The Resilience Project

Un-M-Othered: A Revolution in Adoptee Healing - Five Adoptees on Experiencing the Five Conditions

• Julie Brumley

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Five Voices, One Room

This episode is different from the rest of the series. Instead of teaching the five conditions solo, Julie sits down with Dr. Liz DeBetta and five adoptees - Mike, Jill, Nicole, Jeremy, and Jen - who were part of the Un-M-Othered retreat in Moscow, Idaho this past May. Together they walk back through Curiosity, Clarity, Capacity, Connection, and Consistency, this time through the lived experience of the people who were actually in the room.

The retreat itself was born from a request: Julie's client Mike asked her to bring Dr. Liz's Un-M-Othered film to his community, not realizing Julie and Liz had already been dreaming up exactly that. Their two frameworks - Liz's Migrating Toward Wholeness and Julie's 7-phase Belonging Blueprint - anchored the weekend.

In this episode:

  • Why Mike reached out for something deeper than what already existed for adoptees
  • What it felt like for Dr. Liz to watch years of dreaming become a room full of real people
  • Jeremy and Jen on what it meant to walk in as siblings who share an adoption story, versus Jill and Nicole walking in alone
  • How curiosity showed up differently in the body the second time watching Liz's film
  • Nicole on reframing hypervigilance as a skill rather than only a wound
  • The origin of Dr. Liz's mantra: more stories = more connection, more connection = more healing
  • Jen's experience of staying with discomfort instead of disappearing, and what self-abandonment looks like for her
  • How Dr. Liz's Migrating Toward Wholeness framework supports the "return to self" through writing
  • Jeremy and Jen on being witnessed by a room that didn't require translation or explanation
  • Jill's puzzle-piece analogy for incremental shifts, and Julie's grains-of-rice metaphor for how transformation actually happens
  • What it feels like in a room when multiple adoptees find language for the same unnamed thing at the same time
  • Each guest's one sustainable next step two weeks post-retreat
  • The closing round: what each person is no longer available for, and what they're actively reclaiming

Closing words - three words for the body right now:
Jill: relax, believe, peace
Nicole: content, hope, fulfilled
Jen: healing, open, present
Mike: grateful, hopeful, content
Jeremy: grateful, curious, calm

What's next for Dr. Liz DeBetta:
Monthly virtual retreats resuming late August, small group coaching launching in fall and spring cohorts, ongoing one-on-one work, and a free monthly drop-in circle open to anyone in the adoption constellation.

A second Un-M-Othered retreat with Julie and Liz is in the works - date to be announced soon.

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SPEAKER_07

Hi y'all, I'm Julie. I'm a trauma-informed adoptee coach and somatic healing guide. After overcoming deep abandonment wounds, I now help adult adoptees move from feeling lost and disconnected to experiencing profound self-belonging. I know what it is like to carry the weight of abandonment, to feel stuck in patterns of longing, adapting, and searching for belonging. To have tried every healing modality available and come up empty. My own healing has taught me this. The answers aren't out there, they're buried within me. And I'm here to guide you home to yourself. The Resilience Project Podcast brings voice, visibility, and validation to the parts of adoption society rarely names, but all of us feel. Through an trauma-informed somatic lens, I explore the lived experiences of the entire adoption constellation with a tender emphasis on the adoptee experience. This podcast goes beyond storytelling into soul telling. It offers embodied insight, compassionate education, and a path towards awareness, hope, and strength. Each episode invites listeners to understand adoption more deeply, not just with the mind, but with the nervous system, and to reconnect with the truth, identity, and belonging that were always yours to come home to. Welcome. And I just wanted to say, we're gonna introduce them all in just a minute, but this is the crew from the retreat that Liz and I did just a couple of weeks ago. Now, this is going to be released in a few weeks, but we are having a bit of a reunion right now and are really excited to be together. So, what if belonging wasn't something that you had to earn from a birth family, an adoptive family, a community, but something your own body could slowly, quietly build from the inside out? That question sat at the center of a very special weekend in Moscow, Idaho, that I was just talking about. But before I tell you about the retreat, I want to tell you how it actually started. Because it started with a client of mine, Mike, who's on this call. He came to me and said that he wanted to bring Dr. Liz's new digital version of her show, Unmothered, to a town near him. He desired something for adoptees that went deeper than what existed. And what he didn't know was that my dear colleague and friend, I call her my sister from another Mr. Dr. Liz Debeta and I had already been dreaming up exactly that. His ask became the nudge that turned a dream into a room full of people ready to heal. On May 23rd and 24th of this year, that room came to life. Unmothered a revolution in Adoptee Healing, a somatic and narrative retreat anchored in Dr. Liz's film and her migrating toward wholeness framework, and my seven-phase belonging blueprint brought together a small group of adoptees who were ready to go there. Today, I have the honor of sitting with Dr. Liz and all five of the people who were in that room: Mike, Jill, Nicole, and siblings, Jeremy and Jen, who were adopted together. We're going to walk through the five conditions of self-belonging that anchored the somatic part of the workshop and let the people who lived it tell you what it actually felt like from the inside. And I'm going to go ahead and use Liz's catchphrase, more stories equals more connection, and more connection equals more healing. So let's begin. So glad you guys are all here. If you want to go ahead and unmute and say hello to the audience, that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_03

Howie. Hello. Hello?

SPEAKER_07

Hi. Hi there. Hello. That was everyone, y'all, all their lovely voices. So we're going to go ahead and warm up with some questions before we move right into the conditions. So, Mike, I want to start with you. I know you were the spark for this in a lot of ways. What made you reach out and ask for something like this? And what did you expect when you walked in that Saturday?

