Episode 4 The Trusted Advisor Partnership Featuring Luke Struckman, Regan Ferguson & Shawn Catherwood

In this episode, we sit down with the facilitators and creators behind the Trusted Advisor Partnership (TAP) program—a forward-thinking initiative designed to equip agriculture professionals with the knowledge and tools needed to lead in soil health and regenerative agriculture.

We dig into the origins of TAP and the gap it was built to fill, exploring why empowering trusted advisors—agronomists, consultants, and industry professionals—is critical to driving meaningful change on the farm. The conversation unpacks what the program actually looks like in practice, from its blend of science-based learning and real-world application to how participants engage with both foundational principles and cutting-edge agronomic strategies.

You’ll hear a breakdown of the course structure, what participants can expect throughout the program, and how TAP balances technical depth with practical, field-level relevance. We also look ahead to the future of the program—how it plans to evolve alongside the rapidly changing sustainability landscape—and who stands to benefit most from being involved.

Finally, we explore what long-term success looks like: not just for the individuals who take part, but for the broader agricultural system. From stronger advisor-producer relationships to measurable improvements in soil health and farm resilience, TAP is aiming to create lasting impact where it matters most.

Whether you’re an agronomist, retailer, consultant, or simply interested in the future of sustainable agriculture, this episode offers a grounded, insightful look at a program built to move the industry forward.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

So, welcome to episode four of the Collective Impact Podcast. Today I'm very excited to be joined by members of the TAP team. So if you haven't heard of the TAP program, we are going to get all the details that you need to know about it and learn a little bit more of why you should consider being involved if it's an opportunity for you. So let's start with introductions. I'll start with Regan Ferguson. Regan, if you want to just introduce yourself and we'll move around to Luke and Sean and just tell us a little bit about yourself, your involvement in the program, what you do away from the program. And if you have a fun fact you'd like to share, please feel free to share that.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

We fully grain farm and have been trying to make positive change impact on our farm, which has really played into this role this the TAP program. Fun fact about myself, I am a huge horse enthusiast. And after starting with my young kids, I've just now invested back into the horse industry. So excited for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

I think investing when it comes to horses is absolutely the key word there. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Luke, do you want to introduce yourself? Uh yeah. I'm a consultant based in Edmonton, and the focus of my work is um soil health management research uh and training. Um I've done policy work in the past as well in around soil management. Um and my role in TAP is that I'm project lead, so I kind of do everything in the background to make sure that Sean and Regan have what they need to um you know make material materials and and and deliver the course. Um and a fun fact about myself, um, I like to build my own garden hand tools. Um so mostly just modifying existing tools, but um I hope at some point where I could start um forging you know my own my own tools.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

That uh that is an interesting fact. What's what's the invention of creation you're you're most proud of?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Oh, that's a that's a good question. Um well it started out kind of as a COVID project, but um yeah, I built uh or modified like a tree planting tool um to be able to plant um vegetable seedlings really quickly.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Oh awesome. Good to know. And those those aren't available on Amazon, correct?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, no, exactly. Exactly. It was kind of I was just um kind of got to the point of not being satisfied with what was available um yeah, you know, in in the big box stores or hardware stores.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

So awesome. Well, thanks for that, and welcome, uh, welcome to the podcast. Sean Catherwood will uh we'll move over to you next.

SPEAKER_05 3:47

Thanks, Chris. So yeah, I uh have a similar role as Regan, so the lead agronomist, but I cover, I guess, the southern Saskatchewan geography. So um, same kind of role as helping with content creation and delivering on the educational piece of this. Um then me and Regan both try to flex kind of some of our expertise, um, and obviously geographically as well. So, you know, trying to bring um things to the table that we see in the southern regions where it's a little drier and earlier season, things like that, just different cropping systems. Um, so we feed off each other that way really nicely, which works well. Um, and then yeah, so aside from TAP, a uh fifth generation farmer, um, grain farm primarily, but we are actively getting involved in livestock, um, as plays into one of the soil health principles, of course. We've been implementing region egg type activities for I would say five years now. Um, and the last two years have been full scale across our farm, um, doing things like intercrops and cover crops and all that kind of fun stuff. Uh, my background today is an oat and lentil intercrop that we tried last year as part of a trial. And so, yeah, we're just doing a lot of research, I guess, on our on our farm, which then feeds into our other business, which is consulting, um, kind of oriented around how to implement these soil health principles. Our bread and butter is cover crop adoption, I guess, and how to help other farmers with that on farm as well as well as intercrops and stuff like that. Um, so yeah, that's uh I guess a bit about me. A random fun fact. Um, this is a super random one, but there's uh I could probably compete for the world record for the amount of one-handed claps in a minute. So I can one-hand clap and no, I will not do it on video for you guys right now, but I have timed myself before because there is a world record for that, and I'm right neck and neck with the guy, so maybe I should do that someday.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Excellent. This is uh back-to-back podcasts where I think we've had someone uh brag about uh competing with a world record. Uh our last podcast. Oh, really? Um our last podcast individual bragged about how many times he's had to move over his over his lifetime. So yeah. Glad uh glad to learn a little bit more about you. I thought you would I thought you would talk about your goaltending abilities and and that you're you know potentially available for another run at a cup for a desired senior team here in Saskatchewan in the upcoming season. I thought that's maybe where you would go.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

