Business Themes & More
A fortnightly podcast exploring the nuances of starting and running a business. Featuring interviews with business owners, as well as tips and tricks
Business Themes & More
Episode 2 - All About HR - From an Expert
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In this episode Gerry sits down with Paulette Kokarz, Managing Director of Bespoke HR, a consultancy based in Adelaide.
Paulette has a wealth of information based on her experience in creating a company that offers support and advice to businesses.
She covers so many issues including workplace cultures, knowledge of employee relations, awards, and so much more. Paulette also talks about the changes in HR in the current workplace and the changes.
You can find our more about Bespoke HR here:
Welcome and thank you for joining us on business themes and more. My name is Jerry. And my name is Tina. And we'll be delving into business topics which hopefully you find to be helpful and of interest. I've had many years' experience of owning and running various companies and look forward to sharing my experiences with you.
SPEAKER_00And I'm just starting out in a business and have lots of questions about what's involved owning and running a business.
SPEAKER_03The more part of our podcast will be talking with people who have started their own businesses and will share with us their experiences and their stories.
SPEAKER_00So stay with us as we explore the nuances of business. However, here we are at season two. The first couple of episodes are going to be a slightly different format. Jerry has been pounding the pavements, interviewing some terrific guests, and I'm just going to introduce those episodes and hope that you enjoy them. So the first episode is an interview with Jaren von Kempen, and she is the owner of Prime Traffic, a respected South Australian business known for its reliability and leadership. The interview will look to explore with Sharon the experiences, values, and decisions that have shaped both her approach to business and the culture behind her company. Now, Sharon has an absolute wealth of experience, and I hope you will enjoy the interview.
SPEAKER_03Okay, well, Sharon, good morning.
SPEAKER_01Good morning, Jerry.
SPEAKER_03How are you?
SPEAKER_01I'm well, thank you.
SPEAKER_03Beautiful day there. Beautiful day. It is Okay, well, look, you've obviously been in prime traffic for two decades. What originally motivated you to start the company?
SPEAKER_01It was actually my husband who um was approached by a friend who had a similar or as a traffic management business and he was looking to expand into South Australia. So he approached Dean and they decided to go into a partnership. At the time I was in between having our children. So I had been on maternity leave, wasn't working for the first 12 months when we were in this. Then so we went into partnership for a couple of years under a different name. Then our partner wanted to sell, and we weren't ready to do that. We'd invested a fair business bit into the business that was going really well. So we ended up buying him out and rebranding. My husband at the time was a plumber by trade, um, had a builder's license, he was subbing, and he decided he might like to get off the tools for a while. Uh so yeah, we just thought, well, this is a new industry, new opportunity. Uh we'll just see how it goes. And the rest is right, okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So do you regret doing that at all? No.
SPEAKER_01No. Some days yes. But no, no, it's been um you don't when you're working in the business, you don't back and really look outwards at what you've achieved. And then when you do, you go, oh wow. Like there's been so many changes in the industry from when we started, building a really good team around us to to help get us to where we are today. Um, people are the most important thing. Finding those right people, finding the right market, dealing with the competition. When we first started, there was about three or four players in the industry here in South Australia. Now I've lost count of how many traffic control companies there are. So, no, no regrets. Okay. No regrets.
SPEAKER_03That's interesting. I I I asked that um because um how has your role as uh the owner changed over the years and and what do you find the most rewarding about that and probably uh in running the business now?
SPEAKER_01When I first started, it was very small. It was a part-time non-paid role working from home with the kids. And then as they as we grew and the kids grew, I become and we got bigger, it became more of a full-time role, which I would juggle um around kids and childcare and school and and that sort of thing. So in originally I was just admin payroll. So juggling the kids and growth and the business growth, we ended up getting more staff. I was administration payroll, then I was overseeing administration and payroll. Then I after a few years, uh my husband was stepped away from the business and uh I became the general manager. Um, and then we did a restructure um a few years ago when it was evident that he was he's gone back on the tools basically in the civil space, excavated driving. He um wasn't gonna come back into the business. We had uh food cover of what he was doing.
