Sales Strategies Unveiled with Alvaro Ruiz

I had the pleasure of sitting down with my husband, Alvaro, to delve into his extensive experience in sales. Alvaro has been in the sales industry for nearly two decades. Our conversation focused on the challenges wedding photographers face with sales conversions, emphasizing the importance of genuine connections and understanding client needs. Alvaro shared valuable insights on how to approach sales with confidence, highlighting the significance of being both personable and professional. His advice on responding promptly to inquiries and the nuances of pricing strategies was particularly enlightening. It was a joy to share this conversation with the wedding photography community.

Key takeaways:

• Responding quickly to inquiries is crucial; being the first to connect with a potential client can make all the difference.
• Approach sales with a mindset of helping clients make the right decision, rather than feeling pushy or “convincing” them.
• Personalized follow-ups, like sending relevant photos or articles, create a friendly connection and help you stand out from other vendors.
• Transparency around pricing is important; offering a range or average investment helps manage expectations without losing potential clients.
• Face-to-face or voice conversations build trust and connection, which is essential in the wedding industry where emotional rapport plays a huge role in the client’s decision.

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Transcript

Lisette Gatliff (00:00)
Welcome back to the wedding frame. Today I have a very special guest on the show. My husband is here with me and he has worked in sales forever it seems. So I wanted to bring him on to talk about all the sales techniques he's learned over the years that he's worked in this field. And.

He's helped me a lot and I know he can help you guys with sales techniques when, you know, inquiries come in. A lot of photographers are amazing at their craft, but they sometimes feel awkward or unsure about the selling part. So today we're gonna be breaking that down in a simple and approachable way. But first, hi Alvaro. So how long have you been working in sales? Like pretty much your whole adult life, right?

Alvaro Ruiz (00:38)
Hello.

Yeah, one of my first jobs was selling mortgage refinances. I mean, was, gosh, almost 20 years ago.

Lisette Gatliff (00:55)
Wow, yeah, so I'm assuming you've learned a lot along the way.

Alvaro Ruiz (00:59)
Yeah, I've taken it upon myself to not only learn from my jobs, but also to do my own reading and learning outside of work so I can stay up on the latest sales techniques and know more about the philosophy of sales and psychology of sales.

Lisette Gatliff (01:17)
Awesome.  Great. Yeah, it's like definitely like your passion. and I think you also mentioned that you've like had mentees ⁓ as newer, less experienced employees come into your workplace, you've had them ask you to be somewhat of a mentor.

Alvaro Ruiz (01:35)
Yeah, I mean not directly where they're like, hey, I want you to be my mentor but more like When they've asked me questions, I've always been really welcoming of questions. I know when you teach it it refreshes certain Ideas and lessons that you learn when you teach it to somebody else. So I've always been really open plus just my personality I'm welcoming to people asking me questions or wanting to know more about what I know so naturally I've liked taking newer salespeople under my wing and been able to help them as much as I can.

Lisette Gatliff (02:06)
Amazing. All right, well, let me start with the questions. So let's see. From your perspective, why do you think wedding photographers sometimes struggle with sales conversions? Like, what do you think about making the sale makes it feel intimidating for people who are creative like me?

Alvaro Ruiz (02:27)
Well, I know from having tried to help you to use more salesmanship in the way that you interact with your potential customers, that you don't feel like, you just have a tendency to not want to be pushy at all. You just want people to make their own decisions. But sometimes people need to be helped to make decisions. Sometimes people like, as a salesperson, the mentality you have to have, I think a positive mentality is that you want to help people make the right decision. And if you really believe that you're the right photographer for the job or whatever it is that you're selling, but in this case photography, and you have a conversation with them and you believe you're on the same page and you're going to be the best fit for them, then you should let them know that they should choose you. And sometimes people just do not want to...They don't want to be pushy. They're so afraid of being pushy that they lose the sale.

Lisette Gatliff (03:24)
Okay, so now that I've started doing mentorships I always tell photographers that the inquiry stage is not about convincing anyone, it's about showing your value and letting them see who you are. So you kind of gave me a little bit of your take on that, the thought of I don't want to convince anyone is maybe holding me back.

