Unfiltered-ish
Unfiltered-ish is the midlife group chat you wish you were in. Each week, Carina Gardner, Nicki Krawczyk, and Natali Edmonds talk honestly about friendship, ambition, marriage, dating, money, aging, success, reinvention, and the strange little things that make you wonder, “Wait, is everyone else thinking this too?” They’re business friends turned real-life besties, bringing humor, honesty, and just enough chaos to the conversations women usually save for private texts.
Unfiltered-ish
Episode 35: The One Where We Ask If We’re Ambitious or Just Panicking
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Is it ambition, work ethic, entrepreneurship… or are we all just being powered by low-grade panic?
In this episode of Unfiltered-ish, Natali, Carina, and Nicki talk about the highs and lows of building businesses, working way more hours than expected, chasing the next win, and wondering whether “steady” would actually feel good or just feel average. What starts with lizards, library scones, and Claude-assisted time tracking turns into a very honest conversation about workaholism, business burnout, money pressure, W-2 fantasies, entrepreneurship, personal chefs, house managers, and whether any of us would still choose this life if money stress disappeared.
We also talk about the strange addictive pull of business highs, why business lows can force reinvention, whether money acts like a shield, and the fantasy of having a life where work is still creative but no longer running the whole show.
If you’ve ever loved your work, resented your work, dreamed about quitting, immediately started another idea, or wondered why you can’t just choose the calm, steady path, this one is for you.
Unfiltered-ish is the midlife group chat for women talking honestly about friendship, ambition, marriage, dating, money, aging, reinvention, joy, and wanting more out of life.
Hi, I'm Natalie, and five minutes ago I rescued a lizard out of my house. Wow. For three days in a row. Three lizards, three days in a row. I think maybe it was the same lizard trying to get back in.
SPEAKER_01Wait a minute. So the lizard is coming. It's not the cats bringing the lizard in. The lizard like wants to be in your house.
SPEAKER_04At this point, I'm thinking the lizard wants to be in the house. I just rescued it. It's in the front yard now. How big of a lizard? Oh, that's a decent size. I'm gonna say like seven inches.
SPEAKER_02Oh I feel like your secondary job is saving animals, Natalie, in your house. I agree. I agree. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because all right, so lizards, mice, bunnies, bunnies.
SPEAKER_04Yesterday morning I woke up to a dead baby quail in my home. So it's not right there. But this is the introduction, ladies. So what did what did you guys do?
SPEAKER_01That's a good one. Um, I five minutes ago, I was eating a scone and drinking a latte in um the cafe of the public library that I have been working from because they have a cafe in the public library, and you can like eat food within the library, which feels very weird, but but I have done it and it's delightful. It feels like a lot of broken rules. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Hi. Hi, I'm Karina. And five minutes ago, I was building a co-work weekly content intelligence brief.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think Natalie and I went on that one. I think my life is substantially more boring.
SPEAKER_04I don't agree. Our description of what we were doing five minutes ago is a perfect description of our lives most of the time. Don't you agree?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm eating scums. You're chasing animals out of your house, and Karina's interacting with Claude. Although I will say I was realizing today that I think I talk to Claude more than I talk to any other person. Absolutely, 100%.
SPEAKER_02I don't think I do. But I've been doing this time study, you guys, with Claude, for a week now since Saturday. And it's telling me everything I think I knew about myself, but has me concerned about myself. Oh, do you care to share? Well, I think the biggest thing is, okay, so you know they tell you to do these time studies because they say if you like think you're working 40 hours a week, eight hours a day, you're typically really only working like seven, maybe six hours by the time you add in your breaks and all your other stuff. Okay. If that yeah, so I mean, so you're not really working as much as you think. And then, you know, I have people coming and going. I have like, I mean, Felicity just literally walked in the door a second ago and I had to talk to her about what she had going on, all this other stuff. And yet, despite all that, so I was thinking, okay, so I think I'm working, I don't know, 10 hours a day. And I'm probably only really working six and a half by the time, like, you know, I'm racing everyone around and all that. Uh, not the case. Uh, I am working on average nine hours a day, closer to nine and a half hours a day. And that's like with real nine hours, not real nine nine to five. But then you can see all of my lunch breaks, you can see where I pause for five minutes and go run after a kid. Like I've put in literally all, it's like minute by minute, because it's so easy on Claude to like instead of doing 15-minute increments, I'm literally saying, okay, I worked on this and then I stopped right now and I'm gonna go do something that's family related. And then I'll run back and be like, okay, now I'm starting up again. Like, so it's taking real-time notes of everything I'm doing. Also, I worked on Saturday 11 hours. So I'm working nine, nine and a half hours of real work time during the week, and I'm working 11 hours, which actually makes sense to me on Saturday. I I actually thought I was kind of wondering if I did that during the week, but I can't because I have Charlie pick up and drop off from school, and that like cuts in a solid hour or whatever. And then on Sunday, I worked three and a half, and two of those I was with you guys. So I do think Sunday at a little less, which is really good. I it has we just I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I don't understand how you can do that. Like I mean, just physically, I don't understand how you can do that because you know, I've been, I think this week and last week I've been hyper focused. Um, again, shout out to the library. The libraries, I don't want to go down too much of a digression, but how are these things free? We have one good thing going for us in the US, it's the flipping library system. Come on. Anyway, um, support your local libraries. Uh, but I you know, and I would go, all right, I got in and got in and and got in at like nine and then checked my email and really kind of got down to work at 9 30. And then maybe at like three or three thirty, I hit a wall and I go, okay, I gotta go. I gotta, I gotta just but that's what that's only six hours. And at that point, I am like yesterday, I think that's effectively what my schedule was yesterday. And I was a toast, absolute toast by the end of the day. I couldn't have I wouldn't have been capable of more work if I had tried. I I truly do not understand how the synapses in your brain fire. And I would like that's I that is the peptide I would like. I forget copper, forget NAD. I want um, I want Karina Gardner injected into my body.
