Season 2 Episode 3 - Staying in Your Swim Lane

In this episode, Gerry and Tina chat to Sue Abbott.  A graduate of the Australian Institute of Directors, she brings vast experience in business systems management, finance and contract administration. 

We talk about what it means to stay in your own swim lane and how to manage opportunities and risks.  Sue also has a lot of experience with leadership, time and self management and a whole lot more. We hope you enjoy this episode and welcome any questions or feedback.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Welcome and thank you for joining us on business themes and more. My name is Jerry. And my name is Tina. And we'll be delving into business topics which hopefully you find to be helpful and of interest. I've had many years' experience of owning and running various companies and look forward to sharing my experiences with you.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

And I'm just starting out in a business and have lots of questions about what's involved owning and running a business.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

The more part of our podcast will be talking with people who have started their own businesses and will share with us their experiences and their stories.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

So stay with us as we explore the nuances of business.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Been in the business for 35 years. And at the heart, may I say, at the heart of her work is a strong commitment to good governance, integrity, and creating pathways that deliver real outcomes for businesses and communities. Now, good morning, Tina.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Good morning, Jerry, and good morning, Sue. I'm delighted to be involved in the interview.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Well, I I know you always wanted to pop your head in. So uh the topic today is staying in your swim lane. How are you, Sue? Are you well?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I'm well, thank you very much. Lovely to be here with you, Jerry and Tina. And I've really enjoyed watching how your podcast has progressed so far. So I'm excited to be a part of it with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Oh, well, that's that's very nice of you to say though. That's that's lovely. Uh with the topic of staying in your swim lane, I'd like to start us off by saying, well, what does it mean to you personally? And how has that definition evolved over your career soon?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

So I think the the idea of staying in your swim lane uh is something that I learned probably later in life than was wise and and have felt some pain as a result of that. And I think what happens uh in in any business, certainly in a small business, and let's use the example of Jacqueline with her growing electrical business, is that you tend to get opportunities popped in front of you. And depending on where you're at, what your appetite, your risk appetite is like, and how busy you are at any particular time, it's really easy to get drawn off into areas that aren't your core business, aren't what you're the best at, aren't what you started your business for the purpose of? And you can find yourself in some hot water for a range of reasons, reputationally and financially, if you stray too far. It can be a positive, but you just really need to assess some of the risks.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Yeah, well, that that's interesting because um how do you balance staying focused on your strength while still remaining open to growth and new opportunities, which I think a lot of people do get into this particular cliche, if you like.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

I think having a really good relationship with the person that you're interacting with. So, for example, if somebody is to reach out to you and say, Hey, can you estimate this? Would you be interested in doing this piece of work? You've really got to know and trust not only the person that you're interacting with in that situation, but also understanding is this the person that I trust here and now, the person that if I sign a contract or provide a quote for, that I'm actually going to be dealing with for the duration because they may be two different people. And you may create a really great relationship of trust with somebody that you're talking to now, you've dealt with them before, but you may find yourself not having that relationship after the contract is signed.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yeah, well, I think relationships are are a major part of any small business as it grows, um, especially with other um contractors and people that you're going to rely on to do work. Can you share a time when stepping outside your swim lane, for example, helped you or hurt you? And what what did you learn from that?

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Sure. I've probably got examples of good and bad. Let's lead off with the bad so we can finish on the good. Signing a contract and probably using the example I just spoke of, where there was a there was a relationship that was built on trust in the delivery of a piece of uh construction work, but then finding that it was a very different situation after the fact, and having a team of people who didn't have the same flexibility as the person up the front who's negotiating a contract. And that's that that tends to happen in in big business scenarios when you're dealing with tier one and tier two contractors. Uh for and this is a and tier one, tier one are construction terms you'd be familiar with, Jerry. It's not something that's across the board in small business. But for the example of Jack Will in her electrical business, then she's certainly going to be dealing with different levels of business. When you get to a tier one contractor, that is, you know, somebody who is a global organization, then you are going to be dealing with a large team of people. As opposed to if you're dealing with a small business, you may be able to deal with the business owner or a small team of people. So you've got a lot more room for negotiation if things start to go awry.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

