The Resilience Project

Becoming Sovereign After Survival: Nervous Systems, Identity & Healing with Kelly Brock

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:06:24

Summary

In this deeply personal conversation, Julie Brumley sits down with mentor, coach, and friend Kelly Brock, the woman whose podcast sparked the beginning of Julie’s adoption-focused work back in April 2023.

Together, they explore how survival patterns become identities, why the nervous system shapes what we expect from relationships, and how old associations recreate familiar patterns. 

Kelly shares her perspective on sovereignty, nervous system healing, and learning to stop building a life around adaptation and performance. Julie weaves in her lived experience as an adoptee, including how early disruption shaped her expectations around connection and safety.

This episode is about more than adoption.

It’s about learning to come home to yourself.

About realizing the patterns that once helped you survive don’t have to keep leading your life.

And about discovering that healing happens through awareness, safety, practice, and relationship.

Keywords

adoption, adoptee healing, nervous system, sovereignty, trauma healing, somatic healing, identity, attachment, survival patterns, relationships, embodiment, emotional healing

Key Topics

  • How survival patterns become identity
  • The nervous system’s role in relationships and emotional anticipation
  • “What we associate becomes what we anticipate”
  • Why adoptees often adapt instead of receive
  • The connection between sovereignty and self-belonging
  • How old emotional meanings create repeated patterns
  • The importance of nervous system work in healing 
  • Learning to separate patterns from personality
  • Reframing painful experiences into gifts and wisdom
  • Building movements vs. building businesses

Chapters

00:00 – The moment Julie’s business vision was born
03:30 – Survival patterns and identity
08:00 – What sovereignty actually means
15:00 – How early experiences shape expectations
19:00 – Associations, anticipation, and emotional loops
28:00 – Changing patterns through nervous system work
35:00 – The conditions for self-belonging
41:00 – Building from truth instead of performance
47:00 – Movement vs. business
52:00 – Why the body matters in healing
57:00 – What Kelly has learned about adoptees
01:02:00 – Breaking old stories and reclaiming your life
01:06:00 – Kelly’s Rooted program + final reflections

Links

Website

Instagram: @juliebrumley_

Facebook: julierasbrum

TikTok: @juliebrumley_

Click to Join My Free Adoptee Facebook Group

You Tube: @julie_brumley

SPEAKER_02

Hi y'all, I'm Julie. I'm a trauma-informed adoptee coach and somatic healing guide. After overcoming deep abandonment wounds, I now help adult adoptees move from feeling lost and disconnected to experiencing profound self-belonging. I know what it is like to carry the weight of abandonment, to feel stuck in patterns of longing, adapting, and searching for belonging. To have tried every healing modality available and come up empty. My own healing has taught me this. The answers aren't out there. They're buried within me. And I'm here to guide you home to yourself. The Resilience Project podcast brings voice, visibility, and validation to the parts of adoption society rarely names, but all of us feel. Through an trauma-informed somatic lens, I explore the lived experiences of the entire adoption constellation with a tender emphasis on the adoptee experience. This podcast goes beyond storytelling into soul telling. It offers embodied insight, compassionate education, and a path towards awareness, hope, and strength. Each episode invites listeners to understand adoption more deeply, not just with the mind, but with the nervous system. And to reconnect with the truth, identity, and belonging that were always yours to come home to. Welcome. Oh, welcome back, everybody. This is a breath of fresh air for me to be with one of my favorite people. She has become a friend. She is a mentor. She's a coach. So this episode is really special to me. And actually, a lot of my audience has heard me mention her name a few times. So this is Kelly Brock, who's going to be with us. But before Kelly was actually my mentor, she was in my ear in her podcast. It's what I first started listening to. And she is honestly somebody who has helped shape the work that I do now. She was in my earbuds, like I said, April 12th, 2023, the day that will live an infamy in my life, where it was a morning that completely changed me. I was doing yoga, I was listening to her podcast, and out of nowhere I heard clearly this phrase you need to stop working with addiction, which is what I was doing at the time, and start working with adoption. And obviously, I turned her off, sat up, and was like, what is happening? What did I just hear? I'm not sure what that means, but I'll tell you this: it felt loud, it was undeniable, and it was like God had just interrupted my entire life. That's what it felt like. And at that point, I didn't even know Kelly personally. I had heard of her. And a month later, I actually signed up to do her program called Essence. And the wild thing is about this whole thing is that is also the year that she began to tear down her own business for the second time. So much of what you hear in my work now, honestly, the language around meaning, around association, around nervous systems, identity, even sovereignty. It's not a word that I use very often, but creating from truth, from authenticity instead of survival, was shaped in her presence in so many ways. Not because Kelly told me who to become. That's huge, you guys. And that's what today's conversation is really about. How early experiences shape what we expect from life, how survival patterns become identities. They don't have to, but they do. How people unknowingly recreate familiar emotional experiences and what it looks like to finally become sovereign enough to choose something different. Kelly isn't adopted, everybody. News flash, but she deeply understands the nervous system, adaptation, and what happens when people build lives around survival instead of safety. And honestly, I think this conversation is going to help a lot of people feel seen, not just adoptees, but those who love them and anyone who has ever felt stuck in an old version of themselves. So let's get into it. So glad that you are with us. Welcome to the podcast, Kelly. What do you have to say?

SPEAKER_01

I'm so happy to be here. I mean, truly, I remember when I got to know you and you being like, I think I'm supposed to work with adoptees. I'm an adoptee. And this actually has been a huge thing I never recognized was shaping my entire identity. I got to be a part of your epiphany. Oh, even beyond the relationships or the addiction patterns of my partner, all of a sudden it was like, whoa, this is the root cause. And so I got to watch you and be beside you and see how this was the founding fundamental thing that had shaped how you had seen yourself your entire life. So I I've been a fan of the work the entire time and really believe, man, you have been on to so much healing that I believe is for the planet beyond adoptees too. So I'm so happy to be here to talk to your community today. Hopefully, I can leave a deposit that just helps them feel more at home with themselves, understand themselves, understand how to take their power back. That's that's my goal. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I believe that you can because every experience I've ever had with you, I feel that. So I know it's possible. Hearing what you just heard, I know the first time you heard it was actually last week when we recorded for your podcast, but knowing that that was the birth of my business, actually while listening to your podcast, what comes up for you?

