15: Responding to your WILD Comments (Sister Wives? Really?)

We had SO MUCH FUN reading and responding to these comments! After working on building this community for a few years, it felt overdue to go through some of the most noteworthy comments we’ve received and bring them into our content. Thanks for engaging with what we’re doing. Your comments and questions make this worthwhile. 

Leave us some more! And don't forget to join our Discord server to keep the conversations going: https://discord.gg/gdTMBzkNjY
We’d love to hear from you!

⬇️ Find us in these places too!  ⬇️

Instagram: http://instagram.com/passionfroot.co

Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@passionfroot.co

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/passionfroot.collective


⬇️ If you want to connect with the team ⬇️

Darcie🎨
Instagram and TikTok - _thatoneartist_
YouTube and Facebook - thatoneartist
www.darciedenton.com
https://linktr.ee/_thatoneartist_

Max🎸
Instagram and TikTok - maxwellkozen
YouTube - Maxwell Kozen
Streaming platforms - Maxwell Kozen
https://beacons.ai/maxwellkozen

Adjoa🦋
YouTube - adjoaainghana

Music:
Track and Field - Arc de Soleil

#thepassionfrootpodcast #respondingtocomments

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

You know, I understand like we all think that these are the bad things about social media. Just like going all the way to it's worse than the atomic ball. Definitely a hot take. Welcome to Passion Fruit, where we navigate life, purpose, and faith outside the box. I'm Max.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

I'm Evan. I'm Mel. I'm Darcy. And I'm Adjua. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

Well, hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. This is going to be an interesting one because it's one of our least planned episodes in a while. Like this is going to be quite off the cuff. Yeah. So that should be fun. Darcy. Yeah. So for those of you who are tuning in, we are Passion Fruit. I'm Max. Darcy is Darcy. And we Or so I've been told by Yeah, by your parents years and years ago at time of birth. Um today we're gonna be answering questions and responding to comments. Not all things have been worded as questions. Let's get right into the questions

A brief thank you from Max!

SPEAKER_04 1:17

and comments. The first one I want to point out is um a while ago, like before we officially launched the podcast, I did a video essay called Men's Mental Health and My Move from Hell. And a lot of you, and and specifically actually people who I know in real life left comments on that video that I never got around to responding to. Just like timing-wise, when that video came out, I also had a lot of stuff going on. But I did want to say if you are one of those individuals who left either thoughtful or like lengthy, considered, or even like vulnerable comments on that video, I really did appreciate that. And I read all of them and I thought that they were like really, really thoughtful things that you all had to say. I felt very supported by that and very seen. And so I just wanted to acknowledge that and say like thank you all for those. Like that was very, very edifying and supportive for me. So thank you so much for that. I appreciate every single one of you. And I will make it a point to come back and leave thank you comments on those comments at some point before this actually comes out. So you'll you'll this what I just said will now be redundant. But alas, here we are.

"What are your hopes for Passionfroot in 2026?"

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Um, so that being said, earlier today, since I'm technically on story takeover right now, um I had put out over on Instagram, yeah, story takeover on Instagram. And I had put out um a little questionnaire box. I put that little thing there for people to submit questions, and we got a few. We got like three. So I'm gonna put those to you, Darcy, because I feel like these actually do they they're gonna be really resonant coming from your perspective in terms of an answer to these questions. So what I I mean we can both answer this, but like what are your hopes for Passion Fruit in 2026?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah, great question. Great starter question for me, especially people maybe that are new to Passion Fruit in this podcast episode. I have a feeling we're gonna get mostly people that like, you know, already follow us, but hey, we might have some new ones here. Um, but yeah, 2026, we do have some exciting stuff coming up. Um I think the biggest thing is that with this podcast being new this year, um, something else that we're really trying to implement now with the podcast is just inviting guests in. Um, we've already recorded an episode with a guest, and again, like I don't know what order these are being uploaded in, so that may or may not be up already. But she is our first official podcast guest. We have done a collaboration or two, or yeah, two that I know of, your aunt and Sienna Pierre. Um, so we've done those in previous YouTube videos when we weren't doing the podcast, but anyways, our first podcast guest will either be up now or is coming soon. And we have another one lined up that I'm really excited for. Um, and I don't want to give away his name. We'll just see that as a surprise, but I'm really excited for that. And I'm just excited for continuing to look for guests, like really interesting people to talk to. Yeah. Um I just had, as you know, Max, um, I just had a coffee meetup with somebody earlier this week that is part of another really exciting, like, yeah, it was really exciting. And she's part of a really cool social media group that also exists here and kind of has not kind of, but definitely has some overlap with Passion Fruit. We don't perfectly overlap in the topics that we're talking about, but there's definitely a faith overlap. Um there's definitely, like, specifically within that, a deconstruction overlap. Like that is a topic that is discussed on Passion Fruit on this other um group as well, and just navigating faith in this modern world. And I so very randomly met her a week or two ago, and then we set up a coffee date and our conversation went great. So these are the immediate things I'm really excited for with Passion Fruit. Um, of course, we'll have a group trip this year that we can all get together on. And maybe on that group trap trip, we might there's been some talk of wanting to have a live event that we so you know, we're we're online, but like we do like the idea of having some IRL events in the future. And maybe that'll happen this year, or maybe on that group trip we'll plan it for like the following year. Um yeah, what about you? Are there anything anything that I didn't mention that you're excited about for Passion Fruit this year?

SPEAKER_04 6:00

I mean, I resonate with all the things you mentioned. Um, I'm very excited for the group trip. I'm always excited for the group trip at this point. Like that to me, I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is the coolest thing I've gotten to do in like honestly, like within like the last 10 years of my adult life, like this is kind of ridiculous that we get to do that. So I I I love the trip. Like it's oh my gosh, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

It's always the best.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

Um I'm gonna try my best not. I was thinking about the last time where like we were all hanging out together, I think pretty early on. It was one of the first nights we were together in Australia, and I'm pretty sure like I came to where we were all hanging out and literally just fell asleep.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

So hey, that happens with like what 20-hour flights? I don't remember what it was, but it was an insane amount of time to be traveling.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

Yeah, yeah, it was a crazy journey. I like I I was just like, man, I I should have been awake for that. But granted, yes, jet lag, all of that. Suffice it to say, I still I love the trip. I think it's like such a cool thing, and uh, I'm really looking forward to that. Uh, I'm also eager to bring more guests on board. I think uh there's a lot of potential there, and I think I think we're at the point now where like getting new voices in makes a lot of sense. So I think that's gonna be a cool thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

I guess I'll also mention this isn't something I'm necessarily excited for with Passion Fruit, but it's a thing. The fact that Mel has had twins, like you know, she's the fifth member of Passion Fruit, and she was really involved with a lot of things for the past couple years, ever since we've we started. Um, but then she had twin boys in was it November or October last year, one of those months?

SPEAKER_05 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Um, and obviously had to step away quite a bit. Um, I have been talking with her behind the scenes, seeing how she can possibly get involved just a little bit. Again, not putting any pressure on her, but like just letting her know like if you want to do a few things, like here's some things maybe you can do. We might be able to expect a little update episode from Mel this year, maybe within the next few months, um, as she just discusses like what it's been like so far, motherhood, community as a mother, like those kinds of things. Um, so I'm excited about that. I'm excited for Mel as she is in this new, very, very new um phase of life. But obviously, it also comes with like us not being able to see her as much. So that's a little sad, but totally understandable, and we're mostly just happy for her.

SPEAKER_04 8:34

So yeah, yeah. Hope you're uh hanging in there, Mel, if you happen to catch this episode. Um yeah, it'll be good. And that's us, I think that's also part of why I'm looking forward to the group trip going well this year. Um, just to get everyone reunited, get reconnected to her in whatever way ends up being doable for her.

SPEAKER_06 8:54

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

Yeah. I think Passion Fruit. Oh, and I guess like if I have another hope for Passion Fruit this year, as I really want to keep building the community side of things. So if you're listening to this and you haven't joined our Discord server yet, would highly encourage you to do that. We're trying to create more space for conversations for people to connect with each other and all of that. Um, I would really love to see that thrive.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

So

"What has building Passionfroot taught you?"

