Fred Kroll: The Man Who Ate Up The 1970's Toy Market

Discover the incredible true story of Fred Kroll, the visionary behind some of the most iconic board games in history. In this episode of Honourable Mentions, we dive deep into the 1970s toy market to explore how Kroll and the Pressman Toy Corporation revolutionised the way we play.

​From the chaotic clicking of Hungry Hungry Hippos to the rhythmic popping of the Trouble game (and its legendary Pop-O-Matic bubble), Fred Kroll didn’t just sell toys—he created cultural phenomenons. Join us as we trace the history of vintage toys, the high-stakes business of toy industry acquisitions, and the legacy of the man who defined a generation of childhood fun.

​Whether you're a fan of board game history, a collector of 70s nostalgia, or interested in the business of toy inventors, this episode is a must-listen look at the golden age of play.

Email honourablementionspod@gmail.com 

Website

honourablementions.buzzsprout.com

Facebook

Honourable Mentions 

Instagram 

honourablementionspod

TikTok 

honourable.mentionspod

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:07

Honourable Major. Hello, Neil. Hello, Stevie. How are you? Oh shush. Here's our listener. Hello, listener. How are you? Merry nearly Christmas to you, dear listener. And of course, Merry Nearly Christmas to you. Hello, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Thank you, Stevie.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Have you done anything nearly Christmassy?

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Um I have. I've got all my decorations up. Have you? Did you put the tree up yourself? No, I left it in the front room.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

Hey. I set em up, you knock 'em down.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_05 0:40

That's the best way to go, isn't it? Wish our listener a very merry near Christmas. And today we're going to tell a Christmasish story. We will actually be having a Christmas story next week, but for today we're having a Christmas-ish story. Is this on Ching Chong Ching Ching Ching Ching Ching?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Honourable mentions. That was Santa's Bells.

SPEAKER_05 1:09

Was it? That was very good.

unknown 1:11

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

That was very good. Today we're going to talk about the Zenith, the apex uh the peak of human civilization.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Alright.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

So that's already set you up, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

It has, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:27

And to do that, we need to travel back in time to nineteenth century Belarus. Oh yes. Now Belarus in the nineteenth century. In fact, I can be more specific, I can tell you that we're talking about the year 1896.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Okay. Is that the is that the buzz?

SPEAKER_05 1:49

No, that's the year 1896. Four years before the year 1900. And a hundred and four years before the year two thousand.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Wow, that was quick maths.

SPEAKER_05 2:00

Let's all meet up in the year two thousand.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:03

That was a song by the pulpes.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

It was, yes. Mr. Conker.

SPEAKER_05 2:08

Pardon? You've done what?

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Oh sorry, yeah. I've gone off I've gone off on a tangent then.

SPEAKER_05 2:13

I thought you needed to rearrange something.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

You constable?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Yeah, I'm alright now, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 2:17

You're alright now. Okay. So in 1896, in your Belarus, your aforementioned Belarus, a lady called Ethel Kral left her home. Ethel Kroll. Are you saying that properly, please? I am saying that properly because it's Kilo, Romeo, Oscar, Lima, Lima.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

And that roll with a K in the start of it.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

And that was your phonetic alphabet, listener.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Well done.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

So yes, Ethel Kroll left a home in Vilmius.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Oh yes, no, that's quite well.

SPEAKER_05 2:52

Near Minsk.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

But she wasn't just leaving a home to go to the shops. She wasn't on her way to Tesco or anything like that. No, Ethel Kroll was leaving to join her husband, Barnett, known to all as Barney. Barnet? Yeah, but it's known to all as Barney. Barnet Kroll. No, but Barney Kroll is how he went. He'd established himself in a little village in the USA by the name of New York.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Stephen, that's not a village.

SPEAKER_05 3:24

What's that?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

New York.

SPEAKER_05 3:27

New York it is.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

It isn't.

SPEAKER_05 3:29

It is, because the York, right? York is in the north of England, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

That's a city.

SPEAKER_05 3:36

Yeah. And this is the New York.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

So it's like It's still a city, Stephen. Is it? Yes, not a village.

SPEAKER_05 3:44

It wasn't when I went, there was a place called the Village when I went.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Name dropping again.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

Clang in New York, there's a village. Anyways, enough of this idle banter. Let's go on with the story. She didn't just leave, as we say, to Tesco, she was on her way to the US of States, and with her she had her three sons, twelve-year-old Simon. Now you're gonna have to pay attention here because it can get confusing. We've already met Barney, whose actual name is Barnett. So she took three sons with her, twelve-year-old Simon, who for some reason was known as Sam. Eight-year-old Henry, who was known as Harry, and five year old Charles, known as Charlie, which makes more sense. What's all the point of that? I just want to just call him Sam. Well, let's just call her kid Sam. Why do you call it Simon? I would name it Sam.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

But then again, we'll just call him Sam.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

Prince Harry, his name is actually Henry, isn't it? Then you got the same Henry. No idea. Lots of people get called I don't know why, if you're posh. Anyway, that's what they did.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Well your name's Steve, but you're actually a dick.

