Take Courage: Faithfulness in the Hard Years of Homeschooling

 What does it look like to take courage in the hard, ordinary days of homeschooling—especially with pre-teen and older children? In this episode, I’m joined by Mystie Winkler to talk about faithful motherhood when the days feel heavy, the resistance is real, and your expectations aren’t being met. We discuss cultivating a convivial homeschool, addressing sin in older children, and why the rhythm of repent, rejoice, repeat is essential for building a life-giving home.  If you’re weary, this conversation will remind you how to take heart and keep moving forward. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Efficiency and business-like frankness are my style. But they can also be my excuse for squashing childlike joy and enthusiasm, which is often oh so loud and messy. While my job is to bring my children into maturity and prepare them for adulthood, it is my children's place to remind me that such are the kingdom of God. When God's kingdom comes in full with Christ's return, there will be a feast, the marriage supper of the Lamb. If all a feast makes me think of is work and dishes and stress, I am not prepared to enter a feast at all. How will all the people around that glorious table relate and behave? Will it not be with smiles and laughter and bright shining faces? Ought not our homes to be, at least sometimes, a small foretaste of that feast? Can I stop to see the faces, to enjoy the people, to celebrate the salvation we have without thoughts of the work involved or the piles of unfinished projects and neglected clutter? If I can, I am being convivial. To be convivial is to enjoy good company. To be characterized by merry celebrations, to be festive. If you know your Latin roots, you can spy with and life smashed together in the etymology of the word. It's not only that conviviality is lively and full of life, it is that life with others is lively. It is a festive life lived in company with others. Conviviality reminds me that atmosphere is key. An atmosphere is my job as mother and homemaker and host. Whether I'm hosting a basic family dinner or a feast of ideas. When I can pause and enjoy life, I build an atmosphere of joy, which is the best atmosphere for learning. The atmosphere of our home has much more to do with my attitude than with our decor. So conviviality must be my goal. I love my goals, but goals themselves are only means to an end, while the people around me are eternal souls. Created in the image of God and designed to worship in all things forever. As am I. Conviviality reminds me that the Bible's hospitality commands include my husband and children and everyday life, not just guests and holidays. Making a home and providing an education is about building up people, not churning out a product. Convivial must describe our learning and living together. When we worry about or are haranged about socialization, we are usually thinking about how our kids will get along with random peers. Real socialization, however, comes not from peer groups, but from family. Home is where we first learn how to treat people, how to love them, how to serve them. Conviviality is true socialization. Living a life of companionable learning alongside one another. Each one of us is learning and growing and maturing. Though we are at different stages and sometimes learning different things, we're all in this thing together, brothers and sisters in Christ, even while mother and children are in the home. Excerpt from the Convivial Homeschool by Misty Winkler. As a child who was homeschooled, and now as a homeschool mother, I can't tell you the amount of times I have heard people say, Oh, I can never do that. I don't have enough patience, or I can't be with my kid for that long. Any mother who is homeschooled understands the amusement we all share when we hear comments like this. Because we know that there is no special personality that is required to be a homeschooler. There's no sacred amount of patience that was bestowed upon us before we signed up for the journey. Any patience and fortitude within us is something that the Lord grew in us over time. We are all born with a natural bent towards self. But the gift of homeschooling is that it bends us out toward our children. It stretches us in ways we did not think were possible. We don't homeschool because we are better or more capable than other people. We homeschool because the process of it all makes us better for our children. Women tend to love predictability. We like to put our trust in systems and outcomes that have measured results. But the dangerous thing about homeschooling is that we don't always know what the outcome will be with our children. That's why it requires faith. That's why it requires courage. If we are to be the kind of women who don't play it safe, who live a better story, then we must be willing to take the risks that matter most. And what matters more than our children's education? What matters more than those immortal souls who have been entrusted to you? May we be the kind of women who don't hold back out of fear of discomfort, but who are willing to be stretched, to pursue virtue, and live with courage for our children. If you are someone who is struggling with fear or discouragement in your home educating journey, my hope is that this episode emboldens you to strengthen your muscles of courage and fortitude for the daring adventure of homeschooling. May you be inspired to pursue a life of festivity, joy, and conviviality with your children today. If you're new here, we're currently in a series called How to Live a Better Story, which pairs with our winter magazine issue of the same name, exploring what it looks like to live faithfully for Christ in every area of life. Today we will be diving into what it looks like to live a better story in our homeschooling and how we can embrace courage in those tough seasons when we want to throw in the towel. Each series of the podcast is designed to go hand in hand with a magazine, helping you go deeper into these truths. So if you haven't subscribed yet, you can head over to keepingthecitadel.com and sign up now. You can purchase every single one of the past digital issues. But when you sign up for a print subscription, you'll also receive a free digital issue of the most recent issue as well. Make sure when you sign up for that print subscription, you use the code FREESHIPPING. That's free shipping, all in caps, for free shipping on your first order. And if this podcast has encouraged you, I'd be so grateful if you took a moment to subscribe, leave a review, and also please share with your friends. It truly helps us reach more women and encourage them to embrace their God-given roles with purpose, conviction, and joy. All right. With that out of the way, let's get into today's conversation. Today I am delighted to introduce a guest that I'm sure many of you are very familiar with. And if you're not, you absolutely need to be Misty Winkler. Misty, welcome to the podcast. It's so fun to have you here. Thank you so much for having me, Heather. Awesome. So, Misty, for those who don't know you, can you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell listeners a little about yourself and your story?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Yeah. So my husband and I are both second generation homeschoolers. So we were homeschooled back in the 80s when, you know, you couldn't go play during school hours because the police might stop you and ask what you went to school.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Yeah. We didn't go to the grocery store until after school and all that kind of stuff. And then we have five kids, three of whom we've graduated from our homeschool, and we're still homeschooling two, uh, high schooler and a middle schooler left at home.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