I thought about going that way, but I kind of feel like retiring, so I decided not to talk about hockey.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Fair enough. Fair enough. Well focus on the other talent. Good good choice. Well, just to learn a little bit more about the program, I I think it's always important to understand the why and you know, why where something has come from, um, you know, what was what need it was trying to fill. So, Luke, maybe I'll throw it to you. Can you tell us about the creation of the TAP program? You know, where did the idea come from? Uh, and and really what are the needs that the program is trying to address?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah, thanks for the question, Chris. Um, so really um the Canadian Prairies Tap Um project is um adapting the approach that was developed in in North Dakota, which is now Northern Plains TAP. That got to start in 2021. Um and there was a need in in North Dakota um around um you know providing locale-specific soil management knowledge. Um and it just there's just wasn't a good avenue for doing this. Um, you know, going from farmer to farmer, it was realized that that was that was just um effective but often too slow. And so it thought that like the the um organization and individuals behind it thought that if they um went to crop advisors, they'd be able to have a much broader impact and much more quickly rather than working directly with farmers. Um and once that got its start, yeah, in in I think mid-2021, um there was some large food and beverage companies, specifically PepsiCo, that that um saw the merits of that approach um and thought that it could be adapted to um the Canadian prairies. Uh and so starting in in late 2022, um I started working with Sustainable Food Lab. Regan came on board not too long after that, so she's one of the uh original um uh people of Canadian Prairies Tech, along with me. Um Sean came along in July of 2024. Uh and so yeah, the the kind of the gap that we're filling is there's just a lack of locale specific, science-based um soil health knowledge that's available to to prairie producers. And and so TAP obviously can't you know fill that gap on its own, um, but it's it it it it's it's part of the solution um and it complements other other efforts.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Interesting. So is is the model very much based on what's but been done in North Dakota, or is is a lot of the content you know specific for Canada, um where you've just sort of taken the framework and then put the Canadian context on it?

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah, the the structure and approach is similar. I wouldn't say it's it's the same. Um and content, we've developed all new content for the prairies. We started out thinking that we could you know reuse some of the North Dakota content. And then as we reviewed the North Co North Dakota curriculum, we realized um that even though there's a lot of similarities, um the commodity production systems, especially like grain production, are just too different. Um, you know, even though uh North Dakota borders both both Manitoba and Saskatchewan, um again, the the commodity production systems are just too different to be able to you know directly use materials from from North Dakota.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

So, you know, we we talk and and I have lots of conversations with producers um about why regenerative agriculture is is really starting to it's it's coming to the forefront and it's part of a lot of different conversations, even if, you know, even at times when when producers don't really realize it. Uh I guess with in in terms of what you're seeing across the the landscape here in in Canada, you know, why why does now feel like a great time to have this launched or you know, an exciting time for this program really to be coming coming to the forefront and becoming mainstream?

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Well, I think um it's exciting because we do have, you know, uh both we have support um across nonprofits, we have support um in in with large TPG companies, um, we have increasing policy support, um, at least from a very from a very high level. Um and so I think though that support will continue, um, but as far as timing goes, I mean, I think soil health management has been an issue since if you go back to the um beginning of of commodity production systems on the prairies. Um and so like I think it's always a good time to to integrate um soil health management into production systems. And it just happens that we do have support now, but it could have been done, you know, and it has been done in various ways in the past. But um yeah, like I think there's uh there's always a good time to to take a soil health management approach in in your production systems.

SPEAKER_05 11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

That's fair.

SPEAKER_05 11:53

Oh sorry, Chris. No, go ahead, Trump. There's a lot of appetite too from like the farm gate level. Um, I've noticed the last couple years, and you know, I just put my one farmer hat on, and I find this kind of next wave of the generation coming into grain farming and in Saskatchewan or Western County as a whole, a lot of them are at a crossroads right now. It's kind of this, you know, margins per acre have been getting thinner the last few years. As we all know, the cost of of goods has gone pretty high, and um, other than us selling our grain, that's gone down the last couple years, and people are feeling that pinch a little bit. So, even just from an economic standpoint, um, find a lot of young young farmers, young-ish farmers, I guess you'd say, are, you know, okay, we got either got to get big, bigger to or to make money, or we need to diversify and look at how we manage this a little bit differently. Um, and I think that alone is driving some appetite to to start paying more attention to soil health um and how we can continue to produce high-quality, productive crops with maybe reducing some of that that input load. Um, that is on the forefront of a lot of people's minds right now. So I think the timing with that and the excitement, it's all kind of coming together pretty nicely that way. So opportunities um, you know, can sometimes show up in difficult times, and maybe that's what this might be.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah, and that's that's definitely the conversation we're having with producers, um, is you know, is is about the margins and and just the economics of today's agriculture. So uh it's not surprising that there's that tie-in. Um, Regan, anything you wanted to add to that as well?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Um yeah, I was just gonna say like technology um advancements and even like for our ability to share experiences and stuff um online, um, just technology and facets that way have really opened a big door enabled enabling us to spread the word and learn off of others' experiences a lot easier than maybe 20 years ago. Um, so I feel that that also has been um a huge uh advancement uh for all farmers uh that have maybe considered it or wondered, you know, how can I make this change on my farm? And without uh maybe reducing a little bit of risk by learning off of other people and what they have done and what has worked and what hasn't worked, um, for them to be able to implement those changes on their own farms in more a more competent way.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yeah, the technology piece is is interesting, um, both in terms of the the delivery of the program, but you know, in in terms of the content itself, um how how much how much does technology play in in terms of the content or you know, some of the different things that that the the course covers is is that you know is that uh evolving or at the forefront now, or is it is it really just focusing on um the the soil health aspects and and some of those, you know, some of those core principles?

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah. Um the the course does touch on technology. Um it doesn't go in depth into it, but we feel that technology has a huge factor in this in being able to track change and how do we how do we see that change? Um so utilizing because most firms these days have um data that they're collecting. So how can we utilize that data and the technology available to us to learn from what we are doing, from the changes we are doing and how they are helping advance um what our goal is in the end?

