Agent Kate Warne: The Woman Who Saved History

Discover the story of Kate Warne, the first female detective. Employed by Allan Pinkerton, she went undercover to foil the Baltimore Plot and saved the life of the most revered President in US history - Abraham Lincoln. 

A true crime adventure that paved the way for all women in law enforcement. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Honourable mentions. Hello, Neil. How are you today, please?

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Oh, marvellous, thank you. On tiptop condition.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Tip top?

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Wasn't that a type of cream that was available?

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Tickety-boo and pucker.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Tickety-boo, I don't think tickety-boo was, wasn't it? Tip top was a type of cream that was available. Is it a pouring cream, I believe?

SPEAKER_03 0:28

I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Enough enough about dairy products. We're here to uh join our listener, who hopefully is still with us, to talk about another Honourable Mentions.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Or a single. Honourable Mention, please.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

That's it. Thank you very much. We will be going through the life of someone from history. Gives us quite a broad area to explore, who has done something quite extraordinary, but you may not have ever heard of them. So you're big hitters in history, people like Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn and George Washington. Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan, those sort of people we're all very aware of, aren't we?

SPEAKER_04 1:12

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

But in terms of these other people we're talking about, people are going to say, never heard of them. But you should have done. Feel the shamed listener.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Because they deserve an honourable mention.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

They do deserve an honourable mention. That's what we are here to do, to set the record straight. Think of us as slightly odd historical superheroes, if you like. I think that's where that's that's probably where we are.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

I think so. I can see myself for doing that. I might get a t-shirt with that on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yeah, do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Anyway, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Hello, Neil.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Hello, Steve.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Thank you for joining me, and thank you for joining us, dear listener, again. Now then, we're going to open today's episode with a bit of a trivia quiz question. So can I ask you a question here? Hot shot, pop quiz. Hotshot. Okay, mate, please. Okay, mate. Okay, okay, my great mate. Can you please name for me by population? I'm not asking geographically, I'm not asking alphabetically, I'm asking by by population, that's the amount of people who live in these cities.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Can you please tell me the five largest cities in the United States of America, please go?

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Los Angeles has got to be one.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

It has, yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Um I'm gonna say New York. Say it again. New York.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

New York, New York, so they named it twice. So I got you to do that and see what I did. Ha ha ha!

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Well done. Well done. Um Dallas. No.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Oh but you are right in Texas.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

Detroit.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

You are right in Texas, Detroit. Detroit is at the other end of the country.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

I'm sorry. Let's go with Austin. You can't find a friend. It's in Texas.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Oh no, but there is a city in Texas. Let me tell you, Neil, we have a problem.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Well, what's the matter?

unknown 3:16

No.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

Technical. Technical issue.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

No, we don't literally have a problem. It's a clue. It is a clue to the city for which you are searching your brain.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Ah, Houston.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Houston, we have a problem, yes. So we've got Texas, we've got New York, we've got Houston. Now then, Detroit is in Michigan.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

But up that end of the country.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Chicago. Chicago. Chicago. Yes. Chicago. And you've got one more to get pleas out of those five.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Incorrect.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Mr. Verda. Let's have a go with New Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

That's a state.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Okay, fair enough. Let's go with Toronto.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

In Canada.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

I don't know. I can't remember the cities in America. I'm just trying to think. I'm just trying to rack my brain. I've gone for lost. Miami.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Oh. Phoenix, Arizona.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Oh. Phoenix, Arizona. You can cut that out. You can cut that out, surely.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Edge it that out and make it look like it.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Surprising that one though, isn't it? Phoenix, Arizona.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

It is very surprising, yes. It's it's put me off my feet.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yes, it's almost like it sort of rose from the flames. See what I did there as well.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

That's a Harry Potter thing, isn't it? Surely.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Prisoner of Abs, whatever it was. Prisoner of I might be thinking of Aberdeen. Now, one of those five cities is going to be the primary location for our tale today. And that one is the first one you think of, if I threw some words out there like pizza, like Al Capone, like the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, like Chicago, like Illinois.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

It's Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

It's in Chicago. Well done, Neil.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

I've got it on the first clue, really.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

You picked up on my clues there.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Really? I've got no idea. What's pizza got to do with Chicago?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Chicago Tan Pizza.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Oh, it's a brand, innit? Anyway, crank on a cracker.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, I'm just trying to get some freebies.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

They're delicious and really quite easy to cook.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yes. Especially when they're when you cover them in tip top cream. Anyway, anyway, in contrast to our previous stories, today's story is about a woman, a lady, a female, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Wow. That sounds like you sound like a dad from Friday Night Dinner.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

She was an amazing young lady, this person.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

I'm sure she would be.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Because it's sent in America, because it's set in Chicago, because it's about a woman, we're gonna start and stop them with a bloke. As you would. And we were else.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Where else would you start a stone of such such magnitude? Such import. I don't know what I'm talking about either. If you will.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Are you drunk again?