SPEAKER_01 9:17

click the link below.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Well, uh, the next question we got on the Instagram story was what has building a passion fruit taught you? And I feel like I could try to answer this question, but I don't I don't feel like like I've been involved, but I feel like building a passion fruit is you in a very specific way, like in a in a special way. Like I'll speak to it if as needed, but like it feels like that's a Darcy thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

For sure. In a big way, yes. But I I definitely think each person has built it, of course. Like we've all built it together. Um, so I actually would love you to start because I do think I'll have more to say. Okay, maybe. But so maybe we should just like start with you and see what your experience with that has been.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

Um, in terms of like uh what have I learned from the process of us developing passion fruit? Um, one, I've learned a lot from your team leadership in terms of just sheer organization. Like, I think you have done such a really, really good job keeping things organized, making roles clear, um, problem solving, just like troubleshooting the different things that have come up. I it I've been very impressed by that. Um, and it's kind of in a way, it has set a new standard in my mind for like what I expect good problem solving leadership to look like. Um so I've definitely learned a lot about that. Um I also think um, you know, what coming into this, I always worried to myself that I was like when it comes to like my band, for example, I always worried that I was like running it the wrong way, or that like my leadership there was just like extremely flawed and naive and like dysfunctional or whatever. Um, and like the process of building Passion Fruit up has there's been so many parallels to other times when I've tried to start up a project or you know get something off the ground. There's been so many parallels to that, and like, oh yeah, this came up. Oh, we're at this point where we need to define this or this, or like oh, right now someone can't contribute to X, Y, and Z because reasons. And I was like, Oh, I've run into this before. Oh yeah, like this is just what it's like to figure out building something.

SPEAKER_05 11:37

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

And so that has kind of given me a sense of like, oh, I wasn't doing anything like egregiously wrong per se. It's just these are the kinds of challenges that come up when you're trying to run or start or maintain a new thing. Um so that's taught me a lot as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

100%. I think also I'll clarify that like I think the word learn is interesting because these are con these are concepts that you could just know because people tell you. Like you've heard people talk about leadership and what they've learned from it or something like my whole life, I'm sure I've heard people talk about that, but there's such a big difference between learning it mentally from somebody else telling you, and then learning it experientially. And I've learned experientially so many things from from running Passion Fruit. Yeah. Um I think honestly, just from the get-go, I learned new skill, like skills that I didn't really realize I had. Because like you compliment my leadership, and I really appreciate appreciate that, and it's very validating. But like it's also just kind of like the only way I know how to do it. Like just trying to be as organized as possible and like rolling with the punches, like it's totally new territory, and even when did we start? Two, three-ish years in. Um, like of course I've gotten a lot more used to this role, but like there still continues to be so much new territory, um, things that I haven't experienced yet and have to figure out how to like how to approach them. Um so definitely what you mentioned, like learning how to approach problems and just expecting that like you're gonna get thrown obstacles and problems along the way. It's going to happen, and it doesn't reflect on or usually it doesn't reflect on bad planning um or bad leadership. It's just what it is to um yeah, start a project. I've also learned like that about myself, I do tend to catastrophize things sometimes. Like if something goes wrong or if we have an issue pop up, um, off not often, maybe anymore, but like one of my tendencies is to kind of start catastrophizing that and being like, okay, if this, then this like years down the road. Yeah. Um like one really good example that I guess I think I'm comfortable with sharing is um since I kind of started off as the only passion fruit that was like deconstructing, like actively deconstructing. Um and then we started having more and more conversations about that, and other people started like kind of sharing about their own deconstructions or doubts or whatever. I started being like, wait, like is passion fruit just gonna be this become this whole big deconstruction and it's all my fault, which is really silly. And I think you were one of the people that actually helped talk me off that ledge a little bit. Um, but I've learned that in this role, when I do feel a lot of responsibility, I can tend to catastrophize like that. And it helps to have a team that does offer perspective and like help me see things in better perspective. Um let's see. Yeah, I could probably go on and on, so I won't do that.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

For sure. But I will I will say, like, I definitely can see it, like the obviously there's been parts of this that I've been uh uniquely demanding for you. Um and I think you've handled it very gracefully, all things considered. Um, so just figured I'd say that.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

I I appreciate that. And and I also always have to respond with this that I have a fantastic team of people. Like everybody is very cooperative, and um I mean it's difficult to have a team of people that doesn't want to work or like doesn't want to cooperate. Like, how do you get things done that way? So that happens, that exists. There are teams like that, and we have a team of people that are actually passionate about what we're doing. You guys care about what happens with passion fruit, and um yeah, want to work with me on things. So that makes it a thousand times better. And I don't know how I could be a leader if I didn't have people like that in my team.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

So well, that is appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 16:04

I think we've all remarked on like how freakishly lucky it is that we ended up with the team that we did, and just with the dynamic being as good as it is. So I'm grateful for that like all the

"Will you do a dance battle?"

SPEAKER_04 16:16

time.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Me too. Me too.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Okay, well, on that serious and touching emotional note, uh, final Instagram poll question was um will you do a passion fruit team dance battle?

SPEAKER_01 16:29

And I don't know if this person you didn't did you didn't ask this question, did you?

SPEAKER_04 16:37

No.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Did you submit this? No, okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:39

I did not. I can guarantee that the person uh who submitted this question is affiliated with vegan pizzas. Uh I won't call her name out any more explicitly than that, but you know who that is now. And if she's listening to this, she knows who she is too.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Um Wow. Will we?

SPEAKER_04 17:03

Yeah. I don't know. Uh I guess that's something to think about for the group trip.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

That would be wild.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

It would be hilarious. I mean, this this is the thing. Like, we have we've had like spontaneous dancing in your house before, like kind of just behind where your table is right now, honestly. So that has happened. Um not so much on the Australia trip. That was a very walk-around type of trip.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

But you know, who knows? Who knows what could end up on our itinerary for this year?

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yeah. Uh Wednesday at 5 p.m. to 6 p.m. dance battle.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Live streamed on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Wow. On a real note, I don't know. I would not be comfortable. Like as somebody who is just getting comfortable with just dancing in front of people, I don't know how I could do that. But yeah, you know, we'll see.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

I don't think that would be everyone's cup of tea. Exactly. I don't, I I couldn't see Mel going for that either, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_04 18:05

I could barely see me doing it. I would. Like, I would just because I don't care anymore. Like, I would, but it would it it would be it would be an interesting thing to happen. And then like Evan and Agile would probably be off on their own dancing anyways. So it's like true.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, just the whole time.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

It also feels like dance battles are kind of a thing of the past, like the recent past, but like they felt maybe more like a I don't know, 2010s thing. Do you feel that?

SPEAKER_04 18:32

I feel like I know what you mean, but I'm gonna defer to the wisdom of people who actually dance because I could be wrong. Good idea. You know, like maybe maybe dance battles are a real thing. Or the person who asked this question can just get fill us in on what format they have in mind.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Yeah. Where do you consume your dance battles?

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Yeah, what what is your reference point for dance battles so that we can know what you're looking for?

SPEAKER_01 19:00

We aim to please.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

We aim

Responding to a wholesome comment

SPEAKER_04 19:03

to please. Okay, so I did I did want to highlight this next comment just because I thought it was a really nice story. Like someone shared a personal story in response to one of Ajua's videos. This is the one where she's talking about um whether or not you should take your passion and try to turn it into a career or a business. And Ereses Yeats 5473 on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Oh, reading usernames is always fun.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Oh, yes. I'm gonna I'm gonna have so much fun reading all these usernames. Um, but left this comment, um, and I thought this was a nice story. So my grandfather was a terrific woodworker, made amazing pieces, his house was full of them, and he loved to make things for people as gifts. Over the years, many people asked him why he never started a business selling his creations. He would dismiss this with a wave of the hand, a grin, and nah, in true pop style. As I get older, I understand him more and more. It's okay to just do stuff for you, and those pieces he made for us through choice are so much more precious because of it, particularly now that he's gone and the little green heart. Which, like, I mean, yeah, okay, that's a little it's sad with the whole like having to, you know, say goodbye. But I I those kinds of memories, like that is priceless. That like that's that's the thing that we talk about, it like the the do-it just because thing that we always talk about when it comes to art, or like my thing with Fujimura and the gift economy thing. Like you can't you can't put a price on what it meant to be given one of those things, right? So I just wanted to thank this person for this comment and for sharing this thought with us because I I feel like it's a perfect encapsulation of a lot of the things we talk about on our platform.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Very much our kind of person.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

And we'll see if uh Adjua wants to say anything about this or not.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Thank you to the lovely commenter who left this note sharing about his late grandfather, who was an incredible woodworker. I love that years on you can still enjoy his pieces. And I love the idea that your grandfather didn't sell his woodwork creations as part of a business. I think it's very rare these days to see people creating for creation's sake. And also, I think creating, we can connect that to legacy and to relationship. You mentioned that your grandfather gave a lot of what he made away as gifts, and I think that that's so personalized and so special. There's so much history and a story that people keep with them of your grandfather. So I'd love to see more of us doing this, creating for our own legacy for purpose beyond profit, and to enjoy the quiet satisfaction of creating things that we love.