SPEAKER_05 15:58

Yeah, I find too a common theme with this TAP program so far through our three cohorts has been, you know, when we get on our weekly Zoom calls and stuff with the group, and um I find a lot of it surrounded, it's almost like the marriage of precision egg and region egg comes together in TAP a little bit. Um we talk a lot about how we can use precision egg tools, you know, like for fertility management that we have out there with um with mapping capabilities and variable rate technology, all that kind of stuff, and how that can be leveraged to and used within the soil health principles. So even though I don't have like a module itself on precision egg, it's touched on throughout every single module that we talk about, um, which was to be honest, like when I was creating content, that wasn't like part of my plan. Um, I don't know if it was for I think more so for Regan. I think she definitely played more into that, but it just naturally has evolved that way too throughout actually uh talking about the stuff with uh with the agronomists that come through the program, which is pretty neat.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Anything anything you wanted to add to that, Luke?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Um yeah, I think just uh support Sean's statement. Um yeah, I think there's a pretty big demand for um kind of practical approaches to precision agriculture um from the TAP participants. Um because there's a lot of of, or at least from my perspective, a lot of precision egg tools out there um that you know might be useful, but you know, someone may struggle um to figure out how to incorporate it in a practical way into production systems. And so I think there's there's again, this is my perspective, but participants see the value in precision approaches, but they're not always able to um find ways to incorporate that into their advising in practical ways. And so I think TAP does help with that.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Interesting. Um I guess to you know, to bring it back, you know, to bring it back to to the the initial question I'd asked about the why, and you know, just to get a a better understanding of the of the program itself, I'll I'll throw out a question here that you know I think it's to gets discussed or debated in agriculture and and the you know the definition of regenerative agriculture, and and obviously that's a a big word, it's a broad tent. In terms of the program, you know, how do you define regenerative agriculture? What's you know, what's the context within the training that you provide around what regenerative agriculture is?

SPEAKER_05 18:50

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Uh I don't know. Do you want to take it, Sean? Okay. So um I thought about this one too, because it's like like you said, Chris, it's kind of everybody's got kind of their own take at it. Um so we specifically don't define regenerative egg in our program. We do define soil health. Um but I think of um, I don't know, and I'm speaking on behalf of the others, but um the CAP take on it is um how can we utilize uh soil health principles to help sustain our land and try to make it better than it was last year or yesterday? So, what can we do for betterment of the land for the environment to keep moving forward? And how can we better utilize? Um we focus a lot on those low-producing areas, um, the easy to pick out pieces on the farms, and what is a better way of managing them? So I think in the context of regenerative agriculture and what does it mean to us, it's that's um trying to regenerate, retick that start, feed biology in the soil, get think about what's underneath the ground, and trying to essentially give rehab to to those soil areas on the farm that might not be the greatest, and then also sustaining those um those really good producing areas of the farm to make sure that it's there for future generations to take over.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Anything you wanted to add to that, Sean?

SPEAKER_05 20:45

Yeah, no, I think Regan answered that really well because that's such a tough question. I think even between the three, four of us on this call, we'd each have our own definition of regenerative agriculture and would differ a little bit. So that's why Regan made such a great point. We don't we try we purposely don't define it in the program. Uh you know, even when I used to work for PepsiCo and when I was there, they have their definition of region ag. So do other fruit companies. You know, every group's got their definition, and it just it's become this they're this buzzword um almost almost negatively at times. And so that's why we just stay away from trying to define that. But what I find is a common theme amongst all definitions I've ever seen is they're all related to the soil health principles. So that's why we really focus on those five, I guess now six is what everyone kind of agrees on with context. Um, and we really hammer those out. And at the end of the day, all those soil health principles are is just an observation of how nature kind of takes care of itself and what we've observed and how we can take a piece of that in an agricultural context so we can produce you know lots of food with those principles, um, but trying to follow what nature naturally does to a piece of land that would just get forgotten about and how it would heal itself. Um that's What the principles are in my mind. And I don't know, maybe it was it understanding egg that actually came out with the principles and kind of trademarked it. I don't even know that for sure. But I think everyone can kind of agree on those principles for the most part. Um now even defining each principle can be subjective at times, but I think they're uh it's just a little safer space to to leverage those and lean into those because they make sense to everyone when you dive into each one individually. Um so yeah, that's that's kind of our approach, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

So within the the program, um are there any specific production systems that you that you're targeting, or you know, is it is it focused or head weighted more towards cropping? How is how is livestock represented? You know, what is that what does that look like with inside the curriculum?

SPEAKER_04 22:58

Luke, maybe I'll throw to you.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Okay, yeah. So really we focus on grain pulse and oilseed production. Um and we do we do have um some focus on livestock, but really we're trying, we're aiming for um yeah, grain, oil seed, and pulse producers, um, because that's where we're gonna have the most impact.

SPEAKER_05 23:23

Yeah, I'd say most of our participants are you know agronomists working, the farms they're working with primarily are grain solely. There might be a few mixed operations in there. Um and like Luke mentioned, we do have we do have one specific module on livestock integration, but it's in the context of integrating that livestock into a grain system. So the grain system still being the kind of the primary production system we're looking at. And so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

You mentioned um, you know, the agronomists and and and who they're working with, and and obviously that makes sense to to tailor the program towards um the students. So Regan, in in terms of, you know, in terms of the individuals that are are taking part in the program, is it is it mostly for new agronomists? Is it for you know experienced agronomists? Um is it a mix of both? What what's the you know, I I know that there's no ideal student, but you know, what what is what is the the makeup or the the enrollment typically look like?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Um the enrollment has been from very like just graduated all the way to uh those that have been doing it for 30 years. Um so it is a very uh wide variety of agronomists or new grads, uh scientists, well uh yeah, scientists, uh people that like are out of uh universities um also um have been gone through it. So it's uh it's really for anybody that is an agronomist wanting trying to support, trying to learn um how um how agronomists might be wanting to uh support their producers. Um and it's been quite refreshing having all of those walks of life a part of it, uh because you get the you get so many different viewpoints and take um questions off that uh somebody that is has been doing it for 30 years would never have thought of because the new the people that have never been experienced it or done it before, they have a completely different feeling or take on things. So it's um yeah, all the different questions and viewpoints on it have been absolutely remarkable and very refreshing. Um we do Zoom calls once a week uh during our um during our cohorts. And uh every every time we get off those those Zoom calls, we just always feel like we are so light in our shoes because it's very uplifting and the conversations are always so wonderful just because of that wide variety of um life experiences.

unknown 26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

So there's there's the phrase out there, train the trainer. I guess you know, I'm I'm curious as you talk about that, and I can I can tell how much you you truly enjoy that and are passionate about those conversations. You know, what is what is being a part of this program or you know, or leading this, like how much of how much have you learned just through, you know, and and we can go around everybody, but how much have you learned just through your interaction with those those agronomists and individuals from across you know the prairies and across Canada and the different experiences? Like that's you know, not only are you there to teach, but you know, given that you're all lifelong learners, that that has to be the um and an unintended benefit uh for you know for all of you as well. So you know, Sean, maybe starting with you um if you want to speak to that.