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Uh what's the time? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

No wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah. Let me take you back in time to the year of our Lord, 1842.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Wow. 27.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yes, roughly. Nearly quarter.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

We're looking at a tough Scotsman called Alan Pinketon.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Doesn't sound tough.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

With a name like Pinkton.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

What, but Alan? Doesn't he? Al Capone? Yeah, but it wasn't Alan, was it? Was he not? I don't know, I don't think so. Alan Capone, doesn't it sound right, is it?

SPEAKER_01 6:54

He was Alphonse, I think, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_03 6:56

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

But yeah, could have been, though. Could have been mistaken. Anyways, right? Our friend, um Alan Pinkerton, emigrated from Scotland to the United States.

unknown 7:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Now, he had a trade that he took with him. Um, and his trade was no, not Lego, it's a good guess.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Now then, Neil, we are real-life brothers, are we not?

SPEAKER_03 7:22

I believe so, yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

The real-life brothers from the same mother and further.

SPEAKER_04 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

And our mother had a maiden name, which is a name before she got married, a surname. She didn't change your first name, but a surname before she got married. And that surname came from this trade that Alan Pinkerton, what he was that he was doing. You may have thought that our ancestors on my mother's side were making minis or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

But no, that was very jeans for the guy called Lee.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Lee Coopers, yes. Yes, that's another fine product that I'm open to being sent. But uh he was in fact making barrels, which is what a Cooper was.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

So So how come the Coopers don't make jeans then? Because they must have started out making barrels.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

They did, mate, yeah, but they got beaten to it by the Strausses, didn't they?

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Oh, okay. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Eva did it. Anyway, right, this is what happened. Stop saying anyway, it annoys me. I then left Scotland and went to set up as a Cooper in Illinois in the US of States in a place called Dundee.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

Really? Do you think he sort of made a mistake? Do you think he sort of said got a taxi or something? Went, um, can I go to Dundee? And then this bloke did a ringer on him and sort of went all the way. Hold on a minute, we're going on the boat here. What's going on here, fella? Your ticket tip thing's racking up a bit. I wasn't expecting to spend about five pounds.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

I say a taxi driver, don't we don't we normally use a pedo? You seem to be going a very long way.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

He seems to go a long way. That's that that charge it up. I was expecting to spend a fiver. Who are you doing to me, you thief?

SPEAKER_01 9:00

So he ends up there in Dundee.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Where's the iron brew?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Where's the iron brew in the haggis and the nips and tatties? Yeah. What's going on? So we're talking now 1847 to five years. Five years it took him.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

What do the hell? That taxi driver knew what he was doing, didn't he? Christ.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

So five years of being there, and he was out in the woods gathering timber for his barrels, which you need to make.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

For he was a cooper.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

For he was a cooper, so he was making barrels, it's making them out of timber. You never guess what happened to him while I was out in the middle of the woods. He only stumbled across signs of a counterfeiting operation.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Well, what would they put signs up?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

That's what I thought.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

That's silly. You wouldn't advertise it, would you?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Counterfeit an operation this way.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Please enter the kitchen.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Ridiculous thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Anyway, you come across these signs to a counterfeiting operation. And not being one to pretend he hadn't seen what he clearly had seen, because he'd seen it, because they were signs.

SPEAKER_03 10:04

It's one of those things where you walk past and pretend that you're not looking.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Pinkton staked out the gang at gathering some evidence.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Ooh, what just like give them some meat?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Stakes them out, like having fed them, staked them out like styrofoam cups on the dashboard of his Chevrolet while he wore a leather jacket that creaked on the leather seat behind him.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Chewing gum.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Chewing gum and his partner came back with some donuts and coffees. Just as he got them in, they started to make their move and they had to screech off a load of paper flying up behind them and threw a throw a pile of empty cardboard boxes. I don't know if they ever know apparently.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

That's brilliant, because that's what happens in the films.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Screeching tires and what sort of stuff. So that's what happened.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

But well, when they pick a knife off when they pick a knife up off a blanket, but it still goes. What's all that about? Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Not quite what happened because first of all, you went and got the local sheriff. And together they broke the gang and apprehended all involved. So he was in the car while the sheriff went to get the coffee and donuts in the styrofoam cups. That sort of happened. So af after that, our friend Alan Pinkerton became interested in police work and binned off life with the barrels. So forget all, I don't care. I don't care what skills I've got. I've got transferable skills.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

He thought to himself.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Yeah, he is, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Yeah, he he can make barrels, he can solve crimes.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

You'd say he was a proper tradesman because he can turn his hand to anything.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I think there's a TV series in that. A Victorian barrel maker that solves crimes in his spare time. Cooper P.I. in his big moustache.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Don't think so. I think you're thinking about Taggart.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah, Taggart, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Mudder. They do like how people do the tough mudder. Now I think that sounds like a really difficult crime for Taggart to break. Oh no, there's been a tough mudder. From then on, Pinkerton became interested in police work, as we've said, and he served as deputy sheriff in two Chicago area counties.

unknown 12:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Obviously didn't even have qualifications in those days.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Don't spread himself about, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01 12:10

What qualifications do you don't make? Well, I made some barrels and I broke a counterfeiting ring. Okay, you're in. So in he came. From then he became a special agent for the US Post Office in the city of Chicago. Chicago. That's it, Chicago. Chicago. In 1850, he then met a fellow upright and awful citizen who was an attorney at law. And his name was Edward Rucker.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Who likes to fight then?

