How An Australian Machine Gunner Ended The Red Baron’s Reign

 Manfred von Richthofen’s red triplane skimmed the Somme, and a living legend closed in for another kill. But, down below, Sergeant Cedric Bassett Popkin on a Vickers machine gun is waiting for his moment. Once friendly aircraft had cleared his line of fire, Cedric squeezed his trigger and what happened next reshaped world history.

We chart Richthofen’s path from young cavalry cadet to becoming the Red Baron, Germany’s most feared flying ace and a potent symbol of wartime propaganda. You’ll hear the pivotal encounters, the April surge that cemented his reputation, and the head wound that shadowed his final year. From there we move groundward to the Australians braced along Morlancourt Ridge, where trajectories, medical findings, and rate-of-fire analysis converge on one name: Sergeant Cedric Bassett Popkin. His official statement, training, and position relative to the flight path make a tight forensic case for the fatal burst coming from his Vickers machine gun.

If you enjoy sharp storytelling, primary sources, and a myth-busting look at World War I, hit follow, share this with a history-loving friend, and leave a review. What detail changed your view of the Red Baron’s last flight? We want to hear it.

Email honourablementionspod@gmail.com 

Website

honourablementions.buzzsprout.com

Facebook

Honourable Mentions 

Instagram 

honourablementionspod

TikTok 

honourable.mentionspod

Transcript

Banter And Potato Preferences

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Honourable mentions. Hello, listener. I hope you're well. Welcome to another episode of your favouritist podcast in the world.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

It's only honourable mentions.

Introducing The Red Baron

SPEAKER_01 0:19

It's only honourable mentions, and it's only Hello, Neil! Hello. So what's your favourite type of potato? And I don't mean as in like the breed or whatever you called it of potato, do you quite a breed speech? I don't know. But what's your favourite method of consuming a potato?

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Uh dauphinois.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Do dauphin was?

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Most people would say chips.

unknown 0:44

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Or mash.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

Yeah, well I'm I'm I'm up there now. Celebrities got me.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

How do you think Manfred von Richthoven would have enjoyed a potato?

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Er I would have said it like he's boiled.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Who was Manfred von Richthoven?

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Um he was a German.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Very broad. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

I don't know about his shoulders, but he was he was a German.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

He was a German, and in what context would we be talking about Manfred von Richthoven, apart from his potato preference?

SPEAKER_04 1:15

I would say it's because of his pop career in the late sixties.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

His pop career in the late sixties.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Right. You might be thinking of a different Manfred von Richthoven to the one we're going to be discussing.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Oh, okay. I'll say there's Manfred who's a man, no him.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Manfred Mann's Earth Band and all that. Blinded by the light. Was it wrapped up like a douche in the veil of it? Because if it does, that's a bit awkward.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

Not really bothered, Steve, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Okay. Manfred von Richtover, Neil. If I said to you who was the number one flying ace of the First World War, and you may remember last week we spoke about the First World War when we covered Ernest Edward Thomas, the man who fired the first shot of the First World War. And if you want to go back and listen to that listener, I highly recommend it. Would you highly recommend it, Neil?

SPEAKER_04 2:09

Yes, I would highly recommend it. And I'd also recommend to follow it and share it and put a little review on, please.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

That's a very good idea, Neil.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Yeah, I know. Full of them.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Perhaps a listener would like to go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us at this one and we'll just fill time in for a little while.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

You can play with your fuzzy felts like you normally do, and I will um carry on making tinfall hats.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

And consuming your potatoes.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

And consuming my bluff and what?

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Who was the leading flying ace of the First World War?

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Um well there was a German fella, weren't they?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Oh Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Yeah, Red something or other. Red Baron.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

The Red Baron.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

The Red Baron. Was that him? The Red Baron. Yes. Yes. I'm in the old chateau, there's no pressure.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

The Red the Red Baron.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

The Red Baron, Neil.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

He wasn't he wasn't born to Mr. and Mrs. Barron, and they called him Red.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Didn't they? His name was Manfred von Richtenstaden, whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Oh, you're very close. You're very close at remembering things happened forty seconds ago. Manfred von Richtoe.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

There you go. Told you.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

That was his actual name.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

And Manfred von Richtofen was born into German nobility on May the second, eighteen ninety-two. Okay. He began his military training at just how old do you think?

