Motherhood: "It Doesn't Take a Village"

In this episode, Heather invites Danielle Wood on for a discussion contrasting the modern “it takes a village” narrative with the biblical vision of covenantal community in Acts 2, particularly in the context of motherhood. Together they explore how society has used the phrase to promote state-centered child-rearing, then highlight what it looks like for Christian women to embody true, sacrificial, church-rooted community. A powerful look at what real biblical support for mothers should be. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

In 1996, Hillary Clinton released a book titled It Takes a Village. The phrase caught fire, passed from talk shows to classrooms, from policy debates to playgrounds. It became a modern proverb. It takes a village to raise a child. On the surface, it sounded good, comforting, communal, even biblical. But beneath the slogan lay a subtle shift. The village she described was not the church. It was the state, the school system, the network of experts, programs, and social institutions designed to raise children when parents couldn't or wouldn't. It was a call for collective responsibility, but not covenantal faithfulness. It promised support, but offered substitution. The village mindset says the burden is too great for parents alone. The biblical model says, bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. Although the village appears to contain the promise of community, what it offers instead is a facade. We see from Scripture that true community is built by the church. While the village outsources motherhood to experts, Christian community equips mothers through discipleship. The village prioritizes convenience over sanctification, programs over people, and outcomes over faithfulness. The village is built by the state. Christian community is built by the church and the home. The early church gives us a model of what this true covenantal community looks like. In Acts 2, we read, and they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. Breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts. Contrary to popular appeals, this was not a social program or commune. This was a covenant community. Men and women, mothers and fathers, widows and children bound together by the Spirit of God. They didn't delegate moral formation to institutions. They lived it out at their tables. They didn't need experts to teach them how to parent. They had apostles, elders, and older women who discipled the younger. To love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands. This was a fellowship that bled and prayed and served together. A network of families who saw each home as an outpost for the kingdom. When a mother grew weary, she was not told, you can't do this alone. She was told, you don't have to, because Christ has given you a family of faith. When a father faltered, brothers in Christ bore him up. When persecution came, they didn't petition the empire for programs. They broke bread, shared what they had, and sang hymns underground. You see, the village builds citizens, compliant, manageable, trained for the state. However, the church builds disciples, courageous, steadfast, and trained for the kingdom. The village teaches children to adapt to culture. The church teaches children to transform it. The village praises tolerance. The church proclaims truth. The village raises consumers. The church raises co-laborers. In the village, motherhood is a burden to be outsourced. In the church, it is a calling to be honored. In a world that is screaming at us to trust the system, it's time that we as a body trust the Savior. The world is still preaching it takes a village. But the church must remember Acts 2. Because it doesn't take a village to raise children in the Lord. It takes a body, the body of Christ. A family of believers who eat, pray, labor, and repent together. Where mothers man their posts and don't surrender to systems. It takes homes where Deuteronomy 6 is lived out daily. You shall teach these words diligently to your children. You shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise. This is how disciples are made, not by outsourcing, but by obedience. The village may promise safety, but it cannot give salvation. The state may manage outcomes, but it cannot form souls. Only Christ can do that. Through his church, through his word, and through mothers and fathers who devote themselves to the fellowship of believers and the breaking of bread. A holy community where Christ reigns, the word is central, and the home becomes a lighthouse of discipleship in a dark and distracted world. And when we live like that, when we build communities of faith instead of programs of convenience, when we as mothers collectively all man our posts, the world will again see what it saw in Acts 2. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved. The Keeping the Citadel Podcast exists to embolden women to transform their lives and homes into shining citadels for the glory of Christ and the spread of his kingdom. Hello and welcome back to the Keeping the Citadel Podcast. My name is Heather, and I am your host. Today on the show, we're challenging a cultural mantra that almost every mom has heard. It takes a village. We've all heard this saying and maybe even used it ourselves. It sounds encouraging and wholesome enough, but what if it's not true? What if that phrase, meant to sound supportive, actually undermines a mother's God-given role? We'll talk today about why motherhood isn't about outsourcing discipleship, why the biblical model for community looks more like Titus II than a government-funded village, and what true Christian community actually provides for moms who want to raise warriors for Christ. Before we dive in, I want to give a quick recap for those of you who might be new to the podcast or who might have missed the first couple episodes. This first season of the Keeping the Citadel podcast is built around one central question. What does it mean to faithfully man your post? That theme ties directly into our current quarterly magazine issue, also titled Man Your Post. Each season of this podcast will watch walk hand in hand with the magazine so that as a community, we can really go deep together, reading, listening, and growing around the same truths. If you haven't yet subscribed to the Keeping the Citadel magazine, you can do so at any time. We have already closed orders for our winter issue, but we brought back a reprint of our fall issue for just a few days. So if you miss the fall manual post issue, you can order right now a beautifully bound print edition until November 20th. So don't miss out. That means that when you get that issue, you can follow along with everything we're covering this podcast season. The structure of these podcast seasons work um kind of like this. So each issue of the magazine is divided into six sections. We've got the spiritual life, marriage, motherhood, homemaking, education, and discipleship. And uh also fruitfulness that overflows from the home into the city. And those six pillars will form the foundation of every podcast season. So each season we will uh include six episodes that reflect those same areas of focus, all tying into the magazine's quarterly theme. So in our first episode of this season, we explored what it means to man your post. And that episode was called A Woman of Valor is a woman who mans her post. I highly encourage you to go back and check that out. And then in episode two, we I had my husband on and we dived into what it looks like to apply that in the context of marriage. So if you haven't listened to those, I highly encourage you to go back and check them out. As always, these episodes are meant to complement the magazine, not replace it. You don't have to be a subscriber of the magazine to listen. But if you're like me and you love a fully immersive experience, I encourage you to read and listen together. Okay, so now that that housekeeping is out of the way, let's go ahead and dive into our episodes topic. Today we're going to look at what it means to man your post in the context of motherhood. And I've invited a guest to come on and share her wisdom and stories with us all today. I'm so thrilled to introduce you to one of my writers for the magazine, just as well as someone who has been a huge blessing to me. Danielle, can you introduce yourself to our audience?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

I sure can. My name is Danielle Wood. Um, I am so excited to be here. I'm the wife of Brandon Wood, who is one of the co-founders of Eschatology Matters. I'm a homemaker, a mother of six. We homeschool, run a homeschool co-op, and I am just so blessed and happy to be a part of this project. I think what you're doing is amazing, and I'm excited to be a guest here on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Thank you. I'm so excited to have you. Danielle and her husband Brandon reached out to me when I first started Keeping the Citadel, and they have been like cheering me on from behind the scenes and just doing so much to encourage and support me in this endeavor. And it's been such an amazing blessing because when you're getting started on a project like this, you're kind of like putting your heart and soul out there into the great void. Like, is this going to make a difference or bless anybody? And um, they have just been those kind of people that uh have really been giving me courage and um you know the strength to keep going. So I'm just grateful for you guys and your support. So I'm really excited to have you on today.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I think this is a it's a wonderful opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

