Meeting the Moment with Jimmy Dunne: Pressure in Perspective

Jimmy Dunne is often described as a legendary figure in the finance and sporting world. But he'd describe himself more simply—as someone who shows up, relentlessly, for the people who stood by him and the moments that define what matters.

For over a decade, he built Sandler O'Neill into one of Wall Street's most respected investment banks. On September 11th, 2001, the firm lost 66 colleagues, nearly one-third of the company, when the South Tower collapsed.

He attended every funeral. Committed to paying for every child's college education. And rebuilt the firm from the ground up, refusing to let terrorism win or fear change how he lived. 

That same resolve and grit have defined everything Jimmy does, from rebuilding his firm to fighting for the future of the game of golf while the world was watching. 

He does not see any of this as heroic. To him, it's about gratitude, loyalty, and the obligation to do right by the people who believed in you back when nobody was watching at all.

In this episode, you'll hear and see Jimmy talk about:

· Growing up in a working-class Irish family where his parents taught him to look people in the eye—never up, never down 

·  What he learned caddying at 11 years old (lying about his age to get the job) that shaped how he leads today 

· The concept of "refined desperation"—leadership with intensity but without toxicity 

· The obligation he felt to his 66 colleagues lost on 9/11 and why rebuilding the firm became about something much bigger than business

· His role in one of golf’s most challenging moments and how he fought fiercely to protect the game’s integrity and future

· How he embraced pressure at a young age and still does to this day, and how and why it matters in the world of business, and in life. 