SPEAKER_02

So in the process of revolution, it came out in several different ways that I could be accepted in other circles, and I could put that in quotes. So the mental birth of this was me looking for ways to find or create other circles where I might be accepted. As to expectations, I had the benefit of being present during some of the discussion of building scaffolding and framework for everybody to be able to be with themselves. So I was looking forward to watching that scaffolding being built and having my scaffolding reinforced in the process. And I was actually amazed at how well that was accomplished.

SPEAKER_07

That's awesome. So you brought up revolution. I'm not sure everybody that is listening may know what you're talking about. You want to give us a little bit more of an explanation of what that is?

SPEAKER_02

Sure. Revolution is your long program for adoptees like me to learn to deal with our inner world or what how you call it, coming home to self. And it was there that that I got access to you and to a lesser extent to Liz and her film.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. So let's move right on to Liz with this because you and I already had been talking about this years before this even came to fruition. So what did it feel like when the dream actually became a room full of people for you, Liz?

SPEAKER_06

It was, it was just, I don't have a lot of words still. I mean, I'm still thinking about the enormity of us all coming together and making the commitment to say yes to this time together, this process, this new thing that we that we said we were just gonna throw the spaghetti at the wall and and see what sticks. And that's the thing, is it felt so fulfilling because it it was confirmation that when you take steps to create something, there are people listening and there are people that are ready to receive it. And it was so beautiful to show up and to have every single person in the room be ready and willing to connect and to be curious and to begin to explore some things that hadn't been explored before. And I'm profoundly grateful for the level of trust that everyone placed in us in the process in this idea. So that's what I think I would have to say about what it feels like for the thing that we had dreamed about for a while and the deep fulfillment and gratitude of watching it be a success.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I totally can agree with that. The word that I have used a bunch is sacred. It really felt sacred and something that I will cherish for a very long time and myself still trying to find words for, Liz. So, and I think all of us are so just grateful to be able to be together and pull all of this together as a group that's something really, really special. So, Jeremy and Jen, I want to ask you guys something. You walked in as siblings who share an adoption story. No one else in the room shared that story. Was there something different about arriving together versus arriving alone for you that you noticed?

SPEAKER_00

So I'll go first. I'm sure Jen's answer is different than mine. I think that showing up with somebody who I grew up with, we always knew we were adopted. We aren't biologically linked, but we went through our childhoods together with this known similarity, right? Um and so, in order to be able to walk into a room for the first time I've ever been in a room entirely of other adoptees with the one that I'd been with since I was picked up. It was kind of special. And it was also neat because I think I learned things about myself that I wouldn't have if she hadn't come with me. Because context, I mean, it means a lot, right? And her perspective, the things that she shared and just the conversations that we've had since then. I've learned so much just by having that access and that experience with her.

SPEAKER_07

Wow. What a beautiful thing. I love that. Thank you for sharing, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_01

How about you, Jen? For me, it was I had no idea what I was walking into. So walking in with him made it feel a whole lot safer, you know, more safe. And um there was someone there that knew my situation, and um so I would have been a lot more guarded if he wasn't there. And um it made it easier for me to show up.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, that makes sense. And show up you did, my friend. And we are so glad that you were there. Thank you so much. Jill and Nicole, for those of you who came on your own, because that's the two of you, okay. What did you bring into that room that nobody could see from the outside?

SPEAKER_04

So if it's okay, Nicole, I'll jump out there. But corny as it sounds, I brought my ancestors with me. There's just something about this whole experience finding them and seeing and unseen all the way back to 1700 Germany. There's something about knowing you got people, and so you can be brave because you've got people, and you wouldn't see that with me just walking in there by myself. And it did help knowing you, Julie, and Mike and Liz ahead of time. So I didn't ever feel like I was walking in there alone. I at least knew someone as I entered the room. It was magical though. Just even think about walking through those doors. It was a wonderful experience.

SPEAKER_07

I just got the chills when you said that. I love that. Thank you for sharing, Jill. How about you, Nicole?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, for me, I would say that I came in carrying a lot of grief. I was in the deepest part of my search. And I think when I initially had registered for the retreat, I was really looking for connections and looking for more than just acquaintances. Um and yeah, I think it was a couple weeks before I was really heavy in grief. And I think there was a little bit of fear, even. And I grew up with the belief your attitude's contagious. And so I kind of was worried, what if I don't show up in the right way? But I think it's there's no right way to show up. And what I got from the experience was so beautiful, and I just found that I was able to, I I guess I would say that I walked away with more hope, knowing that maybe I don't have to have connection with biological family, and I can find meaningful relationships, um, which I very much feel like I did. So I'm so thankful for this retreat.

SPEAKER_07

Well, we are so thankful that you came and splashed into the pond as you did. You you splashed into our lives. We are grateful for you, Nicole. Yes, full experience.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

Oh my goodness. Well, I want to go ahead and move into the conditions. And the first one is curiosity. I've already done an episode on this, and it is the first one. Like I said, it's not an analysis, it's not fixing, it's just the ability to notice what's present in the body without needing to change it. And after we all watched Liz's film, I guided you guys through a body-based practice. Where did the film land in you? Not what did you think, but where did you feel it? And I think what you all began to recognize is this curiosity begins to interrupt judgment and it opens the door to more self-awareness. So, with that, Mike, I'd love to start with you. When we did that first somatic check-in after the film, what were you noticing? Was there a part of your body that held the film before your mind even was able to start processing it?

