Duško Popov: The Man Who Would Be James Bond.

Duško Popov was a good looking, exquisitely dressed, multi-lingual international playboy and, as codename Ivan, the top spy for the German Military Intelligence (Abwehr) in the Second World War, but, under the codename Tricycle, he was also leading dangerous espionage missions for MI6 and the British. 

He played a key role in D-Day. Warned the USA about Pearl Harbor and J. Edgar Hoover, a glamorous film star, and a future novelist all crossed his path for better or for worse. 

Join us for another fascinating Honourable Mentions with a twist in the tale.

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Transcript

unknown 0:07

Honorable.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

Hello, dear listener, and welcome to another episode of Honourable Mentions. Hello, Neil. How are you? Hello Stevie. All right, thank you very much. Do you mind if I call you Neil? Neil?

SPEAKER_04 0:25

You dippy bread and gravy.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Would you rather I called you Neil? Or would you rather I called you Dusko?

SPEAKER_04 0:37

Ooh. Quite not Dusko, but I I think everyone knows me as Neil, so I keep it as Neil.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Hello, Neil. We'll stay with that, shall we? The reason I raised Dusko to give you the opportunity is because that is the main person we are going to be following today in Honourable Mentions. And, listener, you may already know, because you've got them written down on your calendar, that this is the seventh episode of Honourable Mentions. And therefore, we have tried to link in something as a clue for you at the very beginning. Link in something with the number seven. And a gentleman by the name of Dusko.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

Dusko. Are you sitting comfortably? Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Are you sitting comfortably, listener? I think it is. Yes, don't be presumptuous, nearly. The listener could be on their commute, they could be having a poo. They could be laying in bed, they could be sitting on a comfortable sofa. We just don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

No, exactly. They could be fighting off a wombat.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

They could be fighting off a wombat. They could be swinging a wasp around on a stick. We just don't know what they're getting up to. But Dusko Popov. Oh yes. That's who we're going to be talking about today. Dusko wasn't his name, his name was Dusan Dusko Popov.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

Dusko like Dusan Dusko Popov.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Like a nickname, Dusko, I suppose. Like if someone is called Charles, they get the name Charlie or Chas or whatever it may be. Same with Dusan and Dusko, I believe.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yes. Because this is Serbia we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Is he still with this or has he Popoffs?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Oh, so you've got in there early with your pop-off jokes.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

Thank you. But I best do, because you always get you're still the line otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Oh yeah, because I'm always doing that. It's not easy, listener, being the one that does all the work, having to write the notes, read the notes, and then Neil just sails in and takes all the lines.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Sorry, little violin just going off in the background.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Take all the lines and uh yeah, just looks like the hero. But anyway, that's enough about me and my life. Dusko Popov, this might answer your question as to whether he's still with us, Neil. Dusko Popov was born on the 10th of July 1912.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Serbia 113 won't be still with us.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Just before quarter past seven in the evening. Yeah. In modern day northern Serbia, which you're going to interrupt me now, so I'll I'll just carry on before you do. In northern Serbia, which of course was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire at the time, I should imagine what you were just about to say. He he was the middle of three boys born to Milorad and Zora Popov. The family, this is the Popov family, were rolling in it, they were the Popov family. Your dough, your dosh.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

Oh money.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Your peas, your folding, your bags. Yes. They were rolling in it. They largely owned their fortune to Millerad's father, Omer.

SPEAKER_04 3:56

That's perhaps where you got it all from.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

No, that was Homer.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

This is Omer.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Oh okay. Without the worth of fortune.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Just the oh. Well, he was worth a fortune. Cleaned your teeth. He was worth a fortune. I have cleaned my teeth. Do you remember that in my lifetime or in the last week?

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Just in the last month.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

No. Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Oh then.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

No, I was seven, I think, something. I mean yeah, you had to do it because your mum was watching. Omer was a wealthy banker and an industrialist who founded a number of factories, mines, and retail businesses. Wow. So it was all down to Omer. It wasn't Homer. Even then, records from as early as 1773 describe. That was Mr.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

Fridge.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

This it probably was way back then. He was going on a going on a summer holiday to Serbia. But even then, records from as early as 1773 described the pop-offs as being loaded.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

So this is a family that comes from some wealth. Cha-ching. Miller had expanded the family's business interest to include real estate dealings. And don't you just know it? Look at that. It started to make even more money than they had in the first place.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Uh money comes to money, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Popov spent long, warm and idyllic months of the year in their large Dubrovnik home. That's Croatia, isn't it? Dubrovnik.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

It is, Stephen, yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Didn't they film some of the Game of Thrones there?

