The Carpool Guys
The Carpool Guys Podcast is where three real Jewish dads- Asher Dworetsky, Jon Ackerman, and Dave "From Flatbush" Tannenbaum, buckle up for unfiltered conversations about fatherhood, marriage, midlife, and the beautiful chaos of raising a family in the Jewish community today.
These guys have made mistakes, learned lessons the hard way, and have just enough life experience to give out their not so expert advice. From career crossroads to screen time battles, from Shabbos table debates to parenting fails, from Israel and what it means to us as Jews to the everyday moments that make you laugh, cry, and question every decision you've ever made... The Carpool Guys go there.
Whether you're married or single, a parent or a kid who still needs one, navigating life or just trying to figure it all out... this is your podcast. Humor, heart, and meaning, every other week. No filter. No script. Just real talk from three guys who are very much still figuring it out too.
Buckle up. New episodes every other week on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts!
The Carpool Guys
Imposter Syndrome: The Struggle is real... but am I? & How long is too long for a What's App Voice Note?
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Imposter Syndrome: The Struggle is real... but am I?
Dave is off at Camp Kaylie helping with their intern program, which means Jon and Asher are flying solo tonight, and somehow still managing to fill nearly an hour with conversation, tangents, and a very important child in underwear watching fireworks from a car roof.
But before all that, Jon and Asher kick things off with a proper What Are We Thinking About segment. Asher just visited Camp Kaylie himself and cannot say enough about the staff, the Rabbeim, and the magical island they have built there. Shout out to Mommy Rachel, the first husband of Camp Kaylie, and Izzy, who not only cleaned Asher's car before he left for the summer but refused money for it and waited to open his brand new phone until after camp started. Meanwhile Jon spoke to a group of OU AI interns today, felt like the smartest person in the room for about four minutes, and then realized he was the oldest person in the room by approximately one generation.
Which brings us to the topic of the week: Imposter Syndrome. The guys dig into what it actually feels like to walk into a room and wonder whether you belong there, at work, at a Shabbos table, in a job interview, in your own career. Jon talks about the period in his professional life when he felt stuck at the bottom rung, and how learning to podcast, of all things, unlocked something in him that changed his trajectory. Asher opens up about taking on a new leadership role without his longtime mentor as a safety net, and what it felt like to suddenly be the person everyone else was looking to for answers.
There is also a real conversation about the difference between imposter syndrome and humility, why saying "I don't know" is actually a sign of confidence, the Dunning-Kruger curve, setting professional boundaries during long weekends, and the difference between being a team player and being a doormat.
Plus: the word "correct" as a conversational power grab, how long is too long for a WhatsApp voice note, the era of asking permission before calling someone, Camp Kaylie visiting day survival, the chain of yelling from How I Met Your Mother, root beer floats as a spiritual experience, the grand finale that nobody can identify, and one of Asher's children watching July 4th fireworks from the roof of a car in their underwear.
Big announcement: The Carpool Guys WhatsApp listener community is launching. Email carpoolguyspod@gmail.com to get in.
Also coming soon: Official Carpool Guys car magnets. Yes, really.
Question of the Week from Jon: What is your favorite part of the Fourth of July, and what is your least favorite?
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⏱️ Chapters with Timestamps
0:59 — What Are We Thinking About: Asher Visits Camp Kaylie
1:17 — Happy Birthday Izzy — Our Number One Listener
4:57 — The Word "Correct" as a Conversational Power Grab
8:26 — How Long Is Too Long for a WhatsApp Voice Note?
16:30 — Announcement: The Carpool Guys WhatsApp Listener Group Is Launching
18:39 — Jon Speaks to the OU AI Intern Program Today
22:19 — Topic of the Week: Imposter Syndrome, the Struggle Is Real
26:01 — Why Saying "I Don't Know" Is Actually a Sign of Confidence
28:43 — When Early Career Overconfidence Gets in the Way of Actually Learning
29:38 — Asher's Mentor Susan Heckler: It's the Conversation After the Conversation
31:00 — How Learning to Podcast Unlocked Something in Jon Professionally
38:00 — The Chain of Yelling From How I Met Your Mother and What It Has to Do With Work Culture
40:13 — You Never Know What's Going On in Someone's Life, Even as a Therapist
43:08 — Question of the Week Is Sponsored by Asher in Honor of Dave
50:30 — WhatsApp Group Launch: How to Join
Please rate and review The Carpool Guys!
