14: When Christian Art is Actually GOOD - How an art & faith conference changed me

I went to an Art & Faith conference, and it changed me.

Actually, this is the THIRD year I've been to this conference. I always love going because, as a deconstructing Christian, I find the space to be friendly to questions, intellectual pursuits, and uncertain faith. Art is a great place for these things in general. For something that is so beyond us and filled with such mystery -- aka GOD and religion -- we need good avenues to explore it without putting it in a human-size box. This, I believe, is where the arts come in. Art (in all its forms) is vital for exploring the mystery of The Other.

In this video, I share about my experience at this conference: the great minds and artists I've learned from, my biggest takeaways, and the reasons why I keep going back. I also talk more broadly about art and faith and why they should absolutely go together. 

I would love to hear about your own faith/spiritual journey! What were some milestones for you? Where have you temporarily landed, or is everything still very much in flux? Meet me in the comments or head over to our Discord for a more in-depth discussion!  https://discord.gg/gdTMBzkNjY

P.S. Welcome to our solo episode series! Eventually, we will post solo episodes from each Passionfroot creator. We like to think of these as "breakout sessions" -- a chance to go deeper on the subjects we each represent here on Passionfroot. Expect more creativity-focused solo episodes from me in the future!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

God is not a little box out of like the rest of life. It's not like as a Christian, you're supposed to spend all your time in this God box and avoid secular life. No. I think that's a very limited way of seeing the world. Instead, I believe that God is more like a lens. Welcome to Passion Fruit, where we navigate life, purpose, and faith outside the box. I'm Darcy. I'm Adwa. I'm Max. I'm Evan. And I'm Mel. Let's dive in.

Introducing SOLO episodes and creator archetypes

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Hello, and welcome back to the Passion Fruit Podcast. Today, you get just me. Um, so we have been. So, first of all, for those who are new here, obviously you saw in our intro that we have five people on our team, and we typically do podcasts together, whether it's all five of us or a couple of us, two or three. Um, but something we have been wanting to try lately is doing solo episodes. We each represent an area of interest, like an area that not an area of expertise, but we actually use the word archetype. Um, we each kind of have our own archetype that we bring to the team. And it's really cool to be able to do that for conversations because we have these conversations around important topics, and then we bring our different perspectives to that central topic, and it ends up with a really good, well-rounded conversation. Um, but something that we also thought would be fun would be to do like little breakout sessions in the form of a solo podcast where the each of us and the archetypes we represent get to be highlighted and we get to talk about them in more depth with you guys. Um, my archetype is the creative seeker. That is the current name I've given it. Um, obviously, heavy emphasis on creativity, art. I definitely like to see the world through a creative lens. Creativity is like infused in literally everything that I do in my life and how I see the world. And some of the other archetypes we have on the team are Max with his theology philosophy nerd um thing going on. And we we love to get into conversations about like our faith journeys with him because he adds a lot of knowledge to answer questions that we might have. And then we have Mel, and she is our entrepreneur, our balance-seeking entrepreneur. She's a graphic designer, runs her own business, and but is always trying to figure out how to balance that with rest. Um, we have Evan, who is our wellness archetype. She really loves all things wellness. Pilates, she is a psychologist. Um, she's actually getting her doctorate in psych right now. And then finally, we have Adua, who, and these these archetype names are still kind of being workshopped. So right now, what we're working with for Adua is path, she's a pathforger. She has experienced a lot of career pivots in her life and is always trying to pursue like the most authentic version of herself in her career. Um, but she's also really into supporting youth. She's passionate about young people finding success, and she's also very passionate about her roots. She is part Ghanaian and very interested in getting connected back with that, that those cultural roots. So that was a bit of a long-winded explanation, but we have been having these archetypes in the background a little bit more, and we want to bring them a bit more forward so you guys understand the premise that we're all coming from and how we bring our unique voices together. Um, I think it's a really cool thing. So, all that being said, today, of course, you are with the creative seeker. Um, again, creativity is clearly a part of that, but also I have shared a lot about my faith journey on Passion Fruit as well. And I do feel like I am in this journey of seeking truth, seeking what I believe, and kind of doing that from a creative lens. Um, I'll get more into that kind of thing in this episode so you'll understand a little bit more what I'm describing there with that title. But yeah, welcome to my creative breakout session, my solo episode, um, the first solo episode on our channel. So that's kind

The Art and Faith Conference

SPEAKER_00 4:54

of exciting. So I recently went to an art and faith conference at a college in my area, and I have been to this particular conference three years now. I always leave feeling really inspired. Um, and I thought it would be just really fun to share what I learned, what I have learned over these three years, and also specifically at this one, and to just use it kind of as a catalyst to just talk about the overlap between art and faith. Um, if you have any experience as a creative person and a Christian, um, and a creative person in the church, may not every church, but there is a specific stereotype that like a lot of evangelical churches don't really value their artists as much as they should, um, and kind of shy away from discussing art. It almost feels like a threat to them. And so it's not like the healthiest relationship. Uh, so I want to, yeah, just talk about that a little bit by using this conference as um the subject matter to bring that point forward. And I'd like to do more episodes on this topic of art and faith in the future. Definitely would love to bring in Max into these kinds of conversations. He's a musician um and a Christian, so obviously there is, again, that overlap of art and faith. And I think it would be an interesting thing to keep talking about. But for this particular episode, I just thought it would be easier for it to be a solo episode so I can share about the conference um directly to you guys.