SPEAKER_04 3:44

His military training with the Germans. I'd say they're starting quite young. Um two.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Two?

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Do you think so?

SPEAKER_04 3:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

I say, sir. The Jerry seemed to be flinging diminutive members of their aristocracy across our trenches, sir. Yeah. Think that's what happened. They got them in little catapults and just flung them over at the British trenches.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Oh, I think they're just talking about to shoot.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

So I've got this image now of a toddler with like a knife between its teeth that flung at the British trenches. Ah no, he was eleven.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Oh five then.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Eleven years old, and he went into the German army to complete his cavalry cadet training in nineteen eleven. Okay. So he was eleven when he started, so if he was born in eighteen ninety-two, that would be nineteen oh three, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_04 4:33

Yes, it would, yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And then by the time it reached nineteen eleven, so just gone ten past seven in the evening.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

He'd finished riding horses.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

He started his cavalry cadet training. However, and you may remember this from the last episode, listener, if you were paying attention there.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Heavy artillery and trench warfare quickly rendered the cavalry obsolete, and he was redeployed to a non-combat role, where he quickly became bored and decided he wanted to fly.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Well, cocaine, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Possibly. Let's have a look. In 1915, so quarter past seven, so it weren't there very long, about four minutes.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

He secured a transfer and started flight training in October. It turns out he wasn't some sort of adult cocaine addict. He actually wanted to take up the new fangled flight of the biplanes of that era, made of wood and paper and all things secure against machine gun fire.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

And they're called biplanes because they had two wings on either side, didn't they?

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Alright. One on top of the two. Nothing to do with their sexual preference.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Could have been.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

You never thought of that. I'll have to look that up later. I'll move it. So at quarter past seven, nineteen fifteen, he secured a transfer and started fight training, taking the liberty of mounting a machine gun on his albatross B-2 reconnaissance plane.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Oh, they were good, they were.

Kill Streak And Ruthless Reputation

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Essentially creating his own fighter. And it wasn't long before he shot down a French aircraft. He did well to shoot down a French aircraft before the French surrendered, though, didn't he?

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

He did well there. During one of his many exploits on November 23rd, 1916, he shot down and killed Major Lano L-A-N-O-E, George Hawker. Lano George Hawker. I doubt he was called Major Lano George Hawker. He was probably called Legion Meneer George Hawker.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Something along those lines.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

So they spoke for them, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

It was rather, yes. Who at the time was the best of all the British pilots, considered by the Germans to be very big game.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

He was top gun.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

His mouth was writing checks, his body he couldn't cash. With twenty kills in just the one month of April nineteen seventeen. Lichtoeven bought his war total to an unprecedented fifty-two.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

Fifty-two? Swine.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

He had become a fearless as well as a ruthless killer. And look at this, Neil. Even shooting Allied pilots trying to escape from their downed planes.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Oh, it's got to take him. Nah, that's that's a bit low, that is just dirty play.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Which was a change from his attitude earlier in the conflict when he sent a box of cigars to a British opponent who survived.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

See, that's nice, isn't it? It's gentleman there. Gentlemanlare warfare. Don't shoot him down with a down, do you?

SPEAKER_01 7:43

It'd be funny if they were like exploding cigars. Just sort of left him with a black face and blink. By this time, of course, the Allies were concentrating intently on going after him.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Yeah, let's get this bed in. Let's bloody his nose.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Then in 1917, he took a round that grazed and splintered his skull, which caused him to suffer regular and severe headaches for the rest of his days. By September of that year, he'd managed to recover enough to raise his kill count to sixty. Sixty. Six zero. So his headache wasn't that bad, was it? Yeah, it's putting on. Oh dear, I've got such a terrific headache, I can barely see straight, I can barely cope.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

And then That's because if he missed people. If he missed planes of, oh it's just I had a headache at the time.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

I don't think he was missing many people, was he? That was his problem, our problem. Not his problem. He also took to flying the distinctive blood red triple wing Fokker DR1, from which he took the nickname Echo Through Time.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

The Red Baron. The Red Baron and his Fokker. The Red Baron.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Yes. He's a beastly fellow.

