We Made Our Bartender the Manager… Here’s What Happened 😳 | With Special Guest Jessica Ray!

What really happens when a bartender suddenly becomes the one running the entire bar? In this episode of the Sweat Equity Podcast, we sit down with Jessica, the manager of Rabbit Hole, to talk about her journey from full-time bartender to bar manager.
We break down what it’s really like behind the scenes — the pressure, the unexpected challenges, the leadership lessons, and the moments that made it all worth it. Was the transition easy… or way harder than it looks? And what actually changes when you go from serving drinks to running the entire operation?
We also talk about shifting from a corporate-style system to a more relaxed, culture-driven environment, what works, what doesn’t, and how it impacts the team, the bar, and the customers. Jessica gives the raw, unfiltered truth about stepping into management and what she wishes she knew before taking the role.
If you've ever wondered what it takes to move from behind the bar to running it, this episode gets real.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right, we will do our prayer. Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for this opportunity to glorify your name by serving others. We thank you for all the opportunities that you give us and we just pray that we continue to be led by you and uh thank you for every opportunity that we get and we just th uh pray that we can just do our best with this and then people hear what they need to hear and you want them to hear and continue to help us grow what we're doing. In your name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

All right, guys. Welcome to another episode of the Sweat Equity Podcast brought to you by M4D Concepts. We have our special guest here today, Jessica. And as you guys know, Jawan and KP behind me. My name is Chris, and today we're just going to be talking a little bit about what it takes to make a transition from behind the bar into a manager role from experience with Jessica and kind of making a transition from being a small business owner to essentially adding businesses to it. So how important it is that you have structure behind it and systems, which if you guys remember in the first couple podcasts, systems was one thing that we kept trying one thing that we kept trying to drive home and just stress the importance of. I think that we've done a really good job of putting those systems in place, and Jessica has been a part of them. So we just wanted to invite her on in Bailey's absence and talk to her a little bit about how it's been because this is something that she's passionate about, but it's also opened up other doors for her being a part of our team, and uh, we just wanted to talk a little bit about that and how we have made that transition with her. Um, and we don't like to call ourselves corporate. I think there's uh kind of a stigma stigma on the word corporate because it's almost like you sold out in a way. It's like you remember your old favorite band that you felt like you were the only person that's ever heard of them, like Blink 182, and then all of a sudden they sign the contract and everybody hates them. Well, you sold out, you sold out. Like, why wouldn't you want the best for your favorite band? Same thing for us. You know, we've we've added another business, we're about to open Seared, and therefore, they're just there's so much work that is required to run not just one bar, but to run four bar restaurants that you have to have a team around you, and you have to have people that are um smarter than you and better at things that you are to be successful, in our opinion. And so I think that that's just one of our leading um assets and that helps us to be successful is the people we put around us.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah. Man, I remember the first time we had a meeting, and I was like, does anybody have the agenda? Y'all looked at me like I was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Y'all remember KP comes from the corporate world. She um worked for one of the more, you know, really one of the world-renowned hospitals that happens to be here in Fort Worth Cook Children's Hospital, and she ran and and I believe you started the media. Started social media at a bar and the media there for her. So they are obviously in a hospital, super, super structured. Everybody has an agenda. They probably already know exactly what they're going to talk to or talk about in a meeting. Whereas me, Juwan, and Bailey, we're, you know, we were a little loose ends. You know, we we ran a little, we ran a loose program, but a tight ship.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Yeah, as I like to say. It worked, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

It does get harder once you add more places. Yeah. It really does. And somebody like KP coming in had, you know, she has a lot of anxiety uh when things aren't more structured, and so it has been a bit of an adjustment period for her as well. But she's obviously fallen into our ways, and we have fallen into her ways. And again, I think that just speaks to what we were I I just said is having people around you that are smarter than you and better at some things than you are, and that's how we are now able to have manager meetings with Jessica and the other managers every week, and they're structured. We know what we're gonna get, and we've got them down from an hour down to about 25 minutes now. So for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

I want to hear from Jessica. Like, how does it feel coming out from behind the bar? Like, you still have your Friday shift, but you were working every single day.

SPEAKER_05 4:00

So it's a good I like it's a good break. Like, I like having Friday still, so I can still because it's sad leaving all of your regulars, I would say. So at least I still have that one day. Um it's just totally different. I enjoy it a lot. I was a little bit hesitant, but I think like coming from corporate, it's so different because I feel like y'all are actually my friends, yeah, and I feel like we have like a little family. I'm so sweet. I'm putting myself in there, sorry. But like when you're in corporate, it's not like that. Like you're replaceable so fast, you know, and y'all want to see me thrive, whereas if you don't make it, you're cut basically. So it's been um experience, but a good one.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah, because you come from a pretty big corporate chain business. You've been you bartended with us for a couple years, but you were with with them for a bit. And what's kind of what's the difference between the way we run things or like bartending at rabbit hole versus bartending at a more corporate place?