Did we make up Canadian slang?

SPEAKER_00 21:46

So thank you for this lovely comment.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

All right. I see some yellow highlight, which means it's my turn to read. So are you wanting me to take over the next little section? Yeah, yeah. All right. So it looks like we have a few comments. From Instagram. We have this series on there, which has been doing pretty well. Yeah. We've been we've actually had two of these series of like language and slang from different people's like cultures, I guess, and countries and stuff. The first one we started with was um Mary Ellen and Adwa shared some Australian slang with the rest of us, and we all had to guess what each slang word was. And then the next series we did was Max sharing Canadian sling with us. For some reason, that series kind of took off on Instagram. We were getting a lot of people commenting various things on it. So we have a couple comments on those that again, I am reading for the first time, so this will be fun. All right. So first one on Canadian slang part seven. Smalls the kid said, I've lived in Canada my whole life, and this is just a made-up term. I've never heard it before. So I'm assuming you know which term they were referring to.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

You know, I already forget, but that's the thing. Every term is a made-up term. What are you talking about? Like, yeah, that's words are made up. That's what do you what do you mean it's a made-up term? Yeah. So true. That's no, it doesn't max.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

It doesn't exist if small as the kid has never heard of it before.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Dang it, small as the kid making my vocabulary retroactively not exist. Oh but I also like I did I did leave a comment just being like, yeah, we have like region specific, like throughout that series, like the Canadian slang videos, we have a lot of region-specific slang in there. So I'm not saying that like all of the things we said in there are used universally across the whole country. I mean, for goodness sake, it's a bilingual country with like a very distinct French corridor in it that's like kind of sectioned off from the rest of the English speaker. So yeah, there's nothing that's like a universal Canadian term per se. But like I don't know. I saw so many comments like this one. I don't mean to pick on this one particular user, but I thought it was just like emblematic of like I'm I'm from Toronto, I don't know. I've no one says us. I was like, okay, there's different parts of the city too. Give me a break, man. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yeah, come on. You're right. I saw a lot of those comments too.

"The sister wife games"

SPEAKER_01 24:24

It's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Um, yeah, this next comment really does trump that one though. Um, it's like kind of my favorite for being just awful.

unknown 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

For stirring the pot. Um Dustin J. H Lady.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

I think it's comedy. Oh. It's it's Dustin J. Hlady, I think. I don't know if that's the correct pronunciation, but yeah, H-L-A-D-Y is the last name.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Okay, that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

That person said thank you for joining the Sister Wife Games.

SPEAKER_04 25:04

When I when I tell you, and it's not even like we've gotten a lot of comments like that. I think we might have maybe gotten one other, or maybe it's just this one. I've also like I've I've I get comments from real people in real life about stuff, you know, because we're online. Yeah, people can see, like, we cross post with my account all the time. So people see what we're up to. And like, I don't know what it is. I I don't know what's wrong with people or why the sight of me being around a group of women just like sets something off where people just remark the strangest things and like go to I don't know. I don't know, man. It's just I I feel like pointing it out because like I've had people just be like, Max, I I oh I saw you uh you you went on a trip with women, and it's just like give me a break, like come on, like get real, I don't know, I don't know, man. I I just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

It's interesting. I think people are just going to perpetually be weird about like male-female relationships that are just platonic, like just male female, like so many people out there say, Oh yeah, men and women can't be friends, like it's just impossible. Like you can't just be friends. Um, which I don't know. I just I'm sure for some people, maybe that could be like ring true on a level. Like, you know, some like husbands and wives don't really want their partner to hang out with the opposite sex alone. And like in some cases, sure, like I can respect that. That's your personal opinion, but there's just also so many different types of friendships and so many different dynamics, and like I think we can learn so much from each other as different genders that like I wouldn't want to keep myself from. So also the the makeup of passion fruit being one guy and a bunch of girls, we didn't set out to make that happen, it just happened, yeah, and then we realized the night the dynamic is great, like this is good, we'll just keep it here. We thought about adding another guy several times, but we didn't really want to change what we had, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

Yeah, and like again, like the whole process of us like ending up with this group of people was very serendipitous in its own right. But yeah, like I think I also I can respect if people have their own personal boundaries where they're like, okay, I'm personally not comfortable with X, Y, and Z. Cool, like I can't object to that for you because that's literally about your own experience or whatever. But I feel like that whole thing about like, oh, men and women can't be friends. I'm like, I I do actually think that's true, particularly for the people who think that. Yeah. Um, yeah, and it's just like almost in a unique way. It's like if you are so intent on kind of living in that headspace of just being like, Well, there's gotta be something else going on there, then I'm sure that if you allow yourself the chance to have a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, there will be something more going on there since you can't conceive of we're all being anything else.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

We're all living in our own realities, we're all creating our own ra realities out here, right?

SPEAKER_04 28:30

So yeah, I mean that that perspective is really driving a lot. And and maybe I'm reading too much into this, and this person was just thinking of themselves as a little comedian just being like, oh, all the sister wife games.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Honestly, it was a little funny. I got I don't want those comments particularly, but it was a little funny. It's a little funny, or maybe I I snort laughed.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

I don't remember what I did.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Okay. I don't know if it matters.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Do you do you remember it that distinctly? Like it's a very good thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Well, I feel like I feel like a snort laugh kind of gives like, oh, like that was funny, even though I didn't want it to be funny. You know what I mean? I see that.

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Yeah, I see. I see what you're saying. Is that retconning it as a snort laugh, then?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Is that one?

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Retconning? Like you're you're retroactively deciding that that's what you did.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Yeah. Go with that. I've never heard that term before.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

Retcon?

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah, I've never heard that term before.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Oh, really? Like, um, yeah, retconning, like they make the sequel film, and then in that movie you find out, well, actually, that was your cousin all along, and they were gonna justify it by adding all this extra information to retroactively fix the continuity. That that yeah, retcon.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Gotcha. What has building Passion Fruit taught me? It's taught me what the word retcon means.

SPEAKER_04 29:51

Oh, see, there you go. This this was actually very elaborate ruse. We meant to do that from the beginning. Vocabulary memorization.

"Social media is a worse invention than the atomic bomb"

SPEAKER_04 30:05

My gosh.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Well, we got another um Instagram comment, and this is on I'm so excited to make you have to read this out loud. Oh boy. Thank you. Thank you ahead of time. It says on a promo post for social media video. What does that mean, Matt?

SPEAKER_04 30:24

For social media video. You had done oh yeah, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Oh, for the social media video.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

Yeah, we did a we did an episode on is social media like good, beneficial, harmful, whatever, especially for creatives. And you did a promo post for that.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

So that's already posted. I don't remember which order, but yeah, and then you had asked people what they think. Okay, yes, yes, yes. Thank you for jogging my memory. Okay. Space stags or spaces tags. I'm gonna go with space stags, but anyways. Um, they said conceptually good. So speaking about social media, I guess, conceptually good, but terrible in practice, much like AI has turned out to be. My hot take is that it is a worse invention for humanity than the atomic bomb when you consider the impact of mass psychological, mental, cultural, and social harm, spread of misinformation, and anti-intellectualism. The fact that every algorithm, this is a really long one, the fact that every algorithm prioritizes negativity and operates with a right-wing bias, leading to not singularly, the resurfacing and global normalization of fascistic and authoritarian regimes, mass surveillance, and a direct link for every billionaire to beam propaganda straight into your hands at any point. I I think when you rally, when you tally, they wrote rally, but I'm assuming it's tally. When you tally it all up, and the fact that nuclear weaponry whilst oh wow, a whilst a whilst makes it really fancy. Oh, whilst, is that how you say it? I think it's or whilst whilst obviously terrible. Okay, so sorry. I got I got caught on a sidetrack. I think when you tally it all up and the fact that nuclear weaponry, whilst obviously terrible now, acts as a deterrent against pause against possible conflicts, I think social media wins out as the worst invention we've ever made.

unknown 32:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

I definitely have not read this comment before. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