SPEAKER_03That's interesting. I'll I'd I'll sort of pick you up there big uh just on that point. So really at the time you could have you had a you actually came to a crossroads there. You had to really make a decision whether you go ahead or or do you say to yourself, well, what made you actually step on that and keep going?
SPEAKER_01I think it's a good business. I love the challenge. I love the people that we've got working for us or with us. And it was, well, okay, you go off and do what you're gonna do. That that's no worries, but I'm gonna stay here and and give this a crack and see how we go.
SPEAKER_03Oh, well that that's uh a real feather in your cap there. The the other thing is prime traffic, I mean, it's a it's in a fast-moving industry. What major industry shifts have surprised you the most in the past 20 years?
SPEAKER_01The growth in competitors, people coming in for SA from Interstate was a bit of a surprise for a start, you know, little old SA. It's um everyone knows everyone and it's a pretty close-knit community, really. So having so many competitors come in was a challenge. I think probably the biggest change is the Department for Transport taking on the new Osroads framework for temporary traffic management, which has just recently changed the training of our staff. So originally, once upon a time, you could do a one-day course to get a work zone traffic management ticket, and you could get a job in the industry. Then it went to two days, and now it's four days, 20 hours of work experience, and then you've got to find a job. So it slowed down the rate of recruitment. What was a very transient industry is now difficult, not difficult to get into, but it's it's more of a challenge.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I and that's interesting because there's the the things are evolving all the time and evolving, and that you've got to be really on top of that. One of the things that caught my ear then is that there's a lot of companies, a lot of competition. So, with so many companies, what do you think your point of difference is compared to your competitors?
SPEAKER_01So I think having been around for so long, we're a trusted organization. We pride ourselves in offering a very personalized service so that we we form relationships with our clients, we go to them and find that happy medium between getting them out on the road and sticking to compliance and safety, which is a big part of what traffic is all about. Um, but it really I'm gonna put it down to it, it's valuing those relationships that we we do have. We have clients that have been with us since the start.
SPEAKER_03Right. Okay. So you've built up that that client base, which I call A-grade clients. Correct. That that really would pick up the phone and talk to you first.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. That's and is it in a a tender situation that you you find yourself in, or is it uh just a client ringing up saying, We'd like you to do this job?
SPEAKER_01Sometimes when when our clients are um tendering, they will come to us for the information they need to put in the tender for the traffic management side of the of the job. Often though, our clients just call us up.
SPEAKER_03Right, okay. That in itself, I mean, if um if people are actually ringing you and uh you're providing that service, obviously um I think loyalty is a big thing in in any industry, and that comes with many years of relationships, etc. I think. But yeah, no, I always go back to the A, B, and C of clients where you've got your A grades and then you've got your Bs and your C's, and it's getting the Bs into the A's, if you see what I mean.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, correct. I think one of the biggest challenges is when you have those A clients and then they go quiet, so they haven't got much work on, then we don't have much work on. So it's about finding that balance to keep your staff, um, because it's a casual workforce to keep your staff while that you're in a lull with a particular client. Um, so it's it's about balancing that mix of clients. Right. So that you don't run out of work.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, gotcha. Because I mean in any business, you've got a cash flow, you've got um wages, you've got all sorts of equipment to buy and keep up to date. So that that's very important. Yeah, that brings me on to um technology now. Now to technology and data are huge in transport, right? Um, so how does prime traffic integrate new tech and what's been a game changer?