SPEAKER_01 12:40

He liked to fight. Why do you say he liked to fight?

SPEAKER_03 12:42

It was a fighter. Because he obviously he was a Cooper, and this guy's Rucker, so he obviously likes to fight. It's a bit of a ruck.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

That's a rugby phrase, isn't it, really?

SPEAKER_03 12:51

I can't tell you.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Oh, is it a secret in Rookie Pink?

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Well, I can, I just don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Rucker and Pinkton formed the Northwestern Police Agency.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Ooh, they could have called it Rookpink.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Well, after a year, Pink Pinkton Rucker. Rookpink. They both sound absolutely filthy, though, don't they?

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

I say ding dong. Fancy coming back to my place for a Pinkerton Rucker. It does sound positively filthy. They only had it for a year, then it was dissolved.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Oh, not Anadine.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

What happened was that Edward was thrown out at the deal, and Alan's brother Robert came on board, and the Pinkerton National Detective Agency was born.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Ooh. So it's PNDA. Because they like to abbreviate everything over there, don't they?

SPEAKER_01 13:47

PNDA, they do, yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Hmm. Like FBI.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

They could have called it the the Pinkerton National Investigative Services.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Hmm. Why would that spell, Stephen? Okay. Well, it's like Azda, innit? That's that's abbreviated. E in there.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

I need an E in there somehow.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Pinkerton Extraordinary National Investigative Services.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Or exclusive.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Exclusive. Yeah. Yeah. What we need is a time machine, no button suggests these things.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Yes, and they could say say, Stop, penis.

unknown 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Later that year later that year, the brothers opened their headquarters 80 Washington Street in Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

I know that's quite a nice place.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

So that's confusing, isn't it? Washington.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

I used to know someone who lived at 82.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Did you? Who was that, please?

SPEAKER_03 14:42

A guy called George.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

George what?

SPEAKER_03 14:45

George from Washington.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

George, George from Washington. Good imagination there now.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

In 1855, Allen signed a deal to guard the Illinois State Railroad. And that was the first real that was the first big deal they did. The agency was taking its baby steps. But believe me, thanks. Believe me.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Okay, I'll try.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yeah. It hadn't even got started yet.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

That's intriguing. That's better.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

That's better, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

That's intriguing. That's that better. Sorry. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

So stop it. The Pinkerton National Detective Agency only went and grew to become the largest private law enforcement organization anywhere on I I meet you guessed this, actually. Anywhere on which planet?

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Wow. That's tough. I can't see them needing much on the moon and places like that and Saturn, that because there'd be the moon's nothing and the it's too hot for everything else. So it's got to be Earth, surely.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

It's got to be Earth and the Moon, isn't the planet? It's a moon. It's a satellite. But um every day's every day's a school, don't you?

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Eurostat is a satellite.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Moon is a satellite, it's not a planet.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Well, it doesn't be much TV, does it? Uranus. You are as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

The Pinkertons, the Pinkerton National Detective Agency, the PNDA, were hired to hunt down legendary outlaws like Jesse James.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yes, I like their songs.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Like Butch Cassidy Sun and the Sundance Kid.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

Hmm. Yeah, never heard of them.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

They're also used with their espionage techniques to infiltrate. Espionage, don't you like that?

SPEAKER_03 16:39

That's alright. They're spying techniques.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

They're spying techniques.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Uh what does he call it? Espionage and some of the that's the word you needed to form penis.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yeah. That'll just be childish, Neil. I won't spend too much time on that. But they were hired by likes of Andrew Carnegie. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

He has a deli.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

There's the Carnegie Deli, isn't there, near the Carnegie Hall, which we'd be named after him.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Was it? Well, was he an actor?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

No, he was a wealthy businessman, wasn't he? He was a very wealthy man. I think he was probably the wealthiest man in the world at the time. But I don't know. But what they did at the PNDA was they broke the unions for people like him so he could basically crap all over his workforce. So they made him richer, but I suppose they got money out of it as well. And while they were doing all this, they even found time to invent which form of crime fighting technique.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Um handcuffs.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Well, that's a good guess, but no.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Oh. Um disguise. Who? Oh.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

If you're thinking police officer strippograms, there's a clue.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Okay. Truncheons.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

No, mugshots. Had nothing to do with police officer strippograms. It's just what I was thinking a year ago, and I so no, they invented the criminal mugshot.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