Transcript

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In that moment, I knew what I had to do. I knew I had to risk everything, and that I was going to put it on the line. And I had no issue with that. I had no fear about that. Welcome to Grey Matter. I'm Declan Kelly, Founder, Chairman and CEO of Consello. I've spent the last 30+ years advising the CEOs who are leading the world's top companies. If there's one thing I've learned in that time, the best leaders think differently. That wiring, that grey matter separates the truly exceptional leaders from everyone else. Understanding it is what allows us a Consello to help the best in the world be even better. This podcast exists because the most accomplished leaders agreed to sit down and talk about something they rarely discussed publicly, how their minds actually work. Jimmy Dunne of Sandler O'Neill, now Piper Sandler, is a giant in the business and finance and sporting world. But he would describe himself as a fighter, someone who shows up relentlessly for the people and the moments that matter most. On 9/11, his firm, Sandler O'Neill, was devastated when it lost 66 colleagues in the South Tower collapse. Jimmy attended every funeral, paid for every child's college education, and rebuilt the firm from the ground up. That same resolve shows up everywhere, including the world of golf, where he's fought fiercely to protect the game's integrity and its future. Jimmy Dunne’s story is a reminder that it isn't about how high you climb, but who and what you fight for, along the way. This is Grey Matter. Jimmy Dunne, thank you for coming with us on Grey Matter. It's such a privilege to be here. And great to see you. I've admired all you've done, so it's a pleasure. We are sitting here on the third floor of your wonderful home in Southampton, and we're going to take a walk around in a little while. Tell me what this room means to you. We were building this house and we had this extra area up here, and I said, well, why don't we build some bunk beds? Hopefully we'll have an overflow of young kids all the time. And so we built this upstairs and then I've really enjoyed a lot of the things that I've done. I've really enjoyed Notre Dame, golf, my family. And so I kind of just collected different things that were important to me. Mostly could be shared by your family or close friends, people that would be rooting for you. I would say no one's been up here that I don't think is rooting for me because it's fairly self-indulgent, but people appreciate it. And it's really about, it's about the experiences and how grateful I am and the friendships and how much we've shared over the years. As you know, what we're interested in in Grey Matter is how people think. So many different people know so many different things about you, given all you've achieved in your life. And I am always fascinated, given that we're both from the same Irish mafia. How much of that came from how you grew up? You've talked a little bit in the past about you’re upbringing. You didn't have it easy. When you were growing up, tell me about what that was like and some of the experiences you had that turned you into the way you are today. I had really different and interesting parents. I learned a lot from both. My mother was really old school, tough Irish. And my father was too with a little more softness to him. He felt that he had done things that if he had a chance to do it all over again, he would make sure that, he would have done it differently. And in a way, I became almost the beneficiary of that. Whether it was different things in business, in education, in personal life. We had a very open relationship. He was very tough. I learned a lot from him about a lot of different things, about how to analyze problems. I get most of the things that I've learned from people or observing. I'm a selective listener. My best friends say he's not a great listener. He's a selective listener. And so my father really taught me about that. He taught me a lot about getting an education. He taught me a lot about people. So they were tremendously important with my foundation. Your father talked about three things I've heard you say. One was education, the other was marriage and relationships. And the third was, never have any fear when you walk up to the first tee. Well, I think you've proven that that is certainly the case. Other than your faith, your health and your family. He felt the three most important things was, get into the best college you could get into. He didn't go to college. He felt that that really, really hurt him in the business community. In our house, the best school was Notre Dame. I mean, we were really an Irish Catholic Democrat family. And there was no debate about that. And so that was, in his mind, the top place. I can remember when I was in high school, my mother was dying. She had cancer and the hospital was not far from the high school. So I'd walk over there in the afternoon and I always appreciated she literally 15 hours before she died, she talked about, You listen carefully to your father and that's good because he's very smart. But, you know, you've got to make your own decisions and you gotta to make sure you go to Notre Dame because you want to go to Notre Dame. And I remember so vividly that was like the last, one of the literally, the last thing she said to me. And it was liberating in a lot of ways because I did want to go there because I felt of all the schools, it was the best school. And when I got there, I was fortunate to get in and I was determined to make it work. He wanted to have your eyes open. You know, marriage is tough and if you marry the wrong person, it's going to be tough. And so he had very strong views on that. And he opened my eyes to a lot of it. And I think I've opened my son's eyes to a lot of Those were two things that were very important. And he felt golf was instrumental. So getting good enough so that you weren't scared to death. And I did those three things very well. And they benefited my life dramatically. He was tough, but he was usually right. And I remember you saying that your mom wanted you to go to a very specific school. Wanted you go to Catholic school. Oh, yeah. And said that she would clean the floors at Grand Central Station for five bucks if she had to, in order to make that happen. Well, she was different. She was hard. She was, you know, hard Irish. She and I had a different kind of relationship. She was strong, so we battled. She sat me down and she basically said, look, this is how it is. And it's a, you know, tremendous honor that you can go there. She really, whether it was right or wrong, I knew enough to know I better give this more thought than I then initially thought. And she was right. And so I went to Saint Joseph's Grammar School, Saint John the Baptist High School, and Notre Dame. I'm a great