So I mean, that tier one is an interesting example because I think are you at a period in as a business, if you're are you at the period where you need to take on something that big? Or do you sort of step back and say, right, well, I'm going to need more expertise here. I'm going to really need a better backup system. Um, it's really sort of seeing those signals, really trying to negate that sort of issue that you're going to end up with. How about you, Tina? I mean, when you're doing your business these days, uh, have you got anything aligned with that? Uh, where Sue has uh just explained uh some of the issues you deal with, for example, in your business, your small business that you've started, Tina. I mean, do you sort of step back and say, look, I could do a very large project now, but I'm still not quite big enough to actually do it?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

I think in starting off a small business, the one thing that keeps coming up is confidence and knowing what your own capabilities are and knowing how big you can go. Like if somebody's came along to me and said, I want you to MC a charity ball, there's gonna be 500 people at it. I can do that, no problem. If they said to me, We want you to do a high tee in a venue for 300 people, I would have to think about that because it's not something I could do by myself. And at the moment, I am mostly working solo. I think also the biggest concern I would have would be, are they going to pay me? Or are they just gonna run out of money after they've had something? So being I suppose being very clear about what you can do, and there's so many different industries, like you talk about the construction industry, where people are, you know, doing jobs and you're you're you know tendering for jobs against somebody else and you want to be the one that they choose. But my question for Sue is that can you be almost like too confident in terms of this staying in your lane? Can you say, Well, yeah, I can do that? You know, they want Jacqueline now to build a 20-story building and rewire it and re-refit it. And she's gone, yeah, yeah, this is going to be great for me. But it's like, can I actually do it? Is that where we're going?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

I think it's probably a really good intro to um some of the feelings um around imposter syndrome. And certainly um that is something that I have felt in my career, and I think that most people do have that sense of, can I do this? And find themselves in situations where they go, Wow, where how and how and where did I find myself here and now? And am I good enough? Am I capable enough? And trying to balance that out with being overconfident, as you say, and saying, Yeah, let's go for it, let's take a risk. We want our business to grow. This is an opportunity, and going too far the other way. So you've you've really got to put a lot of thought around the risk versus the opportunity and don't get yourself down on the basis of saying, geez, I'm a bit out of my comfort zone here, but at the same time not taking aggressive risks.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Because you don't want to be a contractor where people will say, Oh, I got this person because I thought they're really good, they did a really good job, and then I got them to do this job, and they basically it fell apart, and then you get bad reviews or nobody wants to take you. So I guess there's so much involved, I think, isn't it? There's like the mental emotional side and there's the practical side.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah, and we all know what a re a bad review or a good review can do. But I just spoke about before we got online the the puppy that we've just purchased, and and that decision was made on reviews that were found online and it can make or break. I think we would all agree. And so, you know, good reviews and bad reviews have such a massive impact. And so if you jump out of your swim lane and let somebody down badly, or you jump out of your swim lane and do an amazing job, then you've got the risk obviously of good or good and bad reviews. But it's just, I think, having an awareness of it. And that came for me later in life, this whole concept of staying in the swim lane. And I wish I had been aware of it earlier. If I was Jack Willin in her shoes, and somebody said to me, stick it on a post-it note, put it on the wall. Are you staying in your swim lane? Are you at least considering the risks and the opportunities by jumping all the way over here?

SPEAKER_02 10:26

You've touched on a couple of things there, which is really interesting. And I I think this is a good point to mention leadership in a business. So whether it's small, medium, or large, the leadership, um, how do you know when to trust others to own their own lane instead of stepping into yours or yourself?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