SPEAKER_02It's just like everything I do, and I think there's a variety of things I do. I also want to say this, because Nick, I don't know. Well, you do copywriting for your own business, but like there was a portion of time, like I've been working on a new fabric collection for Riley Blake. So that's work time, but man, that feels like fun time now for me, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I was designing. Um, so I've been doing some design work. Uh I have a lot of meetings that I think the two of you guys do not have. And meetings, while they don't reinvigorate me, they don't create, they don't feel like work to me. Like they don't feel like all my brain firing off all the things. Do you guys feel that way? And then teaching courses. I mean, I've got four courses this semester that I'm that have live components to it. So yeah, and those are late. That's part of the other reason I get to the nine hours because I start so early, but I teach classes like on Thursday from 2 to 5 p.m. And then on Wednesday from until 7 p.m., 6 or 7 p.m. So like they're later in the day because I have like a break in there where I go get Charlie and then I come back to work.
SPEAKER_01I want to nap just thinking about it. What do you think, Natalie? Yeah, I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, we don't mind it. Knock it off.
SPEAKER_02You're making us look bad. No, I'm not. I'm making myself look like a workaholic. And that's all Josh needs to hear to be like, see, I told you.
SPEAKER_01We'll we'll cut this out of here. Josh never needs to know. I just like work. I like work too. I like what I certainly like what I do for a living. It's just I I can only do so much of it, you know.
SPEAKER_04I think it's easier to work too when you're like having wins.
SPEAKER_02That's a true statement. That's true. That's really true. I think I worked more, I would say three years ago than I do right now because I feel uh very burdened by what's happening in my companies that I have no control over.
SPEAKER_04And when you're winning, it feels very exciting and it drives more motivation and you want to have more wins, so you keep going. But then when you hit a spot, as most people do, where it's not a winning season, it can feel really hard to stay focused for as long. Like you're working long, hard hours without having the reward you feel like you should be getting.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so this is a good question for the three of us because I think all of us have hit highs and lows in our businesses. Highs where like the money is just flowing in, the cash flow is great. We've also hit lows in our businesses. We're like, why is nothing working, right? I'm curious, would you rather one have lots of highs and lows, knowing that the highs are gonna be real high and the lows are gonna be real low? Or would you rather it just be right in the middle and steady all the time? And you never make as much money as you would ever with like your highs and lows. That's a great question.
SPEAKER_01I think it would probably make more sense to be steady because for me, the lows are like, you know, on the ground, face down, going, what am I gonna do? Um, and the highs, the highs are always when you're in the high, it's like, this is great. We're always working so hard to get on to the next thing. Like when I think of how well I did in like 2021 and 2022, it was, it's not like I was, I mean, I was sending out bottles of champagne to my team members, but it's not like it was like, wow, this is I finally hit it. Life is good. You're just chugging along to get to the next thing and to make the most of those, those high highs.
SPEAKER_02Natalie, what about you?
SPEAKER_04Hmm, okay. My initial gut response was like, Oh, I think I'll just be steady, you know, just whatever, live my great life, be steady. But I don't think so. I think I want the highs and lows because I think something about the lows makes me reinvent myself, makes me think of something newer that maybe I wouldn't have thought about. So I think I'm going to keep it highs and lows, so long as in the end it stays in the positive, you know, and the highs keep coming. But I think there's something about going through the lows that makes you think outside of what you've always done. And I like that piece.
SPEAKER_01That's a good point. I think the thing about the lows, though, is that you don't, when you're in the in retrospect, you're like, oh yeah, well, Kelly, I had that low period and then the high period came after it. But I think that when you're in the low, which I think actually a lot of digital businesses are in right now, um, you don't, there's no guarantee that a high is coming, right? It's like, oh, what if it's just low forever?