My faith and deconstruction journey

SPEAKER_00 6:33

I should give a little bit more context about me before I get into the conference. So I am belaboring the point, but I am an artist, if you couldn't tell. Um, so that's of course important context. But then I also have alluded earlier, I alluded earlier to the fact that I'm on a spiritual journey right now, a deconstruction. If you're familiar um with this channel, if you've watched our videos, listened to our podcast before, then you probably know that I talk about it often. Uh, so this is more so for the people that are new, again, needed context to just know how I am approaching this conference and this conversation with you, um, the posture that I'm coming from, which is somebody that is questioning my beliefs. Long story short, in 2022 is when I kind of had an existential crisis and questioned whether God existed for the first time. And I grew up in the church and I never really questioned that before. I grew up in a bubble. Um, and so it really did feel like an existential crisis because this thing that I had just kind of taken for granted before is something that's totally the truth, and like all these things that I've been taught about heaven, they're all real. Um, and it was definitely an eye-opening moment when I first started asking those questions. And I have been since then, because we're about four years since that first moment, I have been, I have gotten way more comfortable with accepting uncertainty and mystery. And I would describe my my Christianity or my faith right now as uncertain faith. Sometimes I feel a bit weird or or like a bit confused over whether I want to label myself Christian. I specifically grew up Seventh-day Avenist and still I'm very enmeshed in that community. And like I'm not really opposed to even calling myself Seventh day Avenist. Um, but I guess it's just how does my inner world the question is like, how does my inner world and my questions line up with these labels? And sometimes it feels like they don't fully um mix together. So sometimes I feel hesitant about calling myself Seventh Avenist. Sometimes I feel like the word Christian does fit, and then sometimes I'm like, I don't know, like, I don't know. But I think it is fair to say that I have some sort of faith right now. It's just uncertain faith. And I actually don't even feel like that's a bad thing because I think there's a lot of religious figures in history, like well respected, that would even describe at least certain moments of their faith journey as uncertain faith. And for me at least, I think it's a really important stage to go through um to really put it to the test, to really question it, and to really seek it out on my own without starting from a place of certainty. Um so yeah, so even though I'm I would describe myself as deconstructing, I still definitely am like we'll just say Christian, um, even though I have some reservations about using that word. I actually think ironically I have been more interested in religious, slash, spiritual, slash, faith-based things. Um, there's a lot of words that I could use there, but I've been more interested in that kind of stuff during this deconstruction process than I really ever was before. And it's actually quite exciting and quite fun. Um it really is an exploration, a search, and I'm enjoying that. Um, and so I heard about this conference back, I think maybe in the the following year after I first started questioning my faith. And it really piqued my interest because, like I said, my deconstruction wasn't a moment of letting go entirely of the faith, because I think that's what it is for a lot of people. It's a deconstruction into like non-Christianity, um sometimes anti-Christianity. For me, it was not that just a big questioning, but still a lot of interest in that world and a lot of interest to do the searching on my own. And so when I heard about this art and faith conference, um, yeah, it really piqued

Faith journey milestone: The Artist’s Way

SPEAKER_00 11:18

my interest. There were actually a couple things that happened before the conference that were milestones in my journey. One of them was reading the book The Artist's Way. And I actually read this before I ever started questioning things. I read this in college, and back then, again, I was definitely a Christian, like, no question about it. I like the fact that that book is written in a way that people from most belief systems, most religions, could kind of apply it to their own religion. So it is written in somewhat of like a universal, like vague way. Julia Cameron, who's the author, calls God source in that book. But as a Christian, you can just mentally replace that word with God and it it totally works, at least, at least in my opinion. And reading that book for the first time as a Christian was actually the first time that I realized that creativity and art are key components of spirituality, of religion. And um, before then, you know, there's this whole conversation in like the Christian art art world or or in the world of artists who are Christians, um, especially younger, younger Christians, people maybe still in their like teens or young adulthood, where it's like, I've been given this talent and I should use it for God. And a lot of times people's natural thought is okay, so I need to paint pictures of Jesus, I need to paint pictures of Bible stories. Um, and that never resonated with me. That was never something I really wanted to do. But I was still left wondering, well, how can I be an artist who is like including God in my art? How can I be an artist who is a Christian? Um am I supposed to make my art like God related? And this book was the first time that I started seeing that as almost a silly question because I don't know if the book made me think this, but I remember coming to this thought around that time. But first of all, if you do believe in God, uh the Christian God, God who created the world, um, the first thing that God was to humans is a creator. That was the very first interaction with us, and um, because he created us and he created the world around us. And so just that fact alone that the the very, very beginning of like our story was creation, that made me realize, oh wow, we really, or at least I and maybe those around me and my Christian circles have really done a disservice to creativity, to artists, artists, um, by making it feel like more of an afterthought of the religion. So clearly there's something more to this. Clear, clearly, creativity is more central to Christianity than I at least have been taught growing up. So there was that moment. And then specifically from my reading of The Artist's Way, she I mean it it I have it right here. Let me just let me pull it up for visual reference. The artist's way, a spiritual path to higher creativity. So obviously, she uh includes this spiritual perspective on creativity, and uh how she does that is framing creativity as not necessarily something that fully just comes from yourself. It's like this again, she uses the word source. Creativity comes from this creative source. And going back to the Christian lens, that creative source is God. God is the source of all creativity because he was the first creator and continues to be the ultimate creator. And I just loved seeing it like that. Like this is this is a this is a sacred action. The act of creating is a sacred and beautiful action. So that was a very significant moment for me to start seeing these worlds of art and faith come together in a more natural way than it felt