The Final Pursuit Over The Somme

SPEAKER_01 9:09

It was a call to Britain and her allies. Here I am. Come and get me if you can.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

Yeah, that would stoke my fire. Bally Fritz. Yeah, Kohar would be out for him.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

On the morning of April the twenty-first, nineteen eighteen, so nearly twenty past seven, the Baron was hit while flying over the Morlandcore Ridge near the Somme River.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

Good.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

You may have heard of the Somme in relation to the First World War. An Australian held sector of the Allied lines. Some accounts having crashing to the ground, others say that while he was shot through the torso, he maintained enough control and presence of mind to land this plane before he died of his wounds. So he died of his wounds? He died of his wounds.

SPEAKER_04 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

He was just twenty-five years old and had a kill count of at least 80 Allied aircraft.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

It's no age, is it?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

I always think of people as being a lot older because the Red Baron, particularly Baron von Richthoven, is a name from the First World War that most people would know, I'd argue.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

I would argue as well. But I don't want to argue. I don't want to argue. I know, but you keep trying to bring these bloody trying to make arguments, but I'm not I'm not going there, Steve. I'm not arguing. Well I'm not going there, I'm not arguing either.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

So stop saying that I'm not arguing about you arguing.

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Yeah, but you're arguing this. Stop it.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

You stop it.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

You stop it.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

You stop it.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Who fingers? Yeah, we're going there. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

We've gone there. You can't take that back now.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

Yeah. Do you drop the P bomb? Certainly did. I got him there first.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Twenty-five years old, he was just a boy.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

Yeah, he was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

And yet, in history's terms, we think of him, we think of him being a man. Not not an old man, but yeah, like a this historic warrior or whatever you might want to call him. As with many wartime battles, there was no shortages of confusion. And so for years there was some uncertainty as to who actually fired the shot that took down the red burn.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

You don't upset that wouldn't you? But yeah, it was me. It was definitely me.

Who Fired The Fatal Shot

SPEAKER_01 11:28

People did. That was the confusion. Lots of people say, no, no, it was me. No, it wasn't, it was me. But this, Neil. Yeah. That was all preamble. That was all Yustarta. This is now the main course we're going to here. Because this is the story of the man who brought down cavalry captain Baron von Liktoven, known to history, as the Red Baron, the most feared flying ace of the First World War and the Allies' number one target. In the final few moments of his young life, Von Likethoven was pursuing a Sopworth camel piloted by Lieutenant Wilfrid May. He was a Canadian, and the distinctive triple winged Fokker was in turn being chased by another Canadian, Captain Roy Brown. Three planes flew over Moreland Core Ridge with the Baron also taking flat from an Australian machine gun detachment. Hot it was where below.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

That's the three planes gun over. Was it? Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

That was very good.

unknown 12:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Right a ta-ta. That's the guns. We should try and put that together.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

Yeah. Ready?

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Rat, ta tap tat. Right. Stroof, mate. Yeah. That really upputs it for the listener, I hope, listener.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Yeah, that puts him in the picture. It puts him there, isn't it? In that chair.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

At around ten forty-five AM, a Lick Tovan was hit by a bullet that passed diagonally from right to left through his chest. He also sustained wounds to his knees and abdomen. His red plane jolted for a moment, then recovered. Before it crashed in the Australian lines while flying very close to the ground. When Australian soldiers reached the plane, Lixhoven was still alive but died moments later.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Yeah, but they shot him.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Eyewitnesses reported that the Baron's last words were kaput.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Caput.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Kaput. And of course, Neil, because you are bilingual. In fact, you're not bilingual, you're multilingual.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

I am multilingual, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

And in fact, Neil, because you're multilingual, you be able to tell the listener what the kaput means.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

Caput means broken. Finished.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Finished. It does mean finished, yes. So this is what Baron von Victoven gasped immediately before he died.

unknown 13:57

Kaput.