SPEAKER_05 4:58

I hope the listener is already typing away furiously at their keyboard to unrob or mentionspod at gmail.com, not only to complain about the use of the language, but to defend me, as I'm sure they are. Anyways, right, this is the Kroll family we're talking about here. You're still there, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Hello, still there, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 5:19

They couldn't travel in the open because Russia, of which Belarus was part, was full of anti-Jewish sentiment and even massacres. So these people uh were Jewish. I'll take that. That was good. So their journey saw them trek through remote fields across rivers and sneak into villages. So this is at a time when Russia was carrying out what's called pogroms. Pogrums. Pogroms, which was the systematic seeking out and slaying of Jewish people. So they decided we're not hanging around here, waiting for this. So that's not at all a pleasant thing, really. So that's what was going on in that area at that time. So of course the Krell family thought I should cocoa.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

They're probably thinking, we better get out of air, Bow. We're we're out of air sunshine. Yeah, well, our toes is one.

SPEAKER_05 6:10

They were thinking, Barn is already in US estates.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Yeah, let's go and see him. Or they said, let's go see him.

SPEAKER_05 6:17

Because they weren't allowed to travel through open areas, they didn't want to stand out too much. What they did, they trepped through remote fields, rode across rivers, and snuck into villages where friendly people gave them shelter for the night. The family eventually arrived in Hamburg, which is in New G that's in New Germany.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Yeah. Where they made the after the name the the food from the beef burger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:45

Hamburger.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:47

The hot dog or the pizza?

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Hamburger. Idiot.

SPEAKER_05 6:51

Hambur oh yeah, of course. The family arrived in Hamburg. We've already discussed this if you were paying attention.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:57

On a Friday morning and stayed for Shabbat, which is Saturday. Holy day. Shabbat. Shabbat. It's their holiday holiday. And on Sunday morning, June the fourteenth, eighteen ninety-six, so it was still in the year eighteen ninety-six, they boarded the boat SS Patria. Patria. Patria. That'd be even better. Yeah, and that's pronounced property.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

That's more posted, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 7:21

It's pronounced properly now. Thank you for that. Neil.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

You're welcome. You're welcome, Stevie.

SPEAKER_05 7:26

For the voyage, they were crammed into steerage with no natural light or fresh air. Now steerage is your lowest of your lowest tickets.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

It's not the where the steering word is in.

SPEAKER_05 7:41

No, no, that's on the bridge.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 7:43

They don't let them steer the boat. Your lowest of your lowest tickets aren't a free ride to come on and steer the boat. That's not how they sell the tickets, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Okay, fair enough. That's perhaps why I got chucked out when I was on the cruising.

SPEAKER_05 7:56

Probably. They said you're in steerage and you thought, cheers, thank you. Pass me that hat. I'll be needing that. That's what you said. So for the voyage they were crammed into steerage with no natural light or fresh air, and shared the tiny room with another family who took the top bunk. As for the crolls, they took the lower bunk. So there's the mum and the three boys, all on this lower bunk bed. And above them there's a family of an unknown size, but they are a family. All on the one c or on one bunk bed as well. And they survived on a diet of herring and potatoes. Because in steerage you didn't get food or anything either.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

You just had to catch what you could catch out the side of the boat.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

Yeah, I I think potatoes are quite rare at sea.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Never heard of a sea potato. No, what do they look like? Well, I I quite often go to Tesco's and sea potato.

SPEAKER_05 8:57

They eventually arrived in the US of States during afternoon of Friday, June the nineteenth, eighteen ninety-six.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

So it was a long journey then, but not too bad. Not too bad. Friday to Friday.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Friday to Friday, but you're crammed into this tiny little room with another family, no washing facilities, all you're eating is herring and potatoes, which must be boiling on top. Well, I was going to say that, see, because no matter how desperate they were to get out, they managed to avoid Northampton and went straight to the USA.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:38

Do you think the um SS Patria went to Northampton for its first embarkment and people thought, Well, I'm still staying. If this turns around and takes me home, I'm I'm doing that.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:50

Rather than this. In the the River Nen, as they call it, and the rest of the world says Neen, 'cause they can't even talk properly. There they were. They avoided Northampton, give that a swerve, stayed on their herring and potatoes, and ended up in the USA on Friday, June 19th, 1896, in Hoboken, New Jersey. Okay. Now who's the most famous person ever to come out of Hoboken, New Jersey?

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Barack Obama.

SPEAKER_05 10:25

No.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Oh. Elton John. Stevie Wonder.

SPEAKER_05 10:30

The answer is Fly me to the moon. Let me swing among the stars.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Sorry, is that supposed to be in tune? Yeah, Frank Sinatra.

SPEAKER_05 10:40

Frank Sinatra. He came from Hoboken.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Did he?

SPEAKER_05 10:44

Yeah. I think the the town was named after a homeless person called Kenneth, who was Hoboken.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Right.

SPEAKER_05 10:51

And that's where the name came from.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

That's fair enough, isn't it? It's nice to name a town after him.

SPEAKER_05 10:56

Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. But from Hoboken, from there, they were transported by ferry to Ellis Island and a reunion with Barney.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Uh Barnet.