Faith journey milestone: Mary Oliver

SPEAKER_00 15:53

like before. Another moment that was significant for me, and this happened after I started questioning things, was discovering Mary Oliver's poetry. Um, little story about how that happened. I was dog sitting, and the people's house I was staying at to dog sit, they had this book called Devotions by Mary Oliver just sitting on their couch. Um, and I thought, hey, I've seen this book at the bookstore. I was kind of curious about it back then, so why not? Let's let's kill some time and read this book while I'm dog sitting. And I absolutely loved it. And I was dogsiting for them for maybe a week or just less, just under a week. And every morning I would go downstairs, I would make myself a cup of tea, and I would sit on the couch and read devotions, and I just fell in love with it. And then so of course I bought my own copy of the book. And what I just what I saw in Mary Oliver's poetry, and therefore in the way that she lived her life, was such a spiritual practice, but one that was different from the kinds of spiritual practices I grew up thinking were the more valid ones. We you know what I'm about to say, like especially if you're raised in Christianity or more in evangelical Christianity, the spiritual practices that matter, at least on your own time, are praying and reading your Bible. And I do think those are important for sure. But it felt like those were the only ways you could develop a relationship with God. Like they were they were the most important things, and it just never really worked for me. I always chalked it up to a lack of self-discipline. Like if I missed worship in the morning, um I would beat myself up a little bit and think, like, oh, I'm so sorry, God, like I'll do better. I think there was also a bit of a fear underlying it. Like part of it, at least I told myself that it was about wanting to get to know God more and develop a relationship because he's this loving guy, this loving God, um, loves you so much, wants a relationship with you, died for you. Like, get to know him, spend time with him, he wants a relationship with you. But also, if you don't develop a relationship with him sooner rather than later, you're not going to withstand the persecution that comes at the end of the world and maybe not go to heaven. And so, of course, like there was this fear that was underlying it. So that was just a struggle for me, and I just never felt like I could keep up with praying and reading my Bible, and I never felt like I was doing as much as I should, and it just didn't like fit naturally. But here I am, post asking some serious questions about Christianity, um and seeing this artist, this poet that clearly has a very spiritual outlook on life and definitely a connection with God, and her spiritual practice is walking through the woods and writing poetry. And that just felt so natural. And I had already started seeing art as a spiritual practice. Like I said, when I was reading The Artist's Way, and my my world was just opened, like, oh yeah, they these are ways of like cultivating a spiritual practice, cultivating um a connection with the other, with God. And to my little artist self, that felt wonderful. Again, even when I was reading Mary Oliver and I was questioning even the fact of God's existence, like it still just felt a bit healing of showing a different way to practice

Back to the conference

SPEAKER_00 19:49

faith. So now we get back to the art and faith conference that I've been leading up to this whole time. So I started seeing ads for this. Like I said, it was at a local local college. But the first time I saw, the first time I heard about it was seeing an Instagram ad. And they talked about it being an art and faith conference, and then they listed the names of the artists and authors and musicians that they would be talking about at this conference. And lo and behold, Mary Oliver's name was one of those people. There was also the classics, every Christian's favorite author, C.S. Lewis, uh Tolkien, um, various other people, but especially Mary Oliver's name really caught my interest. And I was like, I have to go to this conference. So I ended up going. Fun fact, I actually ended up getting in as a volunteer because the tickets were a little bit beyond my budget. Um, but yeah, I ended up, I ended up getting to go, and it's just it is a two-day event. It's happened for three years, as I said. And each time it's just a two-day event, usually a Monday and Tuesday, and it's all day on both of those days. You have one big group session each day, and then all the other sessions are little breakout sessions talking about various topics. Your typical conference, and you just get to choose which sessions you want to go to, what you want to learn about. So they also have um workshops to actually make art or make music, and so it is they have this hands-on element, which is really nice too. They bring out all these different professors from various places in the states, um, art professors, religion professors, people that can talk with a degree of knowledge about these artists and writers, um, creatives. And yeah, it's just a really, it's a really fulfilling, enlightening experience. And actually, for the past couple years, I got in. As a volunteer. This year I was invited to be the live painter for the conference, which is actually a suggestion I made when they asked for feedback at the end of last year. And I was like, hey, you know, it'd be kind of fun to have a live painter. Intent. And they asked me this year to be that live painter, and it was really fun. I still got to go to pretty much all the sessions I wanted to go to, but I just got there early each day, got a good bit of work on it, maybe like an hour or two. And then I tried to paint it during like during the breaks between sessions, during lunch break. Um, I was just out there in the lobby, and people got to see the whole process of this painting from start to finish. So I thought that was really cool being able to invite these people to watch a painter's process. Um, because that's not always something that is available to the public, and I know they really enjoyed that. So that's just an aside, but that was a really fun way to get involved with it this year, and hopefully I can do that again. Also, if you're listening to this instead of watching the video, I am sharing of a photo of that painting. So maybe head on over to the YouTube video after you finish the podcast and um check out what that

How has the conference impacted me?