SPEAKER_01

It makes me happy. It makes me happy. You know, one of the things that I see was happening in you was you actually were starting to already come out of survival mode. And when you get out of survival mode, you can actually start to hear the bigger calling on your life, which I think is interesting, that you just happen to be listening to my podcast that maybe stimulated a new thought in you. But one of the things, even I've heard you talk about and the healing that happens with adoptees is when they start to lower the survival um strength, the survival identity that they've been naturally functioning and they think it's normal, they think it's who they are. All of a sudden, when you start really getting in touch with who you actually are, you start to hear more guidance. You get intuitive ideas, you become become more inspired. And that was what was happening for you in that moment, which I think is just so powerful. And that's the kind of possibility that's available for the people you talk to, is you don't just have to live an existence that's like, can I just have a little bit? Can I just have enough? Can I have a good partner? Can I just like myself? Julie didn't even expect. I'd like to run my own business one day. And actually, I think I'd like to have a podcast platform to start healing people globally. Beyond this, I think I'm gonna do advocacy work. Y'all, she had no idea what she was opening up to. But when she started doing your healing, the bigger thing that wanted to come through her was accessible. But she was never a match for that before because she wasn't open and available. Her, I mean, if you even think of like a body in survival, it's contracted. It's like arounded, it's guarded, it's like nothing can come in. I won't let you in because I'm protected. Well, the more safe you felt with yourself, which you'd already been doing that work. So when you tell me that moment, it tells me about what state you were already in to receive that in that moment. And I just feel blessed that I got to be a part of the next evolution of you starting to listen deeper, stepping into your own power in that season, believing you were worth it, believing you were enough. I remember you being like, I'm not a pro at this. I'm not, I didn't get a degree in, you know, adopt you like, yeah. I'm like, you're a queen. So so for me, even in anyone listening to this, you guys, Julie is absolutely brilliant. She is changing lives on here. But even at the moment that this began, she didn't feel like she was enough, but she started to follow the call. And it's changing people's lives. So that that's what shows up for me when you even share that. Oh, I'm so happy I got to be a part of that God moment for you. You definitely were. You were the instigator, darn you. Hey, I love it.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. I plan to continue to be.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I appreciate that. It's interesting that you talk about survival because I want to try and make a bit of a connection with one of the main things that you really are focusing on right now, which is sovereignty. So many of us as adopted people, and honestly, you know this from our conversations, many people, not just adopted people, but many people learn to survive by adapting, performing, controlling, pleasing, all those things that you and I work with when we work with people. So, how do you define sovereignty in contrast to survival? What does that look like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm sure you've already talked on your podcast at nauseum about survival, but essentially, for anybody if you're tapping in today for the first time, yeah. You came out of the womb, and in those first seven years, especially of your life, you were in program mode. You were without language, you were learning based on what you saw. Who do I need to be in order to be loved, to belong, and to be safe? And so we learn as children, because we were dependent, by the way, we were. We we did need someone to take care of us. We learned to constantly look outside of ourselves to say, how do I need to show up? So it's all comfortable here. How do I need to show up? So they love me. How do I need to show up so I'm safe? So very naturally, all of us learned this habitual posture of looking outside of ourselves for answers. Well, we grow up and we become adults, and we still have these same immature ways of relating to people when we've left that house. We're not being parented by those parents the same way. We have our own jobs, we have our own children, we have our own things, and yet we have patterns that have been have become our personality. And we've still are going, wait, I make my own money, I make my own decisions, I know I have my own choices, yet I'm still looking outside of myself in all these different ways on how should I live my life? And it until we pause and get conscious of that and really realize, hold on, wait, wait, wait. I'm the boss of me. Why, why am I thinking about what my mom and dad are going to think about my decision? Why am I thinking about if my partner will like if I want to eat this meal? Why am I worried about if I'm successful and what the world thinks if it's not making me happy? So we first have to become conscious and realize we all have an orientation to looking outside of ourselves because of how we grew up. So you're not, you're not broken. Join the humanity collective. We've all done it, but we will never love our lives, feel that inner sense of peace and sustainability, that sense of pride, that sense of feeling at home and belonging to ourselves until we learn how to pull back all of our power from all the different dynamics and places that we learned to orient ourselves out. We started looking outwards. So sovereignty is saying, wait, I am the, I am in charge of my life and I will take back all my power within myself to make choices that are most aligned with who I really am. And so it means you have full agency. It means I'm taking back my power wherever I have power accessible. I will make choices based on what's right for me, not anyone else. And this is not a I don't care about my husband, and this is I don't care about my parents, and this is I don't care about the world. Absolutely not. But we get this misunderstanding that if I do what's right for me, it will hurt other people. We have this big fear that if we think it's selfish to be sovereign, to think of ourselves first. We think this is the most self-centered thing I could ever do. But what we don't realize is when we choose things for ourselves, it actually frees up other people to do the exact same. It's like, hey, here's one little moment, Julie. I am a recovering people pleaser. I have four decades suffered from IBS symptoms and upset tummies and all these things. I have I have sensitivity to food. Well, my husband would look at me and be like, where do you want to eat? Well, guess what a people pleaser does? It doesn't matter. Wherever you want to eat. And he's like, No, for real, where do you want to eat? He really did want to please me. And I'm like, it doesn't matter. He's like, Cool, let's go to the China buffet. And I'm like, oh God, oh no. And so we go to the China buffet, and guess who is in pain because she didn't speak up for herself. And then guess what happens? I go home and I'm a little bitchy wife because I'm upset and I'm taking it out on him. But he's like, You're the one who said we could go there. Why didn't you speak up? Anybody else? Does this sound familiar where it's like had the opportunity to speak up and say what you wanted, but you didn't? Such a small example. But when I start saying what I really want, which is I'd love to go somewhere where I can get a nice salad, some grilled chicken, maybe a little sweet potato on the side. And he goes, Great, here's two options. We pick from it, I'm happy. Guess what he gets to go home with? A happy wife. He doesn't have to listen to me all night. So that's such a small example, Julie. But I just want to show we think it's selfish to think of ourselves. But in all the moments where we're really taking care of ourselves, it is a benefit to other people in our lives. So I'm interested in sovereignty, which is helping people find all the ways they've lost their power and pulling it back into home, making decisions based on who you authentically are and feeling safe doing that, by the way.