SPEAKER_04No, I I think I have a belief ingrained in me that like I'm going to figure it out. And maybe it's a total pivot, maybe it's something I can't imagine right now, but like I'm coming out of a low. When you're in the low, you don't stop. You just you go until you get out of the low. Like I feel that very deep. Um so I mean, what you're saying is a possibility, but in my delusional mind, I think it's not a possibility for me.
SPEAKER_02I think it's really hard as entrepreneurs also not to chase the high. It's almost like our addictive quality. I it's so funny because you know, I've just gone through some big highs and lows, and I'm not gonna lie, I love chasing that high. I also think once you've hit some highs, it's very hard to not believe that you can't always get that again. Like, right? Like, I'm like, listen, it takes two seconds for me to, or I think I guess well, Nikki said I said one second uh in our Marco Polo group. And I was like, it does feel that way. It's like, you know what? I could turn everything around like tomorrow. Just give me a second and I will figure it out, right?
SPEAKER_04I feel like if I want steady, like go get a W-2 and then live a balanced life and have the weekends back and have your evenings back.
SPEAKER_02That's true. Although I'm gonna say this I think I built the university to go to that steady route because it's not going to have real highs and real lows, maybe, but it's actually more sustainable as a steady business, which is really interesting.
SPEAKER_04But don't you feel like the ceiling is so much higher than if you were to go get a W-2? Oh, like W-2, you can pretty much say, like, here's my ceiling for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_02Here's the problem. I'm currently what I would consider a low, but my salary is still so much higher than Josh's. So it does, it doesn't even make sense. Like every time I think, Karina, go get a study job, just go be creative director somewhere, go be CEO of another company. Like you could probably kill it. You could probably kill someone's operations, you could just like whatever. It doesn't come close to what I make in a bad year. Yeah. It does not come close to what I make in a bad year. And so once I really looked at that, I was like, it makes no sense to do anything but what I'm currently doing. Because let's face it, we're we're calling it highs and lows, but like none of us are putting numbers to that. But to the general person, our highs and lows look real different than everybody else's.
SPEAKER_04I also think if you ask this question, depending on where we are in our season of business, like the answer might really change. Like there have definitely been some horrible, horrible moments that like I've probably blocked out of my memory that it's like, why the F do I even do this? Do you know how easy my life could be? I could just go to the hospital, make some six figures, see some patients, leave it all there, go home. Like sometimes the crap that we have to deal with is something we would never have to deal with if we worked for somebody else. Um, but I think there's something sick inside of us that makes us still want it, you know?
SPEAKER_02It's just the possibility is so there. Go Nick.
SPEAKER_01I was just gonna say, I don't think I I cannot even stomach the idea of the like I love the idea of like a regular paycheck. And actually, even going into an office would be super fun. Look at me going to the library every day. I love everything. Um, but all the stuff that I'm qualified to do, I would absolutely not want to do for anyone else. Like I certainly I don't want to be on staff writing copy for just one client again. And I suppose even on staff writing copy for an agency because there's so much other stuff that I do that I would miss doing. But at the same time, I don't want to be on staff running somebody else's marketing campaign. I don't want to be on staff the all the stuff that I'm qualified to do, I I love doing for myself and I absolutely would not want to do for anyone else. So it almost feels like I don't really have an option. I have to, I have to make my businesses work because it's either this or like I don't know, jump off a bridge.
SPEAKER_02I feel the opposite, and I only feel the opposite because of what I do for a living. I would love one of my friends just recently became the a creative director, an art senior art director over like the Dr. Seuss uh area at Penguin Books. And I was like, dude, that is a sweet gig. And she is well deserving of it. She owned her own businesses, had her own fabric lines, uh, became an art director at Lego, and then moved on to this. And I was like, that is brilliant. And part of me was a little like envious because I was like, man, that sounds like so much fun. And the reason it sounds fun to me is because I do love creative direction. Basically, like being able to create new projects, create new books, all of that sounds really fun to me. So I don't think I would mind taking that leap back into corporate, but I think I'm too overqualified for it. And I can't imagine anyone being able to pay me a salary that matches anything what I make now. That's the problem. I don't think anyone could give me that kind of salary that would even justify me doing such a thing. Because if you got me, you're getting me 60 hours a week. Like, because I'm gonna be all in in it. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04I think for me, the part like sometimes I fantasize like, oh, I'll just go back to a W-2 and not have to use my brain so hard, you know? But then I imagine the stupid meetings, the required mandatory trainings on what classifies as sexual harassment, the check boxes you have to do that don't most of the stuff you do. Like it just like, ah, the the check boxes of like, okay, we have to do this because this is what this panel requires or administration requires, even though it's not gonna help the person in front. It's like it's it stops my creativity, I feel like, and by doing all of these silly red, not red tape, but I guess like corporate legal uh policy, that kind of stuff drives me crazy. Just let me do my work. If I could just see patients all day, I think maybe I would do it. But you want to stop me to have a stupid staff meeting where somebody likes to hear themselves talk and they want to go on and on and ask the same questions, or somebody's whining about something, or you want to tell me I have to show up at 11 a.m. on a Friday when somebody invited me to pickleball, get out. I need to have control over my schedule.