SPEAKER_00 23:20

looked like if you are curious. So, after three years of going to this conference, how has it impacted me? How has it impacted my faith journey? How has it inspired me creatively? I want to share that with you as well. So, first of all, it provides an avenue for me to explore faith as an artist, which is something that I don't get to explore that much. I mean, there there's not a whole lot of spaces for that. Although, to be fair, I think I need to start looking at the churches around my area because some of them do have these series where they'll focus on a topic and you know, it's like a small group series. Um, and I think probably some some of them do address that art and faith overlap. So that's on me for not really looking for that. But right now, this conference is pretty much the main place I get to explore that, unless I'm doing my own research, of course. And I really like that it is also this very academic environment. Maybe that's the part of me that misses college. I'm four years out of college now, and yeah, I do miss that sometimes. And so this is like another way to experience that again, to do some learning. I've also really gotten into like academia aesthetic, not just not like really in terms of like dressing in academia aesthetic, but I just have this fascination for like higher education and universities and pursuing learning uh and really digging into things that you're really interested in learning more about. I don't know. It's just I think it's come along with my spiritual journey because I'm interested in learning more about um like the histories and the philosophies that go behind these beliefs I had growing up, the ones that promote them, the ones that oppose them, that kind of stuff. So definitely, definitely my interest in academia comes with that desire for more knowledge surrounding religion, but I digress. This environment is like the absolute perfect environment for me, this art and faith conference. I only wish it was longer or happened more often, but I'm really glad it happens every year. I think I think that's probably enough because it is a big, big event to put together. Um, the other thing I really like about it is that it does attract a certain type of person. You know, we of course the people that are there are still very unique individuals. We're all different, there's people with different perspectives, but still it feels like a fairly like-minded group. It's a creative event. It's going to attract creative people, it's going to attract active like artists and that sort of sort of person. And I I just feel like it it seems to me that it is a more friendly environment to give word to doubt, to express questions. I don't know what it is about creatives that that seems like a more friendly environment to do that, but it it just seems to be the case to me. Um, I mean, just looking at the work of these authors and artists that they talk about in this conference, they're very honest and familiar with expressing their faith journeys and all their authenticity. The proclamations of faith and the questions. They also at this conference talk about people who were self-proclaimed agnostics or atheists, and yet we're still talking about voicing questions about the reality of existence, voicing questions about God, even voicing like admiration for figures such as Jesus Christ, even if they may not have fully believed that he was the Son of God themselves. So this environment isn't afraid of questions. And so I feel more comfortable to voice my questions when I'm in that environment. I still get a little cautious sometimes because I realize I am most likely surrounded by the majority Christians who don't really have doubts, and probably some of those Christians would believe that if I do have questions, I'm in danger of going to hell. Um but like I think the majority of them are fairly comfortable with questions, and in the times where I have felt safe to voice them in this environment, usually it's a it's a good conversation. So, anyways, like-minded people that don't really seem to get overall scared by people having big questions. I think also there's this understanding by most of the people there that good Christian art is art that is honest about all aspects of life. And that is the good and the bad, and that is the certain and the uncertain. That is the that involves the questions, that involves honesty that we don't really know a lot of things, that there is actually a lot of mystery to this whole whole God thing. And so there's there's just this honesty that is felt there about that whole topic that I really appreciate. Um, lastly, the other way that this conference really inspires me and impacts my spiritual journey is that it opens my eyes into ways I can practice Christianity that feel more of a natural part of who I am. And this is going back to something I said earlier about feeling like growing up, the one thing that was upheld above all else as a spiritual practice was reading the Bible and praying. And I'll say again, I'm not saying those things are bad. I think they are not bad. Obviously, they're they're important. The Bible is a very important, um, a very important book, a very important sacred text. Even people who don't believe in God can get a lot out of the Bible. Prayer in the form that I grew up with, where it's like casual talking to God, I think there's definitely a beauty to that and a value to that. But those are, it still feels like a very limited way of interacting with God. And so reading The Artist's Way, reading Mary Oliver, these books opened my eyes to different ways that I can practice Christianity that really feel like a more genuine expression of faith for the creative person that I am. And this conference just continues that journey of talking about these various creative people that had different sorts of spiritual practices and connected with God in different ways. And that is really inspiring to me as well. Because I very much have a desire for spiritual grounding, spiritual practices in my life. I think they're important. I think they're not only important for um connecting with God, which is again what I was raised with. Like that's the purpose of these spiritual practices, but I think they're also just good for your health, your wellness, your mental wellness, your capacity to love other people and to care for the world around you. I think spiritual practices are so important for things like that. So I want to live a life that is seeing the sacred in the everyday. And I think the best way to cultivate that is by doing things that do connect me spiritually. And one of those things is very, very much walking, like Mary Oliver herself. That has become the biggest way that I feel spiritually grounded. I I see it as a form of prayer because it's it's like a meditative practice. Um, I do way more listening than talking. It is more of a listening exercise for me because I walk on my road. I'm I'm I'm I keep looking out the window because my road is out there and I'm just envisioning myself like walking on the road. Yeah, I walk and it's uh it's a quiet road. There's there's like trees and fields on either side, and I just do a lot of observing and a lot of listening, and it definitely grounds me. Um, and that is the biggest form of spiritual practice that's in my life right now. And then I, of course, would also see my art as a spiritual practice as well. So let's get into some of the standout sessions of the conference. What are like the biggest talking points that I have learned from and appreciated and been inspired by? I'm gonna get out my notes to talk about this section. I have them all right here. And I went through these earlier and added some little poster notes for myself to make it easier to find things. I I did go through these earlier and I have a plan of what I want to talk about, but it's still difficult to pare down the things that I want to talk about because all of these things are so interesting

