Sweet Caroline: The Last Kennedy

Caroline Kennedy is the last surviving child of President John F. Kennedy and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. Often described as the most famous woman you know the least about, Caroline's life is a story of resilience, diplomacy, and the weight of a monumental heritage.

​Follow her journey from being the celebrated "First Child" of the White House to her career as the US Ambassador to Japan and Australia. We explore the immense trauma of the JFK assassination and the death of her uncle, Bobby Kennedy, and the cultural shift of her mother’s marriage to Aristotle Onassis.

​Plus, we uncover the true story of hidden inspiration for one of the world's favorite sing-along hits. Join us for an intimate look at the Kennedy family history through the lens of the woman who carries the legacy forward.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hello listener, it's me, your least favourite one from Honourable Mentions. How would you like to win a competition? I bet you would, you cheeky little monkey. Within this episode we have included a deliberate mistake. If you can spot the deliberate mistake, let us know where it is on Facebook at honourable mentions pod or Instagram at honourable mentions pod, or you can email us at honourable mentionspod at gmail.com or even on Spotify or wherever you are listening to this, you can message us. The first person to tell us exactly where our deliberate mistake is and what that deliberate mistake is will get a shout out on a future episode. How exciting is that, listener? Please let us know and let's get on with this week's new episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Honourable Metro. Hello, Neil.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

Hello, Stephen.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Hello, listener. Oh, quite I presume you are fine, listener, and you are doing very well today. How are you, Neil?

SPEAKER_04 1:23

I'm tickety-boo, thank you very much, Steve. I'm very good.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Tickety-boo and tippity top.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

Yes, tip top and tippity top, top of the top.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

You know our last episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

We talked about a a woman.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

And that's only the second time we've done that in all of the honourable mentions. And this is episode twelve of Honourable Mentions.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

So I thought we should cover another female.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

In what? In Honourable Mentions.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

So we're going to look at another life of a lady. A lady? If you can imagine a lady.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

I can imagine a lady.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Have you ever seen one?

SPEAKER_04 2:07

I'm married to one.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yeah?

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Best way to go. If that's your the way your float your boat, of course, other people might decide otherwise, and that's entirely up to them. There's no judgment here.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

But we're going to talk about a lady and in an honourable mentions first we're going to talk about someone who's very much still alive and well. Ooh. You're right, they had to have a bit of a turn.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

Yeah, just sat on something, it was quite nice.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

So this person is very much alive and well, and she is a lady. So there's some clues there for you already, Neil. Does that narrow it down at all?

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Yes, I've I've got an idea who it is.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Who is that, please?

SPEAKER_04 2:50

I ain't got a clue.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

It's Elton John.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Elton John.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

No. What'd you say that for?

SPEAKER_04 2:56

No, you said it.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

I didn't. I think you'll find. I said Caroline.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Oh, we probably did then, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Caroline was born on November the twenty-seventh, nineteen fifty-seven at New York Hospital.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

Really?

SPEAKER_02 3:11

She was the daughter of the US Senator from Massachusetts. Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

We know a song about that.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

We do know a song about that, and we covered Massachusetts, dear listener. You may recall in our episode about the Mary Celeste, which I think was episode four. I don't know, it's all the same, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 3:31

On Honourable Mentions. Of course it's not all the same on. Bon de beau motion.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Because we like to give you something new every episode, listener. Because we love you.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

Yeah. Little tip bits.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

A year before Caroline's birth, her parents had a stillborn daughter called Arabella. That's sad, isn't it? She later had a younger brother who was born two days before her third birthday in nineteen sixty.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

Oh. So she was okay, I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

So she was born in she was born in nineteen fifty-seven.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Helen.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Caroline.

SPEAKER_06 4:08

Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yeah, that that's one of your big clues. Okay. Another brother, Patrick, died two days after his premature birth in nineteen sixty three. That's quite a sad little family. Although they've got two healthy children, but they've had their own share of tragedy.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Yes. Yes, they have, haven't they?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Will that tragedy continue or will it lighten?