You can email us at carpoolguyspod@gmail.com
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I am very much regretting telling you this story, by the way. Nobody else, nobody else who I who's listening, I regret it, but telling you the story I deeply regret. Hello, and welcome to the Carpool Guys Podcast, where three dads just trying their best to talk about life, work, family, and all the detours in between. We've made mistakes, lots of mistakes, but we've also learned a few things along the way. We don't have it all figured out, but that's never stopped us from sharing our two cents anyway. The Carpool Guys podcast is hosted by Asher Doretzky, John Ackerman, and Dave from Flatbush Tanenbaum. Buckle up, it's carpool time. Alright, we are back, the Carpool Guys, it's Ackerman, it's Doretzky. It is not Tannenbaum. Dave is not with us tonight.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Dave is uh off gallivanting in Camp Cayley. Uh he is helping out over there with their um pro their intern program, which is really amazing.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I really love everything about Cayley, but tell us what you're thinking about because I know, Asher, you got some thoughts on Camp Kaylee. So what's the case?
SPEAKER_02Well, I was just there and I loved it. I mean, I love Avnet also. That's where I work on a daily basis. But my boys are my older boys are there in Kaylee. Shout out to Izzy, by the way, whose birthday was over the weekend. Happy birthday, Izzy! Happy birthday to Izzy. And uh huge fan of the show. Before he went to camp, he insisted on listening to the raw audio of the podcast because he didn't want to miss even an episode. So, shout out to our number, probably our number one listener, I would imagine.
SPEAKER_00All right, yeah, number one fan, Izzy Jurassic. By the way, that was a good show. That was the Ellie Lee Boitz episode, right?
SPEAKER_02It was amazing. We got some amazing feedback. Uh Bar Hashem, it was really great. I think he had a good time, and um, we had a good time, but we had a great time in Cayley. It was they do such a beautiful job up there. Uh, my kids are learning, and I felt so much Hakar Satov. I even sponsored a day of learning up there in Camp Kaylee because I felt so much Hakar Satov to the staff, to the Rabbeim, uh, to L Brazil, and to Rabbi Rosenthal and Rabbi Sif and Rabbi and Rabbi Liebwitz and Rabbi Rosner and all the amazing people, Rabbi Kurtz. It's it's just incredible. The list goes on and on and on, and I'm obviously leaving out everybody, but they do such a beautiful job. And um, I I can't say enough. I just I sometimes I like I wish I could take a vacation and just be there on what Rabbi Sif calls the magical island of Camp Cayley.
SPEAKER_00It's amazing. My kids uh were in Cayley for multiple years. We love Camp Keyley. I'll even say um both of my uh my kids who went there had had food allergies, and the hoops that they jumped through to take care of my kids was amazing, it was incredible. Well, we also have uh resident expert camp mom Rachel Saknovitz, who is on Black. My gosh. Rachel is amazing. Shouts to Rachel. She took such can I tell you something?
SPEAKER_02I think we should call her mommy Rachel, to be fair. Mommy Rachel, to be fair.
SPEAKER_00Mommy. I'm not sure that I can call her mommy Rachel, but I will tell you this. She took such good care of my daughters, um, one of my kids who shall remain nameless, lest she be mortified for this. Not that that's like a deal breaker, because I've I've embarrassed her publicly before. That's why she would go out of her way, is it and make my kids grilled cheese all the time. She would make them food when they just were either stubborn or or no stubborn, I think that's what it was, about eating the camp food. Um, she took such good care of them. And always, by the way, her husband bringing up food every single Friday. Amazing. Amazing.
SPEAKER_02I like I go, I drop stuff off at their house, and he like he just brings it up. He's a superstar. Yeah. He is the uncle. West Hempstead. West Hempstead, the first the first husband of Camp Cayley. The first husband. Something like that. I don't know. Whatever it is. But really, we had a beautiful time, and they always do such a beautiful thing on uh I know I'm saying beautiful. John John gave me like a little bit of of uh crit critique earlier today about and now he's in my head about I say the word amazing and I say the word beautiful all the time. Now, to be fair, John, earlier this week we had a debate in the Avnet DRS office about people who say correct when you're talking and you're having a like a conversation and you make a brilliant point, like you know, in theoretical physics, the entire world is made of strings, and the other person goes correct, and you're like, I'm the brilliant one. Why do you need to supersede me with your correct? And then I proceeded to make fun of everybody in the office, and they're like, Oh, you're making us self-conscious, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Correct, I am. That is my goal in life, is to make you feel self-conscious.