SPEAKER_04 5:41

No idea.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

I think they did. And they kept a manor in Belgrade, where they spent the winter months. They were attended by servants even on their travels and were only troubled by which yachts to take between their villas.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Oh, that was a s that's a tough decision, isn't it? That's a problem in life, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

That's a problem. You've got to choose a yacht to take.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Yeah. However terrible stress they must have.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

However, by the time Dusko was six in the year nineteen eighteen, the once mighty Austro-Hungarian Empire had crumbled. Any idea why the Austro-Hungarian Empire crumbled in nineteen eighteen, please, Neil?

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Was it something to do with the nineteen fourteen-1918 war?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

It is everything to do with the nineteen fourteen, eighteen Great War, Neil, yes. That is correct. Well done.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

No, really, I'm I'm proud. Can you see that? A little tear? I'm I'm very, very proud. The Empire crumbled into a number of small estates, some of which were incorporated into the kingdom of the Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes. Which was renamed to the far less catchy title of Yugoslavia in 1929.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

You'd have thought the kingdom of the Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Would have took if they ever won an Olympic medal, you'd be there for the next two hours when they just read out the name of the country. So yes, it became the size of the flag. It became Yugoslavia, I know. Imagine the size of the passport. This Serb-led state was plagued by infighting amongst its various ethnic groups, but the Popov family managed to rise above it all and continued on enjoying their luxurious lifestyle. That's what money does for you, isn't it? Dusko and his brothers spent most of their time along the shimmering turquoise waters of the Adriatic coast.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Oh, you paint a lovely picture.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I do paint a lovely picture, don't I? There's a little clown I've done in the corner.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

That's very good. I love what you do with crayons. Do you like it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah, a little house there with some smoke coming out the chimney, see that? Yeah. And the sky's just a blue strip in the very top. That's it. They were avid athletes and outdoorsmen, the Popoff boys. Mm-hmm. Millerud Popoff built his sons that own large villa by the sea for their exclusive use. So you can imagine what that was like with three growing birds. Three lands in it.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

That was the floods. Fridge for the Stella, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Yeah, ultimate bachelor pad.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

But he was also a bit of a stickler as Miller had. He built them with their own massive, massive house to live in. But he's also insistent that they each had the best education his money could buy. And before he even became a teenager, Dusko was already fluent in Italian, German, and French, as well, of course, as his native Serbian.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

I can relate to that.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Well, you are you are fluent in several languages, aren't you now?

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Yes, I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

How's your Serbian?

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Uh uh good, thank you. See?

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Oh, sorry, I wasn't relating to fluency in the language, I was just asking how's your Serbian? Is it still locked in your cellar?

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Yeah, still down there.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Between the ages of twelve and sixteen, Dusko went to school in Paris. Injur. At the age of seventeen, he was sent to Yule Castle, which is a prestigious school in Surrey, England.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

I've heard that say that's in England.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

And he was expelled after just four months.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

Ugh, God, what for? Smoking.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

No, because one of the teachers there, even though he was seventeen himself, one of the teachers there decided they were going to give him the cane, and he thought, I'm not having that. So he snatched the cane off the teacher and snapped it in two before he could be beaten with it. And for that, he was expelled.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

They were rebellion then.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

By 18, he was back in Serbia and enrolled to study a degree in law at the University of Belgrade. Now over the next four years he became irregular in the city's cafes, clubs and bars. Dus Dusko Popov wasn't just an everyday law student.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

Really?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

He's now grown into a handsome, erudite, well-groomed, green-eyed walking-talking sex magnet attracting the gaze of everyone in the room.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Yeah, I can I can relate to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Can you?

