Mental Gymnastics and Grief of Alcohol Addiction

In this episode, I sit down with my sister Katherine and we discuss the hardships and tragedies we have experienced in the face of alcohol abuse and addiction. We are both blessed to have worked to overcome the challenges of alcohol, and can laugh about the ridiculousness about it now, despite the darkness that was involved. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:18

Hello, and welcome back to Death is My Life Podcast. I'm your host, Jolene, and I am here with the lovely Katherine.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

Hi there.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Hi, how are you doing today? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Thanks for coming on the podcast and chatting. So we will jump right into it. We wanted to talk about Katherine just celebrated your one-year sobriety versity versatile. Versity! University of sobriety.

SPEAKER_04 0:51

Yeah. So how does it feel? It feels good. It definitely feels good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:58

And how long were you pretending to be sober before that?

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Uh like at least three years. It took, yeah, it took a while to I think fully commit. I think mentally I was not ready to because I thought I could go back and like, oh, I can do this just casually now, but it turns out I cannot.

SPEAKER_05 1:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

I don't know how to do that casually.

SPEAKER_05 1:29

No. So what were some of the signs that you ignored during that three-year period? Or that you just pushed aside?

SPEAKER_04 1:39

That I don't drink just one.

SPEAKER_05 1:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

Like I see other people drinking normally, or I would just do it like in a almost inappropriate way where I became more sneaky about stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:55

Yeah. So you kind of knew you were doing something wrong and you're lying to I fully knew I was doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_06 2:05

It's funny now because I think like we've all been there.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

Yeah. I know I can laugh about it now, but it it is when I like reflect on that. I'm like, wow, that was some bizarre behavior. And it was, I could see if I like allowed that to go any further, that I would have had a problem. Like just compromising my integrity as a human. Like, just I don't know. I didn't want to push that anymore.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

Like, so what are some examples of like what you did that was sneaky?

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Like, I would stop at the bar and have drinks and then come home and try to just be sober. Try to act like I hadn't been drinking already. And and like there's nothing worse when you're drinking to have to pretend to be sober. Like that's so boring. That literally defeats the purpose of the drinking. So I'm like, why am I this is like I don't know, it just felt like I was sucking the fun out of it.

SPEAKER_05 3:20

And it's funny because your partner is like the least judgy person.

SPEAKER_06 3:27

You never cares! Like you're hiding it from yourself, not him.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

I was not even hiding it from him. I yeah, it was like something internal, like it was just shame.

unknown 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

That's really what it was. I think I felt just like, oh my god, here I go again. Or all those mornings that you wake up and you're like, I'm never drinking again. And then, you know, you feel better later, and you're like, oh yeah, I guess I can have one now.

SPEAKER_05 3:55

But do you think like drinking like NA beers and stuff actually helped or hindered your getting sober?

SPEAKER_04 4:03

I don't think there's a problem with it. I don't sometimes people think that it can be triggering and maybe it could be. I I feel like if it's you know something that keeps you like I the main thing is just keeping your hand full, like, with something to drink. You know, I never liked the taste of beer, and I never drank beer for the flavor, so like I don't know. Me, I did drink NA beers for a while, and every once in a while, if we have like a party or something, I'll be like, oh okay, but now that I'm keto, it's pointless. So that's just you don't want the carbs or the sugar, so there's really no point to it. So that really helps, doesn't it? Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_05 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

Uh because that does feel silly if you are like the way I would drink is that I didn't see the point of just having one. And I never, yeah, like I said, I never drank for the flavor of it. So me having a beer was just kind of a little bizarre. But I did do the NA beers for a while.

SPEAKER_05 5:14

Yeah, I did it for a short bit and then kombucha, you know. Like I know a lot of people say that'll trigger them, but it was like, like right now, I'm off the coffee and I'm drinking decaf. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, whatever. It replaces it, it gives me my fix. It like feels it was a stepping stone I needed to get over drinking, and I probably don't do it now because keto.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

It's also kind of like it's okay to keep like little, I call them rituals, but like a little ritual where you're like, if that's your thing that you liked having a cocktail after work, you know, before bed or whatever, if that was your thing, like you can still continue that ritual, but just try to replace it with something that's more healthy for you. And it, you know, I think that's okay to keep those little rituals. Because otherwise you're gonna be like, what am I what do I do? I you lose your structure almost because you kind of have to just start over, but well, it is, it's like when you know, they say like don't make too many major changes at once.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

You know, so if you're stopping the ritual and the actual substance all at once, yeah, that could be too hard and set you up for failure.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Yeah. I do know a lot of people, or like I've heard on other podcasts that, you know, this guy, he just every time he like some of those rituals for him, he said he would just go on a walk instead. And I always thought that was healthy, but I have never I haven't been very structured on how I haven't tried those. Uh but yeah, I think that's whatever you want to replace it with. But yeah, I think just the main thing is just staying busy too.

SPEAKER_05 7:08

Yeah. So when you were drinking, your biggest thing was like internal. Did you ever get in trouble like legally or with people?

SPEAKER_04 7:16

Scot-free. Can't believe it. All these years, never got in any trouble. I made a fucking fool of myself all the time, but I never got in legal trouble. And yeah, I never I never really got I mean, I had some injuries. But had some injuries, but I yeah, I don't know how I got lucky, I guess. But that's yeah, that's very shameful too when you think about, you know, people make mistakes and they they drive or whatever, but yeah, I'm lucky I never did anything too stupid.

SPEAKER_05 7:57

I know. Remember that time I got our friend kicked out of like the crappiest hotel in town? Like you wouldn't think you could get kicked out of. But we were in the pool, remember the pool situation, and I threw a lady's boot into the pool.

SPEAKER_06 8:13

And she came to get I don't remember any of this. You told me, but when she came to get her son, I just like looked at her and spit on the ground or something.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

Yeah, you were you were just more you'd like pick fights and you're kind of just a menace.

SPEAKER_05 8:29

And isn't that weird? I'm not like kind of confrontational at all. Well, and then like he wasn't mad at me, he didn't kick me out, or it gave me he was like, let's go to the next fight, drink there, like he had his kids, and it was horrible. Yeah, it was terrible times, it was rowdy.

SPEAKER_04 8:48

I mean, and it's interesting because even though I do have a lot of I say shame, I mean it's not that deep usually, but I still reflect back and I still think it was hilarious. Like a lot of that stuff is still really funny to me, and I like I I don't think I would take it back because it just I don't know, and it's not that it's not that it still sounds fun, like I definitely don't want to get kicked kicked out of a pool because of you again, but it is kind of it is a funny thing to look back on, and I try to bring humor to it and be like, wow, that was crazy. I can't believe we are alive, you know?

SPEAKER_05 9:30

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

I don't I do have a hard time. I don't okay, let's put it this way, I don't glamorize the alcohol anymore, but I do think there's parts of it that I remember being fun, right?

SPEAKER_05 9:44

Yeah, well, and I think that's what happens. Like sometimes it's fun, and then sometimes it's a freaking nightmare. Yeah. And you never know what's gonna make the difference, you never know how to predict it. So you're always chasing the fun times, yeah, and then you have these crazy bad times, and you're like, oh man, that sucked. Yeah, well, let's try for the fun one again tonight.

SPEAKER_06 10:04

Like, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:09

It's hard. I know. I know because I do remember like some nights just walking home from downtown with you to like mom and dad's house, like just having a good old time, walking down home from downtown late at night, giggling, getting in bed, laughing when mom and dad are like, what time is that?

SPEAKER_04 10:27

Yeah. Yeah, they're that it was fun. But yeah, I think you're right. It's kind of hard to predict what kind of night it is gonna end up on.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

Yeah. Like, I mean, there's all those myths, like, okay, maybe if I just drink beer and not vodka or whatever, it does there's no rhyme or reason. No, you never know. And I think that's probably what's really hard about getting sober and staying sober, right? It's like you start to forget that very last drink that you had and the feeling that you had when you got sober that starts to fade, like the horror of it.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

And then you kind of remember like the fun times that everybody else is like still drinking around you because that's why, yeah, that's why it took me so long so many times, because I'm like, you've you get this amnesia or you forget how horrible it is, and then you're like, oh, I could try this. Let me do it again. I forgot it was, and then you get that really bad, and that's the thing too, is I just couldn't handle the alcohol anymore. I would get so sick for days, and but yeah, you get that amnesia where you forget that oh, I actually it it was sorry, I'm getting losing track of thought. Weren't you getting night terrors too? Oh, yeah, that's a crazy terrors. Yeah, I used to get sleep paralysis multiple times a week with demons sitting on my chest, and like the scariest thing for my husband would have to like wake me up. I'd be crying. And I'm not kidding you, since I've quit, I don't think I've had a single sleep paralysis session like dream. Awesome. Yeah, yeah. I've had like some weird ones, but not like that. And I really I relate them. I think that's like I don't know, the demon of alcohol coming to me in my sleep.

SPEAKER_05 12:25

It really is a demon. I know. It is so dark, it's so dark. It is, it's dark because it's like, oh, this is fun. It's just so manipulative. Like, this is fun, it's socially acceptable. Everybody's allowed to do it, and it's great. And oh, we have events where there's like alcohol, like it's so so socially acceptable, it's weird, but then it's so demonic. Yeah, what it can do, the hold it can have on you, the way it changes. Like you're saying, like I was confrontational. I'm not confrontational. I do not like confrontation. I don't even like to confront like my kids when they're doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

So it's weird.

SPEAKER_05 13:08

It does bring out like this demon in you. Yeah, some people.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Yeah, I didn't have too much, I think, of like a personality change, but it would, I mean, it would, it definitely loosens you up, but it made me make a lot of decisions that I would never have made sober or you know, just kind of, I don't know. It's not as truthful in my opinion, as like when you're drinking, it's it doesn't feel as true to like real life.

SPEAKER_05 13:44

This girl always used to say, alcohol goes in, truth comes out, and I'm like, no, not for me. Whatever comes out of my mouth when I'm drinking is straight up psychotic, not true, like it comes out of nowhere, yeah. You know, I'll make up some weird stuff. Yeah, yeah, totally. It's weird, okay, and then like so we have been so blessed with sobriety. Like, isn't life so much better? All these they call them gifts of sobriety, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:21

Yeah, it's a lot easier. And it isn't super easy getting there, but I have been doing it for a few years, so it feels like I feel like I've got it now, but it made yeah, it's made everything a lot easier just to to deal with in life, I think.