I very much believe, in terms of leadership style, that nobody owes you any respect. You have to earn that from the get-go. In the other way, in in and probably in the same way that you expect other people to perform and behave in certain ways in order to gain respect for them. But I believe it absolutely needs to be earned. It needs to be earned by showing up, by contributing, by in a leadership situation, finding solutions, finding solutions quickly and efficiently, and allowing people to be able to relax because they know that if they take that problem to you, that you'll find a solution for them. And then it just sort of allows those people around you to decompress a little. So a few weeks ago, Gerra, you said to me, Um, look, I'd I'd like to run a podcast on leadership. And immediately my imposter syndrome jumped up and said, No, no, no, no, no, don't talk to me about that. I don't know about leadership. I know somebody great that you could talk to, and then referred you, referred you on to somebody that I felt was a um a specialist in leadership, and she is, and hopefully you'll have an opportunity to speak with her. But it it is just that mindset that I I certainly am capable of providing information about leadership. It is what I do, but but it is that self-doubt always that jumps in.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

I think you're right. I think self-doubt is is a real problem in in a lot of small businesses. I think you you do tend to have this point where things are really starting to go well, and you're you're really thinking to yourself, well, we can go for something a lot bigger than this. But you've really got to step back from that for a moment and say, do we have the expertise to carry this out? Do I have the people that are capable enough to sort of carry this out for this business? And uh like you've just said, I mean, one bad uh hump in the road, you're only as good as your last business. How well that went, and things seem to stick like that. But uh I think leadership, I mean, it's a topic on its own in a lot of ways, but uh it comes up in business every time when small businesses start. Most people wouldn't really know much about leadership. And and I think that's where people like yourself, Sue, that have had that experience, can really sort of pass that on to people. And I and I think that that's an area that has got so many humps in it that you'd sort of think, Oh, am I doing this right? Am I am I good enough to do this? I think as businesses grow, I think these uh the people at the top, and you've got to remember that there's no one else behind you. You're basically it's very true, and you do feel quite lonely sometimes when when you're leading people. But it's something that evolves, but and you don't you can't train for that. I think it's something inside yourself. I certainly think that, you know, I think there's there's some good advice there. And I'll just say, what advice would you give to people to feel pressure who feel pressure to do anything, be anything, or constantly compare themselves to others? I think that's where mentors come in along the way as your business grows. It's always good to have another pair of ears to uh help you along that's got a lot more experience. I think there's a lot to say. Um, I mean, do you think people are generally happier and more effective when they operate within their natural strengths? Or um why or why not? I I sort of sometimes think. Have you got an example where um someone has done that and actually um tripped over and and uh had to reset?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

I can't think of an example um particularly um in with somebody tripping over in that situation. I'm sure I've done it, I probably do it on the daily basis, and and uh if I think about it at length. But I'm gonna jump back to if it's okay, um, the conversation you were having in regard to mentors. Mentors have been one of the most amazing supports for me throughout my lifetime. My first mentor was my my dad, who was a businessman. And uh I'm very, very grateful that I had the opportunity to learn so much from his mistakes. And so the idea of mentoring throughout my life has been has been really important. And mentoring, I don't believe, is something that should come as a cost. So you can certainly go and find yourself a business coach and you can pay somebody to provide services. But the reality is that most people have, in the way that we're all sharing our time now to put this podcast together, are so willing to share stories and to provide support. So I think for any young person going into business, go and find somebody who's retired or nearing retirement that understands the space that you work in. Give them a tap on the shoulder or ask somebody who knows of somebody in that particular field. And they will, you're actually going to be doing them a favor by reaching out to them and saying, Hey, could you give me a hand with this? Because they've got so much to offer, but they're probably getting to the point where they're going, geez, what am I going to do to keep myself busy? And that's probably not the case, I think, uh, for most of us that are starting to get to that stage where we've got plenty to keep us busy. But the the number of people who are more than willing to share stories, advice, uh they're absolutely out there. So talk to them, find them.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