SPEAKER_02I love that pickleball made it into that. Of course it did. This is Natalie. But you know what I was laughing about as I was as you were talking, Natalie? I was like, you think it's painful to be on that side of it? How about now, as a university president, I'm on the opposite side where I have to instigate those meetings. Oh, it's horrible. It's horrible. Like you're like, oh, I have to follow these policies. And now everybody on my staff has to follow these policies, which means I have to make these stupid meetings that I do not want to run.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It like kills me inside a little bit. Like, what a waste of time. Look at all these people in this meeting sitting here, not even paying attention, just checking off the box and like, oh, horrible.
SPEAKER_01I remember the last, like, I remember before leaving corporate completely to focus on the business. Um, and actually it was even years before the business was successful. But I remember like the last week of meetings like crawling out of my skin, you know, when you're like, I gotta get to get out of this room. And I just like you're like I oh, just the worst. They're like, what the fuck are we doing here? Can we just why are we still talking about this? Can we just go? Right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And the million emails that come in from all the different memos and what, like, who who cares? Like, this has nothing to do with what I need to know. Like, stop. I don't know, it's just a lot. So I don't, I could I fantasize every now and then about going back to a very easy kind of gig. Uh, but then I think about what it would actually entail, and I think, no way, no way.
SPEAKER_03Just as you were talking, you know what this reminded me of? When we first met Neki, she used to talk about being a bread girl. I feel like we should talk about that. That's what that reminds me of.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I used to live around the corner from this um this bread shop. And whenever I'd go in there, there'd be some like little girl sitting there working, and like all I'd be like, I want that loaf and that loaf. And she'd she'd say, Do you want it sliced? And I'd say, No. And she'd be like, okay. And then she'd run up, put it in a bag, and then she was up, and I was like, That's not my little job. All you do all day is like, you just sit there and it's really cute, it's adorable, and you probably get free bread. And then all you have to do is ask people, Do you want it sliced? Or do you want it or do you want it just sweetness? And would you like some butter? I'm sorry, or some jam. Uh yeah, I think that sounds amazing. Unfortunately, you can't actually make a living in that way and probably never could, but uh yeah, those that would be the fan on the days when it's it's too rough, it's like, yeah, I just want to go work at a bread shop and ask people if they want it sliced. No? Okay, great. Here's your bag of bread. Have a nice day.
SPEAKER_04I wonder if like being in a business is kind of like childbirth, which I don't know about, but it's like so awful and painful in the pregnancy and the pains and all that. And then it happens, you're like, I want another one. I wonder if business is like that sometime. Like there's so much awful things that happen, and then it's like you kind of like forget and you're like, I'm ready to launch again.
SPEAKER_01Because they're so cute and exciting when they're little, and then but they're still they're still miserable as they get older too. You're still like, Oh, I love this, but I hate you.
SPEAKER_02You do forget. I mean, back to the childbirth analogy, it is in business. You do forget like how long it took you to get to this place and to do this thing. I have to, I feel like I have to constantly remind myself that, hey, Karita, your designers can't do it this fast because they're brand new at it. So it's fine, you know. Do you have to do that, Nikki? Do you have to think rethink to yourself, like, hey, it's gonna take them a second to figure out this thing.
SPEAKER_01No, I I I know it, I know how long it takes. Cause I also, you know, we have our students in the Facebook group and I see them, like there's so much internal stuff to overcome. Like, I don't know, should I send this email? Just send the email, just send the email. I think for me, what I am realizing is I I have forgotten how much time it takes to scale. Like, cause as we've launched our corporate offer and then sent out my first several pitch emails, and I'm like, okay, well, I assume that all 20 of you are gonna get back to me because this is an excellent offer and you should all want this. And it's like, but none of you have gotten back to me. But I sent out 20 cold emails. Okay, all right, all right, I got it. Yeah, I for all right, okay, okay, I got it. But yeah, it's it's like, well, I I did it once before and I went through all that learning. So shouldn't I just be able to transfer like you can transfer the learning, but you can't actually transfer the success over damn it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think that about all businesses. I because I've owned a lot of little different businesses.
SPEAKER_01And it's like, I think we I thought that's hold on a second. To say little, I think you're not giving them their due because they've all been massively successful.