The Sacred in the Everyday: Liturgy, Mary Oliver, Wendell Berry

SPEAKER_00 32:30

to have conversations about. Okay, so one talking point that exists through the entire conference in many sessions is the sacred in the everyday or living a life of sacredness. And um I think this is a great segue because the walks that I take, they feel sacred, they s they feel spiritual to me, and I'm very much an observer of the little things, the little moments, the little physical things in nature, the ways that sun hits the leaves. You know, it's all about the little things, and I see all those all those things as little uh sacred moments. So this is very much up my alley. So there was this one session that was actually it was it was centered around this book. It's actually part of a series, so this book series called Every Moment Holy. And the guy who illustrated it was the one that led this session. Example of the illustration on screen for those who are listening. Unfortunately, I know you won't be able to see it, but so this book is a book of liturgy for the little moments of life. Now, what is liturgy? If you're like me and you grew up, um, well, I grew up Seventh day Avenist, but even though I grew up Christian, I still wasn't really familiar with the word liturgy. I think it just wasn't as big a part of my Christian culture. And we more so emphasized the benefit of praying casually, like God is your friend, like God is just there in front of you having a conversation with him. Not that it should be um something that disrespects God in any way, but it is more of a casual conversation. And a liturgy is more, in my understanding, is more of like a pre-written prayer, like poetry, um, something that is recited, especially with a con congregation. Um, and we I just didn't really grow up with that idea, but I really like it. So I do like the idea of like having prayer as a convert on as a casual conversation with God, because I do think it brings God to be a more personal God, and I think there's benefits to that. But I also enjoy the idea of a pre-written um poetic prayer and something that feels more like a sacred event, a sacred ritual. And I really I bought this book from the conference because I just love this idea of the little moments being seen as sacred moments. So in this book, there's prayers for or liturgies for the ritual of morning coffee. There's a there's a liturgy before serving others for dating or courtship, for gardening, for beginning a book, um, a lament upon the finishing of a beloved book. So um I just think bringing this kind of intention to the little moments we go through through the act of praying in those events, it's an idea that I am attracted to. I don't really use this book that often, if I'm being honest, but it does inspire me. So, yeah, that is definitely one example of how this conference often talks about the sacred in the everyday. Another session, the one that actually piqued my interest to go in the very first place was the session about Mary Oliver. And um, it was this professor talking about her life, the the kind of tenets of her faith, like the tenets of her life philosophy, and then of course reading a bunch of her poems as an example. So let me get those notes to share with you. So he called these the five tenets of her life philosophy, or her five articles of faith. And those five are attentiveness, really paying attention to things and being intentional with that. And one of the quotes from her that he used as an example is attention is the beginning of devotion. Again, very clearly spiritual themes there. The next tenet is celebration, ecstasy, and gratitude, but also like a celebration and ecstasy that sees and recognizes both the beautiful parts of life and the less beautiful parts of life. He used this quote from one of her poems, which I believe is after seeing an animal eat another animal, uh, you know, the circle of life. And this phrase from her poem about that says, My heart dresses in black and dances. So it's it's seeing the complete story and it's still celebrating like this this life, this circle of life, while also dressing in black, you know, recognizing the sad parts of life as well. The third tenant is the sublime beauty and power of nature. So kind of like the last one, both this I would say good and bad, but it's actually it's kind of hard to call nature bad, even a big storm. It's just its nature. Even if it it harms things, um it's nature being nature, and it's like this big thing that we just we can't contain. Another, so another quote that he uh wrote as an example or included as an example of this tenet was this one that says, Whatever the name of the catastrophe, it is never the opposite of love. The fourth tenet is inter the interconnectedness of all living things, all kind of being made of like the same fabric. And then belief, finally, the last tenet, belief in the miraculous. And for that tenet, he used part of her poem Vultures, and that part of that poem says, like large, dark, lazy butterflies, they sweep over the glades looking for death to eat it, to make it vanish, to make of it the miracle resurrection. And then it keeps going on. But you see, like the sense of the miraculous, the sense of beauty, but then also paired with the reality of death and the cycle of life. I would love to talk about Mary Oliver more, but that is unfortunately not the point of this video. But that was one of my favorite sessions. Him sharing about Mary Oliver and how she lives her life and how she has this practice of walking in the woods as a spiritual practice. So, Mary Olivery, guys, she's she's so good. Um, okay, moving on. The next person under this section of The Sacred in the Everyday, um, the next author that I was introduced to is Wendell Barry. And he is a poet. He's he also writes essays and larger books as well. And he really talks a lot about the sacredness of people and the sacredness of place. And I have actually talked about Wendell Berry. I've talked about both Wendell Berry and Mary Oliver in previous videos on Passion Fruit. Um, but definitely I remember specifically the video I talked about, Mary uh Wendell Berry, um, where I was talking about community, I think. And um what he talks about is that we in this, you know, modern era, at least in this this country, this culture, um, we do tend to move around a lot. We don't tend to stay in a place. And he really advocates for staying in a place, being connected with the people there, and also being connected with and having a love for the land there and living in this membership with the people and with the land belonging to a place and how