SPEAKER_04 10:27

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, when I everyone gazes at me when I walk into a room. But then I sometimes I never check my flies and up.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

I was gonna say that's probably because your flies are undone. Yeah. And you've got gr got gravy down your front. But yeah, older old Dusko Popov was well turned out, well dressed, extremely handsome, able to converse on many different subjects. He had the he had the kind of reputation that preceded him, whispered with a mix of awe and envy. He was Neil. Yeah. He was a true ladies' man.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

Was he?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

He was. That's why I said it.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Oh well done.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

By 1934, Dusko traded Belgrade for Germany.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Ugh. Why?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

He went to Freiburg in Germany to study for a doctorate in law. So he was continuing, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_04 11:19

His education was very much so.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

He chose to go to Germany for the geography and for the language. Because he could speak fluent German, I've already established this. So you know that his he speaks fluent German, so why are you questioning it?

SPEAKER_04 11:36

I am not questing it, see?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Fluent German, was that? Oh yeah, yep. But he chose it for the geography and the language and not the politics. Which turned out to be a fatal oversight.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

For younger.

SPEAKER_04 11:51

A fatal oversight.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Just go pop off. Oh. In some ways. Germany had been a place of order and beer halls. And who? Beer halls. Like now it beer, as in the alcoholic. Yeah. Pubs then, really. And halls. Pubs. Like the Munich Beer Festival and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

But it was now, this is Germany still, right? So we're going back now to when it was 1934. Well done. Paying attention, so I just got half past seven. He found it to be the site of mass book burning, political suppression. And he found the beginnings of a systematic destruction of the Jewish population. Yes, you're not going to mention who was responsible for that.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

No.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Or are we? Anyway, Dusko, initially oblivious to all this and very much ignorant of it.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Fair enough.

unknown 12:53

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Just be a German thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Gotta do something to keep him warm, he thought. Yeah, yeah. Dusko found his senses slowly sharpened by the chilling reality of what was going on. It was at Freiburg that he met a young man named Johnny Jebson.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Johnny Jebson. JJ.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Johnny Jebson was the rich son of a shipping magnate. And he also enjoyed the Playboy lifestyle, which matched pretty much exactly with our boy Dusko.

SPEAKER_04 13:22

Wow. Well, he had a lot of girls in scantily colour outfits walking around with bunny tails.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

More or less, the pair of them. Their friendship blossomed with a love of fast cars, late nights, and womanizing.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

Dirty pigs.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

So you see now why I said more or less.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

As their political heat intensified, Dusko became increasingly vocal. He watched horrified. Ahul Thank you very much. As foreign students were swayed by smooth, well rehearsed pro-Nazi propaganda.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

He realized the German debaters were handpicked party members, their arguments polished to a lethal shine. It was a fix, he said.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

Yeah, it is a fix.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

And Dusko Popov hated a fixed game just as much as he now hated the Nazis.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

Yeah, good lad Dusko.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

He's a good lad, isn't it? So what what's he going to? He corners Jebbes, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_04 14:17

He says Jebbook. When he sort this out.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Because Johnny Jebson was the president of Freiburg's prominent debating society.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

As if by coincidence, our friend Dusko persuaded him to hand over the debate topics well in advance. Armed with this intelligence, Dusko, who was now also fluent in English, became the go-to coach for the British and American students. He even stepped into the arena himself, delivering two blistering speeches arguing for democracy. How do you reckon he did the English? Do you reckon he was like for the English students?

SPEAKER_04 14:56

Hello. Yeah, definitely. Good afternoon, chaps. This is getting to talk about democracy. Democracy.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

And then for the Americans, hi guys.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

Hi fives, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Whoop.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

They would with literally everything, the Americans.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Woo! In the summer of 1937.

unknown 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

So it's nearly twenty to eight now.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Dusko finally finished his doctoral thesis. He was packing his bags to leave Freiburg when his apartment door is kicked down by the Gestapo.

SPEAKER_04 15:32

Was it?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

It was. I don't just say these things for fun.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

They took Just Deep to another level, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

I don't think they were delivering him anything. The Gestapo accused him of being a communist. Dusko was dragged off to prison with no formal charges and no trial. Just iron bars and a stone cell.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

That's not fair.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

His charm and good looks were utterly useless in there. So there was no female staff. So you just be aware of yourself, young man, because you might have the charm and good looks on the outside, but if you were to find yourself in a prison it could become your worst trait. In eight terrifying days, this ladies' man was just a number.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

What number was it?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I don't know.

unknown 16:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Let's let's pick one. Well, we're gonna tie it to seven. So let's say he was number seventy seven.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

Yeah. Good lad.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Good lad, yeah, we'll call it that. On the outside though, so while Dusko is in his little cell there thinking, oh no, well, I've got here's iron bars and and stone wall cell. On the outside Johnny Jebson had contacted Dusko's father.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Influential man.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

The Elder Popov pulled strings that reached all the way to the Yugoslav Prime Minister, who in turn raised the issue with none other than Hermann Goring.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Heard of it.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

The second most powerful man in the whole Reich.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

Second only to Adolf Hitler?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

The door eventually clanked open and Dusko was freed.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

Yay!