SPEAKER_05 11:08

Barnet.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

So this is Simon Sam, Harold Henry, and Charlie. And Charlie.

unknown 11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:15

And Ethel. And Barney, who turned out not to be a big purple dinosaur, which could have been quite disappointing for the younger children.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

But he he was a genuine person. Barney Kroll sold coal. Coal Kroll. Kroll coal.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Kroll coal.

SPEAKER_05 11:32

Kroll coal in the winter and he sold ice in the summer.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Mm-hmm. It's clever he did it that way round.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

If we did it well, he probably had to test it. A B testing, they called it in marketing, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah, they do, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:46

I don't know whether in summer he walked round the streets of uh New York shouting ice ice baby at people.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Could have done.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Stop. Collaborate and listen.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

Ice is here with a brand new invention. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 12:02

That's it. Something's gonna hold me tightly.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Someone like that, anyway. Carry on.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

Do you need to readjust?

SPEAKER_02 12:09

No. I did it earlier.

SPEAKER_05 12:11

Oh, you're still okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:13

Okay. So with Kol Kroll, or Col Kroll Cole, and his Ice Ice Baby Business, he was able to afford a two-room apartment on the third floor of a building in Cherry Street on the lower east side of Manhattan.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Nice. Nice place, that.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

Nice place. I've never been to Cherry Street.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

No. Nice bit of American pie.

SPEAKER_05 12:33

This was the first time the family had lived in a place with stairs or even wooden floors.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 12:39

Because before they were on a single story dirt floor little hovel, I suppose we would call it as. Barney and Ethel didn't hang about there because their daughter, Etta, was born in 1897.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Yeah. Or did they call her Dave?

SPEAKER_05 12:55

No, their daughter Etta.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah. Or did they rename her Dave?

SPEAKER_05 12:58

Oh, see, you say, Oh, you are a CAD. Yes. Um Etta was born in 1897, and then Lottie in 1899. So they just got in there, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

They were like rabbits. However, the family was struck by tragedy when Etta died after falling down the stairs, they were so proud of, and she was around four years old.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

They didn't have stairgates then.

SPEAKER_05 13:25

It's not very good. They didn't have stairgates then, and she's the one you chose to belittle. So I hope you feel bad now.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Um no.

SPEAKER_05 13:33

Okay. The remaining children grew up to be respected citizens of New York.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

New York.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

New York. Which I I believe is no longer a village by this point. It was actually a burgeoning city. Okay. Um New York New York, however you say it. Yeah. And on the twenty-sixth of December nineteen fifteen, the twenty-four-year-old Charlie, who was Charles.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:00

Charlie Charles. This is on Boxing Day nineteen fifteen, listener. Which gives it a bit of a Christmas bent. Twenty-four-year-old Charlie married Beatrice Lifshitz, who was twenty-three.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Sorry. Lifchit.

SPEAKER_05 14:19

I left a little pause there because I knew that would make you laugh because you're very immature. Beatrice Lifchitz.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Sorry, but if you got that word in your name, you would want to get married and get it out of the way, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_05 14:31

Lifchitz, would you?

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah. Or Beatrice.

SPEAKER_05 14:34

Which one is it you you find amusing?

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Um I would say well Beatrice is okay. There's lots of Beatrice down, then hello every Beatrice that's listening. Thank you for doing so. But if you've got someone with the name of Lifchit, then Yeah, come on.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

If our listener is called Beatrice, Lif Shitz, they have well turned off by now. So we're moving on now through the years. And Charlie, you may recall, was the one who got married and was the little boy, the littlest of the little boys who came over. Charlie owned a successful business as a printer on 24th Street near the headquarters of many toy companies. Among his major customers were toy wholesalers and board game makers, as well as Playthings magazine, which may have been something Ann Summers nowadays, isn't it? I've got to say that may have been something different altogether, mightn't it? Funny, one of those early battery-operated toys.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

Yes, with ears and stuff.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Now Charlie and B, as she liked to be known, shared a long life. Yes. Oh yeah, we we were good friends. Okay. Cho Charlie and B shared a long life together and were blessed by the arrival of two sons. Bernard Kroll, Bernard Kroll, Bernie Kroll, on the first of May nineteen eighteen. And Frederick Kroll, whose name was changed again, and fr he was called Fred.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Right.

SPEAKER_05 16:03

So that's that's easy to follow, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 16:04

That's fair enough. The word Jason, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 16:07

No. It's Frederick Kroll Fred on the 7th of June 1921. Okay. So what's that, please, between them?

SPEAKER_02 16:16

That's two b boys, you said.

SPEAKER_05 16:17

Two boys, but three years in between the two boys. And when the boys grew up, they worked alongside their father and arranged Charlie. Well, then you're keeping up with this.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yeah. Trying to.

SPEAKER_05 16:29

Yeah. Their father, Charlie. And this arrangement was only broken by the onset of the Second World War, which is rather inconvenient.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

And upset upset a lot of people's plans around that time.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:41

Now Fred served in the US Army Signal Corps in Hawaii.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Didn't say very well, didn't he?