SPEAKER_05 27:08

Yeah, for sure. It's uh sometimes mean Regan will joke around a little bit early, even just speaking for myself. I don't like being considered the lead agronomist at times, like oh, I'm the teacher. Um doesn't feel that way at all when you're actually in the program. Yeah, okay, me and Regan made the content, we're the ones on the videos, we were walking the field showing things like how to use a penetrometer behind me, things like that. But the beauty in this whole program is the the collaboration or the kind of the peer-to-peer network that it does establish. So, you know, every week, Regan mentioned our weekly Zoom calls we have during the program. We uh it's not like it's just me and Regan sitting there trying to lecture everyone. Um we actually try to avoid that. We we do want to learn from the other people. And I know just again, speaking for myself, I've I've probably learned more from the discussions than what I feel like I'm offering to the whole program. And uh because I don't try and pretend to be an expert on anything. Um, I just wanted to provide some of my viewpoints from the field and you know what we're seeing with the trials we're doing, and just kind of observations that we've seen with the work that we've been up to. And that's exactly what what we've been trying to do with this program. We're not pretending to be experts of anything. Um, it's all about bringing like-minded but also different um viewpoints. Like Regan mentioned, we've got kind of a mixed bag of agronomists that come through here, and that's awesome because that does sometimes create not arguments, but good back and forth about some of these practices. It gets you thinking outside of your bubble a little bit, like, oh yeah, I never thought of that um angle. And it's just at the end of it, I think it makes us all more well-rounded and thinking a little bit sharper about, you know, instead of just deploying this practice because it sounds cool, that's maybe think a bit think a little bit harder about it. And those tend to come up in our discussions, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Anything you wanted to add to that, Luke, just in terms of you know what you've learned or or been able to take away.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

Yeah. Um yeah, I've learned a lot about kind of the barriers that agronomists face when they're trying to implement a practice. And a lot of those barriers are around um knowledge gaps or experience gaps. And really, I think one of the strengths of TAB beyond the content that's been developed is that building a community of practice. And, you know, the idea is that we're we're building a soil health management community of practice with TAV. And, you know, if someone has a question, if someone runs into a problem, um, you know, when they're implementing new practices or thinking about implementing new practices, um, they've got a community of people that they can that they can um they can rely upon. Um and as far as yeah, learning, you know, I'm I I used to teach I taught university courses for 10 years, and really um what motivated me um in that work was that I got to learn, I got to continue learning um from students. And um, and that's really for me what motivates me with adult education and ongoing education is that everyone brings different experience and perspectives to the table. And you know, even though I'm not directly teaching, I still am participating in the course and and um and so really it's more of uh a dialogue versus you know, a it's not John and Regan, you know, just dictating, you know, this is this is what we're what what we're going to teach you, so sit and listen. It really is a dialogue. Um, and that's and that's what I find um motivating and interesting.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Awesome. Regan, round round off the question with your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

So I I have been or feel that I have benefited from it a huge amount. Um, and I do say off the start actually in the introduction of our chat program, um, that I am very excited about the program because like Sean said, we have been the ones that have done the videoing and creating the content. Um, but in that first introduction, I specifically state that I am super excited to learn from the group itself and from the network that it's going to produce. And that's exactly what it's done. Um, it's really opened up a lot of doors. Um, you feel that now we have those contacts, contacts that we can um phone or email uh that maybe spoke up on a conversation that had some um different information, for example, um on physical management, uh, somebody that had specific um info about um a scenario that they had inquired about. And it's just neat being able to lean on that network, which is what TAP has really been um the goal of TAP has been to have that going forward.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Excellent. And well, actually, we'll we'll come back to that, you know, later in the conversation, um, just to understand what that you know, what that that post course looks like in that that network, which I mean, any of us who've ever gone to school of any any type, that's that's one of the best part is those those connections that you make. So we'll come back to that. But um, Luke and and Sean, you know, uh Sean, you mentioned, you know, like-minded but different, and and Luke, you said, you know, different experiences and perspectives. Is there any, you know, is there any particular background or experience um that you found is is really beneficial for someone who's you know who's looking at taking the the TAP program? Um, you know, any specific characteristics that you know that if um you know if if you come into the program you you might want to work on or or do some you know do some research on before you get there if you if you don't have it already.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Um Sean, I can start with you.

