How to Live a Better Story

Why do so many Christian women feel bored, numb, or disconnected from their callings—even while doing all the “right” things?

In this episode, I’m joined by Esther Edmonds of The Feminine Glory Podcast for a deep, honest conversation about awakening from apathy and learning to live with courage as women inside God’s Story. We talk about C.S. Lewis and the dark enchantment of modernity, why comfort has discipled so many of us, and what it means to be a good character in the story God is writing.

If you’ve ever wondered whether your ordinary, unseen faithfulness really matters, this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

The Silver Chair, the sixth book of C.S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia, tells the story of three characters who travel to the underworld to rescue the Prince of Narnia, who has been taken captive and put under the spell of the Witch of the Underworld. When our heroes arrive in the underworld and find their Prince Rillian, the witch discovers them and places them all under a dark enchantment. This enchantment works to make them sleepy and forgetful of who they are, where they are from, and the very mission that Aslan has sent them on. Through clever trickery, she convinces them that there is no Narnia, no sun, and no such thing as lions, let alone anyone named Aslan. That is, she convinces all of them, except for the brave Marshwiggle Puddleglum. As Puddleglum feels the enchantment threatening to overpower him, he musters every bit of strength he has to resist it. Just as his friends were fully submitting their minds to the deception of the witch, Puddleglum wills himself over to a fire in the fireplace, which was the source of the witch's enchantment, and then proceeds to vigorously stomp out the fire with his bare foot, thereby breaking the spell. As the smell of burnt marshwiggle hung in the air, the valiant Puddleglum turned to the witch and said, One word, ma'am, he said, coming back from the fire limping because of the pain. One word. All you've been saying is quite right, I should have wondered. I'm a chap who always liked to know the worst and then put the best face I can on it. So I won't deny any of what you've said. But there's one more thing to be said, even so. Suppose we only have dreamed or made up all those things: trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well, it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that's a funny thing when you come to think of it. We're just babies making up a game if you're right. But four babies playing a game can make a playwor which looks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the playworld. I'm on Aslan's side, even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can, even if there isn't any Narnia. So thanking you kindly for our supper. If these two gentlemen and the young lady are ready, we're leaving your court at once and setting out in the dark to spend our lives looking for Overland. Not that our lives will be very long, I should think, but that's a small loss if the world's as dull a place as you say. What we see in this moment is Puddleglum's declaration of faith. Despite the efforts of the witch to make it seem as though Narnia, Aslan, and the entire Overland was nothing more than a silly dream, Puddleglum emphatically chooses to have eyes to see what can't in that moment be seen. He declares that regardless of her insistence, that all that exists is the gloomy, hollow underworld that they find themselves in. He is going to spend the rest of his life, however long that is, looking for overland. And with his small act of courage, with his steadfast faith, Puddleglum breaks the witch's spell. Our age of modernity is a dark enchantment that is sucking the life out of the awe-filled faith that God calls us to. It has conditioned many of us to not see, think, or imagine anything beyond the solid matter in front of us. We, like Jill, Eustace, and Prince Rillian, have allowed ourselves to become put under a spell and become numb to the world that God has made and the wonder of who He truly is, and have completely forgotten the overland that is calling us home. Will we live asleep and embrace a life of apathy? Or will we, like Puddle Clum, live our lives looking for the overland? Hey friends, welcome back to the Keeping the Citadel Podcast. My name is Heather Faria and I am your host. Today we will be discussing a topic that is really the heartbeat for all the ministry I do, especially what goes on here at Keeping the Citadel. And that is how to not be a bored, or for that matter, a boring Christian. Okay, so what do I mean by that? I mean it's not like being bored is something listed in the fruits of the spirit, or is even something we generally think of when it comes to Christian sanctification. So why is this so important? If you guys have been listening to this podcast for a while, you have heard me say in my sign-off for each episode the phrase, live a better story. But what does it mean to live a better story? Is this something we even have any control over? I mean, we aren't all born into quote unquote exciting or adventurous circumstances, especially those of us that are homemakers. Most of our lives are very mundane and ordinary. That, however, is exactly why I believe this topic is so crucial for us to consider. Today with this episode, we will be beginning a new season of the podcast. And this season will be focused on the theme: what does it mean to live a better story? This ties in with our winner issue that bears the same name. So if you are a current subscriber to the magazine, this will tie in with what you are currently learning throughout that issue. If you are not yet a subscriber, then what are you even doing? Go subscribe now. You can also get the digital version of the Live a Better Story issue in case you missed it and you would like to follow along with that as well. And you can find all that at keepingthecitadel.com. So throughout this season, we will focus on what it means to live a better story and not as bored, apathetic Christians in our marriages, motherhood, and homemaking. In today's episode, we will be kicking off that series by really focusing on the heart of what this means for a woman in her general Christian life. Back to why this should matter to you. You see, all of my life, I have watched the vast majority of the population do a really good job at existing. Rarely, however, do I see people truly living. Very few people live in an intentional way, and even fewer people live with the mindset that their life is telling a story. People like this float through their life as though it were a ride at a theme park, and their only job is to just sit and observe the scenery while they pass through. They make decisions by reacting to what goes on around them and continue going on in the same trajectory they have always been on because their imagination rarely extends outside the status quo. Passivity, not adventure, marks their days. And at the end of their life, instead of a legacy, the only thing they have to leave behind is the pile of stuff they consumed. Christians are by no means excluded from this