Alvaro Ruiz (03:49)
Yeah, and it's not so much about convincing. you should have a genuine conversation with people and sometimes you might find that you're not the right fit for them. And part of being a good salesperson is, ⁓ admitting that to yourself and the client, like, Hey, I don't think that we're a good fit because of this and this and refer them to somebody you think might be a better fit. But if you think they're a good fit, then go for it. mean, it's your success that's on the line. No one else is gonna call them and close the deal for you. You have to take that upon yourself. So if you see that the potential is there and you don't know what it's gonna lead to in the future too, it's so important to try to close that deal for yourself.

Lisette Gatliff (04:32)
Yeah, I do remember asking you a while ago or telling you that I, when I'm in a discovery call or a consultation, I close it by, I don't, I think I would not even, oh, I remember. I would say, all right, well, think about it. You know, maybe even talk to other photographers and email me when you're ready, when you're sure that you want me. And my thinking was I don't want them to go with me unless they 100 % know that they want me as their photographer. But I think because of you, started changing that at the end saying or adding that I would like to photograph their

Alvaro Ruiz (05:06)
Mm-hmm.

Lisette Gatliff (05:17)
Actually letting them know that it's something that I would want, that I thought we vibed really well. And I think the wedding would be so much fun. I mean, like, yes, vibing with people is very important, right? So I wasn't...

Alvaro Ruiz (05:30)
Nothing sells better than having enthusiasm and just a genuine excitement for working with them. Nothing's going to sell better than that,

Lisette Gatliff (05:40)
Yeah, yeah, so I'm glad I did, because of you, change that. Because if you're just coming across as, I don't know, it's almost a little bit arrogant, right? Like, to not even express that you want to do their wedding or whatever, so, okay. Okay.

Alvaro Ruiz (05:57)
Like take it or leave it. We don't care.  And let me just say this about that too. I am a big believer that, in that there's no one right way to do anything. So if you wanna be the type of salesperson that's more like, you know, go shop around, make sure that we're the right fit, and if I'm the one and come back, I think that's a fine way to do things if that's how you wanna sell. Just make sure that you follow up with what you say. If you say, you know, that look around and be the person to follow up and be like, hey, were you able to look around? What did you find? Like, and follow up with people if that's how you're gonna sell. Otherwise, try to close it on that first or second call.

Lisette Gatliff (06:37)
Okay, yeah.  So something I always emphasize is responding quickly to inquiries because couples feel seen right away. And this is something that I actually learned from other experts while either listening to other podcasts or just, you know, reading from people who have been in this field, not necessarily as photographers, but more like sales experts.  And specifically, I've heard that you should respond within five minutes to an email. And I also have heard that some people, some photographers wait 24 hours, they even have something like a responder saying like, ⁓ you know, I'm busy shooting a wedding, I'll get back to you in 24 hours. So what do you think about that response time?

Alvaro Ruiz (07:08)
I think it's very important to follow up as soon as you can. I've really never heard different advice from that. I think that might be the first time I've heard it, mentioning that right now, which I guess it could be a technique that some people can pull off. Like I said, there's no one right way to do things. It reminds me of like the movie Swingers where they're like, you gotta wait three days to call the girl. It's just like a game that you're playing. But to me, it's like there's a very straightforward reason why you want to call right away. It's because you're in a competitive market. And if you don't call right away, you wait 24 hours and you call them and they might have already had this great conversation with another photographer. This photographer might have been their second choice, but they called them first. They had a great conversation and now you're out of the running. it's just like, you just want to be the first one just out of the competition and being able to get to the customer first. To me, it's a very straightforward answer to that.

Lisette Gatliff (08:28)
Yeah, yeah. You know what, I didn't even think about the responder message of busy shooting a wedding. I didn't even think of that as a technique. But I have heard that just people appearing to be so busy, right? Because I guess people want to book busy people. I don't know. But I don't think that's the smartest thing to do.

Alvaro Ruiz (08:49)
Yeah. I think that that is, it's a viable technique, but it's so hard to pull off. It's better to do that genuinely. If you're genuinely busy, then people do wanna work with you more. I think in marketing, everybody knows that there's a supply and demand and creates value and people want it more.

Lisette Gatliff (08:58)
Okay.