SPEAKER_00 17:24

But he was under threat that he had to leave Germany within 24 hours never to return.

SPEAKER_04 17:31

How'd they know he went?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

They kicked him out.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

They follow him.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

He didn't want to run about, did he? Oh he wasn't gonna chance his arm.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

I suppose he just got over the board and then turned around and went, Oh told, just so they couldn't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Yeah, then ran off.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Yeah, then ran off.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

He collected his belongings and immediately boarded a train for Switzerland.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

As you would. Tobron's good.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Has the locomotive hissed to a stop in Basel?

unknown 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Dusko stepped onto the platform and guess who was standing there waiting for him?

SPEAKER_04 18:02

JJ.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yes. Good old Johnny Jebson.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Good old boy.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Dusko couldn't believe it when his friend told him what he had done for him. So he said, if you're ever in need of any assistance, you need only to ask.

SPEAKER_04 18:19

Was it steamy when they'd come out of the train and they ran to each other along the platform?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

What do you mean by steamy? Do you mean actual steam from the train? Or do you mean steamy as in the sexual tension in the air?

SPEAKER_04 18:32

It could have been a little bit of that, but I'm more about the steam coming from the engine.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Oh, I imagine so then, yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yes, I don't think they were loosening their clothing or throwing it behind them.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

No. Running slowly to each other.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

In February 1940, so we are on 20 to 8 now.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Dusko returned to the sun-drenched chores of Dubrovnik.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Don't blame him.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Modern day Croatia and began practicing law.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

But a man like. Well, you thought he'd be pretty good at it, because he's got his degree and he's got his doctorate. I don't know, but he's having to practice. Who knows? But a man like Dusko Popov doesn't outrun destiny, Neil.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

No.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Bit like yourself.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

Yeah. Face up to it. Get on with it.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, well, he doesn't outrun destiny because that was his destiny that we're going to talk about. Okay. You can't outrun destiny because you just can't run. So that's it.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Well, there is that.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

In February nineteen forty, so twenty twenty, the sheltered routine of his law practice was shattered by a cryptic message.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Crosswords.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Johnny Jebson needed to meet him at the Hotel Serbian King in Belgrade.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

Well, that wasn't uh very coded, was it?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Well, that's all you know. He didn't know anymore.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

He didn't sort of put it in a code just to work it out. It literally told everyone if anyone if like the postman read it, it'd be like, oh, no where he's going, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Well he phoned him.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

Oh right.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Dusko Popov told his colleagues that he needed to pop off. Yeah. See him.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, it doesn't happen by accident. This this is gold. Then traveled to Belgrade. There he found his old friend transformed.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Optimus Prime. He was now true he was now a lorry.

SPEAKER_04 20:31

Yeah, he walked past him probably and then he turned back into a person. He's like, oh you buggy you.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Oh you're you're a one.

SPEAKER_04 20:37

That was a good one. Well done.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

But old Johnny, the reckless, high-spirited young man, was now a chain smoking, handshaking, nervous wreck. He was managing his family's shipping empire and said he desperately needed a Yugoslav shipping license to dodge the tightening Allied naval blockade near the crucial port of Trieste. Dusko, bound by that old debt, agreed to help him get one.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

But JJ had a far more explosive confession. He hadn't just joined the family business, he said. He'd also joined the German military intelligence service, the Abva.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

They won the University of Sun contest, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yeah. Yeah, they did.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

He was in that, was he?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

They were in there. He was he was the bearded one, at least played the the keyboards. Oh, okay. I thought everyone knew that. No. Oh, okay. Johnny Jebson, the anti-Nazi rabble rouser, was now an operative a forcher or researcher. But you'd know that because you speak Flement German. Jebson claimed it was a necessary evil, a way to use his business trips as a cover to avoid the ultimate horror, which would have been otherwise a conscription into the German army. His confession was shocking. It was confusing, but it was, as Dusko instantly realised, an opportunity. He wasted no time and immediately sought out a man named Clement Hope.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