SPEAKER_02

What you just described makes me think of the language that I would use for my population is that our entire identity has been built around adapting to another's.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Which is what you just described. Your identity was, well, if he wants to go somewhere, I'll go wherever he goes and I'll figure out a way to adapt and then be in pain because of it. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Right. So, and that sadly from early experiences, like you talked about, for us adopted people, definitely can relate to that. But how do those early experiences shape the nervous system and what it expects from life and relationships when you are in those kinds of early experiences that you described, whatever they are? For me, which you know a little bit of my story. Well, I think you know all of my story, but that part of being attempted to be aborted twice and then changing hands three times in the first seven weeks of my life before I was even adopted by the person that was honestly safe for me, but didn't feel safe because of those early seven weeks of my life. So the question is, how? How does that shape in your understanding what we expect from life and relationships?

SPEAKER_01

Well, we feel comfortable. And I, if you could see me on camera, I'm doing air quotes, meaning we feel comfortable with the things that have been been familiar to us. So although logically, I might not say, oh, I really love an emotionally unavailable parent or an emotionally unavailable, right? I but who wants that? I actually feel very familiar with what it's like to be near a man who doesn't want to be with his big feelings. Because guess what was witnessed in my house growing up, right? A father who could not be with his big feelings. And so, same with adoptees. You have experienced something that even though it's like that saying, right? That you're in a familiar, you'd rather be in a familiar hell than an unfamiliar heaven because your nervous system is this beautiful sensing system that started pre-birth. It was already taking in information. And then you were born. And guess what? That little precious born baby does not have language, doesn't know the language of the words the parents are saying. But what it does have is all those sensory information coming in. That was the nervous system. So it was going uncomfortable, comfortable, uncomfortable, comfortable, uncomfortable, comfortable, going, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, over and over again, saying what feels okay and what feels not okay. So we learn as children, since from that survival state, that I at least know how to navigate life, even if it's an uncomfortable pattern, even if it's something that's not healthy, we at least know what happens there. I remember reading a book. I actually recommended it to you. I recommend it to anyone, period, man or woman. It's called the dance of anger.

SPEAKER_02

Reading it still first.

SPEAKER_01

So good. So good. And what it talked about was that when you're in a relationship with people, you're in a dance with them and you both know, let's just pretend you know how to tango. You guys tango. I step back, you step in, you step forward, I step back. And we do a little dance together. And the minute that someone goes to change their life and steps out of the tango, the other person kicks them back in. They will do anything to say, come back into this dance, even though it's not working for us, it's not great, it's not super healthy, it's not our best. But I'd rather you be here because I don't know who we are. I don't know who I am. I don't know what happens if you change. And I bet for a lot of adoptees, when you go to begin doing healing work, it can you feel this not only within yourself, but your friends and family can feel this when you're changing. It's what are you talking about? And who are you becoming? And so those early, early programming becomes our expectations of the future, our reality. Something I talk about a lot, which is our associations with things. We have begun to link. Oh, relationships equal turmoil. I've linked them together. Okay, love means sacrifice. I've linked them together. So all of a sudden, anytime I go for love, I've I'm already premeditating. I'm already setting up the future that this is going to be an emotionally taxing experience because I've connected those things. So until we learn to untether, until we learn to really like unlink those things, we keep repeating the patterns.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, very, very true. What's making me laugh right now is that one of the main things I was gonna ask you about in this was associations, because that was one of the things that you really have taught me is learning how to change the we assign meaning because of the associations that we make. So I love that you brought that up because you talk about it so beautifully and how we associate with what we associate with becomes what we anticipate, is what I remember in the language that you use. So can you explain that a little bit more? I think you did, but I would love to hear a little bit more in depth about that, and then I'll ask you even more questions about it because I'm fascinated by it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So when we associate, all that means is you're rehearsing in advance a connection between something. So if I associate, again, love equals sacrifice because that's what I've experienced. Well, guess what I'm doing? I'm beginning to already anticipate it. Right. And if you're anticipating something, think about this for a moment. Like, okay, if I'm anticipating that love, say you want to have a new relationship. You're like, okay, I'm finally gonna go date again. I want to find a good man, I want to find a good woman, right? But your past association is love equals pain, love equals sacrifice, love equals hurt. What happens is you start already, your body does this before your mind even knows it's happening. You start anticipating, rehearsing thoughts and feelings around it that haven't even happened. And guess what you do? You go ahead and project it onto that new relationship, this fresh man, this fresh woman who is a blank canvas of opportunity here. You're already, what did that mean? What is what is happening here? Are they already trying to jump over my boundaries? This was the, I'm not letting anybody do it. This time, whoa, this person is just talking to you. But what did you do? You started, when you anticipate, you start projecting those former old emotions, feelings, thoughts on a very new front. How do I want to say it? It's it's a blank slate. And yet you're projecting your past pain onto a new moment. So the way that I think about it is when we have rehearsed and we, when we don't let go of the baggage of the past, the past associations, we don't, when we don't change the meaning of what has happened to us, we carry that with us into every fresh moment. So I'm now in a brand new opportunity, a new relationship, or a new moment with a parent, or a new moment with your children, or a new moment. It with yourself, but you brought all the baggage from yesterday into today. Well, what did you do? You weighed it down. It's not, it's not available to be a new thing. We've already brought into our new life, we are creating a worst case scenario in a very fresh, available new moment. We are recreating the past over and over again. Right. This is why we create a loop of what we associate, we anticipate. And when we anticipate it, we start rehearsing it before it even happens. We start determining what's going to happen to us. This is called self-fulfilling prophecies. We're like, why does this keep happening to me? Right. It's because we have associated it. Now, let me give you one little example. I associated, I want you to imagine association means you linked. If you could think of two links that are close, like chains, thank you. An association is two chains that you put together. I'm someone who has had burnout twice in business. And so my body has a memory of every time you succeed, Kelly, big time succeed, start to really get up there. There's a burnout. I have in my body linked big success equals burnout. They are linked together. They are associated. Well, that's gonna be a problem if I ever want to be successful, right? Because now every time I'm going to be successful, my body's like, please don't go. We're gonna just start to fatigue you. We're gonna start to remind you of these past feelings. We're gonna make you afraid of doing anything big. Do you see what's happening? I'm not the same person I was in the past. I've changed, but I forgot to change the meaning. So, what we often have to do, there's a couple things that we can do to change associations. And I'm curious how you even teach on this too, because the first thing is we just have to become aware we've told a story about what has happened. Old story. We've told a story. There's an old story, exactly. And we have to really look at that story and we have to say, number one, we have to admit we told a story from a certain vantage point. Now, the second thing is we can change the story. We can change the meaning that we attach to it. So I've now burned out twice. It would be easy for me to tell the story of every time I go to succeed, and anyone who succeeds is going to burn out. Or I could say, whoa, wait, wait, let me look back and let me see. Oh my gosh, my body was telling me, was giving me signs this whole time. What would happen if I go to succeed again? And this time I listen to my body? What if I pay attention on the way to the top? What if I slow down enough? I I gather the wisdom from that experience and I become better because of it, right? What if this time success gets to mean sustainability? Right. I'm telling a new story around it, which can change the energy around it. Now, the second way you can change an association is put yourself in a new situation with that thing. Change your environment. So a lot of times we go to change that thing and we do the same exact things we used to do. So, for example, let's just say you tried to lose weight one time and Weight Watchers worked for you once. And you keep going back to Weight Watchers over and over and you're like, dang it, it never works. I keep getting stuck over and over. Don't do Weight Watchers again. Go to a boot camp class or hire a trainer. Go into an environment where your body doesn't remember a story. Because what that allows you to do, a new environment, puts you in a place where your nervous system doesn't have a story to tell about it. Yeah. So I'm curious, Julie, I want to stop there for a second. What would be some examples that are showing up in your head around your adopte-e community and how they can change an association?