So thanks. Yeah, and uh in our the Man Your Post episode, Daniel wrote an amazing article. So you guys, like I said, go back and get that issue. You can still um check that out for yourself. So anyway, Danielle, I wanted to bring you on today to have this discussion because I know that not only are you such an amazing example of what it means to be a faithful mother in your own home, but I know you're also extremely involved in your church and homeschool community. So as we dive into this topic of mothering alongside others, I thought you would have some really valuable insight. So let's go ahead and dive in. The title of this episode is It Doesn't Take a Village. I realize this probably sounds a bit controversial and a bit confusing at first because this whole phrase, it takes a village to raise a child, is something we hear everywhere. School, politics, even churches. And most of the time, this is used in a really positive way to show how we mothers need each other and can't do this in isolation. What I want to pose in this discussion, though, is that the village that most people rely on is not actually the biblical model of community. I mentioned in the cold open that this idea really took traction with Hillary Clinton's book, It Takes a Village. So, Danielle, why do you think that idea has become such a mantra in our culture and where do we tend to see it put into action the most often?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Um yeah, so I think that this has become such an epidemic because women truly have just abandoned their posts. Um they've done this with the false belief that they're being empowered, uh, that the life of the homemaker is a lowly one, that it's powerless, it's demeaning, it's commonplace. And um somehow they were deceived into believing that climbing the corporate ladder and being self-sufficient was the highest calling in life. Um with that, like I really as far as where I think that it's put into action the most, I don't believe that it is just one area that is overwhelmingly showing this, I guess. I think it's a s a systemic issue. Um and I think that it started with dismantling the nuclear family.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Oh yeah, yeah, I completely agree with that. I think what I see a lot is this idea of um, well, we all have that innate desire and need to have that headship um as women, you know. And but what the government does is it comes in as our daddy, you know, daddy government trying to be the savior. And um I think we as women oftentimes look to that to be the solution and savior for everything, all like right down to parenting our children.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Yes, I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Yeah, yeah. So, in your view, how has the village mindset contributed to modern mothers feeling insufficient, as if they're not enough without those experts in schools and systems?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Um Yeah, I think that we have really allowed the public school system, the government, and all in all of these manners, we've allowed them to shape what motherhood looks like, um, what raising children should look like, and we've allowed them to set the standard for how that should how that should play out in society and in our homes, um, which God never intended for the life of the Christian home to be um something governed by this huge entity. Um, I think for us personally, in in this day and age, we one huge struggle, and I don't know, maybe this is a different maybe we're thinking along a different line, but I think that social media has really been a detriment to motherhood. Um and to and to what we believe I I guess I don't I don't think that God ever intended for us to live in a way that our lives are on um they're showcased for the entire world to see. Um I think that he meant for us to live in these small local communities pouring into each other's homes within the church and um not having access to worldwide, I guess, comparison and influence, and then just um really man, I guess allowing somebody other than the church and and scripture to dictate what what is sufficient. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense to you.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah, no, it does. It totally does. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I have people who hear that I stay at home full time uh or that I homeschool full-time and they're like, oh, I can never do that because I'm not patient enough. Or I have no idea, I have no idea how to how to homeschool or how I I could be with my kids all day long. And um, and so I think that women are really being trained to think of themselves as insufficient, whether it's with training or or just their character, like they in and of themselves are being told and and conditioned to believe that they are not enough to be with their kids, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I completely agree with that. Uh the amount of mothers that have said that to me, like, oh wow, you must have so much patience. Or I don't I don't even like my kids enough to spend the whole day with them all day, every day. And I'm just like, whoa, why why did you have I mean I I wouldn't actually say this to a mother.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Well, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Why why would you have children if if not to invest your life and pour into them all that you can? It really is sad. And yeah, I mean, there's been a lot, I think, especially with the public school system and even even privates, the private school system, which I'm not necessarily against. Uh, we obviously choose to homeschool and we think that's best. But yeah, uh, I do think that that has been a huge thing where there have been so many people, and again, this is the this is the downfall in some ways of social media because once you share your life online, it is then open to scrutiny from whoever decides that they're, you know, they're going to insert their opinion into that. But um, the amount of people that have said, you know, you're not, you know, I mean, not to me specifically, but just in general. Like mothers aren't equipped to educate their own children. Um, they're never gonna know how to how to be out in the real world. And um, you know, who do you like? There's just all of these things that it's really sad because they're lies from the enemy that mothers believe about themselves and that they're handing over their children to a system that really hates God and hates the nuclear family. And and as I said, um, I guess maybe it's in the article that's coming out for the winter issue, but like nothing is truly neutral.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

And so Yeah, that was actually one of my favorite lines that you hadn't. Yes. I highlighted that one and put it in a poll quote. Oh, I love it. Yeah, yeah, nothing is neutral. Like all of uh we there that's the whole thing of of neutrality is is a myth. There's no ground that should not be taken for Christ, or that we should not think that that the world is not going to claim for themselves, especially when it comes to our kids.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Yeah. Yeah. So how does the village idea, this whole village idea, promise support while subtly ending a mother's responsibility?