SPEAKER_05 33:35

Yeah, sure. I was just thinking you know, I find um it's pretty uh wide open in the sense we are we want all kinds of uh experience and skill sets. The only real big uh requirement is that you come with an open mind um and willing to partake in conversations, be collaborative, um, engage, those kind of things. Because uh yeah, again, what we're trying to create here is this community of practice. Like I like that word, that phrase. And that's kind of the only real requirement I think we have. Um, so like sometimes we have people that come that have come through the the cohort and they have literally no field experience yet at all. They just graduated like a month ago. Um so but that's kind of cool because they're able to then be literally in the same call as someone who, like Regan mentioned, has 30 years of field experience, um, and there's that huge range. And I think that's actually it that in itself is the power behind this program. Um, you know, sometimes if you have a very specific course that's you know, dialing into like one specific thing, and all the people that go to take it are obviously all interested in that. And yeah, people that are taking tap are interested in soil health and how they can incorporate that into their everyday work, but there's just such a variety of people that come through that it it really spices things up for lack of a better word. Um, and it just brings so many different perspectives. And I don't know if that was even the goal when we were recruiting for people because we're just trying to find people, right? Um, to take this course originally, but that's just how it actually shook out. And now now that we've we've got three cohorts on our belt and we're recruiting for the fourth, it's kind of okay. Well, maybe let's try and get some diversity in here because it's it's worked really well for us so far. Um, so maybe that's something we pay attention to. So, you know, it's not just all sales agronomists or all agronomists, or all scientists, just to have those different perspectives in the room on purpose, I think, is at least something I'd like to see. It's worked really well.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah. It's it's interesting. Um, you know, you you talk about soil health and cropping systems and and the importance of diversity within that. And that's no different than when you're actually just learning about it and and the ability of, you know, the different strengths and and uh knowledge that everybody brings and and you know just why diversity's diversity is important, you know, whether it's in a field or you're in life or in a classroom. Um, you know, you need different different aspects and and different things from from everyone. So uh great point. So we we've talked a bit about you know why the program exists and and who it's for. Um I wouldn't I'd like to like to just do a little bit of a deeper dive in terms of what the program all involves and and some of the some of the um modules and or you know what that the curriculum looks like. So, you know, Regan, uh can you give us an overview of of what you know what that that curriculum involves? Um, what's some of the you know some of the major topics? I know obviously soil health is going to be one, but maybe just a deeper dive into that.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah. Yeah. Um so we have um 10 modules in total, and those modules will range from the beginner steps of the soil health fundamentals and um what those principles look like and showing examples of them on in farm. And then we move in to more modules that are um about zone-based management and intercropping, cover cropping, and really deep diving into what that looks like in specific scenarios on farm. Um there's fertility management um module and weed management. One that we have really worked on is the livestock integration um module. So um for anybody that's had no experience with livestock, we try to hit some high points and important points um for consideration for those producers that maybe have never had anything to do with livestock or the groners haven't had anything to do with livestock to give a really good um basic understanding of um specific important things that need to be considered um when trying to integrate that. And then we rounded out um with our final modules around um more on the professionalism side of things. And so it's like setting your management goals and networking, um, reviewing your plans with the producers, understanding the why, and how you can support them uh going forward. So that's just a really quick overview of what the actual course itself entails over. Um I think it's about an eight-week uh eight-week course. Um and it's all self-driven so um participants are able to log in and watch the content when they when they have time for it. Um there is um like a question um exam kind of after each module, um, just kind of to review the content that they have gone through. Um then we do the one week Zoom call, or yeah, every week we do a zoom call during those cohorts. Um and um do we also run those cohorts uh usually we've been doing two per year, uh one in the fall time and then also one in the winter time, uh trying to make it work for agronomists when times are maybe not so busy. So uh we do we don't teach one during the summertime just because we do understand that that is a very busy time for most of us.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

So excellent. I I appreciate that. Um going through all the the different steps and what's that all involved. Um Luke, you talked a little bit earlier about you know being uh being an educator. Um I think I think you can absolutely correct me if I'm wrong on this, but one of the you know, one of the challenges, you know, in education is always balancing that theory with the practical, you know, practical application. Um obviously everything that is being talked about is or a lot of what's being talked about is is you know, it happens in the field or you know, takes place in the field or the the contest context is in the field, but you know, it's it's online. So how how have you been able to bring that that real world, that field experience, you know, to the course uh through the program so that it's it's not just theory, it's it's very much practical knowledge and information.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah, so I think John and Regan probably can speak to this better than me, but just briefly, um I think the the custom content is really um where TAP shines is because it it there is a focus on practicalities um versus more um abstract soil science. It's really how do how do we make um how do we make things work and improve soil function in our fields, um, you know, using this array of tools that we have at our disposal. Um but yeah, I just I like I said I think Sean and Regan could answer that question better than me.

SPEAKER_05 41:39

Yeah, um I think too, like within each module that Regan was going over, we have different lessons within those modules. Um, you know, it can be three, four, even five lessons, and they all have their own little theme. And I find like at the very start of each module, we have like a little bit of theory, like what's the theory behind um fertility management as it relates to soil health or whatever the module is. Um but even when we're doing the theory, it's still practically based. So we instead of just like preaching about this module or this principle, it's more what are the benefits of it to a cropping system, to a crop rotation, to your land, whatever it might be. And then after we talk about that, then we actually jump right into like practical examples of how you can logistically manage inner crops and what does that look like going through the drill and like your tank splits and all that kind of stuff. Like we get down to the nitty-gritty, because I find that's a big educational missing link I find for a lot of agronomists is you know, lots of them do have some good farm experience, but some maybe don't. And um, it's just good to have or to have conversations around the extreme practicalities of this stuff. Because if it's not going to work on a farm practically, it could be the best practice in the world, but it's still not gonna happen because it doesn't fit into the operation logistically or economically or whatever it might be. Um so the the practicality behind all of this is uh I, in my opinion, the most important part of this program and why it's it is such a powerful place to learn about this stuff. Um and I think we do a pretty good job of trying to capture that through the videos we me and Regan did make. And but it's also just comes out through discussion, like those weekly Zoom calls we have, they are it's not a lecture, it's nothing like that. We literally just get together. Um me and Regan usually have a few things to prompt the group, but we just let it go and see where it goes, and we just have a discussion, and a lot of those get ironed out, um, even just through those discussions. Um so yeah, even though it's remote and no one's um we do try to get together once a year, I guess, but um it is impressive how much you can kind of grasp practically, even though it's you're sitting behind a computer screen. So I think we've done a pretty good job of that.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

So yeah. I was gonna say the theory is like a it's like a guideline that we use. Like we all we need that science-based fact-driven information. Um, so we utilize that theory as that guideline to guide us, but then like Sean said, that practicality of okay, this is the theory behind it. This is why it might work, and this is why it might not work. And these are the things that we need to consider to make it successful. Um, and so I think that there is a very strong tie between the two, but we also need to be very practical. And if we being practical will help um the farmers that we're supporting, um that adoption will be just that much more easier for them.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

100% agree with that. Um I wanted to come back. So Sean, you had mentioned you you get together in person um you know once throughout the year. What what does that look like? Is that uh is it a field day? Is it more of a a networking event? Probably it's probably a combination of of all the things, but I guess just you know, the the time where you do get together, what what does that look like?