Imagination as a Christian Practice

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that is a sacred thing. So the next um standout talking point that I get from this conference that it is brought up quite a bit is the concept of imagination. Totally not surprising. Imagination is a com key component to creativity, but they also frame it as a key component to actually living a good Christian life. And I actually have some more quotes for you from this conference. Let me flip to that section in my notes. Okay, this quote is from Graham Greene, and it says, When you saw the lines at the corner of the eyes, the shape of the mouth, how the hair grew, it was impossible to hate. Hate was just a failure of imagination. So using the concept of imagination as like this very necessary tool to cultivate love and empathy for other people. Another quote that I heard at this conference was from Jeremy Begby, and he said, the divine project is to rehumanize. So again, using this tool of imagination, using the tool of storytelling, and rehumanizing people that we have been disconnected from. The person who was leading this session that I'm reading the notes of right now talked about how Jesus responded to just about all the questions he was asked with stories, because stories really are a form of being able to humanize someone instead of just cold hard facts. We, of course, talk a lot about Lewis and Tolkien in this conference, and one session that was talking about them and fairy tales said that fantasy, and I think this might be a quote from either Lewis or Tolkien, but you know, these all these quotes that I got in my notes are just like little blurbs that I scribbled down from the PowerPoints the professors were sharing. So I don't really know exactly if it is a quote or who it came from, but the concept is totally there with both Tolkien and Lewis. But fantasy is not a mere or escape, escape in fantasy in fairy tales, is not a mere forgetfulness, but an enabling in other worlds of imagination to cultivate our souls. So imagination and storytelling is a way to cultivate our souls. Like I said, to cultivate love for the other, to turn ourselves into better humans, to read and almost emulate like these heroes in the story, to learn from them and to then to emulate their actions in. In real life. And there's a big emphasis on the fact that artists need to be the ones who are leading people in doing the work of imagination. We need to be the ones to imagine the better future and to help bring us into that better future. A better future can only start with imagination. So we need to sanctify our imagination to be one of beauty and empathy. Um, which I think is really beautiful. And, you know, I love a practical takeaway. So this particular session ended with how to cultivate imagination in your life. And some of those points they said was first of all, what does your heart love? What do you love to do? And what makes you come alive and really follow those things. They also equated imagination, like the cultivation of imagination to prayer. Um, and at least for me, I do again use prayer in more of a more of a broad way, a a meditation, a connection with God, with the other. Um so that could look like physically praying words. I think it could look like walking and listening and letting your mind just be quiet and listen to another voice. So I think call I think imagination is cultivated by these quiet moments and by these very intentional moments to connect back with ourselves and to connect with God. And that is how to cultivate an imagination that will lead us into a better