SPEAKER_00Listen, in my defense, when when I have to sit and I I do not just like the live show with you and with Dave, and we go through the whole thing, and then I have to go through it like literally word by word on the edit, and then I listen to it again afterwards. I pick up all the little things. So I get to be a little bit picky.
SPEAKER_02That's fair. But notice I'm not saying correct. I'm legitimate, I'm validating your point. I'm saying you're right. You do all the hard work on the editing side, but I'm not taking credit and I'm not saying I am superior.
SPEAKER_00I'm just saying you are right. You can validate the point without saying I have graded your statement and I found it to be correct. So that was a big part of it.
SPEAKER_02People started talking about it. A few people made the point that when you're a teacher, which I also am, then you are, and many of the people in the room were is that that is like a default thing, is that you're trying to say, yes, that's a good point, that's correct, or whatever it is. So maybe teachers have a difficult time uh like slipping out of that mode, so they say correct, but I think more people say correct after you make a like the most brilliant point in the entire world. I think people do it. I want to put out a poll. We're gonna do this on YouTube. Do you think when you make a brilliant point and the other person says correct, does it irritate you as much as it irritates me? Or is it just that I'm just you know very sensitive to it because you know, I am a middle child, I'm as short as Jalen Brunson, you know, all these things that uh I have within myself and my own psyche. Or is it do you think that it's a legitimate way to have a conversation? Or do you think it makes the other person feel super?
SPEAKER_00Well, let me let me ask you on your point. Is it is it worse when somebody says like this, like you're you say something and then and they they're dying, they're like chomping at the bit to to jump in and they go like this. They're like c correct, but so so wait, so was it correct? Was it not correct? You they were so excited to say correct, they're like chomping at the bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I look, I I'm not of I I think everybody should be given the opportunity. Somebody called me the other uh today, they left actually a voice message for me. It was very it's an honor sometimes uh that somebody called me for advice, and I'm like, okay. And I was uh I was just listening to the person, and I was all I did was like reflect back, and I was like, it sounds like you did an amazing job. They they were put in a tough situation, they had to speak truth to power, they had to speak up, no one else wanted to do it, and they had to do it. And I said to the person, you you had a tough job ahead of you, and you did it. You put yourself out there, and it sounds like you did a great job. And the person was like, Wow, thank you for saying that. I think that's our job in life is to just boost people up instead of making ourselves feel like I'm stop it, stop with the correct time. You did it again. Sorry to all the people out there that I just burst their ear jumps, but it's like it it drives me crazy. It's it's like, why can't I have my point? Give me my chance.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, I agree with you. I agree with what you're saying. I'm not gonna say the C-word, I totally agree with what you're saying. Um, you know, it I love what you're saying about the message, but let me ask you have have we entered in sort of a new stage right now about um people leaving super long voice notes? I I'm getting these four-minute, five-minute long voice notes. They're podcasters at that point.
SPEAKER_02There's a okay, listen, they're not podcasts because we don't have John Ackermann. And we know that a podcast has to be edited by John Ackerman, LLC LLC. Um, no, but in reality, I think most people understand that you could put it on on a faster speed, and uh it's okay. But I think there probably is a time frame. I'm curious. Again, another clip for YouTube or Instagram or whatever, or if in honor of Dave a vine. Maybe we'll make a yes, Dave. This is a vine. Just for you, Dave. Just for you. How long? We want to put this out there to you all. How long is too long a WhatsApp voice message? Yeah, that was poetic. How long is too long a WhatsApp voice message? So I'm gonna say over two minutes. Yeah, try to keep it under two minutes. In fact, I think you're right. I think WhatsApp should shorten it to just be two minutes, just like they have those video, the circle videos that's a minute, a voice message should be two minutes.
SPEAKER_00I agree with you. You it feels like when somebody leaves a voice note that's three minutes, four minutes, five minutes, it feels like the person saying, I want to have a conversation with you, except I only want to have my half of the conversation with you, right? Not your half of the conversation. And that's I don't think it's intentional, but it's a little bit uh self-centered. I don't want to say it's insulting.