SPEAKER_00 18:58

I think that man, there are so many facets to this that you could go into. I know. Um let's see. I think that it makes it especially I mean it's hard, it's hard to not come from this the public school side of this, but there are many other, there are many other sides to this. But I believe that we have allowed these different systems, whether it be even in the church, you know, there are some churches that do these things, but we have allowed them to come in and I guess just tell us that it's okay. It's okay for other people to be investing this much time. This is how it's supposed to be. Um, you know, I have I've had people on on Facebook posts message me about some of some comments about like being a homemaker and being the one to raise your own children and how our post is in our home and we need to do that joyfully because that is what God has given to us. And I've had mothers message me before saying, Well, it is it's actually a requirement that other people help. This is literally a message I've had before, that other people are raising my children so that I can go do the job that God called me to do. And she really truly believed that.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah, that's sad. Yeah. So, like right there, there's like the innate belief that you have a calling that's above your calling as a mother, like that takes priority over that. Yeah. Yeah, that's sad. I I think that also just like with the rise of feminism and um the entitlement that kind of goes along with with feminism is that whole idea of like women can have it all and they should be able to do it all, you know. And so I I mean, one thing I see a lot, just especially like where I live, because I live a like in a really expensive area to live, um, is that there's so many moms who are putting their kids in daycare, um, and they're just, you know, being raised by the preschools and their daycare providers, and it's all I think feeding that idea that it's more necessary for a woman to go out and be pursuing her dreams or having some higher calling in that regard than it is for her to be raising her own children.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yeah, I mean, I think even seeing some of that is like it is owed to me, even even moms who I think it can run, it can run in some different ways. You know, moms who do quote unquote stay home, but they think that they're entitled to this time off, time away from their kids, and um they're putting that responsibility and really it's um it's really sad. Because it's such a blessing to be able to raise our children and bring them alongside of us in these things. But um yeah, like in daycares, like there are several, I I've seen several people that I mean, I may not know all of them personally, but um in some of these areas, like what you're talking about, where well they do stay home, but they also have nannies and they have people who are other women who are coming in and taking care of their children while they go and do their errands, or like life is inconvenient to bring alongside your children. I guess does that make sense, like bringing them alongside of you and doing the day-to-day, even in some of these instances, it's like, well, I can't do this with my children. Um, or these moms who truly do believe that they're chasing something higher and better and they're missing out on all of these years of raising their little ones and putting them in daycare because, well, my higher calling is to be an attorney or to work for this person or that person and build up the corporate ladder. And um, you know, being a mother and being at home is just a lowly job. Um and so yeah, and I think that that's perpetuated in, I mean, obviously, like feminism coming in and, you know, like you you can do everything that a man can do, and it is demeaning to be told that you're not capable of that. And it's not even about capabilities, it's about what were we designed for and what is best for our for the nuclear family and for our home. And we're not thinking generationally, we're not thinking about the legacy that we're leaving and the impact that that we have with those little ones in our home, the time that we have with them investing a heritage of our faith and our virtues and morality, um, and handing that off to somebody else who, in most cases, really does not have, they don't have the same, um, they're not coming from the same worldview. And so we are handing off our children to a lot of times pagans or um, you know, people who maybe have this guise of Christianity, but it's not actually rooted in biblical, um in a biblical foundation. And we're we're just skirting all of our responsibilities as parents, and it's really sad because it's a beautiful thing to be able to pour into our children and mold and shape them. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking to see that we've allowed society as a whole to shape what the family should look like and um make mothers feel ill ill-equipped to do those things.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Yeah, yeah, it's really sad. I I think like what you were just saying, like it really comes down to that innate belief of what is my what is my highest calling and my highest priority as a woman, as a mother, and um just that that conditioning that we've received in our culture that has taught women that they're entitled to having their me time or having um a a career or having even just like you were saying, like some like a nanny or s some other kind of thing that gives them a break constantly. Like I even hear um, you know, just like regular homemakers who are complaining and bemoaning the fact that they don't have either grandparents or friends who are giving them a break from their kids all the time. And obviously those things are huge blessings, and we definitely make it clear that I'm not saying here that women should never have a break.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Um or or or help. Like, but it's it's more what I'm getting at is, and with this whole idea of it takes a village, is what I see is that that is used as a way to feed a woman's entitlement for herself and her her selfish pursuits. And so she she calls upon a village, which is really just outsourcing her own responsibility. Yeah, it's not it's not true community, it's outsourcing.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Yeah, yeah. So I want to move from kind of that overview to a biblical view of community. So we all know we obviously can't parent in isolation, and that would not be good for us or for our kids. But as we were just talking about, farming out our kids out to the village isn't what true community is either. So I want to pause here for a sec and read these verses from Acts 2 because we really need to understand what the biblical version of community is. So Acts 2 says right here, and they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common, and they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved. So, in light of what we've been talking about, one of the first things I notice is that the early church didn't have programs, social workers, or experts. So, Danielle, what stands out to you about the kind of community described there? What do you think that in Acts 2, the early church had that we've lost?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah, I think that we've lost a lot of what the early church had, unfortunately. Um I do think that there is hope in that, that there are many of us working to bring that back. Um, but they really truly had authentic community. They had a real investment in the lives of the people and their church. Um, the church was taking care of its own people at that point. Um, the government wasn't stepping in to do to do the job of the local church. Um, they were bearing each other's burdens and truly, truly invested in in one another's lives. So I think that honestly, I think we've lost a lot of that. We are trying to reclaim it, but I think that we have lost that, especially the bearing of each of each other's burdens and really investing in lives. I think that we the culture that we live in, unfortunately, has become so about self and becoming your highest self and in and what do you want and what do you feel and you know what is your identity in in these things? And it's become so self-centered that it it it can be even for the Christian, really easy for the Christian mother to even isolate herself and not participate in community and um become so overwhelmed in, well, this is just so hard for me, and this is what's going on in my life, and I just can't give to anything else because me, me, me, me, me. Um, and the reality is that we're not called to live these lives that are, that are easy, that are isolated, that are selfish. We're called to live in community, to bring others into our homes, to bear one another's burdens. We're called, um, we're called to take care of one another. And I think the society that we live in, and we've perpetuated this with feminism and and all these things, we've created women who are so selfish and self-serving and self-seeking that they can't see beyond their own, their own lives, even so much so that they can't see beyond themselves to their children and what their children need and what their husbands need. And it's this, you know, and and I understand I'm not discounting how hard motherhood isn't an easy thing. And choosing to be a homemaker certainly is is the hardest thing, but it's the most beautiful, most rewarding thing. And unfortunately, the society that we have in this culture that we're perpetuating is that we we allow ourselves to be so consumed with ourselves that we refuse to lay ourselves down, to die to ourselves and our wills, and to pick up the cross, our cross to carry it and to pour into others and to actually have these relationships, um, to come alongside of each other. And honestly, and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but um a lot of no, you're fine. Okay, um, but a lot of this is it's showing by a lot of us now as women, and I know we're gonna talk about this later, so I won't go too deep into it, but we have lost many of us, and maybe you don't have the same experience, but at least in my area, we've never had that Titus II model of older women because it's been that attitude of, you know, well, this is what I this it's just about me. And so yeah, I I feel like we've lost a lot of what the early church had, and it was it was beautiful. And I think that the community, if if we could get back to that, the communities that we could build, we could really take back a lot of what the culture has, we've allowed the culture to um distort.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Yeah, I I love that so much because uh like I think what you touched on really gets to the heart of how we as Christians should be thinking generationally, and our whole goal and what we're doing is raising disciples. Yeah. And as mothers, that's what we should be thinking. Our purpose is like we're raising disciples, we're not raising citizens. You know, I mean, uh yes, we want to have our kids be good citizens, but our ultimate goal here is is we should be thinking about the generation. Okay, so Danielle, would you be willing to share about a time when other believers came aside, you and motherhood, and it changed everything? Or have you ever experienced uh in your church or community that kind of acts to description of what we were just talking about and where you're like, this is really what true Christian community looks like?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah. So, you know, like I said, where where I'm at, I think we're rebuilding and reclaiming a lot of things. And so that has been something that has been, I think some of us mothers who I I mean, my husband tells me that I am an older woman, and I guess technically I am, but I also still have You're not an older woman. I still have young kids. I think it's because you're like not even 40. I'm not 40 yet. I will be 39 in December.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