The Image of God in Humanity

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future for everybody. Um, finally, one other theme that I see very often at this conference is the value of humans, or more specifically, the image of God in every single human. And I will just touch on that point briefly by reading this quote from C.S. Lewis. I'm gonna read the whole thing, it's a bit long, but I think it is worth hearing. It may be possible for each to think too much of his own potential glory hereafter. It is hardly possible for him to think too often or too deeply about that of his neighbor. The load or weight or burden of my neighbor's glory should be laid daily on my back, a load so heavy that only humility can carry it, and the backs of the proud will be broken. It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all only in a nightmare. All day long we are in some degree helping each other to one or other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and circumspection proper to them that we should conduct all our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal nations, cultures, arts, civilization, these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit immortal horrors or everlasting splendors. This does not mean that we are to be perpetually solemn. We must play but our merriment must be of that kind, and it is in fact the merriest kind, which exists between people who have from the outset taken each other seriously, no flippancy, no superiority, no presumption. And our charity must be real and costly love with deep feeling for the sins in spite of which we love the sinner, no mere tolerance or indulgence, which parodies love as flippancy parodies merriment. Next to the blessed blessed sacrament itself, your neighbor is the holiest object presented to your senses. Um obviously there are some beliefs about like maybe the afterlife there, talking about people as these either immortal horrors or what did he what word did he use? Immortal horrors or everlasting splendors. Um and I'm I'm really not gonna try to touch on theology in this episode, but I do like this idea in general, uh, that we are not mere mortals, that we are not ordinary people, that each person, if created by the ultimate creator, God, each person has the image of God in them, and that we should be taking the utmost care of each other. Um yeah, so I think that's just a beautiful concept and something that they definitely talk a lot about in this conference. I also believe that this kind of ties back into a little bit of a thread I've been referring to throughout this episode, that God and religion and God and Christianity is not a little box out of like the rest of life. It's it's not like as a Christian, you're supposed to spend all your time in this God box and avoid secular life. No, that's a I think that's a very limited way of seeing the world. Instead, I believe that God is more like a lens, and Christianity should be more like a lens, where as a as a as a God believer, as a Christian, you are seeing the world, all of it, in in all its darkness and all its light, through this God lens, and you're able to see the image of God in people, in things that people create. And I I certainly can't speak for everything, but I think that at least often there is something to be seen that either reflects God or or shows some sort of truth about God, about the nature of our existence, because it's coming from the perspective of this individual artist

The Unfortunate Christian Fear of Art

SPEAKER_00 51:20

who does hold the image of God within them. I just don't think Christians should be scared of art because I really think that a lot of Christians' interactions with art does seem to be out of fear. It's like we s it's like Christians see this art that they don't agree with and they don't agree with the message it's it's sharing. And instead of trying to learn from it and try to learn why that artist has that perspective, what could this be shining light on about that artist's experience in the world and other people's experience in the world? Instead of learning from their experience and their creation, we shy away from it as Christians and get scared of it and think it's going to pollute us in some way. Um, and I I think it is important to be discerning about what you engage with. I mean, I think everybody can agree with that. We all experience social media and we all experience like seeing sometimes really bad things on social media that we don't really want to see, and we can we have experienced that impact on our mental health. So, like, of course, there's truth there in being careful with the things you engage with. And I'm definitely not blaming anybody for choosing to not engage with certain things, but it does just seem to be a trend that often Christians don't seem to want to engage with like the majority of the contemporary art world, especially. Um, and this is actually this would be my one maybe critique of this con conference, because in my three years of going there, it does seem that they often like to talk about artists of the past. Some of the artists and and authors they talk about are still alive, but most of them, I mean, even if if they're alive, they're often from like they're often older and like from like a past a past century. Um and I just think there's so much art and so much going on in the contemporary art world to like today, the contemporary art world, that we should also talk about. So I don't want to assume that there that the people who host this conference or share things in this conference are scared of contemporary art. I definitely don't want to assume or say that. Um, but it is it is a gap I've been noticing. So I would love to see some more of that, some more engaging in what is being created now. But otherwise, I get so much energy and joy and inspiration out of this conference, and I look forward to it every year, and I'm just happy that I

