just give yourself a nickname, otherwise it's pretty situation.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

I'm I'm gonna give I'm gonna give Justin Dusty Fireball as a nickname because that's that was uh you know, Justin was cast in Magic Mike 2, and that was his that was his stripper name, and they but they cut all of his scenes out because of a stupid like Matthew he pissed off Matthew McConaughey or something.

SPEAKER_07 3:11

And then I'm calling what were my nicknames again? I didn't really know. The connoisseur of Kitsch, I believe. Kitsch is shit, yep, you're right. And then the the Vibe Meister.

SPEAKER_05 3:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07 3:23

We got some strong considerations there. Zayn, we really just need to get you covered. Yeah. So how this works is we select a film to watch and we ask the society to predict what Zane, Justin, and I thought about the movie. Then we will share some of our favorite listener predictions before diving into discussion.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

After some of our trademark brilliant highbrow banter, we'll shine a society spotlight on some of our favorite letterbox reviews and social media comments from our listeners before wrapping up with our final verdicts and announcing the next film suggested by you, the Society.

SPEAKER_07 3:56

Today we are talking about Stanley Kubrick's Paths of Glory, the 1957 film starring Kirk Douglas, Ralph Meeker, Adolf Minju, and George McCready.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Instead of listener predictions, we are gonna start this episode with our personal predictions of what our co-hosts thought about this movie.

SPEAKER_05 4:19

I think Khan liked it. I think we all liked it. Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

When I say liked it, I'm gonna predict, I'm gonna make a little I'm gonna little little I think this will be something that we all vote for canonization with regard to its importance, rather than perhaps our like aesthetic enjoyment of it. There's my there's my specific breakdown of what I think we're gonna say.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Perfect.

SPEAKER_07 4:53

Giving us ammo for our predictions of Justin's take. Zayn, I'll have you go next.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Okay, okay. I think Justin liked the aesthetic of the movie more than the content itself. But I think he did fall on the side of liking it more than disliking it. I think Colin liked both the aesthetics of the movie and the content that is presented here by a young Stanley Kubrick, so I'm going to say that Colin liked it more than Justin, but they both had a good time.

SPEAKER_07 5:32

Just to harp on your young Stanley Kubrick thing, 28 years old, if I'm not mistaken. That's crazy. Younger than all of us. Yeah, imagine. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07 5:43

Alright. Yeah, I think I definitely like this film the most out of all of us. Especially after last week's movies got good in 1970, take. Um, yeah, that really uh illuminated some things for me. Um I will I will second Justin. I think probably everybody appreciated the the message of the film. The uh method of the film, I think, was probably appreciated more by probably Justin, and I think Justin's gonna have some performance critiques to s at least. Zane will probably have those too, and that's my take. Okay, what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

I think it's time to move on to the briefest of summaries, and that's all you, big dog.

SPEAKER_07 6:30

Alright, here we go. Perfect. Okay, so uh Paths of Glory is is Stanley Kubrick's 1957 World War One film. Um it like I said before, it stars Kirk Douglas as Colonel Dax, who is a French officer kind of stuck between uh his men and the egos of the generals above him. At the very beginning of the film, uh two high-ranking officers, General Roulard and General Moreau, decide to order an attack on a German position called the Ant Hill. Uh side note, in the original source material here, this is based on a true actual event, but based on the source material of the Paths of Glory book, it was the anthill was at named the the pimple, and I think it was an improvement to rename it the anthill in this film.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:40

Side note over. So the this uh this movement on the anthill, everyone kind of knows it's basically suicide. But uh General Moreau agrees because he's uh kind of promised a promotion if this succeeds. So Dax, Douglas's character, who's commanding the regiment, he tries to do his best for his men, even though he knows the plan is ill-fated. Uh and when the attack eventually comes, not too long later, it is a disaster. And the bear the men barely make it out of the trenches before they're mowed down by machine gun fire, and some about a third of the men actually refuse to leave their positions because it is an impossible mission. So Moreau loses his mind and orders his artillery to fire on his own soldiers for not advancing, and this order isn't carried out because the the artillery officer needs a written command from the general, but it shows kind of how far gone the Moreau has is at this point. So after this failure on the ant hill, the generals need someone to blame, so they decide to court-martial three random soldiers for cowardice. Not because they did anything wrong, but to set an example. And Dax, who was a lawyer before the war, volunteers to defend them. But the trial is essentially a joke with no due process, and there's no evidence, there's no witnesses, and the verdict is the three were sentenced to death, and then they were executed. And afterward, Dax confronts the generals who treated the whole thing kind of like a political inconvenience, and one even tries to promote Dax for how he handled it, thinking he'll that's been his goal the entire time, but he refuses, disgusted by, you know, the hypocrisy of it all. And the movie ends in this kind of emotional moment that we will talk about later, with the captured German girl singing in a tavern, right before Dax is notified that his men need to return to fighting. And that is not the briefest of summaries, but it was a summary.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

I think it's more brief than my ramblings on Tim Burton's Batman returns. So got a good B plus there, Colin.

SPEAKER_07 10:05

Oh, thanks, thanks. Honestly, yeah, B's have been what I've been going for my entire life, so I appreciate the plus.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Can I can I lead with first impressions?

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Who is the film critic? Is it is it is it is it Truffaut who f who has the the line about like it being impossible to make an anti-war film? That's sort of a that's sort of a a Colin-esque flex.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

I believe that is yeah, okay, okay. I'm that that is just a line that I've heard floated out. Every time every time I see or read something about a war film, I feel like I see that line referenced about it being impossible to craft an anti-war film. I'm not sure if I agree with that. This seems like a pretty good counterexample of of how it is in fact possible to do so. And I think I think the argument he offers is mostly that just like action is cool, and including like any sort of combat scene sort of ends up being promotional against itself. Again, I'm not sure I agree with that totally either, because I've seen plenty of horrific war scenes, which may captivate you, but I'm not sure that that's the same as being as as inspiring or being an advocate for. But in any case, this film clearly does enough to hammer home the message that this is a pretty monstrous activity with few redeeming qualities, if any. And yeah, that I guess that that was that was my first thought.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

I think it's interesting that you say that because I agree to a certain extent, but I also see what Truffaut is saying. It's really hard not to make somebody look like a badass when they're being heroic in any way, and when you portray heroism, there's just there's bound to be people out there who miss the message. And I think that that certainly could be the case for people who watch this movie and don't understand its its message, especially because one of my notes that I have here is in that in the one actual combat scene we get in this movie, Kirk Douglas just looks like a total badass.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

God, he's so cool, and you're just like, Yeah, hell yeah. Get go get him, Kirk.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

I did you find even his introduction, and he's doing like the slowness washing his face, shirtless.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I know. Yeah. He's a real babe. Yeah. He is, yeah, he's so attractive. He's not attractive to me because I know stories about his personal life. Anybody anybody know anything about Kirk Douglas? Supposedly like just a serial womanizer, and that in and of itself is not necessarily a I mean, you know, it's not great, but I've also Allegedly, allegedly, he maybe assaulted Natalie Wood when she was underage. So that's like a whole side plot about Kirk Douglas. That was also just kind of I mean, it's still a problem in Hollywood today, but it was certainly an issue in the fifties and sixties. So, not to excuse Kirk Douglas, but i he was not the only person being a predatory asshole at that time.

SPEAKER_07 13:30

Well, I'm glad you didn't end your critique at the serial womanizer because y we both love Justin too.

SPEAKER_06 13:36

And I mean Yeah Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_07 13:38

So, like, just being a serial womanizer, like, with we have to give some grace there.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

This is a public service announcement. Have you told the womanizer in your life that you love them today? Oh boy. As for my other first impressions of the movie, I had not seen this film before. Really love Stanley Kubrick's movies, so I was excited to check this one off the list, and I had a great time. This movie is very well shot. You can see glimpses of the genius of of Old Stan here, and several really good acting performances as well. I'm not gonna say everybody was batting a thousand, but certainly Kirk Douglas does a really great job. I feel like he is acting in a slightly different movie than everybody else, but it works because he's the main character, so it doesn't really matter, I think. Yeah, had a good time.

SPEAKER_07 14:38

My first impression was years ago. I actually think this was my first Kubrick film.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Really?