SPEAKER_01Biggest biggest changes today have been how we communicate with our staff on the ground and get out their shift to them. Once upon a time, we had a big whiteboard in the office, and you would have the whole day there, and you'd have the jobs that had been booked in, and everything was paper-based, and you would make a phone call to book staff in and give them all the information. They'd all come to the yard, get their paperwork for the job, you know, pick up their vehicle, all that sort of stuff. Now it's all done via apps, electronic rostering system, all their paperwork is attached to the job, they can access everything on their phone or a tablet, and then the integration of that rostering system into our MyObs. We use Myob for the accounting side. So integrating that into Myob, it's gone or the paper timesheets that the guys had to fill in and drop in every Monday, and that's been a big change on that side of it. On the ground, we've seen the introduction of what we call portable traffic control devices, which are you know, you pop up some stoplights either end of a stop slow, so you you're controlling the traffic with a a remote to the traffic lights for a stop-slow scenario instead of having to stand there with a stop-slow bat, which gets the um staff off the road, so to speak, which is a big, big thing in in the traffic industry, and also portable boom gates that work the same way. Um, and you will have seen out in the yard here the um traffic mounted attenuators, the big trucks that the high speed roads sit at the end or at the beginning of a work site to protect staff from runaway cars and and um trucks and stuff. So they're they're the biggest changes on both sides, I guess, um, from when we first started. Everything was very manual, manual paperwork. A lot of that is now working. Yeah, so are you using AI at all? We are researching AI at the moment with a company out of Queensland, right? Getting some things together to reduce the amount of time spent on planning a job. Um, that's a big change in the industry, too. It's gone to the days where you can just put traffic controllers out on the road on a work site. Um, there's a lot more planning and timing involved now. The Department for Transport here in South Australia, um, you know, they've they've you've got to have a permit to get on one of their roads, they've got a time frame from the day the permit goes in to when you can get on the road, like might be three days. So, yeah, there's a lot more planning around actually getting a job up and running before they get out on the road.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because I suppose that's it, it it's a ripple effect in a way, because you get uh more time to because you've got all your um correspondence, etc. etc. You have to do, but if that can be dealt with in a much more efficient way, then that frees up people to do other parts as well, as well as the planning, of course.
SPEAKER_01Correct, yeah, yeah. It's actually forced our clients, it's taking a while, but forced them to be more organized. So once upon a time, we we would feel and it's true, traffic was always the last thing they would think of when planning a job. So they would come to us today and want to get on on the road tomorrow. Right. Because they've gone, oh, who booked traffic? So having them more organized with booking us in and what they need from us has been a challenge. Um, you know, we used to always pride ourselves on making things happen. Things was not the word that used to be written on the board. Um, and we would always manage it, but the department and the changes within the industry have forced everyone to be more organized, booking traffic in.
SPEAKER_03Oh, right, okay. Well, that that brings me now to every business that you ever talk to or or have anything to do with depends on leadership in a lot of ways and how you actually run your company. I've got two questions here. I suppose that they they overlap each other, but as the owner and leader of this business, how do you build and maintain a company culture, for example, especially through growth as changes take place? Uh I'll come to that after this one. You I'd like you to answer that first, if you could.
SPEAKER_01I learned you learn a lot in the journey, obviously. I think staying true to who you are and the type of person you are, and your morals, values. It's a funny thing to say. It it's not an easy thing, but if you stick to who you really are and what you really believe in and what your right is, you know, being a good person, being a good communicator, valuing relationship, I think is it we live and breathe it. You know, every day you come to work and you are who you are, and you stick to that, regardless of what happens, you know, we've been through some really terrible situations and been treated, you know, pretty poorly. You ride the wave of the emotion behind that, but don't let that change who you really are. So for me, it's not easy, but it's just being being you, being who you are.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So just going a step back there, what what's one thing that you remember that was a real down side and and you coming out of that? I mean, there's the business in general.
SPEAKER_01For myself personally, I f have found over the years clients come and go, and you deal with sometimes people who don't sit in your value chain. Well, not your value chain chain, but they're different, and you deal with that. For me, our employees are, you know, obviously the backbone of the of the company, and we feel that we you know treat everyone fairly, um, stick to the values. I remember a particular time that one of my office staff and my operational team at the time stabbed me in the back, um, and that really hurt. And I remember leaving the office that day and going home, and I was qu upset that you know, I would never do that to someone. Why would they do that to me? Um, so I think that was a big learning curve for me that people will be who they are, but don't let that change who you are. Don't go back into the office and treat everyone like they've treated you. You think they're gonna treat you that way. So it's about putting your heart on your sleeve, being true to who you are, and then you know, hoping for the best. And yes, you will get hurt, but it's about riding that emotion and going th and you will get through it. So experience has taught me that, you know, you move on. You do move on, and you do end up surrounding yourself with people who have the same values, who think the same way, and who treat you and the rest of your staff the way that they need to be treated. Just some people are just different, built different, and you learn to ride that wave and you learn to pick those people pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, right. I'll get that. And if we sum that up, it's really treat people the way you'd want to be treated.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_03And if you if you want to squeeze it all together for that, I think that really is uh what you've been doing by the sound of it.