SPEAKER_02Well, to some extent, right? But I was just thinking about my Kareena Gardener Inc., which was my design firm, right? And then we transferred and built Mini Lou, which was our paper crafting paper kid company. And I once I had that same feeling like, well, Kreana Gardener Inc. is so ridiculously successful. Why wouldn't MiniLou, which is now a wholesale company that does Paper physical goods, why wouldn't it be successful? Even though, you know, it had a warehouse and wholesales and we had to do trade shows and we had employees, like W-2s. It was a totally different deal. And yet in your head, you think, oh, I did one business very successfully. This one should just, you know, knock it out of the park. And it was good, but it actually never, even though it actually made more gross revenue than Karina Gardner Inc., it never made more net revenue than Karina Gardner Inc. because it had physical products in it.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. But you got into Nordstrom, didn't you?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yes. Yeah, I just want to tell people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, we were the people to know. I want the people to know.
SPEAKER_02It was not a bad gig. We were in some very awesome places. So it it is a fun little resume thing. Um, and it was a great company, but you know, like greener pastures. I think that's the other problem with entrepreneurs. Like, once you kind of figure out what the margins are and where you're at, you're like, I think I could make more money if we did this, right? Oh man. I keep thinking about all the AI stuff right now. Did I tell you guys that Josh and I were at dinner last week and we're like, it feels like we're not really taking advantage of this. And so we were like, how could we do something crazy? So I'm not saying this is gonna happen, but our idea is once I get past like the mega milestones of the university, he was like, Let's start building video games. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm down with that. Let's do it. That's fun. That sounds like a good pastime for him in the evenings and weekends. Yeah, to write video games. I mean, especially because you can now. That's the thing. You don't have to know Python and JavaScript all the way through. You can, you just need to know enough to be dangerous.
SPEAKER_04It'd be fun to create a game that was uh one, two, three, five-player game that you're you guys played at a as a family and logged in, and you can see like who gets further and who doesn't. Like you don't you can be all on at the same time, but you also don't necessarily have to be.
SPEAKER_02Look at Natalie coming up with a game for me. I knew if I just said something here, ideas, it would generate out of Natalie to help me build this thing. Yeah, she's the idea ideas girl. It's like a uh a game that brings families together instead of tearing them apart.
SPEAKER_04Well, no, I think you guys will still tear each other apart through the game based on like who is winning and who is not, like for sure.
SPEAKER_02There'll be massive amounts of trash talk.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um, can house guests pop in periodically? Like when Auntie Nikki and Auntie Natalie come? Can we just enter the game? Yes.
SPEAKER_03This is a seven-person game. My favorite is ever since you've called yourself that, Felicity literally calls you Auntie Nikki and Auntie Natalie.
SPEAKER_02She hasn't even met Natalie in real life, but she's still she's like, wait, is Auntie Nikki and I are we still moving to France when and got a whole plan to make money?
SPEAKER_01And I'm like, oh, okay. Okay, she's there on her mission. We really know that she's basically spending 18 months scoping it out for us to live there together. The thing is, though, is you know I'm gonna take good cur good care of our girl. And she's gonna take good care of me too.
SPEAKER_02I'm glad you guys got each other. Okay, I don't even know what we came onto this podcast to talk about.
SPEAKER_04Because we just the highs and lows of business. Do we want it to be steady or do we want the highs and lows? I guess I don't know. And without the um, I don't know. I guess without the amazing, we don't really realize how bad it can suck. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02It would be, but I also would like to experience that a little bit.
SPEAKER_04Maybe not just seasons of that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Steady that's like a little bit high. Can I have that?
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah. I think I've told you guys this before, but like my if you had to say, like, what's your fear in life? It's like being average. And so when you say study, I know not it doesn't necessarily mean like just average, it could be high steady. I could get I could get behind that. Hi steady, maybe I could get I could get behind that. I just automatically assumed it was like basic in the middle. Um I just want a better life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, constant growth. I I always think to myself that business would be so much fun if money were not involved. Like if it were really like, okay, let's try this out. Oh, and see what happened. Wow, a bunch of people bought that. Like, okay, now let's try this out. Oh, that didn't work. Okay, let's try something different. Like, think of how fun it would just be all be experiments and trying stuff out if there's no money involved.
SPEAKER_04Now, wait a minute. Do you think that's a good exercise? Let's say we're in a low, let's say we're in a really big low of the business. What why wouldn't we try that if there wasn't upfront investment cost? What about this? This would be fun. What about this? This would be fun.