SPEAKER_02

I think for me this time through, it was held in my chest, even heart space. And honestly, I think it was held with expansiveness and curiosity, and that was different than the last time I saw it. Not only was it curiosity for me, but it was curiosity to see what else was gonna happen in the room as what we were doing played out. And again, I think that is a real testament to the work that you have taught me how to do to be able to hold that with curiosity for myself and somebody else, where two years ago, I think if I'd have seen Liz's film Cold, it'd have shut me down and I'd have ran away screaming.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. Liz's film is something for sure. And we are very, very grateful that it was our anchor. So thanks for sharing, Mike. Nicole, I'm curious. For adoptees who have spent years in hypervigilance, being asked to slow down and just notice without changing anything can feel almost impossible. What was that like for you?

SPEAKER_05

For me, I found it to be extremely difficult. I think slowness is not something that is easy to sit with. I'm someone that has to keep moving fast. So I've really had to practice how to slow down and take advantage of rest. Slow down, rest. What else? I think the not having an answer is really hard to sit with. And I think it's also learning to have more compassion for yourself and sit with that curiosity. And I think now I would say that hypervigilance in some ways is, I guess, would be like a superpower in that I'm able to really observe other people and I know how to adapt to each person and with my communication style. So in some ways, I look at it as a skill. Um and I think part of part of that is having compassion for the skill that was really hard in the earlier years.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of people can relate to that. And that's one of the things that Liz and I talk about in the work that we do is really learning how those inner voices, parts of ourselves, can be superpowers. They aren't always the negative. We can accept them, we can learn from them. And I think that's actually a really important key thing to be curious about. So thanks for sharing that, Nicole. So, Liz, you created this more stories, more connection mantra that I read at the beginning. It anchored this whole weekend in many ways. So, where did that come from? And what does it mean to you when you watch a room full of adopted people start to actually live it?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. I mean, it's in my book. I'm pretty sure that that was one of the strokes of genius that I have had in my life. And as I was writing my book, which is Adult Adoptees and Writing to Heal, Migrating Toward Wholeness, which explains each of the five core principles. Each chapter is about one of the five core principles. And somewhere in there, I came up with this idea that more stories equal more connection, and more connection equals more healing. And it's become the mantra or the tagline for migrating toward wholeness because it's true. Because one of the things that was missing in my own life, in my own family, was we weren't telling the stories that needed to be told. I was being told stories about relatives that I wasn't biologically connected to. And that had that had never felt right. And I just I would listen and I would take it in. And then as I started to develop the framework for migrating toward wholeness and started to delve more deeply into my own story and make so many of my own connections because of being able to tell my own stories, it just became clear to me that that's the central truth of this work, is that when we have the ability to come together and tell more stories, we can connect on a deeply human level. And when we connect on a deeply human level, because we're allowing ourselves to be vulnerable to get to speak our internal truths, that those connections equal the healing that we're talking about. Because healing doesn't happen in isolation and healing doesn't happen when we when we maintain silence, right? And that's why one of the other one of the five core principles is breaking silence. And that's why when we came together, that was the the beautifully incredible thing to witness everybody breaking silences, some for the first time, and making connections about parts of the themselves and their experiences that hadn't been made before because of being in a container together, right? Being in that space together with the shared internal experience, even though our identities are all different and we come from you know different geographical locations and we're different ages and everything else, the way that the experience of adoption has shaped our internal map is really, really similar. And so to watch everyone come together and really lean into the stories and let the stories do the connecting was really really special.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, it really was. Thank you so much for sharing that, Liz. So let's move into clarity, which this isn't about having it all figured out. A lot of people think it is, but it isn't. It's actually about recognizing what your body, emotions, and story are trying to show you without needing to complete a resolution. You don't need resolution for this. We did a writing exercise where people completed one of three phrases or all of these, where we talked about a part of me learned, dot dot dot, a part of me still believes, dot dot dot. What I actually needed was dot dot dot. These were the things that we were exploring and trying to get more clarity on, if you will. So Jill, I'm curious, without having to share what you wrote, can you describe what it felt like when the words started pouring out of you onto paper? Was there a phrase that maybe surprised you?

SPEAKER_04

So I have always written better than I speak. So when it comes time to speaking, I get nervous, I overthink, my voice gets all weird and shrill, and ah. And so I I don't talk very well, and this is gonna show up when people watch this. But the writing, so it's everything I was thinking and holding inside is spilled out onto the paper. So it's like my truest genuine self because I'm not filtery. No one else hears me write, right? So I'm just going at it and it just spills out onto the page and it's where I'm my most genuine self. And I don't know that I was really so much surprised. It just more comforted me that that something inside of me just finally settled. It just settled. It just all came out. And it and that's the clarity, right? Because it just yes, I can breathe deep. This is what it's supposed to be. And and that's just a wonderful feeling to be able to not have those muddled overthinking thoughts and just to be clear for once in my life to not overthink and second guess myself.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, and it brought a beautiful awareness, even when you did share. I remember thinking, wow, how profound what it was that you wrote was, and the fact that you could feel comfortable to be able to allow that to pour out onto paper. Yeah, that's the only one honor.

SPEAKER_04

Is writing it because saying the words, you've seen me, all of you. I cry real easy, and I would cry as I tried to say those things. So I had to write them because otherwise it would be unintelligible.