There's a lot of hope in that, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Clement Hope was the passport control officer at the British Legation in Yugoslavia.

unknown 22:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

And was probably thinking his life was so much easier now because he was only doing passport control for Yugoslavia.

unknown 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:26

Not not that great bigger two way.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

But the passport control officer at the British Legation in Yugoslavia was the known doorway to an organization you may have heard of. Well MI6.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

Yes, I've heard of those.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

You've heard of MI6?

SPEAKER_04 22:49

Yeah. Because I worked for them in the past.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Oh, you're not supposed to say that out loud.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

Oh, it's all right. Damn, okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

They are your espionagers.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

Yes, they are, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Your spies.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Good old Clement Hope didn't hesitate. He saw the Playboy, the traveller, the well connected lawyer, and the perfect instrument for the secret war. Dusko Popov was instantly recruited as a double agent, with Jebson prepared to make the necessary introductions in Berlin. Together they would siphon German secrets back to the British. Dusko was given the code name Scoot.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Scoot.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

But eventually he would become known to his handlers as Tricycle.

SPEAKER_04 23:37

Tricycle.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

You might not when I tell you why he was renamed Tricycle.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Because there's strong evidence to suggest that he was given the code name because of his appeal to the ladies and his particular fondness of the odd manage etwa here and there.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

Eight at three.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

I'll talk to you off now, Neil. It's gonna be easier. I'll explain what that is to you later.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

I'll get some glove puppets and I'll run you through. Hope's instruction to tricycle was simple.

unknown 24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Cooperate with Jebson and play the Germans at their game. Which is a good job that he was Serbian and not English because he'd have lost on penalties, wouldn't he?

SPEAKER_04 24:24

Yeah, would have done, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

But there he was. On the adverse payroll, his code name Ivan. Ivan. So that's what they were calling him.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Because they've got no sense of humour.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

They've got no imagination either, have they?

SPEAKER_00 24:37

No. I mean we could try to call because he was there.

SPEAKER_04 24:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

What he was doing. Muskow moved to London, establishing a front as an international import-export businessman. This provided the perfect cover for his visits to the spy capital of Europe. Do you know what that was?

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Spy Capital of Europe. During the Second World War. Second World War? Somewhere in Switzerland. No. Paris. Belgrade.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

No.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

You're just gonna shout out to Yeah, you're just gonna keep going until you say yes. Copenhagen. No. Madrid.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

No, so you've gone with Paris, you've gone with Copenhagen, you've gone with Belgrade, all of which of course were under Nazi control.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

You're getting closer with Madrid.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

How am I? Lisbon.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Oh now Yes. Oh I can edit that, can't I? So it looks like you just nailed that.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah. So the the spy capital of Europe at that time was neutral Lisbon. In Portugal, not to be confused with Lisburn in Northern Ireland, because you looked a bit of a fool if you turned up there.

SPEAKER_04 25:48

Lisbon on his own, wouldn't he?

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Yeah. He was in this is in Lisbon in Portugal. A weekly civilian air service linked the UK to Lisbon, which is rather handy. And it was there, in the gilded cafes and discreet hotels, that Dusco would meet with his German hampers, feeding them a steady diet of MI6 approved half true intelligence necessary to keep the Germans smiling and unsuspecting.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

That's a lot to keep Germans smiling.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Well it does take a lot, don't it?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

You have to keep giving them a a brat verst.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

I fear the verst. That was worth it, wasn't it? For his services, Dusko was exceptionally well paid by both sides. So he was cleaning it in, but the true value wasn't the cash, it was the assignments the German intelligence services gave to him. They were gold mines for the British, revealing enemy priorities and military thinking. Dusko Popov was a legend in the making, a man of lethal effectiveness. A bit like yourself again, Neil, really.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

From London to Lisbon, he was famous for his playboy lifestyle, exquisite tastes, green eyed charm, and his casual excess, all while carrying out the most perilous missions of wartime espionage.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

Well done.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

His dude, isn't he?