That's what no, that's what I said. You're you're not even 40 yet. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Um But there there has been, we are trying to reclaim some of that and some of the things that maybe we didn't have the benefit of. But I have seen some wonderful examples of that, especially um in the past couple of years. And so there there are some of us that are trying to build that and to grow community in that way. Um, we have a wonderful woman in our church as an example. Uh, we have a family who fosters and adopts, and um most of the girls that they have have some sort of either um learning disability or there had been abuse, um, and so just some different um behavioral issues. And we have a wonderful couple in our church who are older and they were never able to have children. And the wife especially has really taken to this family. She sits with them at church, she helps, you know, bring the kids out if they need to be brought out. She's um really helping to support this family and love on them, and honestly, so much so that my husband at one point thought that she was the wife's mother and didn't realize that it was just a lady in the church that was um stepping into that role and helping in that way. Yeah, um, you know, for me, myself personally, um, you know, I I'm not going to wallow in what I I never got. I don't think that that is healthy. And I think that the best thing that we can do is to start building that sort of um community within our own churches and and um with the mothers here. And so, you know, for me, even though I'm not, I don't believe I'm an older mother, um, but I have children from 17 down to almost three. So we have a wide um age range, and we have some young moms, truly young moms in our church who are just had their first kid, maybe they're, you know, a year, most of them have children, their first babies, and they're one or younger. And just being aware and encouraging them, you know, there's times when we have family integrated um church services, and so we don't have the children's programs, we don't have those things, and and we do that on purpose, but that can be hard for young mothers. And so um I can remember uh probably a month ago, there was a mom um out in the kind of the fellowship hall area, and she you could just tell that she was just really struggling, and you know, she just said, I I just feel like I haven't been in a church service and been able to enjoy church service in a really long time. And it's just um, you know, I just feel like is he more of a distraction? Like I feel like people are looking, which and our they definitely are not, but that's kind of you know, for moms, we feel like, oh, like we hear our kids the loudest.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Exactly. Yeah, we're always like the most self-conscious of our own kids.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

And so I told her, I said, you know, here's the thing this is a season, it is not forever, you will not always be here, but this is also an act of worship. You are still this is still an act of worship pouring into your child, bringing him to church, you know, um, doing it joyfully, and it's not for nothing. Um, you know, and I think it was the next week, maybe. I just I felt very convicted. I was like, can I just take him down to the nursery during the preaching? And you know, she came down and she was like, Thank you. I think that was the first time my husband and I have in a year have got to listen to a sermon together. And so I just think those things where it wasn't like I'm not gonna do that every week, you know. Um so we're not completely taking that responsibility and that training off of their shoulders, but coming alongside of them and when we when we know, like, okay, like I just felt the Holy Spirit, it just was very pressed on me. I'm gonna ask if I can take him. Encouraging them, coming alongside of them, um, sharing, you know, hey, we've all been there, and it's okay, and and it does it does end, and it's still a beautiful thing. Um, you know, we have moms who I know there's an older lady at a church that we call them our sister church, and I see what they have there, and it's so beautiful. And the pastor's wife just she pours into the younger women, she loves um homemaking, and she was a Charlotte Mason homeschool mom. And um just pouring into moms in that way and making things beautiful and teaching them, you know, like they do a conference um and they hold it, they hold it at our church every year. It's called Jesus in Politics. And they yeah, it it rubs some people the wrong way, but it is a really good conference. Um it'll rub all the the right people the right way. Yes, agreed. Um, but you know, like she came in, and I'm usually the point person for them um with you know, food and getting into the church and helping set up and those kinds of things, and um, they just do such a beautiful job of making things beautiful and pulling younger women alongside of them and training them in that. And they do different wedding events and things like that, and just showing hospitality and love to their body, to their community in that way, where um, you know, they're teaching young moms how to uh go into others' homes and help them in those ways, or to like if somebody's getting married, they're like, hey, we've got all the decorations and we're gonna come in and we're gonna set up and we're gonna help in that way. But they're showing other women these these types of hospitality. This I think it's more of it's very radical hospitality. Um, and they're very intentional about that. And so those are just some of the examples. And for us, you know, I run a homeschool co-op. I know that you know that. Yeah, and um, we are very intentional about the culture that we're building and pouring into these younger moms. We do a mother culture class, um, which has been surprisingly, I mean, we knew it would be a good class, but just very beautiful and being able to come alongside moms and um the struggles that they're having and encourage them. Um, and even in, and I'm sure that you've experienced this running your own co-op. There's things that we can see with students and addressing those with parents. A lot of times there's underlying issues, and we've gotten to pour into them and pray with them and come alongside of them in some of these hard things that they're dealing with in life and letting them know that they're not alone. And a lot of these moms, we have some from our church, but a lot of them are not even, you know, they wouldn't be reformed. Um, they're not from our church, they are Christians, but we've gotten to pour so much into them. And, you know, we had one today that told us that she just this is right now, there's so much upheaval in her life that this is her one safe space. And um we had a play rehearsal, so that's why I talked to her today. Um, but you know, just knowing that what we're doing, we're doing it intentionally to pour into mothers to to encourage them, not only in homeschooling, but in being homemaker, the homemakers that God has called them to be, and um building that kind of community and that um safety and security, and knowing that, hey, like we're here for you. Um, we're here to encourage you, to pray for you, to pray with you. So, yeah, those are some of the things that um I've seen and that we are trying to actively be doing within our community to build that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

I I love all that so much, and I can really relate to like so much of what you said, because it's it's it's really been a lot of what my experience has been too with with my own church and um even just my my motherhood experiences. I I felt lonely and um in some ways unsupported for a long time in my early motherhood. And I think you really, as especially as like a young mom, you can kind of fall into that trap of self-pity and thinking of like, well, you know, this is like what I want. I would I want this kind of community or I want these kind of women to be pouring into me and you know, just feeling sorry for yourself when that happens. But thankfully, in the last like five years, I would say God has just been well, He's done like a huge work in my own heart, but also in bringing other people into my life and my church, um, like close friends who we're like-minded in the same way. We're on mission together. And like I love what you talked about about building, because we really have the option of if we're going to sit and wallow in self-pity about our circumstances not being what we want them to be, or not having the kind of community that we want it to be, or we can go out and make it and build it. Yeah. And I know like that's what me and um you know, my best friend Stacey, like what we've tried to do with our co-op. And it's been amazing the the the way that that has opened the door for so much organic discipleship and getting to just come alongside these women and these in doing their callings and encouraging them and equipping them to really live out what they are trying to do and and letting them know that they're not alone. But I think what I've learned with true biblical community versus like this whole it takes a village mindset is you know, what is friendship for? Like what biblical friendship. It's when we think of true biblical friendship, it exists to equip each other into serving and living out what Christ has called us to do and pursuing holiness and serving each other in that way. And it's not it's not this whole idea of affirming each other and making us feel better about ourselves or coddling each other when you know we have this whole victim mindset of like, oh, poor is me, I need all my girls to come and make me feel better.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Some wallow in the hole with me.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Exactly. And what what does that really do? It ends up just enabling moms to continue on in their self-pity and giving them them the excuse to continue to outsource their responsibility. Um yeah. But what I see with true um biblical community is God has designed us to function as individuals within a unit. And this is that's what it means to be in a covenantal community. And we're we are for the purpose of serving each other. And um, you know, as it says in in John 15, 13, greater love has no one than this, then someone lay down his life for his friends, and we're supposed to bear one another's burdens. And that is um that it's not about like what you can do for me. What can these people, what can this system, what can this um program or whatever do for me. Me satisfy my kids' needs. It's it's about how can we together equip each other in the calling that the Lord has given us so that we can together um be an army of women, you know?