SPEAKER_05 16:48

And why do you say that, please?

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Well, so it happened in Hawaii, didn't it? Didn't give much signals out, did they?

SPEAKER_05 16:54

And what was that, please? Stephen, come on. Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor. Well, Pearl Harbor really brought the Americans into the war, didn't it? So he wouldn't have had to serve in the Second World War in Hawaii until after Pearl Harbor, would it?

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Well that's perhaps why they brought him in, because no one signalled the pretty planes coming in, did they?

SPEAKER_05 17:14

Well, exactly. So they got uh got him on there, didn't they, on Fred? And his mates in the Hawaiian ship. Yeah, you need to look out for that. And actually from there, they took a lot of the signals and relayed a lot of the signals out to the US across the world, US troops. So he was doing quite an important job there, although not front facing, obviously. But Bernard, Bernard, or Bernie, he joined the Third Armoured Division, working all his way up to first lieutenant or lieutenant, as we would say, because we can speak properly. Yeah, not like what they can. But sadly, on the 22nd of January 1945. So this is getting towards the end. Right near the end. Right near the end now. Bernard, Bernard Burney, was killed in action at the Battle of the Bulge. What do you know about the Battle of the Bulge, please, Neil?

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Uh it was an attack with tanks.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

Yes, a battle yes, where the battle of tanks, wasn't it? Where the Allied troops tried to push through German front, didn't they?

SPEAKER_02 18:21

And pushed them back.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

Why was it called the Battle of the Bulge?

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Because they pushed them back and made them go into like a we were in a sort of like bubble shape as we pushed them back and made a bulge in their in their line.

SPEAKER_05 18:35

Yes, if you were to imagine the front as a physical line drawn on a map, then it it would have had a bulge in it.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 18:43

So yes, well done. You know quite a lot about this, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Thank you. I'm pretty good on bulges.

SPEAKER_05 18:48

You are, obviously. So poor old Bernard was was killed there in the Battle of the Bulge, which was Germany's last great offensive on the Western Front and the largest engagement ever fought by the US Army. So it's a bit of a bit of a deal, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:06

Bernard died in Belgium just three days before the end of that battle.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:12

Less than four months later, Germany surrendered to Allied forces.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

If any of the new.

SPEAKER_05 19:20

If only yeah, I mean that's terrible, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:22

And the sad thing is, as well, there'd have been thousands, tens of thousands of people killed in that four months.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:31

German forces as well that were going to surrender in four months' time. Terrible, isn't it, really? What a waste. What a waste. Charlie B. and Fred were devastated, as you would be, I think.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

We would be, yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 19:46

You would be. Oh Bernie Bernard Bernard. In nineteen forty seven, at the age of fifty-six, Charlie decided to sell his business to one of his major customers. And take early retirement. This chap was called Jack Pressman.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Never heard of him.

SPEAKER_05 20:05

Of course you have.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Pressman Toy Corporation. That's all I said, I haven't never heard of them.

SPEAKER_05 20:12

Well, Jack Pressman had grown up working in his father's variety store in Harlem, selling school supplies, candies, sporting goods. Yeah. Basketballs, it could be, couldn't it?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:24

Globes, trotters, and toys.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:27

Which sparked his interest in the toy industry. Still not familiar?

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Nope.

SPEAKER_05 20:32

In nineteen twenty-two he founded J Pressman Co., which made and sold all sorts of crafts, games and activities.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Still no.

SPEAKER_05 20:45

As early as nineteen thirty-seven, Pressman began seeing the value of licensing popular characters and matching them with new or existing products. Okay. So for example, he had some crayon sets, as you would do being a toy manufacturer and retailer in nineteen thirty-seven. And he slapped Snow White, the Disney Snow White on there. Why did he do that? Having well, he didn't slap Snow White. He just slapped the image of Snow White having licensed it from Disney onto his crayon pants.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

He didn't just walk up to Snow. And he's probably out, but these days you can't do things like that. No, you couldn't just walk up to Snow White and punch her out, could you? I'm going to Disney, although they're all gonna walk up to Snow White and slap her.

SPEAKER_05 21:33

He also sold Snow White cutout dolls in nineteen thirty eight. And little little orphan Annie bubble pipes in nineteen thirty-seven. Okay. He was also one of the pioneers of using injection moulding machines to produce plastic pats.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Why would he put pie in his ears?

SPEAKER_05 21:54

I see where you're coming from there. That's another one of your your witty little remarks, you tinker.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

Yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

He was one of the pioneers of using injection moulding machines to produce plastic parts. Pressman was known as a man of impeccable taste and worldly knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Well, it's nicer, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 22:13

Bit like myself. He was an astute businessman. Oh, sorry about that. You okay there?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah, I just jugged on both.

SPEAKER_05 22:24

He was an astute businessman, loyal, honest, caring, and sharp. So whether that meant he could cut paper.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Oh yeah, could do. Using his thumb. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:36

He was also a great teacher and mentored many legendary toy professionals, amongst them one Fred Kroll. As part of the sale to Jack Pressman, Fred, who was a natural born salesman, went to work for Jack Pressman. In 1948, he married Betty Gloria Kahn, whom he'd met in October the year before on a blind date at Coney Island, which was set up by a mutual friend. At the time, Fred was dating Gladys Sallas.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Gladys Sallas.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

Gladys Sallas, she she rhymed, and she was the niece of famous US comedian George Burns.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

I've heard of him.