Well, you can get them now in Tesco's and other supermarkets that are available.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

And yeah. Yeah, you can. Whatever you're photo taken with a number in front of it.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

No, there's a little another French word, a sachet, you can get or packet, where you place it into some uh it's like a pasta based thing with with flavourings, and you place it into a mug and you pour hot water on it, and they call it a mugshot. That's a pot noodle. It's not a pot noodle, there's pot noodles in this in the pot.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Okay. So I've mentioned Chicago Town pizzas and tip top cream, and you're going with mugshots.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Tomato and herb. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

And uh Lee Cooper jeans, which are quality.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

They are very good quality. They're very well made and lasts for a long, long time. And the fit is pretty much anyway.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

So there they were, these Pinkerton brothers sat on their high horse in 80 Washington Street. No, none of the invention of the mugshop, none of the capture of them, Jesse Jones, none of that would have been possible if it hadn't been for a lady called Kate Warren.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Ooh. She sounds exciting.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

What's that you say? Please tell me why, Stephen?

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Please tell me why, Stephen.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Okay, well, Kate Warren, Neil, is worth an honourable mention. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

She took herself to see Alan Pinkerton in 1856. And introduced and introduced herself to him, probably saying those very words.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

He told her outright that he had no place for a secretary in his typing pools. But she said she didn't want those sort of jobs. She wanted to be a detective. Detective work was rough, dirty, and dangerous, and certainly no place for a woman. Which is why no woman was doing it.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Well, yeah, that is true.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

But she argued she can see things and hear things that he would otherwise be able to see and hear. Why?

SPEAKER_03 20:11

She's got superpowers.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

No, because she would be able to go places where no man would ever dare follow.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Like um habadasheries and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Well, like the ball.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Yeah, yeah, that's another one.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Let's face it, even today, women go off in groups. I don't know what they're doing there. I think.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Yeah, they get to the toilet in pairs all the time. I don't know what it is. That's quite weird.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

You know those motorcycle stunt riders you get when they have about twelve of them on one motorbike?

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

I think that's how women arrange themselves on a toilet, so none of them have to touch it.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

I went to the toilet in pairs once and I got thrown out the greengrocers.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yes, where were we? We were going back to she was saying that no one will be able to follow her, no man will be able to follow her to the pillows and candles section of IKEA or the toilets or a habitashera, as you've said.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

I've mentioned IKEA now as well, so if you're listening.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah. She said, who was going to suspect a woman of being a spy? She turned it back on him. That's what she did. Because he said, Yes, he said, he has no place for a woman. She said, well, exactly, no one's going to suspect a woman. Because it is no place for a woman. That's right, it is true. So give me a job. He said, I should cocoa. I'm not going to give you a job when women can't picture baseball without looking up their arms made of shoelaces. So I thought I thought was a bit sexist.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

It was sexist, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yes. But then he gave it a thought, and he saw the opportunity, and he said, No, I'm going to give you a try, young lady.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Wow. What a nice man.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

What a nice man. So Kate Warren became a lady detective.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Ooh. Shouldn't L Dick.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Is that how you're uh is that how you're going to phrase that?

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Yeah, that's what I'm going to do, use it. That's mine, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

That's probably why they didn't go with penis as the acronym for their company.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Yeah, probably. But L Dick, that sounds something like the Spanish person would say, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

With Brees Wayne and Dick Grayson were living in Spain, that'd be what is none as.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Well, is that yeah?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

So probably get away with it. Kate Warren, do you remember Kate Warren?

SPEAKER_03 22:33

I've heard of her, yes. You just mentioned her a bit ago. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah, she she was born in 1833 in New York State. Right. And she grew up and she grew up in a large, impoverished family with a father who worked as a church minister.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

So she had a r she had a a sort of a religious background then?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

She did have a religious background.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Although she dreamt of becoming an actress, but this was vehemently opposed by her parents.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

It was what, opposed?

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Vehemently opposed. They were very strongly against it.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

They weren't having a lot of name of it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

They weren't having none of it. So she wanted to be an actress. They weren't going to let her. They were quite strict, etc. No, they said. As a young adult, by the age of 23, she found herself running the household and had been married and widowed. By the age of 23. So I'd imagine her mother must have passed on.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Or moved.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

If they were that religious, she probably passed away rather than divorced or whatever, not a thought. And if she's um been married and widowed, then the old the old man brought not her father, but her husband would also have died. And the clue I'm taking from that sentence is widowed. I'm taking it being windowed.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Yeah, no, exactly. Pushed her through a glass pane or something.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

No, I think she'd been widowed.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

But I don't know what happened to the family because she left them. And she went, she ended up in the uh Pington National Detective Agency persuading a pioneering investigator, ingenious businessman, to make her the first detective on their books.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Well done and her actually tell a lie.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

The first female detective on their books.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

She wasn't the first detective to even get a grip man. In fact, Neil.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

He listened.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

She wasn't just the first female detective on the books of the National Pinkton Detective Agency. She was the first female detective in the whole root and tootin' shooting US of A.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Wow. Wow. So there could have been others.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

In fact, Neil.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

What do you mean? She was the first.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

No, I mean there could have been others in the other parts of the world.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

No, because she was the first rootin' tootin' shooting female detective in the whole wide world.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Wow. But then again, how do you know? Because she was taken on board to be undercover, if you will. So how do we know that other countries hadn't already done this?