SPEAKER_02They're a supervillain who monologues. That's the that isn't that the the you know the character trait of a supervillain that they monologue and tell you their entire plan. Right. Also, like delete it and record it again.
SPEAKER_00No one will judge you. Yeah, yeah. It's too much. It's too much. And then I just I'm not gonna listen to it. When it's that long, I'm like, okay, when's my next car ride that I can listen to this? Because I'm not spending like five minutes of whatever I'm doing to listen to this voice note. Just call if if you honestly just call me. By the way, not for nothing, the era of just calling people. I feel like also, is that over? Are we now have to text people to ask them if it's okay to call?
SPEAKER_02By the way, I am so much I prefer calling than texting and emailing any day of the week. I can sit, I would happily sit on the phone for 45 minutes with someone rather than go back and forth on soup like 3,000 emails. First of all, you really get much more empathy in a phone call. I I think I have that luxury in my job. Like I have the opportunity to spend 45 minutes. I am not the principal of the school. And if there is a situation that's going on with a student, I can sit on the phone for 45 minutes. We build a partnership between me and a parent, and um, I really feel like that phone call is is sometimes critical.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I agree with you. I am phone call over for sure over email. Um, and I think that that texts and voice notes are great for short bursts. Quick question, quick thing, no problem, you know. But if you really want to have a conversation, they're they're not they're not made for conversation.
SPEAKER_02I'm also very into if you're gonna like like if you send a shilo to let's say one of your bame or something like that, send the voice message and then write a little descriptor underneath, even though it does transcribe it. Although I will tell you there have been some major errors with the transcribing. I don't even want to tell you AI makes mistakes, but um, it just write underneath.
SPEAKER_00This is urgent. All right. Um, let's come back for a second. Cam Cayley, you survived and not only survived, you thrived at visiting day. Uh this year we have no visiting day. My kids are on programs where there is no visiting day. And I have to tell you, I loved seeing my kids at visiting day. I don't miss it. I don't miss the long drive there. Certainly, the long drive that that ride back is is just ride back is brutal.
SPEAKER_02We did stop in New Jersey. We did we got a chance to visit a very good friend of mine, Rabbi Stell Silverman, for all those people from Mariah or Hartora. And we stopped for like two seconds just to say hello, but it was really it was a really nice visit. Um, but yeah, it's a it's a long ride. The ride there, there's anticipation, the ride back, and especially on a July 4th weekend, it is it's a lot. There were times we were not doing anything, it was it was nice, it's hard.
SPEAKER_00And if your kids get as car sick as my kids do, it just becomes a quest for survival.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Speaking of car, by the way, I don't think I ever mentioned this, but a huge shout out to Izzy. Izzy, I after he graduated, he didn't have school for like eight more days or whatever. It was probably like just five, it was probably five days. He was so bored, he literally cleaned my car. Wow, my car has not been cleaned in generations.
SPEAKER_00Is that is that like uh an uh callback to our good friend Ellie Boitz? Uh, you know, he jokes about like during the during the nine days, you want meat so badly that you will even learn to rotate.
SPEAKER_02He just said something to do. But he literally I looked at the floor, I haven't seen that floor in years. I sell my car for Pesach because I'm so scared of it. And he cleaned it. It was unbelievable. Amazing. And what's the reward? What's the reward for that? I you know, I I offered him money and he said I don't want anything. Wow. He happens to be the special kid before he went to camp. He wanted to get a phone before he went to camp so he could have a phone number just in case you know somebody uh wanted his number, which I thought was okay. We went to the Verizon store. Hey, Verizon, if you want to sponsor the show, we will gladly take Yeah, that's probably true. So we we opened his account, he got a free phone, which was very nice. And he I said to him, I'm like, You sure you want to open this the night before camp? And he goes, You're right, I'll open it when I get back. Not a single one of my other children would do that. Wow. He did not open a brand new phone before camp. He just wanted the phone number. That is something else crazy. He's a very special kid. That being said, I want to just shout out Aaron. Aaron is doing great. He i his bed was made. I talked about this on the on the uh drive-by. I'm I'm blown away. He's neat, he's getting the counselor said he gets up early. It's unbelievable. This kid, he's figured it out. Incredible. Shout out to the Kaylee people, they figured out Aaron. Yeah, they did it.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, we said Kaylee's a magical place.