I didn't even realize that was in there. Yeah, no, I don't think I had read that comment until um today, actually. Um but I was just like, man, we're like, you asked, like, is social media a good thing? And we got all the way to nuclear deterrence. Which is wild. Um mind you, like, I yeah, as far as like, you know, promoting like anti-intellectual ideas and misinformation and like political propaganda and stuff, I'm totally with this person's comment in terms of like, you know, I understand like we all think that these are the bad things about social media, just like going all the way to it's worse than the atomic bomb. It's definitely a hot take. It is definitely a hot take. Like I would I would say on the scale of hot takes, that is at least three Nagasakis and two Hiroshima's of hot take, which I can say given my particular intersection.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah, let's clarify that. Let's clarify that. Man, yeah. No, I'm with you. I agree with the concept that the that social media has had catastrophic effects in certain ways. Like, and you know, we've kind of talked about this. We went over like the good and the bad of social media. I think maybe it's important now to try to have a more maybe not across the board for everybody, but like having an optimistic view on social media might be better than having a negative view because we can't do anything about it. I mean, you could get off, you know, but sure. Um, but yeah, it's had a lot of a lot of consequences for sure. Comparing it to the atomic bomb is wild, and I don't think I would do that. But um certainly a choice. Certainly a choice, but but thank you for commenting.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

I do think it's an interesting, like I I see what this person was trying to do there, just being like, well, okay, nuclear weaponry, at least that does nuclear deterrence. And so, like, okay, we haven't had a technically a world war since World War II. Darcy, are you familiar with nuclear deterrence?

SPEAKER_01 34:55

No, no, no. I kind of just assumed like I just took it as I just took context clues and just guessed, but I guess I don't really know what it means.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Basically, like it the idea is that like because nuclear weapons are like so catastrophic, like once anyone actually hits launch, it's kind of like game over for everything. And so the fact that uh so many countries now have them, it kind of forces this situation where everyone is kind of going like, I dare you not to I I dare you to not escalate this because if you do, then I might also and it's this it's kind of it's this thing that supposedly apparently it works, you know. Apparently, like this has like averted us escalating certain conflicts or whatever. It's like, oh yeah, like countries don't want to cross each other's vague, unclear lines, and so they kind of stay very far away from the things that would trigger that kind of response. So there's basically the idea.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

The a nuclear deterrent is basically the concept that, like, say this country has a nuclear bomb and this country has a nuclear bomb, and therefore there is a deterrent from using it because the threat is on both sides. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_04 36:22

Yeah, basically, it's like everyone who has them understands like w how crazy it is to have them, and how crazy it is for other people to have them. So the fact that everyone is kind of playing this tiptoeing game around each other reminds people to keep tiptoeing.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Okay, yeah. Please keep tiptoeing.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

Yeah, please keep tiptoeing. This is my message to the world. Please tread softly. Yeah. So I I understand, I think what this person was trying to go for there is like, hey, there's this thing that like maybe that actually in some sense is contributing maybe to like a decreased death toll.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Okay. But I see what they're saying.

SPEAKER_04 37:03

The analogy then would be like, okay, so what are the like I you're in the States right now and I'm in the UK and we can talk to each other, like you know, like our communications technology is still doing good things too. So like there's an upside to social media too. Like it's not like it's all like it doesn't stab me in the face every morning when I wake up. You know, it's not just like all bad.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Yeah. I mean it's redeemable on a certain level, but I guess that level is like each individual's level because you can't change the whole thing. You can only change the whole thing if every individual decides to start like being careful about what they share and like not showing misinformation and not like bullying, like you know, everybody has to make that decision, which seems like an impossible situation. But on an individual level, you can choose how you use it, and that at least gives some sort of control. Right. Yeah. But it's I know it's it still feels kind of uh overwhelming for sure.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

Yeah. Well, I think thank you to this commenter for getting us talking and thinking. That one was that one was fun. This is what I mean when I said some of these are a little

Comments on our most popular video

SPEAKER_04 38:05

spicy. I'm drifting us over to some of our YouTube comments. This and most of them are YouTube comments, and a lot of them are directed at you, and a lot of them I mean, I would say most of the comments we've gotten on Passion Fruit overall are from your create more than you consume video. We do have a lot of that. That's like our Magnum Opus, that's our our big hit. Um so uh Hannah Gallifrey says, Can I just say that I love your fit, your style, your earrings, and your hair, heart, eyes, emojis times two.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Thank you, Hannah Gallifrey. Did I not respond to that one?

SPEAKER_04 38:45

Um I don't think so. I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

I have a memory that I did, but maybe did.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

I mean, that that video also has a lot of comments. So it's easy for any of those to fall through the cracks.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yes. And I I did honestly at a certain point give up responding.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Really appreciate all the comments, but like oof, there are a lot, so it's obviously difficult to get

Goose

SPEAKER_01 39:06

to all yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

But you do have great style. There is that.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Thank you. I do try. Let's highlight the duck sweater that I am wearing today. Oh, goose, goose, goose. I keep calling it duck. I actually feel like we've had this conversation before, like amongst the passion fruits. Really? Maybe me and Mel. I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure it happened with one of you guys, maybe Evan. I called it a duck before. And and they were like, Yeah, that's definitely a goose. Duck or goose? Definitely goose. It's it's it's a goose that also has nice style. Yes, she has great style. She's wearing a little hat, little like wreath necklace thing.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

R.I.P. to everyone listening to this on Spotify or somewhere else who can't see the goose. Yes, but hopefully you'll see.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Yes. Go to the YouTube video and go to the chapter marker that says goose. And now I have to do that. Now I have to.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

I'm pretty sure I have to edit this episode though.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Well, you'll edit that, but I'll have to yeah, you'll have to tell me what the chapter marker is for that.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Yeah, see, the none of this is on you. All of this is on me.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

You're welcome.

"Don't consume or create"

SPEAKER_04 40:12

Yeah. Okay. Madame Blatvatsky says, Don't consume or create.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

I do remember this one. I yeah, it did not, I did not respond to that one. I I just felt like this is a very skeptic cynical take on this whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

Well, that and like if you had responded, then you'd be creating a response and you would be demonstrating that you consumed this comment. So, you know, like that's so true. You know, yeah. You're you're just cooperating.

"How do I stop spinning and focus on an idea?"

SPEAKER_04 40:44

Okay. Here's a real actual question. Josh H Films22 asks, now, how do I stop spinning? Again, this is uh in response to the create more than you consume video. How do I stop spinning and focus on an idea? Mastermind, tell us.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

I'm assuming he means like how do I stop kind of going from one idea to the other and I think so. How do you do that? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

That could almost be a topic unto itself, actually.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Yeah. Um yeah, I think it's almost like it kind of depends on the idea that you have because you have to have an idea that is interesting enough for you to want to follow it through, right? Right. Like as an artist and anybody who's listening that's an artist, Max, as a musician, I'm sure you can relate to this too. Like, there's a lot of projects that I've started and I just haven't finished, um, whether it's a simple drawing or painting or like an even a bigger idea for a project of some sort. Um, there's plenty that I've I've started or written down and I don't get back to. And that's just because maybe the time for them hasn't come or they're just not interesting enough. Maybe they need to sit a little while.

SPEAKER_05 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

And many of them won't won't be addressed. But um I think having one that is interesting enough is the it's the starting point. And then um honestly, like having accountability for it. Um very simple answer. But the way you can have accountability for me, sometimes that's maybe it's a project that I'm doing with other people and just sharing, or it's a project that I could do with other people. So sharing that idea with other people really gets the ball rolling. Um or sharing progress photos either online or with like a few friends to keep you going. I don't know. There's there's lots of ways you can try to do that. It I know it can be difficult though, because you get an idea and then you don't even have much time to like work on that idea, and then you it's a it's been a whole week of like just working your job, and then you try to get back to that idea, and oh, another one has come that seems more interesting. So that's happened to me for sure. Do you have any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_04 43:05

Well, kind of to that point, actually, like another idea comes and it's like, oh, that's more interesting. I feel like um, like to to the person who asked this question, it can feel sometimes like you're kind of going in circles or like kind of stuck between like, oh, what about this? Oh, but what about this? Oh, but what about this? And and it's important not to like over-evaluate that and just be like, oh, that must be bad. Because like sometimes like not every idea is worth the same amount of focus. Because like there's some ideas that you like you get it and then you execute it quickly and simply, and it's not a very big idea, and oh it's done. And it likes okay, that didn't take a lot of focus. And then there's some ideas that like take a lot of focus only for you to get to the end and finish it and be like, I mean, I could have done without that. Like, I didn't have to make that. You know what I mean? Right. So it's like, yeah, like sometimes you spend a lot of time figuring out what like trying. To figure out what you want to start, and then you try it, and it's like, oh, this wasn't worth it that much. Sometimes it's just yeah, it's just a matter of like letting go of an idea and just being like, Oh, okay, it's fine, like I can let this one go. Because yeah, same thing with like I've got all these like unfinished song ideas and stuff, and ideas that I I had they they literally I focused on them just for the sake of getting the the junky, sucky ideas out so that a good one could emerge, right? Yeah, and that's fine, just you just leave it at that, right? Um, yeah, e even unfocused work sometimes can be valuable.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