SPEAKER_04 13:58

Okay. Yeah, it was alright. That's my acting.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

My motivation is I'm lying on the ground in my plane. The Australians are coming. I'm spitting blood. I'm dying here. And that's my motivation, okay?

SPEAKER_04 14:18

How was that? That was good. That was good. That was awful. That was that was yeah. Very good. Well done. Well done.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, listener.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

That's good coming your way, I think.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You can sit down now. I've got people throwing flowers at me and everything. Yeah, this is getting quite embarrassing. Calm down, everybody. We'll carry on with the story. It was Captain Roy Brown in his ruthless pursuit of the Red Baron who was given the credit.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

Was it?

SPEAKER_01 14:49

So he's the fella in the plane behind It was beyond the Fokker.

SPEAKER_04 14:53

I said Fokker.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

The Red Baron.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

The Redon.

Cedric Popkin’s Early Life

SPEAKER_01 14:57

However, medical examinations of the body revealed that Victor's death was caused by a low velocity long distance shot moving in an upward direction from the right and delivered by a ground-based weapon. It had to be somebody who knew how to handle their gun that'd have been around six hundred yards away in firing at Von Lichthoven's right side. Okay. So sit down, Roy Brown. It was at you, Sunshine.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

On the ground that morning was the 24th Australian Machine Gun Company, and one man was firing a Vickers machine gun loaded with the right calibre of bullet and from the right location.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

What happened to you the 23rd? Because it got to the 24th. What they just thought about, no, 22nd, they're rubbish, get rid of them. Let's try another lot now.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Well, not all of them.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

23rd.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Not all of them could have borrowed the Vickers machine gun either.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

No, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

So only one man was at that distance and had borrowed the Vickers machine gun.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Why did Vickers have machine guns? Because of unruly parishioners. And this is your continental, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Uh so perhaps if they had a burnt croissant for breakfast and they're in a bad mood.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

It's not like you're British when I can just give you a a a bit of a dirty look or a tut.

SPEAKER_05 16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

And that put you in your place. Yeah, this is your continentals. They're a bit more warm-blooded, aren't they? A bit more highly strong. So a machine gun is a necessity.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

Yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Whereas here you wouldn't get invited to the vicar's tea morning.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

And that would be devastating.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

It would be, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Cedric Bassett Popkin. Neil.

unknown 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Still there. Popkin, I love that's a nice name.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Cedric Bassett Popkin was born in Sydney, your Australia, on the twentieth of June 1890, to William Bassett, known to everyone as Dan for some reason, and Lillian Martha Popkin.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

By nineteen oh, parents had the same surname.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Well, she was Lillian Martha Gilbert. She took the name Popkin upon marriage.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Yeah, I'll choose Popkin over Gilbert.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

By 1904, the family was living in Grafton near Byron Bay and the Gold Coast.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

Very nice. Have you been there? Very nice.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Why's that, please?

SPEAKER_04 17:28

The Gold Coast.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

No. But I have been to Australia. Clang! And Sydney. Clang! And I've been to Botany Bay, but not Byron Bay.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Oh, okay. Clang! Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Cedric's two older sisters were looking after the family as their mother, Gladys, had died in 1902. Cedric, so that's about two about two minutes past seven in the evening there. Cedric, who was dark haired and of average height, took a job as a builder and later moved out to Brisbane, where he met and married a young lady named Nellie Ellen Bull on the tenth of March 1913, when he was but uh twenty-three. Twenty-three. He was twenty-three when he met young chaplain, young chap. Old Nelly. Well, young chap, but only two years short of the entire lifespan of Bannon von Liechthoven. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Yeah, too.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

The couple weren't settled in Brisbane for long, as they were soon on the move again, this time to one of your typical Australian kind of names, South Merwillenbar.