believer in Catholic education, as we've talked about. Yeah. You decided to go caddying and the minimum age for caddying was 14. But something inside you decided you weren't going to wait that long. Well, I wanted money. Cash was a very liberating thing. And so I was 11, told everybody I was 14. And I’d get there and I’d get in that caddie yard. When you got seven bucks and 14 bucks or whatever you had. And the guy next to you I didn't have any, that was disposable income, that was valuable. My father really taught me to listen, listen carefully. There was a lot of things I learned in there about conducting yourself. I can remember vividly losing my temper and my partner then was this guy named Leroy Brown, who was a tough, tough guy. And he was real mad at me that I lost my temper because he felt that that put the match in jeopardy. And so he gave me some dressing down and I never forgot it. So I learned a lot about how you handle yourself, what's important in that caddie yard. And my sons both caddied as a result. And they had the same thing. One of the things you've talked about in the past is this concept of refined desperation. Leadership, without toxicity. You don't need to burn somebody in order to be successful. So many people in the world don't understand that. The roots of that, I think, seem to be in how you grew up in terms of respect, being at the center of everything that you've lived through your life. My parents were very, you treated everybody, you didn't look up and you didn't look down. You looked eyeball to eyeball with everybody. That was a wonderful lesson. One of the guys I grew up with, Chris Quackenbush, was my best friend who died in 9/11. I remember him, he was a brilliant guy. I mean he got, you know, 1550 on the SATs. I probably got half that. He was, you know, he was really a capable person. We worked in a bar together. He said, you know, I'm so much nicer to all of these guys than you are. But Jimmy, they all like you more than they like me. And I said, well, Chris, there's a reason for that. You know that this won't be your last job. You're the son of a doctor. You're unbelievably smart. You're going to go on to law school or something. With me, I don't know. I know one thing, I’ve got to make the best with what I got. And they get a sense that, not that you feel superior, but in a way, you do feel superior to them. And they get a sense of that. With me, they know they're just getting the authentic deal. I always feel that way. I never feel like I’m that far ahead of anybody. It's a great benefit when you don't look up and you don't look down, you just treat everybody equally. It served me well You said earlier that your father said to you, always listen very carefully. And you said, I'm a selective listener. I actually think most people who know you would say that you listen very carefully to what people are saying. Making decisions for yourself as to what you think is right or wrong. But you also have told your people listen like your life depends on it. So much of what I've learned, I've learned from other people. So much of what I've learned has been from observing. All the guys that worked for us or even my children, I'd say, you know, listen like your life depends on what this person is saying. And hopefully it's critical. I love when people disagree with me. I learn so much by listening and watching other people and remembering what they say and they do. I just felt like I was more advantaged to that than I would've necessarily in the full academic scale. I do this class up at Yale, I tell all the students if we have a straight academic analysis here with no pressure, just a straight empirical exam, there is a high likelihood that I would finish dead last. However, if we change the environment, if we made it like it was so much pressure that a normal human couldn't even breathe, that the tension would be out of control, and it would be like where you could actually see people break down. I would finish first because I really believe that the more difficult it is that grit is always going to serve me and has always served me. Now people can say, what an arrogant jerk. How can he, you know, how does he know that? Well, it doesn't matter whether it's right or not. It matters that I firmly believe that. I've always been of the mindset of the more difficult it is, my advantage goes greater. In every aspect of my life too, even younger when I probably didn't do things as well as I did. If I was ahead of the, you know, ahead of my group, I'd be more vulnerable then. I would be much better off from playing from behind. It's always the way I look at things. That's why I think to some degree, I was probably unusually suited for 9/11 in that respect. I was just about to say in 9/11, which obviously was the greatest tragedy of our lifetime. And you lived through it, and everybody knows all the things that you did, which are just absolutely remarkable. That moment, more than any other, defined what you just said as a human being. And everybody who knows you and loves you knows that. But nobody knows what it was like to be you then. What was it like to be you? I really believe that my makeup was particularly suited for that situation, for that moment. And whether or not it was or not. It doesn't matter, it matters that I believe that. I knew what I had to do. I knew I had to risk everything, and that I was going to put it on the line. And I had no issue with that. I had no fear about that. My wife, I told her we're going to lose everything. And I remember her body language was like, so what? And so I had tremendous support. I know for a fact that I'm incredibly indebted to people. Like being my pal, it's not the easiest thing in the world. There will be tension. There’s going to be angst. There's going to be situations. I will, I create tension. Now, I am good about apologizing about it. If I don't, I don't defend mistakes. There's no ego involved here. It's just that I firmly believe I'm right. Until that's disproven, I'm not going anywhere. Now, once it's disproven, which was a Herman Sandler-ism, you know, then I'm uniquely able to just say, okay, that's it, we move. Herman Sandler used to say that he used to love, who was the partner that was killed on 9/11, was my, really a guide, another person that I listened and learned a lot from. He used to say, that he used to love it if we'd get into an argument. There'd be a moment in the argument where it was apparent that I was wrong, and he'd say, that's when he loved it, because at that exact second that Jimmy found out he was wrong, he would say, you're right, I'm wrong. And then he’d, in a sense, take the victory away from the person because there was no debating it. I’d just say you're absolutely right. So when you say you're right, I'm wrong and you apologize, where do they go with it? And Sandler always