SPEAKER_07 14:45

I think so. I I can't I'm not positive that that's the case, but I I say that because it ties in with what I'm gonna say next, is I didn't have hardly any expectations going in. So I didn't know what kind of film this was. When I went in there there are things that happen in this film that subvert expectations in the vein of either realism or cynicism or both. And as I'm going through this film, there's multiple moments where I'm like, okay, things are gonna turn out okay. And the in each time they don't. And uh that really spoke to me. I think it emphasizes the message of the film. But my first impression was of almost despondence, but also like a passion for the message because it was shown in such a uh stark way as well. And I I think so I I recently watched The Player, which is I don't even know what year it is. It's it's kind of a satire about Hollywood sort of, and in that film uh there's a whole theme of kind of Hollywoodizing films in order to have commercial success. This film does not do that at all. Like it and I I actually just read something that Kubrick was tempted to do that toward the end of the process to create this happy ending, and Kirk Douglas was like, no, this is an important film to make for this message because it's real and it's not meant for commercial success. It might make five cents, but it's as important. So the very fact that it didn't do that really spoke to me that we were left with this unhappiness at the end that lets itself sit. So that was my first take, and every time I've watched it afterward, I get the same thing. Okay, so let's talk about things that worked here. Justin, go.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

I was gonna say there were lots of really cool tracking shots, which are obviously a Kubrick stable. Oh yeah. At least at least in this one, they're they're not done in a way that like draws one's attention to the fact that this is a really cool camera trick. I at least in my experience watching it, it's just that you're seeing like a world unravel before your eyes. Which here's what I'll say, uh for especially talking about a movie pre-1970s, anything you can do to ground you more in reality is unnecessary. Because so much of the rest of it is like what word am I looking for here? Performative. And that's just the nature, that's the nature of like the medium of film pre-whatever your date is. So anything that that that can that can make you feel like what you're watching is actually happening is extremely important, and especially to this movie with its message, which is reflecting, again, real events, as we talked about. And even if it weren't real events, is definitely reflecting the reality of the horrors. Like it would be representative of something real, even if it it wasn't recounting an actual historical event.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Yes, I totally agree with you. I think another word you might have been looking for is artificial, because there's just a lot of of older films before we had the technology really or the expense budget to film things on location. So a lot of things take place on sound sets, etc. This very easily could have been a movie under the guiding hand of a different director that was shot in Los Angeles, like completely detached from any actual location. But this movie looks really great, and it's and it is certainly because of what you mentioned. Like I think it's super important that everything takes place in a setting that looks realistic. Like you really feel like that's a this is a battlefield that I'm looking at. The palace scenes look really great. I totally agree. I think another thing that works here, I think the glimpses of Kubrick's like film philosophy of portraying inner struggles through, in this case, Kirk Douglas, works really well. He's a really great choice to lead this movie. Kirk Douglas is a very successful leading man in this movie, I think. And it doesn't really work if you don't have somebody who gets what this movie is about, and you can tell that Kirk Douglas is on the exact same page as the director throughout the whole thing.

SPEAKER_07 19:48

Yeah, I will echo definitely the Kirk Douglas love. I think he his perspective is is invaluable to this and his performance. You mentioned that he's in it in parts, it seems like he is acting in another movie than everybody else. And I I think that is probably intentional because he is really the only character uh in this film that is caught in the middle between his his men, his soldiers, and the the uh commanding officers who are putting him in this impossible task. And he uh maybe uniquely uh sees the uh trench struggle and also uh the inhumane uh and ambivalent politics of uh the officers. But yeah, I think his performance is really great. His but his his speech is is really really good. And the tracking shots obviously is really good. I love actually kind of the uh shot design too that we get those tracking shots to illuminate you know the trenches and also the battle, but we're mostly static when we are looking in the ornate working quarters of the commanding officers. Not entirely static. There's movement there.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

I I wanted to ask you about that, Colin, because I feel like you always have the most to say about gamma choices like that. The first scene, it was so weird. Right. Yes, no, it is the camera didn't move at all, I think. Or or at least, I mean, they had they had they had some close-ups.

SPEAKER_07 21:27

It followed their blocking for sure. Okay, but yeah, the the biggest thing that I noticed was that they very clearly had like a mic with the camera. Like behind like a boom or whatever. And the last kind of blocking they had in that scene was Brulard and Moreau notably far away from both the camera and the mic. So it was echoing, and it was and it I I don't know. I didn't come up with the good answer when I was watching, but now that I'm thinking, like it it almost might indicate a remote. Of them and their decisions from like the logic of the audience. Like, because Moreau, I don't know. This is me hypothesizing. Literally just coming up with this on the whim.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

That was a Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 22:17

I mean, because Moreau originally, he's like, My men are four mount. Like, I will not do anything against their interest, against their well-being. And then Brular is like, well, hold on. How about a promotion? And Moreau's like, huh. Well, maybe this will work. Maybe we can do this. And as as you know, the scene ends, they are far away from the camera. They are conspiring almost. Like, let's see if we can do this for political gain, for personal promotional gain. Then we end the scene there. I don't know. But yeah, I th there is definitely movement. There's still movement in those scenes with them. Because there is blocking and the the shots follow them, but we don't get anything like the tracking scenes.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

And it just yeah, and and I guess when I said no movement, like the the thing that stood out visually to me, and to your point, or as you already said, was how they were moving closer and further away constantly from from the lens. Right. Um so it was this weird like Doppler effect. Visually and yeah. But but I I I had no explanation. So it any facial expression I made was not was not meant to disparage that theory. I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_07 23:34

Well, I guess no, I mean that it could also like the camera position is also static, whether or not it's panning versus yeah, okay. I don't know. Yeah. But either way, it's notable. Like, even if it does move and it's focused sometimes, we do get these like one shots and these two shots that are, you know, cut a lot versus the constant movement in the trenches and on the battlefield. Yeah. So the thing I think this film does the best is its perspective. So it is I think it's very clean, I think it's concise, and it's very clear. Like it this can be this message can be picked up with very elementary consideration. It is it's not trying to trick you at all. Um it starts with this message of kind of the detachment of Well, I let me I don't want to necessarily sum up the message, but it starts with this perspective we we get that voiceover saying that you know successes are measured in hundreds of yards and cost hundreds of thousands of lives. And immediately after we get a cut to the the working offices of the commanding officers, and Moreau and Broulard talking about how Moreau has made this ornate and uh comfortable space in which to work. Very stark contrast, stark just juxtaposition, and we get that throughout the film. We are constantly jumping between the trenches and the the costume design of the the soldiers versus Moreau in particular, very clean, very immaculate versus the dirty, grimy uniforms of the soldiers. And then we're cutting right back to the commanding officers chatting in this very comfortable, very ornate room, getting served all this food. They're constantly talking about the lunches, and then after the execution, we immediately go to them eating, talking about how well the executions go. There's just a lot of juxtaposition, we get a very clear message, and there's a lot that reinforces that message throughout that Kubrick does intentionally, not just Kubrick, also cinematographer George Krauss, who was doing, I believe, document documentary work before this, and I think we see that a little bit in some of those choices that he makes.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

I think it's really important to mention that this movie is very straightforward, because I agree with you. But I also don't think that Kubrick treats the audience like an idiot, you know, like everything is plainly laid out, but there is also its plainness should not be mistaken for simplicity. Like there's a lot of complex topics being bandied about throughout the movie, and I really appreciated that there's a lot to chew on as you leave the experience of watching this film, and a lot of different interpretations you could make about various points that I think is a hallmark of of a good Kubrick movie.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah, I I was gonna say something very similar. It's not that it's spoon-fed, it's just that everyone involved had a pretty specific thing that they had in mind. And there's nothing wrong with art being open-ended and asking questions and being open to interpretation. I'm obviously not saying that, but there is sometimes when you're not quite sure what to say is when you leave things open. And I think we can all appreciate when like when you have a clear point of view, it's not really the place for ambiguity. Something like this has its place alongside a more, oh, it's what you make of it type story.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

And if we're talking about this movie as an anti-war film, I think that's even more important that the message is not muddied at all. Yeah. Because if if you want the audience to walk away with maybe not specific thoughts, but at least overall feelings of a changed perspective on the act of war, then you have to be very clear and and concise in what you're trying to communicate. I I feel like I sometimes deal in whataboutisms too much, but again, I think if this movie is made by somebody who doesn't have as clear of a directorial vision as Stanley Kubrick throughout his career, I mean we see he's he's very, very particular about what he wants to say and how he wants to say it. This movie could be a disaster in the hands of somebody else, especially like movies that you see, not just war movies, but I'm thinking of movies like Mrs. Miniver, a movie I actually kind of like. But you see these war movies pre in the in the golden age of cinema and also the leading up to the modern age. There are these movies that have messages similar to this film, but they don't quite know how to compact it in as neat a package as as Kubrick delivers it for us here. They also get caught up in what I think Truffaut was mentioning of like they want to immerse the audience in this big dramatic scene, and it loses sight of the fact that you're not supposed to be enjoying this, you know? You're not supposed to be in awe of the the overall act of war. You're so I mean you can take positives away from individual acts of heroism, but those kinds of movies that are not this one also they just tend to drag on forever and ever. Mrs. Miniver is guilty of this, if we ever talk about that movie. But directors in the 40s, 50s, 60s loved to hear themselves talk through the script and through these scenes that just seem endless. And the fact that this is 90 minutes as well is really just chef's kiss.