SPEAKER_05 14:46

So we know that to be true, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows. Like we're talking before we started recording about like things you do have to kind of grieve when you get sober, and that is the loss of like a high volume of what you consider friends, maybe. You know, because for us, we're like in a whole different world, right? You take a crossroads, and there's people who just keep on the drinking. And how does it feel to like step out of it and look back in? Like seeing the people going to the same bar day after day, spending the money, drinking the beer, just doing the same old thing they've been doing since we were 21.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Yeah, I or younger. It does feel lonely in a lot of ways, because I don't know, you just don't see the same people anymore because you're not going to the same spots anymore. But the I mean, you just make new friends, or you or you I mean, I'm kind of a oddball that still likes to go out to the bar scene, and I just pretend to drink alcohol with seltzer water. Yeah. But I think it's because I do miss like the social part of it, and that doesn't feel I don't feel triggered by that. Actually, it's actually a really good alcohol repellent for me because I'm like, wow, they shape shifted right before my eyes. And shape shift. And I'm like, whoa, that was crazy. Look how loose they are now. And then it's kind of fun to like observe, and now no, now nobody's gonna invite me because they're like she's observing us who's watching. But it is, I mean, it's just interesting, and there's a lot of freedom to it where you're like, I'm gonna get my keys, get in my car, and drive home now. And not gonna do why I don't have to worry about getting pulled over, and I don't, yeah, it's like such a freedom of being like, all right, see it, you know, like you can go on, you can still do all the socializing, and you can still like drive home and go along with your Mary self. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:09

Cool. So I went out the other night. What? You didn't invite me? I know, it was down south. You wouldn't have wanted to go. Anyway, um, it was after martial arts, and so it was with that whole crew. And okay, mind you, I've been with them for four years.

SPEAKER_06 17:29

I love you guys if you're listening.

SPEAKER_05 17:31

I know you're not, but if you're listening, I love you guys.

SPEAKER_06 17:33

It's just I've been with them for so long, four four and a half years maybe, and they greeted me there with, we didn't know what you wanted to drink, so we got you a raspberry cider, handed it to me, and I'm like, guys, I told you I'm keto, I don't drink alcohol.

SPEAKER_05 17:54

Hello. Hello, you know, I've been saying that. Like, I don't drink, I don't drink, I don't have carbs, like, okay, whatever. So I had no problem turning it down. I was like, oh no, thanks. I don't drink, you know, it was like no, I didn't feel pressured, I didn't feel guilty, I didn't feel tempted, nothing, like no part of me, you know. So I'm in a good place with that, right? And then I didn't eat the pizza, I did have some tacos. Ooh, ooh, bad girl. I was so naughty.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 18:25

Yeah, so I got fish tacos instead to try to be better than you know, the pizza. And I didn't nobody like they were like, oh, cool, we'll share it then. Yeah, you know, it was like whatever. And I didn't feel I mean, it could have been the group. I know you could be with somebody who's like pushes it on you, you know, and they were like, Well, what do you want to drink? And I'm like, I'll take a kombucha if you insist, you know. I mean, that's like eight carbs, so that sucks, but whatever. Party night. Yeah. My new kind of party. It was totally fine. But then, you know, my daughter Harley was like, So was that hard for you? She was kind of wondering how that made me feel that they just gave it to me and like it was in my hand, and like, oh no, no, thank you. And I said, No, now I'm beyond that point, and I'm at like almost like a higher level where I'm like, I don't feel like a loser, I don't feel like I'm missing out. I feel more like I'm setting a good example, and these people are stuck in this like hamster wheel and they can't get out. And if I can influence one person, then that'd be cool. And if I don't influence anybody, cool. I'm sticking with my own integrity, right? But if there's one person who's like trying not to drink and they see me not drinking, maybe eventually they'll say, like, oh hey, you know, yeah. Because it's not healthy, even if you don't have a problem drinking, like there's nothing healthy about it, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:53

No, it's it is, and I like to try to show people that you can still have fun, and like I feel I feel like I'm quicker and wittier, anyways. Like, I thought it was hilarious when I was drinking, but now I can finish a joke.

SPEAKER_06 20:12

Nice. Your jokes were like you would have to tell every detail. They got pretty long.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

I mean, they're still they're kind of still like that. But yeah, you're like, you think you have the microphone and you're you're here for the performance. But also, when people ask me if I want a drink or something, I I have to remember, I think about this all the time where I'm like, is that person even worth my would I relapse for them? Like, no, okay, maybe a celebrity, and I've tried to think about like what celebrity would I relapse for. Billy Bob Thornton. Yeah, see, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_06 20:53

There's no way.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

But yeah, there's there's that where I'm like, oh, or like, oh, maybe, well, definitely in the beginning when I started quitting, I'd say, okay, well, I'll just drink, I'll just drink on uh special occasions, but then everything becomes a special occasion.

SPEAKER_05 21:12

Oh yeah, that it's like or sunny day. Yeah, then Saturday. Tuesday! It's the first Tuesday of the month. Taco Tuesdays, we need our Corona.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

Exactly. You can make anything a special occasion, and then it was like, well, maybe I'll just drink four times a year. But then I'm like, well, what day is worthy of drinking? My birthday, okay. What about Christmas? No, we better save it for New Year's. It was like all this math gymnastics in my brain. And math gymnastics. It was it felt like yeah, and then you're just fixated on the upcoming special event or whatever the special occasion or your birthday, and then I'm like, oh. I'll only drink on vacation, but then then you start booking vacations. Okay. And then you're sick on your vacation, which is also the worst thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:14

And you ruin your vacation, get arrested in Mexico, you know.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

And you're like, why I don't I wanted to remember that vacation. Well, and so something that sticks with me and about that vacation. I remember when dad bought mom, or well, like said, hey, we're gonna go to Ireland, right? Do you remember this? So he said, Hey, we're gonna go to Ireland. This is your Christmas present, we're gonna book a trip. And this was a few years ago. But then he said, like, and so he's sober, but he said, like, well, of course, if I go to Ireland, I'm gonna have a beer in a pub. And my husband does that too. And I'm like, well, then we're not going to freaking Ireland. So no, you know. Then he goes, like, if we go to Italy, of course I'm gonna have a glass of wine. I'm like, a glass of wine, you're gonna drink all the beer in Italy, and then you're I'm gonna have to go find you at the embassy or something. Like, this is not a good idea. Why? Why is that such a thing?

SPEAKER_04 23:13

Well, to be honest, I haven't had a vacation yet. Yeah. So I don't know how that's gonna feel. I mean, there's there's differences, like, like camping to me, always you always had beer or whiskey or something. And that doesn't seem to bother me because I can stay busy while I'm camping.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

But it feels like, yeah, like going to a tropical vacation or something. Without a pena colada. Or like my favorite thing used to be like, I'm gonna go get some I'm gonna go get some ice from the lobby and then go in and taking shots in the hotel lobby. That is the funnest. Like people watching, you're like, I live here right now. Like it's so fun. But yeah, yeah. Those days are past.

SPEAKER_05 24:05

I know. Hopefully. Hopefully, yeah. That's all in the past. I mean, we can do like virgin stuff now, but not really, because uh it's got too much sugar. But but yeah, no, virgin drinks. Madeline, my other sister, was so good. Remember when we went, were you there at grandma's funeral? There was an open bar at the party, and she kept running, and she kept me fully stocked all night with virgin drinks. It was like so cute because I was like freshly sober then. I'm pretty sure I relapsed after that, but it was like, yes, okay, so now I don't feel like an outcast, you know, I don't feel tempted to go get a drink. Yeah, I'm here. And then I watched the kids while everybody went after partying and had fun, and like, okay, here I am with the kids. But guess what? I got that opportunity to be with the kids, you know? Yeah. Instead of potting them off on somebody else. And like, do you remember that night? Me? Whoever was there. Remember shit, right? Whoever's kid I have. They probably don't remember that night. I know. But I got to spend that time with the kids, you know. So now, especially with young kids, it's like way easier to stay sober. Also, for that, like, I can't imagine them having to see me drunk. It would be so sad. So heartbreaking. And I'm sorry to my older daughter who had to see it for several years of her life.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

Yeah, it's funny because I just recently started thinking that way about my dogs.

SPEAKER_05 25:32

I'm like, they're sober around me and they love me.

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Like, I they deserve to have me sober. It's like, yeah, it's deeper than that sometimes. You're like, wow, all they want is just to like hang out with me. He just put his little head on my foot. Oh, yeah. They just they're like, Yeah, we just want to hang out with you and do fun stuff. But then if you start drinking, then you can't take them on hikes, and then you're like, What? So I could imagine it's a lot stronger when you have children, but I felt that way about my dogs.

SPEAKER_05 26:06

Yeah. I didn't know when Harley was young that it wasn't normal how we were drinking, because everybody around us was doing it like that, and we kind of grew up like that. And so I just I had no idea it wasn't normal, and so I just like you know, let her be the life of the party with us, and I mean her dad's family drinks like that, our family drinks like that, but I didn't realize like the dark side of it. I just was like, oh, this is great, everybody's together, everybody's having fun, the kids are here, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

Yeah, now I know yeah, it is true, it's very normalized in a lot of our families.

SPEAKER_05 26:53

Yeah, it's normalized and stupid, and so much money. I went all the money from drinking back now.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

I know. How did I even afford that? I don't know. That's the craziest thing, yeah. Because I'm still broke. Spend exponentially less.

SPEAKER_05 27:11

I don't know how I afforded it. Like paying rent, all that. It's crazy. And then I feel like at that time, you know, you think you have all these friends, but it's like, oh no, you were just the person who would buy the beer. So, I mean me, not you. I know. I was just the person who would buy the beer, so I had like these friends, but it's like they never pitched in anything. I was always buying beer, and then so then they were always around me. Yeah. And then I'm like 5'4 and like trying to keep up with like these six, four men. Like, why do I need to do that? You didn't drink. I did keep dumping.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

Don't knock yourself.

SPEAKER_05 27:52

Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_04 27:53

I did keep up.

SPEAKER_05 27:56

Well, and there was a time when we were trying to get sober. Like my husband and I were like, Okay, you're sober. Now I'm relapsing, now you're sober. You know, there was a little bit of overlap where we weren't both totally sober. I remember like he would buy a six-pack, and I would try to chug like four of them to prevent him from drinking.