SPEAKER_05 23:20

George Burns, I think he died when he was about 3006, and he used to smoke a big fat cigar.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah, he used to suck on a large Cuban. Of course he did that offstage.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

So, yes, there he was, right? He was engaged to or dating Gladys Sallas. I've I've bumped up his marital status there. He was dating Gladys Sallas, niece of famous US comedian George Burns, and then he was introduced to Betty Gloria Khan by a mutual friend in 1948. Two weeks later, Fred introduced Betty to his parents as the girl I'm going to marry. He knew straight away. He was smitten.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

He did. He was smitten, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_05 24:00

He was smitten. After their wedding, did hang about there, Fred and Betty moved to eight two oh one Fourth Avenue in Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Yeah, I know it quite well.

SPEAKER_05 24:12

Now Brooklyn is part of you New York, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Yes, it's one of the boroughs.

SPEAKER_05 24:17

It's one of your boroughs of New York. Along with Staten Island, Queens, Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx. Is that it? Is there any more? Something like that. Yeah, I can't think of any more. Neighbour. So this is one of their neighbours, okay. A neighbour remembered that the couple were very good to her family, and said Fred always had toys ready for our children. They were both very giving people. What a nice couple. However, in nineteen fifty six, after just ten years at the the Pressment Toy Corporation.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:54

Don't I say just ten years, it's quite a long time to stay with an employer. But in those days, I suppose there was jobs for life and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

That's right, not the bags.

SPEAKER_05 25:02

So Fred left to start his own business.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 25:08

Which he rather catchily called Fred Kroll Associates.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

So Fred was Charlie's grandson, am I right? No. Fred was Charlie's son.

SPEAKER_05 25:17

Yes. He was Barney's grandson.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

That's it. Yeah. I'm there now.

SPEAKER_05 25:22

Barney and Ethel left.

unknown 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:27

I mean Charlie was a little boy, five years old, and they left. Fred is his son. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah, I'm there now.

SPEAKER_05 25:35

So in 1956, after ten years, Fred stepped up his own business, Fred Carl Associates, and he and Betty moved out of the city to a grander house upstate in New Rochelle.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

New Rochelle.

SPEAKER_05 25:48

New Rochelle.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

So he's doing alright, isn't he, Fred? He's doing alright, he's doing out for himself.

SPEAKER_05 25:53

He's going up in the world.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

He is, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:56

Because he could afford to leave his job and then afford his own business and still move house to a bigger place upstate out of the city. Now, while representing Kona Brothers, or Kona Bros, so you want to say that, a maker of craft and preschool toys, Fred created a now classic game. At the start of this podcast listener, you may recall me saying that we're talking about the zenith, the apex and the pinnacle of human endeavour and human entertainment. This game isn't it. But it is a very, very famous game that he invented.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Right.

SPEAKER_05 26:37

Okay. So in the America, in the United States, it was called Trouble. Okay. And today, Trouble is marketed under Hasbro's Milton Bradley banner. So it's still in production today when he came up with this idea in the nineteen fifties.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

In the UK, the game is known as something else and is famous for its pop-matic dice. What's the name of the game in the UK, please?

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Problematic dice. Hmm. Well, there's only one. Yahtzee.

SPEAKER_05 27:13

Yahtzee.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:14

Does it have a problematic dice now?

SPEAKER_02 27:16

No, I'm joking. Frustration.

SPEAKER_05 27:18

Oh, that's frustrating. You led me along there. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

I did.

SPEAKER_05 27:22

Frustration. It's a game he invented with his problematic dice. Trouble in the US of States. Frustration in the United of Kingdoms.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yes, I understand that.

SPEAKER_05 27:33

Yeah. By the mid-1970s, so we're progressing along even further still here.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Yeah, it's doing well, isn't he?

SPEAKER_05 27:40

Fred Kroll Associates have begun licensing designs and items made by Agatsuma of Tokyo and other overseas toy companies.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

So what he was taking them and and licensing them to sell in his United States and etc. So what happened next is subject to legend and contradiction, but it led to the birth of the universal game that transcends culture and language. Stimulating intellectual challenge that improves critical thinking and problem-solving skills. Some say that on a work visit to Japan in the seventies, Fred Kroll discovered an exciting game that was being made by the Agatsuma Company. Instantly recognising its appeal, he attained the global licensing rights and later passed them on to Hasbro for a fee, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Yeah, of course he had to give it to him.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

He's not a fool. He's a businessman, this fella.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 28:41

Originally Hasbro sold it under their name, but eventually switched it to their Milton Bradley band, or even Milton Bradley brand.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

I was telling you, the Milton Bradley brand, band bland band, whatever it's go back in. It's good, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:56

You know, the Milton Brad.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Well it's going to change the name, couldn't he? That's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_05 29:00

MB Games.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Yeah. Ooh, I've heard of them.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

Thank you. A little bit of recognition. Well, the Milton and Bradley brands were the same ones who did frustration for him and that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

So I've heard of MB Games, you suggested that. Didn't put the two and two together, did I?