SPEAKER_07 30:00

I think what you were just saying specifically about Truffaut's comments and about how maybe not about, but hinting at this action hero type perspective of how you know cool it can be. This this film was before that comment. That was in 1973, I believe. But in the one battle scene that we really get, we are constantly shifting between zooming in on Kirk Douglas and a wide shot of everybody. And even when we're looking at Kirk Douglas, everybody's fallen around him. Honestly, maybe to a fault, like everybody is falling around him. It's if you remove your own. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Kubrick actually killed those guys. Those we'll talk about, I think, later in the deeper dive, but those explosions are so fucking close to those actors.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

They're so close, you're like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 30:59

Yeah, yeah. But it it it does not let us really focus on Douglas as the center of this assault. It it shows us that he is leading everyone on and he is consistently pushing. But it all the second we're like, okay, yeah, Douglas, that looks pretty fucking cool. You're climbing, climbing through that wire, s diving down into the water of the of the pits, awesome, it pulls right back out, and it shows this is a group effort, and not only is this a group effort, this is a group collapse. Everyone is falling, this is not a successful assault. So, yeah, it it it doesn't really let us see Dax as this heroic figure. It's m more like a figure head of this failure.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yeah, and he's he's doing what he's been told to do. He's doing things out of a sense of duty. There at no point does Kirk Douglas look like he's enjoying himself. Right. He he is clearly terrified out of his fucking mind, but he's you know, blowing that whistle and he's moving people forward because that's what he's been tasked with doing.

SPEAKER_07 32:09

I also think you were mentioning if this were in the hands of another director with the less clear vision, there are some moments here where I think Moreau almost I mean, uh maybe not almost, I think Moreau makes some valid points here. Um not necessarily points I agree with. I don't know, I've never been in war, so I can't really speak to that. But Moreau has some lines where I'm like, specifically when he's talking about uh orders, and he's talking about, well, uh humanity aside, the soldiers have to follow orders, and it's not their place to decide if they are able to be uh completed, like if they are possible, because if if in every scenario soldiers are like, is this a good order? Should I actually be following this order? Then none of the command structure would work. So I don't think Kubrick, you know, builds this this thing f solely for the vehicle of this anti-war message and ignores valid rebuttal. I think he also allows for uh some conversation for the other side too, that I think specifically with Dax's speech, gets uh overweighted. But yeah, I think I think Moreau makes actually some uh coherent and uh maybe even potent points on the other side that we get to approach throughout this film.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

Alan Christmas Adventurer Lundy. He was just following orders.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Following orders. I think the zoom out there is well, sure, that's how the military command structure works, and that's why this system is inherently evil as well. Right? This war should not be taking place in the first place, because war is just inherently awful.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

But you know, he also pointed out that even though that guy wasn't married, his mom was proud of him. So I thought that that was he was a real nice guy, you know.

SPEAKER_07 34:10

That's true. There is like a severe downfall to Moreau, because at the beginning And it's sharp, it's a sharp plateau, too, because at the beginning you're like, oh man, this this guy really feels for his soldiers. He's not gonna send them to the anthill.

SPEAKER_06 34:24

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Yeah, that's the first the fact that the first thing that he does is say is is reject the idea and say, like, my men are tired, this is impossible. And and you're kind of you're you're led to believe that this might be if you didn't know what Kirk Douglas looked like, and you know that Kirk Douglas was leading the movie, you might assume that that was him, because this seems to be a guy that is rejecting the want and destruction that's being requested of him.

SPEAKER_07 34:50

And then, yeah, just the very quickly disregarded a simple recommendation of personal gain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

And then it's it's hammered home, I think, in the very next scene during his like troop morale visit where he gives these like set prompt answers, like total soldiers. Are you ready to kill more German soldiers? That's a great quote.

SPEAKER_07 35:18

Yeah. And then the shell shock moment.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah, Married Soldier.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

You like gladiator movies?

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Parts of and this could be Tubi's fault, shout out to Tubi, but there were certain parts of the movie that the sound didn't really match up for me. The scene where they're going on the night the night patrol, and I I cannot remember the character's names. Which one? But the sh the sh the shitty colonel.

SPEAKER_07 36:02

Roger.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Roger, yes. Commander Roger, you're right.

SPEAKER_07 36:06

Lieutenant.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Lieutenant. Don't don't quiz me about about it. Justin's the only one who knows because he's in the he's deep in the trenches of love, so so Justin could tell you rankings, but I could not. That was not my flavor of autism growing up, is memorizing. There were some some people I know could do the whole thing where they look at the shoulder pips and they'll tell you what that person's rank was. For some reason that never ever clicked for me. I'm just going by is that a Justin thing?

SPEAKER_07 36:40

Do you do that? No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

I had I had transitioned away from I had transitioned away from my Justin joke to just a general observation about why I don't know. When he throws that grenade and it explodes, it's the world's quietest grenade explosion like in the history of cinema, I think. Because it goes like it really is like even though he he cannot he cannot have thrown it more than 30 feet, and it's a live grenade. And maybe, maybe there's some something I'm missing there, but those things usually make a pretty loud bang noise. You know, grenades famously make noise. There were a a couple of things throughout the movie. Now some of that is because I think they're filming on location too, so the sound quality is gonna be a little different than less controlled than when you're filming on the on a on a sound stage.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

What did you think about there was a scene when they were in the palace and you could you could hear the echoing of because they're really gonna say I think that could be Well uh it wasn't actually though, the one where it was most apparent was not during the trial. It was when they were walking down the stairs. Up the stairs, yes. Okay. Yeah. I mean it would you could hear it somewhat in the trial scene as well. And I that could, I think, to one's personal taste, be something that did or didn't work. I actually got it. Because again, it yeah, yeah, it really grounded you in the location. I I that was something that I thought was great. I thought that was that was probably incidental, but very cool.

SPEAKER_05 38:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Another thing that maybe didn't work as well for me, the three men condemned to death, the actors who play them don't I mean, I'm sure they're all dead now, so I I don't have to apologize or anything. They're uh hit or miss, I think, on how how much because really, I mean, these three men are undergoing a significant tragedy at the at the emotional heart of this movie, and you are supposed to really be rooting for them and feel for them. And I think you do, but you do it in a Kirk Douglas way, in a in a in a Colonel Dax way, in that this is an outrage and this is injustice manifest in the machinations of war, but you don't personally connect with them, at least I didn't as much. There were s I and maybe maybe there's an intention behind that in that we are given three very different people, like three very different men. You know, there's there's uh god, yeah. I I'm just struggling with these names here.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Timothy Carey playing Private Maurice Farrol. Yeah, Ferrell.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Okay, yes, he's the worst, I think. Yeah, I I he's the worst. And I'll say I this morning I had to look him up because I was wondering what his deal was.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

He's a motherfucker.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

No, um well, he kind of looks like Brad Garrett. Yes, I mean yes, he does look like Brad Garrett. He does also look like the guy who plays the the Russian bad guy in one of the Harry Potter movies, you know, the the head of the the in in Goblet of Fire, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Karkarov? Karkarov. He reminds me, he's he gives big Karkarov energy here. Just kind of his long Eastern European face. Like I was really expecting him to break out the thickest Bulgarian accent you've ever seen. He does not look French at all. Anyway, I did some research behind the scenes on Timothy Carey, and apparently he was cast because he was known to play characters who have wild manic mood swings, and it's meant to evoke that kind of reaction in the audience. Apparently, though, he was a nightmare to work with and was actually fired from the set before they finished filming all of his scenes. And so some of his scenes are actually shot with a body double because he apparently at one point also faked his own kidnapping to avoid coming to set one day.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so crazy. It's really, really wild, some of the stories of this uh of Timothy Carey here.