SPEAKER_01I try to. I think I try to.
SPEAKER_03I think people sometimes underestimate how how difficult it it is to actually run a business. I think they they it looks great up there when you see someone else, they they've got a nice house, they've worked hard for it. And I I I I honestly believe people walk into oh and start a business, but there's so much emotional attachment to that business.
SPEAKER_01Oh, 100%. Yeah. Um, you know, I've well we've been in it for nearly 20 years. It's a long time. It is a long, it doesn't feel that long, but it is it is a long time. And I look back and my our kids are 22 and 20. They don't know any different. Crime's just always been a part of their life. It is a very long time and it is a hard journey, but it is also rewarding, and you meet a lot of fantastic people, and it's a great industry to be involved in. The civil and construction industry in South Australia, particularly at the moment, it's extremely exciting, all the work going on at the moment. To be a part of that is is amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Our very first traffic, big traffic project was on the Gallipoli underpass.
SPEAKER_03Oh, right, okay.
SPEAKER_01So now we're on the T to D, uh the tunnels, which Gallipoli was the first part of the Northern North South project. And now we're on the end of that.
SPEAKER_03So so that came from um your reputation that that uh that project?
SPEAKER_01That project, actually, that it's it came from no, because we would we'd only been um in business here in South Australia for not even 12 months. And Dean and our business partner at the time um were like, yep, let's try and get on this job. Dean met um with the partner, the joint venture partners at the time. One of them was Lead Engineering, who is still a client of ours, and a man called George Constantinitis, and he gave us a crack. He gave us a shot at it. George to this day, we still deal with George. Uh yeah, he's a great guy. It hasn't been without its ups and downs, but I will be for it we will be forever grateful to him for giving us or taking a chance on us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well that that's uh that's going back then to that very start. Where um you've got someone in your A team. And now this this project that's on in Adelaide now, which is ten billion dollars for the tunnel, you've sort of managed for that experience to actually hook onto that as well.
SPEAKER_01A hundred percent. John Holland is one of the head contractors. We've worked with again relationships. We've worked with John Holland on different projects, mainly rail projects earlier on, but since about 2009 or 10. And a fellow there called Sev. Sev also similar to George. We've been, you know, worked for him and John Holland for a very, very long time. So that's helped us get a foot in the door as far as you know being asked to tender for those big jobs. You do have to go through a full tender process. Again, it's the connections.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, you know, there's something else is uh, you know, sometimes people outside the industry, what's the misunderstanding of people outside the industry when they talk to you about your business and the industry itself? What's the big misconception that people have?
SPEAKER_01That it must be an easy job just standing there with a lollipop. And isn't that funny because you look at a lot of different industries and you think until you know exactly how it works, it can look quite easy. But the planning and the compliance and the actual technical side of setting up or planning and setting up a traffic management setup is quite technical. You know, there's buffering for the signs, you've got to know how far apart the signs need to be and why they need to be that far apart. The cones in a contraflow, the angle, and how far apart they need to be. So it's quite technical, and I think people misunderstand why the signs are set the way they are, or why they're set up the way it is, or they just think you put out a throw out a couple of signs and hold a lollipop and that's it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, it that brings me to a point that you hear all the time is um when the weekend comes and the everyone goes home, the signs are still left up for 40k. It at both ends. I've often heard about that, and uh, I suppose someone outside the industry, there must be a really good reason for it, but maybe not, I don't know. But that's that's one thing that pops up all the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 100%. So at times signs do get forgotten to be picked up on a department for transport road. Now you can be fined for that. Generally, and I'll admit I get frustrated sometimes too when I look around and go, There's no obvious reason these signs are out why why they're here. But generally, what it is, for example, and I only found this out a few years ago, if you're out on a highway and you get slowed down for no lines marked or new lines marked, the reason you're being slowed down is because the paint they use to line the road, if it gets wet, it gets really slippery. So new lines marked and a reduced speed is for safety.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01So generally there will be a hazard of some description that has kept that road at 40. It may not be evident what that hazard is, but you can be guaranteed on a department for transport road they would not leave a reduced speed for no reason.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I suppose if if there was a reason, there may be a sign saying why the reason is there.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, again, it's one of those things. Um it'll be some sort of technical reason, not obvious. People always uh and I I do the same thing. It's like we're at 40, you know. Again, there must be a reason for it. It's just trusting that reason.