True. Just playing around, just art for the fun of it. Just that's really important. I'd say that's so important, actually. Because that is when the ideas really start coming. I think also um just the whole concept of like something in motion tends to stay in motion. Right. Um, it can be really easy or really difficult to just start, like starting could be the most difficult part of a project because you might have the idea, but like you're really tired at the end of the day, and all you want to do is watch TV or scroll on social media, like do something that's the least requires the least amount of energy. Um I've actually started realizing like in moments where maybe I'm waiting for something to load on the computer, like waiting for a project to download or something. I usually will either start up the podcast I've been listening to or like start scrolling. But that's time that I could be spending doing something creative. I'm not saying that every bit of time has to be filled with something, but um today I did start doing that a little bit. I have an idea I'm working on right now, and I started just like in the in my spare moments, I would start writing lists and like brainstorming or sketching out some ideas. Um, so just starting very little bit at a a very little bit at a time and maybe like trusting that momentum to keep you going, you know, making sure you're committing to those first few moments of creating and then just trusting the process that it'll get easier the more you the more time you spend on it.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

Yeah. I feel like it what you've been saying kind of reminds me also of like um Miss Julia Cameron in the artist way and how she talks about how like making space for play is so important, and that in itself is kind of part of like being able to have like the the gears well oiled enough, so to speak, that you can start. Like if you make if you make space for play, then the the actual act of getting started on an idea, it's it's not like pulling teeth to do it. It's just like no, you've made space to just be like, I'm gonna screw around and see what happens type of thing. Um which I've been you know, that's been a super big insight. Thank you for pushing me with regards to this book.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

I'm so glad you're reading it. I really can't wait to like um pick it apart with you after you finish and just get your final thoughts on it.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

Yeah, I have many thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

So excited.

SPEAKER_04 46:57

Um it probably have to I'll I'll have to take a second trip through it. But to to this person who asked the question, maybe pick up the artist's way by Julia Cameron and and commit to going through the several weeks of this program. It's it could be very beneficial. Like I've benefited

How to find the community you crave

SPEAKER_04 47:15

from it. So there's that.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Highly recommend.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

JME Rooster one says, I wish I would be able to interact with more people like you in real life. Well, Darcy, um, what's uh what's your phone number for this person?

SPEAKER_01 47:32

My phone number is um actually on Instagram and it's at passionfruit.co where you can find a lot of other people like me that you can interact with. Very cool.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

Or you can interact with so many people like us by joining our Discord.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Link in the description.

SPEAKER_04 47:50

Link in the description, join the Discord, become part of the conversation. Uh, but this is this is exactly who that's for. We want we want to have them be able to connect with each other because there clearly a lot of people resonated with this video with the create more than you consume video, and we'd love to bring those people in. So join the Discord.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

I also guess they did say in real life. So, you know, I know the Discord, Instagram is not real life. And I I hope you can interact with more people like that in real life too. Like, I I obviously don't know where this commenter lives um in my area. It's really easy to find people like that. I don't live near a big city, but I do live near a city, and like I can find plenty of people like that. Um, I know people who live in more like rural areas that can get really difficult. Um, but I do wish that for you. And maybe there's some corners of your your town that you haven't really tried exploring yet. Um, maybe there is a bigger city within an hour of you. I don't know if you can drive, but yeah, maybe there's just some places you haven't thought of looking yet. So I'd encourage you to just try to think through that, see if there's any possibility that you could find more people like that.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

I feel like people are often able to surprise us when it comes to just how much depth there is in a any given person. It's just taking the chance on the people you meet, you know, just seeing what's in there.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Yes, exactly. On that note, like maybe the people around you do have that within them. And but it starts with you kind of making that a safe space for people to talk about things like that. Like in this video, you know, it was talking about creativity and consuming less. So I don't know, if those topics are important to you, you could try to start those conversations and see if there is um those feelings in your local area too that just need a little bit of encouragement

Surviving art school

SPEAKER_01 49:45

to be pulled out.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

I like that. It's a really good thought. Yeah. Felt Base 738 says, I study art I study at art school, but I haven't created anything in a year that wasn't for school. My life is absolutely empty. I have no friends, and all I want to do is sleep. I want to leave this all behind and start anew somewhere far away.

SPEAKER_05 50:04

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

First of all, sorry you're going through that. That's not fun. Um, Darcy, having done art in school, uh, do you have anything that you can relate to in this or any thoughts about uh you know, school eating your creativity or anything?

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Honestly, I I don't think I can relate, at least to this exact scenario, because art school for me, I think opened my eyes to what the art world could be, and it gave me so much like yes, it was assignments I was having to work on, but like so much time for art, and I was focused on art all the time. And then graduating from school, it was kind of sad to now realize I only maybe have 10 to 20 minutes a day for art as opposed to like all day when I was in school. In one way, I could relate a little bit, um, or even allude to like Mel, um, Mel's experience being a graphic designer. Um, and with me working for Passion Fruit, I create a lot for Passion Fruit. Um and it's not, you know, it's not necessarily for me. So I guess I can relate to that feeling a little bit. And I know Mel has commented on um, like wanting to create more for herself. I don't know if I have any great advice, but just maybe trying to again carve out that little bit of time like we were talking about earlier to that other comment, a little bit of momentum, a little bit of time just to create art just for art's sake. If you can find those tiny pockets of time in your day, I think it would be well worth it. It might be able to do some to turn some things around for you. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that you're you're having a hard time, or at least were nine months ago. Hopefully things have turned around by now.

SPEAKER_04 51:52

Yeah, please. Um, one thing I will say to that too, because I've been in that position before where I was like, you know, when I was doing my master's, I was like, wow, school is eating my entire existence. This kind of sucks. Um, and it's not that there was no joy in my life at all per se, but I can relate to that heavy feeling of just like, wow, this is very all consuming, you know? Um, and one of the things that I saw that was interesting was some of the guys who I graduated with, or maybe who graduated right before me? I remember one of them like giving a talk to some of like our people in our cohort where he was basically saying, like, hey, monetize your skills. Like, you did research papers, make a little book, right? Like, make a make a little book. You can give that to people, you can sell it to people, whatever you want. But like, okay, you did that for school. Is there a way that you can turn it into something that's more for your own purposes now? Because you've done the foundational work for it. Like, why not make a little scrapbook of these were the things I did when I was in art school? And like, that's now a personal showpiece of sorts. Like, maybe that doesn't fix everything, but like often things that are for one thing in one instance can later on become for another thing through the power of imagination. So, you know, I I and that's not to belittle the comment at all. I'm actually I'm dead dead serious. Like, see if there's a way that you can take some of what you're working on and turn it into your own thing, at least derivatively. Um, that could

"Why cut down on listening to music?"

SPEAKER_04 53:27

be a possible reframe. Yeah, I like that for this person. This is just more of like a fact, like a straight up factual question. Well, not factual, but more of like a what did you mean by this? FGBG uh uh F FGBG1MB says I'm mostly on the same page with most of these. Why cut down on music? Consuming art like music helps me on a lot of fronts and makes me happy in general. I also listen to CDs a lot, so really slow consumption. Do you have any thoughts on that? Like what what did you have in mind when you made the suggestion that they seem to be responding to?

SPEAKER_01 54:06

So when I'm talking about like um cutting down on listening to things, because I I've I in the video I said like leave more silence in your life, leave more space for your brain to think things. Um, and I think the biggest culprit is um things that have talking in them, you know, podcasts and YouTube videos. I think music is better to listen to, like, not it's easier for your brain to just have its own thoughts while you're listening to music. That being said, I think there is still something to be said for getting comfortable with silence, just letting like nothing go on, like not having to entertain yourself in any way and just being alone with your thoughts or alone outside listening to nature sounds. I think that I think that is valuable in its own way. Um but I do think yeah, music is better than like podcasts and stuff. So this per for me too, I think it's also just like listening to my brain. And when I listen to stuff all the time, I feel mentally exhausted. Maybe this person isn't feeling that, you know, maybe just it doesn't, it's not something they really need to cut down on. So I'm totally willing to say that's an option to right.