SPEAKER_07 41:22

Yeah, Kirk Douglas did not like his performance in moments, and Kubrick apparently was like, Alright, Kirk isn't liking this, ham it up, keep going.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Yeah. I I've got I've I've got two main things that I didn't really like, at least one of which is probably unfair. And it's sort of I mean Zane, you already you already pretty much said it. It's that there's this movie, it has the older cinema detachment, cold, performative, presentational style acting in many places. And I don't think just in those three, I also, I know we we've we've enjoyed, we've mostly talked up Kirk Douglas, and I thought he was effective for what he was trying to do. But for example, there was also the scene where he did the Wicked Witch of the East, bro. You know what I'm talking about?

unknown 42:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 42:16

At the end, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Which like kind of made me giggle. And I know like this is again probably it's the fault of you know, I'm applying a modern brain-rotted sensibility watching it, but nothing there should ever make me kind of go, like, wow, that I don't know if that was how this man would have really reacted in real life. It seems a little over the top. I also thought, what's his name? Moreau, George McCrady, was cartoonish in a not in a cartoonish, like, I can't believe how evil he is, in a like, this really stands out, as we've said, and perhaps he's he's perhaps performing in a different movie than than Kirk Douglas. And maybe where it works for Kirk Douglas, I'm not sure it's I'm not sure it's entirely in his favor, in McCrady's favor.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

I totally see what you're saying with McCrady because it I think it works. I didn't notice it really yes, I didn't notice it really because he's the villain, like and he's clearly the villain. So you can kind of brush some of the parts where he's not gelling with the the overall tone in the same way because you're like, oh well, he's saying that because he's the crazy bad guy. But there were parts, I think, where maybe he's just being outshone by Kirk Douglas, who's turning in a pretty solid performance. I uh this is probably a good time to mention this too. Kirk Douglas is probably at a at a at a an unfair advantage here because he also helped write this script. He was very deeply involved in the making of this movie, and to the point where he actually uh we have him to thank rather than Kubrick for the ending. The Studio uh United Artists was kind of hands-off because Kubrick had over his first couple movies had developed a positive reputation. This is kind of his first real opportunity at the ripe old age of 28 to have some f some more freedom as a director, but even so, in a more restrained early early instance, Kubrick decides along with the producers, the his co-producers, that audiences would resonate well with a happier ending, where they're saved at the last minute by Roulard. But Kirk Douglas apparently read the revised script and called Kubrick and called him a stupid motherfucker and said, You better put the original ending back because I signed on for the script that I was given originally, the message that I was given originally, and if you change this, I will not show up to set ever again. So I think, and to this movie's credit, I think if this movie had a happy ending, it does not hit the same way at all. Because it under it undercuts the entire message of the movie. Like, and you're you're supposed to walk away with this, like, oh my god, uh, injustice type of thing.

SPEAKER_03 45:20

The the one other thing I want to say that that I'm not sure worked, which was another point that I was wondering if it was again an unfair critique from a modern audience. The Americann-ness of it, and the the the I mean there's sort of transatlantic-y, but but it was, you know, American English for the most part. And if and you know, I had that thought early on, and then kind of dismissed it as like, well, you know, it's probably the product of its time, and you know, we're lucky they weren't doing it with like faux British accents for some reason, because that's just how things were often how foreign any foreign like language was often portrayed in this era of Hollywood. Yeah. But, but, but, but I read it, may have been a link from just from like the Wikipedia page, that some contemporary review did criticize that. So what it was even noticed at the time how I think it it it was specifically about care that was put into, let's say, the uniforms, into being accurately French, and there was very little that was put into performance and dialogue that was even meant to evoke the French. And how even at the time, for some people that took them out of it. So it's not just that like we're used to more quote-unquote authenticity today. It's that I mean uh th there was something there was something like limited and and uh Anglo-centric, American-centric to uh how everyone in this in this in this film was portrayed.

SPEAKER_05 46:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 46:56

So I uh I look at that uh personally, absolutely understand because yeah, they're speaking very American English in the French army, and it's kind of not the most effective way to maybe portray the French army. But I think how I personally view that is that it's an attempt to uh universalize the message because if we're trying to emulate the French in this, we are now uh it's now a commentary on the injustices of the French army in 1916 in this instance. Whereas that is not what I get out of the film. Now, do I think that Americanizing everything but the you know costume design and set design and everything is the best way to universalize the message? I don't know. But I think that's at least how I reconcile that critique.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

I think that's Kubrick never was really into uh he was much more concerned philosophically with the way movies looked and the actual content of the script than he was with the with with micromanaging the delivery of the lines themselves. He on the one hand, uh you know this is a this is a thing where that we see more later. I know it's it's mentioned by the actor who pr who played Brûlard. He was a a veteran Hollywood guy.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

Adolf Menji, yep. Big time.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Yes, Adolf Menju. And Kubrick made him do a a take 17 times, and it really pissed him off. And so we see even the beginnings of what would become Kubrick's hallmark of doing something over and over until it's right. But I think it that belies this trust that Kubrick has in the actors he casts to get it eventually on their own. Like he wants it done the way that he thinks is correct, but he's also not going to tell you how to do it correctly. He's going to make you do it until you get it on your own. And I think that's partly why there's no in any of his movies, even in uh Barry Linden, right, which I've only seen once, but Barry Linden is a period piece. But even in that movie, there's not a real focus on dialect or you know, making sure that everything sounds proper or period appropriate. Yeah. That's just a thought that I had about Kubrick. Trying to remember, I had one other thing to say.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

Can I as please just just to maybe make sure that like those two things that didn't work don't come across as superficial. Because ultimately, I think, you know, it's clear my impression is the movie as a whole did work. What those two things do for me is they they take something slightly away from whatever like emotional impact it has on me. And anything that's that's particularly something, particularly an anti-war film that's trying to impart on you, it's it it's trying to get into your soul and make you feel sick and show you that this is uh show you how gross everything this is. Emotional affectation is the most important part, I think. Like that that that should be what one takes away from it. It shouldn't be so much like an intellectual argument against something. Because that's those never take root as as effectively. And so that and those two things that I brought up sort of diminish the emotional impact for me. But I hear like Colin, you rebut my points well every week. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

I don't feel that weeks.

SPEAKER_03 51:08

No, I and I I I I don't say that with any sort of like I I again I did not consider just how you said about the universalization of is that a word? I don't know. Universalism. Yeah, yeah, of of making this not very much not about the specific atrocities of the French. Or you know, that this is something endemic to any army in any war in any point of history. So you're not trying to ground it in a specific point in time.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

I agree with you. I also agree that I I think I'm gonna go back to again the the varying effectiveness of the performances of the three accused men does diminish this movie a little bit for me because I also really enjoy being able to take something away from a movie that maybe is not intentional on the part of the director. And Kubrick just has this shit locked down so hard, and this movie in particular has a very specific message to convey that if those performances had been better, I think there's maybe more to have been taken away as a as a viewer, like on the just like personal tragedy, like there's an emotional connection there that's lost a little bit. So I do I do I I I don't think that works as well.

SPEAKER_07 52:46

So uh my thing that works is the same. I that's why I predicted that you would have performance notes, because I think the performance notes are obvious. So instead of re-listing what we've already talked about, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Because I think my my response to the performance notes, and this might be a little retrofitting or explaining after the fact, but I think I think in the same vein as how the Americanism of the dialogue and portrayals of characters universalize the message. I think the performances good or not, also uh universalize the message because we're not relying on the emotional connection to the characters. We're not saying that, oh, this person shouldn't be executed for whatever reason because they have a wife and child. And I'm emotionally connecting to them, so they shouldn't be executed. We are saying that, you know, regardless of who these characters are, they are components in a system that is unjust. And uh so in a sense, yeah, logically we shouldn't be sending them to be executed because it's unfair. But also I mean, yeah, the I I'm not necessarily trying to make the argument that this should be an entirely logical point because I think that it's most potent if it's logical and emotional. I think just to play devil's advocate, the the the emotional side, whether it was intentional or not, being kind of removed makes this a larger message.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

I see what you're saying, and I think I was gonna say something sort of like that, and then I sidetracked myself earlier. But I think there could be an intentionality behind that in that we get three different people who react very differently to their impending deaths, right? And the point is that regardless of which person, if any, you identify with, or whichever person you feel the most empathy for, all three of them have been unjustly condemned, and that's the point. I th I I'd I I totally see what you're saying there.

SPEAKER_07 55:12

Yeah, and they all three are individuals, and that's emphasized by their trajectory and how they deal with what is going on. Good performance or not, I think that's most evident with Farole. Farrell. Because yeah, his initial reaction's like, oh, we're getting out of this. And me as an audience member, I'm like, yeah, they're gonna get out of this somehow. This is crazy. And then the next scene, I believe, we see that him in, he's doing his over-the-top crying and you know, responding like that. But yeah, I mean we and also with the execution scene itself, we're like starkly contrasted with the individualism of these three people versus the very rigid like portrayal of everybody else in the army.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

So this like illusion of choice that that's being given to the men of like, do they want to blindfold or not, even though it's it doesn't matter in the end. It doesn't even matter if they're particularly conscious.

SPEAKER_07 56:17

Right. Well, yeah, and he wasn't given the option of a blindfold when he wasn't conscious, but then before the actual shots, they like pinched his cheeks and got him all conscious. Yeah. No option of blindfold.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yes, and Moreau, and it it's by the request of Moreau that he be conscious for his execution. Yeah. Yeah. Particularly gross man.

SPEAKER_07 56:41

Right. Yeah, that was the biggest thing that I didn't think works, just because I'm I'm with you. I want to emotionally connect. And performances when they reek of insincerity. Um maybe not insincerity. I don't want to say insincerity.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

It could be just ineptitude.