Alvaro Ruiz (09:16)
So yeah, it's true, but if you're trying to like present yourself like that, then you gotta be really careful, because one wrong move with that kind of technique and you just lost a sale just because you're trying to play a game. But if people wanna try that --

Lisette Gatliff (09:29)
I think most of us definitely put money into marketing, advertising. So yeah, maybe we shouldn't be playing games for sure. We need to go with a more sure fire technique. All right, so let's talk about pricing. A lot of photographers feel nervous when someone asks about price. What is a good way to handle that without immediately jumping into money talk?

Alvaro Ruiz (09:50)
Well, with pricing like that, that's, think that's a very, that's very specific to photography. found when we've spoken about this, this part of your sales process. I think it's, it's best to be just straightforward with people, but you also want to, this comes with experience as you want to read them too. The better you are at reading people, like the better you're going to be able to present yourself.

Lisette Gatliff (10:03)
Mm-hmm.

Alvaro Ruiz (10:17)
And once you're good at reading the customers and then you can know if you can be straightforward right off the bat or a little bit later on. But the pricing thing is very nuanced. I think we'd have to get more into specifics. what, depending on what kind of photographer you are, like if you're a luxury photographer, if you're a brand new photographer, when you present the pricing is gonna be totally different. it's a...Yeah, it's a very nuanced topic.

Lisette Gatliff (10:49)
Okay, yeah, and you know what? Now that you mentioned that, I'm thinking about the kind of controversial topic of whether to put your pricing on your website or not. And I say controversial because it's just such a hot topic with us wedding photographers and some people really believe in not putting any pricing so that you have the chance to sell, like on the phone or on the Zoom call or whatever.
Others think you should put your pricing, especially with, guess, Gen Zers are saying they want transparency. And that way you're not wasting time with people who, the moment they know what your pricing is, realize it can't afford you. Do you have a preference on philosophy?

Alvaro Ruiz (11:36)
A philosophy on that? I think you definitely want to give them something, but you also want to give yourself room to maneuver. And that I don't mean like to be duplicitous where when they call you have a totally different pricing, but you want to give them something on your site You want to give them an idea. You also don't want to waste your time. If you're completely out of someone's price range, then why do you want to have a conversation with them? So I think you should present some kind of idea of what your pricing is, maybe a range, maybe make it clear on the site that there might be changes depending on travel, venue, whatever it is that you're gonna add on, that it might change, the pricing might change, but yeah, you wanna give them a range, absolutely.

Lisette Gatliff (12:19)
Okay, yeah, you know what, when I didn't have pricing, my thought was, and I hear this a lot actually with like the luxury market, like your, means that you're not showing your worth, your value, meaning like my website should be showing images, even like the fonts, it should be screaming luxury. So someone who thinks they can't afford me should not even want to inquire. But what I have found is that people are getting married for the first time. They have no idea how much photography costs. I you and I just got married. And even though I'm in this industry, I didn't know what a florist costs. I was actually very surprised. So I guess, yeah, I like what you're saying. And I think people either put starting at -- I personally like average investment because starting at that's sometimes that's all they can afford and they think they can get your services for the starting at price, which is usually not the case. So yeah, that's great. think that having a range or an average investment is perfect.

Alvaro Ruiz (13:18)
Yeah, you should give them something. just think that unless you're like the world's most famous wedding photographer and only like the biggest stars contact you, then I guess you don't need to put your price on your site because there's so many demand and they're gonna pay you whatever you want. But other than that, mean, you should definitely give them something to work with.

Lisette Gatliff (13:42)
yeah, everyone knows.  Yeah.  Okay, so I feel like people relax a lot more when we jump on a call. Why do you think like speaking with someone face to face is much stronger than just going, know,  speaking through emails?

Alvaro Ruiz (14:13)
people just want to connect with somebody and they want to talk to a person. I think that's not just specifically with sales, it's just in life in general. Most people don't want to talk to a chat bot and be yelling at their phone, "representative." Like, you know, they want to talk to a person.

Lisette Gatliff (14:32)
Ha ha ha!

Alvaro Ruiz (14:33)
If an issue arises where they really need answers that are more nuanced, they're going to want somebody on the phone with them.

Lisette Gatliff (14:41)
Yeah, that's funny that you say that because I did have an AI chat box on my website that no one used, but I thought it was cool. no, yeah, people would instead of typing in a question on that chat box, they would rather just reach out. And I think another important thing specifically for our for wedding photographers is that we are going to be by the especially the bride's side, but you know, the bride and groom are going to be by their side the whole day. So I've always said this is very important to connect with your couples on a consultation or discovery call because they need to know that they're going to get along with you. Otherwise their wedding day, the most important day of their life so far may not go so well for them if they don't have a good feeling around you because we are literally, yeah, we're literally with them the whole day.