Training, AIF, And Western Front

SPEAKER_04 18:44

Mulwillenbar.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

In New South Wales. I've been to New South Wales. Where Cedric, although now a carpenter by trade, found work as a tobacconist, and the couple had two sons called Michael and Roland.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

There's only snow in Australia then.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Why would there be snow in Australia?

SPEAKER_04 19:04

If he's sliding down the slopes. You said he's a tobogganist.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

I said tobacconist.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Oh sorry.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Tobacco.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Oh okay. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, tobacco, like what it is, you put in your cigarettes.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Oh yeah, carry on.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

You can have chewing tobacco.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Ding!

SPEAKER_04 19:25

That sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Eventually, the family moved to Palm Woods in Queensland before the outbreak of World War One. On the 6th of May 1916, a month or so before his twenty-sixth birthday.

SPEAKER_05 19:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

So he's already outlived Manfred von Lichthoven.

SPEAKER_05 19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Cedric travelled back to Brisbane to enlist in the Australian Imperial Force. The AIF.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

Oh, do they have stormtrooper helmets?

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Cool picture now.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

The last episode, dear listener, you may recall we spoke about the BEF, the British Expeditionary Force. This is the Australian Imperial Force, the AIF.

SPEAKER_05 20:11

IOF.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

The AIF was the main Australian military force in World War One, formed in August 1914 to fight overseas as part of the broader British Empire effort.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

I think they did. He was given the rank of private and the regimental number 424. 424. And attached to Machine Gun Company 7, reinforcement 6. It's a lot of numbers to remember already, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

4245. The company embarked from Melbourne on the 20th of October 1916, heading out to Sierra Leone.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

That's French speaking, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Where they were transferred to a ship called the Ulysses for the board passage to England, arriving on the 20th of December.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

Okay. Near Christmas then.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Near Christmas. Leaving the warmth of early summer back in Australia via Sierra Leone in West Africa. Cedric and his mates were now whisked off to the Australian training camp at Perham Downs on Salisbury Plains, in the clutches of one of the coldest winters in British history. That must have been a shock to the old system, mustn't it?

SPEAKER_04 21:29

Yeah, how do they know?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

How do they know what?

SPEAKER_04 21:31

It was one of the coldest in British history.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Well, because you look back at history and think, was there anything around here that was a bit colder than this? And no, so therefore this is one of the coldest. They're not saying in all history, they're not saying going forwards there'll be nothing as cold as this, because they wouldn't know, would they? They haven't got that kind of meteorological science as we don't have now on hill.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Carry on.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

You're right now. Now that you were wondering about the camps. I suppose you may have been. The camps were large and self-contained, made up of rows and rows of corrugated iron huts with wooden floors.

SPEAKER_05 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Each hut took about thirty men and had electricity and heating. Bloody luxury. Yeah. They had it all, didn't they? They had shower blocks, dining halls, medical facilities, and recreation rooms. They even had vast areas of reconstructed trenches and tunnels, where recruits like Cedric were drilled in trench warfare techniques, including using bombs and grenades, firing Lewis light machine guns, dealing in with gas attacks, and constructing and repairing wire fences. So they were giving a right thorough going over what they were.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

They were, weren't they?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah. Those who required specific training for the barren hellish landscapes of no man's land were bust out for a day trip to Northampton.

Popkin’s Account Of The Shootdown

SPEAKER_04 22:57

Yeah. Well that'd be Yeah, that'd be as close as you can get to that sort of thing, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:03

If not worse.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Where can we send the men, sir? Well, it's purely devastation and barren landscapes and hell on earth.

SPEAKER_04 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

I've got just the place, son.