SPEAKER_02We're a magical place. The one thing that Aaron drives him crazy is that I talk to everybody. I'm like a big schmozer. Oh my god, I'm a familiar schmoozer. Yeah, absolutely. You too, right?
SPEAKER_00Yep, I'm a huge schmoozer at it's almost hard to believe that you and I are schmoozers that we talk a lot. It's a good point.
SPEAKER_02As we record ourselves, we should have a podcast. We should have a podcast. I mean, we could be doing this on the phone, but instead we want you all to listen to it. Anyway, so like I'm a big schmoozer. It's so terrible. And like we're Davni Mincha, and then Rebbe Lewitz gives a 10 minullacha, and Rabbi Lewitz has been my Rebbe's in since I was in DRS, since 10th grade. And then after 10-minullacha, I feel this tug on my arm, and it's Aro. And he's like, Abba, you cannot talk to anybody. And he's right. I do schmooze way too much. By the way, a lot of people have been listening and seeing our clips on online. Yes. A lot of people were asking about the the about the uh the podcast.
SPEAKER_00A lot. I got a lot of comments. I got a lot of comments on the uh how much do you bench clip that we put up? That was pretty funny. Yeah, a lot of people like that. Um this is a good time, by the way, to remind people to please like and subscribe. You can follow us on Instagram, on YouTube. Uh, you can send us an email at carpalguyspod at gmail.com. Uh, follow us. You can listen to us, I should say, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Amazon Music. I mean, we're we're everywhere. Everywhere you get your podcast.
SPEAKER_02We're everywhere. We are everywhere. So we've been talking a lot about a couple of things we are planning to roll out in the let in the next few uh weeks. We are going to be starting a WhatsApp group for our our listeners. I don't want to say fans, because like, come on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, listeners, friends of the show.
SPEAKER_02Friends of the show, friends of the show. So we want a focus group type of WhatsApp group. Maybe you could help us also to push out the show to those people that uh you care about, love, or want to annoy. And you can send in questions, send comments, and we want your feedback. We love the feedback. You could even, if you're in the WhatsApp group, send us your anti-semitic stuff and we'll be able to respond. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00It's a direct pipeline to us. Question of the week. Um you can answer the question of the week. You can answer the question of the week. Answer the question of the week. Submit the question, answer the question, the rapid fire questions, give us topics. We we want to hear from you. We want to hear from the people who listen to the show. What are the things you want to hear us talk about? What are some of the topics that you care about that you're passionate about that you'd like us to explore? And uh, we want to involve you in the process creating community around uh the Carpal Guys podcast. So if you're interested in joining the WhatsApp group, let us know. You can send us an email, carpalguyspod at gmail.com, or you can text Usher, text me, text Dave, and uh we'll add you to the group. We're excited about this.
SPEAKER_02We will make this happen. And keep in mind, as you have seen, carpal guys does not mean just guys, it's guys and gals. Number two, uh, we're working on it. We are working on it. It's exciting. We're gonna start making magnets. And for your car, the car, the official carpal guys magnet, we will be rolling that out uh pretty soon. And this way you can broadcast to the entire world. Not only that you learn Daf Yomi, but you also not only Dafiomi, but you also listener of the Carpal. You also listen to the Carpool Guys uh podcast, and that you are a fan.
SPEAKER_00Just a reminder, also, please give us a review, rate and review the show. Five-star reviews would be awesome. It helps unlock our episodes, helps unlock the show so that other people can find it more easily.
SPEAKER_02So what do you were telling me something about the algorithm that within the first like 45 minutes, if you react to it, it boosts the algorithm. More people can get access to it. Something like that. It's uh it's like magic. It's it's like magic. It's like magic.
SPEAKER_00The AI, the AI uh overlords are the ones who control everything now. So we're we're happy about it. Speaking about AI overlords today, by the way, I had an amazing opportunity at work. The OU has a new program. They have a group of interns who are all working on various AI projects in the OU and in the Toro world. Very exciting, and I got to speak to them for a while today. And first of all, I had a blast. It was super fun. I want to give a shout out to my new good friend, Yaer Lu, who put the whole thing together. Um related to Jack Lou. So I don't know if he was related to Jack Lou. He is, however, related to Rabbi Lou from Central. Um I don't know if you know Rabbi Lou. I am a big Rabbi Lou fan and follower. Rabbi Lou is a family favorite at Central. My daughter had him, my sister-in-law had him, multiple, I think multiple sisters-in-law had him at Central. Anyway, I find out that that Yahir, who runs this program, is his son. And that was all of a sudden, like, you know, my brain exploding.