SPEAKER_05 45:18

Yeah, so we have only done that once so far um since last summer is our uh end of the first cohort. So yeah, it's a combination of both. I think we try we had a full day meeting essentially, um, and we were able to get together. We had a bit of presentation stuff in the morning, sitting around a round table and having kind of roundtable discussions, um, going over some case studies that me and Regan had put together from our own farms. And so a bit of that theory, but then as kind of the day progressed, um, it kind of got more into the hands-on stuff, and we were able to get out to the field. Um, we had some soil scientists there. Um, we dug in the soil a little bit. I think our theme last year was kind of salinity management and stuff like that. So we were looking at different instruments that scientists use to measure salinity, and um, so that was pretty cool. You know, the grounds got together, we all got to meet each other in person for the first time. Well, not some people already knew each other, but like as this group, and uh, you know, eat together, talk together, and then go to the field and and kind of explore and look at some things together. So that was you know, I think we're gonna try and kind of stick to that for the most part, but every year every cohort will look a little different. I I think just each cohort brings a different kind of theme a little bit. They have different needs or different wants, and being able to be flexible on an annual basis with those, I think is is an important thing to keep in mind too.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

That uh yeah, I know that that sounds like a great time from yeah, just the ability to sit there and and you know, not only just work together and and be in the field together after after the joint experience you've had, I'm I'm sure that's a that's an experience that forges professional and personal friendships for for a lifetime. I mean it's it it's only in a year, but I would I would uh I'd wager on that, that you know, five years from now, just from that, that time together and and this course, you you're gonna have relationships and friendships that last that long. Um with uh the producers, that obviously, you know, this course is is the course is tailored to the agronomists, but the goal is to, you know, is is to learn this information to help out the producers in the end. So, Sean, I wonder if you can talk, you know, what what are you what are you seeing or hearing in terms of the direct or indirect benefits that producers have had from, you know, again, early days, but from working with uh agronomists and individuals who've taken this course.

SPEAKER_05 47:47

Yeah, and again, um we're only into our second year kind of doing this, so I think this will only get more and more in time, but I'm lucky, and maybe it's just cheating for this answer, but I do know a peep a couple agronomists personally and locally that have gone through TAP. Um so I interact with them quite a bit since they've gone through the course. And you know what it's kind of cool because I've seen since they've gone through this um tap program, I think they just they're thinking about things a little bit differently, and um then they kind of they've called they've called me and they've asked questions about different things I've done and seen. And you can just tell their brains and the gears in their head are turning a little bit differently um to the point where they're actually actively engaging with their clientele, their farmers, with you know, trying to find people interested to support trials with them and you know, trying things like cover dropping, um, or like underneath a cash crop with clover or something like that, or or intercrop intercropping two cash crops together. And just the fact that they're they're asking very practical questions in season, and I know that they're working on this with some of their farmers. Um, it's pretty cool to see in just a year turnaround to see that impact already. And that's only just from a couple examples I've experienced. It'd be cool to see from every agronomist that's gone through TAP where they're at now since they since they went through this program. And you know, I can't talk for everyone, but I just the little bit I have seen, um, that's pretty exciting, I think. And just to actually to see the impact that that this program has had already. Um really, I guess there's some pride there, I guess, but just feels good that what we're doing is is trending in the right direction, and we actually are um able to support people with some of these changes. So that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

That is uh that is super cool and and certainly would be um you know, just just a like you say, sense of pride, but also you know, just doing something that's making a difference, right? And and whether you're you know whether you're teaching the course, building the content, um, taking part in it, or you know, you're you're a producer who's learning from you know from an agronomist, like that, it's it's that uh I'm making a difference here with with this. And you know, in terms of you know in terms of the the broader industry, Luke, maybe I'll I'll throw this one to you. Um and if if you want to defer, feel free to. But in terms of the the broader industry, broader agriculture industry, how do you see the how do you see the program maybe not influencing, but ultimately impacting the the industry in in as a whole? You know, maybe it's three years, five years, ten years down the road.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Yeah, that's a that's a great question, Chris. Um and I I'll probably speak about it very broadly, um, and not get into too many specifics, but like really my goal is to, I guess, and this is Sean and Regan will probably have a bit of a different perspective on this, but really what I would like to see TAB doing, you know, beyond um obviously um, you know, giving agronomists tools and support for for making changes to to practices to improve soil function, but I'd like to see more of these changes actually pushed into policy. Um because you know, I've I've been working in egg policy for about five years now, off and on. And one thing that um that I see is that it's very top-down um across the board, and especially when it comes to soil health management, it's just there's not enough input from practitioners, and by practitioners, I mean farmers and agronomists into how policy um addresses soil management. So, you know, like four or five years down the road, it'd be fantastic to see tap informing policy in different ways so that policy can be more um responsive to and support um the implementation of soil health practices.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Regan, anything, Regan or Sean, anything you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_00 51:57

Um I I agree with Luke. Um it's it's so important um for CAP now to be a face that might be more approachable for um those that are higher than us, I guess. Um and I mean not in the way like Luke's talking about policy. Um so having CAP be available to be that face um to bring more of that um practical experience to the to the table versus um those that haven't had that on-prem experience and connecting the two together um is what I think will help get that ball rolling a lot faster. Um just yeah, having that connection of the on booth in the field um to those that don't have that booth in the field experience but are trying to make those changes um and having those connections.

SPEAKER_04 53:10

Anything you want to add to that, Sean?