SPEAKER_02Is that worth like a I feel like I'm living that life right now. You guys know that. I just like put out a new offer and then I just did something crazy. Like I sent it all to like some of my old members and was like, hey, you guys want to get in on this? And then it has a deadline date. And I was just like, okay, so the following week or the week after, I can't remember, very close after, I was like, oh, let's just do a special boot camp for this thing and a UAD webinar. So almost every week I have a thing, but I'm like, we'll just try this and then we'll try this and then we'll try this. And I'm kind of in a phase of exploration to see what's going to work. I mean, by the time this comes out, we'll have like also, you guys, we're two weeks away. We're supposed to launch our continuing education at the university. Have I been working on it? No, because I've been working on all these other things, but we will get it together in a week, you know? So we're just gonna do it. I have lots of meetings next week to make it happen. So we're our team, my team is awesome. We're just gonna like we're just gonna get it done. But I I do think in a lot of ways, we're right now playing this game called we don't care how much money we're gonna make. We're just gonna do it because we have to in some ways. Like we have to try a whole bunch of things to see what's gonna stick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I mean that's the thing too, is that that you whether it's fun or not, you have to try a bunch of things. I think it'd be more fun if it could be focused on, but the problem is is when you're not hitting your numbers, you're not hitting your goals where you want to be, it's like I can't not I don't like the word can't. I have trouble not attaching monetary pressures to that as well. I have a really hard time being like, you know, how the the exist in the exist in the the potential, exist in the, you know, it be in the place where you're already making eight figures a year and that kind of thing. Like I I I try to do that. You guys know I do my joy meditations, still doing that every morning. Um, also still uh still keeping up with my um sign language too. But uh it's it's still as the day goes on, and then you know, Friday I run my numbers, and if they're not what I want them to be, then it's like oh, and then a Friday is down. It's yeah, I I miss the I missed.
SPEAKER_02It's a little bit like a video game. Like I was just thinking, like, it would be nice if you didn't have to worry about money. That means you always had a shield, like everyone can shoot guns at you, but you never get hit. But like if you're shooting at all the bad guys, like you can hit them as much as you want. Like, but that's what money is. Money is a shield. Yeah, money's the shield. So here's the thing though. Okay, it sounds like a nice idea at first, but after playing that video game for a couple of rounds, you you'd get bored real fast. If you know no one can kill you, then what's the fun in it?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I guess that's why you get to why people who are really successful and sell their businesses then start a new business for something else to do. But don't forget they've always got to, they might set their shield down for a moment, but that shield can come right back up anytime. And I think that is the option I would like to have, you know, the okay, I'm gonna take a risk, but it's not too big of a risk because if I need to, I can always pull that shield back up, you know. But isn't that why?
SPEAKER_02And I I would wish I knew the stats on this. I've heard that secondary businesses don't make it that they like once you've hit it really, really big, the second business, because often it's a passion project, or they think, oh, I was successful once, so this one should be no big deal. And so they go in with a lot of huge.
SPEAKER_01Almost like, yeah, like it's it doesn't go as well. I mean, that makes sense. I believe that like not 10 or 15 minutes ago, we were all saying, Well, that's not a business and I was like, why isn't it easy? Yeah, so we're just as dumb as we're just as dumb as the rich people are. Okay, all right. So we have a lot in common with the super, super riches.
SPEAKER_02Good job to us. That's so funny. Okay, so here's my question for you guys in your dream world, dream life, would you still be an entrepreneur? Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes, but I would be working fewer hours. I was still want to work because I still like it. Like I like, I like the strategizing, I love the creativity, but I want to be doing it and I this is what I want to get to eventually. Like the four, five hours, and then maybe an hour or two of writing, and then time with friends, significant other family hobbies.
SPEAKER_02Listen, we could fix that some of that if you just lived close by one of us, because this morning when you got on and said, Oh, I just wish we were going out, I was like, Me too. Why don't you live in Utah, Nikki? So we could just go to brunch this morning. I'd skip out on my morning meetings, and then we go to brunch and we come back and be excited to work. I agree. Yeah, I agree. Basically, you just need to move between Natalie and me. That's what I'm seeing.
SPEAKER_01I'm just like drive back and forth, just have uh have the barn up with you and have uh although I actually interestingly, I was just out of curiosity because I perpetually am trying to decide where I want to live next. I was looking at rentals near you, Natalie, just because we were, you know. Um, and the rental prices are really reasonable for like a one bedroom. Yeah, really reason, like a half almost down to a third of the price of what they're like Melody sends me rental listings for a place up near where I used to live near her. And it's like, okay, well, three grand for a one-bedroom den per month, or like 3200 or something, like you can't justify renting for that price. Like that, my mortgage was 3600 and then for uh for a townhouse, not even a full house house, and that was at a good uh percentage rate. Um, I just like to pay that much for a rental. So the I swear to God, in in near you, it was like 1400 bucks for a for a one bedroom.
SPEAKER_02Like again, at that price, maybe I'll rent a house down there.
SPEAKER_01So when when are you coming?
SPEAKER_02Excuse me.
SPEAKER_01All my dreams come true.
SPEAKER_02I'm also wanting wondering when you're coming, because the nice thing about you being on this side of the country, not that I don't, sorry, Melody. Melody, stay on my advisory council just because I'm saying these things. Anyway, um, you're on this side of the country. It's so easy for me to pop down there and vice versa, because like Natalie coming up, it's just like so easy when you're on this side because it's like, oh, it's an hour or 45 minutes or whatever away, you know? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, even the drive wasn't bad. How long was the drive? How long did I actually have 10? I feel like it was 10. Was it 10? No, it wasn't 10. It must have been really nine? No, it was shorter. Maybe seven.