SPEAKER_05 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Stick them on a bus, follow me. The training was harsh, as we've already discussed. I mean, some of them went to Northampton. Pushing the men to their limits, as we've just discussed, some of them went to Northampton. And in April 1917, Cedric dropped the only blot on his military copybook when he was reprimanded for using insulting language to a non-commissioned officer while on active duty. Oh.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

What did he say? You stink of who? You crevis? You're a gid.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Stroof, you flaming great galar.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

That's Australian. That's a very potty mouth outburst in New Australia. Private Popkin was appointed acting corporal with the 24th Machine Gun Company on the 30th of August 1917. So Popkins up. He wasn't held back that long. He wasn't promoted because of his pottymouth outburst. He was promoted despite his pottymouth outburst. And from there he made his way to France with his unit on the 7th of September, just under a year after they'd set sail from Australia. The officers all stood up and said, Right, lads, who wants to come with us to virtual certain death in the trenches? Nobody moved, and they said, Or who wants to go back to Northampton? And everyone suddenly put their hand up and said, No, I'll I'll take the trenches, sir.

SPEAKER_05 24:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

He was based as you would. Anyone in their right mind. He was based at the machine gun corps depot in Camille, where he attended specialist machine gun training school. I don't know, it'd be interesting, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Interesting what that school was like. There should be a sitcom or something based on that.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

On the third of March nineteen eighteen, Cedric was promoted to training sergeant, and then in April to full sergeant, when one of his comrades was declared missing in action.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

Oh no. M I A. M I Disturbing.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Which all leads us to the twenty first of April nineteen eighteen at ten forty-five AM west of Vosasom.

SPEAKER_05 25:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

The day begun with a mist which was now clearing. Can you picture that? The propellers of Baron von Likhoven's strikingly red single seater triplane roared overhead with a crackle of gunfire. Now, for you listener at home, you've probably been able to picture this because of mine and Neil's rather emotional, I thought, reenactment of this very scene.

SPEAKER_05 25:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

He was twisting and turning in pursuit of a khaki coloured Sopworth camel heading in the west-northwest direction. A third plane, another Sopworth Camel, was chasing down the Baron.

SPEAKER_04 26:12

Oh. So three of them, like we said.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

The three planes flew over Moreland Corridge, and the Twenty Fourth Australian Machine Gun Company, with a detachment under the command of Sergeant Cedric Popkin, who was firing at Richthoven using the Vickers Machine Gun, as we've already discussed.

SPEAKER_05 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Other Australian machine gunners and riflemen also fired at the Baron. Sergeant Popkin's statement recorded in the AIF War Diary of the 24th Australian Machine Gun Company for the April 1918 reads as follows.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

You can do the acting bit, or you I could do the acting, but these are the very words of Cedric Popkin from 1918 being passed down the ages for us today.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

So he says, One of our airplanes was being engaged by a German aeroplane and was being driven down. They came from an easterly direction, and when within range of my gun were flying very low just above the treetop, I immediately got my gun into action and waited for our own plane to pass me as they were very close together. And there was a risk of hitting them both.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

This guy's a pro, you see, because that's what they were doing at machine gun schools.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Learning how not to shoot your own team. Yeah. Today's lesson, boy, is how not to shoot your own team.

SPEAKER_04 27:36

Yeah, it's to teach us the Americans.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Although they're always on the front line and we're way back while I was back drinking tea, according to some precedents.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

I'm quite satisfied that the plane was brought down as the result of fire from my gun.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

So putting a claim on it.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

So back off.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Many have claimed credit since that faithful day, and all have their detractors and supporters.

SPEAKER_05 28:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Captain Roy Brown, flying in pursuit of Von Vickshoven, of course, put his hat in the ring. Australian gunners with Lewis guns. A guy called Robert Bowie, B-U-I-E, and another fella called William John Snowy Evans, and of course Cedric Bassett Popkin. Popkin was an experienced anti-aircraft gunner. The volume of fire from the Vickers machine gun was far greater, at least 450 rounds per minute than the bolt action Lee Enfield rifles of up to 30 rounds per minute, if used by someone who really knows what they're doing. And Popkin was the only machine gunner known to have fired at Von Lichtoven from the right side and the right distance immediately before he crashed. It's now widely accepted that Cedric Popkin brought down the Red Baron. The studies have demonstrated that the locations that the other contenders could have fired from and the timing of the crash means that none could have inflicted the fatal wounds. So it looks like it's our friend Cedric, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_04 30:01

Yes, Mr. Popkin.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Or Poppers. Yeah. Not long after, on the nineteenth of June 1918, Sergeant Popkin was himself wounded in action, taking shrapnel to his right leg and rushed to the fourth Australian field ambulance.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

You get the first one, or go with this one, and then move on to the next one. We move on to the next one. Oh, there's a bed, we've got a bed.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Well, that could be a prophetic statement, Neil. Shall we continue with our story?