SPEAKER_04 27:21

His dude.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

The Germans invaded Belgrade in Yugoslavia in April nineteen forty one and quickly took the Popov family hostage. What? In doing so they believed they well and truly owned their most valuable asset. But the British knew he was simply priceless. Yes. And both sides knew it was all propped up by Johnny Jebson, just a little fortia.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Yeah, little fortia.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Free of suspicion. Or so he thought.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

In nineteen forty one, Dusko Popoff had just delivered his most vital piece of intelligence of the war to date, gift wrapped and presented to the US Navy. Ooh. Yeah, more or less. The Germans, through Jebson, had ordered Dusko to travel to Hawaii and procure detailed schematics of a naval base by the name of Pearl Harbor. It was a kind of surgical precision that could only lead for a devastating air attack. Dusko made contact with the FBI, laying the entire plan bare with a suave and flappable manner, explained to the Americans how the Japanese were planning to strike Pearl Harbor, and he even gave them a date of August twelfth, nineteen forty-one.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Wow. So he should have put some clothes on when he did it.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah, I meant laid the entire plan bare. Oh, okay. Not himself. He didn't get naked.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

Oh, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

He might have done. He wasn't getting their attention.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

Well, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Start doing a helicopter impression in front of the window or something.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

Meat swing.

SPEAKER_05 29:08

But you still there, Neil? I'm just about yes. Hello, Neil. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

The immediate threat wasn't coming from the air. The immediate threat was sitting behind a mahogany desk in Washington. Uh-huh. You ever heard of a man by the name of J. Edgar Hoover?

SPEAKER_04 29:24

Yes, I do, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

He was director and founder of the FBI. MI6 sent a clear notice that Tricycle, who was Dusco, was a certified double agent, a priceless asset working for the Allies under German cover.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

But J. Edgar Hoover didn't care for British assurances. He saw the Immaculate Suits, Serbian Rogue, the man women seemed unable to resist, and he smelt deceit.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

Did he?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Do you think he could have been a bit jealous?

SPEAKER_04 29:57

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

I think so.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

The intelligence was filed, or perhaps worse, buried. Decades later, Dusko would recall his meeting with the FBI, and the chilling realization that his warnings of a colossal impending disaster was simply ignored.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Really?

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Hoover's distrust turned into outright hostility when Dusko bought one of his lovers, who was a beautiful, glamorous French film actress called Simone Simon.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Simon Simon.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Her parents must have been up all night. Oh Mrs. Simon. What should we call our daughter? Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

Well, if it was a boy, I'd have called it Simon, so stick an E at the end of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

No, that would have been S. Simon.

SPEAKER_04 30:41

No. Stick an E at the end of it. Simone Simon. Crevice.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Dusko bought one of his lovers, a beautiful, glamorous French film actress called Simone Simon. I already explained this, Neil.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

From New York State to Florida.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Nice. That's part of the world.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

At which point the FBI pounced. Hoover didn't use espionage laws, he used the MAN Act, a statute against transporting women across state lines for immoral purposes. It was a vicious petty threat. Get out or I'll ruin you.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

I'm an idiot.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

So Dusko left the US with his intelligence unused.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Even though he'd handed them a new and ultimately accurate date for the attack on Pearl Harbor, which had been pushed back to December of that year. So they had it. They could have stopped Pearl Harbor.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

I don't know what that would have meant to the war, because the Americans had come in. Well they probably would, because they knew that they were under attack from the world.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

It would have stopped Terravo, and it probably would have stopped Hiroshima.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Yeah, ultimately. However, Duskow's greatest triumph was still to come. And it changed the course of the whole war. By 1944, he was a crucial player in something called Operation Fortitude.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

I've heard of that.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

The objective was to convince Hitler's high command that the inevitable Allied invasion, D Day, would strike at Calais, not the actual target, which was Normandy.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

So this is do you know Operation Mint'Meat? Was that the one when they got a corpse and they put all papers on its body?

unknown 32:39

No.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

They the the Allies got a corpse of a homeless person, I believe, and they decided that what they'd do, they'd drop it in the ocean in uniform, with some information in its pockets about the planned invasion of Calais, which all fed into this other subterfuge that was going on with Dusco. And basically t to convince the Joymans that we were going to invade Calais and not Normandy.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