That's so fun. I am also a second generation homeschooler. So that's something that I find really fun in your writings that I've read from you. Just that there's not a lot of people these days who you meet who actually are second generation homeschoolers. It seems like most people are venturing into this for the first time. So yeah, yeah. I I have too, and they're still very much in the throes of the homeschooling. So I've got a lot to learn from you. All right. So you you just wrote an article for Keeping the Citadel for our winter issue, which was fantastic. Thank you so much for doing that. And your article was titled Courageous Homeschooling. So in your article, you describe courage as a frame of mind, not a personality trait. So, what does that look like for a mother in the middle of a hard homeschool day?

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Yeah, well, I mean, it's good news that courage is not a personality trait. It's not something that some people are just born with and other people don't have. It is um what C.S. Lewis says, it's not itself a single virtue so much as every virtue at the testing point. So every test, every temptation requires courage to choose the right thing. So there is no courage unless there is some kind of difficulty in choosing the right thing. If everything was easy, then we wouldn't need courage. Yeah. So even the fact that we need courage kind of presupposes the fact that there is going to be difficulty along the way. So difficulty isn't necessarily even a problem. It is what's in front of us to tackle that you know we need courage for. And courage in its roots is was taken from the French for heart. So to take courage is to take heart. So it's not like grin and bear it or like just buckle down. It is like having your heart enlarged. It's having a big enough perspective to see that it's worth it to do the hard right thing instead of just take the easy way out.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah, yeah. It makes me think of in the voyage of the Dawn Treader when Lucy sees the albatross and Aslan tells her to have courage to your heart. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And that's actually that was a big inspiration for me starting keeping the Citadel was that particular scene. Because I want to really inspire women to take that courage that you're talking about in the face of these really challenging and scary things that we face, these and even just hard things that we face as moms. Yeah. Yeah. So you talk about taking heart from Christ rather than ourselves. I think this is so crucial for us to remember because we often tend to think of courage as pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps and just that whole mentality. So, how do we actually train ourselves to take courage from Christ?

SPEAKER_03 11:42

Yeah. It's easy to fall into that, like pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality. And even when we talk about um taking heart from Christ, like it's training ourselves to still even that can feel like it's like it's something I have to do. And taking heart from Christ means recognizing that we can't do it, it's not something we do for ourselves, it is aligning our heart to Christ's heart, which is a move of humility and um and to trust. Because if when we're at that moment where something is difficult and the right thing to do is difficult, then doing the easy thing or letting ourselves off the hook or you know, going off is um going to lead to more pain and heartache down the road. Like it seems easy in the moment, but it in the long run, it's hard, harder. We're making it harder on ourselves in the long run. And but in that moment, it is a testing point. And the test is will you trust Christ in this moment when things are hard? Um and we demonstrate our trust by obeying Him. So it's not like us pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps, we're going to figure out the right thing and do the right thing all on our own. We um know the right thing to do from scripture. Um and so we choose to obey because we trust that God knows what he's doing instead of thinking like we have to have it figured out. We trust that his plan will work out rather than trying to make things, you know, we can have different kinds of plans. And sometimes our plans are good plans and sometimes they aren't. But when the choice before us is yell at our child or, you know, do something, you know, all our temptations, our difficulties, choosing to follow God's word is sometimes going to be difficult. And it's doing it in that moment when it's hard, not when it's easy, where we require courage. And that's when we're actually walking by faith.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Because faith means walking in trust and not by sight. So walking by faith is doing the right thing when it it's not what you would have chosen.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah. It makes me think of just the act that we are called to of dying to ourselves and submission. I and I I think that's not something that people tend to really think of when they think of courage. It's it really is this whole being brave mentality. But when it comes right down to it, it's submitting to the Lord's will and trusting that what He is calling us to move forward in obedience in is what we need to submit to, whether we like it or not. And no matter what the consequences are. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's super encouraging. So in a similar vein, you frequently talk about doing the next right thing. However, as you are well aware, our emotions can frequently become so overwhelming that we often feel immobilized by them. So when it yeah, and this is like when our emotions are trying to hold us captive. Can you give some very practical examples of what this looks like in a homeschool day that's going poorly? This doing the next right thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