If I jump in here, I think the whole concept of any kind of success, whether it's personally or professionally, it's really about your interactions with people. So if you are struggling a bit, like you say, Sue, find someone who can help you. I mean, the workplace now is very different to how the workplace was 30, 40 years ago, maybe even 20 years ago. There's different people have different different ideas. Paulette, who we spoke to in the last episode, said you're looking at intergenerational types of workplaces with people with different needs and wants. The other thing is, I think, is being able to have the confidence to say, I don't know how to do this. You know, I've got somebody in my company that I really just don't get on with. They can do the job. How do you deal with conflict? How do you deal with when you're at the top and you don't quite know how to do something or that imposter syndrome kicks in? But also, I think in in my working life, I've mostly been an employee and I have worked for some great leaders and I've worked for some not so great leaders. And to think about how would I be in that situation? A lot of times people want to start a business because they don't want to work for someone else. They're sick and tired of being expected to work 60 hours a week or whatever. They want to do their own thing. But what kind of a leader would they be? What do they take from their experience? Or say, Oh, I'm going to be everyone's best friend. But you really can't be though, can you?

SPEAKER_01 17:56

You really can't. No, you you have to be the hardest worker in the building. You have to be the first to arrive and the last to leave. You have to be prepared to go and clean the toilet. You have to be prepared to make somebody a coffee if they made one for you yesterday. I very much believe that that is my style and that's the way that I've always operated. Um, I would never ask anybody to do something that I wouldn't be prepared to do myself. I think when you talk about that scenario, Tina, where you're in a workplace and and you've had you've worked with good people and and some not so good people, it's the people that are open and honest that are the ones that you've probably enjoyed working with the most and then have some respect for because they don't think that they're good to go and empty the bin.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Very true.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

They're not above, they're not above anybody. You're working as a team. Um, and yes, you're a you're the leader, but you're still part of that team.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Something but someone of you two just said that really made me think about the work practices today. For example, I mean, do you think social media and modern work culture make it harder for people to stay in their own lane? I mean, there's there's you go on social media now and and there's so many things that, oh, this is the greatest thing, you can do it like this, it's it's very easy and all the rest of it. But has it really changed the workplace, do you think, Sue? I mean, and and uh do you do you think that it's harder for people to actually stay in their lane? You know, you you go onto social media platforms and and there's it's always the best thing, and people are, you know, they're all they're all successful. There's no real failures there. You know, I think people tend to get a bit of self-confidence that's a bit fabricated.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

I I don't think there's certainly the the whole FOMO, fear of missing out idea, isn't there, you know, with those, with those generations. Um, but I I think we all understand that there's a level of, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna swear on on our podcast, but there's a level of absolute rubbish that goes on behind some of that. And the reality is that if you start peeling back, they are quite often just presences that are online and life isn't quite as as shiny. And I think that all of us in our gut, and for me, I always trust my gut. It is my um it's my radar for so many things. But at the same time, I completely agree, Jerry. Um, you you do see things online on LinkedIn from a business perspective and go, oh geez, you know, did I miss that opportunity? Shouldn't I be doing that? Um, but you also have to peel it back and go, hang on a minute. A lot of this is people and businesses presenting in a way that that shows them in the best light. They're marketing, they're they're doing their marketing well. But it again, just staying in your swim lane and doing what you do best. And if you're going to head off and jump into the lane over here or the lane over here, just make sure you've done your research. If somebody is trying to drag you across into that lane, if they've got you by the swim cap and they're dragging you over there, then find out how they're gonna support you. What is it that they are going to do or that organization is going to do if they want so badly for you to come across this way to make that a smooth transition? What's going to be written in any contract or agreement that is going to cement the support that is going to take you off in that direction?

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Well, just to you, Tina, what's your view of the social media platforms and and has that influenced you in your businesses that you're on trying to build now?