SPEAKER_07 57:02

Yeah, I that's not the way I was thinking, but yes, it could just be straight up bad. But also, like, I mean, maybe even intentionally so. I don't know. But yeah, I want to emotionally connect, and if anything gets in that the way of me doing that, I immediately struggle. But I think it can go in the film's favor that regardless of whether we are emotionally connecting with them or not, we are still on their side.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

Alright, do we want to move on to standout scenes? Could I lead with one uh could I lead with with tracking shots aside, I mean we can get more into those. The first one that stood out to me was uh just before the little the little fart grenade that Zayn was making fun of earlier. When the flares go up in the sky and it reveals the remainder of of the battlefield between the little area of no man's land between where they're camped out and I guess the anthill or wherever they're trying to go. And you see the bodies strewn on the ground that are illuminated by the light of the flare. And whereas previously, I mean, I hope this just wasn't my TV's settings set to the point where I couldn't see anything in the dark, but I think you were not aware you you you knew this was no man's land, you knew that there was destruction and rubble, but you didn't see the human cost of the people lying there. And I actually had briefly for a second when when they show them there in the light, I was like, oh, is that the soldiers we were just looking at who are playing dead?

SPEAKER_01 58:42

I had the exact same thought.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

But then I was like, no, those are bodies that have probably been rotting there for a week at this point of some previous futile charge that are now about to be joined by this entire company. But I'm glad I was not the only one that thought that.

SPEAKER_07 59:00

No, yeah, yeah, I've definitely had that. I also thought that the flares were just like meant to be an irony, like because of how Roger, yeah, of how Roger's like, I want a flares every five minutes. And then immediately after he's like scared off. He's because I thought the flare was supposed to like uh draw fire and he's supposed to be kind of the catalyst for what makes him want to run. But no, yeah, you're you're totally right. That's exactly what they're meant to do.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

And another one really early in the in the in the movie, which I don't even know if this was done on purpose, because in in the practical effect age, it would have been very difficult to time this out so correctly. But when Moreau is going around doing his canned little little morale speech to the soldiers, and he's talking to one about if you're good to your rifle, your rifle will be good to you. Something like that. Which and then as soon as he finishes saying that, a mortar goes off. And and it's very it's one of those that's very close. And it's not just the sound, it's you see the spray. Which I saw that as like as like you can be good to your gun. It's not gonna matter when you step out and you're and you're blown to smithereens in this very impersonal warfare that was you know that's one of the things that World War I is famous for, of course. Yeah. Is just how dehuman it was. And and it was not the same, it wasn't hand to hand, it wasn't your sword against my sword.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

I mean, there were moments in the war. Well, of course, but uh as we know, yeah. It's these two separate, like like this transition from one form of warfare to another, and it's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

And that was just such rifle. That was such delicious irony.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:52

And again, I I mean something someone as as perfectionist as Kubrick that very well could have been intentional. But I don't know, because how do you that explosion obviously was not added in post as it could have been today, and timing that off to the end of his speech in in a how do you choreograph that so perfectly, and especially because that whole scene was tracked? I don't know. Yeah. But happenstance uh uh beautiful if even if it was uh accidental.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:22

Yeah, I love that. I I've never really tied those two pieces together so deliberately. But yeah, I think that entire scene is intended to separate command versus trench, and that emphasizes it significantly. Yeah, I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

The whole thing is definitely dripping with irony. I'm gonna go next because when I when I let Colin go in front of me, he always takes the scene that I liked, so I'm doing it. You know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Colin, I love your little impish your little shoulder shrug, like ooh, who me? No, I'm just a humble southern lawyer. I didn't do none of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

Okay, the one I have two. The first, the very obvious assault scene. Really great. Really is the one combat scene, like I said, we get in the whole movie, but worth it for sure. Kind of kind of interesting that a war film has so little actual warfare going on in it, but I think that's certainly purposeful. It took Kubrick a month to set up this this field that he hired in Bavaria, and the battlefield itself, I'm taking this from the Wikipedia page, divided into five different filming regions where explosive charges were specifically placed. Oh my god, those those charges are so scary. Because mainly like like less so because it's a scene of warfare, and more because the movie lover within me was like, oh my god, somebody save those extras. Like, please get those extras out of there. Somebody call the union. Are you kidding me? It's a miracle. Nobody's legs got blown off by those things. Even if they're even if they're, you know, blanks or like we're talking real explosives here. Like there is no such thing as a safe explosion on a film set. So I was amazed. But the the the division of regions made it easier for him to film people dying as he split them all into different groups. Talk about just the logical genius of Stanley Kubrick there like breaking things up piecemeal so that it works better for him. The other scene that I really love and I think is essential to the message of this movie is the ending scene where the cafe owner hauls that poor German woman out and makes her sing, and the men are going feral, and she starts singing, and then they all like kind of stop and listen to her, and then they all start humming the tune that's familiar to them, even though it's in German and they're French. It really drives home the point that the path to glory is not through warfare, it is through things like diplomacy and art and compassion, empathy. And I I I think the movie has to have a scene like this in order to work. And I thought it was great. And also, the woman, the one female character in this entire film, she's played by German actus actress Christiane Harlan. She and Stanley Kubrick met on the set of this movie, and they were married, and they were married until he died in 1999. So pretty wild that he met her on the set of this film.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:03

Did you see that as like an anti-homage or or a callback in any way to Casablanca's ending?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:13

I didn't even think about that, but it is certainly that was it's uh Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:19

I mean This is perhaps reflective of how few movies uh again pre-1970 I've ever seen. But but that was what it reminded me of, you know, because we're in a cafe singing a song, singing some sort of national hymn as well. And of course the difference and and the difference being it's triumphant and hopeful in Casablanca, and here it is tragic and grim because these guys, especially when these guys are going right back to the front and most of them are gonna die. And I suppose what it w I agree with you that it's it's a poignant scene. What do you think, like so much of what we've said about this is is how specific Kubrick was being with his messaging. What's the specific thing he was trying to get across here? Or is this where there's some ambiguity?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

No, I don't think it's ambiguo I don't think it's ambiguous at all. I think the message being conveyed here is that war brings out the very worst in all of us and it rewards terrible people, and it strips us of our these like trademarks of our shared humanity that we can only access when we are at peace. Because these men would not act the way that they did if the circumstances were any different. They are they are dehumanizing this woman because she's German and because she's being wheeled out in front of them because they've been placed in this environment where they have not seen or heard from women that they love, or any woman, for that matter, for a very long time. And so it's like this compounding negative reaction to the circumstances of war. That's my take, anyway.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:24

Yeah, and I I really like your tie to arts in particular, just the song, because this is the first time in the film that we are not presenting English, presenting the one quote unquote universalized language, as I hypothesized earlier, is how it's meant to be portrayed. And yeah, they are French soldiers, and she is a German woman singing in German, and it is irrespective of the language, it uh translates across cultures and it serves to unify and bring out again the best of these men, the humanity of these men, it ceases all you know monstrous behavior that they were previously showing by you know objectifying her.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

I think we're understating too, yeah, like how, like, before she starts singing, there's it's the the the movie is like frantic about how like in its portrayal of these men, like it's it's these like super fast jump cuts from one person to another, and they're all leering at her and shouting and banging stines on the table, saying, Sing us a song, lady.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:46

Right. A scenario where if you were the woman up on the stage, you are fearing for your life probably. Yeah. Yeah. And immediately when she starts singing, very gently, overpowered by the leering, by the yelling, and then it shines through. The minute they start hearing her, they stop, and then they start humming with her, and we are met with this, you know, gentle, like I said, unification, I think. So yeah. Yeah, I mean, my my two standout scenes are are probably the two most obvious. I mean not the two most obvious, they're two obvious ones. First, I really like the trial scene. I like how it's portrayed, I like how they are in this echoey, huge room showing not only the insignificance of the three on trial, but the insignificance of really all of them in the vastness of this scope. And I I love Kirk Douglas's monologue there. Yeah, I just really, really like that scene. Also, again, obvious, but the execution scene. I do think that's a very, very powerful scene because every time I watch it, even though I know nothing's gonna change, I'm like, maybe, maybe something is gonna happen this time where they are finally released from this very unjust s situation. Because and I I think that's reflected by what actually happened in the real life event. Like they were the the four people were actually executed, but like three hours after they were executed, their execution sentences were commuted to just like labor. Hours afterward. So like even in the real world sit real world situation By whom? Who who commuted the sentences? I don't know. I didn't look that far into it, just I'm using it for my own purposes here. Let me just use the use the info. But yeah, like in real life, you're you're like, this is unjust, this should be fixed all the way up until it happens, then that's how I feel every single time when you get those POV shots of them going to the location where they're gonna be shot. You're really individualizing each one of them, even the one that is not conscious or is semi-conscious, and then starkly again juxtaposing these three people against the rigidness of the army. Yeah, I just really like both of those scenes a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:23

One one line that I wanted to point out, which I I loved and I wrote down, was Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

Which I'm sure comes from the novel. So it's Samuel Johnson, actually.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:39

That's 18th century.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:42

Fuck.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:45

Well, uh anyway. I mean, Kirk Douglas said that in the film if you've been listening, just embarrassing.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