It it is easy to get just captivated by our emotions, especially because um the world and even well-meaning but not um not fully scripture-based Christian teaching can even lead us to think that our emotions are our current truth. Like whatever we are feeling is right. But we often feel things that are not true. We feel things that are not right, and we we can give those up. Like die, that's dying to self. We can give up emotions that we have been convicted are wrong, and then they're replaced by the fruit of the spirit. Like God does that if we offer them up, we if we repent and they do get changed over. And so a big part of it is even just recognizing that's a possibility because I think that a lot of women today have never been told that's a possibility. They've been told that just their feelings just are, and they have to accept it, and and fighting them feels wrong. Maybe they've even been told that it's wrong. And your feelings follow your actions, which is why God tells us what to do, um, gives us principles and gives us direction, and following that um will lead our emotions to the right place. And so I like to point out that we often have this like ticker tape narrator in our head telling us, like giving us an interpretation of our day. So, you know, you're sitting and doing math and you're like, nothing's ever going right. I'm so tired of this. He's, you know, my child just maybe this isn't the right curriculum because he's not getting anything right. And you're not like actually calm and cool and collected, like making a real diagnosis. Yeah, it's that emotional overwhelm feeling, and your and your brain comes in and tells you, like, okay, this is it must be this, it must be that. But it's really just emotional swirl inside. Uh you know, that can that happens to us all the time, if we're honest. And um this is where I think script having scripture memorized so that you can turn to that in your head. Another thing I always I tell this to my kids, and then I do it too, just get up and get a drink of water. Like we we need to have little quick resets when our emotions start to feel like just turmoil within us. Just take a break. Not like, oh, I give up kind of break, but uh like hold on a minute, I'm gonna get a drink of water. And if we have sinned against our child in that moment, if we've snapped or if we've, you know, if we've sinned against them, we have to recognize that even if our child has sinned and then we sin against them in response, we're making it worse.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

And we're the parent, we have to take initiative and ask for forgiveness. And that resets the situation and sets it on a proper ground again. And if you've had back and forth that's not healthy, you have to deal with that relational problem before you get to any other problem, like the actual math problem or reading practice or whatever. The curriculum issue, the teaching moment is going to be blocked by the the sin against one another. You have to deal with that first. And that really does clear the air so much.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah. It's it's so worth it to just deal with it right at that moment because nothing school related is going to get done until that relationship is restored. Yeah. Yeah. What you were saying, it makes me think of how we're told in Romans 12 to be renewed or um the renewing of our minds. And um that I think is so essential for training our hearts and guarding our hearts. It's like you were saying with the memorizing of scripture. And I think even a lot of the sayings that we can quickly go to and use, like do the next right thing, for example, those are great things to help reset and just get us right back on that. Okay, what are we supposed to do here? Let's not let our hearts rule us. Uh, let's not let our feelings dominate this moment right now. And reminding ourselves of what is true over and over and over again. And it really takes the repetition of that to build the habit of training our minds. Because I think like you were saying, with so many women who are being told to have their feelings lead them, that that becomes their habit, that becomes their general mode of operation. And we have to make it a habit to be renewed in our minds so that our hearts can then follow that truth that we're renewing our minds with. Yeah. Yeah. One thing I do also is uh I'll have my, I have two boys. So we have to do a lot of this resetting. Um I I like to have them do push ups or jumping jacks or something to get their wiggles out, send them out on the trampoline to go bounce for 10 minutes. Sometimes they just need to move and sitting there trying to work hard on math or a reading lesson or whatever it is, some sometimes just getting physical. Also can really help with bringing back those tough moments. Oh yeah. Especially the boys really need that. Yeah. Yeah. How many boys do you have? I have three of three out of my five are boys. Okay, great. That's awesome. So you definitely know. Okay. So how can a mom discern the difference between something she needs to push through with courage versus something she needs to adjust or change in her homeschool? Because sometimes it is a matter of this just isn't working and we do need to shift gears. And but I this is something I actually hear a lot from other homeschool moms that I work with and mentor. They they have a hard time knowing when do I just need to persevere and and see that this is the work that God has for me. And when is this genuinely something that I need to just let go and and try to find something that works better for my family?

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Yeah. I think I think there is a lot to a mother's intuition. Um, but our mother's intuition gets clouded and off course if we're thinking and acting in fear. So I think when you're looking at something like, do I change it, do I not? Um, you have to honestly evaluate whether it's fear making you question or whether it really is like a problem-solving mode. And I think the direction either way um kind of leads you a different way. Because you're never gonna make a good decision about pushing through or continuing if fear is the problem. You have to deal with the the fear. And once when you do that, the issue will likely resolve or you'll see it in a totally different light and it'll make sense. But it's really the fear is the problem, not the thing that you're fearful about. And then if if there's not, if it's just like, I'm just not sure about this, I think this is one reason why God gives us husbands. Yes. And he tells wives to submit. I mean, my husband give has like delegated the homeschooling for the most part to me.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

But when I am not sure about something, I'll lay it all out before him. I think this a brain dump really helps here before you go talk to your husband. So you're like, get it all out of your head and like figure it out what you want to say, yeah. Like what the details are, so that you don't like flood him with random tidbits. Oh no. Yeah. And then present it like this is my conundrum. And then take his advice. I think that's the one. Don't just get his opinion. He's probably gonna give you some advice, and then you have to submit and take it. Yes, that is that is the crucial part right there. I think the I know the like the fear or excuse that a lot of women have in not asking for their husband's feedback or in input on these decisions is that he doesn't know the same level of detail that we do as the day-to-day. He doesn't know all the curriculum.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