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Well let's see, shall we? Let's clean. I'm I'm waiting with bated breath.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

I went fishing and swallowed a load of muggets by mistake. I'd go to A and E and I sat waiting with bated breath. Okay. For the first three years, count them. The first three years of her life, Caroline lived with her parents in Georgetown, Washington, District of Columbia. Or DC.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

District of Columbia, is that what it stands for?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

DC does, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

I didn't know of it.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Or Detective Comics. But I think it was. In the sounds of Washington. I think it's Washington, District of Columbia, DC, not Washington Detective Comics.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

That's what I thought it was. Never mind.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Never mind. However, after three years of living in Georgetown, Washington Detective Comics, her father won the 1960 presidential election. And so she spent the remainder of her early childhood years in the White House.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

What's her father, John F. Kennedy?

SPEAKER_02 5:44

The daughter of the youngest ever president and the most iconic first lady of all time.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

John Franklin Kennedy.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

That's what you're going with, is it? I think so. As a small child, Caroline received numerous gifts from dignitaries, including a puppy from the Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Oh, I thought you said a puppy as a distinctive guest was a puppy. That bought her a gift.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

No.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

Weird.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

As a small child, Caroline received numerous gifts from dignitaries, comma. Including oh I don't have to read out the punctuation.

SPEAKER_06 6:21

Oh, that'd help.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

You'd be getting a punch in your tuation. Carry on. As a small child, Caroline received numerous gifts from dignitaries, including a puppy from Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, and a pony from Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Oh. What's the p stand for, please?

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Um Bovril.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Now remember that pony. Because it's important. And as the Americans will say, we're gonna circle back to it later on, okay? So you're with all this so far?

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Considering she was got a puppy in a pony. She's got a puppy in a pony, but she missed out at a parakeet. Which would have been another pea.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Or some punts.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Or a porpoise.

unknown 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

Or a pork pie.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Or a por you can't really have a pet pork pie.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

I have. Have you?

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

What's it called?

SPEAKER_04 7:18

In the French Rangers.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

No, I can't call him Paul. Paul the pork pie? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah. Has it got a little face on it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Yeah?

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Oh that's that's quite charming. You've got a little French.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

I've got my fur on his head, he's got the little sort.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah, okay. So our Caroline, right? Yeah. Considering she was just a preschool toddler, she even had a short lived comic strip created about her, and the famous British pirate radio station, Radio Caroline, was named in her honour.

SPEAKER_06 8:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

This girl was the closest thing to Princess Diana before Princess Diana, I believe.

SPEAKER_06 8:18

Of her day.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Of her day. As a small girl, she was described as being a trifle. Oh sorry, as a small girl, she was described as being a trifle remote and a bit shy. Oh. I was gonna say does she have sponge fingers? So young Caroline, she's three years old, remarkably unspoilt, despite having the world's attention on her, and her own puppy and her own pony, and her father being the youngest president in history of the US of States. Her parental grandmother, this is Caroline's parental grandmother, said Caroline's too young to realise all these luxuries. She probably thinks it's natural for children to go off in their own airplanes. Yeah. But she's with her cousins and some of them dance and swim better than she does. They do not allow her to take special precedence.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

But Dad's a special precedent, isn't he? Oh, I thought he did there. So he did.

SPEAKER_06 9:16

Yeah. That was good. Hello.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Hello.

SPEAKER_06 9:19

It was good.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

That's the talent I have.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Hello, Neil. Alright. You still there? No. Oh, he's gone. So there was Caroline, right? Her privileged life was not to be without tragedy.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Well, steps weren't around back then, were they?

SPEAKER_02 9:34

No, but it was originally, of course, the Bee Gees.

SPEAKER_04 9:37

Yeah. So that she used to sing that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

I don't think the Bee Gees recorded it until the seventies.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

So they must have she perhaps wrote it then.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

This this was back in their travelling troubadour days at the Bee Gees when they were going house to house. Her father, the President of the United States of America, and I'm I'm gonna read this out now because this um if this is a shock to you or spoilers for our listener.

unknown 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Caroline's previous life was not to be without tragedy, as her father, the president of the United States of America, was assassinated in Dallas on November the twenty second, nineteen sixty-three, when Caroline was just five years old.