SPEAKER_03As an owner, um, how do you know when to step in and when to step back and let your team lead? Good question.
SPEAKER_01I am a bit of a control freak. I'm the first to admit that. One of the difficult things for me is trusting and letting go and letting them make the decision whether it be right or wrong, or maybe not the way I would do something, but it still gets the same result. So I have learned over the years that I don't need to know everything. A lot of the technical side of the planning and compliance is my operational team's calls. That we're a small team, so they will we do discuss a lot of things, but I will often go, I will often say to them, What do you guys want to do? What do you think?
SPEAKER_03One of the things that always uh fascinates me uh with with people that own and run companies is what habits or routines help you stay grounded uh when the workload or pressure really increases?
SPEAKER_01That's um a loaded question for me. Sometimes I I work well under a lot of pressure until I don't. So learning a balance in that is important. You go and work out in the gym or I was about to say there's a there's a couple of things. So back about just before I turned 50, I decided that I was always quite sporty when I was younger. Played a lot of sport and all the rest of it, and then the kids come along and business come along and all of that falls by the wayside. And just before I turned 50, I started thinking that if I didn't start moving again, I was never gonna move because I would I would you know use being 50 as an excuse. And I found a little female all-female gym, and that was back six years ago now. Although that's moved on, it's been one of the constants in my life, and it completely changes my mindset. I feel like a different person when I come out of the gym, and if I haven't been for a few days, I can tell now it's like I need to go to the gym. So I do I go to the gym and Dean and I recently, uh just towards the end of last year, realized a dream of ours and bought some acreage out in the hills, and we're running a few head of cattle, and now I go talk to my cows.
SPEAKER_03I'll bet you've got a name for each one.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't. I have a name for a few, uh, or we have a name for a few, but there's too many of them to name them all, but it's my happy place.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and and I think that's important for everyone under pressure, and and pressure always increases and decreases on a regular basis. So so having that bolt hole or having that place where you can just be in your own space, I think is um is is is extremely important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's been a dream of ours for a long time to to have some acreage out in the country. We're originally come from the country, a small country town. So having that space has yeah changed my mindset a lot around work doesn't have to be the be-all and end all, or it shouldn't be the be-all and end all of everything. It's another it's another outlet, it's another challenge. Sometimes it feels like, oh my god, it's another responsibility, but it is it is my happy place. Yeah, oh that's good.
SPEAKER_03Um, well, that brings me to something else then. So how has your approach to risk changed over the years? I mean, both professionally and personally.
SPEAKER_01I actually don't think my outlook or or attitude towards risk has changed at all. I probably got better at having I was probably I would call risk adverse, but I probably got better at weighing up the odds, the fores and against and looking at what's the worst thing that can happen if we do. I guess I've probably relaxed a little bit in that space. I was never good at taking chances. You know, everything stays normal, everything stays safe, everything's secure, there's enough cash flow, there's enough this, there's enough that. You know, we've got everything covered. So I think I've probably got better at taking risks, right? Educated risks. Um, I weigh the pros and cons of things for some time in my head, and then sometimes I'm told, Oh, you know, I'll make a decision, they'll go, where did that come from? And then I'll go, Oh, I've been thinking about this for a long time.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's interesting you should say that, because I believe, and always have done, that I appreciate my gut feel. A hundred percent. Yeah, and I think I think that's something that happens along the way, and your experience starts to build, and and you just know I think there's something in your psyche that hooks onto things, and then all of a sudden, no, I'm gonna do this because I've this just seems right. And and that brings me to another question. Um, what qualities and look, you've got staff. What's the gender balance in your business?