He's not involved, you know, he hasn't listened to all the podcasts and read all the books. And so it feels like he doesn't have all the information that you have to make a decision. But I think that's actually the husband's strength in the situation. And a lot of times our uncertainty is because we have so much information that we can't filter. And we hear like just so many opinions, and we are just in the thick of it. And our husband has this perspective that's a little bit more outside. Um, and he's going to have insight into what's actually going on it with your particular people, you know, your house. And he's he's not as concerned with all the grand, you know, educational philosophy, but he's going to have insight into what you should do in your family or for this particular child. And it's also walking by faith to just obey God by submitting to what your husband says to do in those situations.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Amen to that. Yeah. And he has an objective perspective that isn't all emotional. We, like you were saying, we're right in the middle of the emotions. Also, we run on a typically 28-day cycle of emotions. And so we have to keep that in mind on a day when we think that we want to throw in the towel and change everything up. Are we going to feel this way in two weeks? Because we might feel pretty good about it in two weeks. And so I think it's good, you know, to give it some time like that. But our husband is our leader, and it's his job to lead us and and our children in making these types of decisions in a non-emotional way. And he knows us more intimately than anybody else does. And so he has wisdom and insight that the latest podcaster or book or educational philosophy doesn't have because he knows us intimately. I and and I know, I know with my husband right now, something I'm just so incredibly thankful for and value so much is I am entering the stage of preteen boys. And he is a man. And this is a whole new world for me that I am, you know, I'm a girl. And so he is able to give me a perspective just on what it is like to be a boy. You know, I'll come to him and explain what's going on in the day. And he will ask me, Well, did you take them for a walk? Or did you did you did you give them time to exercise today? And, you know, I'll be like, no. And so oftentimes it's something as simple as that, where they have just insight into how a boy is wired, or um just the emotional state of our families, even if you don't have boys, that they are able to lead and shepherd us in a way that that nobody else is, and we should not take that for granted. Yes. Yeah. So what would you say are the most common ways that moms are tempted to check out in homeschooling and how do we fight against that?

SPEAKER_03 28:53

I think, I mean, the most common is our phones, for sure. Yeah. Because it's just so easy and we get um just addicted to the that habit of getting the easy distraction. We actually prefer the distracted state to the focused state. It it demands less of us.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

It's the easy path.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

And I mean, there are other things besides the phone that um people were checking out of their lives before phones existed. It's true. It's true. Um I mean, snacking and eating is kind of a check-out mode. And even I think for some homeschool moms, even doing chores is a way that they're checking out from their homeschool. Because like they don't maybe know what to do next with their child, but they know that there's laundry they could fold. Yeah. Like it's more clear of what to do there. So they'll go do that. And then before you know it, the day's over when you've just been doing like little thing here, little thing there, and then you feel busy and like you've been doing things, but you haven't put in the time on what's important. That's a way of checking out as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Yeah, those are really good. And I think those are very convicting probably for most of us because I think all of us at some time or another, no matter how disciplined we are, can fall into ruts where we are using those things as ways to not do the work right in front of us that we really need to be tending to. And and like you were saying, the hard thing uh that we want that path of least resistance.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

And we don't really know how the lesson is going to turn out or what fights the kid is gonna start. And like there are all these unknowns and uncertainties, and we can build them up. Whereas, like, we know if I just spend 10 minutes, I'm gonna have a folded load of laundry or And at least I've accomplished that. Yeah. Yeah. Or a snack. Like these are all things like we know what's gonna come on the end of doing it. And that's one reason why we put off the homeschool lessons is it feels more scary because it's a whole bunch of unknowns.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

I I think that's really important to keep in mind too for all homemakers, because I think something, especially for those of us who really embrace our role as homemakers and enjoy the work of cooking and keeping a home, that we can take a lot of pride and joy in that, which is a good thing, and we should be doing that, and um, being productive in our work and and producing fruitful things. But I think that it's a lot more fun and we can get that dopamine hit from say making something that looks really amazing and and being like, look what I did, or having that feeling of a clean house. But like you were saying, we don't always know what the outcome is gonna be with our kids. This is a this is something, the work that is a marathon. We're in this for the long haul, and we're not gonna get to see how it turns out. And so we don't really have any results immediately to show for what we're doing. And so that is really where that faith comes in of having to do something where we don't know what the outcome is gonna be. If this is gonna take up my whole day, if this is going to require discipline in this moment, if I'm just going to have to trust the Lord with this behavior that is not that my child is not repenting of. And um, I just I think that's a really good reminder because as good as it is for us to be focusing on the work of homemaking, it requires a different type of courage than homeschooling does.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I want to shift a little bit here. And this I have to admit is a bit of a selfish turn because as I said, I have pre-teen voice. And this is a whole new adventure for me. And so I have heard you many times speak about the 12-year-old on your podcast. And I can't even tell you how tremendously encouraging those things have been to me and have really just spurred me on when I felt like this, this was just terrible. This, you know, whatever I was dealing with, the new emotions and shifts in behavior. So, as I said, you you've spoken about how challenging this time can be. What is actually happening in our children during this stage that makes it so difficult?

SPEAKER_03 33:46

A little thing called puberty. Yeah. So, like their hormones are all over the place. And and we should be able to sympathize as moms with that. Um there are more hormones all over the place for girls than boys. Uh that comes out in different ways and kind of on different rhythms. But especially for boys, you said you had boys. Um it is in a way, even though like girls have more hormones at play, you know, they're going all over the place and it's much more up and down. But but the boys are moving from children to men. And those are two very different kinds of stages.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

And and the break between or the difference between a child and a man is different from child to woman. It's a it's a greater divide.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