SPEAKER_04 55:20

So it this could be circumstance, but also what you're saying, you're not anti-music, you are pro integration of silence.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

Yeah, exactly. Makes sense. It's funny, there is a lot of I think misunderstanding comments on this video. Yeah. Being a bigger video, of course, there's gonna be that. But it was some of these comments. I was like, guys,

"1st world problems"

SPEAKER_01 55:44

right.

SPEAKER_04 55:45

MB Financial says first world problems through their smart device.

SPEAKER_06 55:52

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

Thank you for correcting us about first world problems on the internet. Internet user who has time to comment on people's YouTube videos.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 56:04

Thank you for providing us

"Just create a child"

SPEAKER_04 56:05

with first world solutions. All right. Uh driver driver v86 says.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

I remember I remember reading this one. I think that's exactly how I reacted to it.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

Create a child. It's probably the most radical and fulfilling thing that you could do, particularly since you're talking about purpose.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

Yeah. I don't like that one either. Good grief. I would love to have kids someday. Not even gonna get into the conversation about not every woman wants to have kids or should have kids. Like that's just I don't think we're gonna get anywhere like saying that to this person.

unknown 56:45

No.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

What we can do, we can ask, we can put this as another question that we ask Mel, and we can ask her if she creates more children than she consumes. Which I assume.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

More children than the children she consumes? Because that's how it sounded like a little bit of a child.

SPEAKER_04 57:03

Well, I'm assuming I'm assuming the answer is yes, because she has created two children. I assume she consumes zero children.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

Yeah, probably doesn't consume any children.

SPEAKER_04 57:12

Yeah, I I don't think she eats kids, so we could put that one to her.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

I think we can safely say she doesn't eat kids, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:18

Yeah, okay. Mel Mel does not eat children. You heard it here first.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

That's a wild soundboy soundbite. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 57:25

We could just post that in isolation on

"What's that funky mic?"

SPEAKER_04 57:28

Instagram as a short. Okay. From the Why Does Life Move So Fast and How to Slow It Down video. What's that funky mic? Says Tatiana Tatiana Ribrova.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

It is Snowball? Is that what it was? I don't use it anymore.

SPEAKER_04 57:49

Right. Is that blue?

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Yes. I think so. I would show it on screen, but I don't have it near me. You're dark and such a snowball.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

Yeah, that's not really I'm getting it. Hang on. That's that's it right there. Uh so yeah. Blue. Oh no, no, no, but not Yeti, not Yeti though. Yeah, I'm just seeing blue snowball ice. So if you're interested in this funky looking microphone, there you go. Blue snowball ice. That's what it's called.

SPEAKER_04 58:18

Ice ice baby.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

But now we've all upgraded to Samsung Q2U mics, and they're also they're fantastic. I would read it.

SPEAKER_04 58:27

I'm enjoying these very, very much. Very, very, very, very, very much. Fun fact, my band's first record that we did, we used blue microphones. I think they're actually I don't think they were the IU, but we had blue mics as um our drum overheads for that first record, so that was kind of fun. They are very good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

When you say first record, that's like the to the wind. That's the one with to the wind on it, or is that early?

SPEAKER_04 58:53

No, before that, earlier. Yeah, swimming to the stars. Yeah.

"I find it arrogant when a Christian insists their god must be good"

SPEAKER_01 58:56

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 58:57

The early, early, the old stuff.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

So this one is on the When Beliefs Change video, and that's our first second podcast on here, I think. Yeah. That's when we're all talking together in Australia.

SPEAKER_05 59:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

Um, this person said, I find it incredibly arrogant and unempathetic when a Christian asserts that their God must be good because they are the quote special one that has been blessed with the quote positive personal experiences. I would simply ask, how many corpses of babies did they have to step on, oh, ooh, and crush beneath their feet to reach the conclusion that their God is, quote, good.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

How do you want to respond to that one?

SPEAKER_04 59:46

Well, so specifically, um, this person is actually commenting on I think a section of that video where Mel was taught because Mel is the one who had made the remark about having positive personal experiences that she attributes to God and that being part of her own ongoing journey. So I did just kind of in light of recent discussion, not only does Mel not consume children, she also does not step, step on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Yeah. I thought I thought that was um unfortunately another through line of this podcast as I was reading it. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:24

Apparently. But um, yeah, I I just think it's I wanted to highlight this comment and the next section, because this person left two comments on that video. I find this really interesting because like, on the one hand, I can understand the the point that they're making about saying, like, oh, well, what makes you so special that you can just say, like, oh, well, my personal positive experiences mean that this thing is good. But I just don't think that they're providing a reasonable counterexample here. Because like any anyone who has firsthand experienced something as good, even if they're mistaken about it, like even if they've completely misunderstood it, they've still experienced a certain it a certain way. So if you're gonna tell them, well, it's actually not like that, then you gotta tell them something that's actually related to anything, and not just assert that, like, well, if you believe God is good, then you're a baby killer.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:19

It's just like it's like zero to a hundred. Yeah, zero to a hundred real fast. And what does that like I mean it is a really strange question? How many, how many kids did you have to step on to arrive at that belief? Well, zero. No, that's not how you that's yeah, not how most people arrive at that belief. I'm not saying but what people will do, what people will do here is twist it into saying, like, oh, so you're saying no one has ever done anything violent in the name of religion. No. But they didn't, they didn't do it to arrive at their religion. They already believed in the religion and then committed atrocities in its name.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

But like that's not that's not how you get there.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:58

Right? It's not like, oh, I don't know if God is good yet. Maybe if I kill some people, like that doesn't make any sense. That is just that doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

It feels like they were trying to allude to something specific when they said that, but I have no idea what their thought process was for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:14

The very first thing that comes to my mind is a passage from one of the I think it's Psalm 138. I could be wrong. It's it's within that range of psalms there. Um, and there's this one particular line where the psalmist says, Um, you know, blessed is the one who takes your children and dashes their heads against the stones. I'm sure you've encountered that verse before, right? And a lot of people will take that and just be like, Well, see, look at how violent and evil and barbaric their God is, because this is what he's commanding them to do. Um, and it's a it's a fairly common talking point. Um, and it is uh admittedly very morally uncomfortable verse because it's talking about like, I wish someone would take your kids and right, but like, oh, how much do I get into it? So interestingly, um I on TikTok there's a content creator, like a PhD can either PhD candidate or already has her PhD. I can't remember. No, she has her PhD, Dr. Divine. I don't know her full name, but she goes by Dr. Divine. Her handle on TikTok is the Bible scholar, I'm pretty sure, or something something along those lines. And she was doing a um reflection by by the way, it's still February during the time we were recording this, so it's still Black History Month. Happy Black History Month, everyone. But she's doing a whole series um throughout the month of February, which is saying, like, okay, we're going to read scriptures through a black history lens. And she points out this particular scripture where she's like, Okay, what's the occasion for this? The psalm is set, it opens with like by the river rivers of Babylon. We hung up our harps and we wept when we remembered Zion, and they asked us to sing songs from our homeland. How can we sing the song of the Lord in a foreign land? So the context of this song is that the person says, like, what we're actually doing is we're sitting by the river and crying because we've been kidnapped from our homeland. We've been forcibly taken. We watched them destroy our cities, we watched them kill our people, we watched them, you know, break down our temple and tear down the walls of the city and our homes and stuff, and then they dragged us out to a completely foreign place. And now they're like, Oh, come on, sing us one of your songs from where you're from. And we're like, how can how can we do that given what you just did to us? Um, and so this content creator, this Bible scholar, was like, okay, think about that through the lens of black history for a second. Can you understand why someone would feel a feeling of that much anger when it comes down to like you stole us from our home country and forcibly brought us somewhere else, and now you want us to perform for your entertainment? Like, I wish, yeah, I do wish someone else would do bad things to you so that you could experience what you did to us. And obviously, there's ethics within like Jesus' teachings that would say, like, okay, yes, we we believe in forgiveness and we believe in like non-retaliation and things like that. But this is one of those spots where it also acknowledges, like, but the pain of like going through that kind of oppression is actually that bad, right? Like, it can drive you to a very, very dark place where you find yourself wanting to say almost unspeakable things because, like, look what you did to us, right? And it's not, it's not as though this is some mysterious thing that is completely foreign to history. And I think it's a little um like on the one hand, I understand it because people are used to Christians violently ripping. Texts out of context to prove their own point, anyways, and just being like, Well, anything that's written in the Bible is God's direct speech and is telling you to do it. Well, no, that's not literarily speaking, like this is not a command from God. This is a person complaining about their circumstances in a poem, right? This is not God saying, you have to go kill kids. This is a person saying, like, you killed my kids and kidnapped me. I wish something bad would happen to you, right? So it's and it in a poem, right? So they're they're currently not killing people, they're writing poetry while crying by a river. And and I think it's one of those things where maybe Christians don't deserve the kind of grace that we're asking for in terms of interpretation because we've not been quick to extend that to others ourselves and we've been quick to misuse the Bible and stuff. So I get that I get the complaints there. I just think that like, and again, I'm assuming that that might be the verse that this person has in mind. Right. There's plenty of other ethical issues throughout the rest of the Bible. But again, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, consider this within the broad sweep of human experience. Like if we want to talk about being empathetic, like, let's think about like what what would drive someone to write something that intense, right? Right. And the answer is uh kidnapping genocidal maniacs doing imperialism. Um and look at that. It's a contemporary issue. Imagine.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