SPEAKER_07

Well, did you ever feel like your tears were not welcome?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, no, not at all. Are you kidding me? I'm crying from the very one. That's just how I am. People know it, they expect it.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. Well, we are so happy that you were willing to share that part of you with us. So thank you very much. Okay, Jeremy, curious, was there a moment during the weekend where something became clear that had been living in you without words until then?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So when we first did the did some writing exercises, I think I shared with the group that I have a really difficult time coming to any sort of conclusive. It always feels like I'm spinning my wheels. And at some point, I believe it was Dr. Liz suggested, you know, maybe you write in third person. And so I I tried that. And I found that it was I give other people a lot more grace than I give myself. And it's a lot easier for me to talk about someone else and to be generous with them and to not feel like it's gonna come back. It's easier to be very honest about myself when I'm writing about myself in third person, which I had that was that was huge for me. No one asked about it, but there was a time where I had to excuse myself very suddenly and urgently and get away from the honesty that was on the on the paper about this other person. It was really very revealing to me about myself.

SPEAKER_07

So well, thank you so much for going there. And I'm sure Liz, who I'm gonna ask this question next of, feels very honored that that suggestion was something that really helped you have somewhat of a breakthrough, Jeremy. So thank you for sharing that. In the workbook, Liz, you write about the language that lives in your body. What does it mean when someone finally finds language for something they've been carrying for decades?

SPEAKER_06

That's the transformational moment, right? That's the moment where we stop existing and we start living more fully into ourselves and our lives. Because when we spend so much time not having language for what's living inside of us and being told that we shouldn't ask questions or we're too much, or it's not enough, or whatever all those things are, those conditions that we've learned, or the conditions of existence. And a lot of us learn to stay silent, to stay safe. And so we don't ever get curious enough to find the words to attach meaning to our experiences. And so when people engage in this process, as we got to do together, especially over time, when folks start to find the language to describe all of the grief and all of the anxiety and all of the pain and all of the unacknowledged loss and all of the different pieces of themselves that have not been allowed to speak, it's like being able to breathe again because all of a sudden you're starting to make connections. And I think what Jeremy just shared is an example of that. When you start to find language, you feel different.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, very, very true. I think one of the things that I may have mentioned at the retreat, I cannot remember, but finding language is so important because it connects our head to our body, our neck connects that, right? The throat, that chakra, that energy center is so very important. And the reason why I think so many of us adopted people feel stuck is because we don't have the language. And so once we are able to release that and communicate it, if it's something as simple as writing in third person, or maybe it's not writing, maybe it's voice memoing to yourself and allowing yourself to hear your voice, these things are what help us to break the silence that has been held there for so long. So I think that's huge.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, go ahead. The other thing that's important about this is that, and I said this during the retreat, is that when we start to find language, we're we're beginning a dialogue with ourselves that becomes an ongoing dialogue that then helps us to have better dialogue with other people in our lives. But it has to start first by dialoguing with ourselves. And so that's where that third person writing tip is really useful because it allows us to talk to the parts of ourselves that we may not have paid attention to ever before. And it allows us to open a door and to start to see that other person and have empathy for them and be curious about what's still there that needs tending to. And then once we start to have language for ourselves, we have language that we can use with other people. And that's the bigger shift, is that then it becomes a ripple effect that now I've not only given myself the opportunity of giving language to my experiences and expressing things that I had have been holding on to for too long. Now I'm able to talk about it with other people. And that was why we did this together and why we invited sharing, so that we could become witnesses for one another and practice the dialogue that we're starting with ourselves, with each other.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And then hopefully over time, people take that back out into every other relationship in their lives. And it creates again, it's that's the more stories equal more connection, and more connection equals more healing. Because if I know what my stories mean and I can articulate them, it is much easier for me to have a deeply connected conversation with someone to say this is why I am this way, or this is why I react this way when X, Y, and Z happens. But until I put language to that, I'd maybe look like a crazy person for most of my life or bursting into tears for no reason, or maybe for good reason, right?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, totally. I think that's right. And I'm just grateful that we had the space to be able to do that and then move into condition three, which is capacity, where we stay with ourselves without abandoning ourselves. So this is where I believe the deepest transformation lives. And it's also the most misunderstood. Capacity doesn't mean not feeling overwhelmed, it means staying connected to yourself while emotion still exists. We practiced at the retreat what I call pendulation, and I shared about that when I did this podcast episode specifically, moving gently between what feels activated and what feels supported. The key line that I kept returning to was the goal is not to never feel pain. The goal is to not leave yourself inside of it, which I think is really crucial. And so, Jen, I'd I'd like to ask you this question What does self-abandonment look like for you? And was there a moment during the retreat where you caught yourself doing it and then chose to stay with yourself?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think self-abandonment for me is um disappearing and minimizing my needs. And definitely during the retreat, I was I was uncomfortable, but I chose to stay in the discomfort. And it was really hard for me. I mean, the whole reason I went to the retreat is Jeremy and I were talking, and I was telling him I go to a therapist, but I never talk about myself. I only talk about my kids. And he always asked me what I'm doing for myself, and I never have an answer. So anyway, just the whole retreat made me stay and think about my feelings and not abandon them.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, and you were really brave, Jen, because y'all, this was the first time she'd ever done anything like this. And it's it was such an honor to be a part of. I think one of the things that I want to highlight too, something that Liz said is we invited sharing. That's important to understand. It's an invitation. It wasn't something we forced, we invited it. And if somebody didn't feel comfortable, they didn't have to. And honestly, that in and of itself was information for them. And so, really, really cool to be able to, I'm getting the chills thinking about it, just watching you, Jen, having to to really kind of stick with yourself. I felt that angst within you. And yet it was so brave, the the work that you did. So thank you so much for putting your faith in us to be able to take you there. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. So, Mike, as the person who asked for this in the first place, um, what shifted when you realized the goal wasn't to fix anything, but to just stay with yourself?