observation. In fact, they are often the most prone to this phenomenon. I believe that the modern church has for a long time been suffering from a crisis of a lack of true love for Christ. Or to put it another way, we are living in a generation of bored, apathetic Christians. We have become a lazy and cowardly church that is afraid of risk, addicted to comfort, and numb to the grandeur of the story that God is writing. We might know our Bibles, go to church and teach our children to memorize scripture, but do we really love the Lord with all our hearts, soul, and minds? Are we captivated by the wonder of the gospel? Do we see the magic and the world God has made all around us? Do we endeavor to let the theology in our brains permeate every inch of our lives? For the majority of modern Christians today, I would argue that the answer to these questions is probably no. If you have found yourself becoming numb to the reality of the story that God has written for you, perhaps you have never taken the time to come face to face with it. Have you truly taken the time to understand this magnificent masterpiece and all it's worth? Do you see the glory and wonder of it all? Do you recognize that it's not just some far-off narrative of history, but that you have a significant part to play in it? It is this story that should be shaping the entire trajectory of your life and fueling the fire of love within your heart. And so if we are going to come to combat that boredom and apathy, if we are going to learn how to be good characters ourselves, then it is in this story that we must begin. My hope is this episode will inspire you to see your life with renewed vision, wonder, and beauty for the adventure the Creator has prepared for you to journey in and will help you to be courageous enough to live one worth telling. With that said, let's dive into our discussion and introduce our guests for this episode. I am delighted to introduce a very special guest as well as one of the regular contributors to the Keeping the Citadel magazine, Esther Edmonds. Esther Edmonds is one of the co-hosts of the Feminine Glory podcast, as well as the owner of her own company, Esther Ruth Designs, and more recently, the Feminine Glory Store, an online clothing boutique that she runs together with her mom and sister. Her entrepreneurial mind is always pushing her to take on new projects, which she which she uses to bless those around her. You can follow Esther on Instagram at the Feminine Glory Podcast and the Feminine Glory store. So, Esther, hello, welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here. Yeah, I'm so so happy to have you. I I first met Esther and her family online when I began keeping the Citadel. And I was just telling her before we started this recording, but one of the things that drew me to them was that I was just so struck by the way this family is so intentional to really live all of Christ for all of life in everything they do. And so it's just, it's just been an absolute joy getting to know you, Esther, and your family these past several months. And I've been so grateful to have you guys all on board with writing several very fantastic articles for the magazine. So thank you so much for coming on today. And I'm so excited for this chance to talk together. Yeah, of course. Likewise. It's such a blessing to get to speak with you. Awesome. Um, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do, your story?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, so um, like you said, I have a podcast with my sister called the Feminine Glory Podcast, which we started, I believe it was back in May, so it's not even a year old yet. Um, and then shortly after that, we got in contact with you, Heather. Um, and since then it's been such an honor and a privilege to be able to write for the magazine. I've greatly enjoyed that, and it's helped me to um really hone in on my own convictions and to um get to write with several God-honoring women has been an enormous privilege. Um, and then yeah, me and my mom and my sister, we started a clothing store. We just really saw a need among several women around us um that they needed good clothing that they could be able to afford and that would last and that would be good quality and just be extremely classy instead of having to uh, you know, be a slave to the trends of today, um, and having, you know, people that don't view God as a standard for beauty have to be a slave to what they think is beautiful and what they think is now the next hottest thing. And so we decided to start a clothing store to help the women around us to be able to uh dress more modestly and to be able to afford it. And then yeah, I mean, other than that, I um God has just been so gracious to me. He's put me in a very um God-honoring family. I have three other siblings, um, so I'm the second oldest of the group. It's been such a joy to live life with them. And um, yeah, I've been raised a Christian pretty much since I was born. I have really faithful God-honoring parents, which I'm gr so grateful for. And so, yeah, um, that's pretty much who I am.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Awesome. That's so great. Yeah, and I just want to give uh a quick little plug for your store and for your upcoming article, because uh in the issue that we have coming out for spring, Esther wrote a great article about how uh we can have true godly feminine adornment with our clothing, with our appearance, and really just some great practical guidance on how we can think biblically about that. So Esther has a lot of great stuff to say on that topic. And it's been really cool to see you guys actually putting that into action with your stores. Yeah, I was excited for that. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah, it was that one was a that one was actually a particular challenge to write. Um was it? Yes, it was. Out of all of them, that one was actually extremely uh difficult to write. It was one of those things where um I as I was looking at it, I knew that there was a standard for beauty, but trying to then express that definition and to teach it was another complicated level to that. So it was actually I did a lot of growing during that um article. So I was uh really, it was a good good thing for me to um not to do because it was helpful.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Oh, that's good. That's good. Yeah. I well, yeah, I think especially with like what you're doing, that it it helps to have a reason, you know, and just be able to flesh that out. So absolutely. Yeah, awesome. Okay, so today we're gonna be talking about how we can live with courage as women in God's story and really avoiding this trap of boredom and apathy and a loss of wonder in the lives that we live as as Christian homemakers and you know, all the the roles that God has given us as women. And I wanted to have this discussion with you, Esther, because just from listening to your podcast, I feel like this is something I've heard you talk a lot about, about living with courage and being a good character in the story that God is writing for you. And I know this this is something you're very passionate about as well. And so just to start with, when you hear the phrase a bored Christian woman, what comes to mind? And why do you think that so many Christian women do feel numb or apathetic or disconnected from their daily callings, especially like in the home?