SPEAKER_06 10:20

That's not nice.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

It's not nice, is it? I'm sorry if that has come as a shock to you. And I'll say to the listener spoilers, her father was, as Neil said, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. And he was JFK, President of the United States of America, and he was shot allegedly by Lee Harvey Oswald. But that remains one of the conspiracy theories, which we won't go into. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I think most of them are absolute bulls, but that is one. I think there's more to it than we'll ever know.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

It's got some leg room, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

The children's nanny, a lady named Maud Shaw, took carrot Maud Shaw. Maud Shaw, not Maud, but Maud Shaw. Maud Shaw.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

Yes, that's what I said. Maud Shaw. You said Maud. I didn't.

SPEAKER_06 11:15

Prove it.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Caroline was just five years old. The the children's nanny, a lady named Maud Shaw, took Caroline and her brother, John Jr. from the White House to the home of their maternal grandmother, a lady called Janet Bouvier Arkincloss.

SPEAKER_04 11:33

Wow. Good name. Lovely.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

It insisted that Nanny Shaw be the one to tell them about her father's assassination.

SPEAKER_06 11:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

So there she goes, takes them over there, doesn't she think? I'll I'll take them out of the way, I'll keep them away because this is all kicking off around here. Yeah, and then goes to my grandmother, who already, of course, knows what's going on, because it'd been national, international, worldwide news. Um, says, tell you what, Nanny Shaw, Maud, Shaw.

unknown 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Tell her my dad's been shot with you.

SPEAKER_06 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

You know, you know that hat you bought for your dad. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

I don't think he's going to be needing that.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

It's got old in it.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

That evening, Caroline and John Jr. returned to the White House, and while Caroline was tucked up in bed, Shaw broke the news to her, Maude Shaw. Oh, she was asleep.

SPEAKER_04 12:27

That was a bit of a get out, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Just tucked her up in bed. Sweet dreams. By the way, your dad's dead. What was that? What'd you say? I said, No, nothing. I said, night. Yeah. Don't have nightmares, sweet dreams. So do you think poor old Caroline was sort of sort of left there staring at the ceiling, totally traumatised. Yeah. She just say well I thought what she said. Yeah. On December the 6th, two weeks after the assassination.

SPEAKER_06 12:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Because he was still dead at this point. Yeah. Jackie, that's their mother, of course, Caroline and John Jr. moved out of the White House and returned to Georgetown. But their new home quickly became a tourist attraction.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Oh, yeah, it was it Disneyland.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

And the family left the following year. It wasn't Disneyland, or no. Well that's I can see why you said that, because you're incredibly stupid. But no, it was more of a tourist attraction, pardon.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

You're not what?

SPEAKER_04 13:27

No, I'm not the hot, no, the window's open, it's quite nice.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Oh good. As long as you're not hot, that's fine.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Yeah. When I say tourist attraction, of course, I mean in a morbid fascination kind of way. Not in as it's got a log frame. The family moved out the following year and later moved to a penthouse apartment at 1040 1040 Fifth Avenue on the Upper East Side. Of New York. Of New York. Yep. So of course Lyndon B. Johnson then became the president of the United States of America.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Mr. Bovrell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Mr. Bovrell. And his legacy was that he signed the act that disbanded the Jim Crow laws, which is what it is we spoke about in our last episode, listener.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Yes, it was. Yes, that's right, Stephen. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

In 1967, a ten-year-old Caroline christened a US Navy aircraft carrier in the name of her late father. I know that was her idea, and they all expected it a USS Kill Machine or something.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

She was suddenly turned up Jemima Jet Pants or something.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Yeah, and she suddenly turned up with USS John F. Kennedy. But that's what it was called. Over that summer, Jackie took the children on a six-week trip to Ireland. Nice. Where they met the Irish president and visited the Kennedy ancestral home, or even ancestral home, at Dunganstown.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

Dungstown.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Dunganstown.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Here on down to Dunganstown. That's not the wrong one, is it?