Alvaro Ruiz (15:30)
Yeah. And the wedding industry is one of those businesses that's based so much around emotion. I know this is like a totally different end of the spectrum, but I've always heard that businesses that are based on emotion are the easiest to like to sell in like funerals too. people will just pay, they'll just pay. it's like, so I think that's why a lot of wedding industry people don't focus so much on sales because it's really not as necessary. People just are ready to pay because they're buying with emotion. like, yeah, so even in like, like with car sales, if the car salesman can make you feel, feel something for the car, you know, you're in it and he's like painting a picture, then they're gonna, then you're gonna buy like instantly. It's like when we watched that show, Mad Men, and like, he would use emotions to like sell the ads to people and it, you know, it was just...Like building emotion in people is like the quickest way to a sale and weddings just come with it.

Lisette Gatliff (16:33)
I think, yeah, and not only do we evoke emotion when we're talking to the couple, you know, in that first discovery call, but it's also like your website should also be doing that. Everything that you do visual, I mean, we are lucky because it's visual. So we should be doing that on our social media, our website. I once had a bride book me and back then it was like my highest package and I was elated. But she booked me solely on, well after talking to me, but she told me that she saw an Instagram post where it was a couple on the beach and I had written that the bride's father had passed away recently. And then it was an overcast day and all of a sudden the sun came out and it was like this gorgeous sunset. And the bride's mom was like, look, that's your dad. And I put that in the caption and this bride's father had also passed away and she also had a beach wedding. So it was just all connected for her and really spoke to her.

Alvaro Ruiz (17:34)
And This goes back also to the why you want to call right away. It's like you already made them feel something on your website or through the photos they've seen of you or a story somebody told them about you. It's like they're ready and you got to make sure to jump on that opportunity as soon as you're able to because they felt some emotion.

Lisette Gatliff (18:03)
Yeah, that leads me to another thing that I've been wondering about because again, experts go back and forth with this, but it's sharing about your personal life. There was one point I'd say like five years ago where, or maybe not even that long ago where it was all about your personality and like almost like oversharing and a lot of TikToks and reels. I mean, I was doing that, but I know like also there's the thinking that you should be more elusive and exclusive. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Alvaro Ruiz (18:31)
Well, I think with the, like I said before about the elusive and exclusivity thing kind of goes with like not showing your prices unless you're like the most famous photographer. It's like the elusive exclusivity is like something that you work up to and I think it should come naturally. If you're like artificially doing that, I don't, in my opinion, I don't think it's gonna work very well. I think you should build yourself up to that just as a natural progression of your career. If you're an amazing photographer that's worked with everybody, eventually you're gonna be an exclusive person. You want to present some of your personal life. But then at the same time, like when I really think about it, it shouldn't be that relevant. I mean, if you have amazing work, what does it matter what you're doing on your off time to them too, you know?

Lisette Gatliff (19:30)
Yeah, I mean, like it got to the point where people would put like, I love donuts, you know, like just very specific things. And yeah, and it's like, it was to relate to your potential couples. did have, okay, so I actually did have that on my website, it's in my about page.

Alvaro Ruiz (19:38)
Well, I mean, if it comes down to like if you love donuts or not, like if they're like, if you're like, like neck and neck with some other photographer and they're like, I'm just, really considering you. And then you want to come up with some personal connection. That's where you start, like, that's where like some real salesmanship comes in where you do a, you know, like some subtly do a little digging about what they're into. And then maybe you find some connection with them. Like I love that donut place too, I go there all the time, and you start building more rapport. And then they feel more friendly towards you and then it's gonna influence their decision. So in that case then I do think that something like that could be helpful.

Lisette Gatliff (20:26)
Yeah.I remember that specific thing that I had on my website because a bride did reach out and say something about her liking donuts too. I know that mostly, yeah, yeah.

Alvaro Ruiz (20:40)
So that is the conversation starter. I think that's more like social media influencer marketing, things that I don't know too much about like using social media to sell. There's people that are like experts in that kind of selling and presenting yourself to people. Just as a overall view on it, I don't think it hurts. think it's fine if it's a business page, if once in a while you share some of your life with people. I think people generally like that. I mean I do if I'm following a business.