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, so I think um when I think of a bored Christian woman, I think of somebody who is perhaps idle or not living on mission. They maybe don't know what the mission is, um, why they've been given this specific task. And I think that um it's really easy for a lot of women to feel that way because you know, that is one of the things that Betty Friedan um used to um try to give her promotion of why women should be feminists, um, is that she was um really honing in on the fact that women would feel that way. And so I do think it is a common problem amongst women. Um, but I think that what has happened is they've really lost a sight of why God has placed them in the home in the first place. Um and, you know, maybe they haven't been taught it, so I'm not, you know, just solely blaming it on them. But I think that really it comes from a discontentedness with the life God has given them. You know, it's easy to see the day as monotonous and boring. Um, but I think that if we have in front of us a vision for that, you know, the changing of the diaper every day, making dinner, washing the laundry, um, it's God's plan to grow you into being more like him. Um and all those little moments are little seeds being planted. And if we're faithful to him in those moments, we'll see a tremendous blessing that will be harvested later on down the road. And so I think that um if you have that vision before you, um, then your job as a Christian woman will no longer be boring and because you'll you're going to see that all these little things are going to culminate into your children rising up and calling you blessed.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yes, exactly. That's so good. I uh I really like how you put having the vision before you because this is this is actually really gets to the heart of why I want to do what we're doing here at Keeping the Citadel is I do think that that so many people today don't have that vision of the beauty of one why why our roles as Christian wives and homemakers and mothers and um just general Christian women, why this is significant, what God has called us to, and why it's beautiful and good and um so very different from the way that the the world wants to portray what it is to be a good woman. But also just uh as Christians, that I don't think we have a big enough view of the the vision and story that God is writing in our lives.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Yeah, and I think it's it it's really easy to do. Um but I do think, yeah, I agree with you, I think it is a it is a problem and it's um it is one of the things that you know the enemy will use if you can get your eyes off of the goal, then um you can begin to resent the life you live. You can begin to, you know, hate the the monotony of the day. Um but if you keep the vision before you, keep the joy of the Lord set before you, then you will find joy in the monotony.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yes, yeah, yeah. So what kind of boredom do you most often see in women? And how is this a reflection of the state of the Christian culture today?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah, I think that's a great question. Um again, I think going back to it stems from a lack of mission, but I think that things like resentment are the fruit of the seed. And so um that has already been planted in you because of the lack of the mission. And so if you if you see the day just as like, you know, if you think of it in the terms of I'm just a mom and I have to change one more diaper, I have to, you know, make dinner again, I have to um, you know, whatever the case may be, then you begin to resent your duty and you begin to resent um the people that are um around with you, the people that you're living with um and the people that you serve. Um and so I think that that's kind of the boredom that I most see in women. And I think that again, it goes back to the discontentedness. And then I think in modern Christian culture, um self-profession Christians don't understand again what we're here for, and they've compartmentalized their lives to where, you know, I have my uh faith in a little box and I go to church on Sunday, and then I have my job in another box. And instead of thinking in terms of all of Christ for all of life, and when you think about your life in that way, that Christ then impacts your faith, impacts everything that you do, and you lose that um that standard for your life, um, then what ends up happening is then you do become bored. But if Christ is your standard and you see the dominion mandate and the great commission as your mission as a woman, then you see as a mom how important then your role becomes because then you see I get to interact with these immortal souls every day. Or, you know, if you're a single girl and you go to work and then you're like, I interact with immortal souls every day, and my duty is to make disciples to them every day and to uh be fruitful and multiply and capitalize on what God has given me. And when you see it in that way, then you see how easily then it makes your job way more important than you would have thought about it then, because now the theology is tangible.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Yeah, yeah. I I think what I really hear you emphasizing is just the need for us to have our entire purpose and identity revolving around that that calling and mission that God has on our lives. And I think what I see in Christian culture today so much is just that separation, like what you were saying, where where Christians tend to put things in these different categories and they've got their, you know, spirituality over here in one box, their, you know, maybe personal relationship with Jesus over here, but they're not really seeing how that impacts everything they do. And how when you are really surrendered and and committed to um seeing how Christ transforms everything, that it really impacts all these daily decisions um of how we live and walk in obedience and faithfulness, but also more than that, it gives us meaning to what we're doing. It gives significance to the why uh this is important, like you were saying, like the dirty diaper or the going to a job day in and day out. Why are these things uh significant to the Lord? It's because in these things we're getting to um glorify him and reflect him and live this greater story even in Even in all these mundane things.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then when we do them as unto him, um, then it it doesn't matter, you know, what job it is, as long as it's done unto him, it will bring God glory.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yes. Amen. Um, how do you think it's do you think it's possible to be like outwardly obedient, going through these motions, but still inwardly disengaged? I do, yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