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Beagora Sauters. That's Dungenstown Sauters. That's my offensive and stereotypical Irish accent, which is probably now entire nation switching off, and I do apologize. At one stage, Caroline and John Jr. were surrounded by a great swarm of press photographers while playing in a pond. Jackie was horrified and terrif terraphoned. That's even worse. Jackie was horrified and telephoned Ireland's Department of External Affairs to demand that she and the children be left in peace. I should think they should be. Leave us in peace. As a result, further attempts by the press to photograph the family ended with arrests and the photographers being jailed. They weren't hanging about, were they?

SPEAKER_06 15:51

No.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

They were not hanging about. You take a photo, son, you're off you're off to the big house.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

Yeah. You're doing some bird.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

That's what they said, having a bit of porridge.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

As time went on, Caroline and John Jr.'s uncle, Robert F. Kennedy.

SPEAKER_06 16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Bobby. Yeah. Bobby Kennedy. Became a constant and reassuring presence in their lives, and they began to see him as a surrogate further. He was a nice man. But Bobby was himself shot dead in 1968. Well much luck are they? Not even much luck at all, that's lot. At which point Jackie announced I do like to delight the listener with my acting performances. But I'm afraid my female American is probably not what it should be. So I will read that.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

How's that?

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Oh, did you hear that? I think we've got someone on the line. Hello? No, it was me.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Was that you? Yeah. Oh you tricky trickster. Oh. Let's try that again. My American s my American mistress.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Let's try that again. Hello, Neil. Well, how do you do dear? It was you. Well I'd declare you. It was you as well. Okay, well I'll try and do my Jackie Kennedy then in my acting mode.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

Okay. You should have warmed up.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Right, so Bobby's just been shot dead in 1968, that's my motivation. At which point Jackie announces in a female American voice I hate this country, I despise America, and I don't want my children to live here no more. If they're killing Kennedy's, my kids are number one targets. I have two main targets. I want to get them out of this country.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

That was brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Do you think so?

SPEAKER_04 17:43

Yeah, that was so feminine, it was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

It was so feminine and American at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Do you think?

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Oh unbelievable, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Yeah, I think superb. I think so. Oh, someone's just throwing a bunch of flowers onto my desk. I'll take the applause. A few months later, she married Greek shipping tycoon Aristotle Anassis. What's got you there, Neil, please? You've never heard of Aristotle Anassis.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

No.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Until I've just said it just now.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

That's it. I've heard of Aristotle.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Aristotle the philosopher or Harold Aristotle?

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Yeah, I know it's something to do with poshtings, but yeah, I don't know who the other one was. The an Annatist, I assume she married him, that's why he became Jackionassis. So I've heard of that.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

You've heard of Jackionassis.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

But not Aristotle Anassis. And it's something to do with posh things, a lot of philosophers.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

Yes. They're all posh, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 18:44

He was an ancient Greek, we don't know whether he's posh or not. But this is not someone from your local pub called Harold Stottle. You're thinking of. This is Aristotle.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Oh right. No, we all we'd have called him Harry, but he was Harold.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah, Haristottle. Well Harry? Is a bugger for the bottle. Should we carry it? What's it doing? Aristotle or Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle. That's your Monty Python philosopher's song.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Okay. Leave it on that.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Okay. So we've got Jackie Kennedy becoming Jackie Anassis, and they've gone off to live on Scorpios, the private Greek island of Aristotle Anasses. Ha ha ha, what a funny name. The next year, eleven year old Caroline attended the funeral of her grandfather, Joe Kennedy, and her cousin David asked about her feelings towards her stepfather, and she replied, I don't like him. Bum bum bum bum. Why not? She could have replied, Never heard of him. That's a funny name. Yes. But she didn't. She said, I don't like him.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

There you go, what did he do then? Was he what was he wrong in?