felt that that was, he had a lot of trust in that ability. That it was not a matter of being right for the sake of being right. It was a matter that, we have a finite mission here. And once we've established what the way to go is, that's the way it has to be. That was all I would be interested in, but I would ferociously protect what I thought was right. So my feeling was when 9/11 happened, I really felt like I had an obligation to everybody that stood by me. My mother, my father, Joe Milan, the guy I used to caddie for, so many people, people that were supportive of me to get into Notre Dame. Everybody that stayed a friend to me, even at times where they would say, he's crazy or he's difficult or whatever he is. I felt this is the time I had to show up for them. And to me it was very simple. We were either going to survive or if it cost everything, so be it. That's the level of intensity that it was so critical that we had to do the right thing as we saw it. I know it sounds arrogant, but I felt that I was the right person at that time to be there. You bring that intensity to everything you do, but you also bring it in a way that people love because you're 100% authentic in every way. So the authenticity that you displayed during that period. going to all the funerals, resolving to pay for the college of every single child, of every single person who died, and seeing that through. And staying with all those families to this day. There is nobody that I've met that has the fortitude to be able to do that. It may be decades from now when people really think about what that moment was. But that was one of the greatest moments of heroism in America. I feel like a lot of people and I know it contradicts a little. That if they were In that moment, I think they would have risen or done what they had to do. It was very clear to me as to what to do. I think you have trouble when you have choices or you have a lot of options. We didn't have any of that. Whether or not we would be successful was very unclear. But how to behave was totally clear to me. The materialistic end that, has never been very important to me. I really got that from my parents. So that was never a problem for me. Some guys would have worried about that. I expected to lose everything, but I was alive. So I'm advantaged dramatically to my friends and partners that we're not in that situation and their families. So I felt like very lucky that we, I had the opportunity to do something and then unbelievably responsible to do everything I could. I was in a restaurant with you one time, you may not even remember this. The phone rang and it was somebody who needed your help, that was in a personal situation that was distressing. And you said, guys, I got to go take this. And you went outside and you talked to that guy for an hour, and then you came back in. You never said another word. What it was about. Nor was it anybody's business. But I know you do that today for a lot of people. And your friends really know who you are. What I'm fascinated by is how you've managed to keep the strength in everything you do throughout your life. Because you embrace everything in life with the same intensity. Whether it's playing cards, whether it's telling jokes, whether it's playing golf, whether it's whatever. And that is not learned. That is innate. I feel very fortunate to have had the parents I had, to be born in this country, to get the education that I got. I'm a non-drinking alcoholic. It's been 40 years since my last drink. And yet I'll go back, I can still think of the people that were helpful, really helpful to me. They weren't from high society. These were people that had rough and tumble times and I really understood different things that I learned from them. So the fact that people took the time, complete strangers took the time to help me, I am obligated to do the same for others. And by the way, when I do that, it's also helpful to me. That's true with a lot of us. Most people that are alcoholic, they would do the same thing. And I learned a lot about truth and reality from my alcoholism. I am deeply grateful and I have said this before, I don't know anyone that's had a more fortunate existence than me. Now sure, do I wish I had more skills maybe, and making more money or academically, I wish I could read faster and do those things. But even the things where I was limited to, I was able to turn those into positives. One of the things I love is your zebra model. The idea is that, there are two kinds of animals in the world. There's the slowest zebra and the fastest lion. And either one or the other both have to get up and run. So it isn't like the lion is that advantage because of the zebras that much faster he can outrun the lion. And I've always kind of viewed myself. I am much more comfortable viewing myself as the underdog, and frankly, there's usually good reason for me to consider myself the underdog. But I've got no problem with that. I enjoy that position because you're going to have to get up and get going. And the one thing I remember about 9/11, at that point in my life, if you did fall asleep, which was rare, when you woke up, I was out of the bed. Could be a good thing. You could be up to play Augusta National. So you'd want to jump out that morning to go. But every morning I was, the second my eyes opened, I was moving. And I appreciated that. I appreciated that opportunity. I appreciated I was still alive to have that opportunity. Right. And so I was going to take full advantage of it. Even then I remember thinking, walking to work those early mornings, that this, I may never have an opportunity like this again. Where it's that driven to get up and get going. It’s a matter how you look at things. You've got to really examine what is the best positive spin on this. When you're sitting with the people that work for you. Thousands of people who have worked for you over the years. And they sit there and they're in a room with you and you're sort of observing them. One of the things I know you've said in the past is you're looking for the one who listens more than talks, and when they listen, I want to see how well they listen. And given that we're really thinking about how you think, I think it's really interesting for people to know how you pick winners, not losers, but you pick winners. I do really believe that I was really better than average picking people and determine who had what. I would really try to make the person uncomfortable in the interview. That's shocking to me. Oh, yeah. No, I wanted them uncomfortable. Get them uncomfortable because that's what you're going to get. I'm not interested in how people are going to react when things are good. This writer for the Fortune magazine, very smart person, which was dangerous because she was writing a whole article on us. And I really didn't know what I was doing