SPEAKER_04There's no way with the time difference or something, you gained an hour or yeah, because it's six hours from Salt Lake to Vegas.
SPEAKER_02And I thought it was like four hours from Phoenix to Vegas. You know what?
SPEAKER_04We have these awesome things called maps.
SPEAKER_02Maps, what is this map thing of what you don't get crazy? So even in our dream lives, we'd all be entrepreneurs, but I am in agreement with Nikki, less. Way less time.
SPEAKER_04So but my I'm not working all that much, so I feel like I'm okay. 10 hours, about 10 hours.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow, really? I told you, I thought it was 10 hours because I I thought, man, it would be great for Natalie or me, like Natalie could drive up with Nico, you know, so that she could stay if she wanted to. Um, and if think if it was six hours, that would happen even more, right? Yeah, it would just be super easy. Um, I was thinking about how um my ideal amount of work time is actually six hours. I love the idea of working from eight to two. So, like I really have my great work time between eight and noon. And then from noon to two, it's kind of like any of the extra little things, maybe some design work, maybe some meetings, I get that done. I something about two in the afternoon, I already have a lull. Like it's already a little difficult during that time. Yeah. And so being able to just get out of there and maybe do something active. Maybe that's exercise time, maybe that's housework time, maybe that's I don't know what that is. But it's it's uh, it's I don't know. And maybe I'm also um drawing on that because my kids used to get out of school around 2:30 or 3. And so that's when I would have a natural like go into the house or go pick up kids and um have a snack with them, get them on their homework, and then I wouldn't come back to work again until like 7 p.m. at night. And actually, maybe that was an ad ideal lifestyle back then, you know, and maybe in the future. I just have more work now. I don't know how that happened. Just kidding.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna start a university, she says. How hard can it be?
SPEAKER_02She says okay, so we'd all still be um entrepreneurs. We'd all well, not Nikki, Natalie, you'd work the same amount. Okay. Nick, you would want four or five hours. I'd like five or six hours. What else would we want in this dream life?
SPEAKER_04I'd want a man with so much money that it didn't matter if my business hit its numbers or not, because he's just like, okay, go have fun with your little hobby, you know, even though I'm like trying to change lives, and he's just like, I don't even know what the bills are. I mean, I was in that position before, but you know, not now.
SPEAKER_01Not with the right man. Right. Exactly. How about you eat it? A two, I I I mean, you guys know I don't want to be reliant on a man, but I do like the idea of like the partnership of like a two-income household seems so amazing. Like, wait a minute, we're gonna split these bills. What? Because you know what? A $3,600 mortgage is so much easier when you're paying half of a $3,600 mortgage. Like, oh, that does sound amazing. Or like, oh, things are gonna be slow this month. And then he can be like, oh no, don't worry about it. We're we're let me look the no, we're totally fine this month. Don't worry about it. Like, uh, and then certainly I would like there to be on someone like, oh, we're I'm doing really well this month. Let's I'm gonna treat us to whatever. Um, or if his stuff is slow, whatever he does for a little bit.
SPEAKER_04I want to go back to being so clueless, I didn't even know what what was going on.
SPEAKER_03Honestly, like, I don't even know. Like, oh, I thought the lights just come on. Oh, we pay somebody for that? Okay.
SPEAKER_01Wasn't that Mariah Carey, who had the who had an interview, was like, no, we don't pay for water in in the US. Or something like that. It was either water or electricity, but she was like, no, in the US, we don't pay for that. We get it for free.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm not far off on that, you know, like it's adorable. So I like that. I'd like to go back to that because you know, I'm still making money, it's still happening, and like whatever just goes somewhere. It goes into this account, and then things happen. I don't know. I don't want to deal with it. I I probably need to step into a new identity, but I do really love I love that. I loved that part.
SPEAKER_02Natalie and I are the two extremes, which is how it always is.
SPEAKER_01It always is. You guys are the two extremes, and then I'm usually in the middle. Oh, on almost everything.
SPEAKER_04The K-pop demon hunters, and then you and I are in the extremes.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_02I was just thinking, I'm like laughing in my head, that I know what you guys are talking about are just dreams because I am married in a two-income situation, and I'm still the one who's like, all right, where's the utility bill? I better like pay attention to that.
SPEAKER_04So I feel like a lot of women end up with that the bill paying role. I'm never gonna be in that role. Well, right now I am. If I am partnered, I am not gonna be in that role. I mean, I don't know actually, because partnered is not right. And I don't think I'll ever get married again. But if I was married again, I'm not in that role. Basically, I don't like it. I don't like it at all.