SPEAKER_05 53:13

Um Yeah, I think it's I see TAP as kind of this uh same kind of theme on this bridge, I guess, between within the supply chain, you've got uh you know the producers, the farmers growing the food, then we've got the end users or consumers eating the food. And TAP is just a school place in the middle where it's helping support the advisors that are working with potentially hundreds of thousands of acres, and we actually get direct feedback through them about what on the farm side of things, the challenges they're going through, the barriers they have for adoption, um, whether it's soil health related or not, and and vice versa. Then we also get to feel this pressure, I guess is maybe the word, from the consumer side of things or you know, the end product side of the supply chain and their goals and objectives. So we kind of are meeting in this midpoint a little bit, and we can feel it from both sides, and we can try and help weave that together a little bit through the technical training at scale, I think is what TAP is trying to do here. Um, because we are providing education that you can't just get anywhere. Um you know, we can't just take a at this point, at least out of university, there's not like a soil health really themed um degree that I know of, at least in our part of the world. And you come out of that and you've got this good foundational knowledge, but you want to learn a little bit more of the, like Regan said, the practical side of things and what's actually worked on the landscape for other agronomists or other farmers or hasn't worked, and um so that it better suits all levels of the supply chain, I guess. In a big picture, that's kind of where I how I see tap you know working in the future is just kind of in this unique spot where it can try and help bring everything together a little bit, if if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, in in terms of that influencing that that that broader spectrum, is there any specific, you know, retailers or any partners, you know, programs that you're working with, um, you know, who have who have helped, and no, you mentioned Pepsi uh Pepsi Co at the front at the start of the the conversation, but who have really helped um bring this forward that you know you you want to thank or or mention here today?

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Yeah, um we do have a number of partners that have provided us with funding. Um so I don't want to leave anyone out. Um and so just just top of mind is Nature United. They've provided us with with significant strategic um technical uh support and and funding um you know since 2024. Um and we do have do have other partners. Um and maybe I could send you a list because if I go from the top of my head, I'm I'm gonna leave somebody out and I don't want to do that. Um so maybe I could just send you a list list after the after the call, if that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Yeah, absolutely. I I guess you know that that's one question if you know we can we can ask now is if if you're listening to this podcast and you want to learn more about uh more about the program, um, what it all involves and you know potentially who those partners or some of those founding partners are, where can where can producers, industry, uh, industry people, agronomists learn more about this program?

SPEAKER_01 56:41

Yeah, so we have a website. Um and I can send you that URL as well uh after after the call. Um so that kind of outlines the the basics of TAP, who our partners are, what our primary objectives are. Um and that's that's really the the best way to learn about TAP.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

So we're we're starting to get to the end of the conversation here. Um in terms of you know, in terms of we talked about how how it impacts, you know, how you want to see the program impact the the industry in a broader perspective, how do you see the program itself evolving over the next few years? Is there, you know, is there additional expansion? It has the response been, you know, has this response been so positive that you're you're gonna need to open up more seats, more cohorts? Uh what's what's the what's the future look like for the program?

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Um Yeah, so we're looking currently looking to expand into Alberta. Right now we're just covering Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Um and so we're looking to expand into Alberta uh starting in 2027. Um and we're also looking at how to incorporate um incentive programs into TAP. And not that not necessarily it'd be more from a from an information and um education perspective versus uh you know, we're we're tied to a certain incentive program. Um it's more of like you know, providing participants with an idea of what's out there and what might work for their clients.

SPEAKER_03 58:34

Regan, anything you wanted to add to that?

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Um we will be um have starting our cohort number. Correct me if I'm right, is it four or five? Four um in October. So over the summer, um, if anybody's interested in uh signing up or finding out more information about it, um, you can um ask that on our website and cohort five will start in January. Um I do know that some agronomists get in a pinch with soil testing in the fall time, so depending on time constraints. And yeah, so you can enroll for it um through that way.

SPEAKER_02 59:23

So is is cohort five in January? Is is that the one that'll be open to Alberta as well?

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Maybe. Yeah, we can't say for sure, but there's there's good potential that it will be. Um and just back to your question about running additional cohorts, I think two is about the maximum we can do per year without significantly expanding our team. So this is uh it's a really effective, but also very labor-intensive way of delivering instruction. So I think if we if we added additional cohorts, we'd have to significantly expand our team.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Fair enough. So a couple questions here to to wrap up the conversation. Um and and I think it we touched on this a little bit with the the the uh pro you know policy and and influencing the the broader agriculture spectrum earlier, but uh just want to give you know one more chance to to add anything onto that. So um I'll start with you, Sean. Uh how how do you as you're building the the content out for this program and and really thinking about it and taking it from uh a concept to you know to a living uh a living program, uh what what do you define long-term success? You know, how what what does that that long-term success look like for you? Um you know, however many years from now you're you're sitting around with your grandkids telling stories and it's you know, this is what we did. Um, you know, this is what we did. I was a part of this, and and what what's that long-term success look like for you, Sean? Uh either in terms of the program or impacts to agriculture in general.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:10

Yeah, good question. I think because I'm a farmer, um my bias definitely shows at times, and I'm I'm a big farmer first guy. So success for me is this all works from the ground up. It doesn't work the other way, even though I think Luke kind of mentioned that's the way policy tends to work sometimes in our country, is from the top down. Um, but I do think this movement, right from the onset, this whole regenerative egg thing actually started from farmers. It was a farmer movement to begin with, not a corporate movement or a policy movement. The farmers started this movement, and I want that to continue, I want them to be the ones driving it towards success. Um, and I think that's where, again, TAP has such a powerful place in this because we're, yeah, we're not working directly with the farmers, but we're working with the advisors that they trust and hire to be their voice from an agronomy standpoint to, and that those are the people we're working with. So we are getting that direct tie from the ground up and understanding how all of this can actually work on farm, because again, if farmers aren't gonna adopt these practices, or if they're forced to adopt them and it actually doesn't fit their model and it actually isn't better for their land in their context or whatever it might be, it's never gonna work that well. So it needs to be the adoption needs to be pretty seamless for farmers. Um, it needs to make sense for them from a land management standpoint, first and foremost, but also from a financial standpoint, they need to stay in business and the farmers need to have that success. And I think if the farmers are successful with it, it will carry forward throughout the rest of the supply chain. Um, so I like to beat that drum pretty hard. I think that's what success will look like in the long term for sure. Um, and I do think again, TAP's in a really cool position to help help with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