SPEAKER_02

I'm not sure that anything shifted inside of me for that, because again, I had opportunity to learn or be taught all of that long previously. I remember some amount of probably awe watching you and Liz accomplish in hours what it took me months to learn. And I I don't expect that the the Cliff Notes version that came out in hours will probably land the same way that the month's worth has for me, but that it lands at all is just amazing.

SPEAKER_07

That's amazing to hear and encouraging. So I'm glad that it had that kind of impact. Thank you, Liz, my friend. How does the migrating toward wholeness framework support what I think of as the return? It was that whole idea that I had you return and you return and you continue returning, because there's that moment when we begin to in-source our truth rather than outsourcing it. So, how does your framework relate to this whole idea of increasing capacity and returning back to yourself?

SPEAKER_06

Well, the process is a wheel and it's intentionally a wheel because all of the five core principles are constantly in motion when we engage in the process. And the framework is a return to self because every time we return to the page and we put pen to paper and we start to work with any of the prompts that I gave for folks that were part of the retreat. And then the follow-up suggestions that were pulled directly from conversations that we had together and what folks chose to share from their initial pieces of writing. That there's a constant returning to self every time you decide to sit down and write and stay with yourself in that process. It's and that's how I was able to develop it because I realized when I went back to all of the journals of poetry that I had been keeping since I was 14 years old, how much of myself I hadn't realized needed to be heard and seen and understood. And so the framework, the migrating toward wholeness framework, is an invitation to continually return to the self, as I said a few minutes ago, have a dialogue with the self, with all of the selves that has existed over time, right? Because we're not just one version of ourselves, and there's still that little person that lives inside of all of us that is the scared, terrified one that still shows up and is like, well, wait a minute, you know, and being able to return to that little self and say, No, I've got you. That's how the framework is supports the return and the insourcing because it also becomes a habit, right? One of the one of the seven, one of the connected seven parts of trauma healing that we address in the framework and the process is habitual healing. And that is it's connected to also capacity, right? So the capacity to sit with what difficult emotions might be arising in what's coming up in our writing and stay with that and continue to write through it, and gives us a tool that we can then use to regulate. In fact, I was just having a conversation with my one of my one-on-one clients this morning about exactly the same thing that the return to the writing when you feel activated is a regulation tool. And it gives you the ability to choose a path forward and to stay with what's happening instead of doing the thing that so many of us are so good at, which is sometimes it's numbing, sometimes it's running really far and fast. Whatever you're and what's what I like to call a default trauma state. Whatever your default trauma state is, it helps it helps us to not abandon ourselves and to stay with what's true. And then the more we do that, we look at this is a habit that sustains me and supports me, and I'm gonna keep doing it. And it becomes a healthy habit instead of any of the other unhealthy things that we might have done, you know, previous versions of ourselves might have chosen. We now get to choose differently.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, exactly. Yep, that's beautifully said. Thank you so much for sharing that. So as we begin to increase our capacity, it begins to increase our ability to connect with ourselves and with others, but belonging starts inside with us. So connection is the condition that we long for the most, I think, as adopted people, but we also fear it the most. We shape shift for it, we perform for it. What our weekend offered, I think, was something different. It was this experience to begin to connect internally and then learn how to extend it externally, outward. The co-regulation practices that we did at the retreat, the synchronized breathing, the grounding in pairs, they were gentle on purpose. It was to learn what it felt like to mirror your own breathing or another person's breathing. It was really, really beautiful to watch. So, Jeremy and Jen, I want to start with you. How did that experience of being witnessed by a room full of adoptees and each other when you did the exercises, people who actually understood, feel different from anything else in your lives?

SPEAKER_01

It's like we are already connected and we didn't need a translation. We already have an understanding, and uh it was disarming to have him there and uh we finally kind of let go of feeling like we're misunderstood.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_01

That's how I felt.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I think that's valid. How about you, Jeremy?

SPEAKER_00

Well, to contrast it to another experience that I'd had, I think 12 years ago I had a a weekend seminar that included some similar exercises, but it was just a group of random people who signed up. We were all students, all college students. And I found some some fellow adoptees in the group, but for the most part, there was nothing in common. We had nothing in common. And and so I think that that just removed a layer of uh or maybe not a layer, maybe an obstacle, removed an obstacle for getting uh an immersive experience in in the practices because I didn't feel like there was any need to explain myself where I was coming from, just that immediate understanding. Being in the room with other adoptees and doing these drowning techniques was I don't know.

SPEAKER_07

What I heard was there was a a safety, and you even said that, Jeremy, when when we first introduced ourselves, it was one of the things that Liz and I reflected on later that night was that you mentioned it was the three words. I don't know if you remember, and one of those words was, I feel safe. And I just remember in that moment feeling like, okay, we can go home. We've done what we needed to do here. And I think that's kind of the point you were making is there was this feeling of safety, which allowed you to feel understood and co-regulate easier because of the fact that you didn't feel like you had to present yourself any other way than you, than how you were, how you felt in that moment.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. And safety and security is something that I didn't realize I didn't have until a few years ago when I started actually investigating adoption and its effects on individuals. So to feel safe without explanation or without having to convince myself or use any sort of techniques that I may have learned to feel safe in a room of strangers is kind of a big deal.