So um when I saw this question, the first uh person that came to mind as an example of this would be Cain. Um you know, so you see him, he's doing the sacrifices, he's being outwardly obedient um to some extent, um, but then you realize that he's not doing it in the proper manner, and you can see clearly that he's just going through the motions. Um, because then, you know, you ask yourself, well, it was a sacrifice, but it wasn't in the way that God intended the sacrifices to be performed. And so then instead of repenting when God rebukes Cain, um, then and you know that he was just going through the motions because then instead of just repenting, then he is jealous, he's provoked to jealousy towards towards his brother and then to the point of murder. And so um then you know that that was not an inward obedience. That was not um he was not being, as you put it, inwardly engaged with God. Um he was just being it was a faux obedience, and so he wasn't truly worshiping. And um, and I think this is also really important to like be, especially for moms, being spiritually engaged with what's going on in your kids. Um, my parents were always checking up on us, and I think um my dad used to do what we called like porch time, and so he would take us out on the porch when he got home from work and he would talk with us about how we were doing and you know, did we have any questions about anything? How is our spiritual walk with God going? And it was a really sweet time where we got to open up and to communicate to him um, you know, maybe difficulties that we were having or doubts, and um, and it really helped us to walk through that and help my parents to be spiritually engaged. Um, because then if you're, you know, just seeking to live a comfortable life, then you know, we don't want to talk about how spiritually we're doing because you know, we might have to repent, and that that does take courage, that does take boldness. And so I think it's really important to stay spiritually engaged with yourself and then to stay spiritually engaged with those around you. Um, because then like Cain, you know, there was some steps that were taken before he was just, you know, provoked to murder. And so I think that if we're spiritually engaged and we um pay attention to our is this just a faux obedience, or is this am I actually being obedient to God? Um am I seeking to please him and having faith in him? Um, then that makes all the difference in the world.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah, that's so good. I I love that example of Cain. While you were talking, it was making me think of um what it says in Romans twelve, how we are spiritual acts of worship and how our entire lives are supposed to be worship. And I I j I just I don't see uh that a lot of people think about that. Um I I think uh broadly speaking, across, you know, American Christian culture, that that um in everything we do, every mundane task, all all these relationships that we have that we're living out, that we are worshiping something every moment of every day. And and so when we're thinking about how we can truly be inwardly engaged, uh we need to ask ourselves, what am I worshiping? What am I serving? Is is my life a spiritual act of worship right now? Am I being transformed by the renewing of my mind? And um I I think that that is so key to really being in tune to the story that God is writing in our own lives and how we can see all these things that we're doing as uh that they matter and that nothing is neutral. There's no part of our day that doesn't matter to the Lord and or no decision that we make of of how we live that should not be influenced by the work of the gospel in our life. You know what I mean? Yep. So true. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Yeah. Okay, so I wanted to transition in my cold open. I share about the story of Puddle Clum and his whole experience of stomping out the fire and and how that broke this dark enchantment that was on Narnia at the time. Let's talk about what he means about this dark enchantment and how does this particularly show up in women's everyday lives.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Yeah, so I think um what Lewis meant by the dark enchantment, I think you mentioned, Heather, in your article as well, that it's uh what he means by that is we're enchanted by modernity, um, whereas Lewis would reference it as uh worldliness. And so um Dr. Rigney actually unpacks this extremely well in his book, Um Live Like a Narnian. If you haven't read it, I would highly recommend it. But so good. But it really is. He does a great job. Um, but a brief version of uh what Lewis was meaning when he meant by uh worldliness was that human beings, what our education has taught our children is to dumb everything down to its scientific fact and remove it from its intrinsic value. And so when we begin to view things in this world um by just their scientific fact um and as something to be um cruelly dominated um that instead of something that indeed has intrinsic value to it, um then that is what he referenced by being darkly enchanted. So we no longer see the world for the way that it truly is. We've somehow blackened the world to see it as now just a um something that is just has no value to it. It's just a fact, it just is. Um kind of like you when you think of evolution, you know, the human being is not an immortal soul, it is now just, you know, atoms floating, you know, in the universe. And so I think that um I think that when we begin to dumb things down to its scientific fact, then we begin to lose that the perspective of the world as being enchanted, as being um God honoring.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yeah, and I I think when people think of, you know, in terms of fairy tales and enchantment and magic, the the the idea in people's heads of of what is enchanted is the magical thing. And they're not um Lewis flips this and says, actually, we're under the spell, we're under this curse that needs to be broken, uh, like you were saying, of modernity, where we're not able to see the magic, we're not able to see the wonder. And I uh this is what I've been getting at with this whole idea of being a bored Christian, because we have become just so, so conditioned to think in this modern naturalistic way that we don't see that this world that we're living in is completely enchanted by the beauty and wonder and and supernatural power of God. And uh, you know, these these things that we read about, these miracles that we read about in scripture, like they they aren't fairy tales. They really happened in real history, in real time, in space. And it's that same God who we read about in scripture with all these fantastical stories that is still working in our life every day, and that still makes these amazing miracles of seeds springing into sprouts and flowers and um you know, the sun, the sun rising and setting every single day and seasons changing, and just all the magnificent things that we see in the world, we we are numb to the beauty and awe of it all. And what we really need as Christians is in instead of reducing um our our vision of what we see the world to be is have bigger eyes to see. Um, it makes it makes me think of that quote from from C. S. Lewis again, where he talks about the the day at sea. Where he says, Yes, yeah, you know, the child does not desire the day at sea because he's so busy playing in the mud. Yep. And that we're so easily pleased. You know, we're too easily pleased, we're too easily satisfied with what's in front of us. And so we don't have this passion and thirst for the things of God, for seeing what He is doing in our lives and and how that really makes all these things we do from the dishes to child training to um you know, grocery shopping, all these things that we do that that it matters and that it there that there is this inherent beauty in it, and um we're just far too easily satisfied.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. And I think that um, you know, we as women, we have stopped seeing that magical world like like we were talking about, like Christ turned water into wine. Like if you just stop and think about what that might have been like at that wedding feast, like that would have been crazy. Um, and that's still the same God that we serve today. And so as we prepare food for our families, as we um, you know, serve our bosses, as we do whatever we're doing, if you are then holding that bitterness and that resentment, if you dumb it down to just, you know, I'm just getting to do this, um, then you stop seeing the awe and wonder at like you are serving and um living with immortal souls that are gonna live on for eternity. And, you know, like Lewis says, that um they'll be so magnificent that you'll have a temptation to worship it. And so, you know, if we think about it in those terms, or like the simple candlelight dinner um as a feast for Narnians that are gonna have to go off and take that joy into the world, um, it takes on a whole new meaning when you imagine what it could be, um, which indeed adds more meaning to what it actually is.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Yes. Yeah, that's so good. So, in the article that I wrote in this past issue where we're discussing this topic, uh I talk about the need for Christians to see their lives in light of a story and the story of redemption. One thing that Lewis talks about a lot is the need for fairy tales and myth to communicate these deep Christian truths and to help communicate to Christians their their role in this story. So, why why do you think that fairy tales and myth help communicate these truths for us as Christians? How how how are these valuable to us?