SPEAKER_06 28:18

Stupid. Yeah. It's like your mind makes no sense on alcohol. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

Yeah. Oh my god. I know, and like Scott and I, we were like even. Like we the difference between him and I, though, is that he he could, I mean, we definitely partied hard together at a lot of points, but he could just have one drink at dinner and leave it unfinished. And then we'd cash, you know, we'd close our tab and leave. And I'd follow it. I would look for the I wouldn't finish drinking the guys next to me, the other guys, I would drink anything that was around. I'm like, you're just gonna leave that? That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 29:13

And then I would like I did that in Mexico one time.

SPEAKER_06 29:16

Just drink drinks off the table. Yeah. They probably weren't even done with their drinks. They're probably just out dancing.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

They're like, you know, go grab your beer, this crazy lady's coming back to drink ours.

SPEAKER_06 29:28

They're not hiding it from Ruby's, they're hiding it from me getting drunk. Yeah. So dangerous, it's not many.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

I know, but then it was like, I would be out drinking. That's right. I would be like out drinking till the bar closes, and then I'd be like, oh, I gotta stop at the 7-Eleven and get more for the for the for the rest of the night.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 29:52

And then you like don't even need that, but then I'm so excessive with it that I would finish that. Like, I you I used to get to a point like in my drunkest state where like I couldn't even get any more drunk than I was. Like, I'm like at my max level, and I'm just wasting the alcohol at that point by drinking it because I'm not gonna feel the effects, I'm just gonna pass out. Yeah, and so then I'm like, you you would have enjoyed just going home and going up to bed and then having that six pack for the next day. But I would just overdrink it, and that was that was always it for me. I just once you start, you just I could not stop.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

That's the worst part, I know, because the first sip is like woo, and that's like what you're chasing the whole time, yeah. But you can never get it back, and like I could literally drink one sip and be fine, but I have to drink a hundred beers.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

I know that's annoying, but it's not like that for everybody. You and I just have that special genetic bond.

unknown 30:57

I know.

SPEAKER_05 30:58

Our other sister, she's understanding because she like we've explained it to her, but she's like, Nope, I don't have that feeling. Nope, I have no idea. And so, like, if you don't have it, you'll genuinely like you just can't understand the pull it has. Like, I did not intend to drink that maybe like you go in, like, yeah, okay, I'll have one, but that sounds stupid. Why would you have one when you can have six? And then why would you have six when you can get a six pack on the way home? It is and keep drinking all night.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

Yeah, it's so similar to any kind of like actual, like drug I say actual, but alcohol is an actual drug.

SPEAKER_05 31:36

It's not the worst one.

SPEAKER_04 31:37

Like a drug addict. Like, that's a the the behavior I had with alcohol was like I'm I should never judge anybody for being hooked on heroin or something like that because I was equally as addicted to alcohol in a lot of ways. Where yeah, like you're sick, so you're going back for more. Like when I think of somebody that does heroin and they're like like dope sick from that, and then they go back and do more. Like, I was doing the same thing with alcohol, and I I should never even judge somebody for that because I was doing the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_05 32:12

No, exactly. Addiction's addiction, like it doesn't matter the substance, like one's not better than another one. But I did think that's worse because it's socially acceptable. Yeah, why? It's so dangerous.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

Well, I think that's there's a little bit of a movement, you can really tell. And like the more you kind of surround yourself with non-drinkers, you're like, wait, there's actually a lot of people out here that are either quitting, trying to quit, cutting back, or whatever it looks like. But yeah, I think everybody has like a love-hate relationship with it. I honestly don't really know anybody except for maybe my husband that has a healthy relationship with alcohol. I think he's, you know, probably because he's gotten it out of his system, but I really feel like yeah, I've I've I don't know anybody that just drinks in a normal way.

SPEAKER_05 33:09

I really don't either. Not a single person. That's really hard. It's really, really hard.

SPEAKER_04 33:16

And even if you think like, oh, I you know, I only drink, I don't know. I just I really don't think I know anyone off the top of my head that drinks in a normal way. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 33:30

No, I was talking to my husband about like way back in the day, like I like like drinking and driving's the worst horrible thing, but like your brain's not in a place where you think it's bad when you're that drunk. Unfortunately, like again, socially acceptable. So you go to party, everybody's drinking, everybody knows you're driving home, but they're still letting you drink, and like it's crazy. Why would you have a party that's not in your own home if you're drinking?

SPEAKER_04 33:56

It's the same thing as bartenders. I don't understand the legality of that, where they can get in trouble if you drive home.

SPEAKER_05 34:06

Like, it was why do bars exist then? Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

And it was my choice to buy the alcohol, and you know, they're giving me something that's gonna loosen me up and make me bad, make I make bad decisions here. Here's your judgment. And so then it's like such a double-edged sword, though. How is that even what a terrible loophole we're in?

SPEAKER_05 34:27

It's it's a cycle for sure. I was thinking how like it wasn't even a thought that at some point it wasn't even a thought that it was bad, it was just like party on wheels. Like, why would we stop drinking just because we're in the car?

SPEAKER_06 34:42

Yeah, road soda.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Road soda.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

Yeah, yeah. I know.

SPEAKER_05 34:50

I don't even think about it.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

But okay, so this is sadly a thought that I had recently is like I used to be so fearful of my friends dying in a drunk driving accident, and more of my friends have died from just alcohol use than a drunk driving accident.

SPEAKER_05 35:09

Well, yeah, that is super scary, but that's because that's like it makes sense because they might not drink and drive frequently. Maybe they do it once and it could kill them, but they're definitely drinking all day every day. So that's like a definite demise, right? You would think.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

For most people. Yeah. Yeah. So tell us more about that. Tell us about some of your friends who have you've lost to alcohol or drugs. Great.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

This is gonna be fun. This is gonna be fun. No, the giggling stops. I know. It's sad, it's super sad. So preventable. It is, but I also feel like I feel like the town we live in is bad luck. And they get breeds alcoholics. I really do. I don't know any of my friends from San Diego that have had quite the level of alcoholism in their friend groups or anything like that. That could be true. Um, it's bad. I think it's just the the culture. Yeah, I think it's the culture.

SPEAKER_05 36:31

I mean, we have a psychop that takes you on a brew, brew crawl, where you go from pub to pub to pub to pub, and there's like what seven on them? That's a guaranteed at least seven beers. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 36:45

Yeah. But I don't know. That's a it's a hard topic just because you never know what else was going on. I mean, there's health concerns that maybe you are unaware that you have, and then you continue drinking. And like I said, it's like doctors sometimes if a doctor tells you like you should never drink again or you'll die, like that's like a really hard pill to swallow. And so maybe they that wouldn't happen to me. And like it actually does happen. And my mom keeps saying, Oh my gosh, these you know, these people, there's they're dying so young. And I'm like, Well, yeah, they are actually.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

I think we're drinking like I mean we're definitely surrounded by more toxins than ever, and then we're drinking like higher potency alcohol, we're drinking it more frequently, it's probably more accessible. I don't know, like stores are open later and just promoting consumerism. I don't know. Yeah, like we did, we lost a lot of people to alcohol. But I can see how when you get the diagnosis, like, how do you you're used to stress coping with alcohol, and then you get the most stressful news of your life, and then so you have to cope with alcohol. How are you gonna just stop then? Like you would think, but you have no other resources because you're used to that method of coping. Yeah. And did they know? Like, d do you know if they knew ahead of time?

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Yeah, that's what I don't I don't really know if it was like a known medical, you know, if it was happening and they kind of dismissed it, or if the or if it was just unknown and they didn't know, you know. I don't really know particularly for some of the cases.

SPEAKER_05 38:52

And there's been many. Yep. I think our first one, the lady I lived with, she I think she was a combo of like depression, drugs, alcohol. She probably didn't mean to, but she drank like we did and probably didn't know what was going on, couldn't feel anything, lost her judgment. I don't know. Yeah. That was the saddest, worst thing, and our daughter had to find her. Yeah. So that sucks. And then you had a friend who was super sick in the hospital, and then she got sober for a minute. Yeah. You don't know how she's doing now?

SPEAKER_04 39:30

Which one? Oh. Yeah, I don't really know. Again, it's like, yeah, you just it's just the addictive part of it that you think, oh, well, you know, I can I can go back to it or something. I'm healed now.

SPEAKER_05 39:52

It happens so much. Like the relapse is so frustrating to me because, like, hello, you had it. You had it in your hand and you let it go. Why? What was so important, you know? I know. That's that freaks me out. And it progresses fast, fast, fast. Yeah. It's scary.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

I think that's why it's just easier for me to just don't do it at all versus the years I tried to like moderate. Like me just being like, nope, nothing at all, is way easier than me saying, Oh, is this acceptable? Okay, did I do too many? Now, you know, and that's just like the mind tricks that I had to navigate.

SPEAKER_05 40:36

Math, gymnastics, you were talking. But it's true, you're like, okay, how many drinks can I have? Okay, like, oh my gosh. Yeah. Um crazy. Yeah. I know, like, when my husband relapsed after 10 years of sobriety. 10 years. Our marriage, like, we didn't get married until after we both sober, we had kids, and then he was getting that FOMO or whatever. Well, it's because it was like one sober friend that he'd been hanging out with the most relapsed, and then so he got just sucked into it. Hard not to, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:14

So that, yeah, that really sucks for him. Like, I feel for him. But like, hello, I'm sober and I'm your friend. Like, I'm right here with you. And then so it's like, oh, well, I just want to have one celebratory beer. That's right. Right. It always starts. It starts with, I'm like, it's never one. That is the spark that starts the wildfire. It's never one. Was it one? No. No, no, no. It was months, several times throughout the couple months. And the last time, it was like nine o'clock in the morning drinking homemade moonshine with somebody he despises. And then came home. And I was like, You what? Like, I thought you just wanted one beer to celebrate. It's like not okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:05

Yeah. Well, and that's why when people say, Oh, just have one, I have to think back. And then like, ever just I've never, since the first day I ever drank alcohol behind the bar at mom at our house, I don't think I have ever had just one. And I don't think I've ever drank alcohol without getting at least a buzz, you know. Like, there's some people that drink alcohol and they're like, I've never actually been drunk, but like I've had a beer, you know, whatever. What? I've never had that. I have always I've always finished off the job. Like I've never just had one. That's why it's so stupid when people are like, you could just have one. No, I I can't. I mean, you can maybe, but I've never had just one unless it was one in front of you.

SPEAKER_06 42:59

It's one in front of you, and then I'll go hide over there and drink another one. See, I did it!

unknown 43:04

I only drank one.