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Yeah. So what do you think it looks like to practically man your post as a mother in daily in your daily life? Like how how do you balance being the primary discipler while still living in a community?

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yeah, I think that um as far as what what it looks like daily um to to be manning our post would be that we're realizing that every spill, every dirty diaper, every sleepless night, every meal, every load of laundry, all of these things, um, the heart talks, the discipline, that it's all an act of worship, that none of it's meaningless, that it all has eternal impact, and that we're shaping future generations. And we're doing that and balancing that with being our primary desire and not off off um off skirting, I guess is that the word. Um I don't know, but um, but putting off our our responsibilities on other people, but we can still do that while being in community by building relationships with like-minded families, doing life together, um, letting other men pour into our boys, letting other women pour into our girls. You know, my my girls, um we have gone to an older lady in our church, we've gone to her home, and she has helped them with sewing projects. Uh, we at our co-op, we have dads come in that teach our older boys um handicrafts class. You know, this semester they are learning about cars and gun safety and interviewing skills and a whole slew of man things. And our girls, we have a wonderful mother who this semester is teaching them all about herbalism and taking care of their bodies and preparing things for their families for cold and flu season. And so for us, that I'm not trying to sound uh mean about this, but it really does matter who you surround yourself with. And yeah, we are investing in families who are who have the same values as us, who are going in the same direction, not necessarily this like beehive mindset of like we have to be the same on everything, but that we feel are solid Christian families with husbands who are leading the home, mothers who are in the home, manning their posts in a way that is honoring and glorifying God, and children who are respecting and obeying their parents. And we want that for our families, and you know, we want that for our children. And so we're very intentional about becoming very close and doing life with those kind of people, and then finding men, you know, a lot of times like our boys, you can only do so much as a father, and not in a this isn't in a bad way, but sometimes they do need another man to come in and be like, hey, like this is not, you know, to be an example or to teach a skill, um, and and them feeling like something that is their own and doing that alongside of another man who can teach them this, um, not necessarily because because their dad can't, but because they're gonna live. But it it reinforces this. And they're gonna live their entire lives. I mean, you know, some of them will be entrepreneurs and they're not gonna be working for other people, and and you know what, isn't that kind of what we hope for as a Christian community that we're building beautiful things and we're taking back culture and that they're not working under um, you know, corporations that aren't, you know, they're just reclaiming some of these things, but they will they will generally have somebody else to answer to and and other people to come along and reinforce, like, no, this is good, this is what is good, and this is what is right, and the same for our girls, you know. Um, we we can have the most amazing relationships with our children and they can trust us and honor us and love us, but also bringing in other like-minded women to pour into them or men to pour into them is invaluable, and so being intentional about that and not offskirting, you know, offsetting your responsibilities to somebody else, but bringing them in as reinforcement and to show like, hey, this isn't just us, we're not alone in this, and this is a beautiful thing, and other families, you know. Um, yeah, so I think that that's that's kind of how we're we're doing those things in life.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

That's awesome. I love that. I I think that we're doing a lot of the same things at my church right now. It's it's actually been really exciting because, like I mentioned, you know, for a long time they felt lonely or unsupported in certain things. And I think for a long time this wasn't the culture at my church. But um, in recent years, there's kind of been this resurgence of this I this idea of what it means to be a Titus II woman, and um how how can we do theology applied as women, and how can we um learn how to be the kind of women who are pouring into others, and then also how as you know, the younger woman, how can we be receiving that? And um, it's just been amazing to to go from that place of the victim mindset of well, you know, I do none of this exists to support me. I don't have these um people pouring into me or into my kids to how can we be the ones to to build that culture for yeah, both for our ourselves and the women around us, but also for our children to grow up in. And um we've at my church, we've started this ministry called Women to Women, and it's a time where we get to just go through really like the whole, we call it the curriculum of Titus II, and what it is to be a wife who is submitting to her husband and uh a mother who is investing in her kids and embracing our role in the home. And for a lot of these women, this is like brand new, you know, they they were not taught these things in their life, and so it can be it can be really intimidating when that's not like what you are used to. But um, I think I just want to encourage any listeners here where you might be in a situation where this was not your experience or you aren't surrounded by that type of community, like you can go out and be part of building that. And it it doesn't have to look like starting a whole ministry at your church that's revolved around this, but it could just be you, like these practical examples that you were just giving at your church, you know, going in and helping a mom with her baby, or um having a young woman come over to your home and uh learning how to bake alongside you, um, or you going and and meeting with an older woman and learning how she was able to be a wife during hard seasons of marriage. Just things like that, I think, are things that you don't have to have a program or a system for, but these are things that you can be doing in whatever situation right now in order to build that type of true covenantal community.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

Yeah, I think for us, you know, we have a similar situation where our pastor, the church that we're in, he came in as the pastor nine years ago. There's a whole uh backstory to this, like he actually grew up in this church and it's been through several different denominations and different things. Um, but he started reforming the church nine years ago. And a lot of the people that were here, well, even the ones that are left that, you know, we call them kind of the old guard that have stayed, and these are these older couples, um, they've never had they never had that example. It was never given to them. And then they grew up in a time when, and you know, in the in the 50s, um, unfortunately, like TV dinners were pretty detrimental to to the nuclear family. And, you know, there were they stopped learning skills. They stopped, you know, everything was all for convenience and all of these things that had been handed down generation to generation, like all of a sudden it stopped. And even within our church, you know, I think that there's there's something to be said about the younger women reclaiming these things. And in our church specifically, though, like not leaving behind these older women, um, because I know a lot of them, even in and there's some that just aren't gonna come along, um, and they and they're they're just not. Um, and that's something that we can pray for them about, and we can still continue to invite them into that. But, you know, we have I had an older lady tell me they used to do a sewing club here at the church. And I told her, I said, you know, that would be with all with all these young families here, like these moms, that would be an amazing thing to start back up. Like they would love to learn these skills. And it's funny because a lot of us, and it's not, you know, there's just a definitely a culture here. I live in Amish country. Um we a lot of the women here, like we wear dresses a lot, but these older generations, you know, they're still in and there's no judgment map, but they're still like they're in their they're in their dress slacks and blazers, and um, for them it's been a culture shock with some of these younger families coming in and then trying to build community this way. And the the lady looked at me and said, But you know, like you're just a different breed. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Like I was gonna say, that's good that's a compliment. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