SPEAKER_02 20:00

I don't think so. He just wasn't her dad. He just wasn't her father. And I think she just sort of didn't like him because even though he's got his billions in cash and he's making her mother happy, she was an eleven year old girl missing her dad. And there was this bloat as a stepfather. And of course they had a surrogate stepfather that should have very much he was also shot.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Yeah, but he might he might come back in a shower.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

I was just gonna say that, and this was why he didn't.

SPEAKER_04 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

So yeah, so Bobby was shot. So yeah, eleven-year-old girl reacting like that is probably not a surprise, Neil, I would say.

SPEAKER_06 20:35

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

In nineteen seventy, Jackie sent a letter to her brother-in-law, Ted Kennedy, in which he wrote that Caroline had been without a godfather since Bobby died, and she would like Ted to assume the role. Nice. So Teddy Kennedy's another name, isn't it, that echoes down the pages. Ted began making regular trips from Washington, District of Columbia, or Detective Comics, we can't quite nail that one. To New York to see Caroline where she was now in school. A year later, Caroline, not quite fourteen, returned to the White House the first time since her father's assassination when she was invited by President Tricky Dicky Richard Nixon to view the official presidential portrait of her father.

SPEAKER_06 21:25

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Which has probably now been painted over and moved aside for big one of Donald Trump.

SPEAKER_04 21:30

Yeah, just painted just big orange splat.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

But it was later that same year that Caroline experienced an even more traumatic event.

SPEAKER_04 21:39

Oh, what's happened? Did Ted get shot?

SPEAKER_02 21:41

So this is 1975. Um no. We know Aristotle Anassis died in March of seventy-five, but it was later that year that Caroline was visiting London to complete a year-long art course at Sotheby's auction house. She was staying with Conservative MP Sir Hugh Fraser.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

Oh lovely.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

And his wife, Antonia.

SPEAKER_04 22:04

Antonia Fraser.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Yes. Here he goes, that's Lady Antonia Fraser.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

They live somewhere near Sloan Square.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Oh, it is. Just a few seconds before the three were about to leave for the day, an IRA bomb exploded under Sahew's car. The one they were about to travel in.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

Who left it then?

SPEAKER_02 22:31

The IR there we go. An IRA bomb exploded under Sahew's car.

SPEAKER_06 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

The one they're about to travel in.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Your question was?

SPEAKER_06 22:45

Yeah. Who left it? Who left it there?

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

And it's an IRA bomb.

SPEAKER_04 22:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

So who do you think left it there, please, Neil? Go.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

I don't know, but if um I suppose whoever bought the IRA bomb.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah. Or the IRA. The Irish Republican Army.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

Oh, I thought you could just buy a bomb, slight you know, could have an IRA bomb, please.

unknown 23:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

This is gonna be tough, isn't it? Whatever the cause of the slight delay, it saved their lives.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

I think it went back just to check out a poo.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Probably, mate, shortly flushed. Are you ready, Antonia? It smells rather agricultural in there. Shut up, Hugh, it'll flush in a minute. I've just got it by the throat. It'll go down. Caroline and the Frasers were shaken but not physically wounded.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

Okay, they're shaken but not stirred.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

In this explosion by the IRA bomb. However, a neighbour called Professor Gordon Hamilton Fairly.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

Oh lovely, yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Was passing by walking his dog and was instantly blown to smithereens.

SPEAKER_06 23:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

So that is already quite a life, isn't it? And Caroline had not even left her teens.

SPEAKER_04 24:05

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

So she might have.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

She's had a bit of a traumatic life growing up, hasn't she, apart from the puppy. What happened to the puppy and the pony plate?

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Well, we're gonna be circling back to the pony deal. I've talked about this.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Yes, okay. Alright. Calm down. You calm down.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

You calm down.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

You should.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yeah, I think you should go in on about your. Don't know what the IRA bomb is. We're back now to Caroline leaving her teens. She worked as a photographer's assistant at the 1976 Winter Olympics in Innsbruck, Austria. Lovely. And I think you'll find that was the very Olympics where I won the Conker's gold.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

Was it? What, when you were six?