And they're kind of jump in both one foot in both of those worlds and like wanting to go into one, but not sure. And it's scary and it actually demands a lot of them. So like some will try to move into that man category kind of recklessly. Like they'll be more reckless, they'll be more angry, like all these things that to them, they're just trying to jump that divide and and land in the man category. Yeah. And so we need to recognize that and and help them move, like, not try to hold them back. Anything that we as moms do that they interpret as trying to keep them children, yeah, we're fighting their natural development. If we're doing that, they're not supposed to stay children, they are acting more immature than they even did as 10-year-olds sometimes. But we have to see the promise and we have to see their trajectory and try to kind of actually push them on that trajectory rather than hold them back. And a lot of times moms end up um doing damage to their relationship with their boy or, you know, just really having an extra hard time because they try to hold their boy back from manhood.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Yeah, no, that's really good. One of the things that I think I really want to make sure that I am doing a good job at is respecting the men that they are becoming. And I want to be encouraging them to step into those roles and and respecting the fact that they are becoming, and this is a good thing that they are, that they are becoming more independent, that they are wanting to take leadership in certain ways. And I I want to foster that, and that is the ultimate goal of of what we are doing in raising children, especially in raising boys. But it's it's hard at times to navigate because they are still our children, and and so I'm still the parent, the authority, and this balance of how do I balance being a mother who is the authority figure, um, especially like when my husband's at work, and and yet respecting the men that they're becoming. I I I frequently think about C.S. Lewis talking about the school moms, who you do you know what I'm talking about? And and I I just think don't be a school mom, don't be a school mom. And yet at the same time, you know, you need to respect your mother. You need to honor and obey right away. And so what would you say to that transition?

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Yeah, it is difficult, and you definitely need your husband's input along the way, like asking him what proper consequences are.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

And there are times where um you just have to let the consequences be in your husband's hand and like pass pass the baton, uh, even if that means like waiting on There's been a huge shift in that that I've noticed in the last year, a couple of years, it's pretty much shifted to his discipline almost exclusively. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

Because a man can help a boy become a man. Yeah. And a woman can't. So we do need to find ways to allow our husband's influence to be greater, which means some of dying to self again, like giving up some of our ideas of the way we wanted things to be, and letting him do things his way. Um finding other opportunities for other men to also have voices in your son's life is helpful, you know, whether that's you know, a club at church or a class somewhere where there's a male teacher, like other male voices and input help a lot. If if a boy feels smothered, if he's just home all the time and all he has to do is just whatever mom tells him to do, he like his whole biology is telling him he has to break away from that.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

And so we have to allow a some level of break.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Um, and it comes back later if you allow that break to happen. It it's hard because it's like, oh, but my little boy, he was so sweet. Like, let it happen. There will be grandchildren, and that's even better. So we're working toward is grandchildren.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yes. Well, especially too for homeschool moms where your child is with you all day long. And so I I can definitely see how for for moms of who are homeschooling boys, how this in particular can be a tough thing.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Yeah. Yeah. Finding ways they can contribute with the household that's that's physical labor. Yes. Is good. Or finding finding jobs they can do for other people and that's not mom, where they're responsible to someone other than mom. Like the more of those they have, I think the easier it is for there to be some homeschooling responsibilities where mom is in charge. Oh yeah. But if their whole life is only mom all the time, then they're basically gonna feel trapped as children.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's so wise. I think that's really, really good. Thank you so much. Uh so how should a mother adjust her uh her approach to these transitions? And what are some common mistakes that you see that moms make during these seasons? And how can we avoid them?

SPEAKER_03 41:11

Yeah, I think the biggest mistake that I see is actually just not recognizing the new stage when it comes, which is why I like to talk about it. Like it's like just heads up, this is coming. Like it can't it catches moms so off guard that their kids are growing up. Like you're just day after day, and but all those days add up and we've hit a new season before we realize that the new season has come. And then we're playing catch up and having our whole world shaken. But if we know that it's coming and we're mentally and emotionally prepared for that, at least a little bit ahead of time, then I think we just have our feet under us when it happens. It's not this completely unexpected thing that totally undoes us. Like your kids are gonna grow up, it's gonna happen sooner than you think, and it's going to change how you relate. And and so finding ways where you can have conversation and a relationship with your children that moves toward a a peer relationship or peer conversation, um figuring out how that can happen in your particular homeschool. One thing about seventh or eighth grade that we did was several of their little classes. I would get some of their friends, and um, sometimes it was history or theology, or we'd do at least one, but usually a couple classes that were really just like book clubs. There's a reading assignment, and then we're gonna meet at this certain time, and all of us in this room are just gonna talk about the book, where it's not me teaching and requiring things of them. It's like we're all showing up, doing the reading, having a conversation. And and I thought of that as kind of showing them the way how to be a grown-up, like letting them into a grown-up room. Yeah. Uh, and it helps when it there are those other peers too. Um and then that uh leads you to both feel comfortable having those like more adult conversations. It becomes normalized and I think helps helps you shift that relationship and see a positive way for it to grow instead of just feeling like you're only losing things out of your homeschool.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Yeah, no, that's really good. And I think it helps it's it provides so much opportunity for training for them as well and the whole experience of becoming an adult. I really love too what you said about just recognizing that it is a thing. I I so my oldest right now, he's um just about to turn 13. So all of these changes started happening about a year and a half ago. And I remember I came across one of your videos about 12 year olds. And I I it was like this light bulb went off. Like, oh, this is a thing. And and now my my youngest is two years younger than him. And so right on schedule, my oldest is getting out of that stage, and now my youngest is is taking up the torch. And and it's now it I don't have the same um, it's not as startling. Yeah. It doesn't make it less challenging, the emotions and these things that that boys are dealing with at this stage, but it does make it less surprising, which helps to take away that sense of fear and you know, oh no, what's going on? So uh I I definitely agree that it it does help just to know that this is normal. This is part of the normal transition. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