SPEAKER_01 25:16

How do you know she was taken on board to be undercover?

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Because um you told me. You said she was an actress and she was there to be a detective, and she can get into places she can get into places where other people couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

You're picking up little clues and things that I haven't verified as of yet.

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Anyway, you're right. So she began well and she went over doubters, because there's going to be doubters, aren't there?

SPEAKER_03 25:44

They're going to be the badly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

They're going to be the men, they're going to sit around, put you, put your knickers on, love, get us a cup of tea, that sort of behaviour. That sort of sexist pigs, we call them. Yeah. Those sort of people. So they'd have been there, wouldn't they? But she began to win them over when she busted open an embezzlement case that had gone cold.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

So all these men in the winter. No. I mean gone cold by the fact that no one had been able to solve it. So all these men together had drawn a blank, they're not been able to solve this case. It was for$50,000 of your US dollars.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Quite a lot of money then.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

It was just a lot. It was lots of money. So if you took that$50,000 and put it into today's money, how much do you reckon?

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Oof. Oh, that's got to be at least 30 quid.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

It is at least 30 quid.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Yeah. I would say 25 million dollars.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Well you do, oh, you are prone to exaggerate now. I've told you that many times.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

I do, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Um two million US dollars today.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Ooh, I was only a digit out.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

You're only a digit out, but also decimal point. 23 million, depending which way you look at it, I suppose. Yes. So all these male agents have been unable to crack this case, and she cracked it just as you said she would. By going undercover, as you said she would.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

And winning the confidence. And winning the confidence of the wife of the chief suspect.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Ooh. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

So what she did, she went undercover and swapped her New York state accent for a flawless southern bell twang.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

Wow. Well like bong.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

No, like y'all and sugar and that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

It's you just a cute bar of the sugar. That kind of that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Roscoe Pico train.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

So what she did, she ingratiated herself with the bezler's wife, who was from Alabama. She's down that way. So it's quite handy.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Yes, it's quite close for her, isn't it? It's quite handy she did that. It's lucky they did that there, because otherwise she'd have been a right mess, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Yes, otherwise her accent would have been a bit out of place.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

She'd been sent to Paris or Germany or somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

But she wasn't. She was in um, she was talking to this lady from Alabama, and she ingratiated herself, sweet home Alabama. Who did that?

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Lynard Skinner. Anyway, the wife felt safe enough to share a little secret that gave the whole game away and told her what her husband had done with the money.

unknown 28:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

So well done, Henry. So Kate, like a chamon, she was quite calm, you know, like a karma, karma chameleon, you would say. She managed to take this information back to her bosses, having transformed herself into a Southern Bell, now transforming herself back into a Kate Warren everybody knew. And re-relay them this information, which ended in the arrest of this nefarious couple. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

That's good. That's good work.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

So the Pinkerton brothers were impressed. In 1860, Kate was given sole charge of a newly created female detective bureau.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Ooh. Is that A FI?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

No, that begins with an F. That's the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Oh, okay. I often wonder what that stood for. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Not the Female Detective Bureau, which has the first letter, but not the other two. But otherwise, it's a good good guess. In this female Detective Bureau, she was able to recruit other women and oversee the opening of branches right across the USA. So they had some had some faith in these boys.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Yeah, they did, didn't they? Invested a lot of money in her.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

In fact, Alan Pinkerton said that Kate was a rather commanding person and with an ease of manner that was quite captivating at times. She was calculated to make a favorable impression.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

He sounds like he's got a bit of a soft spot for her.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

What he was saying there was Kate was bare bossy fam, but she knew how to flex and he had good vibes, though, you feel me?

SPEAKER_03 30:02

Oh, right, okay, yeah. Yeah. Glad you're talking my language now, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

So that's what he was saying there.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

He would tell anyone who'd listened that Kate Warren had never let him down. Not once. Not once. Never let him down. Even when he sent her across the road to start, but she came out in the right order.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

That's what that takes from doing, because normally you forget by the time you walk in the door. I do.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

She she never let him down.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

And now we reach the part of the story that really takes a twist.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Well, not twists.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Are you ready for this?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Yeah, go on then.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Let's twist again. Let's twist again like we did last summer.