Great, great answer. And I think you know that that economic success, that's um, you know, that that has to be part of the conversation. If it if it's not, um it's I think in in a lot of cases it's a pretty short conversation. So I appreciate you hearing that or appreciate hearing that that's that's certainly a focus. And um again, why it's important to have people who have boots on the ground, um, like the three of you involved, uh really truly understand that. So uh Luke, anything you wanted to add in terms of you know how you define long-term success of the program?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

Oh, that's a yeah. Um Yeah, I think kind of the long-term success of the program. I I really see TAP as one way to translate science into practice. And I think that's that's one thing that's really missing from especially soil science research and how it relates to production agriculture. Um, there's just not a lot of good mechanisms out there for translating science to practice. And I think TAP can be one of those mechanisms. And for kind of long-term success, I'd like to see TAP continue into the future 10, 15 years and you know, it you know, translating science into practice, um, but also kind of the other way around, you know, finding some way so that we can get farmer and and agronomist perspectives back into basic research so that researchers can focus um their efforts on on more applied and practical problems. Appreciate that. Regan?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:49

Um, I have the vision or the dream of what CAP could be in the future. And as farmers, we all have hundreds of chem reps that we can call on um when we have a weed problem in our field or an issue with a chemical going on. And my dream and hope for what CAP is going to provide um is this massive network. So we can have so I don't call it a soul health rep, um, having a database that farmers can phone, um having that backdrop of you know, the soil health fundamentals, and I have questions about it. Um, so being able to support producers on the other side of it, you know, the chem companies are important for us as farmers as well. But um we really to make this movement keep going forward, we need to have this network, we need to have it available to producers and um in in the form of those contacts that do go through this program. So that was that's kind of just a vision, right? Uh way above. But um I think that in the in the future that's that would be a huge hope is that we just kind of have a little bit of a mindset shift on um where we can go to for um different information other than um about our weeds and bugs.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

And if you're able to have you know have a directory or as a producer, you just know when it comes to sawhoff this is the person I need to contact, like you say, versus that that chem rep, which you know all all producers would know. I mean that that's an I think that's an amazing definition of success, right? Where it just it becomes so mainstream, oh I've got this problem, this is who I call. And it it doesn't involve that doesn't involve a chemical or a synthetic product. So fantastic. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

And even like, yeah, like cover cropping, you know, if somebody's trying to do put in cover crops, you know, what mixes do I put in? What should I think about? You know, just all sorts of different things like that when we're looking at it. Um we do have those supports from our seed reps and stuff too. But um, hopefully this program can offer some insight on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

That's that's fair. Last question. Um, Sean, I'll I'll start with you. So, you know, you're you're an agronomist or you're you know, you're someone in the egg industry, you're listening to this podcast, you know, what's what's the one thing that you want the listeners to take away from today's conversation or from the program? Um, the the one lasting thing that that uh you would like them to take home from from today's conversation?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:41

I think if you know you're sitting at home or whatever you're doing, maybe you're driving a seat or something listening to this podcast, and you know, any of this spoke to you in the sense where you've got you know a bit of that itch or that fire in your belly, like, hey, I want to learn a little bit more about this soil health stuff. I've been a little bit hesitant to um dive into myself. I don't really know what it all means. I'm a little bit overwhelmed because there's all this going on right now, lots of stuff getting thrown at agronomists about um everything. And I think just if there's any curiosity there at all um that you think can better by adding some of this knowledge to your foundation could bring value to whether it's your day-to-day job or a business you own or your own farm, whatever it might be. Um, yeah, I feel like this app program could be a great spot for you to come and meet new people um from all across Western Canada and just learn about some of the soil health implementation. And just again, the the biggest part of it is is meeting new people and creating that that community of practice um that hopefully, you know, these cohorts stick together as a peer group network for years to come in the future. Um, and like you mentioned, Chris, building those professional and um personal friendships and relationships. And, you know, I liked Regan's vision there because yeah, that's exactly the nail on the head there. Um in time, you know, even after going through our first three cohorts we've had now, I think everyone's got a list of names that they didn't have before this program that they could just call up on and bug them about something because they they just they remember that person talking about that at some point. And you know, even if that person doesn't have that answer, I mean they might know someone and you just build those relationships and those connections. And it's the connections themselves is the reason why someone I think would want to come to this program. Um, so that would be, I guess, my my final take on it. If that's peace to you at all, then yeah, give us a show. Love it. Luke.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

Um, yeah. So if you're on the fence about taking the course, um it does count for uh uh uh CCA certification as well as agrology licensing requirements. So, you know, if even if you don't think you're gonna get much out of it, it'll still count towards your ongoing training. Um and just that alone I think is worthwhile.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:12

Good to know we hadn't uh we hadn't covered that, so that's that's really good information to add in there. So thank you for that. And Regan, final thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

Um, I think that's uh the course itself covers such a wide variety of topics that I just truly believe that there's a little bit of something for everybody. Um and being um yeah, being involved in the network um is is a great feeling. We've gone through three cohorts now, and there's been smiling faces, and everybody is very thankful, which makes me feel very uplifted that the movement and the this this course is needed. Um, as like Sean said, it's very um it's simple, it's straightforward, it's eight weeks. Um it shouldn't be too overwhelming. Um, even to just get your foot in the in the in the door and try and open up some new concepts, open up your mind, and maybe look at um the farming system a little bit differently than you did before. Um, so I think it is a very inspiring program, and we would just love to have as many people sign up as possible, obviously. But uh yeah, we just enjoy having um the different viewpoints from all other aspects of life.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:40

So well, thank you very much. So I'm uh Chris Babbings, and and again, I want to thank our guests here today who've joined us to talk about the TAP program, Regan Ferguson, uh Luke Strutman, and Sean Catherwood. Really appreciate your time and your insight. And if you're a producer who's listening to this podcast in the field, uh seeding is underway in in certain parts of the prairies and and will be underway um hopefully sooner than later in other parts of the prairies. So thanks for listening. Be safe and uh wishing you all the best during the growing season. So thanks everyone, and we'll talk to you again in the future.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:19

Thank you.