I appreciate that. And she's the same, she is wonderful, and she's the same lady who I've taken my girls to for sewing lessons, and she taught a sewing class the first semester of my co-op. Like, she is wonderful. But I think that in a lot of ways, when we're doing these things, um, we do also want to remember that we even if some of these the older generation didn't raise their children the way that we're raising our children, and they probably didn't homeschool them, and um, they didn't you the skills that we're reclaiming they never really used, or if they did, it was more of a hobby or taught to them when they were young children, and it's not something that they actually, you know, use throughout their lives. But knowing that, like, like you said, going to an older lady and sitting down and allowing her to like, how did you get through this tough tough time in your marriage? Like, there are still wonderful spiritual applications and practical ones that these older women can give us and and and including them and bringing them alongside of us in this, even though it's kind of a reverse titus to thing, but allowing them to have this place where it's like, no, we we appreciate and value what you have to offer us and loving those women um and encouraging them to come along with us in this journey, I think is is really important as well.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

Yeah, no, I I love so I love what you just said so much, and I'm so glad you brought that up because that that's actually been something that we've talked a l about a lot at my church, is uh we see a lot of these older women who are a bit intimidated, I think. And they they don't know kind of what it looks like to be a Titus woman. They they know that they're supposed to be, but um a lot of us younger moms are just really excited and we're excited to build culture and we're excited to um really lean into these things. And I think often they can feel like they don't have anything to offer us. But I mean, regardless of the fact of if they were a career woman or a stay-at-home mom or they public schooled or not, like these women have still lived a life and they have, you know, been married and you know gone through hard times and and they have skills, and there's so many things that that we can still look to to them and glean from them. And I think that that as younger women we need to be humble enough to like the Bible says to honor your fathers and mothers. And when we are humble and we go to them and we appreciate what we are able to glean from them, that's a way that we can honor those uh spiritual mothers in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 56:19

Yeah. Um, so I I think that you know, if if you're an older woman who is listening to this right now, there's so many ways that you can be pouring into the women in your life regardless of what your background or experiences are. I I know a mom right now with one of my closest friends, um a mom from our church, uh or an older lady from our church, and she comes over to my friend's house like once a week, and she just grabs her four-year-old and she takes him out and has like a few hours of fun with him so that she can homeschool her older two kids without the interruptions of having a toddler around. That's amazing. Like it's just yeah, isn't that amazing, you know? And I think that's just such an amazing example of Titus II discipleship and mentoring. It doesn't have to look, it can be formal, but it doesn't have to look like a formal sit-down, you know, let's go through a book of the Bible together or read this book together. It or even some kind of domestic training. It can just be something as simple as, hey, let me take your kid for a bit so you can, you know, get some things done.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

And mom's not she's not uh giving her responsibilities to her. She's this that that is such a wonderful thing that she's coming in and allowing more of a space for this mom to have an afternoon to really pour into her other kids and to hurt their education. And then this this young toddler is getting that time um to go out and play and to have one-on-one time. And so, and I think that's the difference. And I'm sure a lot of people will be triggered if they don't listen to the whole our whole conversation about a village, it doesn't take a village. And it's it's like, no, it's not that we can't have help and support, it's that we're not offsetting and and giving away our duties and responsibilities to other people and expecting for them to raise our children. It's absolutely okay to have somebody come in, and what a seriously, what a blessing that is to have someone come in and do that.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

Yeah, exactly. And I also I don't I don't want to demonize women who or moms who are in a position where they have to be working and they don't have an option but to um get some outside help. Like there's there's many women who are in situations like that, and you know, they're they would love to be with their kids full time or you know, and not having to get childcare, but that's just the the lot that the Lord has given them, and they have to trust him and their provision. And those situations like that, when we talk about outsourcing, that is not what I'm referring to. When I'm talking about outsourcing so that you can have a career or or have your me time or go to the spa, like what I'm talking about is you shirking your your responsibility as a mother so that you can invest in yourself. And um it's it's the it's the difference between an attitude of entitlement versus um versus what are my duties and responsibilities for my kids. And you know, a lot of times, some sometimes as a mother, the way we for we fulfill our duties and callings as a mother requires that we do enlist some outside help. Yeah. So I just want to, you know, for those of you who are listening and maybe you're not in a situation where you can be there full time, I I want to encourage you that that um you know that you can still be investing in your children's discipleship and thinking generationally and um, you know, that like does that make sense what I'm trying to say?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

Yeah, because I I mean it is there are a lot of people that I know that they would love if you know if they were able to stay home and homeschool their children. And right now, the place that they're in, you know, it's not it's it's not that that's not the desire of their hearts, it's just the season that they're in. And and unfortunately, some of it is the economy that we're in, and that's not always possible. And so there's no sh there's no shaming in that and in our hearts, like truly. I know I can say that yours as well, like go out to those mothers because that is a hard place, and that's not shirking responsibilities. That is, you know, if if that is what it takes for your family to be able to um be sustained and survive, like you are doing what you need to do to care for your children, and that's not I mean, I agree with you, it's not an entitlement thing, it's a survival.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

Yeah, yeah. Well, and you know, I even I think of an example of um another mom in our community group. She they just decided her and her husband to homeschool. And this was, you know, this is a a decision that required a lot of courage for them because I think financially, like I said, our area is very expensive to live in. It's really hard to live on one income. And she is still going to have to do uh to work from home. A lot of people, a lot of wives around here have to still work from home just to make ends meet. Um, I'm in California, in case you didn't know. Um, but what her family is doing is they're coming alongside and offering to help with the the childcare and everything so that she can do what God is calling her to do in being the educator of her kids. And um I think that's such a great example of using your family not as a way to um outsource your responsibilities, but they're helping you to uh to strengthen you and equip you in doing the thing that God is calling you to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

Yeah. And what and I mean, I know I said this about the um the other lady, but like that is a blessing to have family that's willing to come in and help you and fill those gaps so that you can still do those things.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. Um how can how can young moms stop seeing themselves as victims in their motherhood and view their calling not as drudgery but as discipleship?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

Um falling on their face before God in prayer, getting into the word. Um you know, really it it takes really dying to yourself and seeing this as the highest calling and the most rewarding eternal work that they could do. Um it really is to be humble and to and to die to self. And you know, I feel like even moms who know this intrinsically and believe this can sometimes fall into those traps of, you know, despair and feeling like, oh, like this is, you know, and even we have to be reminded, like, no, this is a beautiful, wonderful, God glorifying, joyful thing that I get to do. And just I mean, repenting of our sinful behavior and asking God to, you know, in those moments or or those seasons to change our hearts and to help us to see the beauty in that. That would be that would be what I would say. Prayer getting into scripture. And, you know, sometimes you really nobody is I don't I don't I'm not saying that it is ever an easy thing. This really is not an an easy calling, um, but it is a worthy one and one that regardless of how we feel, um, our feelings and what truth is are totally different. And we have to choose to be joyful and to to chase after and fight for what is honoring God and what is best for our families and for our communities and and for the legacy that we want to leave and the things that um are eternal and that generational um, you know, wealth and investment and um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