SPEAKER_02

Well, what's hilarious? This is the reason why synchronicities are not surprising to me. I literally just did an episode on this last week. No. Yes. Yeah. Oh, I love it. Actually, I'm sorry, it was two weeks ago because my but I but I did. And then I just taught about it in one of my containers yesterday. Um, and honestly, what I did was I linked it your law of vulnerability, law of attraction, law of assumption. There are connections that you can make with that that are really fascinating. But what I do for my community, there's an this, there's a quicker way to do it than actually changing your environment. But I love that because I think that's really good. Yeah. But you literally put your body in the new environment. You envision yourself being there. You know this. And then you actually allow your body to notice the different percentage shift in your own frequency, if you will, if we use your terminology. So the shame switches now to peace, calm, because now I'm letting my body know that meaning doesn't apply anymore. It's something that is so valid for us because everything that we do starts from that for me, from those seven weeks of my life. And I never even understood that. I literally was talking to my ex-husband today about this, how I had no idea that my first seven weeks of life were impacting our present relationship, and that I was anticipating him leaving. That's what I was doing for years. And repeating that pattern of believing that's what was going to happen. And that is what happened because that's what I anticipated. Everybody leaves. So of course that's gonna happen. So it's, and of course, it's not all my responsibility. I'm not saying that, but that is how it played out in my own life. That was how the meaning became pattern for me. Yep. And so what I've had to learn to do personally is take those old stories, old emotions, old frequencies that I feel, allow myself to actually feel them real time. So that can be kind of traumatic. So you have to be careful about that. But I will take myself there for a minute. Okay, what did that feel like? What does my body do? Like you described, contracts, my heart beats faster. I'm like, I'm wanting to run, like right, like the fight or flight is is kicking in. I let my bodies feel that and I stay with it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I do. That's what I didn't do before. I was gonna say, but the difference is, so again, our nervous system, the way I see it, I want you to imagine your nervous system or your identity. So your identity is who you are repeatedly being. It's who you see yourself as.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Imagine it like a scale, like those scales of weighing things out. Yes. So it's my favorite way of saying it. You have stacked, I want you to imagine on one side of the scale, you have a bunch of rice. And this is this is who you have been. And it's made up of every tiny little small moment you've ever had. Here you go. And you're going, I want to change. I don't want to feel this way over and over again. Well, the other side of the scale, every time you take one, that same thing, let's just say it's relationships, and you go into your body and you give it a new experience with that same thing, you've changed one grain of the association. Cool, let's do it again. You go into it again. You're like, okay, last time I was in a relationship, I was always leaving. I was always leaving. I just wanted to run away. And you stay. Even if this is, like Julie said, imaginary in your own visualization experience, and you experience what would it be like to not run? I'm just gonna stay. I'm just gonna stay. That's two grains of rice. Okay, let's do it again tomorrow. Let's imagine staying and not even just staying, feeling safe, staying, feeling you could stay even longer if you want to. Let's okay, let's stay longer. Another grain, another grain, another grain. Every time you stack a new rep in a new emotional experience, you are changing the associations that your body naturally, automatically goes into. So now when you go to get into a relationship again, your body's like, yeah, I stay. This is a little bit uncomfortable, but I await on somebody who stays. You believe that about yourself because now you have built in a new association, which creates a new anticipation, which creates a new thought and feeling loop, which creates a new opportunity, new reality here. So you're you're spot on in the fact that we don't even have to be in that new environment yet. We can do this environmentally internally, which is powerful.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it really is. And I think that's one of the things that if if you play it out, right? So you put yourself in that original association, but then you change it. So for me, it's everybody leaves. Everybody's gonna abandon me. So I'm not gonna lean into a relationship. I'm just gonna stay independent. I'm not gonna be codependent anymore because that I hate it, which isn't true. Codependency saved me for a while. And then I'm not gonna be interdependent because that that's risky for me. That means I'm gonna be vulnerable. Nope, just gonna stay independent, right? So I put myself there and I experience what that feels like. Yeah, freaking lonely. I don't like it. But then I allow myself to be with myself in it and I go, do I want this? What else could be true? This is something that you've helped me with too. What else could be true here? What's the new association? If I allow myself to be vulnerable, vulnerable, let's change it. So what does that feel like? Ooh, there's a new energy here. There's a, oh, there might be a little bit of a connection. Okay, cool. Let's play that out. What does that feel like in your body? So that is because what you do in there, and this is what you've talked about in your most recent episodes, is learning the nervous system.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What you're doing there is you're training your nervous system. Literally, you're training your nervous system to go, oh, so that that familiar hell can actually become a heaven if I give myself the capacity to be with it for a little bit and see what it feels like.