SPEAKER_00 21:41

To tell you the truth, it scares me. I follow a lot of people on social media and I'm I'm just fascinated by by the confidence that they have to put themselves out there and to say, well, today I hear I would do this, and then I went there and I do this, and and they get followers, and then what the more followers they have, the more. More people pay attention to them. It's a generational thing. Like for me, I have been held back on the social media for my business because I actually can't see myself walking down the road talking into my phone, going, here I am today having a coffee before I do a high tea for 20 people. You know, I just I can't see it, you know. So I find that a challenge. I also note that some of the people that I follow, who are mostly younger people, they then have to have all the accoutrements to go to social media. So it's not enough just to talk into the phone. They then have to add flashing lights and things that fly across and have a separate screen and it it does my head in to be honest. But if it's the way to go, then I have to get over my bias on it. But I also think if you were to post something on social media every day, you're taking up so much time when you could be doing other stuff, you know? And I know you and I, Jerry, have spoken because we've both were quite similar in the way that one of the things we do best is talking to people, face to face, striking up a relationship with them and talking to them. And that works out with the networking, and it took me a long time to be confident to do that. But the social media thing, it might be just something that we have to do, but then it could change. You start off with Facebook, you move to Instagram, then it's TikTok, then it's LinkedIn. And by the time you've done all that on all of those, half your day is gone because the light wasn't right, or you know, my hair wasn't right.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Well, don't talk about hair, Tina, please.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

What's talking about my hair? I've got new purple in here.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Well, I've got the light shining on the top of mine, which is non-existent.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

That's your brains glowing out.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

And I think I've done quite well this morning. It's funnier than usual, but anyway, I won't go into that.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

We digress, Jerry.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Sorry, Sue.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

I mean, we're not No, no, no. It's uh it's a delight to listen to you both laugh.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

But I suppose there's something that we um we touched on there. It's confidence, isn't it? I mean, you're in your swim lane and your confidence. I mean, a lot of roles, people, um, I think confidence is something that gets overlooked sometimes. And and when you do feel a bit down, I mean it it's trying to pull your socks up. So, I mean, it play it must play a fair part in staying in your swim lane without feeling overlooked or undervalued, I suppose. If you've got plenty of confidence and you're you're you fall over so many times, and you've just got to get up again as quick as you can and and and just take it on the chin and and move on. Would you say that confidence really has had an effect with with your journey, I suppose, along the way Sue?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

It it has. What I find if I'm low on confidence um is that I will just reach out to some to some of those that I work with or family members or people around me, and they will immediately pump me back up and just you know, remind me of how hard I work and you know, and all of the things that I've achieved. So again, you know, it whether it's mentors or it's family or it's friends or it's or it's work colleagues, when you get those little moments, uh, when you get flat and you do, you get you get some incredible highs. Uh, you know, I've that so many, so many moments in business where where you get wins and you're you're just walking on air because you're so excited and you know the adrenaline is pumping in in a in such a good way. So I think being a a business owner, uh very much uh it's probably like an equivalent to when people go to the gym and you get that adrenaline rush and you get all the good endorphins going, you know, or or a gambler. It's it's it's just that those feel-good feelings that people get as those endorphins shoot through. And and I would absolutely highly recommend it. It's quite addictive, to be honest. I'm not sure whether whether that's something that you've been encountered, Jerry, but there are so many great feelings that come um with growing a business, but they do get tempered in the same way when you you come crashing down at times when something didn't go as you planned. You um you spent nights and weekends tendering something that was in the bag. You knew that that was your project. You know, you'd you'd nursed it along from early conversations and then gave up some some family time or a big family event. Let's talk about Jacqueline again, and she's starting her business and and she's going, All right, am I going to go to this family event on the weekend or am I going to estimate this project? And because it the reality is that she's it's just her, you know, she may or may not have got her supervisor, she probably hasn't got an estimator, so she's gonna make that call. She's gonna make a big sacrifice, and it's gonna go either way. She's either gonna win that project and go fantastic, or she's gonna be heartbroken because she put all that effort in and it didn't go her way. So highs and lows, but it's certainly gets the emotions going.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Yeah, I think that's part of the leadership angle too, is that you've got to try and uh pull people up. That you do see that happen many times. Uh I've seen over the years where people get very despondent if they're if they're not sort of trying to achieve which they know they can do better. And that I think that's all part of the leadership is to is to recognise that in people when they are a bit below the the level that they think they should be, and it's up to you to sort of then bring them up. And I think that's a good leadership trait, is to recognize uh the people that you've built up and doing the business. You know, you've got to give that confidence back to them and say, look, you know, we all have those issues, and it does help to sort of top and step back and have a look at it. But I I think I mean leadership pops up in all the things we've been saying. So I mean, we will do a much longer topic on leadership that that might be uh a benefit to our listeners. I mean, when you look at it, um, have there been moments, and I I'll I'll give this to Tina and and Sue here. Uh have there been moments where other people tried to pull you out of your lane and you weren't sure? And so how did you handle that when people were saying, oh look, you can do this much better, you you can take on this, you've got the right confidence and all the rest of it. But how do you handle that when someone does that? And you gotta stop, you've got to really sort of stop and think, Well, yeah, what what do I do here? Um, what would be your process if if that happened to you, Sue or T?