Yeah. Yeah, I and I think too, like it might be that God has called you to a season of loneliness for a time. Um I know for many years I was lonely and praying desperately that the Lord would supply me with friends who I could do motherhood with, you know, that I could raise my kids with. And those years were really hard. And um I felt really lonely a lot of times, and it was hard kind of going through and just shouldering that burden on my own. But God was so faithful to provide that for me. And like now I just I think about the friends that I have and and the ladies I'm able to raise my kids alongside, and I'm just so incredibly grateful for the way that God has provided in that way. And so, like if you are in a season where, you know, it you motherhood is hard and you're lonely and you don't have that support, I would just say to keep praying that the Lord will provide for you because He sees us in our need and um and He does and He does provide for us in that time. But if it is those times of real um like when you're really in the the grind of motherhood, God uses that also to strengthen us and to give us grit and and to depend on him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

And I think it's important to remember that God really does work in seasons and that there are seasons of of blooming and beautiful new things and growth and uh things. um, you know, refreshment and of death and you know, there are all these seasons and they have a purpose and they don't last forever. Um because there's definitely I I can relate in praying and praying and praying for God, if you could just send me someone, you know, someone that understands, that's on the same trajectory that we're on, that has the same values. And you know, there was a season for us where we had good friends, but we and they were Christian friends, but God called us out of a church that really truly was not um He ripped a veil from our eyes I don't know how many years ago, maybe five years ago, four years ago, um, and pulled us out of just a church that was not it was just wasn't great. Um and while we had close friends, none of them actually had the same values as us. Um we were the only family homeschooling, like literally we were the black sheep of our friend group. Um and but through that, like he has brought us where we're at now, and there have been so many families that have come in, and we are all working towards the same goals, and moms who um, you know, I know that like I can really trust that have come alongside of me, and I've been able to come alongside of them and encourage each other and really do life like this. And you know what? Like my oldest is 17, and I can say honestly, for the first time that this is this is the first time in the last couple of years that I've actually had what I've prayed for for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

Um that's amazing. Isn't that a blessing when that happens?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

Yes, and and you and you look at it and you you can see things come full circle and you can see all these seasons, the really hard seasons and the lonely seasons, and the seasons of just like dying to yourself and God refining you and stripping things away and and things that you feel like that like God literally had to rip out of your hands because you weren't gonna let go of that were not good for you, um, even if they weren't sinful things, just things that weren't the best things that he had for you or the what his will was, and then coming to a point where it's like, wow, like he really was, like he God's he he tells the truth, like he really was working all things out for good, and he does want what is best. And you know, those seasons of loneliness, of um you know, where our hearts are not joyful, where we just feel totally discouraged and we feel like a season that or in is never going to end. Um, it does end. And there is growth, and like you said, like grit, like we realize there is grit that mothers get from those seasons. Um we become strong, and and because of that, we get to build and pour into other women from those experiences so that they know that they're not alone. Like we've been there, and and and it does end, but there's a beauty that comes from it, and um that's I mean that's what refining is, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:02

Like yeah, exactly. And like like you were saying, like the season you're in right now might be for the purpose that you can use that to encourage a mom down the line. Yeah, I love that. So I want to move into kind of some practical ways and especially like in the context of the church. Um what first of all, how can churches better support moms without enabling passivity or dependency on programs? And kind of how do we even see this village mindset in in the way mo a lot of modern churches are set up?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

I think, let's see. So churches better supporting moms without enabling passivity or dependency on programs. Yeah, I think a lot of it is giving us the opportunity and encouraging moms to pull to invite others into their homes. Um a lot of it is I think that we can get caught in this trap of, well, we have to have a program for every little thing, and it has to be this very um thought-out, like we're gonna meet every, you know, once a week and do this thing, or once a month. Um, and it's it's not actually um encouraging actual community building, but pulling pulling moms into your homes, um doing, you know, encouraging women to maybe come together and I don't know, like, hey, why don't we come in and uh decorate the church for the new season together? Giving them opportunities to work side by side, or um honestly, like I know some of that can't happen with young moms, you know, but encouraging, hey, like why don't you send a card to a mom this week, you know, encouraging a mom, or stop by and drop off a coffee, or um, I don't know, those those kind of things I guess would be um maybe ways. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:58

Yeah, no, I mean I I to completely agree with all those examples you just gave. I think that's where we really see what that true community and support does look like for moms. Um I think what I have seen a lot, uh especially as I was growing up, was just this idea that we needed to that parents needed to put their kid in some kind of program at the church for them to disciple their kids for them. And um, and even yeah, I I'm not against classical Christian schools or Christian schools uh at all. I I think that there's so many excellent ones, but I think that this can happen even with um with Christian schools. Like I'm going to put my kid in this and they're going to disciple my kid for me, and my kid's gonna turn out the way that I want them to. And I think that all like these types of programs, Christian schools, um things like that in churches, I think that those things can be great youth groups, they can be very, very beneficial. But I think it's really important that parents and churches don't see these things as a replacement for for the for family discipleship, for the father and mother's role in the home, and um, or or even like taking precedent over that. So I think one of the best ways that a church can help the discipleship of the kids and their congregation is by coming alongside those parents and fortifying them and encouraging them through discipleship and and supporting the time that they have to be around the table and have family dinners and um, you know, respecting that need to be home. Yes. And okay. Because it's it's it's really easy to get overcommitted and sign up for all these things. And I think there's such a balance that we need to find because it's so good to be in service and oftentimes serving in these ministries is such a wonderful way to build community, but it it shouldn't take precedent over the home.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:15

Um, you know, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:17

Oh, 100%, because we've got a lot of churches that are like, well, we have Bible bowl on Monday night and youth group on Tuesday night and prayer on Wednesday night and you know, this and that, and and you're expected to be to all of those things, and that can be a real burden on families. So yeah, I think encouraging families like a family worship, making sure that you're doing family worship each night, that you're having dinner together, um, not you know, family integrative worship at church, you know, like we we have a nursery for our younger kids, but making sure that families are in the church service together because what better opportunity is there to disciple your children and for it to even be like as the headship of of the church, but like coming into your home and discussing like what happened in church today? What did you think about this? What was the sermon about? Let's discuss this passage. What was there something that confused you, or you want clarity on? Um, we honestly, when we left the church that we were at and came to this church, our children, you know, we we came from like a big mega church that my late husband and I helped plant. And um, that's another story for another time, but like leaving that and God really removing the veil from our eyes and in in that situation and bringing us to where we're at now, we were concerned, like, what are our children gonna think? Because there's no and we we we've always wanted um a family integrated. Um we were pressured into putting our kids into the children's service. We were the weird ones for wanting our kids out in the service with us. And here at this church, you know, having a family integrative worship service, our children have honestly like we were um really shocked because they were like, no, we like this much better. And the things that they're grasping, even our young ones, the things that they're grasping and understanding and questioning and bringing up, that is such an encouragement and a help for us as a family and the discipleship in our own home to be discussing those things throughout the week.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:16