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yeah, so I think that um one of the things was what was interesting was that um Narnia began um for Lewis as like an image and then they continued to bubble into something more. And um Lewis actually believed that then the best way to communicate that image was through a fairy tale. And then through that, then the byproduct became the Christian truth. Um, but Lewis was a man that was deeply disappointed with the way that we try to teach children, and um he believed that they would learn um n they wouldn't learn as well if you just gave them fact after fact after fact and said he believed that a story was the best way to communicate with them. And so um I think that's true in our own lives. I think if you look at our lives, like you were saying, as a story, um, then we begin to see that it's the Lord's sovereign hand at work here and that we are in his play and that we are image bearers of him. And so when we begin to look at our own lives as a story, um, then we begin to see how we can glorify and reflect him and reflect the greatest story of all time.

unknown 34:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

I don't know if that answers your question.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Oh yes, no, it it it 100% does. And when it when it comes to to stories, it's not just a teaching tactic or you know, some kind of mind trick we're playing, because this is this is literally what we see in scripture through the story of redemption from creation, fall, redemption, and consummation. This is this is what God has written into the construct of the universe. This is how he ordained to bring us the gospel. And um and I think a lot of times that's just lost on on a lot of Christians because uh we can, like you were saying before, compartmentalize these aspects of our faith without seeing how it's connected to the entire story of the gospel. And so um when we when we are talking about using stories as a way to teach these things to our children, we're not just talking about some kind of um, you know, teaching tactic that is, you know, fun and no, try this. It's like, no, this is actually what God does with us, you know, what our savior did when he was when he was telling parables. And this is how he incarnates truth to us. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah, and I I mean the Bible in and of itself, like God is the word, and so he has chosen to communicate through us by speaking to us of himself. And you know, if Christ is the word, then we need to think about how then um his story then is him communicating himself to us, and so then it really takes on a whole new meaning. And it honestly, stories ingrain in you better. I don't know what it is about the story in and of itself. Um, you know, such knowledge is too high for me. I cannot attain to it. But uh, but I don't know why the Lord desi desired to make us that way. But uh there honestly, when I read a story um of anything, it really sticks in me better than even my own life memories. Um Andy is really Indy Wilson is really fond of saying that, and I think it's com 100% true. Um when you read something, it really does just the memory sticks with you and it will um teach you and it will train you. It shapes your soul.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yes, absolutely. Yes, I love that. I he is so great on this whole topic. Yes. Yeah, um, yes, and exactly like we he is the word. I I talk about that in the article as well, that um that is really what it means that that Christ became incarnate, that he is the word made flesh. He he takes words and he translates it into what we can taste and see, so that we can taste and see that the Lord is good. I know that all these truths of scripture, these these doctrines that are they are the substance that we that that we build our lives upon. But I know that it's the story, it's it's the seeing him at the center as the hero, as the the conqueror who who crushed the serpent, who is coming again, who brought me into his kingdom. Those are the things that that create that love in my heart for him. It's it's the the loving the author and the seeing that he has written me into this and my little life that's so ordinary that um that just makes me filled with worship for for who he is and and what he is doing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay, so I want to um talk about how does the Dominion mandate apply to women in everyday life and home and culture.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah, so I think um it really affects it because if you think about no matter where you are, um whether you're a single person with just an apartment, or you know, if you're still living with your parents, or whether you're a wife with no kids or a mom, your job is to be fruitful and multiply. And then in addition to that, um the Great Commission, which is make disciples um of all the nations. And so we do that by reflecting our creator. And so we need to make things beautiful, we need to make things joyful. Being fruitful and multiply, um, I think has been um dumbed down in our culture to just mean um have kids, and it does mean to have kids, and it's a beautiful and it's a glorious thing, but it means be fruitful and multiply in everything that you do, and so to turn a profit on everything that you've been given, and so um, and then taking dominion no matter where you are. So, you know, taking care of the outside, taking care of the inside, making sure that it is beautiful, making sure that it reflects God, making sure that your life reflects God is indeed uh being fruitful and it is multiplying. And when you do that and when you reflect God and you are a walking, walking beacon of truth, then you will begin to make disciples because then people look at you and they say, like, hey, you're different. What's what's with the hope that lies within you? Why are you so joyful? Um, and you can say, like, it's because of my maker, it's because of my God. And when they look at your life, they need to be able to see that you truly believe what you say because your life is now a reflection upon God and you're making a theology tangible that way.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yes, that's so good. Yeah, and and women are translators, and so I think uniquely for us as women, we have been given the ability to take the things um that that God has created, or that say our husbands are um like the income that He is bringing in, and then we are able to translate those things into something um tangible and beautiful and creative. And these are all ways that we as women have the unique ability to take dominion and glorify and reflect who God is in these everyday things in our homes. Absolutely. How do how can seeing your life as a story and having the hope of future restoration bring dignity to the work of homemaking and motherhood and just the unseen work that we do as women?

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah, so when you I feel like when you look at your life um as a story that God is writing, you are um in the play that He is orchestrating, it really adds a joy to your life. I don't at least for me, if I woke up every day thinking that um the life the world that I live in, um, the story was supposed to bring glory and honor to me, it would be a very dull and disappointing place to live in. I would be discontented every day because that's not how the Lord operates. That's not how his play works. And so when we see our lives not as being the main character, but as a supporting role, it really dignifies what you do because you see that your job, um, you get the opportunity to serve others in their story as they seek to give glory to God in their own lives. And um we're full of hope for a better world because we are Christians and um we do believe that Christ will that Christ has conquered the world and that um Christ will um uh save the world and he will renew it and he will make it perfect and complete. Then um as we view that hope, then we realize that as um characters in someone else's story, we get to provide the wonderful opportunity to give them a glimpse of what that world might be like as we seek to beautify the lives that we've been given as we seek to serve our God and our creator. Um and you know, he sees, he hears, and he knows. And so um all of those little moments, all those little things, even if people don't see them, they will eventually be made known. And what we sow, we shall also reap. And so um that's a promise from God and that works both ways. So what you're sowing now, in the way that you order your life and the way that you um the way that you act as a character, you will eventually reap that reward or that that consequence, um, you will receive that punishment in either way that you sow. And so I think when we begin to see our whatever we do as little seeds being planted, then we can see that um we know that in the end we're setting um ourselves up on a trajectory and you know, your children will rise up or call you blessed, or they won't, and they will be they'll hate the home and they'll be embittered by it.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Yeah, yeah, that's really good. I also really like how you talked about being good characters in other people's stories because I think this um is such a great way for us to frame the way we see ourselves and how we're living, because I I think we can tend to think of ourselves as the hero of the story and um Christ is the hero. Um, and we are characters in his story, and that means that we're also going to be side characters in other people's stories. And and what kind of you know, character do we want them to think of us as? Uh well, I think when we see when we see ourselves as the heroes, uh, our lives become really for our benefit, for our happiness, for our personal plans and and gain. Um, but but the way you were talking about it with being a good character in someone else's story, you see yourself as how am I benefiting and blessing these other people through my actions.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Yeah, and I think if and ultimately, you know, our lives are meant to serve God. And so if we look at it in that way, um, it does provide meaning and joyfulness to our lives because ultimately if you do view the world as, you know, it needs it exists to serve you and exists to make you comfortable, then you will be very disappointed. Um even in, you know, marriage. I know several girls who thought that marriage was gonna fulfill them and then they got married and you know, then all of a sudden they're in counseling, like what happened? And it was because ultimately they were seeking marriage to fulfill them, and then they got married and realized that it only um expounded upon their already discontented lives.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yep, yeah, yeah, that's very good. Okay, so one thing that I have heard you talk about a lot on your podcast and um especially like in light of what's going on in our culture today and um America uh is is this whole topic of courage and what it looks like for us to live lives of courage and versus comfort. So why why is courage such a neglected Christian virtue today? And how do you see comfort as an idol for many believers?