SPEAKER_05 5:03

A lot. Um one, people aren't down your throat 24-7. I would say y'all have trust in us to do our job, you know, and if y'all do need to step in, you know, we make that happen, but just suddenly not being down your throat and trusting that you can get the job done, like believing in us.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Um I think Juwan can probably chime in on that a little bit too, because you came from a very corporate background as well. And in a way, you've come from different places that are you know small business owned as far as uh you know buttons and uh chef Keith Hicks. Keith Keith Hicks, uh, you know, very famous chef here in Fort Worth, and Juwan got to work underneath him, but then he took a move to a very corporate company called the Keg Steakhouse that's based out of um uh Canada. And how was that moving from a small business owner to a corporate? Because you worked there for five, six years? Yeah, I mean yeah, five, five, six years, yeah. Yeah, and then coming into Matt Hatter and then transitioning into an owner, how was that? And what do you feel like that you've been able to bring from the corporate world to here? That's a good question for the both of you. What do you guys feel like you've brought from the corporate world, especially now you being an owner and a leader?

SPEAKER_03 6:15

So I guess like for me it's kind of different, nothing against them, but like they're like more of like a sports corporate bar for us. Like it was fine, not fine dining, but fine dining service. So you have to like be very personable. You got three table sections sometimes. If you're a trainer, you got four table sections.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Um but you have you're actually you're actually able to interact with the guests, and I kind of what it brought to this side, like for the reason why Matt hadn't rabbit hole worked so well for me. I feel like because I was able to take what I learned from the keg, you know, being able to, you know, upsell somebody, being able to talk with somebody, get to know them, kind of help them enjoy themselves even more, bring that hill. I f I feel like this just kind of brought me to where I am now. Um over there, believe it or not, they are corporate, but they are still kind of more laid back. You got the you weren't allowed to hang out with the managers unless we have like the big events like you know, Keg Cup, um big softball tournament, and then they also had Keg Honors, which is uh I think of the Oscars, but it's actually a manager gets manager gets chosen, server gets chosen, bartender gets chosen. Actually, they win awards and they actually win prizes as well, too. That's like yeah, that's actually pretty cool. So it's kind of one of the things that it was core, but they kept it a fun fun corporate, like they weren't down your throat. So like you've been there with me. I think you all are with me as well too. Like that they're like even with me being off in there, not working there anymore, like they let us walk in the kitchen, talk to the talk to the kitchen staff, talk to their service and stuff like that. And they're actually I don't know, like they're actually pretty cool with all that stuff, I guess you're gonna say. But yeah, what bringing it to this world is kind of I feel like uh people actually get to see the side of uh you that you want to be, but also give great service as well too. Like I'm not saying be two different people, but yeah. Very duplicitous. Very duplicitous.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Very duplicitous. That's the bird of the day, is duplicitous. And speaking of duplicitous, I guess I'll ask Jessica this too. How do you feel like it's been for you to be able to balance that manager role where you have to you have to demand some respect in that role versus the Jessica that you get to be behind the bar, the fun, outgoing, joking around. I heard I was talking to Lexis the other day and she said, Man, I just love how Jessica will look at some of her customers and just be like, shut up. And they just laugh at it and think it's the funniest thing in the world, which is, you know, when you're being a when you're, you know, you got your manager hat on, you can't just look at people and tell them to shut up as much as you want to. You have to, you know, have a structured, thought-out conversation with them. And how has that been? And how do you feel like that you've gotten respect from the staff for moving out from behind the bar? Because I feel like people always kind of envy that in a little bit, and again, kind of sold out in a way. Um, how do you feel like that that's traded you so far?

SPEAKER_05 9:06

I think it was hard at first. I feel like it I at every job, anybody that moves up, it's hard to have respect for them because they were at the same level as you. So I think just with time, um definitely not at first. I feel like I had to work for it and like I'm still that same person that likes to have fun. Like I'm not trying to be down anyone's throat. I still want them to think, you know, I still want the bar to be fun just because I'm at a higher position. Um, I think we're all able to switch our characters very easily. So um yeah, it's fun to have that one day to just goof off a little bit, but yeah, definitely during the week.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

I think one thing that I've really respected, and I think part of this maybe comes from your your corporate background, but for me, a lot of times I'm almost a little soft sometimes, or even make excuses for them. Well, they probably had this going on or they had this going on, and you check that real quick because you're like, it's their job. Like they're we we shouldn't be like babying them or anything like that because I tend to make excuses for people, and but you're you're like, no, this is what they're paid to do or paid to do. We're not gonna put up with it.