SPEAKER_02Mind blowing.
SPEAKER_00And then it got better or worse, depending on how you look at it. Um I find out kind of after the fact that and shout out to my new friend Separa Rosenbach. So she is the daughter of my good friend Dale Rosenbach. We went to OJ together like a million years ago. Um, and it's crazy because now my friend's kids are working at the OU. And so this is now a whole new level of oh my god, I feel I feel old. Because as I was going around the table, I realized, right, you're the niece of somebody I know, you're the son, you're the daughter of somebody I know. And like I've hit that that place. In fact, last year I spoke uh for my good friends at Yachad. I spoke at one of their professional development days, and um I had mentioned that you know, I've been with NCSY in the OU now for almost uh at that point, it was almost 25 years. Now that's passed. I've been here officially 25 years, and this woman gets up and she says, Wow, that's longer than I've been alive. And now it's great because we're friends and that moment has passed. But in the moment, that was like a uh Wow, okay. This is what I have to say.
SPEAKER_02You're not imagining it, John. You are in fact old. Like very old. That old. You are that old. You're an old man. We're happy to know you, uh, but you are in fact old.
SPEAKER_00But it was it was great despite me feeling like I'm a million years old. This group was awesome, very, very smart. I was punching way above my uh weight class there. They were they were out of my league in terms of uh intelligence. I mean, if this is a crew that's getting together to like design AI systems for the OU, clearly they're they're a little bit beyond what I'm capable of. But it was it was awesome. We went over a lot of really fun career and life lessons. And uh I want to put that out there that if that's something people want to hear about, people want to talk about on the show, is uh career stories, lessons, thoughts, and ideas from us. I think that could be a fun direction for us to go sometime. So uh if you want to learn like the uh like the AI interns did today, let us know and we'd be happy to do shows like that. But there was something kind of special also, even you know, putting aside that I again that I felt very old. There's something special about okay, I I'm now, you know, maybe I'm the expert, maybe I'm somebody who knows what I'm talking about. I sometimes feel like I don't know what I'm talking about, but with the group today, at least I was introduced as somebody who knew what they were talking about. Um, which is sort of a mixed bag for me, and I think it's a good segue into our topic of the day, Usher.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we were talking a lot about this earlier today when we were in our print planning sesh. Yes. Is that what we call it? That's what the kids call it these days. Is that true? I don't know. They're not telling me. They're not telling me. They're not telling me either. Usually they're like, you're so cringe. That's usually I've gotten that for my kids before.
SPEAKER_01It's like, come on.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Anyway, we have talked about this many, many times, you and I. And that is the topic of imposter syndrome and and confidence, and you know, the the just that curve, which they call the Dunning curve, uh Kruger curve, where you're either overly confident, and that's often when you start off, and then as you get more knowledge and as you've accrued more experience, you realize I don't know what I think I'm supposed to know, or people are asking you advice, and you're like, I don't know what to tell you. And it's it's really, you know, one of these things that we all struggle with. I'm sure I have many stories about this, but it sounds like, you know, you were in a room today with very bright people.
SPEAKER_00Were you feeling a little bit like the imposter? So it's interesting because um I was brought in to be the expert. I was the guest speaker, guest presenter, and so I had a program planned and we did it. I executed the program and it was great. And they had a lot of fun, and I had a lot of fun. So, in this instance, but I think part of it also being that I'm much older than them. Um, it was smooth, it felt fine. I have much absolutely been in other presentations much, much, much, much, much older, much, much. But there's been multiple times where I walk grandfather. I am very much regretting telling you this story, by the way. Nobody else, nobody else who I who's listening, I regret, but telling you the story I deeply regret. Yes. Um, so I didn't feel it today, but I feel I I feel it regularly walking into a room where I'm gonna present and seeing people who are older than me or who are maybe they outrank me or or just they're in a different business. Uh I don't know. I feel it sometimes even at Shabbos Meals where where people are talking about, you know, I'm the vice president of this, or I've done this, or I've accomplished this, and I'm I I find myself sometimes trying to justify what I do. I don't know, do you ever do that? Where it's like I I know what I do is important and I know that I'm good at it, but sometimes I feel like I'm trying to to justify it. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02This year, I I mean, we've talked about this before, this past school year. So um my one of my supervisors and mentors, um, Miriam Steiner. So she used to be the director of the counseling department for eighth grade through twelfth grade. And when the middle school uh merged with the lower school, so Miriam stayed with the high school and I became the director of counseling for the middle school. Um, and I definitely had a massive wave of whether it was imposter syndrome or just feeling like I no longer had that net. And it was a very overwhelming feeling. I don't know if I'm really out of that feeling yet, but it was certainly a feeling of like I don't really always know the answers to it. And sometimes there are really important questions that it doesn't seem to be that you could just Google it or you can uh you know find it. Now, I try to approach life, I try uh with humility and I'm trying to say I don't know the answer. I will try my best to look into it, but I think to my when I have interacted with my own uh mentors, when they say to me, I don't know, I'll look into it. I think I respond I respect them more than when they come up with something that it doesn't feel right.