SPEAKER_01

Because your nervous system is protecting. But I think it's important to just if I'm being honest, if I got my shot here, y'all, I would say there is no real healing without doing nervous system work. I agree. So if you hear us and you're like, that sounds like a little bit of time, or that sounds uncomfortable. You cannot bypass this because, period, end of story, you have this beautiful authentic spirit inside of your body. And God gave you a body to hold that spirit while you're here. And that body's job is to keep you safe. And it will never bypass its job. So until you work with the body to say, we're safe being loved, we're safe being our authentic selves, we're safe being in relationship, we're safe to drop the weight and love ourselves, all of it. I just want to say this because I see so many people trying to uh hyper speed their healing and or do anything to band-aid it. And although this takes time, this creates lasting change. This is the stuff that, like, you turn around in two years and you go, Oh, what? I forgot I used to be this person. It's been so long. That's what I want for your clients is to understand, and this is the work you do. I've had an opportunity to intimately know what you do in your work and to know these are the sessions, this is the work that you're doing. And so I just want to say that to be honest, because we wish it was in a book. We wish it was in a retreat, we wish it was in one session.

SPEAKER_02

Hey, if you're listening to this podcast episode and finding yourself thinking, wow, this explains so much. I want to personally invite you into my next Revelation Live experience starting Monday, May 25th. This is a gentle adoptee-centered seven-day experience where we begin exploring the patterns, beliefs, and survival responses many of us have carried for years through the lens of self-awareness, somatic reflections, and belonging. You'll receive daily teachings, guided reflections, and access to our private community so you don't have to do this work alone. Because healing doesn't begin by fixing yourself, it begins by finally understanding yourself. You can find the link to join in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01

It's in the work, and it's the work with the nervous system that will change your energetic experience, which everything that is ever physical first started energetically. And I just, you know, that's the work that I do. And I want to be transparent about the root is always invisible. And if you work with the invisible stuff, you'll actually change it for good.

SPEAKER_02

No, you will. And what's so funny, I don't know if you noticed my face and you were talking about your scale. No, I mean, any of my clients know that scale well. Like, it's the best visual. Yeah, but it's the best visual. Yeah. I have a visual on my onboarding calls that describes this idea because it's so crucial and so important for them to understand. It's those little incremental, tiny little shifts that you make on a consistent basis that makes the big shift later. The the way, the way that I like to describe it right now, my newest kind of idea that has come to my mind is there's, I believe, five conditions that need to exist for us to be able to cultivate self-belonging. You know, from our podcast that we did, I really believe it's a practice. It's not like you just talked about, you have to go through to get to self-belonging. It's not like you just arrive there. The five conditions I really believe are curiosity, the first one. Curiosity is is the first one. The second one is clarity. They're all C's. Conditions, C's. Curiosity, clarity, capacity, meaning you teach your body they can that it can hold it, right? Connection is the next one. But these have to be there too before you can connect. If you're not curious with your own self, if you're not, you know what I'm saying? And then lastly, it's consistency. Those five conditions I have learned in my own experience are what produce the fertile ground for belonging to exist. Because if we don't come home to ourselves that way and become curious and not judgmental, we're gonna stay stuck. And that's that's the beauty of this work. It's not easy and it is painful at times, but we don't, we shouldn't get into this to bypass pain. A lot of people do. Yeah. But we have to go into the pain, deal with the pain, feel the pain, experience the pain in a way that our nervous system knows we will hold. That's where the capacity comes. And that's what when you say, This is nervous system work, that's what I believe. I don't, I don't know how you can do this. Come home to yourself without it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I don't either. And I don't know that it would ever be long-lasting. And I'm not somebody who is interested in the facade talk that's online, you know, about like this one thing will change your life. What I am interested in is people putting their phones down, resting their heads on the pillow at night, going, I like myself. I'm proud of myself. I feel at home with myself. This is why my work is sovereignty. It's belonging to yourself. It's just a different way than you're doing it, but it's the same thing. And, you know, I want to say something. I I've even told this to my children. I have three children. Two of them understand me. They're, you know, ain't Jen, the two-year-old, not yet, but I'm gonna keep instilling it in them. But I want to say it to your audience now, too. You came in and will go out of this life with one person, and it's you. Your parents, your children, your friends, your relationships, everyone will leave you at some point, such as life, as they should, right? The only person who will ever be on your side for all of your lifetime is you. And when you learn to be on your own side, to build a relationship with the one you came in with, the one you're gonna end with, and be on your own side, you will live such a different life of feeling supported, feeling connected, feeling like you can face the future, feeling like you've got enough because you've found that wholeness that happens only when you are in wholeness with yourself. And sometimes that can feel really scary when you're like, but I want it another way. I would like everyone to stay and I'd like everything to work out. We can't control that. What we can control is ourselves and how we relate to ourselves. And so I want to encourage everyone to really lean into getting to be on your own side. It changes your experience of everything.

SPEAKER_02

It truly does. It's why I'm here. It's when I heard you say be your own best friend, oh how? I don't like her.

SPEAKER_01

What's so and the way you talk about yourself now? Oh, y'all, Julie loves herself. She'll come on calls and she'll be like, So I was just with my 17-year-old self with my four-year-old self. And we were having the best time. The way that you've been able to remember who you were, who you are, and to love those parts of you. I've never seen anyone truly have such a relationship with all the parts of themselves. And because of that, you come on as so in love with yourself, so on your own side, so not obsessed. You know what I'm saying? I love myself, I treasure myself. I this is that's my girl. How beautiful. And because of that, the energy comes off of you of enoughness. I'm on my own side. So everybody else is a bonus, a new relationship, a new client, and whatever. Everything else is bonus to you because you've already met your own sufficiency needs inside. Isn't that cool? So you've got this whole um abundance energy that comes off of you because you've met all your own needs within yourself. That is sovereignty.