SPEAKER_05 43:06

Yeah. Yeah, it's too hard. And then, like in his case, you know, like he was so well, he's like, Well, I did it. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, we'll see. Okay. And then I was not supportive, you know, I was like, it's never just one. It's never just one. Ever. And it wasn't like, okay, maybe it was just one that day, but that led to a several month relapse.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:29

And it's hard to I don't like to think that those like when you have a slip-up or whatever. Relapse is such an official word. I like to call it a slip up. It's a little softer.

SPEAKER_05 43:41

I'm not softer on his drinking. I'm talking about myself.

SPEAKER_06 43:45

But yeah, so like I mean an oopsie daisy. Yeah, like a little oops. I have a little day. Slipped into a bottle of vodka.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

But anytime I've had one of those, I've never like, it doesn't take a Wave from the sober days. Okay, so that's also it reminds me of something else. Like, you don't you get to keep those, right? You get to keep your sober days. You don't have to start all the way over. But I kind of played that game for a while where I would like, okay, this is it, and then I would go back and drink and whatever. So then at that point, I'm like, okay, you know what? Instead of putting pressure on myself, I'm just gonna mark my calendar. So I would mark my calendar like a red dot every day I did drink, and so then over time I would like look at the calendar and be like, oh, well, I only drank four times this month.

SPEAKER_05 44:42

Yeah, and math gymnastics.

SPEAKER_04 44:45

It was a good visual tool because like some months I'm like, oh my gosh, that's a lot of red dots, but then other times it wasn't, and so it just was easier for me instead of like counting the days, and then every time you drink, you'd be like, dang it, I broke my streak, you know. I was just like kind of going off of like, okay, I have only drank this many times this month. I felt like that was kind of a nice tool in the beginning, more so I wasn't ready to fully quit, but I wanted to cut back, and so that was a way that I could visually try to cut back, obviously. Like there's a transition you have to go through, also medically, because you could die if you try to withdraw if you're like deep into it, you know. For sure. And I so I I definitely enough alcohol because not the way we drink.

SPEAKER_05 45:41

Well, I was hard.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

I was just a binge drinker, so like I didn't necessarily drink every day, but when I would drink, it would be heavily right. But if you're like an everyday drinker, you should definitely be careful when you wean off.

SPEAKER_05 45:59

Which is hard because if you're a daily drinker, you're addicted and you can't wean, obviously. So you need to seek medical attention for that, seriously. Yeah. I had a friend whose dad died of that, and yeah, and it sucks. You do need medical attention.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

And that's really sad because they are like trying to do the thing, yeah. And then they're then they you know die from doing the thing. Yeah. So either way, it's just not a good situation.

SPEAKER_05 46:30

No, just drink water. Zevia. Brought to you by Zevia. You're welcome to sponsor the show if you want.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Yeah, that's Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:43

So, okay, so yeah, I know you, I know how you feel about you don't lose your sober date, and most people would disagree with you, huh? That's very controversial. But I see what you're saying. Like, okay, so like if he yeah, like, you know, my husband should I say, like, he's been sober for a couple months when indeed he's been sober for 10 years, but he had a few months break. And that's just hard to explain. It is hard to explain.

SPEAKER_04 47:09

So and that's why I was embarrassed to even share that I'm sober until I really knew it was gonna be like official. And you know, you're just and that's like accountability too. But yeah, it's like, oh, once you put it out there, and then you're like, Well, I I've only drank four times this year, you know, like yeah, people don't it doesn't hold as much credit, I feel like exactly.

SPEAKER_05 47:35

That's the thing. Yeah, but 10 years doesn't it does count that time counted, it doesn't really count, it counted, but now he's starting the clock over. I disagree. You think he's been sober for like 11 years now? Yeah, he's been sober for 11 years. He had a little slip up. It caused a lot of havoc in my life.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

It's a it's a problem, but I try to, I don't know. I I try to keep it positive. It's tricky.

SPEAKER_05 48:05

Well, you do, and then so on the like receiving end of it, like, is it about me? Yeah, it's about me when he drinks, right? Like we did this thing and built this life together, and he's like, What you know? I try to channel my inner scot. Catherine's husband is so he's wonderful, wonderful and supportive, and he'll call her out in like a way that doesn't make her feel bad. Whereas I get so mad, I get so mad, and that's like I don't know. Yeah, is that just as bad? He's like, This reaction's just as bad as my drinking, and I'm like, but your drinking sparked this reaction, it's your fault.

SPEAKER_04 48:42

I know, and Scott is good for that. I don't know what makes him that way, but he's he internalizes a lot of stuff, and he doesn't really like explode, he's very non-judgmental too. I think he uh really allows people to like figure it out on their own almost, but since I am his wife, you know, him being honest with me about parts of my drinking was life-changing for me, you know.

SPEAKER_05 49:14

And he probably listened and r uh received it because of how he approached it. That too. You know, any credibility that I had went out the door because of how I reacted, I think. But I guess I feel like this burden, like, well, if I act like I'm calm, then it's like giving him the green light that it's okay. I know. And it's so weird on the sober end. Like, yeah, I got sober, I've been through all the problems myself, I know how hard it is. But now that I'm on this side of it, I'm like, how dare you let your disease control your life, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:57

Yeah, it's hard. And it it's like they say like it cycles too. Like you could be in the very beginning, they always say it's like the the rose-colored glasses, everything's like, oh, it feels so good, I'm not hungover, and then and then you have to navigate like your first everything. So like your first holidays, your first like grieving process, like all those things can be triggering, and then sometimes in just life in general, you like you change, and you're like, oh, you know, maybe I don't want this part of it. But it's hard.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

It's hard to it's a really hard life to live for sure. And then forever, it took me a long time to get over the like, oh my gosh, every time he goes out, he's gonna drink like paranoia and like anxiety attacks whenever he goes out, and it took a long time. I wonder if Scott feels that way about me.

SPEAKER_04 50:59

Because I just I go out, so if I'm like, oh, I'm at the tavern, he I wonder, I don't think he worries about it, but I I always wonder if he wonders about it where he's like, I won't, you know, but he would be able to tell. I wasn't fooling anyone. I thought I was all these years. I thought I I was tricking him, but now he knew.

SPEAKER_05 51:21

He's really good. I need to just probably call him when I'm in a crisis mode. Yeah, for anything. Like, how do I respond to this?

SPEAKER_04 51:29

Yeah, yeah, he's very good in that way.

SPEAKER_05 51:32

He is good, but hopefully that's all in our past again, huh honey? He's coming around. No, he doesn't listen. He say whatever you want. I know. Uh yeah. I think that is in the past, and like as it's gotten farther away, you know, immediately after, like in the actual immediate, like after the alcohol wears off, like 4 a.m. or whatever, he's like, Oh my gosh, what have I done? You know? And I'm so sorry. And then like a week goes by and that amnesia kicks in, and he's like, Oh, it's not that bad, is it? Like, you know, but then more time goes by, and he's like, Oh my gosh, I really slipped. Not only did I drink, then I was like eating the candy up there and like the junk food and like the chicken strips, like stuff we don't eat normally. And so it was like multifaceted, you know, like there's way more to it like than just alcohol. It's like poor decision making, you know, self-sabotage too.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

You're like, I already screwed up, I might as well go a little further with it, you know. I know, yeah, there's a lot of that too.

SPEAKER_05 52:44

I know, but it is good the further he gets, he's like, okay, that was really, really dumb. Like that.

SPEAKER_04 52:53

Yeah. I know. I'm still there's still things that pop up that I probably pushed down with alcohol, just that I was shameful of or whatever. And then you like, and then it like constantly things are always popping up. You're like, oh man, I thought I thought I removed that one from my mind.

SPEAKER_05 53:15

It's funny, so you never did like AA or anything, but you're you say stuff like that, and like you're going through the same steps that they you know, you're doing it anyway to heal. You're really good about that. Like you don't even know what they are, but stuff like that, like you're removing your cam your character flaw. I cannot speak today. You're removing your character flaws, and that's one of the steps.

SPEAKER_04 53:40

Yeah, and you do get the feeling, like the urge to apologize to people. Like, I feel that so strongly all the time. And I'm like, how do you even approach it? And like, do they even care? Like, there's so many embarrassing things that I would do, and I'm like, I yeah, I wish. I mean, there's no way I can take it back, but I do wish there was a way of like apologizing. But then I'm like, is it like my ego that I want to apologize? So I just haven't. So sorry, guys, to anybody. Sorry, all of you. Umbrella, sorry, probably not gonna get an apology. Because yeah, it's like, is it my ego that I want to apologize, or is it the shame, or will they care? Do they know?

SPEAKER_05 54:27

Sometimes, I mean, I think you take it situation by situation, right? Like if you stole money, like you should repay it. You know, if you feel like that person, you're just rubbing salt in the wound, then leave it be, you know. I had this girl, I used to work with her, right? Like, she was one of my clients, and I would just take her out like shopping or whatever she wanted to do. She was an autistic girl, and we would go out like twice a week or whatever it was for a while, and then I just kind of I quit my job through the agency, but I never really told her by. I just kind of disappeared. Yeah. And then so when I got sober, I was like thinking about it, thinking about it, and like because after that, like I did get a letter from her mom saying, like, what's going on? Oh, you know, you're really important to her. And I like kept that letter for a long time, but I was like the shame. I was just like, Oh my gosh, I just like disappeared on her. I treated her like a job, not a friend, you know. And so finally, when I got sober, I wrote her a letter and I said, I'm sorry, I got sick for a while, and I didn't mean to leave you hanging like that, you know. So I apologized to her. I didn't obviously need to tell her the entire story, but I just told her I was sick and that I was still thinking about her and cared about her. Yeah, that was nice. Yeah, yeah. But I pondered over that one for a long time. Like, how am I gonna do this? And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Yeah, there's a few jobs there that I probably should have apologized. But you know, it's fine. I'm sure they knew. Again, you'd think you're hiding something, but I'm sure they knew.

SPEAKER_04 56:11

I mean, I never did anything too crazy, but one time I've I got day drunk and fell on my face in the ice. I was walking with my hands in my pockets, fell smart, broke my glasses, busted my eye, and lied to everybody, told them like, oh, I just ran into a door, you know, like so stupid. And I could have just said I fell on the ice.

SPEAKER_05 56:38

I know. Like when you didn't run into a door?

SPEAKER_04 56:41

No, I never ran into the door.

SPEAKER_05 56:42

Oh my gosh. Oh, you didn't know that.

SPEAKER_04 56:45

No, I just fell walking home from the both equally as stupid.

SPEAKER_05 56:49

Yeah. But the ice is actually less stupid because that happens.