when I agreed to do it, which I've done that a lot. She was writing a story about us in 9/11. So she was around me a lot. It doesn't take me long to get comfortable and then it's going to fly. So most people would say why would you do that? Which would have been a good question. So she's writing this article. She's around, she's around, she's following and she's going down the elevator with another partner of mine and this kid that got on the elevator. And, of course, she's a reporter, so she said, oh, do you work at Sandler? And the guy says, well, I think I'm going to. And she says, well, really? Why? Why do you say that? Said, well, I just had an interview. She said, well, who'd you interview with? He said, well, I interviewed with Jimmy Dunne. He's the nicest guy I've ever seen. She looked right at him and said, you didn't get the job. He's always exceptionally nice to people he doesn't hire. He's unbelievably difficult to people he does hire. When they got down the elevator, my partner called me and he said, how well do you know this person that's following you around? I said, not at all. And he said, well, darn it Jimmy, you know, you better check this out because she's unbelievably smart. Following you around for three weeks, we could end up looking really bad here, you know. Everybody knows your association with golf. And you're famous the world over for everything you've done in golf. You view golf as a laboratory. Yeah. You've told me that. Yeah. Everybody says you can spend 4.5 hours with somebody and you'll get to know them on a golf course. I think we all know that. But you're talking about something very different, which I think is when you're talking to people, you're actually analyzing them while they're on the golf course and not waiting for them to reveal themselves. Golf is unique. I mean, you will learn, at least as far as I'm concerned, I can tell just about everything about a guy after a round of golf. How he reacts. Level of his intensity. What's important? When it gets uncomfortable, do you see a bad side of him? I've built a lot of relationships that way. And golf is unique that way because it's not always going to go well. So now how do you handle it? If I have the opportunity to play golf with someone then that's how I'll really get to know them best. People say you can go to dinner, and certainly you can do and watch how they treat people. But I honestly believe that when I play golf with someone, I can almost tell you whether he was a caddie or not growing up, because they’ll just, the way they do things, the way they interact. I like that quiet confidence in business. I know you always tease me about that refined desperation. I always felt like there was always tension in my eyes here and I would always want to look and make sure I saw that angst. Because if you didn't see that pain, if you didn't see that anxiety, they weren't really tested. If you're going to be with me, there's going to be tension. And there's going to be times where I'm saying that's stupid, which I shouldn't say, but I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying what you said was stupid. Now, most people can't deal with that. And you've got to have a reservoir of goodwill with your audience, with your people, where they feel like you’re not going to ask them to do something that they wouldn't ask you. Michael Jordan talked about that, and I thought he was so right about that. Sure, he was difficult. But no one questioned, was he willing to go to that extreme. That was a given. And I think people felt on a much lesser scale than Michael Jordan, but they felt that I would not ask them to do something that I wasn't, hadn't done in a multiple of. Ed Herlihy has told me about the round you played at Shinnecock, where you broke the course record, especially the back nine. And he was in the four ball. Yeah he was. Why I'm interested in that story is the unbreakable focus that it takes to do something like that, as an amateur. Knowing that it's possible. What's going through your head when you're going down 15, 16, 17, 18. I don't mean literally from a golf standpoint, but how do you stay calm? How do you meet the moment? Is it the same level of intensity and focus that you have in life and business? Or are you sitting there thinking completely different? Are you thinking anything at all? You have an opportunity to achieve something. I thought what your friend Shane Lowry he said to his caddie, we have an opportunity here to do something really special. on that round, which I believe, by the way, I don't believe that's the record. The record is Tommy Fleetwood, who shot 63 in the open. I shot 63 dancing around there with Herlihy and a couple other guys. I remember vividly when I made the putt on 12, not to take you through the whole round. I remember thinking, well I shot this on the front. You know, I made a hole in one on 11. I just buried 12. So that. Wait a minute. I'm six under. So I remember thinking, God, I have an opportunity now to do this. And of course, the first thing I did was hook it in the left, I was able to work it out made a birdie got through it. I guess I've always felt like the glass is half full on that stuff. When it doesn't go well, you take the lessons and you go from there. Whether it's a board meeting or an important conversation with my kids or whatever it is, I'm thinking about what I have to say and if I learn something in the process, I could change. But other than that, I'm pretty focused on let's get the next step done. And so I don't look too far ahead when I get into the circumstances. And also you got to take what you get. I remember I missed a putt on the 16th hole, poorly. And my caddie just said if you're going to play that gutless, I'm just going to go in. That was, and he was like he was really unhappy. And that kind of relaxed me a little bit. I said, well, I'm not going to do that again. What I do is I appreciate the opportunity. I feel good about, that I've got a chance and I do the very best I can. I think one of your best moments out of the 9/11 was when you went and gave testimony to Congress around the whole unification of golf, LIV golf, all the things around that. Without getting into all the other puts and takes that moment, you're sitting there all alone. Yep. Everyone else has disappeared, frankly. Yeah. And you're there, and you have to give testimony. It wasn't your fault that you had to give testimony. You were just asked. So you turned up and did your thing. That was a hell of an experience to have to go through. I remember watching every second of it as if I was sitting right beside you, and it really showed people how you think, because there were scripted moments and then most of it was unscripted. Yeah. What was that like? Well, that was not pleasant. It's almost like out of the movies, they say they're going to come