SPEAKER_02

That's huge. Wow. Huge. Well, I really appreciate that. Took a lot of work to get here. You remember trying to get me to even figure out what the heck I wanted. That was the first one of the first questions you asked me. I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, oh, this is great, right? The fact that you don't know what you want. How interesting. Let's get curious about this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. My gosh. It was so amazing. Well, that was cool. I mean, the you've already talked about so much the times that you've had to burn down your business and build it up and what that did for you, and how you stopped building from performance. You didn't say this, but I do know that. And how you started building from truth. And that's where I think this sovereignty work came from. And with that, I think you've become, you know, resilient, just like I would, this podcast is called The Resilience Project. When we illuminate the things in our lives that need work, that need help, and we pursue the work of helping those parts of ourselves. Like you just talked about me hanging out with my 17-year-old, it's it's a beautiful thing because what ends up happening is you create that self-trust. You create that truth that you've so desperately wanted. And you're you're so good at that. And I think when I think about how you've impacted my own business building, if I want to shift a little moving into this piece, you helped me come up with the whole idea of making revelation live, my my seven-day program. You helped me come up with the idea of creating the I am not a burden gathering that I did. You helped me really cultivate and nurture something that I was having a really hard time birthing. And what's amazing to me about that is every time something has birthed in my business, it's been in April. Which I think is really crazy. I know it's just crazy. And I didn't even, it didn't even dawn on me until I started the first actual big thing that I did was in April of 2024. And I thought about it and I was like, well, wait a minute, a year ago, around this time, so it's just been really interesting. That's cool. But you have been such a big part of that. So you were one of the people who helped me shape all of those things.

SPEAKER_01

What did you see in me that maybe I couldn't fully see yet? I saw your passion. So one of the gifts of having a coach is a coach is not, I just want you guys to know, a coach already believes that the person in front of them is naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. So I didn't look at you, Julie, and say you're broken, you need fixing. You don't look at your close clients and say that. I look at you and I go, where does she come alive? Because that is what she's meant to bring to the world. And so when I go into my business mode, I'm listening for what are you coming alive about? What are the words that she's saying where it's like, I watch you go off on tangents and you're like, oh my gosh, if they only knew they weren't a burden, I'm writing it down. You're not a burden, right? Like, or so you're talking about resilience, you're thinking about a podcast. What I saw in you was the moments that you came alive. And what I ultimately believe is that when we have the most energy, the most passion, the most vitality, that again, I'm a very spiritual person. So what I believe is that that is an overflow of God's energy going, do it, build it. I'll give you even more energy for it. Because a lot of times we doubt we will have what it takes to do our big passions, to do our big dreams. But when we feel a rising energy, that's a sign to me that God's gonna give them more. Just keep going. You're gonna get an influx of energy to build, do, speak, create whatever that was. And so I saw you come alive for that. That's the first thing. But the second thing is, I could see how much it meant to you. I could see how much your healing journey and what even one other adoptee understanding themselves better, even just from a place of understanding themselves, it would change their lives if they understand you're not essentially broken. This is a thing that happened because of a rupture. This isn't your nature. You are naturally amazing. And here's how we can. I watched you have passion and meaning for it. And so I saw that in you. And I know you see that in your clients because I've watched I've gotten to know some of your clients who are now totally different humans because you believed in them because you mirrored back their magnificence and their brilliance and their greatness. And so, yeah, I don't know if I answered that question. It was just genuinely what I felt.

SPEAKER_02

You did.

SPEAKER_01

And still feel every time. And and the truth is, I've said it to you privately. I believe you're pioneering something. I believe that you are paving a road for something that will be so well known and so understood in the future. I think you're the advocate for it. And that means sometimes you have to go alone and you're there's no road. There's no path paved for me. You're the pioneer. You're the one who's gonna start understanding it and discovering it. But think about how many adoptees have messaged you in the DMs or or reached out to you privately, even one acknowledgement, one other person who goes, I felt so seen. Thank you. It matters what the work that you're doing has mattered. So yeah, that's what I saw in you.

SPEAKER_02

I really appreciate that. I think one of the biggest, and I'm honored, one of the biggest things that I have learned for me recently in probably the last nine months is this whole idea of the difference between a movement and building a business. Yeah. They're not the same thing. So I think before I was building a business. Yeah. Right? Because I didn't, but but what was within me was this movement mindset. And I think that's what you're describing.

SPEAKER_01

So I guess that would be my it's beyond you, Julie. It's bigger than you. What you're doing is not just for you. It's not for the glory of Julie, it's not for none of it. This is for us. This is for us. It's always been a we energy with you. And I believe it's gonna take a life of its own because it's a movement that you're inviting every other adoptee into to belong to themselves. We're gonna do it together. And every week with your free podcast, you're giving free information, free breakthroughs, free mind shifts. It's because you care. That's that's what a movement leader does. They believe in it, whether whether that person becomes their client or not, you're about the work for the rest of your life. And that's a movement leader.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. So much. Well, I want to tie this a little bit back to sovereignty and the body. Do you think I think you've answered this already? Do you think somebody can become sovereign if they're disconnected from their body?

SPEAKER_01

No.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I didn't think so either. I just wanted to confirm it.

SPEAKER_01

Want to hear it directly from you. Yeah. So we have three parts of who we are: a mind, a body, and a spirit. And eventually those three things all have to be acknowledged. They all have to be accessed. And so you can't mental mindset only. You can't just connect with God and think, great, now I'm going to be healed. No, no, no. God also gave you a body. All three of these things have to be combined. And transparently, I remember when I suffered badly from anxiety and depression. And I remember going to church and praying, God, would you take this off of me? Take this off of me. Take this off of me. And I was like, why is God not healing me? Because I'm connecting with my spirit. I'm asking, connect to my mind or reading books. The one piece I'd not accessed was the body. And I believe it's because God wanted me to learn how to connect to my body. God wanted me to learn these things because it was a part of my work. And so sovereignty again means taking back all of your power within yourself so you can make real, actual, aligned decisions, not from your conditioned, programmed self, but from your authentic self, the one who knows that they are loved and the one who can sense, I don't feel comfortable here. Hmm. What does that mean? Your body is always giving you signals over what you're actually thinking and feeling. And a lot of times, I would imagine even with your adoptees, my clients certainly are. I'll ask them what they feel or where they feel in their body. And they're like, what are you saying? Right? They're so stuck in their head, they don't know even how their body has been communicating all of that information to them. And so when we learn how to connect with the body, we can actually know what's been happening underneath the surface. And without that, you are missing a third of the puzzle. That's essentially what I believe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, pretty big piece of it. I think a lot of people think if we just change our mindset, then everything changes. But I think it's so you can't, you can't mindset your way through nervous system shifts. You just can't. What you described is a three-part um picture to this that needs to be actually worked through. Mindset is a part of it, but the body's huge. And if we forget about it.