SPEAKER_05 29:16

You didn't put Milton, Bradley and MB together, no? Nope. MB Games, I hope you got that listener. The company would introduce the game to United States in nineteen seventy-eight. But what actually happened was that Fred published the initial idea for the game way back in nineteen sixty seven. In nineteen seventy-seven, while in Japan, he pitched and sold the game to Agatsuma Company in Tokyo.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

So he invented the game then?

SPEAKER_05 29:52

He invented this game and then sold it to the Agatsuma Company in Tokyo. Again, sold it for a fee because there's nobody's call.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, he's not for all, is he?

SPEAKER_05 30:03

The game became the game became an absolute smash hit in Japan.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Did it?

SPEAKER_05 30:08

And so in 1978, Fred purchased the global licensing rights back from Agatsuma, who he'd sold the original concept to.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

He took the licensing rights and then sold that concept back to Hasbro, who switched it to the Milton Bradley brand. MB. MB Games.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 30:32

Just in time for Christmas nineteen seventy-eight, the game was a massive success in America. Which was no small feat at the time. And I'll tell you for why if you're interested.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

No. Yeah, they'll tell me because I'm sure the listeners will be interested.

SPEAKER_05 30:47

The listener. Don't pluralise what we might not have, please, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Oh yeah, sorry, yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_05 30:52

Yes. Hello, listener. Hope you're still with us and you're staying with this because it's it's a convoluted story to get there. Other toys you'd find on the shelves at Christmas 1978, Neil. If you remember that back far. That back far. If you remember that far back, Neil, hello Neil. Other toys you could find on the shelves that year included the first wave of new fangled electronic toys like Merlin from Parker Brothers. No, that was a bit later, that was the early eighties.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 31:24

Merlin, do you remember Merlin? Simon from MB.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Yeah, remember Simon, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

Play School's Alfie. No, that's not one of the ones I've got here. Stop shouting out random electronic games, please, and let me get through this.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 31:39

So we've got Merlin from Parker Brothers, one of the first electronic toys to hit the shelves. Simon from Milton Bradley, PlaySchool's Alfie. Yeah. And Texas Instruments, Legendary, Speak and Spell. Ooh. So it had to compete against all those newfangled electronic games.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:00

This game of of Fred's. And then it ran into a juggernaut of a toy line that launched that year that was based on a very popular film or movie of the time. Would you like to guess what that juggernaut of a games line was, please?

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Neil, hello, Neil. Hello, Stevie. Well, um back in the seventies, very juggernaughty type thing. It's got to be. It's got to be Star Wars.

SPEAKER_05 32:28

It has got to be Star Wars. Well done, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Thank you. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 32:33

But Fred's family-friendly game more than held its own. And remember, of course, you've got all the other things that kids liked around that time as well, such as your barbies.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:43

And your roller skates.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

And skateboards.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

And your bicycles and your skateboards.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

The red hand gang used to have skateboards.

SPEAKER_05 32:56

Do you used to do that thing in swimming at school after swimming? People used to go around. Do you want to join the red hand gang?

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:03

Why? What's that? Slap. You have a big red hand on your back or your front. Yes, very immature, of course.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 33:10

Almost as immature as flicking wet towns.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 33:13

Which we never engaged in.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

No.

SPEAKER_05 33:16

No. But yeah, so Fred there's Fred's family game. It's holding its own. You can imagine this, can't you?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Yes, I can, yes.

SPEAKER_05 33:23

Fred's Frustration by a Milton Bradley brand, who I managed to get that out, is is still on the shelves as well. In 1978, an article for a publication called The Star Telegram. Do you get that? Is that something that you still? Joe Thomson, a manager of a department store, said it's one of those games that no one seems to have in stock. I don't think anyone was expecting the demand. They didn't think it would take off as big as it did, he said. So we've now reached a stage in our little podcast where Neil Hello, Neil, you're still there.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

TV.

SPEAKER_05 33:59

You're still there. Neil and the listener might like to have a little think, a little pause and a little think here. Because I'm going to ask you what was this game that Frank Frank What was that's rewinding the tape. I am going to ask you what was this game that Frank Kroll had gifted the world?

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Family friendly. Family friendly. Family friendly. 1978. First licensed in Japan, then took back to your American. US of A State Connect 4.

SPEAKER_05 34:41

Well, do you know what, Neil? That is a very, very good guess. And you're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 34:48

What about you, listener? What's that your shouting, listener? Monopoly? No, that was well before this, you fool, listener.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Carry on, Neil. Is there anything else you'd like to do? Um other one, stretch arm strong.

SPEAKER_05 34:59

Yeah, strictly speaking, that's not a game.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Um, fair enough. Um, let me think. Kaplunk.