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Yeah, so um I think, especially in the South where I live, um we have adopted what is called the 11th commandment, um, which is be nice. And I think that is really You know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Yep. And I think they don't believe in that here in California. No, I'm just kidding, it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Um, but I think that it really what it stems from is this uh lack of the true meaning of love. And so when you truly love something, you'll stand up for it. And I think that um the reason why it's difficult to uh be courageous, it's difficult for it's why it's been such a neglect in our Christian community is because um that we we seek comfort over courage. And so um I think that what has happened is that um you know people see that you know there are consequences to speaking the truth. Like things happen, you know, we will be persecuted, we will suffer when we are speaking the truth. And um and so it does, it's hard. It's not comfortable, it makes people very uncomfortable to um speak the truth. And so, but when you realize that your life is not your own, going back to what we were talking about, and that you were created to reflect Christ and take dominion in his name and to serve others, then you cease um to think that that then this world was created for you, and then you become very loyal to the love of Christ, and then you will stand for truth, and you will stand, you will go and confront your brother or sister in Christ because you love them and you see that they're walking down this very unhelpful and sinful road. And so you see them and you and your love for them, you're willing to um, you know, do the uncomfortable thing, you're willing to be courageous. But in this culture of be nice, um, we think that, you know, being a good Christian means not creating any problems, just doing what you're told, and basically just being a yes person.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I think that completely uh dissolves our courage and resolve. Uh, I think also just the the way that we as Americans are, and I know there's other people listening to this podcast who are um from other countries, and so I'm sure this is universal, but how we are conditioned to just pursue our own happiness and and that that's somehow what our purpose in life is, is finding our happiness, following our hearts. And we've really fundamentally lost what we were made for. And um, we are made for pouring ourselves out, for laying our lives down. And I think when you have when your mind is able to shift from what am I for, I'm actually for pouring myself out, not for preserving my personal comfort. It um I think it definitely can help with that when when you know you're in those moments where the rubber meets the road and it's like, okay, it's a do or die. Like when you know that you're there for the purpose of pouring yourself out, it can help give you that courage in those moments to do the hard thing and and to sacrifice yourself despite what the cost might be. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

And you know, it you're more apt than when you think of it that way, to then do the hard thing of disciplining yourself, and then if you're, you know, a mom or a parent disciplining others in order and taking the time to, you know, explain to your child or even walk through yourself of the repentance and um realizing that you have sinned, then you have the courage to admit that, and you have the courage to walk through that with your kids because you have a deep love for them and you want to see them um again, going back to we're side characters, and so you want to help spur them on, and so and it does require a courage in order to um discipline and to even discipline yourself um and to admit that you were wrong.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, there's this quote I want to read, it's from it's also from Andy Wilson. We mentioned him earlier, but it says, Lay your life down, your heartbeats cannot be hoarded. Your reservoir of breaths is draining away. You have hands, blister them while you can. You have bones, make them strain. They can carry nothing in the grave. You have lungs, let them spill with laughter. I just love that so much because I think it's it's like this is what we're supposed to do. This is what it means to really live. This is what it means to live a life that is worthy and and a story that is worth telling. Yeah, absolutely. Couldn't have put it better. Yeah. Okay, so we talked um, we talked about being good at side characters, but how can we just in general be good characters in the story that God is writing in our lives? What are kind of some practical things that we can put into action that, especially in terms of our our roles as women that God has given us, how can we practice being good characters in the stories that God has for us?

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Yeah, I think um one of the things would be what we talked about earlier, keep the joy of the Lord set before you. Um, have your eyes on the prize. Um, and so run the race well. Um, know that this is not going to last forever. We all will eventually die. Um, but while we're here, let's live like true Narnians. Let's be joyful, be winsome, be brave, be full of laughter, um, give great feasts, laugh over the scanty meals, defeat the white witch out there and in ourselves, and um never cease to be amazed um by this world that we live in, and never cease to be amazed by uh the God who rules it. And I think that um, you know, practically how you can flesh that out is again, you know, just delight over the meals that you share over with your family, light the candles and make your life enjoyable, make it a wonderful place to be, make your homes a wonderful place to be where people long to be there and um, you know, look at the eyes of your family and talk with them and you know, scheme over how to defeat the white witch and um you know just enjoy life to the fullest. And when you enjoy your life so much, then when the lives of others are going to be threatened, then you will have this readiness to die knowing what you are leaving behind. So, you know, giving the pri other people the privilege to enjoy this life to the full and knowing that seeing the people in front of you um and knowing that what you're fighting for and having a true love of that will help you to be able to face anything.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