Lisette Gatliff (21:11)
Yeah, I mean, for me, I know that I've been sharing less of like my mom life, right? Because they don't really relate to that. So I've been sharing when I go to cool events or just more about, you know, my photography world. So but I think there still should be a little bit of your personal life, right? And just it doesn't have to be crazy like.

Alvaro Ruiz (21:29)
Yeah.And you'll see, I think, from the response, like, if people are liking it or if all of a sudden it's like you post something and there's no engagement, then you can know, like, okay, like, the people that follow me, like, don't like that post, I guess.

Lisette Gatliff (21:50)
Yeah, you should be monitoring those things. And in my last episode, I talked about the different markets and you actually kind of sell differently in each market. So with the more entry level or budget market, you're definitely going to want to lean into being their friend. That's a way more personal connection than the luxury market where the couple is relying heavily on their planner. And these people are usually professionals who don't have time to like form a friendship with their vendors and they're just relying on the planner. So that's another part about it is what market you're serving and you can then determine how you're going to show up on social media and on your website.

Alright, so moving on to once a photographer understands what a couple needs, what is the best way to present the pricing and packages or however a custom proposal, what's the best way to do that without overwhelming them?

Alvaro Ruiz (22:50)
Gently, clearly, with language they can understand in a friendly but excited manner. Here you would use more traditional sales techniques like mirroring, the way a certain, kind of mimicking like a certain, like the way a person speaks. if they speak very quickly and very excited and that's how you want to speak to them.
If they're more laid back, kind of a chiller kind of person and that's how you want to present it. So this is where you want to use your charm and present it in a positive way. Like even if it's beyond their budget, maybe by a little bit, then you want to explain why your services are worth this amount. Make sure you that they understand everything completely before the presentation is over. Are there any more questions? Is there any part that we need to go over again? ⁓ One big thing I think is also to come across as you're educating them more than selling to them at this point too. So they feel like if they have further questions down the line, they can come back to you and speak further about these without fearing that you're gonna be pushy or not answer the question honestly because you want the sale. So you want to come across as an educator and make sure that everything is understood 100 % completely.

Lisette Gatliff (24:14)
Okay. But do you think that let's just say that you have no idea if you are in their budget or not because they didn't give any indication. Should you at the end ask in a maybe in a subtle way or, you know, or even in a direct way, like, am I in your budget or what is your budget? Is that a good idea?

Alvaro Ruiz (24:40)
I think so. I do think so. I think people appreciate people that are straightforward with them and to the point, especially with a business, even though it is more than a business transaction, it is still a business transaction. So people appreciate that in business transactions when somebody can be straightforward and get down to the point with them and give them numbers and find out if it's where they're at.
You have to always ask for the close most of the time, like 90 % of the time, unless somebody's just like that rare buyer that's just like can't wait to buy. I feel like you should always ask for the sale and that's part of it, asking them, am I in your budget? Are we on the right track? Because you won't know unless you ask sometimes. Like sometimes people are shy, they don't want to say anything or I don't know, just, in my opinion, yes.

Lisette Gatliff (25:27)
Yeah, I I've always tried away myself from asking that because, you know, I was firm on my pricing, let's say. But nowadays, I'm okay with a little bit of negotiating. if, you know.

Alvaro Ruiz (25:41)
Some people just want to get a hundred bucks off. I don't know. if you don't say anything, they, you know, maybe they just want to negotiate. They felt like negotiating and they want to get a few hundred off and you can get down to that, you know.

Lisette Gatliff (25:53)
Yeah, I mean, sometimes there's a wedding that I really want, you know, like the plan because it's a planner that I want to work with. The venue's amazing. you know, I also don't ever ask why they didn't go with me. And I know you're supposed to follow up and ask so that you can. It's helpful, obviously, for the future, but --

Alvaro Ruiz (26:13)
It is helpful, but I wouldn't take that as some like rule you have to ask. Like, I mean, it's most of the time it's nothing out of that's in your control. So, but, but I mean --

Lisette Gatliff (26:24)
I think a lot of times, yeah, I think a lot of times it is pricing. So I always think, man, if I could have somehow conveyed that I could be a little bit flexible, I could have gotten this wedding. speaking about numbers, not being shy about it. It's just like, there's just so much expertise and education out there and I'm always like soaking it all in.