SPEAKER_01 28:51

I I've got much, much better at that than I used to be. Um, and I've got much better at it because I've learned the pain of jumping out of the swim lane. So for me, I I and I I know when speaking with you, Jerry, you've had examples where getting out of your swim lane has been a positive experience. Your business grew as a result of that. So I think it's important to note that getting out of your swim lane isn't always um, it's certainly not doesn't have to be a negative thing, but it it once again, it's just an awareness of it. For me, my in my experience, staying in my swim lane has been the better option. And the reason that I'm I'm so acutely aware of it now is that when I have gone off and jumped too far out in a particular business setting, it is it has been stressful, it has been exhausting, and it has been financially, you know, it's it's had an impact financially because you are not putting all of your resource and energy, which we know is in any business quite scarce, in the direction that you had intended. And so it's a it's an enormous risk.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

And can you think of uh some parts with with yourself, Tina, where where you started your business and you know those things have come up in in your side as well?

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Well, not so much in the business, but certainly in many community events that I've organized, which I suppose is is is like a a job. I think it's the fine line when you're working with a team and you uh start off with an idea and you say, Okay, I'm going to do this, and then somebody well-meaning will say, Well, have you thought about doing that? And then you could do this, and then you could do that. Now I know the one thing I have learned, big lesson I've learned since starting this, is I've really had to have strong conversations with myself because I'm stubborn and I'm set in my ways, and I know that. And you know, now I'm happily admitting it, but I know then so I what I have to do is not just shut down, is to actually listen and go, Yeah, is that viable or is it not viable? Or actually say, Well, I think that's a great idea, but at the moment I'm at this point, and I'd certainly be open to looking at that in the future. And I don't normally talk like that, so I really have to make the effort to do it, you know. And as a, I suppose, as a solo, sole trader in a small, small, very small business, what I'm trying to bring in is my experience in working with people in a voluntary capacity where everyone has a say and learning how people operate and when it comes from a good place or when somebody just thinks they can do it better than you. And I think as far as this whole idea of the podcast, because you know, as we say, you and I, Jerry, have very different backgrounds, professional backgrounds. You have a a lot more experience in running a business than I do. Mine is sort of community-based, so I'm trying to shift my thinking into thinking more like a business rather than just a team and let's keep everybody happy. And a lot of my interest and thoughts are around the, I suppose the I don't know if emotional is the right term, but around that whole mindset, you know, your confidence, your belief in yourself, your ability to take uh uh criticism, your ability to evaluate what you do, uh, and take on feedback and not go, yeah, you know, someone said, Well, your sandwiches were a bit soggy. Nobody ate smoke.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Your sandwich, your sandwiches are never soggy. I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

But you know, somebody doesn't eat smoked salmon. Oh god, they've got no class, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Well, yeah, well, I eat smoked salmon.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

I know you do, but you're classy. Well, I'm finding all the people that we've spoken to in the podcast is really they've been so interesting because all of those things are things that I either didn't know about or hadn't thought about. Whereas I'm interested in the the the confidence side of things, the belief in yourself, stuff, the interaction with other people. How do you know somebody's not ripping you off? How do you know uh that you're not going to rip somebody off? You know, just to cut corners, you know. So I won't put any butter on the sandwiches, for example, you know, or I use margarine, god forbid.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

But you know I never tasted that in your sandwiches.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

What? It was butter. It always is butter, cherry. It is, it's always I want the money back. You better pay, I'll send you a bill.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Well, that well, that brings me to something else, Sue. Because I I think in in businesses sometimes if you do get stretched, right? You stretch it too much and it's very becomes very thin. Or and you're constantly chasing what others are doing. I mean, if someone's listening today and and feels stretched too thin or constantly chasing what others are doing, what's the first practical step you'd encourage them to take?