SPEAKER_01

And if I was going to be really honest, I would believe going to the body is the piece that actually gives you access to your spirit, gives you access to your mind. Go there first. Because it was always the host of those two things. It's always the gateway to those two things. Because again, from a bigger sense, like you have a beautiful spirit that has a body. And the body's job is to keep that spirit alive so it can go do its purpose, so it can live its life. It your spirit, if you didn't know this, anyone who's listened, listening, it's unlimited. Your spirit has no limits. And so if your spirit was left to its own devices, it would be like, let's jump off this cliff. I'm limitless, right? So your body, God's like, no, no, we can't let that happen. It would leave Earth. So we need it, it needs a body, it needs something to keep it safe. And so your body's only job was to say, what's good for me, what's not, what's safe for me, what's not. And so if we go to the body, we can start to hear the communication that was always happening between our spirit and our mind. So I would say if you did anything, go to the body first because it's a gateway to the two others.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I think one of the things that I have learned, even working with you, is you help me with a few things from the very beginning, many things, but from the very beginning, I think it was realizing what actually allows me to change is multiple things, but it it begins with connecting to my wants. What do I desire? That was one of the first things that I really had to tune into. But then I remember hearing from you, and this is where this whole mindset idea came, was that information is not transformation, right? That in order to transform, we've got to allow ourselves to feel that safety that you described within our bodies first to be able to get to that place where we can actually change our mindset. There's that stick figure that you used to always share from Bob Proctor that talked about all of those different pieces and the different um senses coming out of our body. It was so good for me. But then I think the other thing was you witnessed me. You took the time to witness and understand and see me, even though you are not an adopted person. And I think that's really important. You didn't say to me, Well, just get over it, move on, which I've heard my whole life. I, in a way, I did have to educate you a little bit about what I had experienced, but you were so down to receive it. So even though you're not adopted, you have worked closely with some, like some you didn't even know were, but then you even had a coach recently who you connected me to, who is adopted. And I find this kind of interesting how I have found people in my life who've been connected to adoption in some way, not personally, meaning you don't have an adopted brother or whatever like that, but with all that understanding, there's a reason why I'm asking you this. What have you come to understand about adoptees that you didn't before?

SPEAKER_01

Everything, everything, everything. No, I really came with a help me understand mindset. Yeah. Tell me. I felt very curious about what's it like. And I really did listen because I really did want to understand. And I'll tell you, it was so eye-opening for me to imagine what it must be like to be severed from that connection in the beginning. It honestly makes me feel emotional because anyone who's just listening, I have told Julie in our own private work, I've said, Julie, what you are doing with adoptees is you are dealing with the biggest root problem that exists globally. When I look at every problem on the planet, I think it's because we're severed from ourselves. And so adoptees know this more intimately than anyone else on the planet. But when that healing comes back together, when that sense of belonging, I've I've watched your clients, I've watched you, I've watched how much magic comes from those humans who come home to themselves. So as equally as it was, wow, this is hard, I have watched it become that much more empowering, that much more magical, that much more loving, that much more beautiful in the adoptee community. It's it's even more of God's love that it's like bigger, right? I liken it to the fact that I I longed for a baby that I couldn't have for a really long time. And so the minute I had that baby, I experienced, I kind of think of it like a pendulum. I missed, was sad for a really long time and had to deal with that on one side. But the pleasure, the joy, the sensation, the appreciation, the adoration I get to experience for having her is even bigger because of the longing that was on the other side. And I see that in your clients, their sense of self, you watching you, the transformation and the bigness of it on the other side is even more beautiful, if I'm being honest. It's even more magical. Um, so that's been a privilege to watch.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I am so grateful that you have been so willing to actually seek to understand. Because a lot of people don't. And to them, it feels like why is it that big of a deal? Because of how society has viewed it, that it's rescue, that that you've been saved, that you've been chosen, all of those things that are ick words to us. You've been able to receive that and not judge because of your curiosity. It's been helped me to come home to myself, and I'm very, very grateful for that. So, a couple more questions. What feels important to you for adoptees to hear from someone outside of the experience?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's a great question. Okay, so I feel this way is we don't know. And so don't expect us to know. Don't be mad that we don't already know. Don't make us pay for the fact that we don't already know. And if you come with, I'm just thinking of family members, because again, I've gotten to be in a lot of your experiences and even heard stories. And it can feel painful when you bring your heart to your family members, I would imagine, and they go, You should just be grateful. Why can't you just see the good? Here's what I would want adoptees to know. If you seek to understand and ask to be understood, right? Bring that energy, right? I could imagine coming to your family and saying, I want to talk to you about something that feels vulnerable to me. I want to share with you what my experience has been like, what I'm understanding about my adoptee experience. And this does not change how I feel about you, but I want you to know me. I want you to understand what it's been like. Are you at a place that you feel like you could just listen and just imagine what it might be like? And I'm not asking you to say anything. I just want to share myself with you. I feel like that energy becomes a loving, connection-focused energy rather than I'm upset with you that you can't understand my experience. I can't understand your experience, Julie, but I can listen. I can seek to listen and to understand. So I think coming with your family members when you're sharing and just saying, I want to connect, I want to share. Are you are you available for me to tell you what this has been like and see if they're open? I I see that globally, by the way, with lots of things. If we would just seek to hear each other. And um, I think there's just just some truth there.

SPEAKER_02

There really is. And I think that phrase actually was what helped me when I was experiencing some pushback from from my own adopted family and even my first family, natural family, whatever you call it, that there's so many names that people call it. But there was this phrase that really helped me, which was I I don't expect you to understand. I don't how how could you? But I would appreciate it if you could accept that this is my lived experience. And using that phrase has helped me so much. You helped me cultivate that. And I think with my mom specifically, it it changed our relationship. She realized if she she didn't understand and she lived in that place of not understanding and questioning me all the time, she'd lose me. And she didn't want to do that. And so she, you know, and of course came on my podcast, and it was wonderful to have her be on there as something that I can keep forever. But yeah, I think what you said is very, very true. You won't understand. And and and that we need to not expect you to understand. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because we won't. We haven't lived it. But if you come with an intention of my intention here is to connect, to share myself, to to connect deeper with you. And I just would love to share this with you so you can know more about who I really am. You may not understand it, but uh, can you accept me in it that this is a part of how I felt through the world? This is how I feel in the world, then the goal is just connection rather than understanding. Right?