Alvaro Ruiz (26:39)
Yeah.

Lisette Gatliff (26:47)
And you know, it's like, you'd think one person's right and then another person says something else. But that's why I like, I like talking to you because you work in just straight sales and, you know, like the actual techniques that work. So really.

Alvaro Ruiz (27:02)
There's a lot of books out there about specific parts of the sale. There's so many books, just about different closing techniques, different opening techniques. At every part of the process, there's probably hundreds of books about each step of the sales process. So if people really want to get into the psychology of sales, there's an infinite amount of resources out there for it.

Lisette Gatliff (27:27)
Nice. Is there a certain book that you really like?

Alvaro Ruiz (27:31)
Well, the last one I read was about prospecting, I wanted to brush up on that. So I don't know if that would really be helpful with --

Lisette Gatliff (27:39)
Actually, it might be a little helpful because when you reach the luxury market, you're actually selling to planners. A lot of times, they're not aware of you or they just have their regular people that they work with. So you kind of have to, maybe not cold contact, but warm contact. You've met them at least or you've been following them on social media, are making sure that you're visible by liking and commenting. And so then you can do like a warm email. What do you think about that? Because like I said, at the luxury level, you're mostly working with planners and it's kind of like they're your client.

Alvaro Ruiz (28:22)
About cold emailing. It can work, but just be prepared to do a lot of it to get results. Cold anything, cold calling, cold emailing, cold knocking on doors. Just be prepared to do a lot of work for small results, but it can definitely work. mean, it's tried and true. have built businesses. People have built corporations, we're starting with that kind of thing, but it's a lot of work.

Lisette Gatliff (28:40)
Yeah. Okay, so then warm emailing is gonna obviously be a little bit more in your favor. As in you've met this planner maybe once or twice. This is why networking I think is very important and there's so many opportunities nowadays for networking events to meet fellow vendors and for us, I mean the planners are, they're like the honey to us bees.

Alvaro Ruiz (28:56)
Yeah, of course, yeah.

Lisette Gatliff (29:16)
Everyone's trying to talk to them, but that's still a step in a foot in the door if you've actually had a conversation, introduced yourself, and then send an email. So I guess I would call that a warm email.

Alvaro Ruiz (29:22)
And, yeah, if there's been any kind of previous contact, then it becomes warm. Yeah, if they inquire, then that's a hot lead. yeah, any kind of contact becomes warm, which is exponentially better than a cold email. Even if it's like a referral is like a very warm lead. yeah, mean, cold is like the worst of the worst. Like I said, people build businesses out of that.  It's just tough.

Lisette Gatliff (30:02)
Yeah, and it's discouraging too.

Alvaro Ruiz (30:05)
Yeah, you have to be ready for a lot of rejection.

Lisette Gatliff (30:08)
Right, or just, yeah, no responses, for sure.

Alvaro Ruiz (30:10)
No response, yeah. Even outright hostility sometimes. I don't know, I don't know. I'm just now I'm just talking about sales in general. I don't think anybody would be hostile to a wedding photographer. I don't know.

Lisette Gatliff (30:13)
My gosh, you'd be surprised. I know, like, I've definitely experienced a little bit of hostility, but that's another topic.

Alvaro Ruiz (30:27)
And when you were asking about book recommendations, I'll just say that you should definitely check out Tom Hopkins. He's like an old school sales guy, out of all the, like I've read like really old stuff and like newer books. Tom Hopkins is like kind of in the middle, because I think his stuff came out in like the late 80s, early 90s. But I really like his style of selling. He's like a real estate guy, but it's like very warm, like a friendly, positive outlook on selling, kind of selling. But still very technique and technical oriented selling too. So if you look him up, look at some of his books, that might be helpful.

Lisette Gatliff (31:11)
Nice. What was his name again? Tom Hopkins?

Alvaro Ruiz (31:13)
Tom Hopkins.

Lisette Gatliff (31:15)
Okay, so I think I'm just gonna ask you one last question. So say a photographer has a great initial call. The couple seems interested, but they don't book immediately. Like you send the proposal and you don't hear from them. What would you recommend as a way to follow up without feeling too pushy? Or maybe you should be a little pushy, I don't know. What do you think?