SPEAKER_01 34:02

I am uh probably an overly efficient person, and I would say that if they are feeling too stretched, then there's probably too much time being spent on things that aren't really um contributing enough to their day. So, in the you know, whether it's uh clear the desk, just declutter the desk, or just stop what you're doing if you're starting to feel overwhelmed, because that's the feeling you tend to you get overwhelmed because you've got all these people and all these things coming at you, and you don't know which way to turn, but odds are 20 to 30 percent of that is just noise. So, what I tend to do is I try I say, okay, well, what is noise and how can I take that out of this equation? I survive every day with my little daily diary. I, you know, it's very old school, it could just as well be on a tablet, but I I start every day and say, What have I got to get done today? What are my what are my three things? And I never commit to more than three reasonable, reasonably chunky tasks in a day. Um, and then there's all the things that I'd like to do. And so that helps from the very start of the day to re to set your brain to go, no, I'm not listening to that noise. It helps you to make a decision to say, yes, that needs to be managed or dealt with, but I think I can do that on Tuesday or the following Wednesday. Or in fact, the reality of this is this is actually just wasting my time. And I'll say, look, thank you very much, but I'm not going to be not going to continue participating in that. Whether that be somebody wanting a meeting with you for no particular reason, or it be an opportunity that's in front of you, and you say, you know what, it's not a good fit for my business right now. And so you you release yourself from the pressure of that by saying, No, that's in the no pile, I'm not going to look at that opportunity. When you start to do that, you suddenly find that you again, your shoulders can just relax because you've taken all this pressure off yourself that didn't necessarily need to be there. So starting every day with a with a clear set of tasks that you want to achieve and and being careful not to overload yourself.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Yeah, I think that's really great advice. I think people tend to take on too much sometimes. And and you're so right. I I think having that sort of list of uh tasks to do in the day and and prioritizing them. I always used to say to people in my business, I said, you know, because you've got a basket on the side of your desk and and you get all these things come in, and and uh usually you put the hardest thing at the bottom. But really, the the old the older way, the only way to do it is put the hardest thing on top and do first. Then you take the pressure off. And it might be the hardest thing to do all day, but at least you've achieved that and you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

How good do you feel after when when you've when you've knocked that task off and you can put a little tick next to it and you go, oh, okay, well, the rest of my day is a piece of cake.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Yeah, because because time is valuable. You go in there in the morning, you don't want to be be there at nine o'clock at night, for example. And and I think that that's a real lesson for a lot of people. Uh, because when you start your own business, you you're doing the estimating, you're doing the chase up for money, you're looking at other projects, and uh you've got a family to look after, and a small dog, of course. All those things. I mean, having an organized approach to each day is is is real gold, I think.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