Embarrassing. In fact, like it's like a dialogue point, right? Where it's like Samuel Johnson had something to say about that, and and uh Moreau is like who and Douglas is.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:09

He's like, Who's this Johnson fellow? It doesn't matter, and Moreau is like, if if it's a question I asked, it matters, and Douglas is like, Alright, he said this.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:18

That's crazy. I I I I think I completely missed that because I heard patriotism is the last review to the schedule and I wrote it down.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:26

He actually said what the line was after all of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:30

So all right, well, fuck you.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:35

Anyway, um We are not cutting that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:39

If I could connect that to what I what I perceived in that final scene as being like a redressing of Casablanca's ending, which I think is so heavily patriotic. And as we said here, even though they do not under even though the the French soldiers do not understand this this German woman singing, like the shared humanity that they are experiencing in that moment is obviously transcending any national boundaries and showing that we're just one race.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:13

The human race.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:15

Of which Kirk Douglas is ashamed to be a part.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:21

Um I I also really like that. It speaks to now, I think, because it's talking about false patriotism. Most definitely does. Not actual patriotism, like terrible deeds done in the under the pretense of patriotism. So yeah, where's that happening, Colin? Potent line. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:43

You think that's happening now?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:46

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

I don't know. Are you sure? I'd just say there's a bunch of real true patriots out there really showing their true colors. Really, they're being allowed to I can't. I can't even do it for a bit anymore.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:00

I yeah, I was really trying to figure out a way to spin it in a way that was funny and not just really dark, and I couldn't do it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:09

I mean it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:11

My dad's a Mets fan, grew up in the Bronx his whole life. Can you believe that? Cinema.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:25

Okay, so uh we here at the Society acknowledge that we are three white guys, and we represent a very small fraction of the varied perspectives available. Uh so our frame shifter moment that we do each episode is meant to encourage us to ask how other audience members would read this film differently. So, what what do we see here in this film that you know speaks to us in that way?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:01

Yeah, I think I've touched on it earlier that this is a very masculine movie in terms of its presentation and its influences. I mean, war warfare is predominantly seen as a very masculine energy, very uh it's mostly waged by men, at least especially historically.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:29

Yes, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:30

Well, I mean also because men have been in places of power. Right. But also because men suck. So let's just leave it there. Now, Zayn, you can continue with your thoughts. Sorry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

I think women are like one and oh in war, if we're counting the Falklands. Good old Mags. She really got in there. She told those Argentinians what for.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:52

What about Viola Davis's The Woman King? True. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:57

Okay, yeah, women are two and oh in war. Because Viola Davis fought that war. God, I love her so much. But yes, I'm referring specifically, specifically to the ending scene, the one woman we ever see in this movie, and her influence on the film. I don't know. I don't want to give Stanley Kubrick like undue credit necessarily because he's still operating in a male-dominated industry in 1957 when this movie's made, and obviously didn't but also the setting of this movie doesn't really it doesn't really make sense to shoehorn like women elsewhere in the I mean obviously you can't like cast women as any of the main roles in this film at least not in 1957, but his inclusion here is really great and I think gives a feminine perspective of war's futility, and I also think I viewed this scene as a directorial nod to the horrors of war that we didn't even have time in this movie to really touch on, like the human cost on civilians in particular, especially since we are just seeing its effect on the regiment, the 701st, and the effect of this like win at all costs mindset that war tends to bestow on structures and systems, and how like I think it's poignant and purposeful that the one time we see a woman in this movie she manages to overcome quite easily her own fears and her own danger, and she kind of pierces this veil of like disgust and is able to under duress bring men together and calm some of this like aggression and violence that pervades the rest of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:27

Do you see it as sort of like maybe one of the only heroic acts that we see?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:34

Yeah. I would say so. Certainly. Like the the only other I think we're supposed to see Kirk Douglas as a heroic figure in this movie, for sure. Um but like less tied to any actions he does in warfare and more because we are told at various points in the movie that he's a very honorable man, like that he is considered one of the best lawyers in all of France, and that he obviously so rad.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:05

Well, in the Yeah, true. But also, I mean, that being tied to that he uses these powers of persuasion and his ability to pursue and promote justice when there is none to be found. So I do think that like this this scared German woman here shows a lot of bravery and yeah, it is is definitely intentionally held up as as an example of what humanity can achieve if it sets war aside.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:46

Yeah, I like that perspective a lot.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:48

I can see uh someone else maybe viewing it as the woman representing uh maybe the helpless side of civilian population in warfare, which I think goes uh would go against a little bit what you're saying, but uh I definitely like focusing on the the bravery of the situation to uh you know just sing the song in the face of all these very threatening uh men in a hostile environment. Not even just the fact that they're men, that you are literally a German woman, the the enemy population in the French camp.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:34

So yeah. I noticed you guys are leaving out all of the women in the ballroom.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:42

True, true, true, true, true. They're seen for like five seconds. Yeah, and then yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:50

But where are they the rest of the time? Come on. Not even in passing. Also, I would definitely have more of a critique against the exclusion of women characters if we were like in the hospital or something, like somewhere that there actually were women in the World War I, uh in the French army specifically. I still don't love it, obviously.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:19

But let me let me ask you a question about that. If if this if this film were made today like about the exact same time period with the exact same goals, do you is there anywhere else where something like this could have like is is there any more room for inclusion? Or is this is something like is this the type of story that you almost just have to accept that this is the only place it can appear?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:48

Or that perspective can show up.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:50

Yes, I think there's a lot of restrictions based on the setting, namely like on a battlefield in World War One, that naturally just kind of like set up impossible obstacles to include women in this movie, even though we have talked about the nonchalance, if you will, of Kubrick in terms of like his devotion to accuracy. Yeah, historical accuracy, I think naturally, like yeah, I think this is maybe the only place that like you could really even include a scene like this. And it's more than some modern movies would, especially war films. Like Am I forgetting is there a scene in like one of the best war films I think we've seen in quite a while is the most recent take on All Quiet on the Western Front. And I don't think there's a single woman in that movie at all. Like maybe not even once.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:55

Well, I think maybe during during the when they're making the uniform at the very beginning in the factory. Yeah. Yeah. But to I mean, like that underscores your point. We're we're we're searching searching the mental rodex to find one extra, you know? Yeah. Certainly no characters.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:15

I think as a natural follow-up to all of my retort about the universalism of this message, I think it could work in that vein, especially since I've been I've talked about how you know maybe the performance is not being perfectly immersive, uh, doesn't work against it because we're not supposed to specifically latch on to these individual characters. We're talking about the message as a whole. I think it more diversity would work in a more universalizing way. But yeah, if we are sticking to casting for the period, yeah, that obviously puts us in a corner. But I I'm I love some creativity in subverting that restriction, personally. I know not a lot not m some people don't. I know some people don't like that. I. I don't want to say Little Mermaid, because that's not realistic or historical, but things like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:21

Like where we get critiques like that, yeah, obviously. I think you could point to less in less in movies and more in maybe TV shows or limited series that implement colorblind casting and as ways that historical accuracy is set aside f to the benefit of of the end product. Things like Bridgerton, I think. Maybe. Bridgerton very clearly doesn't care too too much about historical accuracy anyway. This is the fact that this scene exists at all, I think, is pretty significant. Like I said earlier, I think it adds a lot to the film. The fact that it is a woman who delivers this kind of ending note on like the condemnation of warfare is a big credit to S.K. It's maybe cheating to talk about Kubrick's later work, but Kubrick wrote everything else he ever made from this movie on, or at least had a big hand in the script work for each movie. So we see in his later films, like there is this I don't know, because a lot of his movies are male-oriented, but I wouldn't say that they're exclusive necessarily, because we do still get a ton of really fantastic performances from women and chances for women to shine through in movies like The Shining. The Shining. Uh as well as I this is uh maybe a little bit of a hot take. I think Nicole Kidman gives a great performance in Eyes Wide Shut, so there is that. That maybe this choice to include a woman in this movie is indicative of his later work and its its equally compelling opportunities that women have in a in in Kubrick movies.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:33

That makes any sense. I don't know, that might be too generous for me.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:40

But that's okay. Hey, I I I can hear the take.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:44

Well, yeah, I mean, because on the other side of that, you have 2001 a space odyssey, which also doesn't have women anywhere mainly.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:52

You have clockwork orange, which is Clockwork Orange.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:55

But to in his defense though, as well, even though he is really he is taking these scripts and doing what he wants with them, from here on out, all of the films that he creates are taken from other source material. So he is still also like working with source material and whatever limitations they might have to begin with.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:27

Right. No, that's absolutely fair.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:30

There are no people of color in this movie, which is also a thing I think maybe would never have occurred if this movie was made in the modern age. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, get get Timothy Carey out of here. Let's put yeah, give that give that role to Idris Elba or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:50

His elongated Eastern European face.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:58

Albus. I always think of Kharkarov and that that one that that that scene makes me laugh every time.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:11

You know who else looked really bizarre in this movie? I don't I I don't have the I'm trying to I need the catalyst in front of me. It was the it was he was a little heavier set, round face, big mustache.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:26

Do you know who this was, Colin? He was I know who you're talking about.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:29

I just can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:31

Was it perhaps Paul Boss? Major how do you pronounce that?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:39

Oh yeah, Bert Freed may be who you're talking about?