and get you 10: 27:27

00 and it's about 18 to 10. And I'm thinking to myself, how did I get myself into this situation? And I was extremely uncomfortable. The room was very uncomfortable. Someone had put a story in that did not make the testimony easier, the day before. They talked about the lack of governance and this and that. They had leaked the story in the Washington Post, which got my lawyers very, very upset. What made it extra hard is that I knew that my kids were really going to watch this, and I'm capable of saying things. And if I come off as something that really comes out badly. But I also felt like, look, I know what I've done here. And if they have to examine what my intention or resolve was, I have a, I’m crystal clear that I know what I was trying to do and what I did. When they have the ability to go through all of your emails, everything, and they're finding something to make you look bad, it's not a fair fight. But you were proven right. Oddly enough, and this is a good example, that was a very good thing for me because people watched it and they said, what did this guy do? He said, let's go meet with the other side. I liked him a lot. I thought his intentions were good. I thought we could get a deal done. It's just then it was rolled out poorly in terms of there wasn't a deal. What I learned about that is just about everybody involved had only their own interests involved. And that's what made it really, really difficult to get something done. But the whole dynamic of being in front of Congress, it was really uncomfortable. But I'm really glad it happened because of the way it all worked out. I got home I said to my wife, how did you think I did? She said, oh, you were great. And I said, you didn't watch it, did you? And she just sort of looked sheepishly. And so that made me feel better because like before, we had not really talked about it at all. I finally sat her down and I said, look, you got to understand something. These people, they're not interested in the truth. This guy has an agenda. Blumenthal. And he's got, his whole thing is just to embarrass me. He's got all my texts and all my emails. And she asked, well, who's in charge? And I said, you know, I said it was Senator Blumenthal. And I remember she just like she well, he's in for a surprise. Like she had unabashed confidence. Meryl Witmer, unabashed confidence. My brother in law, Bob Moore. Their unique, different belief helped me. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't get too comfortable because that's when I could let one fly. The prep that the lawyers did, it was miserable. What they do to prepare you, it's just unbelievable. But it got me into the right place. At the end of it, I had come out and the senator came over and he said, Mr. Dunne, you're an articulate and convincing witness. And I was in such, still in my head, that's not a question. So I just looked at him and he said, I really think that down deep, we're not that far apart. That's not a question. So I was in that kind of mindset. I was in a completely non-conversational discipline. And then he said, I really don't believe we’re that far apart do you believe that? Now that's a question. I said, well, no, Senator, I think that down deep, neither of us want the game to be turned over to any other country or any other foreign body. The only difference is I've got a plan that could make them be a very productive participant, and it could be good for everybody. You, on the other hand, are almost going to guarantee that we won't get anything done and it'll be problems for years to come. That's the difference between you and I. Two more questions. What's your most special moment on a golf course that's ever happened to you? My son won a tournament. Seamus was competing hard, and he made a really hard putt on the 16th hole. And he got it in the fairway on 17 and made par on 17. Made par on 18. And just that joy that he had that would be probably my happiest. And if you think back to how you grew up, where you grew up and all the things that you've learned in your life, can you believe the life you've lived? No. And if your parents were alive today, what they would think of you and what you've done? I often think of that. I've had such opportunity. I had the finest education a person could avail themselves to. Saint Joseph’s, Saint John's, University of Notre Dame. I have the most wonderful friends. Herman Sandler, Chris Quackenbush, Ed Herlihy, Tim Neher, I mean, people like this, you know, are just extraordinary. And I have a close relationship with them. Stan Druckenmiller, Ken Langone, Chuck Witmer. I mean, my father, I always remember him saying that he felt he only had one good friend in his life. And he looked at me and he just said, Jimmy, you are going to have a lot of good friends. You and I are different. And I remember I always appreciated that, and I think he would have liked that. He would have loved the golf. He would have loved that I'm still involved with Notre Dame. We all love Notre Dame. He would have loved that. He would have loved that I'm still playing golf. I got fired, I remember I did something incredibly stupid, and I did a couple of really dumb things and I got fired. It was appropriate that I got fired, and I was just humiliated