SPEAKER_04 56:55

Like, I it's funny now looking back, but I literally didn't know that I busted my face until I got home and like used the bathroom later in the day, you know, like an hour or so, and I like go into the bathroom and I see in the mirror. My glasses were missing a lens, and my I had blood dripping down my face, and I didn't even know. You were walking around like I was walking around, I probably looked like a zombie. People were like, nobody stopped.

SPEAKER_05 57:26

Like, that was so crazy. That was so bad. That was like a God sign, though, because you were supposed to pick up my daughter that day. Who knows if you would have? No, there's no chance.

SPEAKER_04 57:36

There's no chance. I was nine night by 11 a.m.

SPEAKER_05 57:40

Yeah, but good thing you fell, because that made it like for sure you did not. Oh yeah. No, that's how it is. That's how alcohol I like. I don't blame you. Like, that's just the stupid alcohol.

SPEAKER_04 57:50

Yeah, stupid. I but yeah, and then like, you know, I go to work and my poor boss is like, what that looks like an injury, you know. I just I'm required to report certain things. Like, it looks like it could have been like you basically was asking me if I was in a domestic abuse situation. Oh yeah. And I was too ashamed to be like, no, I'm just a drunk. Like, I but you slipped on the ice too. That's a totally reasonable thing, and you concocted this whole plan because that's how the brain works. Yeah, I know. I know. Well, and I low key forgot. Like, I got flashbacks after I sobered up and was like, oh, that's exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_05 58:34

There's a bloody patch on the ice.

SPEAKER_04 58:35

Yeah, I mean, at least that's what I think what happened. Maybe I got hit by a car or something. I don't know. But then there was another time too where, like, yeah, I mean, I was definitely a sloppy drinker too. Like, I would drink and then just like like I thought it was fun to like fall, you know, like whatever. Oh, I'm so silly. But I like I remember crossing a crosswalk one time and I fell, and I basically was belly flopped in the middle of a crossroad, crosswalk on like a busy road and couldn't physically get back home. And cars were like stopping, and they were like, Are you okay? And I'm like, Oh, like couldn't even speak, and just belly flopped on the road. Like, could you imagine if that's how I went out? Got hit by a car in a crosswalk because I was too drunk to stand back in the does that happen to that homeless guy like a while back.

SPEAKER_05 59:32

Yeah, I ran over and then run over again because they're just like laying in the crosswalk.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

Yeah. I mean, when that is, I mean, it was definitely and you're like, oh, I mean, at least I was just walking home. But then it's like the walk home is so dangerous, and I would feel so bad if somebody did hit me, and then they have to live with that, you know. So, like, even though you're like, I'm not driving, I'm safe. It you're not safe. No, not the way I was walking home.

SPEAKER_05 59:58

No, you could walk out into traffic, well, lay down in front of traffic. Or the guy that how did nobody save you?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:05

They pulled over. I probably eventually got up. Well you out of the road. Yeah, probably. I literally was belly flopped. I could not, like, you know, when your legs and your body just don't function, I could not physically get up.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:19

I could I was flopping around like a dead fish. Like, I could not get up. I remember crawling around my college dorm, like same thing. Like, I can't stand and I was like crawling around, and they're like, Are you okay?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:30

And I was like, Yeah, I'm great, crawling, like, yeah, and didn't realize my drinking was not normal because everybody was hardly ever clear, but I was the only one crawling.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:42

I was like college, yeah. Yeah, I know. I was just I was just sloppy, but that was like the where I wanted to get. Like I wanted to get that drunk.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:58

Yeah, that's not weird.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

That's how like my brain was like, oh, we gotta get like there was like that was the the end goal for some reason, which is crazy. Like, no wonder I ended up starting drinking alone at home because it was safer. I wouldn't fall on a crosswalk, I could just fall in my own house, like whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:22

This is too bad now. Let's get as drunk as we can.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:26

I mean, I'm hungry without alcohol, so it was never really a good combination.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:32

No, probably not. How did you feel like at the baseball game when it was like cheer for beer?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Cheer for beer.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:43

Oh, and then they're like, what's more Merkin than a hot dog and a beer? And I'm like, ugh, like you feel unpatriotic if you don't drink and eat their hot dogs. I don't feel patriotic, anyways. Our dad sung the national anthem. You didn't feel a little patriotic.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

Yeah, I did at that moment. I followed true until the cheap beer sign came out. I know. I it is so stupid. It's very frat boy, you know. Like, I saw this guy driving a big old truck, and on the back sticker, it had a twisted tea sticker. And I'm like, on your track, you have a twisted tee? Like, I was just like, that's really silly. I'm trying to think if I ever represented a type of alcohol like strongly enough to have a bumper sticker.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:33

I'm pretty sure we had like a corona shirt or something. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:40

That that is kind of a funny thing. Um or remember like when you used to save bottles and decorate your house with empty liquor bottles, even though they're like cheap plastic liquor bottles? Anything like with the paraphernalia looked cool, I guess. But I don't know. The baseball, like it is, it's silly to cheers for more beer. Cheap beer is what the cheer was.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:06

Yeah. What should we have cheersed instead? Uh USA? It was the 4th of July on 250th birthday, and we're cheering for beer. I'm like, okay, Homer Simpsons.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:20

It's like a bunch of beer bellied Homer Simpsons in the crowd. Yeah. It's annoying that that's like linked with the marriage. It's so deep. It's very shallow. So shallow.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:32

It's all very shallow.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:34

Hot dogs. And then my husband gets like the FOMO, and he's like, well. So he got a hot dog. So I got him a hot dog for sure. Because it's what you do on 4th of July.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:45

It's hard, and it's hard. We're stuck in this cycle. And then we're like, I don't want to say approaching yet, but like I had to do my schedule for fall, and I was going to take off Halloween because I love Halloween. And then I'm like, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do that after all. We're just gonna celebrate. We'll go to the pumpkin patch or something, but like we're gonna go door to door and ask for candy that I'm just gonna throw away. Yeah. Like I'm not into it. So haunted house would be better. We'll do something fun, but I don't feel like I need to do that anymore. Cause it's like the sobriety is it's a blessing and a curse. Your life gets so much better, but you're cursed with like the knowledge, like you've stepped into a higher frequency than the people who are still stuck in the candy and beer zone. That's why that book by Anna Grace.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:37

What's it called? I have it over on the shelf over there. Let me think about that. Not the one we just did for our book club. No, that was horrible. No, Anna Grace, it's a really she the first chapter she says, you don't have to be sober to read this book, but it will change your mind by the end of it. And it it didn't, I mean, I read it the first time I got you know sober-ish or whatever. And it just it tells you it debunks all of the things we believe in. Like, oh, liquid courage, you know. She explains that liquid courage actually it makes your self-esteem go down over time. Yeah, what we think, oh, liquid courage, we're gonna drink, and then I'll feel more outgoing or whatever. It actually does quite the opposite, and it it just so then one chapter was about, you know, all stuff like that, and how to make in mind, yes, okay. Yeah, that's a great book. That one, all right, it really did open my eyes to things because you're reading it, and then you find out that all these things we thought about alcohol were true or not true at all, and then it It is hard to go back to drinking the same way you did when you have all of this information in front of you, and you're like, oh wow, that's yeah, I can't unlearn it. Unfortunately, I've wanted to in the past to unlearn all that stuff, but you just you can't unlearn it what you what you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:17

No, and especially like when you're actually watching people around, like you're out of the bubble and you're watching the people like doing the same thing, making the same dumb choices, like to step out of that and like just to go back in and be like, oh, okay, I'm back, ha ha, just kidding. Yeah. Could you imagine? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

Because I did it a few times. And then you're like going against part of what your own your own wisdom, you know. Yes. And that feels really contradiction, contradicting. Going against what you what you know in in your heart.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:57

I felt like such a hypocrite yesterday when I got like the stupid candy for the pinata. And like immediately I was gathering it and tossing it all in the trash. But it's like, okay, I still what I spent the money, gave it to that industry just so I could like have it fly around and then throw it away. But it's like I couldn't imagine like it would be the same thing drinking. Like, okay, I've been preaching sobriety for this long, and now all of a sudden I'm drinking. Like, I yeah, like there's certain things I do. That's why I'm so open about it. Because I I do want the world to hold me accountable.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:31

I do too. Yeah, I'm to that point now where I'm like, oh, I've gone too far to go back to it. And I've seen what happens when you go back to it. I've also seen what happens when you continue to drink for long periods of time. Like, I don't think that's it's not worth it. Yeah, it'd have to be, and that's the thing, like if you like I yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:04

I would not go back to it. Good. That's good. So what are some like daily rituals that you do to maintain that sobriety?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:13

I it doesn't even cross my mind a lot. It really doesn't. I thought that like every day in the beginning you think about it and then you're like, I have to find something to distract myself. I shop a lot. But filling up my cart online is way better than going to the liquor store. Yeah. No, I yeah, there's certain things I've replaced it with, but that does like the daily thought of oh my gosh, like what am I gonna do with myself? That goes away qu at least it went away quicker for me this time around. Probably again, because this has been a few years coming. Oh yeah. But I yeah, uh in the beginning, you think about it every single day, multiple times a day. You have like physical triggers where you're like, your body, you can feel a sensation where you're like, I need to go have a drink. And I there can be days a full week that goes by before I even think about it. I have beer in my fridge. You do? I have a beer in my fridge. I have never even I have a liquor cabinet with wine up there. We don't even touch it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:32

Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:33

It's because it's stupid. I mean, it's nice, thanks to my friends, but when they come over for a party, you know, like they bring alcohol, and I'm again, you know, what my husband, if he wants to drink, he can drink. And so then when they bring out, so then I'm like, well, I'm not gonna drink it. So then we just stash in the cabinet and it stays there forever. So you can offer it to them next time they're gonna be able to do it. Yeah, when they come back over, I bring it back out.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:00

Could you look some if you were like, I'm just gonna have that one beer, and then all of a sudden you're drinking all the wine and everything in the whole liquor cabinet.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:07

It would be like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:08

It would be like that for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:09

It yeah, it definitely would be like that. Oh my god. But it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't, I don't think about it anymore.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:17