Yeah, yeah, you guys are all doing it together and experiencing it together instead of everyone going out in different directions. And I I just think when there's that um you as a family are going, doing these things together, that discipleship just becomes so much more impactful. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so we're getting close to our time here. So, Danielle, what kind of children and disciples do you think this kind of community will produce? And how might the church look different in 20 years if mothers embraced this model of discipleship over outsourcing to the village?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:58

Yeah, I think that our entire culture could look totally different. Um I I think that this is obviously we believe this is the biblical model, but we're gonna be having stronger families, stronger homes, the nuclear family being restored, um the um the home being the center of um community, um, our having strong leaders, our children, our hut, our our sons being strong biblical leaders, um, a deeper understanding of God's design for us, our daughters um, you know, manning their post, you know, being proud to be homemakers and home educating their children if they're able to, and um finding finding uh value and worth in this calling, knowing that it is a high and worthy calling that has eternal impact and and standing firmly in that, and that not only is going to shape our church and our community as far as our church community, but that in and of itself, if if Christian families would stand firm, would take back that responsibility and stand boldly in that, that will honestly like we could shape an entire culture because we have become so passive as um as Christians, especially in America, that we have handed so much over to government entities that God had that's not the design that God had for government at all. Um and honestly, like we could change the entire country and in that entire generation and take back um take back our culture for the good and the glory. I mean, I'm post-mill, so I'm gonna say that it's gonna be I'm right there with you, girl. Yeah, building and and building and growing God's kingdom. Like it has eternal impact, and it can all change in one generation if we would just reclaim that and stand boldly in that and raise our children's to be disciples and to not be cogs in the machine of culture, but to truly um to embrace the calling that God has put on their lives and to have an apologetic for their faith and to stand firmly in that.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:20

I love that so much. That's so good, and that's so much my heartbeat of what you know I am trying to do in my home and and just like what I want to communicate to the women through this this ministry. So I'm so grateful for you saying all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:35

Yeah, yeah. If you could oh go ahead. Oh no, nope, you're fine. Oh, okay. I was just gonna say if you could leave one charge to the mothers listening, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

Um, I would say to unapologetically and joyfully live the life that God has called you to. Um, to know that it's the most important and eternal work that you can do, and to be that example to your children and to um the other mothers in your community, and to just be that, be that example in that bright light, to joy do it with a joy and a passion that is worthy of the calling that God has put on your life.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:11

Yeah, I love that. I would just I would add to that kind of what you were saying um about if we were all leaning in, all of us as a generation. I think about that quote from Rebecca Merkel where um she says, imagine if it was if all a drop of rain doesn't do much, but if all of us, with all of us together, it would make a wave. And I I think that all of us in our homes, manning our posts, raising our kids, is going to have massive implications for um for the kingdom of God.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

I so agree with that. That is that's a powerful quote. I love that one too.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:53

And it's such a Yeah, I totally butchered it, but you you know the one.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:01

We literally, mothers literally shape the culture. That is how much importance that being in the home and being a homemaker and and manning your post is, is that you literally get to shape the culture.

unknown 1:20:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:17

Yeah. All right, dear sisters, that's just about all we have time for today. If this episode encouraged you, would you please take just a minute to subscribe and leave a review? Just like we talked about in Acts 2, we're told that the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved. That's still how this kind of community grows, one person at a time. Algorithms are a beast to beat, and we want to get this message out to women, and more importantly, the women who need it most, that biblical womanhood still matters. It's going to take, like I just said, an army of women to do this. So we need you to help us bear the flame. So if this conversation blessed you, would you please take a moment to subscribe, rate the show, and leave a review? It just takes a few seconds, but it makes all the difference to us, and we are so grateful for your support. Also, don't forget to join the Keeping the Citadel magazine community to go even deeper into each theme as we explore here on the podcast. Subscribe, share, and help us build a culture of faith one home at a time. Danielle, thank you again so much for coming on today. I am so grateful that you took the time to have this discussion. I know your wisdom will be such a blessing to the listeners here. So thank you so much, friend, for being a part of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:39

Thank you for having me, Heather. This is a one, this was just I love the conversation and I love what you're doing with Keeping the Citadel. I think that it is much needed and it is a beautiful project. And I just pray that this goes out to all the women that need it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:52

Thank you. Thank you so much. Could you go ahead and tell people where to find you?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:57

Um, I'm on Facebook, uh Danielle Wood, and then I have an Instagram. It's blooming together underscore Danielle. Um, and those are the two places that you can find me.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:08

Okay, awesome. And also, your husband is at Eschatology Matters.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:13

He has a YouTube channel and uh Facebook and an Instagram. Yeah, so you can find him at Eschatology Matters and his new channel, Covenant Matters. Um, if or you know, maybe favorite processurians. Um, you can find them there.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:30

Or yeah, there's there's lots of Reformed Baptists who can enjoy that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:34

Yeah, there's a lot of good, there's a lot of good stuff there, even if you're a Reformed Baptist.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:38

Yeah, yeah, awesome. Well, thank you again so much, and um, I hope you have a great night. With that said, here is my charge to you. Psalm 127, 3 through 5 says, Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb, a reward. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior, are the children of one's youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them. He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate. Mama, your children are not burdens to be managed collectively, they are a rich and glorious heritage. You, out of all the people in the world, were hand chosen to be the caretaker and discipler of your children. No outside program or government system can substitute what you have to offer them. And what you have is priceless. At the end of the day, you are not just a parent, you are a gatekeeper. Will you be the guardian of what raises disciples and influences your kids? Or will you hand over a gate to someone else? Remember, you are raising the price of others. The calling is weak. Don't give up on your kids. Don't outsupport them to others. Ask for help, reach out to others. But do some as well. It's a true covenantal community. Seek out people who will support you in the work you are doing, but not replace you. Come alongside other parents who will reinforce the values you are doing, not undermine them. And when you have humbly received blessings and support from them, be ready to generously rise up and bear their burdens in return. Be a contributor, not a consumer. This is what covenant faithfulness looks like. You don't need a program, system, or a group of professionals to help raise your kids. You just need a body of believers, sharing meals, sharing discipleship, and sharing burdens together. It takes a church, not a village. So have courage in your calling, mama. Don't lose heart when the going gets tough. You are not alone. There is an army of women pushing in the same direction as you. And if together we man our posts and don't give up, just imagine the amount of arrows we will send out. Until next time, embrace your high calling, live a better story, and keep the flame of your citadel burning brightly.