SPEAKER_05 35:07

Well, that's another good guess, Neil. But let's remember that the initial premise Pardon? There's nothing and again, your mother might be listening to this Neil, go and wash your mouth out.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 35:18

You m you might remember at the beginning of this podcast we spoke about the zenith, the pinnacle, the peak of all human endeavour. And it was rolled up into this game. Now, until this time, chess was seen as being the peak and intellectual intellectual zenith. I'm using the word zenith again because I have to. It was the intellectual zenith of all games until Fred Kroll's game hit the shelves. So you'd like to have one more guess.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

One more guess. Twister.

SPEAKER_05 35:54

No. I thought you say, listener, trivial pursuit. Well, that's a more sensible guess. But again, you're all wrong. The game was called Hungry, Hungry Hippos.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

The pinnacle of human endeavour. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Hungry. Hungry Hippos. It's a game of intellect. Intellect. There's not much intellect to push a button. It's a game of strategy. It's a game it hasn't just endured over the years. It has thrived, Neil. From its initial popularity in the United States, it was exported all around the world. In fact, since 2015, an annual Hungry Hungry Hippose World Championship has been held at the Indiana Convention Centre.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Was that for the three people that bought it?

SPEAKER_05 36:42

It sold millions. This this game made Hasbro and Milton Bradley. I don't know what what your boy Fred sold it for, but I imagine Hasbro and Milton Bradley, or MB Games, have made a lot more money on the back of this than he did.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Hungry Hippos.

SPEAKER_05 36:59

Hungry, Hungry Hippos. At the World of Winter Festival in Grand Rapids, Michigan, which is again over there in the United States, there is a version of the game where participants play the roles of the hippos themselves. And another question for you here, Neil. The Guinness World Because I'm asking it. The Guinness World Record for the fastest time to clear a game of hungry hungry hippos by a team of four, so one on each hippo, is held by a Chinese team that achieved the clearance of the entire game in how long?

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Seven seconds.

SPEAKER_05 37:38

Lower.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Seven seconds.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

Ha ha ha ha Lower, lower, lower, my love. Lower?

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Uh four seconds.

SPEAKER_05 37:50

Off the post. Four point eight three three seconds.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

And that's supposed to be a fantastic achievement, is it?

SPEAKER_05 37:57

It's a world record at the time of our recording. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Hungry Hippos. Hungry Hippos. Pinnacle of human endeavour.

SPEAKER_05 38:07

Yeah. Fred Kroll gave the world hungry hungry hippos. Did you know that the four hippos have names? No. The purple hippo, your favourite, was called Lizzie. The orange hippo was called Henry. The green hippo was called Homer. And the yellow hippo was called Harry. I didn't know why they couldn't come up with a female name that began with an H rather than just Lizzie.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Or Henrietta or Helen.

SPEAKER_05 38:36

Over time, oh here we go. Over time Lizzie was replaced by Happy Yeah. Who wasn't purple anymore but had become pink. Probably probably happy because they were tickled pink.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:49

And then in 2009, the hippo's names and colours were updated.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Right.

SPEAKER_05 38:57

No doubt workshop by some prick with a marketing degree and a ponytail. Here we go, you ready for this? So the colours were changed.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Yeah. To more neutral pastel colours.

SPEAKER_05 39:07

Before, originally we had purple, orange, green, and yellow, then we had pink, orange, green, and yellow.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:14

Now we've got blue, yellow, green, and red.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Right.

SPEAKER_05 39:18

The blue hippo, as well as known heal, because this is the one you insist on playing now, is called sweetie potamus.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

Right. I know, they had to work. So I I'm the one that's fingering sweetie potamus.

SPEAKER_05 39:34

Yes. You had to workshop this. The yellow one is called bottomless potamus. Okay. The red one is called pickypotamus, and the green one is called veggie potamus.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Vegie.

SPEAKER_05 39:50

The green one is called vegipotamus.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 39:54

So you've got sweet hippotamus, bottomless potamus, veggipotamus, pickypotamus.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:01

And some grown up had to sit in a room with other people and got paid to workshop those names.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 40:12

Exactly. But what Hungry Hungry Hippo shows us is that an innovative toy doesn't need to change much. Because other than the names and the colours, it hasn't changed at all since Fred's initial invention. If you shoved a kid from 1978 into a time machine and introduced them to the game today, they would instantly recognise it and know what to do. Which I think is fair enough, isn't it? You're not more enthralled.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

I'm still gobsmacked by uh the pinnacle of human innovatation and being hungry hungry hippos.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Name something better.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Uh landing on the moon.

SPEAKER_05 40:52

You can't, can you? You can't.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Landing on the moon.

SPEAKER_05 40:56

If that happened, there were conspiracy theories. There's no conspiracy theories about hungry hungry hippos.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Dear dear.

SPEAKER_05 41:05

The invention of a car. That's polluted the world, Neil.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

So hungry hungry hippos is the pinnacle.