and it was awful. And I was home and he called me. I was in West Gilgo Beach. And I told him, yeah, I did this. And he said, wait a minute Jimmy, it's October 5th or whatever it was, it's a sunny day. Go out and play golf. You're losing this whole day. He did have a respect for grit. I might not have a high IQ, but I have a high grit. Both of them would’ve appreciated loyalty. They appreciated that you also didn't take yourself too, too seriously. He always had that Douglas MacArthur poem about Build Me A Son. And in the end, it said, and after all these things add in enough of a sense of humor so that he will always be serious, but never take himself too seriously. And that was very important to him. I am so grateful to you for sharing your thoughts and your time, there truly is nobody in the world like you. Ao thank you very much Jimmy and I really appreciate everything. This room. Super special. Not many people have been up here. I’m very privileged and honored. There's so many artifacts. Hundreds of them. All from your life. Different things. Let's walk and talk. This is sort of interesting. The guy I used to caddie for got me started on this. And the manager of the club sent me a letter and said that he had done these things for me. And what they were were my father and I won the father-son in ‘74, ’75, ‘76, and then again in ‘79. And so he had these things made up. It was kind of a wonderful deal. And then when I got that idea, Chris and I won the Four Ball tournament in September of 2000. And then we did play in ‘01. And then a week later, he was dead. These swords are from West Point. And I was, privileged enough to go up and speak to the junior class that were all going to Iraq. I asked them how many of these men and women will be deployed? They said 100%. Wow. It was on a leadership thing. And I talked, did my best. And they gave me that, which I really, really appreciated. I am a member of a lot of golf clubs, so I have- How many? Too many. It's hard to win even the little club events you play in. Whether it was Garden City or qualifying for the Senior Amateur or just different momentos over the years of things that have happened. And this is all Seminole related. I love Seminole. I think it's the finest golf club in the world. I thought of that before I became president, by the way. It's a unique place. It's just really special. And, I'm grateful every day I go in there. That was a gift from Stan Druckenmiller at Oakmont and Ben Crenshaw in my little room during the Masters. And different things, Tokyo Golf Club. This was the butcher block table from the restaurant in the World Trade Center. Wow. It had come all the way down. I don't know how he got it, but he got it. And different momentos from Chris and Herman. And they wrote an article and that was the picture they’d taken. That's how the kids were. That was how young they were. And they were great, though. They were a great source of strength. This was an interesting, beautiful painting. Someone sent it to me. And so I wrote her back and this and that, and I tried to pay something because I thought it was really beautiful. And a friend of mine had come up and it was like maybe three months after 9/11. And he asked me, Jimmy, where did you get this painting? A woman sent it to me from Atlanta. And, you know, she wouldn't take any money or anything else. He looked at and he said, that's my sister. Wow. This is the Muirfield in Scotland. It’s one of the great golf courses, great places in the world. And they had a history of captains that were legendary, and they all behaved in a unique way. And there's lots of stories. And anyway, the club was putting up the desk for sale. I told the woman and Mrs. Mustard was in charge. I wanted to bid on it and hopefully buy it. And she called me. She said, well, we got some good news and bad news for you, Mr. Dunn. And I said what's the good new. She said, well, the good news is you were the high bid. In fact, you were the only bid. She said the bad news is it's going to cost you more to ship it than it did. I said, well, I’ll handle that. This fella I grew up caddying with, his name was Joe Milan. I learned a lot from him. He was a tough, big, big gambler. And gamblers are incredibly honest, the real ones. And so I really learned a lot about behavior from this guy. And when I had gotten one of my early bonuses, I took him out to play Cypress Point. Whatever it was, 30 years later, we went back. By then I was a member and I was proud and he loved it. And then this is a lot of Notre Dame paraphernalia, different things. This was my dad. That must be Seamus. So that's Seamus. And when he was first born. Actually, he and I were fishing over down about an hour from here. We went fishing up where we grew up in Babylon, Long Island. And this is his foot locker. My sister gave me that. His foot locker from the army. So we got a lot of fun things. And it's all deeply personal. You can only take somebody up here that does root for you. You really are surprised how few people and I have more than most and I'm grateful. It takes a lot really to root for somebody else. That's true. People that root for you, I'll take them up here and they enjoy it. I'm rooting for you every day. All right, brother. Thank you very much.