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Around that time. Down Ski Conker's. I won that I won the gold medal in that.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

Oh, I never knew that.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

There you go. As an intern at the New York Daily News, on her first day she sat alone for two hours before other employees had said hello to her, allegedly because everyone was too scared.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

Well it could have been like she's like that person for the murder she wrote every time she turned up, someone got killed. Someone's gonna get shot.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Is that a book depository we're driving past? I think we'll then we'll leave that there. Yeah, so poor old Caroline, she worked as an assistant at the Winters Olympics in Innsbruck, and then she got a job on the New York Daily News.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

New York?

SPEAKER_02 25:25

New York Daily News. On her first day, she sat at home because no one wants to speak to her. And I was thinking though, that sounds very much like Princess Diana doesn't hit the people yet. Look who it is. We can't go and say hello to her.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Well it would do now, wouldn't they?

SPEAKER_02 25:37

In the wake of Elvis Presley's death that she had nothing to do with Elvis. She wasn't anywhere near him.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

In the wake of what? Elvis Dine. I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

He's still upset.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Stop it.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Yeah?

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Okay. Too young to die, too fat to live.

SPEAKER_06 25:57

Leave it.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

In the wake of Elvis Presley's death, she even wrote for Rolling Stone magazine about visiting him at Graceland. Mm-hmm. And had the article published. Yeah, that was really that's the epitome of trying to squeeze one out on the toilet, isn't it? For one last time. Poor odd Elvis.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

He definitely tried to pinch one off.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

He did try to pinch one off. That's what you get from eating fried. What was it?

SPEAKER_04 26:19

He was eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Peanut butter and jelly and deep fried. Hmm. Caroline really wanted to be a photojournalist.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

Was that just write about photos?

SPEAKER_02 26:31

No, that's being a journalist. Photojournalists are the people that get to war zones and places like that and photograph and record what's going on around them. So that's what she wanted to be. Fair enough. So she'd have liked. For example, the Elvis Presley passing. The photojournalist would be the person that goes to the funeral or Oh right, not take a picture of his poo. No, not take a picture of his poo in the pan. We'd go to outside the gates of Graceland where there was people mourning and a great gnashing of teeth and a wailing.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Yeah, well I thought they'd banned that. Well Wailing.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

No, I'm talking of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Much as you see nowadays, primarily in the Middle East, at funerals and things like that, or when there's been an atrocity.

SPEAKER_04 27:27

Okay. When like one direction split up.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Was that your experience?

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Okay. You alright? Should I continue or do you want the moment?

SPEAKER_04 27:36

No, it's okay. This is quite a hard one, this one for me, but yeah, we'll get there, carry on.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah, that's what Elvis said. That was his last word. Anyway. Caroline really wanted to be a photojournalist. We've said this about 75 times now. But soon realised she could never make her living observing other people because they're all too busy watching her. Because that's the level of celebrity what she had.

SPEAKER_06 27:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

In 1980, she earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in fine arts from Harvard and later attended Columbia Law School, earning a doctorate in 1988 and passing the New York State Bar exam the following year. So she wasn't just the daughter of JFK and Jackie Kennedy.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

She was she got there her own merit, didn't she?

SPEAKER_02 28:21

She got some brains on her as well, hasn't she?

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Yeah, she can pour a point. She can Is that well is that what you're gonna have with Well, yeah, she said about she passed her bar exam.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Oh, I see. Well, Neil, I know that's a flippant remark from you, because your very own stepson has passed the bar himself.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

Yes, he has, yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

And you know that he is a barrister.

SPEAKER_04 28:44

It was a flippant remark, I was just trying to make light of it for the entertainment and for the listener.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Well, you know that he's passed the bar and is now a barrister, and you know that's got nothing to do with pulling pints and everything to do with making coffees. So, honestly, between her studies she worked at Manhattan's Metropolitan Museum of Art. Yeah. I've been there. Clang Well, she met her husband to be designer Edwin Slosburg.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Alright. You weren't a clothes designer, was he a fashion designer?