SPEAKER_01Maybe you need to make a shit ton of money and then technical term, shit ton of money, um, and then have like a household manager, like or or a that's what I need, you know, that kind of like it just kind of they manage these things for you and they manage the household finances and then not the big finances because you have a major financial guy for that, or woman for that. But then you have like a household manager who manages the like they pay the pool guy, they get the and they order the groceries when they notice that you're getting low on stuff. And yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Wait, we should talk about this because my other mastermind group, um, someone in that group just ordered a personal chef now. And then another one also has a personal chef, and they're talking about they are looking for a house manager right now. And we, I never got quite as far as personal chef, but we I had a personal assistant who came into my home who literally did crazy crap for me. Like she literally reorganized my entire garage, like, which is like what? It's like crazy stuff. I feel so grateful. And she went out and did all my grocery shopping and filled my fridge with stuff. It was really good. Um, but I wouldn't do a personal assistant again, but I would do a manager again, like a house manager, because uh we have a mutual friend, the three of us that was in a mastermind who did do that. And I thought it was so cool because they would do crazy things like not crazy things, but things that take up time on your schedule, like go get the car's oils changed and always fill them up with gas. And like that kind of stuff, it does take up a lot of time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I guess not just the time, but like the mental energy to remember that stuff.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Car registration. Weird thing. Like, I don't like people in my home. Me neither. That's actually why I am uncomfortable. And I don't know if I could get comfortable with it, but like even when I used to have the cleaning, um, housekeeping, or yeah, it's like I feel like I am displaced in my home. I feel like I can't go get a drink when I want to because am I being rude? Then I offer her a drink, or like if I'm hungry, then I make food for her. It's like I still am like, I can't be comfortable if there's like a worker in my home.
SPEAKER_02I have a solution for you.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_02Build a barn. So my my cleaners do come to my house every other week and I don't see them. They don't clean my barn. I clean my barn every Saturday. And so I don't ever see them anymore. So, but I used to feel displaced, or I'd be like, you can't clean my office because I'm in my office working. So that's the way I deal with it. But I will tell you that is part of the reason I didn't I ended up getting rid of the personal assistant is because I couldn't have her in my space all the time. It just didn't work out. So I would almost rather hire like the house manager person and to like give them a Monday.com board list of here are all the things you have to do, but like you don't have to be in the house. You might be coming and going, you just have access to the house.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I feel like the only time I'd be really comfortable and I wouldn't mind it if it was like my sister, like a very close relationship where it felt so comfortable for that person to be around, then I'm okay. But like as an acquaintance or an actual somebody I don't know well, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01It could be though that someone like morphs into that role, you know, or not morphs in, but like morphs into that level of comfort. Cause like, so Melody's, you know, it's so funny to call her a nanny because she's she's more like a close friend because we've known her for so long. She worked at the childcare that um Riley and Ella went to when they were itty bitty babies. Um and then that child care, like the then the place kind of changed. And so so Lonnie and but um so Lonnie and and her girlfriend Abby are they worked there together, and so we've known them for like 10 years now. They feel like family, but you know, they're also then they're there for the girls and they're there, and but also then she helps with laundry and she makes sure that the pantry is stocked and she's organized the pantry and and like she will do mail stuff and she uh um A I L to be clear. Uh and um I think it's just kind of the the the longer that Melody's known her, the more that she has gotten comfortable, the more that everyone's gotten comfortable, and the more that it's just like understood that that's what the relationship is. She's there to to support and she feels like family.
SPEAKER_04So it's like she's contributing to the family, you know, obviously getting paid for it, but no, no, no, just people Melody technically be like sitting on the couch watching a TV show and Lonnie would be doing some work, like organizing the pantry.
SPEAKER_01Possibly, but you know, she doesn't really have that much time to be sitting on the sofa, you know. It's if if she's sitting on the sofa, she's sitting on the sofa like in the evening, maybe after the girls have gone to bed, you know, because she still has because don't forget too, she's got two little girls, she's got a full full-time job.
SPEAKER_04She's so like I'm thinking if I just wanted to take a break and sit down, like I would feel so guilty if somebody was in my house working.
SPEAKER_01Well, but also Lonnie isn't there all the time, you know, because she like cranes, she's out and about, and then she's also she's not full-time for Melody. Um, I forget how many hours she has, maybe 20, maybe 25.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, I just think if you want to take as many breaks, if you're so cognizant of like someone else at your home, you just need your office to be outside of your house.
SPEAKER_04Because that's really home.
SPEAKER_02Well, you do because remember, you need um like what a pickleball court inside and a pickleball court outside. I do.
SPEAKER_04I need two pickleball courts, one indoor, one outdoor.
SPEAKER_02And now I'm just adding to it a casita for you to work in so that someone can come clean your house.
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna work on that, you know, and maybe the next podcast or an upcoming one, we could talk about like the drive to grind, the drive to keep going. Like what keeps you keep going, you know?
SPEAKER_01Utter panic.
SPEAKER_02And let's end there.