Yeah. And one thing I liked to do too is to look around um our community or look around your church and see other families that have older boys. Yeah. And just say, hey, you know, that's where we're going. Like, look at how great that is. Look at that family. Um, I remember one time a family, I think they were just coming in and visiting our church or something because I didn't know them, but they sat down like in front of us, and all my kids were little, but she had boys who were taller than her, all and three or four all sitting in the row. I just remember thinking, like, someday that's gonna be me. Yeah. And then having the thought, like, that would be so great. Yes. Like, just does what she's just surrounded by these tall sons. I that's something that we're going toward. And it's a good thing. It's a good thing. Yeah. It's not preserving your little cute homeschool. Yeah. You are helping launch these people into productive adulthood.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Yes. As scary, as scary as these things can be with the letting go, there's something that's just so special and rewarding about seeing that that that person that you've raised becoming an adult and taking on things that you used to have to do for them, or, you know, doing things for others. And, you know, now my son is just about taller than me. And I'm relying on him to do things that, you know, I can't do, like opening a jar or lifting heavy things. And and boys love that. Like the more of those things happen, the yeah, take advantage of that. Yeah. And it's it it's exciting to see their confidence building and recognizing that they are becoming this person that I can actually rely on.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

My oldest son is married and they have two babies. Oh, that's so wonderful. Grandchildren, and that is amazing. Like, just let them grow up because then you get grandkids. Yes. You don't get grandkids unless you let them grow up. Yes, the fruits of your labor.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Okay. So, how should we think biblically about issues like laziness, resistance, or disrespect? And in these moments of conflict, how can we respond in a way that is both firm and shepherding the heart, not just correcting behavior?

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Right. I think this is a part of being prepared for the transition because all of those elements, resistance, laziness, arguing, they are part of the growing pains of making the transition into adulthood and try and trying to navigate. They're navigating it poorly, you know, they're making wrong choices as they do that, but that's why it's happening. Yeah. That's what's going on in them. And I think that sometimes, you know, when we're just focused on those young years, setting up your homeschool, and there's all kinds kinds of talk out there about habits and all that, and we get this idea in our head that if if we just have the right routine and if we habit train, then when they get older, they'll never have these problems. If we deal with the when they're younger, we won't have these problems. And so then when they're 12 and they're lazy and they're fighting us about their work, we think, I put in all that work for nothing. Like it didn't pay off. Or I failed and wrong. What's broken? Yeah, I failed. I didn't do it right. And they're just going through the next cycle of development. So, you know, you teach obedience and different things when they're like tiny tiny, um, a toddler. And then when you're starting school, you kind of have to, you have another layer that you have to teach them in with their character. And then this is a new cycle, and it's like everything's starting fresh, and part of that is the hormones messing everything up. You sometimes they seem like three-year-olds all over again. Yeah, they forgot everything, but that is normal. Yeah. And so you're just going through training the like, nope, even now. That was true when you were six. It's still true. So usually kids do test the rules and test us every you know, developmental milestone. Basically, there are different phases where they'll say, this is still they'll they'll test us to see if the things are still working.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

And this is one of those stages, again, and you just have to say, nope, this is what we do. Just keep repeating. You have to repeat it and hold the line while also allowing them to make these decisions for themselves. I think that is the lesson at this stage, is when they're younger, they are doing it because you said so, and they're taking it on faith. And so it that's like the faith years where they have faith in you and you're leading the way. And now they're in a transition point, and they do kind of have to go over all the lessons again to make it their own. So they're not just doing it because you said so, and you have to not be insulted by that.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

Uh, you have to let them make some mistakes and bear consequences and hold the line, and it's gonna look different. Like you have to work out what that actually looks like with your husband and your situation, but they are testing the waters and it's so that they can make it their own. And then they'll move on and they'll be making those decisions. They'll have so many decisions to make on their own without us. This is their practice point for that later life.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Yeah. And that's ultimately what we want is we want them to be making those decisions on their own and doing it of their own volition. Otherwise, we would just have little robots. Right. And that's not what we're after. And they're not gonna do any good for the kingdom of God. So yeah. So you you were talking about repeating a a lot. So speaking of repeating, you uh say repent, rejoice, repeat a lot. Why is repentance so essential in the daily life of a homeschool, not just for our children, but for us as mothers? And what does that look practically to model repentance and cultivate rejoicing in the middle of these imperfect days?

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Yeah, I think nothing will show us our sin like living with other people. And as a homeschooling family, we're doing all of our living, all of our working, all of our learning in this environment of the same people all the time. And so we have more time and more occasion to sin against one another. And that means we're going to have to repent more. More than we uh thought we probably would be, more than we have probably ever in our life, because we probably weren't living in this close proximity with other people as much. And as moms, as the homeschool mom, we're leading the way. So it's not something that we're just requiring of other people. If we're only requiring it of our children and never doing it ourselves, then we're saying to our children, I don't sin, only you sin. And that's hypocrisy. If we want our children to repent of their sin, we lead the way by repenting of our own sin. And we are sinning against our kids and they know it. So we're doing no good if we cover it over and like deceive ourselves that the problem is them and not us. Yeah. The more we take responsibility and admit when we're wrong and ask for forgiveness from our children, we're showing them how to lead. We're showing them how to walk with God. We're showing them how to change. And they're gonna need those lessons more than any of the other lessons we're teaching them in their adult life.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

That's good. That's really good. So you talk in your book, The Convivial Homeschool, you describe being convivial. What does this really mean? And how is this different from just having a very well-run homeschool?