SPEAKER_07

It's a huge deal for an adopted person. So thank you. It was an honor. Jill, my friend, the workbook talks about the words written on your body, the ones you've been carrying so long, you forgot that they were even there. Did any of those start to shift over the weekend for you?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so I I think of an analogy. So summertime as a kid, we put up a card table and we put out a puzzle. And one little piece at a time, just one little piece, and then go run outside and ride your bike for a little while and come back in. And sometimes it would take a month to put that one puzzle together, and that's all of us kids putting our little pieces together. So that was kind of what this was like. It was very subtle, it wasn't just all of a sudden, it was just the snap of another piece and the snap of another piece, and it kind of like we talked about it. The door was open, and then all of a sudden there's this possibility, and then all of a sudden I have tools I didn't have before. And it was a very subtle shift, but it was definitely a shift. And then I think about Mike's analogy with the grains of rice, and so I'm waiting for that. But then I'll have tools to start doing it again. Like the shifting, I think, is gonna be forever. I don't know why, I just think I'm always gonna be shifting towards something.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I think you're right. And I think just to give a picture to everybody, if you are watching on video or not, I'll try and describe it. But the incremental shifts that Jill is talking about, one of the things that I had shown people was like, let's pretend you have a scale and one side is heavy with rice and the other side doesn't have any rice on it. And you take one little grain when you make a shift and you clink it onto the other side. And as you make these incremental shifts, that begins to move. And that's where the transformation begins to happen. That's what she's describing. And these incremental shifts, the work that we do, the building the capacity in the way that we do is so So gradual and so slow and so gentle that by the end of it, it's almost as if you didn't realize something occurred. And so it's it's beautiful to watch and to witness. So thank you, Jill, for describing that. I appreciate that so much. So, Liz, what happens in a room when multiple adopted people are simultaneously finding language for the same unnamed thing? When that happens, it's uh give me a minute.

SPEAKER_06

All of a sudden the words are not coming out. It's okay. Yeah. So when when a room full of adoptees starts to find language for the exact same thing, it's profound because it's like a big giant light bulb goes off, and everyone's like, oh, I am not the only one. I'm not alone. Or someone finds the language and then someone else is like, yeah, I just wrote about the same thing. I didn't quite describe it the same way, but that's exactly what I'm talking about too. And then everybody, then we start to make those connections. We make the connections to our own stories, but we make the connections to one another too. And that's the catalyst for the healing moment, right? Or the migration toward wholeness. That's why it's called migrating toward wholeness because we're always in constant motion. We're always moving toward a greater sense of wholeness, which for me is what healing is about. And so when a room full of adoptees starts to put fine language for the same exact internal experience, it's like all of us, we complete the puzzle that Jill just talked about. All of a sudden we see the full picture and we're like, oh, okay, now I can start to do something with this because now I know I'm not alone in this feeling. And we just had this whole shared exchange. And I've had it happen in groups where someone shares a piece of writing that so perfectly describes the thing that every other person has been writing about and grappling with and talking about. And then it's now we have an image, we have language, we have words, we have a shared vocabulary. And now I can explain not only to myself what this has meant over the course of my life, but I can explain this now to other people.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, absolutely. There's something really beautiful about that. And you, without even realizing it, use the word connection multiple times, which I find funny because that's what we were talking about. Uh so the next condition is consistency. This is the small repeated returns that I have talked about, that we've talked about. This is where I try to differentiate from what I call the retreat high. And it's so funny when I first brought this word up, Jeremy outwardly moaned. Sorry, I don't mean to call you out, but that's what happened. He was like, uh, I don't like that word. And I would love to hear from you when I when I call on the whole group of what that was like for you. But healing isn't just one breakthrough. It isn't uh just one retreat, right? It's not just one emotion. It's these repeated, safe returns to yourself, the tiny practices you can actually sustain. And in the closing of all of this, I invited everyone to name their one next step. What is the one next thing that you will do? Something believable that your body won't call BS on, that your nervous system can sustain. And so, Mike, it's been in the recording right now, it's been just over two weeks since the retreat. What has actually stuck for you? What is the small practice that you have returned to?

SPEAKER_02

So I don't think it's a small practice. In the weeks leading up to the retreat, I have had journaling as a tool and I had been trying to do it less. And what I wanted in my head was to be able to do that process in my head on the fly and not have to sit down and actually take the time and the effort to write or type and read and whatever else. And I think what I discovered is there is no substitute, and so I have been back to it, not as an everyday practice, but I have been far more attuned to when I need to, and rather than try and work around that, just go and do it because it is good for me.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. And I will say, from working with Mike for the amount of time that I have, when we first started working together, hope you don't mind, man. I'm I I just called the two dudes out on this call. But but when but when we first started working together, Mike didn't want to have anything to do with journaling. As a matter of fact, it had a huge aversion to it. And so hearing him speak about how journaling has been such an impact for him is really, really cool for both Liz and I to hear that that is something that has become really a consistent practice for you. So that's really cool. Thanks, Mike. Uh okay, Nicole, my friend. The workbook that Liz gave us offers a daily practice called the five-minute return. Have you used it? And what has coming back to yourself looked like in your ordinary life?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I would say that we have there's so many tools that we were given within this retreat. So, full honesty here, I have not used the that particular tool. But I will say that I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think right now it's a tool that I have in my back pocket that I can come back to. And I think for me it's identifying what I need within this particular moment. So um, I think within the last couple weeks, it's maybe not been something that I have used right now, but I think I will definitely like come back to it. For me, I think it's been a lot more about connecting with others. And I I journal constantly. I love writing, but sometimes writing is so different than communicating and saying it out loud. So I think there's sometimes it's just practicing saying something out loud, and whether that's in a virtual adoptee space or maybe it's a phone call with another adopted person, or I think what I have really started practicing is what do I need within this moment? I think so so often um society teaches us that you're like selfish to put yourself first in some ways. And I think the best thing that we can do is put ourselves first in order to be able to show up for others as well. So I guess that's what I'll stick with.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. Yeah. So that's what you've brought back to your coming home to self-practice is being able to connect to other people. And that could be popping in and sending me a voice memo here and there, which you've definitely done, and I've enjoyed that very much. I'm grateful for that. So this is for the whole group, and I will probably just call on you each. But what's one thing you're no longer available for? Meaning you no longer are allowing in your life who wants to go first.