Did you notice like last night we had that barbecue for Harley's birthday party? One person brought his own beer. Oh my gosh, it actually looked really good. It was like a modello. It was a red beer. A red beer watermelon. Oh, wow. Watermelon Michelada. It looks so good. We can make a virgin one. I know we will. He was just quiet about it. He just drank it, like nobody said anything. But instead of bringing beer, now everybody's bringing cakes and pies and sugars. And I'm like, I don't just bring bringing water. I brought sugar-free pine. You did such a good job. It's just so funny. Like, they have to bring something and it has to be like unhealthy. Yeah, well, that's that's not that I'm not grateful. Like, I'm very grateful for everybody wanting to participate, you know, and like it all got eaten, no worries. Yeah, but it is funny, and like I did that when I got sober. I replaced it. Okay, at first I drank NA bears, and then I went to kombucha, and then I like totally replaced it with sugar, but I was still doing like the alcoholic behaviors. Like, okay, I'm gonna go get a scone. Okay, I'm just gonna get two scones. Okay, I'm gonna get like four scones because I only have two for tomorrow, but now I'm gonna eat all four today because I can't not. I know, and I still do a little bit of that, not with the scones because now I'm not even, but like it creeps. Okay, it's like creeping up now.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

Yeah, the way I consume drinks is I mean, like I I still chug soda or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:44

You had a cooler full and you drank several drinks last night. I brought three.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:49

Yeah. I was there for three hours. That's a drink an hour. I mean, but you were make sure you made sure to bring your own drinks because you wanted you had to have something besides like water, whatever I had to provide. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:03

Yeah, and then so that's like that's one of those things where I definitely, yeah, I'm I'm constantly drinking and drinking. I need to have something to drink.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:12

Yeah. Which is, and I don't know, it's fine, it's fine. Yeah, it's not bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:16

I don't know if that will go away anytime soon, but that's okay. I'm staying hydrated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:22

Kind of with diet coke. I know. And that's why I switched to decaf and coffee. Because I'm like, I probably shouldn't drink 800 milligrams of coffee a day. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I'm doing the decaf because I drink coffee alcoholically. Whatever. I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:41

I'm okay with that. Yeah. That's just it's a personality trait at this point for me. I don't know how it how can I really train that? Because I'm trying to think in other ways for what I just really want to get addicted to exercise.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:58

It's really hard. Come on, it's so hard. I've never been addicted to exercise. I know. Like, come on. Why does it gotta be like alcohol and then sugar and like all the bad stuff? Because it's easy, easier.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:13

Yeah, but it is possible. You just gotta people are.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:17

I see like those people running in the ice with their yak tracks on when it's 30 degrees out, and I'm like, Or in the heat it's like 90 degrees out, and they're out there running. Yeah, that's I think that's addiction. Yeah, I don't want to be that addicted. I wanna be I just want to exercise. Yeah, I just gotta do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:37

Yeah, it's hard to train re train your brain into not being over excessive. Because I even like like I said, with the shopping, I can't go get groceries without stopping at the thrift store.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:51

I can't go to work without stopping at natural groceries. Yeah, I like am in there every single day.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:59

I don't need anything. I need nothing, but the thrill of buying it is fixing some part of my addictive behavior. I know, yeah, and that can get dangerous. That's why people get addicted to gambling, like all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:15

I know. And then the AA people will tell you that's why you have to go through steps because you're fixing like these are symptoms of uh something going on with you, so we have something. But I don't know if that's true. I feel fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:29

I don't think that's true either. I literally think it's a genetic, like I think it developed in me. I don't know if that came genetically because of my ancestors, but I think honestly, something developed. Well, I do believe that alcohol is progressive because when I started drinking at like 20, or like I mean, we dabbled in it when we were like teenagers, but like when I when I was drinking when I first turned 21, like I kind of drank like a normal 21-year-old, like in a lot of ways, but then by the time I turned 30, I was a mess. So I'm like, how was I more mature drinking at 21 than I am now? You know, it's progressive because I really felt like it was progressive, and and I feel like because I got away with stuff for so long that I just I kept getting away with it, so I it never I never had any like repercussion, no consequences, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:29

I got blacked out drunk the first time I drank like in Ireland. My parents sent me there because I was hanging out with the bad crowd, and then I started drinking in Ireland. Oh my gosh. I know, and then I came back and I was like, but I like I don't feel like it is like I it was problematic drinking, but at the same time everybody else was drinking the same way. So I don't really know it was wrong, and then the blacked out stuff I didn't remember, so I didn't know I was doing that. So I just thought it was drinking and having fun with everybody.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:59

Well, and the blacking out is so scary, and I read something one time that there's something that happens to your brain when you black out that it makes you more susceptible to blacking out in the future, and towards the end, I felt like I wasn't drinking enough alcohol worthy enough of a blackout, but I'd still black out, and it was happening all the time, and I'm like like it, my brain was just starting to shut off, and I'd be like, I I really would have to like calculate how much I drank last night, and I'm like, it really wasn't worthy of blacking out parts of the night. How do I not remember? And that's just terrifying. Also, this is really embarrassing. I thought about this recently. I lied to an ex-boyfriend. This is deep shit. I've never even told you. I lied to an ex-boyfriend, and I told him because I had blacked out one night and made a fool of myself, and I had told him that I mixed it with pills. I've never mixed anything with pills, I've never even been into pills ever in my life. You just told me so embarrassed about the drinking because it made more sense to be blacked out from mixture of alcohol and pills than it did to just be drunk. That's some deep shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:23

That's the gymnastics that goes on in your head.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:25

It's so crazy. So I lied to him and I was like, oh, I'm so embarrassed. I was like, I took some pills last night. So now he thinks I'm like some pill taker. I've never taken a pill in my entire life. And he wow, yeah. So then, and like, but that it was in my head, it made more sense for me to be blacked out off of Xanax and alcohol than it did to just be a dumb blackout drunk. I could see that happening. Isn't that nuts? And that's the kind of thing I've never I want to admit that to him, but that's just my ego, right? Like, he's gonna be like, I don't care at all. Leave me alone, delete my phone number, please. But for me, I'm like, I wish I could explain to him. Like, I was just I lied to you then too. I was just a really bad drunk.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:18

Yeah, I think maybe that one is a little ego. Like, that won't do him any no, he won't be better for knowing that.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:24

No, he's like, wow, you're just even sadder. Sad girl.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:31

You still think about that? I never gave it two thoughts. I was also on pills and alcohol.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:36

Yeah, totally. But for me, that made a more it was more acceptable. So yeah, that kind of thing. I I'm not crazy.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:48

That's so nuts. Yeah, but it's totally understandable because that's how much your mind gets warped on alcohol. Yeah, it's so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:56

But yeah, the blacking out, like if you're a blackout drinker, it's so dangerous and it just becomes more and more yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:03

I think your liver has hard harder and harder time processing the alcohol.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:07

So it's yeah, it said it does something to your brain where you just like it automatically since you've reached that like turnoff point, it like turns off quicker the more you do it. It's like, oh, this is what we're doing. Okay, I know this. But then that was kind of the goal for my drinking a lot, was like I wanted to black out. Like, I don't know, I didn't physically want to, but like that was like the I had to get there somehow.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:36

Yeah. Isn't that weird? I didn't want to, I didn't like blacking out. I did not want to black out, but I wanted a drink until you blacked out.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:49

Yeah, yeah. I never wanted to, and then it's like, yeah, it's so dangerous too. And you know, you kind of have to like you're piecing things together, and then you can't really be uh yeah, there's like so much that was like yeah, probably one of the worst times was just like all the destruction that was happening during that time where I didn't have I was on autopilot. Yeah. I know, yeah, and dangerously, like when you are an expert level as I was, people don't know that you're blacked out, so then they think you're just like you're good, and they think you're on the same level as them, and really you're so far gone, and like that gets complicated too, you know. Yeah, and I've been the on the other side of that too, where I'm like, you don't remember last night? Last night was so fun, and that's like so frustrating because you're like, What you don't remember anything, but then I became that person too, so it's a it you know, we all get there at some point.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:04

Yeah, I know, but it's super scary. And like where's your consciousness at that time? Like, is it like you don't dream?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:16

No, you don't do anything, your brain's mush.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:18

Yeah, so like is your consciousness like just floating there? Like, are you trying to kill me? You know, that's weird. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:27

Yeah, that's really bad. Sleep. Paralysis demon comes out.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:32

Tell us one of your sleep paralysis, the scariest one.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:37

I also always yell your name. No, I don't know what it is. Uh well the the sleep paralysis, they always say it looks very similar. If you look up like images that people have made of a sleep paralysis demon, they all look similar. But mine was like I was black, black like a black trash bag, and it had long black fingers, and that's kind of all I remember. But it would just be this like masculine black fingered demon sitting on your chest, and you can't move, and you know where you are, you know what's happening, you're trying to like fight, but you can't because you're frozen. But then it's also very confusing because you don't know if it's like real life or not, and so then you're trying to yell, and I would just what I thought was me yelling is really me going and like you can't speak or anything, and so then finally you get one good Jolene, you know, and and then hopefully you're with somebody that can fully wake you up or be there to support you when you do finally get up. And but yeah, I don't the sleep paralysis never there's not like one in particular I remember. It was the Patty one.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:05

What about Patty?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:06

She wasn't that was more of a terror, she wasn't really Patsy, Patsy, but she was after drinking too. Oh yeah, yeah, Patsy's she's been around. Patsy, that's a fun story, I'll tell you. So I had a dream one night that I discovered that there was an a spare bedroom inside of our greenhouse, and there was a singular, like single mattress bed in there, and I remember being upset with Scott and being like, what the heck? Why didn't you tell me that there's a spare room in the greenhouse? And so I laid down in there one day to take a nap, and this girl, and she was her finger, her hand, she was all black, and she was wearing a beige dress, and she had long, like she looked like the girl from the ring, Samara or whatever her name was. And she started she started at my feet and she started crawling up my body, and she was patting me with her hands up my body, and she finally gets like above up to my face. So I kind of felt like maybe it could have been a form of a sleep paralysis, but it was more that was just a bad dream. And she would get right up to my face with her long hair, and so I was I'm flailing in my sleep trying to get away from this creepy woman, and and then I I wake up my husband, and he is so funny and witty and quick, and this is like three o'clock in the morning, and I wake him up. Oh, I just had the worst dream ever. Oh my gosh, I can't believe it. And I said, There was a there was a girl, and she was in the greenhouse, and he said, Oh, so you met my daughter, and I'm like, What are you talking about? And it was so creepy, and he goes, Yeah, and I said, She was like, she was all black and she was crawling up my body, and he said, Oh, she's she was black because she's never had a bath before. And I'm like, What the hell is your problem? What are you talking about? And then I said, She was patting me with her hands, and it was so creepy, and he said, Ah, Patsy.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:34

That almost sounds like part of the dream. He thought you woke up and he goes, What a weird thing for him to say.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:40