Alvaro Ruiz (31:18)
I guess if it just depends how like how you felt about that that couple if you really feel like there was something there You have to you have to like really read the signs You know like if if you follow up with them after a week and say hi How's it going and they ghost you again, then it's probably done. It's dead But if they respond in any way like we're still thinking try again after a week. I mean, It's definitely one of the hardest things to do follow-up, but it's also, people leave a lot of money on the table when they don't. So you should definitely do your best to follow up. Unless you really felt bad about the call afterwards, you should follow up like 100 % of the time with people.

Lisette Gatliff (32:29)
Yeah, that makes sense. This is like, if a couple's seeming to be interested, they express it. But I've also heard that people are taking longer to book. I think ever since the pandemic, when things were somewhat unknown for the future, ⁓ people are not booking a year in advance anymore. Let's say even if they're inquiring, they're probably not ready to book like maybe six months to even three months out. And it used to be that like you wanted to secure your vendors right away. So yeah, you're to book the venue, the photographer a year beforehand. I almost think that like this, especially photography is very saturated. So it's almost like clients know that if this photographer that they initially inquired with isn't available, well, this is going to be another amazing one that will be available. So that's another thing. You know, we need to ramp up our sales techniques and all that because there's just so much competition now.

Alvaro Ruiz (33:33)
Yeah, and you asked how would be a good way. This isn't something that I've done too much, but I've always thought it was a good idea to make it more friendly, less salesman-cy is to send like an article or maybe a photo that and personalize it to them with the follow up, not just like, hey, did you decide yet? But be like I saw this photo and from what we were talking about in our conversation, this is a good angle that we could use at our shoot and then just attach it and be like, let me know what you think. Or like if you guys discussed a certain venue, like I saw this article about this venue and I thought of you. And then you send that and you just, you know, that's, it's a much friendlier way than to just being like, you're ready to buy.

Lisette Gatliff (34:21)
Actually love that so much and I have not heard that at all from anyone else. And that's such a great way to also stand out a bit from the other photographers that they probably talk to. That's the one thing I forgot to mention, they're reaching out to several vendors, not even just photographers, but you can guarantee you're not the only one that they had a call with.

Alvaro Ruiz (34:45)
That's why you wanna be the first.

Lisette Gatliff (34:47)
Yeah, you want to be the first. So to recap, you want to respond as soon as possible. And let's say you are shooting a wedding, you know, because it is on a Saturday that they reached out by email. Even when I'm at a wedding, I still have time to glance at my phone here and there. And I will just send a quick message saying like, I don't know, like, I'm busy right now, but I got your email, I am available on your date, and I'll get back to you with more details. Or actually, I actually don't even have to tell them I'll get back to them because I can send out -- I have a CRM, I use HoneyBook, I love HoneyBook, and I'm able to just quickly send a template email that I change their name and all that and the personal details, the venue, the date, and say I'm available, and then I send them my pricing sheet. Again, I know that's not what everyone does, that's what I do, but it also allows me to quickly answer their email without putting in a lot of work.

Thank you for coming on. I'm always asking you questions so I thought why not share them with the wedding photography world.

Alvaro Ruiz (35:52)
Yeah, maybe someone out there will listen to my suggestion.

Lisette Gatliff (35:57)
I think so. I mean, I've listened to plenty of experts.  And that's the other thing, because there's a lot of us putting out education, you've got to kind of take what's relevant to you, what resonates the most with you, right? And your own sales technique, you know?

Alvaro Ruiz (36:13)
Yeah, you gotta build up your own style.

Lisette Gatliff (36:23)
I think it's also dependent on personality. Sometimes you have a more straightforward type of personality, so you lean into that and you talk about numbers more, or you're just more charming and you can use that.

Alvaro Ruiz (36:37)
But you gotta be flexible. Even if you're Mr. Charming, some people just wanna hear numbers and you gotta be flexible enough to get into that with the customer that wants the numbers. So you have to be flexible too.

Lisette Gatliff (36:52)
Yeah, yeah, be a bit of a chameleon if you can be.

Well, husband, thank you so much for joining me in sharing your sales wisdom with us wedding photographers. I'll be continuing to ask you questions at home, so...

Alvaro Ruiz (36:59)
And I'll be happy to answer them. Thank you for having me on.

Lisette Gatliff (37:11)
Thank you.