SPEAKER_03 53:56

Yes, a well-run homeschool, like in my mind, the everyone's doing exactly what I want them to be doing all day long. And I'm I was never able to achieve that myself. Says the author of Simplified Organization. That's right. Simplify it down to not being in control. Yes. The only kind of control we're meant to have is self-control, not control of all the moving pieces in our home.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Yes, yes, amen.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

And so what we can have instead is conviviality, which I know is a really weird word, but I just love it because it means living life together with joy.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

So you've con and vive. It's like we're with life, but you're with multiple lives are being lived together, and it means festive. So you're living life in fellowship with one another. And so you can do that even when someone's having a hard time with math, and even when this lesson took longer and is throwing off your schedule. Like those are the moments where you're choosing between am I going to freak out because this isn't how I wanted it to go? Or, you know, am I going to respond with love and joy and life in this moment? And really, as moms, we are the atmosphere of our home. It's not the candles or the decor, those are nice add-ons. Yeah. But our attitude, our demeanor, the way we speak is the tone and the heart of our home.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Yeah. Well, that kind of goes back to another thing you say a lot is organize your attitude. And I love that because it's so much more important to organize our attitudes and our hearts and the atmosphere that we are providing for our family than necessarily to make sure our entire house is organized. So I want to switch topics a little bit here. Uh, you just came out with a book on hospitality. And uh, in a home is for hospitality, you expand the vision of the home outward. How is homeschooling itself a form of hospitality?

SPEAKER_03 56:21

Yeah, I mean, it's not really changing the subject because it's all about being convivial. So convivial, hospitable, they're kind of related. Um, with hospitality, you are extending welcome. And we think of hospitality often as just having guests in to our home. But really, hospitable means that life can happen here. Like you have a hospitable environment, hospitable soil for plants. It means that life can grow, life can thrive. So our job as homemakers and mothers and homeschool mothers is to create an environment where life can thrive. And so that's kind of the same thing as convivial, because a convivial atmosphere is one where life is thriving. Like that's what it looks like when things are thriving. So, with hospitality, we want to offer hospitality first to the people who live in our home. And it's only when we have hospitality there amongst one another that we really have hospitality that we can extend out. Otherwise, the hospitality that we're giving others is just fake, it's just hypocrisy.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:40

We're offering a fake version of ourselves to others, and we want to offer guests into our home the atmosphere of our home. So it starts with having that home atmosphere first. And that's a lot of work when the home atmosphere is getting a workout all day every day as a homeschool family.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

Yeah, yeah. But it needs, I mean, before you have anybody enter into anything, that you need to have something from which you are um drawing from before you have anything flow out. And so I think that's just so important that we do think of our children, our husbands, as our our first guests before anybody. I also just I really love how you keep pointing to the Latin roots for these words as where you're deriving the meaning. It really gives just such a richer picture of what these things mean. Because I hadn't really thought about that. I think all the words that you said here, where you were talking about the root words and with uh hospitality, this place where life thrives, I just love that. That's such a great way to think of it. But you're right.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

Yeah, it's but I mean, today our words have been stripped of a lot of meaning. People can use the same word and mean multiple things. And so often, like any discussion of anything, I pretty much always start with the definition. Yeah, let's first talk about what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

No, it's so good because you're right. It's we we think of we think of it in this particular context, but when you actually get to what the meaning is, um, it just it it translates in in such a deeper way. So many women feel like they need to have it all together before opening their homes. For moms who feel like they're barely keeping their heads above water, how can they begin practicing hospitality without feeling overwhelmed?

SPEAKER_03 59:43

Well, the main kind of hospitality that we did when I was homeschooling all five, all all day, uh, was just weeknight hospitality. So, like not special dinner parties or anything fancy. It was just a normal family dinner. Um not really anything. I mean, sometimes it'd be, you know, um, no, I'm thinking I've even done rice and beans for guests. But I mean, some a soup or bread, you know, just really basic, easy family dinners, whatever is pretty normal for our family, just doubled it and had people over for dinner. And um that was a way, I think that kind of hospitality with a culture that where so few people actually do eat around a table, we don't realize how much we are offering. We're looking at everything that's not the way we want it in our home, uh the clutter piles and you know, other people cook better than us and all these things. But we if we have a dinner table with food sitting around a table, that's a lot to offer today's world.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:00

Um, and it's it's something that is deeply satisfying for humans that many people are missing. So it you don't need to have everything together before you do that because you already have so much to give. It doesn't have to be perfect. And I liked to think of it as a field trip where we didn't have to find any shoes ahead of time. No one needed shoes. We would just invite other people in and we would have just a family dinner around the table and get the other people to talk and tell, you know, places they'd been, things they'd done. And our kids have heard the stories of all kinds of different people's experiences. Um, and that's super valuable. You know, they probably don't remember half of it, but what they but they remember, they each have different things that have stuck with them. And so um hospitality is giving, but one of my favorite proverbs is uh he who waters will himself be watered. And when we like the Bible does command hospitality. And so when we obey and we give, even when it's uncomfortable and awkward, we also receive. And that kind of field trip experience without leaving home. Um, it it helped our homeschool days quite a bit because, you know, we'd already been eating and talking together all day long. Yes. But it kind of changed changed it up and gave us a little variety to have more pe different people in. So um it actually was very refreshing for us as well. Once, you know, you just kind of get used to the rhythm of making a little bit more and having the kids clean up in the afternoon and you know, clean the bathroom, and then it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