They also, didn't they? They have a lot of inflatable like tanks and things like that they put along the coast.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yes, they did, and things like that.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

So from the air, it looked like it looked like there was all the everything was all merged at one point.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yes. So there was a whole thing going on there, a whole illusion.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Back at the opulent hotel Palacio in Lisbon, Dusko fed the Germans meticulously crafted misinformation, and our little continental cousins swallowed the bait, a fact corroborated by intercepts of high-level German communications decrypted by the codebreakers at Bletchley Park. So by this stage, we were feeding them a load of bull. They were falling for it. They didn't know that we knew they were falling for it, because Bletchley Park, they were decoding the Enigma messages that the Germans thought were unbreakable. Then came news of a shattering blow.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Oh go on.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Johnny Jebson was arrested by the Gestapo in Lisbon.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

In Lisbon?

SPEAKER_00 34:12

In Lisbon, even though it was neutral territory. Yeah. The British immediately panicked. They thought Will Jebson crack under torture, was tricycle now compromised. All vital intelligence to Dusko ceased. And he was placed on ice and asset too hot to touch. So all of a sudden he was just frozen out of everything.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

But German intelligence still believed in their man, and MICs quickly realized the game was on.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Operation Fortitude worked like a dream. Germany held their crucial reserves at Calais, waiting for an attack that never came. And the D Day Normandy landings were a success.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

They weren't a walk in the park by any means.

SPEAKER_04 35:03

Hell of a lot worse, should I say? Hell of a lot worse.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Exactly, but that was the full weight of the German army waiting for him at Normandy. Most of the German army are off at Calais.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

I cannot see them through my telescope. That's German. He said I cannot see them through my telescope.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

I was gonna ask you to translate because I didn't understand the German. But I don't speak these languages, you see. Thank you. Also have the listener, don't whether can you speak German, the listener? I'm glad Neil's here to translate when he does.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

But victory, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Still there.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

I'm just here.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Victory came at a terrible price.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Ooh. For R2P.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

For Dusko. Because news filtered through that Johnny Jebson had been brutally executed by the Nazis.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

They're gits, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Dusko was devastated. Yes, they've they're famously were gits. Yes. I think that was probably what they're most famous for, the the the Nazis. Dusko was devastated. He played his game perfectly, saved thousands of lives, and yet the only man he truly trusted was gone, sacrificed for the very deception they had perfected. Yeah. He was a hero, he was a survivor, but now he was alone.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

Yeah. Poor boy.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

The war was ending, but for Dusko Popoff the most dangerous game was about to begin. He held the secrets of the Allied victory, and he held the shame of Hoover's failure. And he knew that in peacetime, men who knew too much rarely lived to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Really?

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Who would come for him first? The Germans seeking revenge or the Americans seeking silence.

SPEAKER_04 36:48

Wow. Who do you think? Possibly the Americans because of a Pearl Arbor thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

The answer?

SPEAKER_04 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Neither of them. Doskopov didn't die until 1981, at the ironic age of 69.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Wow. Why is it ironic?

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Well, give it his little sporting background.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

Oh yes, sorry, yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

He was described as an intelligent, cultured man, and he charmed most people who came into contact with him. Anyways, Neil, right? Hello, Neil. Oh T V. Why? Oh why, oh, why oh, why? Are we choosing to dedicate an entire honourable mentions episode to Dusko Popov? He's already done some incredible things.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

He has, isn't he? Wonderful things.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

But it's not his wartime heroics that makes him worthy of an honourable mention. Instead, it was something you did during the war, just before the Abva flew him out to Hawaii. Something that to him at least was completely unremarkable. One evening, dressed in a perfectly tailored black dinner jacket and bow tie, Dusko was playing Baccarat in the Esther All Casino just outside of Lisbon.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Now, as you'd know, Baccarat is a card game.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

I didn't know that name. I thought it was a singer or a composer.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

You're thinking of those two ladies who sung Yes Sir I can boogie. I think they were called Bacara or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

I was thinking about Bert Baccarac.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Oh Bert Baccarak?

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Bert Backache. Yes. Yes, of course. He did rain drops a falling on my head.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

And all sorts of things, didn't he? Walk on by. What do you get when you fall in love?