SPEAKER_05 10:13

It was weird at first, especially like when it came to scheduling when I first came over there. Um before like this position even came about, you know, like somebody was having a bad day or something, and then KP's trying to get their shift covered, and I'm like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. So cool though, if you want a day off. But if your shift doesn't get picked up, you have to work that shift. Like that's I've never seen anything, so it's crazy to see.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

And it was good to hear that from you because, like, I don't know why I'm that way. I guess because I'm just really big into mental health and stuff like that. So I do know that that's you know, that's a whole other podcast about the mental health struggle in the this country. But I, you know, very respectful of that. So I feel like if somebody has opens up to me about it, that it's something that I just kind of have a little bit of a big heart for it. But then like to be checked by you is is actually very refreshing because I am like I back up and I'm like, dude, I have mental health days all the time. I'd love to stay home, and I still get up and come in, and it's you know part of life and what we do. We can't just stay home every day. Yeah, exactly. We can't just stay home or whatever. So I'm actually it's actually you know failing them almost by being like, okay, yeah, I got this covered. Yeah, and I don't want to be called the bar mom, so don't be the freaking bar mom.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

It's kind of the reason why they went to you though, because they understood like, okay, get back to work. Like that's that's really how it is. Like when you're in this industry, you find somebody who do cover for you. You are otherwise kind of like that's up to you, but they found I'm not calling you soft, they found the soft spot. And it's just like, well, that's where I'm gonna go. And for you, I don't know, it's a culture shock. I remember you telling me that I was like, yeah, we we kind of got that, we kind of got that. And it wasn't a bad thing, but at the same time, yeah, they were using it for a little bit. There's pros and cons to it.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Now it's just great because I'm like, don't text me. You need to text stress out.

SPEAKER_05 12:06

And it just puts more stress on you than anything. Like, out of everybody, you're the one stressed out.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Well, and I think also with KP coming from that corporate world, um, it was she learned so much in such a little amount of time to where she was almost hesitant to be that strict, no, you need to get there. No, it's easier to be, because she's a very kind and caring person, so it's easier to let that side come out, especially when you have somebody that's kind of opening up to you and letting you know what's going on. Of course, there's those circumstances where you're like, girl or guy, I got you. Yeah, I'll get your shift covered. There are those circumstances, but you know, we come from a world and growing up to where um, you know, if if you are damn near dead, you're going to school, yeah, your bills don't get paid if you don't go to work. And if like Juwan said a second ago, if it's your shift, you get it covered or you drag your butt to work, and that's just the way it was. And so I think for KP, I feel like, and you stop me if I'm wrong, just like maybe when you stepped into that management role, there's a little, there's a want for people to like you. You don't want to be that bad cop when you have a good cop, you always want to be that compassionate person and things like that. But I think KP learned very quickly that they will exploit that and use it to their advantage because the bar world is, I mean, it can be pretty cutthroat, be pretty ruthless, and people will use you, abuse you, and lie to you. You know, it could be, oh my gosh, I'm having the worst day ever, and then come to find out later on that afternoon, you find out they were out until three o'clock in the morning drinking, yeah, and then it makes you look stupid because you went out on a limb for them. And I think that that's where I we've done a really good job of setting our boundaries, letting our staff know what we're expecting of them, and moving forward with that. And she's done an incredible job of handling herself and making that transition to a boss, really, essentially a boss, because the job has to get done. If you're not there, it doesn't get done. And and I think that y'all both done a really good job of getting that across and letting people know. Juwan and I come from, if we don't go to work, our bills don't get paid. That's just flat out it. If we don't go to work, our rent don't get paid, our light bill gets cut off, our phone bill's late, we ain't got nothing to eat. That's the world that we come from. You know, you guys have been blessed to have a great family behind you, a wonderful husband, you've got a wonderful husband. So there is that little bit of second income as well. But as a 20, 30-year-old bartender, it's you know get after it. It's getting after it.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

So yeah, a tired day, you don't have to stay home. Absolutely. It's a tired day.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

I'll um what do you think the benefits, what do you, what do you feel like the the upside, the stepping out from behind the bar? Because for me, I always told myself, I gave myself an age. 35 was that age. It was 32, and I had to push it back. Um push it back a little bit. But I always told myself, hey, if I'm still bartending at 35 years old, I'm quitting. I'm done. I may have to go part-time for a little bit, but I'm finding another job. I don't care if I have to go back and start as a bank teller, I'm finding some sort of corporate job to where I can have structure, I can have insurance, I can have a 401k, and I'm not up till 4 o'clock in the morning every night, killing my knees, killing my back, killing my feet. And just honestly, to be quite frank, seeing some of the people that we know in our lives that are still 50, 55 years old bartending. There is nothing wrong with bartending. But it for me personally, that is not what I saw as my future and as my career.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

It's just not what you wanted. It's not what I wanted. Nothing against people that do want it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

That's not what you want. So, what do you think that that's been for you? What do you think the upside, maybe the biggest upside and the biggest downside for you?