SPEAKER_04 30:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

In f in February of 1861, a chap called Samuel M. Felton, who was president of the Philadelphia, Wilmington, and Baltimore Railroad, informed the Pinkerton agency of a deadly plot.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

No, they didn't. How do they know?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

I think it was like another it started strangling people.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Ah, right, yeah. Could have been, yes. That's probably what it meant. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

We're we're both running up the wrong dog leg, or whatever they say here, because our friend Samuel M. Felton had received a tip about, and I quote, a deep-laid conspiracy to capture Washington, destroy all the avenues leading to it from the north, east and west, and thus prevent the inauguration of in the capital of the country. Now the of and the gap there relate to an incoming president who would be err Abraham Lincoln. Correct. Wow. So the the little tip-off he had. How do you know? I think you can go and see it in the Smithsonian Museum.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Was about an uh plot to assassinate Abraham Lincoln.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

So he could get into places that she could have got into. Well, look, you've got the tip-off.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, perhaps this one was discussed in a mail toilet.

SPEAKER_04 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Or in the in the power tool section of a DIY show. Somewhere like that, on the terraces of a football match. Somewhere like that, I should imagine. You wouldn't have heard this in the in the pillow section of IKEA.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

No.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

This was top stuff. So Kate said that she suspected that the secessionists, and that's what we're going to call these people, because they wanted to secede from the United States of America.

unknown 32:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

This is this is pre-Civil War.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

So she said that she suspected they would strike in Baltimore as it was the only slave-holding city aside from Washington, DC itself, that was on the president-elect's journey.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

So she worked that one out.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

So that was her suspicion. She went undercover to unravel the plot. She went all the way to Baltimore, posing as a squirrel. No. To be a clue, she's done it before.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Oh, okay. Um an actress. A Southern Bell, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yes, a Southern Bell, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

She's only got one sort of routine and a reparte, really, isn't she?

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Yeah, but when it's that good that even people from that area can't pick out that you're putting it on.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Well, true.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Do you need to deviate? Do you need to have range? You don't need to have to be. But, you know, it's that good. You've got to be good at it because you can slip, can't you? You can, I don't know, you can bang your toe and go, oh. Do it in your your own accent. And everyone says, What? Oh no, sorry. I meant goodness gracious me, sweetheart. Hop, bang. She used two aliases while she was um uncovering this plot of these secessionists.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

One was Mrs. Cherry. And one was Mrs. Bowley. Okay. And she attended several parties and spoke loudly in favour of the secessionist states and became friendly with the wives of the men who were intent on killing Abraham Lincoln. That's a bit risky, I think, because she got in deep, then she did get in deep. She was rolling in the deep there. But if you went to several parties, what is the risk? What are the chances that someone at one of these parties can say, Oh, look, there's Mrs. Cherry. And someone else said, What are you on about? That's Mrs. Jarry over there.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

Yeah. How'd you get around that? Disguised.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

The mustache or something.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

Yeah. Exactly. That's what I'd have done.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

It did work. And while she was there, she uncovered a plan that Abraham Lincoln would be attacked on the afternoon of February the 23rd, 1861.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

So not only did she unveil a plausible plan, but she had a date and everything.

unknown 35:25

She didn't.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

She did well.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

The girl did good, didn't she?

SPEAKER_02 35:29

She did do good.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

What the plan was was that they were going to pass through the part of Baltimore, the rail station there.

unknown 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

And then while they were there, a fight would break out, resulting in all the police officers rushing towards this kerfuffle.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Yes. Well, you would do as a police officer, wouldn't you? You'd think, well, better sort that out.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

But Lincoln would be left entirely unprotective at the mercy of the session.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

If you knew what you're doing, you'd probably think to yourself, Well, we've got someone quite important here. We'd left would leave one person here to look after him, make sure he's alright. I would. But then, you know, I'm I'm cruelly I'm sort of criminally minded like that. I'm brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

You're a you're a professional.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

I I saw a documentary once about Abraham Lincoln that he was a vampire hunter. So probably he could look after himself. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

That all these these uh secessionist people had also chartered a small steamship which was sitting in a nearby river, and then they would head to this steamship and flee and travel immediately to the state of Virginia. So they had it all worked out. They had it all worked out.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Didn't they?

SPEAKER_03 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Traction, murder.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Driver ready and everything.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Exit, yeah. On a steamship, steam paddle ship that would have chugged its way to Virginia quite slowly and leisurely, I'd have thought. But there were the times.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Perhaps down the Mississippi, would it be?

SPEAKER_01 36:55

No.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

That's perhaps where they started it from, and the big boats with the spinny things at the back.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

I don't think the Mississippi is in Baltimore, is it?

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Oh, don't.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

And if you want to know what went down.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Here's what went down. The Pinkton National Detective Agency snupped Lincoln into a Baltimore aboard an overnight train from Philadelphia that arrived at 3.30am. So they were getting ahead of the game there, weren't they?