SPEAKER_04

Jill, what are you no longer available for? I am no longer going to be the one chasing if it's not mutual, if it's not both of us wanting the connection, peace out. Because I've spent my whole life chasing uh people pleasing, making myself small and contorting like a pretzel. No more, no more pretzel Jill. Um I got plenty of friends, y'all. I made some new ones, you guys here, and I don't need those people. If they don't want to be with me, then peace out. And I wish them well. No bitterness either. Enjoy yourself. I wish you the best life.

SPEAKER_07

Love that. Uh anyone else? What is one thing you're no longer available for?

SPEAKER_02

I am almost just like that. I am no longer available to throw myself at people whose need I can identify and maybe meet, hoping they might reciprocate. It's essentially the same thing in different words.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. Okay, cool. Thanks, Mike. Anyone else? What's one thing you're no longer available for? Go ahead, Jen.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, just not thinking about myself ever. I need to work on myself. I'm no longer available to um abandon myself.

SPEAKER_07

Amen, sister. I love that so much. So, one thing you're actively reclaiming is not abandoning yourself anymore. That's what you would say. Exactly. Awesome. I love that. Let's make it short. That's beautiful. I love that. Nicole or Jeremy, either one of you, what is one thing you're no longer go ahead, Nicole, you're no longer available for.

SPEAKER_05

Sure. I think I would say that I'm really done masking. I think for me, you can either join me in this journey and support me, or you can step aside.

SPEAKER_07

So love that. That's beautiful. Jeremy, do you have any? It's okay if you don't.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I would say that I'm no longer available for ignoring what my body's trying to tell me. I I've so many insights through the retreat that had to do with where things are in my body that and talking about the vagus nerve and how it's related to the chakras. And the chakras are what, 3,000 years old? Conversations about the chakras. That's been around. And I've always dismissed it as woo-woo or um what have you, but I feel like from my experiences over that that weekend, that retreat, that I'm no longer available for ignoring or distracting myself from what's going on.

SPEAKER_07

I love that. It's beautiful. So then was I don't know if you want to share what is one thing that you are no longer available for.

SPEAKER_06

I would I think this has been a gradual process over time, but I'm no longer available for people, places, or things that are not in alignment with my values and my need for authenticity.

SPEAKER_07

Totally hear that. I would honestly feel completely the same. Mine is a little bit differently worded. I would say that I'm no longer available for those who are not willing to accept my lived experience. If you can't accept that, then we're not gonna actually get along, and that's not going to be aligned with what I'm moving towards. So so I feel very similar there too. So lastly, uh, for this specific section, we already heard Jen is actively reclaiming being with herself. She's no longer going to abandon herself. So now what I want to hear is what are you guys actively reclaiming after this retreat? Go for it, Nicole.

SPEAKER_05

Sweet. Okay. I would say for me, I am learning to be comfortable with the unknown and learning to be okay with the phrase, I don't know, is a perfectly acceptable answer. Because I mean searching for an answer is draining. So sometimes it's it's okay to not have the answers.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, very true. I love that. Okay, what are we actively reclaiming, y'all? I think Mike was unmuted and then yeah, go ahead, Mike.

SPEAKER_02

So I am learning and not just learning, but choosing who I am. And I'm gonna call that actively reclaiming agency. And I am not available to be shaped to someone else's purposes any longer.

SPEAKER_07

Love that. That's awesome. Anyone else? What are we actively reclaiming? My voice.

SPEAKER_04

I lost my voice along the way, and uh so now I would have never put my name. I would have been alias. I was alias for five years uh out on the internet, and so yeah, I'm reclaiming my voice. And uh you can speak your truth without being ugly about it and just say what needs to be said and uh and not choke on your words.

SPEAKER_07

So good. Thanks, Chill. Anything you want to add, Jeremy? What you're actively reclaiming?

SPEAKER_00

I am I'm reclaiming an interest in a pursuit to find authenticity. I think that one of the things that that this experience and and even just meeting with you all again, that it's reminding me that I don't have this fully formulated. It's you don't have to it's still in its infancy, incubating. Anyway, I've always really valued anything authentic and as an adoptee I don't know how to be authentic myself.

SPEAKER_03

And so I'm reclaiming the hope that I can get there.

SPEAKER_07

I believe you can because honestly, Jeremy, who you were at the retreat was that you were very authentic. And it was a really big thing for for us to witness. Because I know there were some things that were hard for you, and you made that very clear, and we were like, that's information. That's totally fine. So you are held right where you are, and we're just glad that you're still here with us for sure. Thanks for showing up. So okay, y'all. If you could say, we're gonna try and wind this up because we're at time here, but if if you could say one thing to an adoptee who is on the edge of this work, is curious but protecting themselves from hoping for too much, what would you say to them, Jen? What would you say to an adoptee who is on the edge of this work?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'm on the edge of this work myself. So this is pretty easy to answer. You just it just I think has to be done when you're ready. It's okay to go slowly and uh when it's the right time for you. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, love that. Thank you so much. Jill, how about you? What would you say to an adoptee who's on the edge of this work?