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. Huge. One final thing uh for the person listening who feels stuck in old meanings, old stories, survival patterns, or identities that they really have outgrown, but they don't know how to deal with them. What would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_01

They feel stuck in old patterns. I feel like the first thing that's showing up for me is there's two things. I kind of go mind and then I kind of go apart for a second. So the first thing that's a tool that I use that's very helpful is to disconnect our patterns from our personality. So a lot of times we think, I am this person, I am always avoiding, I am always jealous, I am, I am. And so what's happening is we're reconfirming association, we're reconfirming our identity, and we think we just are these people.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I there's an assessment, Julie put it in the notes. It's called positive intelligence assessment, and it shows you what your top sabotaging patterns are. That guess what came from childhood. They were just the patterns that you learned to use as a coping mechanism and that you rely on even in adulthood that at one point helped you survive, but now are are inhibiting you from being a whole human that you're meant to be. So that was liberating for me to disconnect it from who I am and to see it. Oh, this is automatic habits I learned. It's not who I am, it's what I'm right now in a habitual pattern to do. Even separating that allows you to have a little bit more compassion and distance from it being your personality. So when I'm in my head, I immediately say, start there because you will just begin to, you first have to have awareness before you can even change anything. And the second thing I I would really go to for someone who's feeling stuck but wants to change the story. This has been a fun exercise for me. I would write down what are what are these repeating stories that keep happening to me? And I would write those down. And then I would say, what have been the gifts that have come from these experiences in my life? For example, burning out twice, you guys, I have developed more compassion and humbleness and care for people who are hurting. Had that never happened to me, I would have never known the depths of caring about humans who are struggling that I have. So I encourage you to write down what were all the gifts that have come from these experiences. And then I pray, Julie, I just say, God, thank you for these gifts. Thank you for now. I get to move these gifts forward, but I pray, I say, God, I don't want to have to keep repeating these patterns to keep learning these lessons. I'm gonna take the gifts and leave the patterns. And I just pray that God would loosen the grip of those things and help me to take the virtues, take those beautiful lessons, those gifts, those wonderful qualities they brought me, but leave the patterns and I start separating myself. So even that changes the story. Are you kidding me? Right now, anyone who's listening, I'm leading my first money program right now. I could have never led this had I not taken the gifts from the last three years of burning down, shutting down a business, living on close to nothing when I had been renting private islands and traveling the world. But I'm taking the gifts. I don't need to burn out a third time in order to keep me connected to helping people with their patterns and money and nervous system. I'm gonna take the gifts, I'm gonna use those gifts and move on. So I would just say, take a moment to look at the gifts and change the story. Those things brought you some blessings and you can move on from them now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, love that. Give them the the attention that they need, similar to like we do our voices, the inner critics, and then let them know I've got this, we're moving forward with the gifts, not the obstacles. I love that. So cool. And I know, well, I don't know. I'm gonna ask. What is what is something that you have going on right now or anything that you want to share with my listeners that might be supportive to them?

SPEAKER_01

I'm obsessed with a program I just created called Rooted.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And it is a 21-day audio, 12 minutes or less, every single day. You are learning about the nervous system, and then you go into a meditation or an experience of the nervous system. So what it's doing is helping you to understand the body. Julie talks about this a lot. You know, the body is speaking in signs of the body. And if you don't know how to listen to it, you can't change your nervous system. So this is an incredible program. It is literally a YouTube playlist. You just press play every day. It comes in your email, you open the email, you click and listen. It is so easy. And it allows you to go, those symptoms were my nervous system and survival. Oh, these symptoms are how I feel when I feel safe. You start to actually learn what is happening in your body and what it means about where you are in a nervous system state. And that is empowering. So rooted could not recommend it enough, especially in this day and age when so much is happening in our world. And beyond feeling uncomfortable and unsettled within ourselves, we're looking outside of ourselves, feeling scared, nervous, chaotic. This is a program that will help you begin to find what's what's called rooted grounding stability within yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, which is so important. And I was hoping you were gonna bring that one up, but I didn't want to, I didn't know. So I'm just grateful that that's what you chose. I'll make sure to include that in the show notes as well. Well, Kelly, thank you so much. Seriously, not just for this conversation, but for the role that you have played in my life over the last three years, really. Three full years. Um, there are certain people who enter your life and help you remember who you already are. And that was you. Whether you realized it or not, that's what you helped me do. You helped me trust my voice. You helped me find it. You helped me trust my knowing. You helped me trust the work that I was called to create, even when I was scared to do so. And I know so many people listening are going to take pieces of this conversation and be able to use them long after, after this episode ends, especially the reminder that what we associate, we actually anticipate. And I think knowing this, that that healing is learning, that we don't have to keep rehearsing the same past over and over again, just like you beautifully described, turning that into a gift. We can create something new and reframe it. And it's not something that we force, it's not something that we have to perform, important, but through awareness, through safety, through truth, through practice, like I talk about. So if you're listening right now and something stirred in you, pause there. Notice it because awareness is often where this begins. And maybe, just maybe, the version of you that's been built around survival doesn't have to be the version that leads your life anymore. And I'm really glad that you've been here with me, Kelly, and my listeners and my viewers, and I'll see you next week. The one thing I want to remind you all about is the retreat coming up in two weeks with Liz Debeta and I. It's going to be in Moscow, Idaho. We're very excited about it. We still have some spots available. I'll make sure I include that in the show notes. And the last thing I want to say, and I know Kelly feels this way too, because I hear her say it on her podcast all the time. If anything landed, resonated, stood out to you, please feel free to DM either of us about whatever that is. Because we love having conversations about this stuff. Seriously, we geek out on it. So just please feel free to DM us, and I will also include that information in the show notes. And thank you, Kelly, so much. I love you. I love you too.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for having me, and I'm so proud of all you're doing. I'm really grateful for the healing you're bringing to the world. Thank you, Kelly.

SPEAKER_02

I wouldn't have been able to be where I am today without your encouragement. So I really appreciate it. Have a great Thursday, everybody. Peace. Kelly, do your peace sign.