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Yes. Yes, the those people weren't even ready for it. They were probably still asleep.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

The president elect pretended to be the disabled brother of his carer. So he was in disguise.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

And his carer was uh don't know, perhaps that Kate probably was it? Yes, Kate Warren.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Well done. I thought you were going to say Tom Cruise or something, but no, it was it was Kate Warren.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

No, Tom Cruise wasn't around back then. It'd be more like Tom said.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Lincoln wore a loose-fitting overcoat and a felt cap that was pulled down low over his face.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

Did he have to pull a face and sort of make himself look all crooked?

SPEAKER_01 38:01

I'd imagine he probably did to carry off the full subterfuge.

SPEAKER_03 38:05

Yeah, of being disabled. Perhaps he sat on one leg.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Well, what happened? Kate had a shawl draped over his shoulders as if to keep him warm. So for her, she was so calm and natural in her role as a humble caregiver and sister, dressed to the part, obviously. But she was his sister, not not his not his proper nurse, but I'd imagine she by this stage she'd probably dropped the seven bell.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Seven bell, Mrs. Cherry.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

She'd probably gone for Mr. T or something at this point.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

They could have got them involved, really, couldn't they? Because they would have done it all themselves. They would have sorted it out. Because they used to do all that sort of thing, they'd go against vigilantes and stuff. They did. Yeah, I'd have got all of the Pinkertons, I'd have got the A-T, because there's only four of them there as well, weren't there?

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Well, do you know what? Before boarding the train, Kate had gained the train conductor's sympathy and secured an entire sleeping car for her and her brother, as well as their two companions, who happened to be Alan Pinkerton, and his personal bodyguard, a man by the most fantastic name of Ward Hill Lamon.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Nice. That's a Prophet American name.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

That's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

I would imagine he was a Le Mon bit at the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

I don't know, that's still quite.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

It was Lemon, they're just trying to make it sound posh. Like cremon glaze and all that rubbish.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

He was a big fella, I can imagine him. I can't imagine him being quite small. He was a bodyguard as well.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

I'm warred. I'm war.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Exactly. But these were the early days of train travel. Right. So there was no such thing as reservations. It's basically a pylon. So you bought your ticket to get onto the train.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

But then it was just a free for all just the way you got on, and it was that wear and everything.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Like Ryanair.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Like Ryanair, precisely. So I'm beginning to think that perhaps you did drop a Southern Bell accent. Dick go for a Mr. T.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

She'd have said, Get up my cabin, fool.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

I ain't gonna know she had a cabin, sucker.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Yeah. Yeah, similar to that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

So she managed to secure this, all the odds she managed to secure them this cabin all to themselves by uh chance. Nobody realised that the incoming president of the United States, who was under threat of assassination, was on board the overnight train as it safely chew chew chewed its way all the way into Washington, DC, arriving at 6 a.m.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Wow. So he's already in there.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

So these secessionists were completely formed.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Yeah, weren't they? Just they'd been like, oh, darn it.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Darn it, he's not even here. We've talked of this distraction. We've got this steam boat. And he's not here, what's going on? That bloke looks a bit like Lincoln. Go beat him up.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

It'll do.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

It's said that Kate Warren remained alert and didn't sleep a wink for the entire journey.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

So like Red Bull or something like that, maybe just to keep her going.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Or she painted some eyes on her eyelids. What they used to do in Tom and Jerry. The Pinkerton agency had a very famous slogan, which was a big eye, and underneath it it said, We never sleep. And it is said that Alan Pinkerton got the idea for that slogan from Kate Warren's attitude of that evening.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

So she was key to I don't.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

No, yeah, that's fine. I'm just I mean I'm just intrigued by that. That's very intriguing.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Very intriguing. She was key to the foiling of the Baltimore assassination plot.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

So she basically saved the United States as we know it now.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

As we know it today. Yes. She well, she basically saved all sorts of things, really, the world as we know it today, because as we know, the Civil War turned into a war of abolition and slavery. We've now had a black president and uh all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

So she probably saw that and knew all that's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

She she was integral to all that sort of thing going on. That's some that's some um That's an achievement you put on your CV, in it.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

That's something you slap on your CV, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

So she was key to foil in this plot. Not only did she help uncover its details, but she helped plan and carried out the arrangements to smuggle Lincoln into Washington. She couriered secret information and set up meetings as well as securing the necessary four berths on the train. So without her dedication, skill planning and protection, there was every reason, as you have already alluded to, Neil, my friend, that Abraham Lincoln might not have made it out of Baltimore alive.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

Wow. Wow, so Lincoln himself a lot, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Well, he did, and he said, I believe it has not hitherto been one of the prerequisites of the presidency to acquire in full bloom so charming and accomplished a female relation. What? Nah, fam. It ain't been a must for a top dog to roll with such a pain and sordid sister up in the mix, innit?

SPEAKER_03 43:06

Ah, right, thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

That's what he was saying.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

And for her part, Kate said, Mr. Lincoln is very homely and so very tall that he could not lay straight in his berth.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

They talk funny, didn't they?