SPEAKER_01Uh in general. In general, the whole group. It's probably if you include on the ground 60, 40 to female. No, male. So it's most so there's more male traffic controllers, but we do have, I think there's something like 30% of our ground staff are female.
SPEAKER_03Right, so it's a male-dominated industry, really? 100% industry. Yeah. Well, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01Um because But we have more girls in the office.
SPEAKER_03Right, okay. But you know, as a general uh business, when you look at it, it's 6040.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's definitely a male-dominated industry.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So what qualities do you look for when you're bringing new people into the business? Uh beyond the skills and the tickets sides, you know. I mean, uh what what's the the the two main things you would look for in some way?
SPEAKER_01Uh join the business uh in the office or on the ground? Uh both. Both? I think what we look for the most is those that fit our values. You know, our core values form part of of the whole business. So when we're interviewing, we look for those. We look for whether they're in the industry for the purpose of doing a really good job, or whether they're in the industry to make as much money as they possibly can and get as much shifts of the as they can without having to work really hard for that. I think getting people who have it's the it's having the right attitude. It's coming to work every day with the purpose. It's yes, it's a job, yes, it sustains you, but I feel that if you can't come to work and want to do a good job, no matter how big or small that is, and you can't take pride in what you're actually doing, then there's no point doing it. Right, okay.
SPEAKER_03Well, that brings me just to a very quick point there. What's the sort of changes in attitudes or expectations with the industry over the course of your career, being a male-dominated industry?
SPEAKER_01Well, we've dealt with some um pretty hard to deal with staff. When you first start out, you and you're growing, you need to get as many backslides on seats as you can. And in amongst all of that, you'll get the people who want to, you know, make waves, cause drama, not try and get away with things, take advantage of having a take-home vehicle or um, you know, be falling asleep on the job on night shift, you know, just to take they just try to take advantage. They don't tend to stay around long, those type of people. They just don't fit the culture. So I think probably having the right mix of people is is important. And I feel that we've over the years been able to make that balance so that we have people who actually want to be here and do a good job, not just take home a paycheck every week.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so what workplace culture is is probably a cornerpost of your business.
SPEAKER_01A hundred percent. It is. I think that then flows out to the service that um that we provide, uh, as well as you know, your management team's life is a lot easier if you're not having to be in a disciplinary mode all the time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well I I think that I mean it just points out, I think, to people either in a business or starting a business, that culture is a major point of having a successful business, having a an acceptable culture that uh that can sort of take on risks and hard decisions.
SPEAKER_01Hard decisions, and I think also you make make the decisions based on your values and taking everyone into consideration and those that don't fit in on that culture just don't fit. And we probably took a few years to embed it whereas they are non-negotiables.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, that that's really important, I think. And just for because obviously a lot of women listen to our our podcast. I mean, what guidance would you offer to women considering a future in a trade-based business?
SPEAKER_01It's gonna be hard, but I think you need just stay true to who you really are and surround yourself with your people. People who have similar values, similar work ethic can are there to do a good job, not just what they can get out of it, and who are prepared to give back as much as you give. Stand your ground, yeah. You know, with our core values. I wished looking back, it would have been a lot easier, and it's a balance again, but it would have been a lot easier if we had started with those non-negotiables and actually enforce them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But sometimes you need those people to be doing the work to help you grow. It's just hard to weed them out and get the good people in. It takes time. It just everything takes time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think so. And and I think the more time you spend on making sure that the people that are going to join your business really have those somewhere, those values, or if they haven't got them, they'll they'll be able to hook onto them. Zach brings me to have you noticed attitudes towards women in the industry change over the years? And if so, what ways?
SPEAKER_01I've been asked this a lot. I think I've been fortunate to have always worked in male-dominated industries. And I've all was always a part, you know, when when we were growing up, you know, in our 20s, playing football and netball at the local footy club, and we'd have a joint social committee between the two and working with the boys on the committees for you know the common purpose. I then have worked in a couple of different ag industries, which again were male-dominated. So I think for me, I've always worked in a male-dominated industries. Sometimes you come across people who you go, okay, they just don't want to work with women or don't value a woman in authority. For me personally, it's been few and far between. Right, okay. I have heard of terrible stories before, but I but I do think in the last maybe five, five to ten years, you do see a lot of strong female leaders in different different parts of the industry. And overall, for me, they've had positive experiences. Yeah, right. On the ground, I'm not maybe not, but as far as a leadership position goes, I think it's changed. I've I I believe the attitude in a leadership area has moved up forward a lot.