SPEAKER_04 30:31

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Oh, that's alright. So this Australian field ambulance had to find the right field first, and then find the ambulance that was in it. The following day, he was moved to the 47th casualty clearing station at Rosier. Rosier. And then on the 24th, he was moved again. This time to the third Australian General Hospital in the Somme area. Why'd they keep moving him around? Hopefully behind the lines, not like in no man's land or something. Yeah, why would they keep moving him around? That's why I said your statement earlier is a bit prophetic, wasn't it? Because they did, they kept moving him around. Despite treatment, Cedric's condition deteriorated. I wonder why.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

Wonder why.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

And he had to be evacuated to England. So on the 5th of July 1918, he was admitted to the Royal Victoria Hospital in Netley, Southampton, where his right leg was amputated.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

Have they still got it?

SPEAKER_01 31:31

So this was the 5th of July. He was injured on the 19th of June. And he ended up in Southampton on the 5th of July to have his leg cut off.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

Do they have a museum for them sort of things in these hospitals?

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Otford old legs.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

Old decomposed legs.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Yeah, this is Cedric Popkins.

Propaganda, Morale, And Legacy

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Yeah. I don't think so. Perhaps they could. Could have been a super soldier out of all the different parts. Yeah. Easy. He remained in hospital for two months before being discharged to the second auxiliary hospital, South Ork, on the third of September 1918. There he remained until January nineteen nineteen, when he was invalided back to Australia, arriving home on the seventh of March.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

Yeah. Long time, then.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

In nineteen sixty-four, four years before his own death, Cedric told the Brisbane Courier Mail, I am fairly certain it was my fire which caused the Baron to crash. He recalled that everyone was scrambling for souvenirs around the freshly crashed triplane. With one officer claiming the Baron's gold wristwatch, yeah, bet he did.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

Yeah, the officer. It turns off that was mine.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Cedric claimed a piece of fuselage, but said he was mainly interested in the£50 a month's leave everyone said he was going to get for shooting down the Red Baron. But he never did receive anything. It's about right, isn't it? But the officer got that as well.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

Yeah, but they did.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

He eventually lent the piece of laminated timber fuselage to someone in the William Bar who was running a war souvenir display. He never got it back. But his major regret was that he had not got the Baron's fur lined flying boots that he remembered as being particularly beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

What was it about German footwear in the First World War? Because in our last episode, listener, you may remember if you were listening. If not, go back and listen to that, then come back to this one. You'll find that our heroic friend Ernest Edward Thomas crawled into a German trench and was particularly taken with their footwear. Yeah. Which he then took back to his trench to distribute amongst his English chums.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

Hmm. Perhaps they cleaned them more often.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Perhaps it was just your typical German engineering.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

Yeah. I've been self-lacing boots.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Do you reckon that means somewhere in Mawillium Bar in Australia, there is a piece of the Red Baron.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

Red Baron's plane, I would think so. You'd like to think so, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

You'd like to think that that's there, or if it's put somewhere, someone stuck it away, someone had no idea what it was.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

But it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

And it's now in a barn or it got burnt on a fire. We just don't know. But I'd imagine that would be a very interesting museum exhibit.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

Yes, same with his leg.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yes, if they had kept his leg.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Perhaps they could have got his dying wish and put his leg into a particularly fine German flying ace boot. Baron Manfred von Richthofen, the Red Baron, you may recall, was the highest scoring ace of World War One and a massive and national celebrity and hero in Germany, I need to add there. Heavily promoted by the government's propaganda machine, his death was a significant blow to the German public and military morale, especially at a critical stage of the war. The German government had even considered asking him to retire due to fears of the negative impact his death would have. But he declined.