SPEAKER_04

All right, corny as it sounds, I learned I'm half Canadian. So I'm going with the Wayne Gretzky quote. You miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. And you've already survived the worst thing that could happen to human relinquishment and being torn away from your mother. So take the shot, you will get through it. No matter the outcome, it may not be what you expect, it may be better than you expect, but you can do anything. And you, as my friend Willow said, if keep going, Julie, that way you know you've done all you can do and you won't have any regrets.

SPEAKER_07

Mm-hmm. Beautifully said. Love that. How about you, Mike? What would you say to an adoptee on the edge of this work?

SPEAKER_02

I think what I run into when I talk to people on the edge now is the the fear of the pain and the vulnerability involved in this. And the pain is real and the vulnerability is hard. And what comes on the other side of it is more than well worth it. And even talking to you and Liz, I felt like I was less than for having to be taught how to to do this, and y'all explain that in the process of learning you got taught as well. And I think that's the proof that we can all get to the other side of it and learn to be ourselves, and it is it's well worth it. Take the take the risk.

SPEAKER_07

Thanks, Mike. Jeremy, you're unmuted. How about you? What would you say?

SPEAKER_00

I would say be kind to yourselves that no matter where you're at in the process, you will find uh others who can relate to you where you are.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, very, very true. Thanks, Jeremy. How about you, Nicole? What would you say to an adoptee on the edge?

SPEAKER_05

I would say that there's you don't have to have all the right language. There is no right language. And if anything, I believe that we all each of us have our own lived experience, and I think we all trust each other for that experience. And yeah, I think all emotions are welcome too, because I think that's the hardest part is you feel like you have to be composed, but to be in a space where it's welcome is so healing. Hmm.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, that's so true. So I'm gonna put you all on alert. We're going to do what we did at the end, the couple of exercises, so you're prepared. I think I told you guys when I sent you and prepared you, but I'm gonna prepare you now, and then I'm gonna ask Liz her question, and then we're gonna do popcorn, and I'm gonna call on you and you're gonna say this. So the closing round is what are the three words for your body right now? Okay, so be prepared with those. Liz, what is next for unmothered and migrating toward wholeness, and where can people find you in this work?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, so what is next uh for unmothered and migrating toward wholeness? Migrating toward wholeness, I have ongoing monthly virtual retreats for adoptees that um will pick back up again later this summer, so late August. I will be launching a small group coaching program that will also start in August for the fall, and there'll be two cohorts, one in the fall and one in the spring. Then I am always interested in talking with folks about working together one-on-one. Lots of folks find it really beneficial to have the one-on-one relationship before they enter into any of the other group activities. And then sometimes it works the other way. Sometimes folks will start with the retreats or the group coaching and then decide, oh, I want to go deeper and we want to do one-on-one. So those things are always available in the ecosystem. There's also always a monthly free drop-in circle that anyone in the adoption constellation is welcome to join. And for Unmothered, I am in some conversations with an organization and they might be performing live in November in LA. So stay tuned for the official announcement about that. But it looks pretty good that that will be happening. So that'll be that's pretty cool. But people can watch the film anytime on my website, and that's where people can find me on my website, lizdebada.com.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah. And I'll definitely put that in the show notes. And y'all, Liz and I are definitely doing this retreat again. Yeah. Okay. We just needed to take a little bit of a break, but it is going to happen. So just you can't really mark your calendar yet because we haven't really solidified the date, but it's happening, just so you know. So that's gonna be really cool. Okay, closing round. Three words for your body right now. Jill, go.

SPEAKER_04

Relax, believe peace.

SPEAKER_07

Love it, Nicole. Content, hope, and so feel. Oh, love it. Jen, how about you? Uh healing, open, and present. Oh, that's beautiful. Love that. Thank you, Jen. How about you, Mike?

SPEAKER_03

Grateful, hopeful, and content.

SPEAKER_07

Too content. Love that. How about you, Jeremy?

SPEAKER_00

Well, to make that too grateful, um, curious, and calm.

SPEAKER_07

Oh, I love that. Calm is like the best word ever. Well, you guys, thank you so much. I'm gonna go ahead and close this out. Stay with us just for a little bit, but belonging is not a destination that you earn, it's a relationship you slowly build with yourself. If anything you heard today moved something in you, maybe it was a tightening, maybe there was an ache, a warmth, a recognition. That isn't by accident. That's your body telling you it already knows the way home. If you're an adopted person who's ready for the next layer of your healing, whether that's working with me through the seven-phase belonging blueprint or going deeper into narrative work with Dr. Liz through migrating toward wholeness, or simply starting with the post-retreat workbook that Liz has given us all, every link will be in the show notes for y'all to look at. So to Mike, I just want to say thank you for asking. Sometimes the bravest thing simply to do is to say I want more of this. And to Jill, Nicole, to Jeremy, and Jen, thank you for your stories, for staying in the room, and for trusting the process. And to Dr. Liz, my sister from Another Mr. Thank you for being brave enough to make the thing that opens other people up. The language you found belongs to all of us now. More stories, more connection, more connection, more healing. And I'll see you guys next Thursday. Peace.