SPEAKER_07 1:28:42

Okay, let's see, Paul.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:44

Why not?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:45

Oh yeah, I think it was probably Bert Freed, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:48

Sergeant Boulanger.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:51

Thank you for the pronunciation check there, Zane. Boulanger.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:58

Wink wink.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:59

Bullinger. Yeah, just uh real memorable.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:04

I have n that no no further point to make on it, but there was I think at one point he was sharing the sc'en sharing the screen with our our other friend, Igor Kharkarov. And I was just uh Yeah, he's the one who comes to get them. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:21

Yeah, he is to take them to be executed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:24

And it was just quite a quite a pair of mugs.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:28

There's a lot of great mugs in this movie. Truly, Kirk Douglas has a really memorable face. George McCready famously was cast as villains his entire career because he was in a bad car accident. He has that scar on his cheek that's featured very prominently in this movie. Was that real? Yeah, it's a real that's a real scar. That is a real scar. Oh, get out of here. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:50

I I put that in my notes for like characterization because I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:54

That was my first note that I put in this movie. I was like sick scar.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:59

Did you know he was born in Providence, Rhode Island? Woo! Rhode Island rep baby.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:06

He died in Los Angeles, California. I can do fun facts too.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:11

Just like me. I'm also gonna I'm also born in Providence and gonna die. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:16

Justin, you were gonna say, I'm also gonna die in Los Angeles, California.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:19

No, no, that's that's yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm born in Providence and gonna die in LA.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:24

Okay. We are transitioning now. What say you all?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:30

Yeah, so say we all.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:39

All right. Let's move into uh cultural context and reception. So uh importantly, this film was released smack dab in the middle of the Algerian War, which France was already dealing with some pretty bad PR. So they did not like this film because yeah, I mean, one It's really awesome. Yeah, they were dealing with like an anti-colonialist perspective, obviously, but also they were generally pretty brutal in that conflict. So this whole hey France sucks is sleazy, they were not the biggest fan of. So this film was banned in France until 1975, so 18 years, if my math is correct. But it was also banned in Spain, Germany, Switzerland. Germany's notable because it was filmed there. Switzerland, it was also banned on US military bases. So this was a pretty blatant and uh what's the word I'm looking for? Like it goes in many places. It pervasive universally condemned pervasive is exactly the word I was looking for. Yes, I mean universally I mean it was pretty universally condemned, but also as a persuasive message against you know, militarism and war and all that.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:13

I'm surprised it was banned in Germany.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:17

Well, was it banned in West Germany? That's not surprising at all if it was banned in West Germany. It was filmed in East Germany, which is give me a fact check then because that was filmed in Bavaria.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:35

But the French department state memo, it said Mr. Velo opined that foreign markets had some importance to the American film industry, and he hoped that in the interest of Franco American relations, the American film industry might in the future produce films that were a little less derogatory toward the French. End quote. So that's the release. It didn't it didn't really make much money, kind of in the the vein of what Kirk Douglas was going for with the ending and advocated for, um, and why the studio and Kubrick were thinking of 180-ing at the end there. Its budget was around 900,000, and I think it made about 1.2 million. So Kirk Douglas's salary was actually 350,000 of the 900, which is I mean, he was a producer and he was instrumental in all of that, but that's still pretty high. And Kubrick didn't make anything on the front, and he got a percentage at the end.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:42

So all very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:46

Also, I misspoke. Bavaria was in West Germany. That's my bad.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:51

Well.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:53

Yeah, great company to be in on the the US military. Yeah, the list including colonial France, the US military, and Francoist Spain. Really awesome, heavy hitters there. Really great, great company to be in. US military. Yeah. I'm not surprised at all because this movie is incredibly effective at at conveying the assholey of like warfare in general, and also the blind ambition of those in the command fast track in most militaries, and you know, those people's decision-making skills having negative impacts on the everyday soldier. So not surprised at all that it was not well received. But it has over time been accepted as one of the best anti-war movies of all time. Is that right?

SPEAKER_07 1:34:54

Right. Yeah, it certainly to throw a little bit of spoiler on the our end sequence, it certainly has aged well.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:04

At least in its messaging.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:06

It just I think that goes to the simplicity of the message. Yes. Also, I think it uh is benefited by the separation of us right now and the specific conflict it is showing, because if this message were tried to show or if the if this message were shown over a more recent and currently relevant conflict, i it would not be as universally agreed upon, obviously. So I I think it works in that sort of abstract. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:45

I would say to your point, Colin, that great great observation there, because I think years from now, like it'll probably take us another decade until we are I think we're reaching a place of consensus on the Iraq war as just like a colossal fuck up and one that was just a blind power grab and just ill-informed on every level. I'm really being subtle with my takes here on on the on the Iraq war. But I think that's a that's a pretty strong social consensus at this point, unless you're just a fascist or a or just an apologist for Well, even I would say even most of the fascists are against the Iraq War at this point. That's true. But movies like Zero Dark Thirty or Warfare, a recent one, I think are very effective at condemning war. And maybe we just need a little bit more time to call those classics. Zero Dark Thirty's probably probably gotten there already as as one that is heralded as a great movie, but Warfare might take a little more time. It was just a couple years ago, but it was earlier this year, actually. Was it really that that's Yeah, it was in April. Damn. Shit, yeah. Great movie. I love you, Kit Connor.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:21

Okay, so let's move on to director's style. What do we got?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:26

The only thing I had to say here was was that that thing that's so I think prototypical of Kubrick is like the slow track and the expan the gradual like expansion of the world. And you're you're sort of you're like, oh my god, how much of a set did he design here? And yeah, I mean you saw that several places. Obviously, the first time it was at the trench. You see it like at during that ballroom scene with with the women, as we touched on earlier, and you see it, I think, most poignantly at the end. Not not in the uh not in the very final scene, but in the execution, as we're following the three condemned soldiers on their walls.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:16

That's a great shot. We've yeah, I mean we've talked quite a bit about the the look, the the like kind of beginnings of Stanley Kubrick's like the way he shoots scenes. Very gr like really excellent work with the tracking shots and the the kind of like the scene in the foxhole where he's walking down the row of soldiers, and that's mirrored in the execution scene. Y'all mentioned this earlier, and I wanted to say, like, I thought it was kind of funny how frantic everybody's walking around, but it's accentuated because the camera's not moving. So people are just like wandering around these sets, and you're just like, oh my god, stop moving for two seconds, like please. But you see that a lot in the opening scene with Moreau and and and the general, where the camera is kind of in a fixed point, but the actors are making full use of this very large ballroom area set, and then when Kirk Douglas goes to the general about Moreau's treachery, and they excuse themselves from the ballroom and they go into his like private study, they're they do it again, they're like walking all around that big room with that big fireplace and stuff. It just looks really great. That scene where they're looking out of the foxhole and they the the camera zooms back and you kind of are like placed in the viewpoint of your standing in the foxhole, and then it pans out and you kind of walk forward.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:05

Yeah, I I think I mentioned them before, but yeah, I I always love the the POV shots when we I mean we're we're shown the subject and then we for even the briefest of moments we get to see what the subject is seeing. We are the audience, but we are also placed within their emotional experience too. So yeah, I I will echo everything you two have said thus far.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:32

Very poignant work from the young stan boy. Twenty-eight-year-old. Yeah. What are you doing with your lives?

SPEAKER_07 1:40:44

Yeah, it's really disgusting. More than me. Not more. Different. Alright. I feel like we've touched on performances a lot already. Do we have any other notes we want to mention here?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:58

I've always given in I think in each of our previous episodes, I've s I've sort of shouted out like either extras or just small roles. And two that I I I wanted to give consideration to were the shell shocked sho the shell shocked shoulder.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:18

The short sharpshock, which is at the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:23

What is his name? Fred Bell. Fred Bell, yeah. You know, uh that that stood out to me. I uh I'm not gonna make any sort of comment on its authenticity, but it was you know, it made an impression. And all of the crying extras at the end, particularly the one who we lingered on to see his his Denzel-esque tear fall down his cheek. You know, that that's uh those are not those likely were not people who were auditioned, at least in a traditional sense, for that part. I'm sure they were there was some sort of vetting process, and I'm sure he was looking at all of them for a long time to get the right sort of emotions. But those guys were not movie stars, and they sold that final scene in a way that, as I've said, and I think as as we've said, as we've pointed out multiple times on this on this episode, that scene hinges on you making a connection to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:21

And you're you need to see that it's affecting the soldiers. You can't to to work, and kudos to all of them.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:30

Yeah, that's a really good point. I think that is if I were to follow up my previous argument, I think that is the only scene that absolutely, without a doubt, needs an emotional gut punch to bring home the message. So that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:47

I had one more shout out, acting-wise. It is the the one who is eventually unconscious and is kind of like knocked down.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:58

Way down backing order.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:00

Is it Joe Turkle or no?