That is so good, Esther. I love that so much. Yes, and joy it's joy. Joy is so crucial to everything that we're doing. It's this joy in the Lord. And I I would also just add love, loving the author, and that we can't we can't um appreciate what we're doing and what we have if we if our love is cold. And and so when our hearts grow numb, we're not going to love him well, we're not going to love our people well, and and we certainly won't be exhibiting that joy that you were just talking about. And and being able to reflect that wonder in our homes and in the things that we are setting our hands to. Absolutely. Okay, I want to go ahead and transition here to how what are some ways that we can impart these truths to children? I know like you're not a mom yet, but you are a daughter, and maybe you can share some of the ways that um what just what are some ways that your parents have imparted this to you? And what are some practical ways that you think that we can impart these truths to our children? Oh raise them with this type of mindset.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

So my parents, um, first of all, they always put before us um wonderful stories. So even when we couldn't read, they were reading to us nonstop. Um actually, that was where I first got introduced to the Narnia stories was my dad read them to us and I couldn't wait for the next chapter. Um even though I was scared, I couldn't wait for the next chapter. Um but uh so yeah, I would say definitely put before your children good stories. Um again, like we've sp spoken about earlier, that will um sink in their minds more than you think. When things like that are put before them, it will stick with them. And when there is, when it comes their moment to stand, they will remember um that story of how Shasta, you know, even though he was yelling at Aslan, he was still standing up for the girl. Um, and so he didn't know exactly what he was standing up against, but he was doing the right thing in that moment. And so I think that, you know, um Edmund at the end, what a redemptive moment standing up against As uh standing up against the White Witch. And so I think that m stories like that do help shape them. So stories would be a big one. Um I also think they just made life fun. Um, they made home a wonderful place to be. Like I didn't want to leave it. And I think that when we do that, when we ourselves enjoy life, the children will pick up on that. Um they they notice what you love and what you hate. They are looking for you for cues of what's good and what's beautiful. And so um, you know, my mom would make big feasts for us, like Christmas Day. There's this big feast on the table with all of our favorite snacks. And um, and so I think just the enjoyment of life, lots of dancing. Lots dancing was a big thing in our house. Um, singing, singing psalms, singing country music while working in the garden.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Um there's we do too.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

It's great. And um, and you know, our our family motto has been uh work hard, play hard. And so that you know, work the and that's the way that God has instituted instituted the world, you know. So we have um six days where we really we work really, really hard, and then on the seventh day we rest on the Sabbath. And so um I think if you live like that, then it makes the hard moments joyful and it makes um and it really just puts a huge meaning on your life and your kids will love what you love, and they it really does make theology theology tangible for them, um, because you're seeing like taste and see that the Lord is good. And if your father on earth knows how to give you great gifts, how much more so does your heavenly father? And that's been a huge thing for me. What I've noticed with my family is that they have given me great gifts, and so I can't imagine what gifts God might give me because you know, our my parents have just tried to imitate God so well. It's been a huge joy living my life with them, and so yeah, I would just say those would be a few. And then also, um, one more thing would be reading together God's word. So my mom, when we were kids, would you know have we'd have our daily devotion with her in the morning, and then we would also go off and when we could read, um, we do a chronological daily Bible reading, and that has been extremely huge um for me and my family to do together because then we could talk about what we read that day at the dinner table, and so that would be a big one as well because it just kind of puts an emphasis on what you're trying to practice in your own lives.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Yes. Oh my goodness, those are all so good. And uh what you're doing is you are creating a family culture. And these are the things that, you know, identify you as being part of your, you know, of the Edmonds family or in my family, the Fria family. And these things become a part of who you are. And um I think so many of the things that you mentioned are how we are training the affections of our children. We are we are training them what to love and what to see as beautiful. And this is something actually that's gonna be a huge focus in the next magazine, the spring issue that is um called The Battle for Beauty, but where these beautiful things that we are doing, they matter so much. And and like you were saying, the meals shared around the table and having fun in the garden and the work that we're doing and dancing and music, all these beautiful things matter because they are a reflection of the creator. They're pointing to him and what God is like. And so these these this atmosphere that we're creating in our home, it's all for the purpose of showing them that this is what God is like. And actually, Jesus is better. And so if you guys think this is good, like you were saying, like how much better is Jesus, how much better is heaven going to be? And um, that's the kind of stuff that just when I think of of the story that I'm living now, uh, how it stirs my heart with longing for this the better story that is to come, you know, and and and how God is going to have this grand crescendo to it all. And um that's that's what I want to stir in my children's heart and what I want them to take from our home and and for them to see to see all of that, you know. So I just love I love that about you guys, and um I I can just give a really hearty amen to that. That is definitely what I endeavor to to cultivate in the lives of my kids. And I just hope that when they're all grown that they they can say the same things you say about your parents. I'm sure they will. Yeah, well, Lord willing. Um okay, so as we bring this to uh a conclusion here, I want to talk about just how we can finish well and and living in a way that is where eternity is shaping how we are living. So, what would you say about how we can guard our against growing bored with the gospel over time?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

Yeah, so I think um just keeping God's word before you. So um through teaching, preaching, daily reading, when you put God's word and God's story before you constantly, I don't know about you, but at least for me, um, every time I go and read the Bible again, I pick up on things that I never picked up on before. And it just stuns me. I'm just you know, I'm I'm awed by it. And um, and so I think um if you are constantly washing yourself by the water of the word, then you will be changed by it and you will be awed by it. Um, but I think too, again, it goes back to the imagination, like we've been talking about, it's a lot of gratitude, like just thinking through um what kind of a world you get to live in, and it will never cease to be boring. Like if you just constantly are grateful for the life that you live, um, you know, for the food that you get to prepare. I mean, like, even the fact of if you think through as you peel an orange, like the Lord created an orange. Like it has this orange skin on the outside, and then the inside is this great delectable fruit that you can peel apart into little sections that's already kind of pre-made for you, and you get to enjoy it, and it's juicy and it's glorious. And um, if you just stop and think about what you get to enjoy, what you get to delight in in this world, um, it never ceases to be boring.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Yes, that's so good. And what would you say to a woman who feels spiritually numb or stuck in the monotony of her her home and her life? What where where should she begin if she wants to wake up and live differently?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