SPEAKER_04 35:22

Nine Yes. That many times?

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Nine times he declined.

SPEAKER_04 35:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

He was not just a successful fighter pilot, but a brilliant tactician, a charismatic commander, and an inspiring leader.

SPEAKER_04 35:41

Yeah. They'd lost a bit of their spunk.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Cedric did all that.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

For the Allied forces, von Richthoven's death was a tremendous psychological victory and a huge morale boost.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Hooray! Well done, Cedric. Or whoever it was.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Well done, Cedric's officers.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

The Red Baron had become a neo-mythical dreaded figure. The appearance of his bright red Fokker triplane meant certain death for an allied airman. His elimination was celebrated events signifying that even their greatest adversary was vulnerable.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

Yeah. Good.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Sergeant Cedric Popkins Carmis under pressure had removed the single most effective and feared pilot and squadron leader from the German air arm, immediately reducing the danger for Allied air crews.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

Yeah, but they're acting up in the skies again. Get their camels up in the air.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Von Richtoven was given a full military funeral with honours by the Australian unit that recovered his body, including wreaths, a firing party, and an honour guard.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

Nice. See? They didn't shoot them down.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

So even though he was their number one enemy and had killed quite a lot of their comrades. He was still a human being. He was still a human being, and they respected his skill at what he did.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

He was actually eventually he was recovered and taken back to Germany, where he was still very unwell. Uh they couldn't revive him, but he's now buried, he's now buried again with four military honours and in Germany somewhere. Yeah. Cedric Bassett Popkin died on the 26th of January 1968 at the age of 77 without any sort of national fanfare.

SPEAKER_04 37:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

He's buried in the Mount Thomson Memorial Gardens in Brisbane, Australia. Okay. The man who accelerated the end of the 1914-1918 war. So last week we had Ernest Edward Thomas, the man who fired the first shot of the First World War. Yeah. He didn't start it. It's not like he went over there going, come on then.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

Yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

He he fired the first shot of the First World War. And now we've moved on to Cedric Popkin, who although he didn't fire the last shot of the First World War, because we know by a very significant effort from him though, isn't it, to change it? Yes. I mean you may say, why are we celebrating the man who killed somebody? And yes, that is true, he did. And in fact, I'd take it he killed quite a lot more because it's war. What is it good for?

SPEAKER_04 38:31

Absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Say that again.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yes. But yeah, he accelerated the end of the war by taking out the German flying ace Baron von Olichthoven. I thought you shot him down. Crushing the he well, yes. A little known fact was before Van Richthoven could be buried, Popkin did take him out with flowers and a full meal, put him in a nice dress. And yes, as as was tradition at the time.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

He did kill a twenty-five-year-old, but that twenty-five-year-old was the number one threat to the British troops. His death led to a crushing demoralisation of Germany at the critical stage of the First World War, and with no doubt whatsoever helped to accelerate the end of that war.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

Yeah. That's good in it, Blessing.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

But of course he didn't fire the final shots of the First World War Neil because we know that they happened where?

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Right opposite side of the road to where Mr. Um what's his face, did it? Edward um last week, did it? Tom. Where he shot the first shot, the last shot was on the opposite side of the road.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Your memory's like a steel trap, isn't it? I'll tell you.

unknown 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

All over it.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Well, listener, thank you very much. That was the story of Cedric Popkin, the man who shot down the infamous Manfred von Lichchthoven, or Neil. The Dreadbedden. So if you'd like to join us again next week, dear listener, on Honourable Mentions. We've got rather a different type of episode coming your way next week, but we're not going to tell you more. You just have to tune in to find out what it is. But it's jolly exciting, isn't it, Neil?

SPEAKER_04 40:26

Yes, it is very exciting. It's a different one from us, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 40:29

It will be a different type of episode, but we're looking forward to it immensely on Honourable Mentions, please. So thank you, listener. Thank you for your time once again. We will be leaving you with a tally ho and a pip tip. Bye.