It's fine. Yeah. I love that. What a fun and positive way to think of it and and talk about it to your children as a field trip. Because then it it I think it helps with the mindset shift too of bringing it back to courage, where sometimes hospitality can be scary for a lot of people, especially if you're having people who you don't know well, it's your first time having them, and you're maybe concerned about what you're gonna talk about, where you're taking something that could be scary and might require a bit of courage, and you're putting a a positive spin on it and and really focusing on how, yes, I'm obeying God, and yes, um, this is something I'm commanded to do, but this is also a fun opportunity and something that is going to not just be a blessing to these people, but is ultimately going to be enriching to my kids, and is how how hospitality is something that is shaping them and and part of training them up and enriching them in the people that they're going to be as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

And you know, the all the practice over the years that we put in, where there were lots of awkward conversations and burnt dinners, like all of that stuff happened. But the just recurring rhythm has made it so that it's not awkward or weird for my children. So now they're becoming adults. And we've three of our five have moved out and they're on their own, and they've all extended hospitality at like almost as soon as they started, almost as soon as they moved out. They like, oh, well, we'll just have people over. Like it's just what they do. And so that is another kind of fruit where it's like we put in some hard work and like overcame a lot of personal reservations and awkwardness and we lots of years where we didn't feel good at it. We just did it because we thought we were supposed to. Yeah. And then that became the gift that our children are carrying on and they're starting out ahead of us, which is another goal that I think we can look for and work for as homeschooling families is we're we're not setting up our children to have perfect achievements and a perfect life, but we are helping them start out a little bit ahead of where we started out.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Yes. Yeah. It's this whole act of sending them out as arrows and and in order that they can do good work for the kingdom of God and be fruitful and multiply the works that the Lord has given them. So I think that is such uh an amazing encouragement that we can have in pursuing hospitality and And it's just, it's exciting to think about the way that these things that we're doing in our homes are going to have such a lasting impact and results on our kids. Yeah. So as we close up here, Misty, thank you so much by the way for everything you've shared so far. It's just been such an encouragement. But I'd like to leave some encouragement to the mom who is listening to this. So for the mom who feels weary, especially in the harder years with older kids, what does it look like to take courage and do the faithful thing today?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:41

One of my favorite things for taking courage is um writing out verses or a quote that really struck me and putting it on my bathroom mirror. So I call it an alignment card. Just so that vision and that piece of truth is in front of my face so that I can change my thoughts, read it. I read through right now. I have, I think, five on my mirror. I read through them whenever I'm washing my hands or doing my hair. And it just reframes my thoughts. Like my thoughts can be all over the place. And it gives me a visual place to bring my thoughts together and focus them on scripture and remember what we're about. And you know, the verses that are up there, I change them sometimes more often, sometimes less often. But it's it's very encouraging. And then sometimes I'll read them and start praying about those thoughts that come up when I'm sometimes I'm praying the verses, sometimes it's just a reminder to myself. And that's a great way to keep that vision going forward. Like we need to put be putting truth actively into our heads and our hearts. Cause if we're just letting our heart lead the way, like whatever happens to pop into our head is the emotion that we have, we're gonna be all over the place. And we're going to experience fear and failure more than we need to. Um if we if we don't put our mind back on scripture, like meditate on God's word, and having just a verse on an index card taped in my bathroom mirror has been such an effective way of doing that in my own life.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:44

That's so good. And it's such a practical example of how we can be doing battle against our feelings. And it instead of taking it from this ethereal level up here, it just I love that that's a practical tool that we can do that can make a difference right now with taking courage. So yeah. Thank you so much, Misty. One of my goals with this podcast is to facilitate in an environment where women are having access to real titus to discipleship and just getting to hear from other women who have gone before them, who've gone before me. And I know that you have really spoken to my heart and encouraged me so deeply today. And I I know that our listeners will be so encouraged as well. And so thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us today. This was great. Thank you, Heather. Thank you. All right, ladies, that's all we have time for today. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Misty. Be sure to check out her books and podcasts at simplyconvivial.com. I I can't stress enough the wealth of wisdom she is on everything from homeschooling to organization and just homemaking in general. Also, please don't forget to leave a review and spread the word about keeping the Citadel with your friends. Now, as we close, I'd like to send you out with a charge to encourage you to go further up and further in your calling. So, with that, here is my charge to you. Maybe today your homeschool didn't look like the vision you had. Perhaps there were unfinished lessons, math tiers, or you reacted in a way that you know did not honor the Lord. These are the points of testing for us. The moments where discouragement, doubt, and sometimes even despair threaten to take over. Where we can either choose to check out or to embrace the opportunities set before us. In those moments, what will you choose? Will you allow your feelings to rule? Will you let your heart dictate your actions? Or will you be transformed by the renewing of your mind? Education is warfare, and it's time you suit up for the battle. Every moment of every day, you need to take up your sword of the spirit and fight those moments of overwhelm with the truth of God's word. This isn't a call to muster up your own strength, but for you to take hold of Christ's strength. Because the fact of the matter is, you will never be the perfect homeschool mom. But praise be to Christ. That's not what he calls you to be. You were called to be faithful. You were called to submit to him and his plan for your day. So submit to him, obey him, and do the next right thing. This journey of homeschooling isn't for the faint of heart. It takes courage to keep going when the days are long and you don't know how the journey will end. But when you show your children a humble and tried heart, they aren't seeing a mother who retreats. They are seeing a mother who repents and embraces the beauty of the gospel. So when you fail, and you will, get back up again. And remember that one bad moment doesn't have to make a bad day. All you need to do is repent, rejoice, and repeat. Have courage, dear heart, and until next time, embrace your high calling, live a better story, and keep the flame of your citadel burning brightly.