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Uh I'd imagine he was a designer of stuff. 'Cause there's no way someone would be wearing what you're wearing.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

I'm wearing a Slosburg.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Oh he is a designer of stuff, having still being alive, of course. Edwin Esfierra, Charlie Hotel, Lima, Oscar, Sierra Sierra, Bravo, Echo, Romeo, Golf.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

Schlossberg.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Schlossberg.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

Sounds like a that sounds like a milkshake.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Probably that's what he designed, you don't know. You might have him to thank for your McFlurry.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Caroline and her brother John.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Oh sorry, you're back to the McFlurry, are you? Yeah. Lightning reactions. Caroline and Terrible cough. It is, you want to get that sorted. Yeah. Caroline and her brother John Jr. were very close throughout their lives, even more so after the death of their mother in 1994. And this was Jackie Anassis, as she was then. Jackie Kennedy and Jackie Bouvier previously. Jackie O. Jackie O. So Caroline was left utterly heartbroken when John Jr. was killed in a plane crash in nineteen ninety nine.

SPEAKER_04 30:34

Oh bloody wrap up.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Which left Caroline is the only survivor of President Kennedy's immediate family. Caroline elected not to have a public memorial service for her beloved brother. Instead his remains were cremated, his ashes scattered into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Martha's Vineyard, where he had met his ultimate fate. So Caroline, as you've as you've rightly observed, Neil, Caroline's life had been subject to more than its fair share of tragedy. But we can jump ahead now to some happier memories. How'd you like that?

SPEAKER_04 31:05

That'd be nice. That'd be lovely, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Early in the primary race for the 2008 presidential election, both Caroline and her uncle Ted endorsed a Democratic candidate by the name of Barack Obama.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

Oh right, yeah, no him.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

President Obama, as he became, later appointed Caroline as the United States Ambassador to Japan.

SPEAKER_06 31:30

Japan.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Eight years later, President Joe Biden, another president, appointed her as United States Ambassador to Australia. Australia? Good aye, mate. You might want to go back to one of our previous episodes there, listener. Yep. Grab yourself a bottle from the bolo.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Get your hand off my penis! This is the bloke who got me on the penis, people.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Today, Caroline is still involved on the fringes of US politics. In January 2025, she publicly spoke out against someone called Donald Trump and his nomination of her cousin, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. She labelled RFK a predator and stated his views and actions on vaccinations to be hypocritical and financially motivated. The letter was also posted on her son Jack's Instagram and was supported by other members of the Kennedy family.

SPEAKER_06 32:29

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

So RFK is obviously quite a popular character within his own family. Caroline Kennedy is a remarkable lady, but you might be asking yourself, Neil, why is she worthy of an honourable mention? And what happened to that pony?

SPEAKER_04 32:44

That is one well, I forgot about the pony, but yeah, and the other one was thinking to myself, yeah, what's where are we going with this? So yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Well, the pony that was gifted by then Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson, who became president Lyndon B. Johnson, was christened Macaroni by Caroline.

SPEAKER_06 33:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

And was often photographed riding around the White House grounds.

SPEAKER_06 33:10

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

All of course before her father was assassinated. I mean Caroline was just five. So any pictures of her riding Macaroni the pony around White House must have been taken before she was five. It follows logic, Neil.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Yes, yes, I can see I can see the logic there.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

It's just plain logic.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

I've got a song going through my head at the moment. Have you? Yeah. Went to town and so I then called it Macaroni, something like that, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Does this song have a tune? Nope. Okay. Just that was it? Keep in mind, Neil, keep in mind. Nevertheless, in 1969, when she was still eleven, about to turn twelve, a twenty-eight-year-old singer songwriter used a picture of Caroline and Macaroni for inspiration to follow up an earlier hit which was called Girl, You'll Be a Woman Soon.