SPEAKER_05 15:58

Um, I think I was in your position too. Like I was getting a little nervous. I I'm not old by any means, but I'm getting older. And um I was easy to I was nervous because I mean, I haven't I don't have any backup plans. And um at my old job, I was offered management, but you're literally a slave to the job. You're you know what I mean, you're there sun up to sundown, and I knew that's not what I wanted. Um so here I was lucky to have the opportunity, and I think mainly that is because my kids, um, you know, I was working nights and my kids still have to go to school in the morning, so I would get home at 3 a.m. and still have to be up at 6 15. My kids still have to go to school. Um, so with this job very flexible, you know, y'all understand that I have kids, and that's something we talked about before y'all even gave me the position. Um so grateful. I feel like I could cry to be able to spend time with the kids.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah. Yeah, you went from like you.

SPEAKER_05 17:01

Just being able to go to their school kids and like stuff I wasn't able to do before, to be able to be like, hey, can I go rent this real quick and everybody can find with it?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

It's it's yeah, it's a blessing. It's huge because well, I you went from especially you were at happy hour at one point too, and after happy hour you went to the mornings, which gave you a little more time. But when you're at that happy hour um time, whatever, you're going in at like 12 or 1. So you wake up in the morning, you take your kids to school. You we all know we don't hang out with our kids in the morning. We're just we're grateful to survive to just get them there, right? But then when you're getting off at 7, you're not actually getting off at 7. You're doing all your closing duties, so you're getting home at 8:30, and our age kids are bedtime. So you have five days a week that you literally see your kids for probably 20 minutes, and they need you. Yeah. So it's huge to go from, I mean, I imagine that shift was really, really hard.

SPEAKER_05 17:55

So and it was, and I um, you know, it was more like it's a good shift, so it was like a compromise I had to make with myself, and also the kids have sports every weekend, so it was nice at least to have the weekends off to spend with them because you know, most jobs they're never gonna give you the weekends off bartending, like it's not gonna happen. So yeah, it's just been a give and take.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

And those are your money-making shifts, so you kind of have to. And you know, I always tell people that you know, obviously, I'm an I'm a dad as well, and I always told people, I'm like, you know, they'll never maybe not never, but most kids will not say, Hey, thanks, Dad, for being at my game. It's expected. Hey, thanks, mom, for being at my softball game. But the second you miss it, hey dad, where were you today? Hey mom, why'd you miss my game? Yeah, had to work. And I think that all of us can relate to exactly the emotions that you just had because you know, Riley being as young as she is now and starting to get older. How old were you when you started in 21? In uh in 2021. How old was Riley? Oh, she was two. She was two. Yeah so KP was also blessed now that she can pick her daughter up from school. She gets to take her to school, she gets to put spend evenings with her, Juwan. The same thing. He's now able to pick them up, spend the entire weekends with them. Same thing for me, except for I was still in the bartending world living the life that you were living, and I had to compromise those as well. You know, where my days were Tuesday, Thursday, and the weekends every other weekend with her. Well, sometimes those didn't work out.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

You know, because I had to work, because if I didn't work, I didn't have rent. And then we have nowhere to live. And so to be able to step out from behind the bar and get away from that rigorous schedule that it can be, um, I think is a blessing. So I think that we can all feel you and feel the emotion that you just had because it's allowed us to spend the time that we enjoy with our kids. And Juwan got it essentially right in on the tail end of one of them coming into her teenage years, and now another one coming into her teenage years. And for me, you know, like I said, it was just always a blessing to be able to go to Cadence's basketball game if it was 11:30 on a Tuesday morning because every now and then they'll have these random schedules for high school games. And I was able to be there, and I was one of the only parents that were at these games. And I think that that just speaks to entrepreneurship and the ab uh the ability it gives you to have such a flexible schedule. And then, like you said, we're all very flexible, we're all parents, and so if you say, Hey, Xander's got something going on, I need up, you know, I need to take this afternoon early, or I'm I'm gonna be a little bit late into the office. I've got, you know, they've got a presentation at school, you have that now, and and you're not dragging your butt around because you're dead tired because you didn't get home until three o'clock in the morning. Absolutely. And Bailey is soon to learn that. Yeah, but fortunate for Bailey is she's not, you know, gonna have that experience. You know, she's bartended, she's done it, but now she's gonna really just be able to enjoy being a mom as well. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

I don't yeah, I don't know how people do it. Like, I think about it all the time. I'm like, the job I had before was 8 30 to 5 30. You didn't have, I need to leave for an hour to go pick up my kid, find somewhere for them to go and come back. That's not how it is. So I'm like, how do these people do it?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Me too. I I always think about you, honestly, and I don't mean this in a bad way, because you have so much going on during the days, your doctor's appointments, things like that. I always think about that. You get it, you know, when you get up, hey, I'm going to get Riley. I always think about that. What if she was still at Cook? Oh, yeah. What if she was still at Cook? Like again, what you guys just described that eight o'clock in the morning, getting them off to school, and then Nick would probably have to pick her up at that point. Yeah. Um and he's got a full time job. So maybe you would have to hire an Andy. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 21:48