Oh, he went on and he's laughing. And then he said, Patsy, and he goes, careful, patty cakes will get you. And and I just we can laugh about it now, but I'm like, that was not the way you should handle sleep analysis dream. But it makes for a funny story. Oh, that's so creepy.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:02

That's enough to keep you sober, though. Not having the dreams, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:07

It's clockwork. And the last couple times that I did drink, I would have them, and I'm like, it's unbelievable. And then I haven't had a single one since.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:17

But we were just saying how you don't dream when you're blacked out, but you have those demons sitting on you when you're blacked out.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:25

I dream when I would black out. You did? Oh yeah. Oh, or maybe not blackout, but I I've always I actually dream less now. Weird. Yeah, I know. That does seem weird to me.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:39

I've been trying to figure out that out, but I dream You can't remember what you did the night before you, but you remember your dreams.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:45

Yeah. Sometimes weird. Yeah, because it's like your brain is, I don't know. Dreams are so bizarre.

unknown 1:26:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:56

Yeah, but I never like some of those dream premonitions that I've had. I wouldn't have had those. That's why I like the dreams I do have nowadays are very, they're more clear and meaningful, or you know, they actually have message behind them versus when I would have, yeah, just yeah, scattered and chaotic, yeah, and terrifying.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:24

That sounds scary. Mm-hmm. That sounds so scary. Well, yay for sobriety and sober dreams and sober living. And sorry for your recent loss of your friend to alcoholism. That really really sucks. Yeah. Really sucks. It does really suck.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:43

I know. You never it's just a shocker. It's like you can't comprehend that it would happen to somebody so young, too. I know. I know. Yeah. It's cool though that the like there is a shift and I like I said it's like you've I've noticed myself when you're like oh yeah I don't drink anymore they're like oh I don't drink either oh yeah I don't drink either and like that's kind of cool to see that coming forward plus like the younger generation is like Harley's age like they don't they're not interested in drinking like we did I know I know it's really refreshing I mean they're doing other stuff doing other stupid stuff they're not they're not doing the dumb dumb ride that we did for so long I'm uh it's unfortunate it took me so long to learn but I'm glad I finally did yeah it's cool I met a guy over the summer and he he there was a group and everybody was talking about you know their struggles with alcohol and he said yeah I've been sober for 36 years and I'm like you're still counting that's crazy like how did he know off I mean maybe he's just really good at math but he's like how did he know off the top of his head that it was 36 years like that's a long time and I remember actually meeting a guy years ago when I was drinking and he was this old guy and he would come to these shows one of the bars would have live music like every week and he would come to these shows and he would dance with us and he like would teach us how to swing or whatever and he was old and he said I've been sober for like forever like 60 years or something like that. Oh my god and and same thing to him I'm like oh my gosh or like I met a couple residents and I opened up to one of them and I said yeah I don't you know I don't drink anymore and he said yeah I I never really got into it either it it made me lose control and he was kind of a structured man and he always you know being out of control wasn't for him and and I always thought like wow how interesting to have like made that decision in his 20s to say oh yeah like I I it made me lose control and to like have that thought of like I'm not gonna do it anymore. I just I just felt like even the nights that I didn't like it I'm like determined to make this work almost isn't that weird yeah no it's not weird it's totally normal. I'm like oh I well everybody else can do it like I I can figure this out like I was determined to be able to continue to do it even though yeah and I that was the part of the alcohol that I did like was losing control. But I also when they talk to you about like getting sober oh you've got some deep trauma and stuff yeah sure I'm we all have trauma but like I've done a lot of internal work and I still don't know what drove me to start drinking in the first place. I don't think it was anything in particular I think you continue to drink because you've got some shame from stuff but there's for me personally I don't remember or I haven't maybe I haven't worked through that yet where I figured out like why why I started drinking I think it was just the progression that it was normalized it was fun and then your body gets kind of hooked on it.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:32

I think so too for me like yeah there was not like one trauma and I was like oh I'm gonna drink it was just like it's around yeah all my friends are doing it I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:42

Yep yeah do you think your quality of friends has shifted since you stopped drinking I don't have friends there you go don't have any the friends I do have actually it's really cool because well I'm trying to meet everybody where they are and that's like a hard pill to swallow but yeah because you know it's like nobody wants to hang out with somebody that's sober and then being although it is really ironic because I will be sober and I will go and hang out with people that are not sober and then they always are asking me about being sober and I'm like this is not the time to talk about this. We're at the bar drinking like why do you want to talk to me about me being sober like come on I'll just pretend let's just move on from this you know but that does come up but my friendships again I think that's the shift that I'm seeing a lot of my friends are getting sober and so whether you know like we can we can all kind of connect like some of I guess like yeah some of my friends are oh yeah well we we've cut back a lot too and like we used to all drink together and now none of us drink so it is kind of interesting to see yeah like the last party we had two of the five people there brought NA beers for themselves and I'm like oh see like that felt like wow we're all getting kind of aligned in the right place not that I really don't I care in the long run but like if you can be a normal drinker I don't really care that you're drinking but but yeah it is like a really nice refreshing feeling to like have somebody come over with NA beers and you know yeah and I my goal is to kind of just like when I do socialize or I go to a concert or something like I want to blend in. Like I will ask the bartender for like a kombucha in a glass because I want to just I don't want people to ask questions. I don't want them to you know nobody's paying attention anyway so nobody cares.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:57

Yeah I always thought they would like what are you drinking nobody cares I'm sure you're gonna Shirley Temple they don't care I guess it depends on your friends because Dylan's friends are like very very observant of that observant like you have to drink man come on you gotta drink like they really they'll like even like buy it and buy a mistake dinner and like try to lure him into it I'm like why do you care that means like you're uncomfortable with your own drinking that's what it is yeah yeah or they it have they feel like the need to explain to you like well I haven't drank in a long time but they have a drink in their hand and I'm like I didn't really ever drink yeah I didn't ask I don't care you know they're like oh yeah I'm I'm just having one tonight I haven't had a one in a while I'm like I don't I didn't ask at all I don't care weird how I bump into the rare occasion that you drink.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:53

I know and that's that's very common I get that one a lot but yeah and when people are trying to encourage you to drink yeah I think it's to take the the shock after you but like your excuse for not drinking should be fine being like I have to drive to Le Pine.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:18

Yeah but you still want me to drink they don't honor that they don't care especially because they're already a few beers in they're driving back too well I have to drive too well then you should stop drinking yeah we neither of us should be drinking yeah that should be enough it's really sad he has like one friend who's so deep like he his brother died I think it was it was something related to drugs and at that point he was like so heartbroken he's like I'm gonna get my stuff together I'm not gonna drink and he was sober for like a minute and then his dad died and he started drinking again and now he's like got this mom with dementia and he's just like drinking his life away and he's like he went through like they were like pretty wealthy and he went through all their money and he was just telling them how he's like a million dollars in debt now and I'm like that happened really freaking quick like because you're just drinking and being dumb and you don't know like what you're doing I don't know it really sucks because his parents you know left him so much and it was like work like assets and stuff to take care of and he couldn't get his head together to do it and he like is not honoring his brother like he said he was after and just like his other friend who like his dad was sober his entire life all he wanted for his sons was to be sober and healthy.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:47

Yeah and then he like I don't think you're honoring your parent by not being your best self if you're drinking you're not being your best self you're just not yeah well and that's kind of the fuel that has to keep you like with my recent friend that passed you know I'm like okay well even though we all like to party together I feel like I feel like he would have wanted to be sober and he tried did he try oh yeah he tried for years and so I feel like in honor of him like yeah I could go out and have one of his favorite beers and like have some camaraderie with the dudes and everything but like it's like for me I'm like I am gonna try so hard to keep this rolling because he would have he would have wanted that you know he would have he wouldn't want me to break a sober streak to you know drink in his honor like you know he was a party animal but I think he he wanted to get past that yeah or at least not deal with like yeah the everyday whiley I can't imagine like I didn't want to be drinking like that you know I can't imagine anybody would want to continue that you can't it's not sustainable like why anybody would want to keep doing that day in and day out you can't go for a car ride without a drink like you can't do anything without a drink so exhausting and it's why freeing to not have to do that and I really like being like a good role model for people you know so I think that's really good. Yeah it is like it's just a support like I'm supporting you by not doing it myself you know yeah that sucks I mean it's gosh yeah he was so young and I I think like with him in particular I mean that's part of what I was saying earlier is that you know you never know if you had some other issues going on but yeah for some of my other friends that have passed away from alcohol related situation like medical issues it's like I do feel like there's a sense of like oh I'm already I'm already doomed and it's like they forget that there's like oh my gosh there's so much more and your liver does heal itself it can if you give it the resources it needs to heal.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:31

Yeah yeah not drinking and forcing all this like you know it's a filter so if you're making it filters alcohol day in and day out and like I think you said he like would get the shakes in the middle of the night and even have to drink. So he had not even an eight hour period where he couldn't drink. Yeah. Like that's bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:51

It's really bad you're probably and on top of that like what you said about making like decision like decision making when you're drinking so like okay I'm gonna drink tonight and then I'm gonna eat crappy tomorrow and then I have a hangover and I have headaches and I'm gonna take ibuprofen oh my gosh and then you're taking that every day because you have a headache and a hangover so you're taking ibuprofen and then sometimes hair of the dog so you're drinking again more alcohol with ibuprofen and then you're like that is like no wonder we are all getting sick from it like that's like you're you're fueling this you just can't do that long term. I don't even take ibuprofen when I truly need it. No it's dangerous. Yeah or any of that stuff I'm like no I have a headache because I I have to suffer now because I need sleep or I need to not stress or I need to drink water like there's usually a reason for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:52

Yeah and the hangover my gosh like I usually could not do hair of the dog because it was just too much and I would throw up violently but so I'd get like a 32 ounce seven up like that's better.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:07

Yeah the hair of the dog is and I actually always preferred day drinking like I really do because if you drink at night it's like all right well I'm just gonna go to bed yeah but like if you start early oh my god that was so fun you'd go sit out on a patio somewhere in the sunshine you'd be drinking it'd be so fun and then you'd be wasted by like 4 p.m it'd be awesome but then you normal people that day drink which is not a sentence you hear often but like normal people that day drink they're like done by 4 p.m no I would finish and close out the bar so that means I've been drinking for literally 12 hours I know how could we afford that and then after that I would go home sleep for a few hours then I'd wake up with a hangover and so I would do hair of the dog and yeah sometimes you're like so hung over but you're just like I gotta get it down because I'll feel better. Whoever told me that what a dangerous thing you introduced me to whoever it was because yeah I would like I there was a few times luckily I never really did it like before work or anything but yeah there's for sure where you would like chug a beer first thing in the morning and then try to sleep off the rest of your hangover and worst yeah and I would totally do that.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:37