SPEAKER_04 34:08

Oh, that was in Pulp Fiction.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Within just thirty minutes in a motel room in Memphis, Tennessee, where a lot of musical stuff goes down, he completed his song from beginning to end. Bear in mind, as I was said, Caroline was under the age of five here, and within this song, this young s twenty-eight year old singer songwriter wrote and you'll probably be able to guess the song here, but he wrote Hands, Touching Hands, Reaching Out, Touching Me, Touching You Boom Boom Boom I've got nothing. Sweet Caroline. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

That's got nothing to do with girl ding ding ding. You'll be a woman soon ding ding. Does it sound anything like it?

SPEAKER_02 35:03

No. No, no, no, right. I'm gonna have to get the glove puppets out again, aren't I? Right. In a hotel room. Yes. A twenty-eight-year-old singer songwriter used an old picture of Caroline and Macaroni for inspiration to follow up an earlier hit called Girl, You'll be a Woman Soon. So that was his prior hit, his previous hit, if you will. It wasn't the actual song that he wrote in 30 minutes in his Memphis, Tennessee hotel room that had Hands Touching Hands, reaching out, touching me, touching you. Bum bum bum. Sweet Caroline. A fact that Neil Diamond only shared when he finally met Caroline Kennedy in person at her 50th birthday party. So if you've ever been to Boston's Fenway Park and heard the Red Sox fans, or you've been to an England football or cricket match, or a title boxing belt, you'll have heard fangs singing Sweet Caroline. And all that. A song written by a twenty-eight-year-old man about a five-year-old girl.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Okay. Does that have a tune to it?

SPEAKER_02 36:18

No, no, quite famously it doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

I don't.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Have you ever tried the Neil Diamond smoothie? It's quite good for you. It's just got Swede Carrots Lime.

SPEAKER_06 36:36

Still got nothing.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

And that is the story of our first ever honourable mention for a living person. Living lady. Living leader. With a nice little twist at the end. So Caroline Kennedy, she's she's had a life, hasn't she?

SPEAKER_04 36:57

She has had a life. Wow, Krivens. Makes you wonder why he was writing a song about a five year old.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

He says he was inspired by the photograph.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

Alarm bells.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Exactly why it had to be, you know, touching hands, touching me, touching you.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Well, well, well, sweet curat lime.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Well there you go, the jig of me. That's another snippet of information, another nugget of of knowledge that I will take to my grave.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

So Neil Diamond used to be called Neil Cole.

unknown 37:29

No.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

But he came under a lot of pressure to change it.

SPEAKER_03 37:34

Hey!

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Everyone's a Belter listener. And they just thank you for joining us for another exciting episode of Honorable Mentions. Uh uh uh. Well, it's always a pleasure, listener. Thank you very much for joining us for yet another episode. We will be back with you and Hello Neil.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Honorable mention at another time and another place on the same bat channel.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Thank you very much, and bye.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

Honorable mentions.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

This is Walter Cronkite reporting for honorable mentions. We interrupt this podcast with some breaking news. It is my terrible duty to report that earlier today, about ten seconds ago, in fact, we reached the end of this episode. Please try and remain calm. I have received by wire the following statement direct from the Secretary General of the United Nations. It reads as follows, dear listener, thank you for listening to Honorable Mentions. Steve Neal and the whole world are indebted to you and your dedication, especially in the face of such ranking competencies. I am asking you to remain indoors and take some deep breaths. We have assurances that Honorable Mentions will be back next week. Do not panic. If you need further reassurance, you can follow the podcast on Facebook and Instagram. Or email honorable mentions pod at gmail.com. I can also offer further comfort in confirming that Honorable Mentions is an Uncover Brothers production, and each episode is researched by Stephen Webb. Pepe and the bandits are still very much on board having written and performed the theme to me. Well, it has been my solemn duty to report many incidents and historic moments, but I can't recall anything, anything of such a magnitude as this. Please be strong. You can listen to Pepe and the bandits wherever you stream your music, and maybe that will help us get through this difficult and challenging period. This is ultra trunk height for honorable mentions, and that's the way it is. Stay classy, listen.