I'm lucky that I wasn't dealing while I was dealing with it, but didn't realize I didn't have as many health issues like autoimmune and all that stuff until a little bit later when I was on my own. I don't know how I would have done it when I was at Coke Children's. I'd you know, because you would get Talk to, but I will say, like, I even had a jet gut check last night, like going into this. Like it was Riley's bedtime. Now, granted, she just doesn't want to go to bed because she's a night owl like me. She's a kid and she's a night owl, so she doesn't want to go to bed. So she said this a little bit out of a spite, but it was also a gut check for me because she said, You never want to play with me at night because you're always working. And I was like, It's not like I'm not always working, but I will remember something and I'll go into my office and sit down and do it real quick, which turns into an hour because that's just what my brain does. No, I do, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

And granted, I feel like I've been a lot better.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

And that's why it's I preface that that by saying she said it because she also just doesn't want to go to bed. Gotcha. But it did like it's just a good, you know, a good check on me to remember that, you know, when we get home at four and until she goes to bed at 8 30, just spend more time with her. But you know, because you also just don't know when that's yeah, there could be a time in life that that's not an option.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

So you tend to use it now. Um months back that five o'clock laptops shut up, don't work, pass in, spend your time with your daughter, spend your time with your husband, because that's something that they're very passionate about is family time. And yeah, and um, you know, we just got in a conversation and where she was just kind of the same thing. It was like she's trying to watch a football game, but she's you know doing this the whole time. And you know, Nick, her husband, is a wonderful man, but he's like, Babe, hang up and hang out. You know what I mean? Like you're you're spending all day Sunday working here, your daughter's not getting played with this, that, and the other. And I think that was also a gut check because we had that we had that conversation, and I just I told her, you know, make make me a promise that at five o'clock, unless it's a dire emergency, your laptop goes shut, then we don't need to hear from you about work again. Yeah. She still messages about work, but it has gotten significantly better. I mean, 95% better.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

And that's why I try to work from home on Thursday, because that's when I get all that like little stuff done that I can't get done here, because it's just concentration stuff. Or we just start talking about strategizing and stuff. We just get off topic. So that's why I I try really hard to do that, and then on Fridays try to work some from home too.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

But what do you think the biggest downfalls have been for you coming coming back behind from behind the bar into this world? Or are there any?

SPEAKER_05 24:19

I don't I I don't think I have any.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

You get to wear normal people's clothes. So you gotta deal with me every day.

SPEAKER_05 24:26

I have to deal with Juan every day. Wearing normal people's clothes probably is a downfall for me. Um because it's not leggings and a t-shirt.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yeah, and her and I are a lot, I mean, I think we're all alike. We all love our comfortable clothes, so um, that is definitely a downfall on podcast day where I have to wear normal shorts. Actually, I've gotten better. I've tried to wear, you know, not gym shorts every day. You told me to stop doing it.

unknown 24:49

I kept doing it.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

What? Gym shorts. Yeah, well, you know, the thing is in a lot of instances is perception is reality, and we have so many meetings throughout the day, and so many reps, and so many people that come in throughout the day, and then we have staff members, and it's really hard to continuously look like a bum and and and demand people's respect. You know what I mean? Yes, we're entrepreneurs, so we can wear what we want, and we don't have to wear suit and ties every day, and we don't have to wear heels to work every day and things like that, but we do have to maintain a sense of professionalism, and I think that we've done a really good job of that. We've gotten away from everyday gym short shorts and me and tank tops because I used to just wear tank tops all summer long. We won't even see you in tank tops anymore. Uh it's not summer yet. No, but like she said, I you know, I really tried to get away from that because when I when I do have these encounters that require me to put on my boss hat or, you know, my entrepreneur hat, I want to be respected, and that does go into it. When people look at you, they judge you, and they and they demand, they figure out how much respect that they're gonna give for give you and how much they're gonna demand from you just by looking at you sometimes. And whether that be fair or not, which I don't think it is, um, that's just the way the world works. Yeah, it's just the way the world works. And dressing nice opens up more opportunities as well, you know, and that is just the truth. I mean, it literally is. It's like wearing a nice watch. Wearing a Rolex will get you into conversations that wearing an Apple watch will not be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

It's funny he says it because there was that gala on Friday.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

I was gonna say, what's a billex showing up to a gala and you're you're dressed down clothes?