SPEAKER_03Oh, good.
SPEAKER_01Well, that well I've only seen positive experiences. I do get a little bit frustrated if, and that's probably a whole nother podcast, but with having your token female on a board or a I still strongly believe that if you have earned the right, you have the skill set that you deserve to be there. And I think that's also important as an industry to remember that no matter whether you're male or female, if you've got the skill set, then you have every right to that position.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's no room for tokenism in in any industry. No, I don't believe so. So we're coming to the end of our chit-chat. I've really enjoyed it actually. And and looking ahead, uh, what would you like the industry to continue improving or doing differently?
SPEAKER_01Our industry or the industry as a whole? The industry as a whole. I think we're heading in the right direction in a lot of areas. I think the traffic management industry is a part of the civil and construction industry with the changes that have come in with Osro's. There's a lot better understanding out there now of their requirement to have us and what our requirements are to get them on the ground. I think maybe better communication between head contractors, not the principal. So say the principal might be, you know, the department or the government, but then the head contractor and all their subbies. I think more communication, more collaboration between the head contractor and the subcontractors would be a good step forward. You see that on some projects, it has come about. I think moving forward, the value of subcontractors to head contractors and and that communication base and improvement there on some projects would be would be better or would move move us forward more. But I think at the moment, with the amount of work we have in our state, everybody's just busy getting, you know, bums on seats, really. That's the big thing. It's finding staff. So I think as an overall industry working together to improve that, how do you attract more people into the industry? You know, I sit on the CCF board and have for quite a few years now, there's a lot of movement in that space to fast track apprenticeships, which also come with its own risks. Um, but fast tracking apprenticeships, getting young kids into this a growing industry, and an industry that has a lot of jobs with unique skill sets, is it's exciting to see where we're going in that space.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think there's a there's a general move, and and I think always um it can be a gender balance. That's what I'd like to see in the future. I mean, our our uh fictitious person, Jacqueline, who runs her own construction business, uh, she's looking for that that balance of um and she's she's really been keen to take on people able to actually take that in and bring it to to the fore in the business. Yeah and well, I mean, I think that's we've been chatting away for a while here, but uh I've really enjoyed it. And and some of the things that have come out of our discussion today, Sharon. I thought, uh, which were really, really good for people to listen to this, is is leadership. Uh we've discussed values, we discuss culture, we've discussed discuss actually standing up for yourself and probably really good communication does solve a lot of issues. I know it does.
SPEAKER_01I have a a real bugbear with too many emails. It's like pick up the phone, pick up the phone and have a conversation because emails can be misconstrued depending on whether you're receiving it or sending it. The reader, you don't know what mind frame they're in. They may read it totally different to what you've needed it to be.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Pick up the phone, yeah, have a conversation. I value learnt this through COVID. I didn't realise how much I valued actually having a face-to-face conversation with someone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, I th I think that's so important. It really is. I think it it brings me back really thinking about sitting down and face-to-face is such an important part of it. Uh, the communication, especially.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03100% agree. And one of the things I always say is that if you say you're gonna do something, you do it.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_03So many people miss that point. Yeah. But look, thank you for today, Sharon. It's been a real joy.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me. It's um been inexperienced, never done this before.
SPEAKER_03Uh I'm sure hopefully people can uh hook on to some of these, take it forward in their business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, there was a lot of lot of stuff, and I could talk for hours. But um, if someone can take one thing out of it, then for me that's a bonus.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and me too. I think it it's all about helping people, and we've had the experience, so we were able to do it. Yeah. So thank you once again.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you. A big thank you to Sharon for uh taking time to chat with Jerry and share those experiences. I hope that you enjoyed that interview and got some tips out of it. That's the whole idea of this podcast is to have some tips and tricks. We'll be back in two weeks' time with episode two. In the meantime, if you want to get in touch, shoot us an email. Businessnames with gt at gmail.com. All the best until next time.