I guess I did have like a few several day binders and I'll just wake up and start drinking again before before it would like I would be so drunk still when I woke up. Yeah that I'd start drinking oh my gosh before the hangover even kicked in.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:52

And that's just your yeah and that's it like it's crazy I think pilots don't they have to only stop drinking for like eight hours before their flight which is crazy because I've slept for eight hours and still woke up drunk before.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:06

Oh yeah I don't know is that accurate I think it was like eight hours it's not very much yeah because I used to wake up I'm like oh so so drunk still yeah and then like have to deal with it but like different drunk where you're just like busy you're like I'm like mentally clear but my body is still like waste or the days that you'd have to go to work and you're like this is horrible. Oh work and yeah yeah yeah I'm over it I don't want to support it but you know what's funny so like when whenever Dylan had his relapse I went through and I like found what they were drinking and I dumped it all out and I was like so mad like how dare you even bring it onto my property but then when Patrick brought it his drink over last night I was like oh good he brought his beer yeah like I guess it just depends on like the like I even considered like should I get him and Ray like a six pack or something you know I don't know why would I like it's okay for some people but not others you know I guess it's just how they drink like it is yeah like they're controlled drinkers yeah and not seeing them drunk you know yeah and that's why with like with Scott like we I've only seen him like out of control drunk maybe a couple of times in our entire relationship even though we were side by side drinking and drinking and drinking he just he can he handled it better you know and and that's why like yeah with him like I don't I don't have judgment towards him if he wanted to have a drink because he drinks very normally and rarely but yeah but then it's also I don't know you get to a point where you're like well gonna feel like crap tomorrow and that's not fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:06

Yeah. Oh my gosh the I yeah the hangovers I don't miss that.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:11

There was a point we were living in a the trailer and we weren't using the toilets because like they get gross and they stink you know so we really weren't using them except for a flesh like pea and water and I was so hungover and I was like I can't I can't throw up here and where you can throw up you know so like I got a bucket and I was like I have to go for a drive. Just like drove around with a bucket on my seat and pull over and throw up like I don't know where else to throw up and I was like hiding it at that point so I didn't want anybody to like question me why are you throwing up yeah so I just like laughed and was like throwing up in my car. Oh my god so bad that was like one of the final days the lowest like the low low yeah I'm totally like I can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:03

Well and I just became such a puker I just was always throwing up it sounds terrible which is crazy because I just threw up recently as a sober person and I was like oh my god I was like traumatized. No it's the grossest that is the craziest feeling and I was just doing it like natural like all the time you know yeah yeah there was a which it's like yeah I don't miss that no I definitely that is like the un most unglamorous part of it like I know people are like oh I'm a wine mom and they try to glamorize the alcohol and everything but with yeah that part of it is just disgusting oh I'm so gross I'm over it you have to think of those things you guys if you're struggling with like remembering the good times don't think about the bad times because you have a 50 50 shot you might have the best time of your life or you might puke and lay in the road unable to move. And the thing that helps me personally is I mean I drank for so long I was trying to think how long actually like I mean we drank again like as teenagers but just dabbling but like consistently I mean probably from 21 till now that's like a long time. And I oh man I forgot what I was gonna say cut that out I could have cut this out one minute 50 seconds I forgot what I was gonna say well how long you've been drinking oh right yeah because then I'm thinking oh I'm like me not drinking is a new thing so I'm like okay I've already been there done that with the alcohol like oh this will be kind of like a fun new experiment and it really has been where I'm like this is an absolutely new part of me that I have never met before and and that kind of keeps me going because I'm like oh no like this is my this is my my new thing it is a new thing I know I've been sober for a long time but it's still I drank longer than I've been sober still not really yeah yeah yeah I'm getting there hopefully we'll even out the playing field soon but yeah not for a while no I got some time sometime it's relearning everything and stepping out of the box like the box is it's okay to drink cheer for beer it's American yeah yeah you do kinda you gotta just get creative with it and I don't want to hold I just you know even though it'd be fun to see things change and people you know get sober and stuff like that I don't want to be bitter about it either though and that's what maybe what I want like some of my friends to know is like I I I don't need to have like this conversation is great because I really haven't had a full conversation about it in like a long time but I don't need to talk about it and I feel like they it's like kind of why I never really wanted to go to meetings is because I got a lot of that healing or like information from podcasts. Like I listen to a lot of like sober podcasts and And after a while it just starts to feel like, oh, are we all just talking about our worst our worst rock bottom stories? You know? Like I wanted to get deeper. That's why like with the AA, I still haven't been to a meeting, but it's like I don't I don't need to sit in a room and talk about all of our story. Like I I don't know. I'd rather like get let's get past that part and like let's do some breath work or meditation about it, you know? Like let's break through what made you start drinking or like tools you're using. I know that they offer tools too, but like I I don't know. I wanna like I feel like by giving it more of my energy by being angry at it is also giving me m giving it more energy. So if I just absolutely remove it from my thought altogether, then I've lost I'm no longer giving it any of my energy. And that's why that's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:01

I I'm bitter about it.

unknown 1:51:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:04

Like, why does it have to be this way?

SPEAKER_04 1:51:08

I'm more bitter about like the friends I kind of have lost along the way. Like, well, to alcohol, but also like just because I don't get invited out or something.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:20

Like I get a little bit bitter about that, but yeah, I just I mean you would like women for sobriety and love them. So after I I was like going to AA for I don't know, six months or so. I went through my steps. I had maybe longer, I don't really remember. But then I was like, I was being so like I could have just stuck with the women's group and they were fine. But also I didn't really like have a connection with people that were older than I was and in different phases of their life, and and if I went to the joint group, there was like a really old timer who like strict AA, you know, if you don't do it this way, you're doing it wrong. And one time I was like, you know, they make you say, Hey, I'm Julian, I'm an alcoholic. And I was just like in mental health, and we stopped addressing people like schizophrenic because that's not who they are. They have schizophrenia.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:16

So I was like, if you're trying to tell me this is a disease that I have, then we should call it that. So hi, I'm Julian, and I have alcoholism. And he was like, Nope. No, no, no, or no. He's like, if you can't say you're an alcoholic, you can't be here. And I was like, fine, I won't come back. I wouldn't be there. But I literally just said I have alcoholism. It's kind of the same thing, except for I'm not letting it identify me. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:40

I agree with that.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:41

Whatever. Like, get up to date on the time, whatever. He was sober longer, so you know, they might say that I knew best. But I'm like, I'm not coming back then. Whatever. So then I sought out and I found Woman for Sobriety, and it's awesome. Like in the chats, you don't talk about your rock bottoms, you talk about stuff like they'll give you a topic and you all talk on the topic, and it's stuff to like promote mental health or explore, like you know, getting over trauma, like really awesome. But the problem was there wasn't a local group, so I was like text chatting with people, which was helpful. And I would actually like to do that again. But it was also during COVID, and so I was like trying to have meetings. I sat there by myself trying to have a virtual meeting for six months. Not a single person once ever came. Oh no. I know. And I tried and I tried and wanted to have that woman first. I love it. It's all like it's really good healing stuff. I think I've read those to you. Like they don't have steps, but they have like basically affirmations, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:43

Like I am not. I think that's one of them. Like, I am not my disease, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:49

Yeah, yeah, because I don't feel like I it just makes you more of a victim to it when I'd really I'd rather just be like, oh, I don't yeah, I I don't drink anymore, but I don't want to get into it all the time. I just don't even want to give it any fuel. But yeah, I don't like the labels either. That's why I was always like, even I know they say like one day at a time, but you do kind of have to do that. And yeah, labeling yourself or I don't know. I don't like to take that route myself as an alcoholic, like okay, whatever. Call it whatever you want.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:33

I'm admitting I have a problem. That's the what the book says. Like, you have so like the first step of getting better is admitting you have a problem. I am, I'm just saying I am not this problem, you know? Yeah, I like more. I love this one. I'm gonna read them because I just love women for sobriety so much, and it's like unfortunate we don't have a local one because I totally would. So instead of steps, they have like these phrases. So one is I have a life-threatening problem that once had me. Two, negative thoughts destroy only myself. Three, happiness is a habit that I am developing. Four, problems bother me only to the degree I permit. Five, I am what I think. Six, life can be ordinary or it can be great. Seven, love can change the course of my world. Eight, the fundamental object of life is emotional and spiritual growth. Nine, the past is gone forever. No longer am I victimized by the past. I am a new woman. 10. All love given returned. 11. Enthusiasm is my daily exercise. 12. I am more competent or I am a competent woman and I have much to give life. And 13, I am responsible for myself and my actions. I like those. Isn't that great? And then so like every meeting, like you're talking about like one of those topics, like a topic within that that helps you remember that. Aren't those great? I just love it. I just vibed so much with that. I even like got like all these books and literature. I did like all the things to have these meetings. I made it like you can come to me or we can do virtual. Nobody ever came. Oh. I think it was like the timing was bad with COVID and stuff. Yeah. People were drinking more, not less.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:16

Yeah, I know. COVID was a wild time too.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:20

But I was like, we can do it in person. I don't care. I don't believe in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:25

I yeah, I would like it. I mean, if anything, you'd meet somebody that also doesn't drink, and then you can just move on and do things that you don't involve alcohol. Which is really hard in this town. It's so because everything involves alcohol. I'm like, oh, do you want to go paddle boarding? But they bring alcohol. Do you wanna like everything you could think of involves alcohol? I know. It's really hard. It's really, yeah, this town, I hate to say it, but I do think it's really cursed in that way regarding alcohol and yeah. I mean, I've been part of it, but yeah, I don't see many people in this town that like don't literally have like it's very much a part of everyone's life here.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:23

It is. That's crazy. Like the brewery is brewery central. Yeah. Well, thank you. Congratulations on one year. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:46

Goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:51

This episode is brought to you by Havern Cabinetry and Design, a family business built on more than fifty years of master craftsmanship. Since nineteen seventy-two, owner Rick Havern has delivered immaculate, custom-built cabinetry and countertops for projects of every scale, from luxury homes to hotels, hospitals, and retail environments. Whether you're renovating a home or outfitting an entire building, their work will exceed your expectations. Learn more or request a quote at haverncabinetry.com. Link in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:35

The place that travel the people that meet the face of the beat. The ground under my feet. The place is that travel the people that I meet.