SPEAKER_00 26:33

We might as well have a dunce hat on.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Well, later on, she was she apologized, she didn't know the the tires well too, but still, like what he means by that, like the way you dress, is that the moment we got there, of course, we were like, oh man, everybody's dressed up. I'm right. We weren't dressed like buns, but I mean I had on shorts, he had on shorts, both had on t-shirts. Everybody else was in like business too or like business. Wore branded shirts, the straight-in-up guy goes, man, I had a rabble hole. What's that? He means beatier like, oh so I wanted to left that mark of like, man, they dress like this all the time, or like, no, these guys, you know. Eventually you tell them that we own the business, they're like, oh, that's kind of cool. They own the business, they dress pretty much. They don't change, I guess, in the way. That's why I'll try to look at both sides. Hey, they don't change for anyone, which is understandable, but at the same time, something like that, you want to be at least have on pants.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

I bet y'all thought about it a lot more than anybody else did. So but it is going back to that, that that is the reality of our world. It is it's in everything you do. If you are a, I don't want to necessarily say a better-looking person overall, but what we do know is it's just like in the media. It's interesting. If somebody is not dressed the part or, you know, isn't what the average person should look like, they get less media attention for something that's gone on than if they were the epitome of, you know, just the unattractive person. Look at news people. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Look at the news. I mean, these chicks that are doing the weather now are like models, they're smoking hot. You know what I mean? They're not the old school.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

And the men too, like they're attractive men.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

For sure, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

It's it's the reality of our world.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Man, and to me, I just want to, y'all remember that. I mean, it's gone viral and everybody's seen it. It's that picture of Adam Sandler in his sweatpants and a t-shirt eating pickles out of a jar walking down Hollywood Boulevard. That's how I want to live my life. But I need to get to that point to where I can, and you know, whereas, yes, I can do that now, but it I'm not quite there, yeah, you know, professionally to get that to that point. I don't have Adam Sandler money. And um, you know, I'm sure y'all saw this is a little off topic, but I'm sure y'all saw that deal where his daughter went into, I think like Chanel or one of those like Birkenbag type stores in on Hollywood Boulevard and or Belly Hill, wherever it was, and she was dressed about about like Adam Sandler, gym clothes, baggy shirt, comes in, and the lady looks at her and says, Ma'am, can you please put that down? Uh those are for paying customers only and people that can afford them. She gets on the phone and calls her dad. Adam Sandler shows up and buys one of everything in the store. And and called the lady out. Said, I I like how you um so you judge people by the way they dress. Well, who's the other commission person here? You? Cool. Get me one of everything.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Oh, okay. I was about to say I'm surprised you bought anything, but that maybe well you went into a local golf shop and that kind of happened to you. Oh, local what? A local golf shop. Oh, yeah, we've done, yeah. Well, I don't even want to know. So because y'all weren't the individual.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Told me about it, and then I witnessed it in person because the way we were dressed another day. Well, we dressed kind of like how we are now, just t-shirt, shorts, whatever. We walk into uh I probably can't say their name, but we walk in there. Edwin wants.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

I was trying not to say, yeah, as well as like doing wrong. We don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Like, and spend pretty pennies there every single time, and then we walk in, and sure enough, nothing. They don't help you, but they're people behind us, collar shirt, pants. Hey hey guys, like people that hate how you're doing, just looked up and looked back down.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Frustrating. And the first time it happened to me, I pulled up in a$200,000 supercar.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

I was in my R8 when I pulled up. Yeah, and they just I was in a tank talk when I walked in. And this this is honest to God the truth. I walk in, they didn't say a word. There are four people behind the counter. Guy walks in behind me, Rolex, the whole night, hey VIP, what's my literally called this guy VIP. And I'm over there looking at the most expensive golf club they have in the building because I'm about to buy, I need a driver. Nothing. Not a word. I walked out, nothing. Not a single word. And then Joan and I walked in and I said, You watch, they're not gonna say anything to us. And we're in there in gym clothes and and um not a not a single word. Nothing. Just horrible. But perception that that's just the way it is. People people you know see that and they think that we're not gonna be in there spending money when when in actuality we both have a very expensive pair of clubs. If we were in there to spend some some serious money, we're actually there buying stuff for um a charity tournament, I believe. Yeah, but anyway, a little off topic, but the way we dress in our business, we do get to dress up a little bit, whereas it is not always fun, but it is nice to put on people clothes every now and then. You know what I mean? Like you look very pretty today. When she walked in, I automatically assume she was doing the podcast with us.

SPEAKER_05 31:32

So somebody called her and let her know.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

It wasn't me, he just told her himself too, right? Not fair.

SPEAKER_05 31:37

To be fair, I've had to collect clothes sometimes. I was still wearing leggings sometimes, but I've never had to wear anything nice ever.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Yeah, well, you do look nice, so I encourage you to keep doing it.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

One question I have is really like when it comes to having to um write somebody up or constructive criticism or you know, just handling something they've done wrong, how do you go from being one of one of them, their friends behind the bar, always, you know, what not having to worry about that, to then you know, talking to them or writing them up. Like that, how has that transition been?