SPEAKER_04 38:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Tommy's gone.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

No, that's perfect, thank you. I'm nearly asleep now.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

So one evening, dressed in a perfectly tailored black dinner jacket and bow tie, Dusko was playing Baccharat in the Esther Old Casino just outside of Lisbon.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

The game was heading to a conclusion, and Dusko, already drawing a lot of attention because he was Dusko, made an extravagant bet to either lose a small fortune or destroy his Nazi opponent.

SPEAKER_04 39:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

The room gasped. Dusko Popov remained unflustered. Yeah. The cards were turned. Yeah. And Dusko had won.

unknown 39:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 39:25

Because newly had.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Danikoff, said the German.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

Did they?

SPEAKER_00 39:29

I should imagine. That's my Germanist.

SPEAKER_04 39:32

That's very good.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Yeah, I thought so. For him, like I say, this was nothing special. This is the sort of thing Dusko did most of the time, just to kill a few hours in the evening. But for a British intelligent officer looking on, a seed of an idea began to form in his mind. Okay. That officer was Commander Ian Fleming.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

And the seed of an idea eventually blossomed into the world's most Famous secret agent.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Inspector Gadget.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Oh no, sorry. Double O seven.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Double O seven himself. James Bond. James Bond. Wow. Dang, glang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, glang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, glang, dang, dang, dang, that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Wow. Fleming knew Dusko Popov well. And was involved in setting up some of the espionage operations he carried out. He he admired Dusko's lifestyle his way with people, especially women.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

And his cleaning out of Nazi agents at the gambling tables in neutral Portugal. The high-stakes Baccarat game is most likely to have formed the basis of Casino Royale, his debut James Bond novel. However, it is recognized there is no one source of inspiration for Bond. Fleming drew on several characters, his own imagination, and even some of his own exploits. But the suave, sophisticated, immaculately dressed, good-looking lover of the finer things in life, secret agent Dusko Popov is certainly a large part of the man we see on the screen, a real life, James Bond.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Howie.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

And this listener, if you're still there and you are paying attention, and for you as well, Neil. Hello, Neil.

SPEAKER_04 41:37

Hello, Stephen.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

And for you there, Neil. I said at the start, didn't I? This is episode seven. And we'll try and do something that links into episode seven. And I've come up with double O seven. Well done. It's almost like this stuff happens by accident, but it doesn't. There's a lot of hard work under the surface. Oh no. So there you go. The real inspiration for James Bond was a Serbian by the name of Dusko Popov.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

And he did all that through the war as well.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Wow. What a man.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

What a fella.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

Good looking, suave, sophisticated, yeah, I can relate to all that.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

He liked fast cars. He knew all his wines and his whiskies and all that sort of stuff. But Dusko did say that one thing that he doesn't agree that he was anything like for the James Bond inspiration was he believed James Bond was an alcoholic. If he was a real person.

SPEAKER_04 42:39

If he was a real person.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Just because if you'd drunk that much, you wouldn't be an effective spy because you'd be falling over yourself. Yeah, if you're trying to be so above and sophisticated, you can't Well, as we said earlier, of course, you walking into a cafe or a restaurant and attracting everyone's gaze because your lies are undone, you've got gravy down your shirt, and your shirt's untocked.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

James Bon Pro wouldn't sell so much of us like that, would it?

SPEAKER_00 43:02

No, people wouldn't be queuing round the corner of the cinema house. Well, that's enough of our goings on. Dear listener, thank you for joining us yet again. Next week we'll be bringing you a brand new episode as we approach the period we call Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Ho ho ho Until then, do have yourselves a good week and listen to Honourable Mentions Bye Bye bye Ding Ding ding ding ding.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

Why are you walking stylewise and turn it to turning? There you go.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Thank you. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Bye then. Bye. The name's Bond. Not that one, but a totally unrelated non-copyright infringement bond. Taken, but not stirred. I'm here to thank you for listening to yet more builds from those honorable mentions, boys. You know, MI6 has them piped in to break prisoners in interrogation. Remarkably effective. 20 minutes. And they can't take any more. So thank you. Your support means a lot to them in the country. Please keep the podcast, going by liking, subscribing, and sharing, and don't forget to leave us like the review. Most important ideas. If you can believe it. Steven Web. It is an uncle broader production. And the thing too by PPA independent. I could make my thing too. Thank you. Or it's a new script.