SPEAKER_05 41:13

Oh, there was the wheel.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:16

There is the the fire. We'll give chess some credit. I mean chess lasted a long, long time before it was not off its perch by Hungry Hungry Hippos. Electricity, probably the ability to sail the oceans. Yeah. But none of those are there. Imagine if you had the ability to sail the oceans, and you could do like Francis Drake and circumnavigate the globe, how much better that journey would have been with Hungry Hungry Hippos to pass the time. So you can't you can't, Neil. So we've got our kid in our time machine, didn't we? We shoved him in there, we introduced him to the modern day and the game of Hungry Hungry Hippos, now he's wandering about thinking how the hell does he get home aware of his parents? So sorry if you are that little boy. Straightforward play and the thriller of competition of Kept the Hippos Relevant and Love to this day, told ya. As for good old Fred Kroll, he made a penny or two out of trouble, and even more out of Hungry Hungry Hippos. He and Betty moved down to Florida where Fred was known as a philanthropist. Do you know what a philanthropist is? It's not someone who collects stamps.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

I don't know, what was it? What is it?

SPEAKER_05 42:26

Philanthropist.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 42:29

It's two people, one called Philip and one called Anne, who are very, very drunk.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 42:36

Or it could also be a person who is very generous and has plenty of wealth and uses that wealth to better the world around him or her. Fred and Betty moved down to Florida where he was a philanthropist and he spearheaded an annual drive to provide toys for underprivileged children through various local organizations.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Nice.

SPEAKER_05 42:57

As well as groups in Guatemala, Jamaica, Haiti, Turkey, and Russia. Where of course his grandparents had skedadel from.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 43:09

He was also a founding board member of the Alzheimer's Community Care and helped subsidize an adult daycare centre in Boynton Beach that is named in honour of his wife Betty, who Fred supported through her Outzimer's.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 43:27

As they got older there.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:29

In all, Fred spent sixty-five years working in the toy industry. That's a lifetime, isn't it? That is a proper lifetime. The final years he was head of Uncle Freddy's Fun Factory, Inc. Okay. Which sounds like something that was written on the door, you wouldn't send you your kids in, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Yes, exactly, yes.

SPEAKER_05 43:49

But it manufactured and licensed updated versions of classic toys such as wire puzzles, magnetic games, kazoos, wooden versions of checkers and chess and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Well checkers, Steve is what we call drafts.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

We do. We do call it drafts in this country.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:08

It's played on a similar board to your chess.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 44:11

Despite a six year fight against cancer, Fred continued to work hard, attending toy fairs and taking the occasional buying and selling trips to Hong Kong and Australia. He also wrote a regular column for the toy business website.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Yeah, I quite often come across things like that.

SPEAKER_05 44:29

You filthy pig. Fred died on August 2nd, 2003, from cancer when he was 82. He was survived by Betty and their two adult children, Bud and Shelley. Bless him.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:42

But there he was. He was quite an innovator, was Fred.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Yeah, he made a game. Two. Two games, sorry.

SPEAKER_05 44:50

Which are still in production.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Unstanded frustration.

SPEAKER_05 44:56

Now you may have picked up on my use throughout of the double hungry.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

I did, yes. I thought it was an echo.

SPEAKER_05 45:03

Hungry hungry hippos. Uh no, it's because in America originally, you see, where they had it, it was called Hungry Hungry Hippos. But over here we just called I don't know why. It was just a singular hungry hippo. So hungry, hungry hippos and frustration and Fred Kroll. That was the story. Little lead in to Christmas, I think, because it could have Christmas element in there when we spoke about Christmas changing. Ching, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Just putting some bit of Christmasy bit in there. No, it was me, Stephen.

SPEAKER_05 45:36

Oh, that's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

I thought he was coming.

SPEAKER_05 45:39

I thought Santa was on his way. I thought Santa was on his way there. So yes, there we are, children and listener. A little bit of an insight into Christmas 1978. A little bit of an insight into the creation of two of still the most popular games that you can purchase for family entertainment that are out there.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

With your hard earned money hungry hippos and not I know, a mortgage.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

Or anything silly like that. Well, thank you, listener, once again, for joining us for another episode of Ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching ching.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Honourable mentions.

SPEAKER_05 46:17

Can you do it in a style of a hungry hippo?

SPEAKER_01 46:20

What bungry hippoes or oh oh.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

Oh, that's very good. That's a hungry hippo. Honorable mentions there, especially. So we'll see you next week when it will be our special once a year Christmas episode, dear listener.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Exciting.

SPEAKER_05 46:42

It is exciting. We can barely wait. And we will see you then on Honorable Mentor. Hungry, hungry, hungry boy.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

If you want to win the game, you gotta take it today.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Hi, I'm Sweetie Pottermas. I'm Neil's favorite Hungry Hungry Hippo. Apparently, thank you for paying attention to me. After listening to Honorable Mentions, I know how much Steve and Neil appreciate it. Please remember to like, share, subscribe, and leave a five-star review. And if you want to get in touch, you can do so on social media or honorable mentions at gmail.com. Honorable Mentions is researched by Stephen Webb and it's an Uncover Brothers production. And the theme was written and performed by Pepe and the bandits. Please give them a listen wherever you stream your music. Right? That's that. Now listen, man, you haven't got any of those little plastic balls on you, have you? I just need a few I can pay you back later. Come on, man, I've got the shakes going on over here. I just need one. Please.