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Mundane Lincoln's bare basic as well, thank you, bro. Like he can't live in lie in his crib or nothing.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Ah, that's better. Thank you. You got it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

So, yeah, that's basically what they were saying of one another. As you know, and you're probably about to tell me, the US Civil War starting in April 1861.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

That was just on the edge of my lips.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Was it? I thought it might have been.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Union Army commander George B. McClellan appointed Alan Pinkerton as his chief of intelligence.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

So he got a nice little well done pat on the head. Kate Warren, meanwhile, operated in the Confederate States at a huge risk to her own life again, posing as a Southern Bell. Passing on information back to her boss, Alan Pinkerton.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

So she kept herself out of the papers as well, then?

SPEAKER_01 44:08

Well, she was a bit of a celebrity for the stuff she did around Lincoln and that, but she wasn't huge. She, for example, the stories about the Lincoln Rescue, or you want to call it, or smuggling operation, didn't make any mention of her at all. The Pinkerton Agency received much publicity, but those reporters made no mention of her.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

Is that because she was a female?

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Who can say? Most probably, yes, I'd imagine.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

That's wrong, innit?

SPEAKER_01 44:37

That's wrong, innit? The Pinkton Agency received much publicity. Kate Warren was a pioneer, though, not just for female law enforcement, but for law enforcement and techniques in general. This is this is what her her real power was. She she understood that power didn't rest with making people look at you, but in making sure they don't see you at all.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Ooh, so she did have special powers.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

She knew, as you said at the very beginning, that no one's going to suspect a woman. They might be suspicious of all sorts of things, but they won't be suspicious of me. And she was right.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

She was right.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

She was able to do all sorts of espionating.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Don't worry about it.

unknown 45:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

So yeah. She lived uh a tragically short life, though. Have you got some tissues there? Sounds like you need them.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Well, it's exciting.

unknown 45:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

No, this is the tragic bit, Neil. You might get a bit upset. She lived a very short life and died of pneumonia in her mid-30s on January the 28th, 1868.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

That's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

It's unfortunate for her, isn't it? But she she was a pioneer. She did open doors for women in law enforcement.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

So she probably did get a chill from that very first case that had gone cold. She may have done.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

That's that's that's not any of the research I've found, but that's a very good observation.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

I know. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Pingerton, Alan Pingerton, was at her bedside when she died.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Yeah, I told you you had to do it for her.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

And he arranged for Kate to be buried in the Pingerton family plot in Chicago at the Graceland Cemetery. Now that's not the Graceland you're thinking of.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

I was gonna say, what near Elvis? No, he wasn't around then, though, was he?

SPEAKER_01 46:19

No, and it was also Tennessee, wasn't it? Yeah, but not in Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Okay. That's perhaps where he got the name from.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Chicago, Chicago. Well, who got the name from?

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Elvis.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Well, Gracelands was the name of the mansion, wasn't it? He didn't know that. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

That's where he got the name from.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

It was already on that called that when he bought it, I think.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Hmm. Well that because of it.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

This isn't about Elvis, for once.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Everything's about Elvis.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Keep Elvis out of your mouth. So this is the woman who quietly altered the history of the whole world as we know it, as we've already discussed. What a woman.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

What a woman. It's amazing. That has uh actually is an astounding story because yeah, that was she's got some guts.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

She had some balls.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Didn't she? Yeah. She wouldn't, she was a woman, but yeah, unless she can pretend that she had some balls.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

I wasn't being literal, you fool.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Anyway, thank you, dear listener, for joining us on this travel back through time to hear about the amazing Kate Warren and indeed the Pinkerton Agency, because we did spend a bit of time in their company, didn't we? Yeah. So if you would be so kind as to leave us some feedback, subscribe. That's very important. What would I say, please, Neil?

SPEAKER_03 47:36

Listen to the next episode of Honorable Mentions.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Thank you, Neil. Thank you, listener. And we will see you again next time.

unknown 47:48

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Bye children. Bye, children. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Howdy Sugar. Thank you kindly for being so sweet and listening to this episode of Honorable Mentions. I do declare y'all have no idea how much your support means to the boys. Now, I want all you sweet peaches to leave a five-star review, subscribe, and pester your folks until they all gone done the same. It makes such a difference. You can follow Honorable Mentions on social media and email the boys at honorable mentionspod at gmail.com. But be careful now because that's all one word. Y'all leave your feedback, and if you'd like a good old mention, well, all you gotta do is ask Honey Pie. Honorable Mentions is researched by Stephen Webb. But these boys ain't got the good sense God gave a rock. And they just say whatever comes out. It is an Uncover Brothers production and show enough that their theme they have was written and performed by Pepe and the Bandits. Y'all give in a listen wherever you stream your music and y'all come back now, you hear?

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Everything tastes better with Nestle Tiptop, pour over topping with a light, creamy taste.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Tip top.