SPEAKER_05 32:17

It's a little nerve-wracking. I'm not gonna lie. I feel like it's nerve-wracking for anybody, you know. I mean, maybe once you do it so many times, it's easy, but definitely nervous. Like my adrenaline starts running right before I have to do it. Um, but I think once I start and just try to have a conversation with them instead of you know, like this is all you're doing wrong, um, kind of like let them speak to, and you know, a lot of times they'll tell you why they did what they did. And um, at the end of the day, it's still a write-up, but I think just having letting them have the Florida talk also um just makes it a lot smoother, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah, that's a big thing. Do you ever feel a little bit hypocritical? Because maybe you're writing them up or getting onto them for something that you used to do as a bartender? That's the way I always felt that that always led me to give second chances or at least be way more understanding because I couldn't literally come down on somebody so hard for something I used to do as a bartender. I try to put myself in their shoes and go, oh, okay, listen, this is your get out of jail free card because I would be a big hypocrite if I severely punished you or fired you for this when it was something that I did as a bartender as well. I just didn't get caught or I just didn't get in trouble for it.

SPEAKER_05 33:29

Um, I would say one, I mean, we're not just like writing people up willy-nilly for every single thing. We hardly write people up. Um, I think one of the main ones that I've had to do several times is being late consistently. And for me, I cannot stand somebody that's late, so that's not hypocritical of me. I can't it makes me cry. Like I'll start biting my nails down the highway if I'm like cutting it to the wire, you know, it stresses me out more than anything. Um, but I'm sure that I've done things that are hypocritical, but I would say for my Friday bartending shift, I think it's changed how I've bartended as well because I think people have higher expectations for me.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

Well, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Is there anything that you've learned when you've come over more into this world that has given you a better understanding of why we do things the way we do? Like, is there anything that's like been like, oh, well that makes sense now? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:20

Yeah, I think a lot, and just like numbers and like the moves y'all have had to make to, you know, because we don't see that side from and it's it can be frustrating for us, and sometimes y'all can't share why you're doing the things that you're doing. But yeah, it's definitely a lot has clicked for me, and um, every move that y'all made is for a reason.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Yeah, I think one thing that like we get a lot from people is like, and if we've had to write them up, I've heard so many times, well, y'all didn't write so-and-so up for this. And I'm like, how do you know? Like, we don't go around and like post on the group page, hey, we wrote up, you know, Jessica today because of this. So it's like, you know, you see kind of more the side of it now that we other people are getting written up for those things, we just don't go tell their story because it's not their business.

SPEAKER_05 35:11

I think they all talk a lot. Um they all talk to each other, which is perfectly fine. We want them to be, you know, friends and the family as well. Um and so yeah, I I would say what would you say? I would say that it's different if it's like you have to look at each situation. It's different for somebody to be late one time because they had their kid, like we all get that. It it when it's consistent is when it's an issue. And that's you know, I I think that by writing them up, it because we haven't written people up for a while. I think it sets the tone of like this is what we're doing now, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

I don't think people take a step back and really think of be what being late does to everybody else. It's not just that you're you're late. What that in turn happens is then, yeah, everybody that like that that shift before you, they then have to start doing your duties. They're late to get home, they're late to get out of there. It's just there's just a trickle effect. There's a lot more to it than you just being five to ten minutes late. It changes everything.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Y'all mentioned a minute ago, you being a mom trying to get home to your kids, that eight 8 15, 8 30 just turned into 9 o'clock because somebody decided they want to be 20 minutes late. And they're already in bed. And I think Juwan can also speak on this a little bit too, is making that transition from bartender to owner. I think he's done a really good job. I think people definitely look up to you and take you way more serious than that serious than they used to, and not that they didn't take you serious, you just took a little while to step into that role, even though you were an owner, you were still just kind of um kind of with the gloves on in a way, not necessarily making excuses for people, but it was still you weren't as upfront as you are now with letting them know your expectations. And whereas I was everybody thought I was the mean guy and ever I was the intimidating guy. Now it's Juwan, I hear everybody's intimidated by him. And you know, the thing is Juwan and I have never yelled at an employee, we've never, I've I've never cussed at an employee, I've never sent them threatening text messages or threatening job threatening their job or anything like that. I've always had you know very um productive conversations with them, uh, but people do understand when I when I speak to them in that manner that I'm serious about what I say, but it's so few and far between I've had to do that. But I used to always tell the staff, and I tell you the same thing, make me the bad guy. I don't care. I'm the owner, make me the bad guy. I don't care. Tell them that I told you to do it, tell them that I told you this. Well, then it turned into a legitimate fear that people had of me, even though we had never even had a conversation, and I may not even know your name, you know, and so there was conver there are meetings where I'd be like, Hey, do you want them on the way to the meeting? Like, uh, why don't you just stay home? Stay home. And he was like, Yeah, this is gonna be a quick meeting, and there's they just it you make them nervous, you intimidate them, just let me run this meeting. And I'm like, Okay, and in one meeting, I I I said, I brought it up and I said, Well, have I ever been mean to anybody in this room? And this is a rabbit hole meeting, so at this point we probably had 20 people in the room, and everybody's like, No, I'm like, have I ever yelled at anybody, cussed anybody, belittled anybody, put anybody down or no? I'm like, why are y'all so scared of me? You know, and no, and it's not they were scared to answer. But it but it is that it's that respect that you have to demand from your staff that automatically you never want to leave with fear, but it it it just happens. I mean, like with Juwan, now he's the scary one, and he's the one that the staff doesn't want to upset and make mad. And I think that that also speaks to the respect that and and the regard that they hold them out. You don't want to let anybody down that you look up to or you, you know, that you covet their their opinion about you. You it's like your parents, you don't want to let them down, and when you do, it's kind of a oh, it's kind of more of a gut check for yourself. Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 39:14