Look at that. It's almost like the Bible applies to today. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:30

It's like humanity has patterns and cycles that we keep repeating or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:35

Yeah. Well, even if the person didn't mean to allude to that Bible verse, well, hey, free Bible lesson for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:43

Free little Bible study.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

Courtesy of Max. I like that though. I learned, definitely learned a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:48

We learned something. I'm glad I can be that source

"Follow these steps to become atheist!"

SPEAKER_04 1:07:51

of something useful.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:55

Well, we can go to the that person's part two comment. Yeah. Longer, yeah, longer comment. But also, yes, organized into steps. Yeah. They said, and again, uh oh, I didn't even read their username last time, but it's down N E N out 8705. Okay. So the second comment from them says, How to evolve into even better people. Step one, drop the appalling epistemology of Hebrews 11 verse 1, faith, 11 verse 1 faith, and embrace skepticism, critical thinking, and methodological naturalism. Step two, strive to believe as many true and as as few false things as possible. Great. Um, easy. Um step three, recognize your indoctrination. Step four, drop your theological presuppositions. Step five, read the Bible with an open mind. Step six, always be prepared to accept an uncomfortable truth over a comfortable lie. Step seven, stop singing songs in praise of a God that, amongst many other horrors, slaughters babies. There you go, the babies again. Um step eight, build a community around something real, like knitting, and that's the end of the steps. And then he this person says, I am as confident as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow, that anyone who follows these steps will at the end identify as an atheist.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:29

Now, I do I do think um identifying at the end of those steps as an atheist is an interesting thing to say when when step one begins with adopt methodological naturalism. Um so when step um methodological naturalism, kind of just the the working assumption that like there must be a naturalistic explanation for things. So we we bracket out supernatural explanations for anything out of hand. Um so yeah, methodological naturalism. I mean, it's it's a you know a key part of the scientific method. Um we we don't we don't say a ghost did it or a wizard did it, you know what I mean? But it's just funny because like, okay, so embrace skepticism, critical thinking, and methodological naturalism that so bracket out the supernatural is introduced in step one, and then in step four, in case that wasn't enough, drop your theological presuppositions. So I feel like we end up as atheists very early on in the process, not not at the end of the process.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

Um I particularly loved step two. Strive to believe as many true and as few false things as possible. Because of course you can know what's true and you can know what's false as a human.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:56

Well, the thing is, I'm inclined to agree it with this step two actually. Yeah, like yeah. Yeah. But and they've put it as structural, so try.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:06

Okay, no guarantee.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:08

Try to believe as much true as you can and as much false, as little false as possible. I think that's uh I I like that actually. I think that there's there's some value there. Um, and I I'm of the opinion that like you can know at least certain truths, like there's there's some truths that are knowable. Um, but I think you rightly point out that like there's a certain scope outside of which it becomes very hard to know for sure. Um, and that's where I do think faith actually does play a role in epistemology. Um, I don't think I I think it's funny that they appealed to the concept of epistemology here because I don't think Hebrews 11:1 offers an epistemology at all. Kind of similar to what you and I talked about in the last time that we recorded, because again, release order, but the last time we recorded just you and I together, we talked about what actually is faith and is it like a source of knowledge? Is the Bible defining faith as like this is the only way for you to know things, or is it more of a virtue? Is it more of a relational virtue? And I think we kind of had landed on thinking of it more as a virtue that is applied in like how you relate to another person in terms of faithfulness and things like that. Um so I don't think there's an epistemology really being offered in Hebrews.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:29

Remind the class and me what a pistom epistemology means.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:33

Epistemology is the branch of philosophy that studies knowledge and the nature of knowledge. So what counts as knowledge? What is truth? What are the criteria that you would use to determine truth or to test for truth? Things like that. Um, how how would you apply logic if logic is applicable to knowing truth? Or does knowledge come through a more kind of passive non-analytical process that's more related to your sense of like things things like that, epistemology. It's like what is knowledge?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:14

Um yeah. Yeah. So I thought this was interesting. Uh, I don't know that I think that these steps are really in order. Um, and I think there are assumptions being made here about like, oh, read the Bible with an open mind. Well, I feel like I already do that. I've changed my theological presuppositions and I've changed my theology numerous times. I do recognize my indoctrination, which is why I don't believe certain things that I was raised with anymore, and the reasons why I hold on to other things are different reasons than maybe they used to be. So I I think this person may have adopted a particular version of I would assume the new atheism. I I feel like I detect new atheist talking points bubbling beneath the surface here, which is fine. That is certainly a perspective you can have. Um, I would encourage this person to interact with content from one of my favorite atheists, which is, of course, Alex O'Connor, who I think famously has talked about how, yeah, you know, everyone's favorite internet atheist. I feel like he had a great journey from like the the intensity of the new atheism to something that I think is more um grounded and uh a bit more um curious now. And I'm not one of those people who's just like there's a lot of people who do this weird prophesy thing. They're like, oh, Alex O'Connor, he's just on the verge of becoming he's gonna find Jesus any day. Like whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:47

He's so close.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:50

No, I'm not gonna do that. But I do think I think that what he represents is uh at a very basic level, like a healthy amount of critical thinking that is also, you know, thoughtful and compassionate and empathetic to other people's beliefs. Like I think there's a lot of value in that. And I certainly find myself regularly learning a lot from him. So, you know, we can learn from each other's doubts. I'm not I'm not gonna embrace full-on skepticism, but I do to this person, I do choose to use other people's skepticism as an opportunity for me to learn new things. And to the point, number seven, step number seven, stop singing the songs of a god that, amongst other horrors, is a baby killer. It's like I I recognize that it's important for anyone who has a theology to construe their theology in a way that does not make God a moral monster. And yes, that does affect how you relate to scripture. We could probably do a whole talk on that on its own. Um but you know, at some point, I don't know. It's a this person was willing to share a lot of intense emotions with us, so I do want to acknowledge the vulnerability it took to share those thoughts. And I I I know I joke around a lot, uh, but I'm not trying to mock anyone by by bringing this up. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:06

And that was something I was just thinking about too as you were talking. Like, I don't know if you know, we've approached this video as being kind of a silly video because comments can be silly, obviously. Um, so if I don't know what tone of voice I read these comments in, but if it sounded like I was also making fun of them or or in any way like um what's the word, dismissing any of these thoughts, I apologize if it can come that way at all to that person.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:34

You are also our resident skeptic at this point. You know what I mean? Like you so I I think you're not coming at this. You're you are certainly not the like uh Bible thumping fundamentalist, you know, like you're you're very much in a journey that honestly I think this person would approve of. Um again, I think this comment was probably directed at whoever in the group that was perceived as being more unambiguously Christian, but right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:05

We yeah, we welcome all comments as long as they're respectful, obviously, of us and everybody that's in our videos. And yeah, respectful to everybody, but like um, yeah, we appreciate the vulnerability and genuine questions of people in our comment section.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:21

So yeah, yeah. W and which is to say, like, please, like skeptical comments are absolutely welcome. Just lay off the infanticide remarks.