Annie Dillard and the Pilgrimage

SPEAKER_00 54:01

got a chance to share it with you guys. Um, I know it sounds like I'm closing, but I just remembered there was a little bit more I wanted to talk about that specifically happened this year. My favorite session was one on the author Annie Dillard. I'd never really heard about her before, um, just like off-handedly, but I wasn't really that familiar with her. And in this one, we talked about the concept of a pilgrimage. So the the topic of this session was actually the reader as a pilgrim, something along those lines. And this idea of a pilgrimage is a concept that Annie uses in her work a lot. She has a book called Pilgrim at Tinker Creek. Um, so clearly, literally the use of the word pilgrim in that book. And this is just so relevant to my life right now because I actually have started seeing my walks as a form of a pilgrimage, like a physical pilgrimage, but then also kind of um a metaphorical pilgrimage, almost like my walks themselves represent the spiritual journey that I'm mentally going on. And I've just started to see and actually refer to that whole thing as a pilgrimage. So when I saw this session listed on the options for that day, I it was it was a no-brainer. I obviously had to go check that one out. And I also I got a lot from it, and I there was there's especially a lot of what felt like validation for the journey that I've been going on because we talked about what is a pilgrimage, what what makes a pilgrimage and like what's the purpose of a pilgrimage? And so much of it just confirmed like I'm going about my pilgrimage, quote unquote, in the right way, I suppose. Because sometimes it feels like I should be moving faster than I am in this journey, or sometimes it feels like I should have more specific questions that I'm asking. Because I don't really have that. I have a few specific questions, I guess, but even if I find answers that quite to those questions, which I don't really expect, like, for example, the question of does God exist, I'm not gonna find an answer to that question. So, like sometimes I feel like I should have more specific questions that I can do research on and satisfy those questions. And I just don't. That's not really how I'm going about my journey. Sometimes I feel like I should be more intentional about reading and learning on this journey. And while that's definitely something I'm interested in, I only have so much time and I'm already really busy as it is. And I just feel little bits of guilt sometimes for all of these things that I feel like I should be going about my spiritual journey in a different way. I should be going about my pilgrimage in a different, different way. Um, but really a lot of the things that was said in this session validated the way that I'm going about it and the speed that I'm going about it. So a few of those notes, a few of the things that stood out to me. Let's see. First of all, what does it mean to be a pilgrim? What is a pilgrimage? Um, and we all answered that question together, basically ended up with a pilgrimage is a journey with a purpose, but you don't always know what that purpose is. And also that it is about the journey itself. And pilgrim pilgrims are looking for some sort of transformation, and all of that very much resonates with me. Another point that I wrote in all caps was a pilgrimage is meant to be inefficient because it is about transport for goodness, my mouth is dry. Um, it is about transformation over transportation. It's not about how fast you get there. It is, it should be inefficient, and it can take as long as you need it to take. I also wrote down that a pilgrimage is not primarily an intellectual journey, and this was from a broader quote that I will just put on screen. And again, I apologize to our listeners, but if you're curious to see that that broader quote, um, you're welcome to look at it on screen. Those are honestly the biggest parts of that session that really stood out to me, and I just have even more embraced this idea of being on a pilgrimage and kind of would love to go on a physical pilgrimage someday. Uh on in this same conference, not the same session, but the same conference. I was actually introduced to the what is it called? Camino de Santiago in Spain. I believe it's in Spain. You know what? Let me let me look this up. I need to give you some more details if I'm gonna talk about it. So okay, okay, looking at Google, the Camino de Santiago, which I believe means the way of Saint or the way to St. James. Um, so it is literally a pilgrimage to where St. James is believed to be buried. It is, let's see, it says the most popular route is about 780 to 800 kilometers, typically taking five to six weeks. And the people that shared about this pilgrimage have actually gone on it themselves. I think they said it did take about that time, that amount of time, like five to six weeks. I wouldn't like I'm I'm not personally interested in seeing the the burial place of a saint. I didn't grow up in that sort of tradition. I did not grow up Catholic, as you know, um, kind of very opposite to Catholic Catholicism, but I still am really interested in the journey. Again, not the destination, not the destination of like seeing the burial place of St. James, but the journey to get to that destination, also the camaraderie of the people you meet on the way, the physical act of walking, all the opportunity for meditation, and then also opportunity for connection with other people, whether they're strangers or people that came with you. I am very interested in that. And maybe someday, whether it's that or another popular pilgrimage route, I will go on my own

Share about your own spiritual journey with me!

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

pilgrimage. Um, but that was exciting to me. And I'm going to end this section talking about the conference with this quote, going back to the concept of imagination, um, because I think imagination would just be a good thing to end on. And the quote spoken by this presenter said, Imagination is to look beyond what is, to see the raw material, and see what can be created with it. And now I have gone through all my notes on the Art and Faith conference. So thank you for listening. I hope you found some of that interesting. Obviously, I found it all very interesting and wanted to share that with you guys. These are all things that really, really truly are impacting my spiritual journey right now. And if you are going on your own spiritual journey, whether you call it a deconstruction, whether you call it question asking, whether you started out Christian and are leaving Christianity or are going to a different um denomination in Christianity, or maybe you even started out not Christian and you're you are getting interested in Christianity now, whatever, whatever it is, whatever can be defined as a spiritual journey for you. I am always so interested in hearing about other people's stories. And so if you want to leave a comment below telling me your story, um, please feel free to do that if you're watching on YouTube. If you're not watching on YouTube, you're welcome to click in the show notes. There's a button that says send us a text. You could send us a text directly to there. Um, I will say I won't be able to respond to you through that method. And the final way and probably the best way to share your story and just get into more of a conversation with me and possibly with the other passion fruits is to join our Discord and send a message that way. We're really trying to build up our Discord community. We want it to be a place where people feel um free to ask questions, feel free to talk about the things that are inspiring them, uh, and just are surrounded by a community of other people that are pursuing purpose in various ways in their own lives. So would love to hear your story. Feel free to share it in any of those ways. Um also just let me know if any of this resonated with you, if you also got inspired by hearing about my experience at this art and faith conference, if any of these concepts and talking points are things that you're also interested in, or maybe new um talking points that you really haven't heard before. I do want this episode to only be the first part of this conversation about art and faith. Like I said at the beginning, I think art and faith, it's really important that those those two go together and don't feel so um resistant of each other, like art and Christianity specifically. I think art is just such an important tool to be able to explore things that are more mysterious and things that are more above our current level of consciousness. There's certain things that just can't really be put into words or words that make logical sense. And the best way to explore those things is through an art practice of some sort. So I hope to have more episodes about this later. I hope to bring more passion fruit people into the conversation and maybe even some guests as well. So look forward to that. Stay tuned. And that is all I have for you today. I know I'm asking you to comment a lot, but hey, why not another question for you to answer? Let me know how you enjoy these solo episodes. Um, if you like the concept, who else you want to hear from on the team in one of these solo episodes. And uh yeah, we will be back in a couple weeks with another episode, probably not a solo episode. We'll be bringing more of the team back to talk together and to talk with you. But until then, let's keep growing together and stay safe, everybody. And um yeah, see you then. Thank you everyone for joining us today. Stay tuned for our next episode. And in the meantime, let's keep growing together.