SPEAKER_07 1:43:04

Yes, it is Joe Turkle.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:07

Who is also in the shining, he's the bartender.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:09

Oh yes, he is the bartender. He's also in the world. I would not have made that connection. Great guy. He I thought he was great. That one scene that he shines in, especially, is right before he is knocked aw knocked out where he's ranting at the the priest who's come to give them platitudes. That's a really that I think he's the he's the one of the the accused that I I kind of connected with most and uh a really good good performance there.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:45

Yeah, that's a that's a good point. He's given less than the other two and he makes do with what he's got. I think Ralph Meeker does I think he does a good job too. I think he's giving a more subdued performance, which is why some of his delivery comes off less naturalistic sometimes. Yeah, I think Timothy Carey's just the the one that he's given it something, and it's not always something that emotionally speaks to me. But yeah. Let's transition into our society spotlight. Each one of us is going to read one or two letterbox reviews that we like. Who would like to start?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:31

I'll start us off here. I'll start a shout out to my friend Derek, who gave this film five stars and made a really good point in his review. The fact that Kubrick managed to juggle two distinct concepts, the gritty nihilistic war drama that frames World War I as the cruel and capricious playground of old world nobility, and the Kafka-esque bureaucratic and legal nightmare of a military tribunal, whose sole goal appears to be the reinforcement of the meaninglessness of human life, and integrate them seamlessly, and maintain that curiously sarcastic yet still genuinely tragic tone at the ripe old age of twenty-eight is actually ridiculous. Thought that was a great observation there.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:21

Yeah, uh give us Derek's at so I can follow him. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:25

For sure. I absolutely will. Derek 1015.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:32

He spelled Derek.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:34

D-E-R-E-K.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:36

I have one review that I from from a man named Rizge, R-I-C-K-I, who pointed out one thing that I think we've sort of like implicitly acknowledged this, but but he says it explicitly here, is that there is a complete absence in this movie of the enemy.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:00

He says the most remarkable aspect, I'm not gonna paraphrase him, the most remarkable aspect of this pioneer anti-war film is the complete absence of any persons depicting the quote unquote real enemy. Therefore, the significance of the film lays not so much in its anti-war message, but in its brilliant expose of the monsters within the general staff, superbly acted by Adolf Menju and George McCrady. The message here is that the enemy lurks much closer to home. So basically the fact that we don't see any German soldiers, even in the battle scene, which is uh, you know, I that's not something we pointed out, but but also sort of a brave choice and an appropriate one for what the for what the movie's trying to do.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:41

So mine is from Mr. Geek Boy. Yeah. Um that that's it is what it is. They uh I'm also gonna direct a quote. They made a really good point that I really like. They said the themes in this film speak to the pointlessness the themes in this film speak to the pointlessness of war. Pointing something like this out is a sticky subject because it's easy to turn the argument on its head and claim that if you don't support the war they fight, that you don't care for or support the troops. But with the way this film is constructed, Kubrick makes the fighting men the most important aspect of protesting war. One does not protest a war because one lacks support for the troops, one protests a war because they care for the troops. I think that's a really potent point and portrayed very clearly throughout this whole film, and I really like that that point that Mr. Geek Boy that point that Mr. Geek Boy made.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:37

I also I wanted to find something something that's as acclaimed as this is. I looked up negative reviews, and several of the first half stars, when you sort by by lowest ranked, are in French, which I find hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:58

Keeping it real, France.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:02

And there are none of these are struggling to find one here that's This is an outrageous film.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:11

I can't find a oh, there's one.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:13

Well, they they're all they're all just like one sentence kind of dismissals.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:16

So there's no luckery of French honor.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:19

This says boring in all caps and prolonged. And I don't know how you can find this boring. It's so short and there's not a mo there's not a moment to sit. It said from start to finish, this movie sucked terrible amounts of eggs. And then there's a lot more, but I I won't read the rest.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:40

Here's this from G Granis 5. Oh my god, Kubrick's a genius, a phenom, a true revolutionary. Try telling a kid who's seen a literal truck turn into a super robot to save the planet that a black and white movie with forced dialogue is really gonna sweep him off his feet. Be fucking for real. Glad it's over.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:00

That has to be satire. I think that has to be. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:06

Try telling a kid who's seen Transformers that glory doesn't do it for him. But even that, I mean, I mean, in the in this entire app, there's only what, like like two dozen half stars? That one that I just read was was a one star. So he's seen worse. Of the many of the hundreds of thousands of people who probably logged this, only only like 20 people thought it was a half star.

SPEAKER_07 1:49:32

One half star I saw was it said, all of this except for the execution scene, which was fantastic, was terrible. And then they gave it half star. And I'm like, I don't if you gave if any part of any movie was fantastic, you're gonna give it the lowest possible rating? I don't know about that. That's not that's not me.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:52

Anything else to add before we head to wrap up? No, I don't think so. Alright. Well, let's do that then. Justin, what say you? Does this movie hold up? Oh absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:08

As well as anything made before 1970 can. I'll just give it that caveat. Disclaimer No, but it a i it absolutely does. You know, short of someone who can only be entertained by Transformers, I would I would recommend it to most people. I mean part part of what's so accessible here is its brevity, the fact that it was 84 minutes. And I never I never want to sit like evaluate the quality of something based purely on its on its runtime. Because of course, feel within a runtime is a far bigger deal. You know, a well-paced two and a half hour movie is like that. But point aside, I mean th this has a message that can reach anyone and probably should reach everyone. And it's packaged in such a way that even someone with a limited attention span and and not too much interest in like classic cinema should get something out of it. I would I'm gonna give this I give it a four and a half. And if I were getting more granular in my rating, it would probably uh it would be on the lower end of a four and a half.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:19

You know, maybe it would be it would be like four point two five rounded up.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:24

It would be like an eight point six, you know, or an eight point five, just round it up to a nine. The reason being is that it that like as far as you know personal enjoyment goes, it it it's it's not something that I wish to re-watch a lot, if ever. You know, I'm sure and there's clear there's so much that's technically impressive, and there's so much that's important about it, that I believe it deserves that that boost for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:55

Into the into the the rarefied air of a nine of a of a four and a half star territory.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:01

I do definitely think this movie holds up for reasons we've already mentioned. Its brevity, I think, helps a lot. I feel way more comfortable recommending this movie to others than I would maybe a similar like war drama of this of this era of movies. I yeah, I I certainly think if you're a war movie aficionado and you have not seen this movie, you definitely need to see it. That's kind of the person I would recommend this movie to. Even with its brevity, I think some people are just not gonna be as invested in an older film like this, unfortunately. But those who power through will find a very compelling and you know engaging film. So with that, I gave this film four out of five stars.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:52:59

It is me. I agree. I think it holds up, and I think it has improved with age, actually, for the reasons I stated previously. I would and I do recommend this to people, irrespective of whether I think you will like it, because I think it is worth a recommendation, and I also like recommending things to people uh that are maybe is maybe outside of their regular scope of what they would watch, and I think that's one of the benefits of what we're doing here as well. So I uh would and do recommend it. And uh my rating is a five star because I actually have grown to like it more and more with each watch, and I think these the two watches for this were my fourth and fifth, and uh it is uh imperfect in certain areas, and I recognize that, but I think it overcomes and maybe even works with uh uh some of its imperfections in a way that creates uh what I consider a five-star hole.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:08

Fair enough. So Justin takes the happy medium, and our society score is 4.5 out of 5.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:15

Nice. Easy math. Even I can do that. Alright. Well, that's a wrap on another episode of the Post Credit Society. Next time we will be watching Muriel's Wedding, a 1994 film from director PJ Hogan. So cue it up, send us your predictions, and stay tuned for our next episode. If you want to become an official society member, all you have to do is follow us on social media, find us on Letterboxd at PostCred Society, and on Instagram at PostCred Society. Until then, remember, the credits may have rolled, but the conversation never ends. See you next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:41

They all have fetal alcohol syndrome.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:45

Yeah. Chronic lead poisoning. So top heavy.

SPEAKER_07 1:55:51

Kirk Douglas is like slicked back heron. Alright, I'll take that.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:57

Favorite quotes, everybody? Mine is if those little sweethearts won't face German bullets, they'll face blood twice.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:04

I wrote that down too. Wait, how about how about they have skim milk in their veins instead of blood? Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:13

Yeah, the reddest milk I've ever I've ever seen.