"Christianity has nothing to do with culture"

SPEAKER_04 1:17:30

Like it's it's a lot. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:33

All right. Well, we got one more on our list. Um, and this one is kind of a polar opposite. A short, so I assume it's on YouTube, a YouTube short.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:45

It's a YouTube short, but it's it's from the same longer when beliefs change video.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

Yeah, it was a clip of Adwa um talking about exploring her ancestral heritage, which she has Ghanaian roots. She lives in Australia, but also has Ghanaian roots. All right, this person. Oh man. Max.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:11

Do you know of any names that I couldn't even Angeline Ennis?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:16

And Johnis.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:22

Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:24

We gave it our best shot. 881 said because the world is cursed with something called sin that leads to eternal death. This is sounding familiar. Um, Christianity and salvation has nothing to do with culture. Our culture is flawed and primed to sinful nature. It's not subjective. There is an objective truth. Christianity, you can't idolize your cultural heritage. Why does your cultural heritage need to be reflected when talking about spiritual salvation? Crying face emoji.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:00

Crying face emoji. So we've gone to the very polar opposite end from the last commenter. We've now got the uh very stringent, doctrinally correct Christian coming into correct uh Ajua saying that she was interested in learning about traditional Akan spirituality. I think it's interesting because all she's saying is that she was interested in learning more about it and studying it, which is like, okay, that's fine. And she had specifically asked, like, why is it framed in Christianity as if like my salvation has to come from someone who's from a completely different cultural background? Like, what does that have to, what does Jesus as a historical person have to do with my group of people and like our way of life and our understanding of the afterlife? So, like, that's a fairly legitimate question, actually. Like, what does this what does this have to do with me? And why, why would I assume that a religion started somewhere else is able to speak to the same worldview questions or even knows what's going on over here? Why, why do we think it has a universal scope? Even if you are a Christian, you should actually, I think, take the time to consider, like, oh, right, what is it that makes me think that this has a universal scope? Because there's a difference between like considering that and just assuming it. Because if you just assume it, then you're gonna not understand why other people are asking the question, right? Whereas if you're trying to actually seriously interact with other people and have these kinds of conversations, you need to be able to like not just assume your position, but like demonstrate that your position can be arrived at, which I don't think comments like this just say, well, these are just assertions. There is no argument here, right? And I'm not if it's because like I still believe in the Bible, and I I don't know that I bel uh agree with exactly how everything is like worded in this, but I do believe there's such a thing as sin. I do believe there's such a thing as salvation, I do believe there's such a thing as objective truth, but like I'm not gonna approach this question this way because I think it actually takes away from an opportunity that I would have to refine how I articulate my faith and say, like, oh, there's an area here where I could actually flesh out how my faith tradition addresses a particular challenge, right? In this case, the challenge of like, how how does a Christian account for the universality of the claims that the Christian faith makes, right? And this this just doesn't engage with that at all. Um so yeah, and and and I think another big point that I would point out is that culture is actually like one of the most important discussions in the New Testament. Like every single time that it becomes about uh Jewish and Gentile people in the same church congregations, or every time the circumcision debate pops up in a in one of Paul's letters, or anytime like the the this thing keeps happening in the book of Acts where it's like, oh, do we baptize these Gentiles who just converted? What do they have to do? What commandments do they have to keep? Let's have a Jerusalem council about it. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's actually it actually is very relevant um even within the Bible, saying, like, oh, how do we relate this like tribal closed practice religion that was Israelite religion? How do we relate it to the rest of the world if they are taking an interest in this? Like it's not actually a straightforward, easy answer. So I would I would invite this person to think just a little bit deeper. Not even, not it, don't even change your mind. I'm not even telling you to change your mind. You could. I think there's room that you could change your mind. But at very least, consider if someone else has a question about Christianity, is that a challenge to what you believe, or is that an opportunity to refine what you believe and maybe even see how it might be able to account for those objections.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:07

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:08

Um, rather than feeling it as a threat.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:11

Yeah, that's important, I think, because I think if you do see objections or questions as threats, it's really easy to either just remain in your little bubble your whole life, or the moment you start listening to those, you know, like just go complete 180 because your your faith has been challenged where it never has before, and then it all comes crashing down. Not that that happens all the time, but it obviously can. Right. Um I I think also, and obviously I don't know where this person is from, um, or anything like that, but just speaking personally, I think it's really easy as like a person who grew up in the Western package of Christianity, it's easy to have this blinder to the fact that so much of your Christian practice is influenced by culture already. Like that's culture. Um, and a lot of the the truths or things that are proposed uh put put forward as truths or standards, like a lot of them are cultural. And um we just don't see that because us American or Western Christians, like that's just what we're surrounded by. Um or anybody, yeah. You're you're blinded by your own culture, right? Yeah. Or wait, when you said or anyone, what you're doing.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:32

Yeah, like like like anyone who is in a culture, like innately, when you are inhabiting your own culture, it's easy to take it for granted and its assumptions for granted. Like this is a good thing. It's like, oh, that's just how the world is, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:47

Yeah, so yeah. It's really eye-opening when you realize, oh yeah, that's not that's not how it is across the board. This is a big planet, there's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:54

Which is also, I think, what Aja was wrestling with in her initial question, right? She's being like, oh, well, how do I line things up, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:01

So this is actually kind of uh um relevant for me because in the house church I go to this past Saturday, somehow the conversation got to the point where I asked this question or this question of like culture, and I talked about Ajua. Um, and I was like, Yeah, there's like this girl that's in my passion fruit group that like has brought up this point of why um why does this like Jesus that is packaged in all this Western Christianity have to be the one that saves me? Like this very Jesus that is portrayed as this very cultural Western version of Jesus. Um and I think something that they somebody else responded to in house church was like you know, the core of Christianity is the story of Jesus, right? And like this this story goes across cultural lines. That story can resonate with every person, no matter what culture you're part of. The things that go around it might be different per culture, but the heart of it is it crosses cultural lines. And then another thing that you've said before, and they also said at House Church was um you know, talking about missions and going into other countries instead of thinking that you're bringing Jesus to these people, look for the places that God is already active in that culture in their cultural context, instead of thinking that you have to bring the whole package of Jesus and Western Christianity to them.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:39

Right. God is already there, and you like half of half of the task is recognizing like, oh, where where has God already been doing something here? Right. Um But I I mean, again, this is people get handed a particular package of ideas. Yeah. Um, and I I you know I don't begrudge anyone for being maybe in a spot in their faith where things are a bit simplistic. Um people often mean well when they're like, well, I'm trying to explain to you why you need this. I'm like, I know you're trying to help someone find the Lord, and that's great, but like please consider the possibility that like the Lord is actually helping them do some more uh granular, detail-oriented, like question figuring out, finding already, and they're like they're not waiting for you to drop a truth bomb on them per se, right? Like this, there might be something a bit deeper already happening here. So that's my thought on that. And again, uh like I Aja was not able to join us, hence us even uh doing this format in the first place. But I don't I don't know what she would say to this or if she would even want to engage with this necessarily per se, because it is just someone kind of ranting. add uh an out of context short clip so I but I I think there's a lot of room for us to offer different ways of thinking about this. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:12

Faith outside of the box.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:14

Faith outside the box. Honestly, what really needs to be done is just subscribe to Passion Fruit. Follow the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel, because then you'll hear us talk about these questions all the time. And then you'll be good at asking these kinds of questions in ways that are not confrontational

Leave more comments for us to respond to!

SPEAKER_04 1:28:33

because we're doing it with you always forever. Well I think that that was fun. I I've been wanting to do one of these like you know answer the the comments type of thing for a while. Maybe maybe in the future we'll do one of these again with like everybody. Hopefully by the time of the the group trip this year we have enough new comments on things that we can uh um you know do this again with everyone in person. I think we could just start provoking our audience not provoking prompting prompting our audience to to to ask us questions or the craziest hot takes video. That's it we just gotta keep prompting them for hot takes and we can respond to their give us content.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:18

Yes feed the content machine yeah because that's what we do on social media. That's that's it we're here to create invention of humanity social media.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:28

The greatest invention in in human history since nuclear deterrence well I had fun with this Darcy. Me too yeah and I hope all of you who are listening to this at home had fun with this as well maybe have seen a bit more of our personalities in this one than maybe comes across in some of our oh no we show our personalities off yeah what am I saying? What am I talking about? Anyways well uh thank you for tuning in make sure you are subscribed do leave us a comment and a hot take uh whether you are on you know whatever platform you're looking listening to or if you're on YouTube uh we clearly you can see that we will see your comments and and respond to them and if you make it adequately crazy I will feel almost just compulsively urged to use it in the next one. So there's your chance it's a threat the lovingist threat uh that can be issued well we'll see y'all in the next one yes bye guys see y'all see ya wouldn't want to be ya oh wow thank you so much for tuning in to the Passion Fruit podcast we look forward to chatting with you in the next one and until then let's keep growing together