One of the things that you said early on in our conversation today, Jerry, was was around people being do you think people operate better when they're focusing on their strengths? We had some conversation around around that early in there. And I and I think that's an important, another important element. I'm I'm a very efficient, organized person. Yes, I'm able to do the chit-chat and I'm fairly well rounded uh in terms of what I'm able to do, and I and I've had to learn those skills. Natural me would sit in front of a desk and a computer all day and talk to nobody. Um, that is that is the natural version of myself. Um and we all have to adapt, we all have to get better at things that aren't in our natural comfort zone. But in the same way, we have to acknowledge them, I think. And so when somebody is trying to run a business, let's just talk about Jack Willyn. She's a Sparky, she's an electrician, that's her skill set, she may absolutely hate administration. She may, she may have no interest in doing book work. And so the best thing she can possibly do there is to acknowledge it and not actually attempt to do that herself and say that's not in my swim lane personally, so I'm going to go and find somebody to do that for me. And in one of the early episodes of the podcast, you were you were talking to a couple of fellas and it escapes me what their business was, but they had established as as a partnership their strengths and weaknesses. So again, in business, early in the piece, if something isn't something that is comfortable to you naturally, yes, you may gain those skills over a number of years, but don't kid yourself because it's only going to cost you money. Go and find somebody that can assist you in those areas.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Yeah, I think that's really important. I mean, it's all about people and and it's all about your relationship with people, which you started with right at the beginning of the of the podcast. But I mean, today people tend to email, and I mean, if someone rings you, ring them back. If uh don't just uh forget about it. And if you say you're going to do something, do it. And and people do pick that up.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Um that's respect, isn't it? That's how that's how you earn somebody's respect.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Yeah, it it's small things that lead to bigger success, I think. You do those small things and it it gets noticed, uh I think with people that are around you. I suppose, you know, do you think people are generally happier and more effective when they operate with their natural strengths? I I think that's a real I think trying to push people too far too quick in your business sometimes leads to all sorts of negativity. And I think that that really is a big part of not only small business, but big business too. I and that's where that leadership angle comes in as well, I think, is recognising those and and doing something about it. Well, we're coming close to the end of our our chat, and I'm thinking to myself, I've learned a lot today, to be quite honest with you. So I think I think it's a bit of a reflection on on uh what we're trying to do ourselves. And I think Tina, I think we you would agree that we've uh we've had quite an interesting conversation across the three of us.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Oh, definitely. And I think being able to pick up some of the things that you've touched on. I think that thing about knowing your capabilities, knowing getting somebody to do something for you. Jacqueline could, like you say, be this definitely knows how to put stuff together, but may not know how to file something, may not know that she's forgotten to fill in a form for some compliance issue or some insurance thing. Being across all of that and going back to the very beginning, what Jerry was saying was about the plan. Before she lifts up a hammer or a screwdriver, having the plan, and a lot of the stuff you pick up along the way, and you might pick it up from a a mentor. I I've been involved in some mentoring programs, and they're brilliant because sometimes I think there's so much stuff to learn in running a business, and then sometimes it can overcomplicate it. But most of the time in your business, you're dealing with other humans who are just like you, or maybe not like you, but but they are human beings and knowing personality, having the ability, having the confidence. And I think, Sue, you've touched on some great stuff. And in fact, I think we could almost do another session with you, Sue. Okay, just you've got so much really enjoyable as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

And I I could talk about business till the cows come home.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

So we'd love to have you back, wouldn't we, Jerry?

SPEAKER_02 42:35

We would indeed. You know, I I I think to anyone listening today, I think uh today's conversation is encouraged, I hope it's encouraged your other people to reflect on their own strengths, your your own focus, and maybe even where you need to give yourself permission to stop comparing and simply own your own lane.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Very true.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Yeah, I I think there's there's a lot to be said for that. And and I think we've touched on lots of things that people can find useful. Um, and yeah, so uh Sue, thank you so much joining us today and for sharing your insights, uh, your experience and and honesty uh around the idea of staying in your swim lane.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Everybody loves that phrase.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

I do, I do. The thing is, I can't swim. But I think the real the real reminder here for all of us uh that success doesn't come from trying to do everything, but from understanding where we work best, uh where we add value and where we can make the greatest impact. So thank you, Sue, once again. No, thank you both.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

I've really enjoyed the really enjoyed the conversation. Keep keep it up, and I'd love to be involved in another podcast at some stage.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Oh, definitely. I think as far as you're concerned, Sue, I think we only tapped the surface. I think there's a lot more in there that we can learn from you, and our listeners can learn as well, and maybe even have some specific topic that was it was it was great though. Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you both so much. Thank you, Sue.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

And my name is Tina. And we'll be delving into business topics which hopefully you find to be helpful and of interest. I've had many years' experience of owning and running various companies. Look forward to sharing my experiences with you.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

And I'm just starting out in a business and have lots of questions about what's involved owning and running a business.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

The more part of our podcast will be talking with people who have started their own businesses and will share with us their experiences and their stories.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

So stay with us as we explore the nuances of business.