Yeah, so I um I think it would go back to again being grateful, but then also I would say for me, one thing that has really altered how I um view my life is just speaking with God first thing when I wake up. Um, you know, even something as simple as um, Lord, behold your maidservant. Um that what that tells me immediately from the beginning of the day is my life is not my own, and I am living for the Lord. So Lord, show me how I can best serve you today. And that completely alters my perspective on the day, and it gets me ready for the day, and um I can find joy in it looking to see what the Lord will have in store for me to do. And so I think simple things like that of just, you know, talking to the Lord, like it doesn't have to be this um, you know, this really holy moment where you're, you know, on your knees by beside your bedside, taking a moment to pray before the Lord, like you can pray any time of the day. And so um just constantly keeping um the Lord before me and praying to him constantly and thanking him. Um, you know, if the if I sense bitterness or resentment within myself or an ingratitude, just you know, praying for the L praying to the Lord and thanking him for what he has given me um has been a tremendous blessing even in my own life.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

Yeah, that's so good. I I do something similar and I pray that the Lord will establish the work of my hands so that um whatever I'm setting my hands to, that I'm doing it with all my heart for his glory and that it's actually what he wants me to do for the day, not just my plans for the day. Amen. Yeah, I completely agree. That's awesome. Uh and another thing I was thinking too, one of my husband's favorite verses is uh from Proverbs. I don't know the exact reference right now, but it says it is a glory of uh keen to search something out. Um I'm probably paraphrasing it, but it's this idea that it is our glory to search out and be curious and have wonder for this world that God has created, kind of like what you were saying with how every time you open the word and you are always discovering new things that that God has written into it. And um, he's created this world is so amazing, and there's so many things for us to discover. And and he didn't make a lot of them, I mean, he did make a lot of them obvious, but a lot of them are hidden, and we actually have to go out and and find that amazing mystery. Uh, we see this so much in and the scientists who discover some, you know, amazing thing, and um nobody knew about this before, or um, you know, artists who are translating something into a a beautiful poem or um painting. And I think it is our our glory to go out and discover with curiosity and and and zeal and enthusiasm, go out and find these things that God has written into the world, that God has written into your life, because your life really isn't boring. If you have the eyes to see it, if you have eyes of wonder, you'll find that your life actually is amazing and um when it's lived for him and when it's seen through the lens of our creator and great author.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:20

Absolutely, yeah. And I I mean one of those was even as I was um reading up on Lewis was that um in I believe it's in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, the Romandu is um talking about how he's a star and how he's um he's a retired star and then he'll he'll go back up into the heavens. And um, but what's interesting about that, and Dr. Rigney unpacks this in his book, is that um there actually is a case that the stars could be angelic beings. And so if you stop for a moment and imagine, you know, what things around you could be, um, then it really does create this awe and this wonder of looking at the world. In this enchanted way, really does work to break the enchantment. The dark enchantment.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

I love that. So good. So good. Well, I think that's a good place for us to leave it today. Esther, thank you so much uh for coming on here and having this discussion. I feel like we could talk about this so much longer. Oh yeah. Um that I know, I know you've got to go. And I just appreciate so much uh what you had to share today and your encouragement and um just the way that you model what it is to be a woman who lives a better story. Well, thank you. It honestly has been such a pleasure to talk with you and I've enjoyed it a lot. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Have a great day. You too. All right, friends, we're gonna leave it there for today. If this episode strengthened or encouraged you, I'd be so grateful if you'd subscribe and leave a review. As we step into a new year, my prayer is to see keeping the Citadel grow and reach women who need to be reminded that biblical womanhood is still good, still beautiful, and still worth fighting for. This mission isn't meant to be carried alone. It takes many faithful hands, and that includes yours. So would you please just take a brief moment to share this episode with your friends and to let them know about what we're doing here? Thank you so much for your support and for standing with us. And if you want to go deeper, be sure to uh join the Keeping the Citadel magazine community where we expand on each theme and bring practical discipleship into everyday life. Right now, you still have time to subscribe to our spring issue, The Battle for Beauty, but don't wait too long because orders for that issue close on February 15th. So subscribe, share, and let's continue building strong homes for the glory of God. With that said, here's my charge to you. You have a choice: apathy or adventure, passivity or pursuit, victimhood or victory. The world is full of brainless sheep content to maintain the status quo. You were put here for a purpose, to glorify God and enjoy him forever. To truly love God, you must be willing to give everything, to let Him shape and change everything about your heart, your actions, the words you say, and even the very thoughts you think. Are you ready to obey that call? Do you know what it means to truly love the author of your story? You don't get to choose the story you are given, but you do get to choose how you will live it. It may be that your story is painful, full of difficulty, or challenging characters. The author knows and he wants to tell a better story through you: a story of redemption, a victory, and a beauty. Don't be afraid to trust the author. He is dangerous, but he is good, and he is always safe to trust. What kind of characters will you choose to be? Will you let your story be one that brings the author glory? Or will you bring shame to the one whose name you bear? Will you be content to live a life of mere survival? Or will you let your blood, sweat, and tears be the sacrifice you embrace? Awaken, O sleeper, from your dark enchantment. Open your eyes to see the true enchantment he has written through the word made flesh, and let the wonder of who he is never leave your soul. If the chapter you're in feels too much to bear, if you can't see how the story could possibly get any better, have courage to your heart. Remember, the one who made the stars, who split oceans into, who walked on water and out of a grave is the same one holding you. Your story isn't over yet. It's just beginning. Until next time, embrace your high calling, live a better story, and keep the flame of your citadel burning brightly.