Yep. I was intimidated by you, but um I just but I think it's automatic, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

I like automatically.

SPEAKER_05 39:23

Because you're a owner, I think it's good to have put a little bit of fear.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Like were you intimidated by us?

SPEAKER_05 39:28

No.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Um still under you.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

Well, I think part of it too is Joan and Bailey were still bartending. So that I think that's different. They're interacting with us, you know, and like on our shifts and stuff, we like to banter. Like that's what makes the shift so it was a little bit more warm where you don't see Chris Short and I mean, I think it was when you started you would y'all didn't have an office yet, so y'all were hanging out at rabbit hole every day, and uh it was typically during my happy hour shift. So I got to know you a little better. So, but when anybody thinks the owners are walking in, that there should be some type of fear, you know?

SPEAKER_03 40:03

I don't I don't think there should be fears, I think it's more like a respect thing. Yeah, like because my thing is I want you to come in, work, still have fun. Like some my thing is if you're not having fun at work, then why are you working there? It sounds very bad because when you're not having fun, you're not happy. Like, I that's just that's just a weird way of me thinking. But like for me when it comes to like the transition is that is I tell a lot of staff members is like, hey, I want you to be better than me from from what I did. So I want you, I'll I'll give you a warning or two, but then after when I get onto you, I don't I don't want you being like, oh, why are you getting onto me? Well, why are you doing the exact same thing I told you not to do? It's only a problem when I get onto you, but it wasn't a problem when you were doing it, right? But at the same time, you knew the good way of doing things. The I'm sorry. You k you know you know which way you knew what to do before I even came to you about it, and you knew the one the best ones were a couple of like, I know why you're here. I was like, why am I here then? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Well, and I think just uh, you know, we can wrap it up a little bit after this, but I think that what you guys just mentioned and what you said, um, it is a natural deal that you have. It's probably when you were in corporate and you knew the guys were coming down to check everything you were doing, and same thing when John Hinkle would walk in, I would be like, ugh, but here's the difference is what you just said is no, I wasn't scared of you because or intimidated by you because you and Bailey still bartended. Same thing with Brian and Todd. For me, I didn't really have that respect that I had. I'm not gonna say respect, I didn't have that natural little fear of ownership like I did with John because John was the owner, and when he came in, it was like, oh, whereas I'm bartending, I'm cutting up with these other guys. But what I want y'all to see in there is the lack of respect that people will give you when you put yourself on the same level of them. And as an owner and as a manager, you have to hold yourself a little bit higher. And being a bartender and being a but being back there cutting up with them, having a shot with them every now and then really, really blurs those lines. But I do understand as an as a new bar owner, it is important that you bartend behind your own bar, get to know your customers, get to know them, because most young bartenders have to bartend to make a living still, because they probably just put everything in there. But if you notice what you guys just said, there is a difference when you're behind the bar with employees versus when you're out of the bar behind the employees. Because right now, what I will tell you is any of the new employees would tell you exactly opposite of what Jessica just told you about you and Bailey. They're intimidated by you, they hold you to respect, same thing for you. And that's exactly what Lexus told me last week is I'm intimidated. It scares me when they come in. Yeah, so I think that that just kind of really puts into perspective the the lines that can get blurred whenever you do interact too much with your staff. There's okay to be it's okay to be compassionate, it's okay to be, you know, forgiving and and on a level with them, but you always have to. Yes, you always have to keep that level of professionalism above you because if there's no hierarchy, it's anarchy. So I'm a poet and didn't know it. We're gonna wrap it up with that one. Till next time, guys. Thanks. Thank you.