SPEAKER_00And then you're like, ugh, it's it's so much better saying I don't know really it does show a level of confidence because somebody with less confidence might make up an answer or might like in the moment panic and say, Oh, maybe it's this, maybe it's that, and say it with more authority than they actually have. So saying I don't know, I mean, aside from being honest, I think is is even is even a sign of confidence. Like, I don't know, but I'll find out or I'll help you find the answer.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00But I'm not gonna make up an answer.
SPEAKER_02You're right that it's a sign of confidence to the point that you're like, I'm not gonna lose my job by saying I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure there are people out there that do feel threatened by the point of saying, like, I don't know. And it's it would be unfortunate if that would be in fact the case. But at the same time, I do remember when I was still in graduate school and I hadn't yet uh gotten my my MSW. I remember thinking I knew everything. And it just like I I remember a story that I in my head I went over to one of the social workers in the school, and I'm like, and by the way, I'm in graduate school for social work and I know everything. And this student needs this, this, and this. And it's like looking back on that story now, I'm like, I was such a fool. Okay, yes, there are some, in fact, some brilliant people out there in the world, but like when you're first starting out, you need to learn by experience. You're not gonna know everything, that's just the nature of the beast. You're in parenting.
SPEAKER_00It's it's it's I remember when my oldest daughter, Ashir, was born. I don't know if you had this in the hospital. Did they make you watch the don't shake the baby video?
SPEAKER_02Yes, they did.
SPEAKER_00So I watched it, they made us, they made us watch it. They did. I watched it. I'm like, okay, I know don't shake the baby. It's the whole rest of it that I don't know. I don't know anything else. I I was I remember very clearly, and the Hama made so much fun of me. I was so upset, I couldn't swaddle. I didn't know how to like fold the like the blanket. I couldn't swaddle. I'm like, I'm gonna be a terrible father. I can't swaddle the baby, but I know not to shake the baby. But it was just like, I what do you even do?
SPEAKER_02And you kind of it's a very funny, it's a good point. You're saying it's like this much we can tell you. Yeah, the rest you're gonna have to figure out on your own. It's like also it's when you get in the car, the car seat has to be buckled in properly. Yeah, the car seat. The car seat. Do you have a car seat? That's all you need to do. I'm not gonna tell you how to buckle the child into the car. No, but the but the car seat itself needs to be buckled into the car.
SPEAKER_00All you need, do you have the the ticket to bring the kid home? What's the ticket? Do you have a car seat? Because in order to bring a child home, all you need is a car seat. You do not have to be able to do that. I have no knowledge of anything else, but I have a car seat. So it's true. I'm ready to go. You're ready to go.
SPEAKER_02So, like, look, I find I happen to have find it a little bit frustrating when you're interacting with certain professionals that are very, very early on in their career and have an overabundance of confidence. Now, it could be that it's a veil. Maybe they don't realize that it's okay to say they don't know. And maybe they're just overcompensating with confidence. But also I have interacted with other people that want to learn and are through thirsting for knowledge. Sometimes it's overwhelming because you don't feel like you have all the answers. I am in my job, I am a supervisor. I am also supervising interns who are in their first and second year of social work graduate school. But it's sometimes kids will come to us, I call them kids, and they're thirsting for knowledge. They want information. Sometimes you want them not necessarily learn the hard way like I did, but you also sometimes need to learn in a way that leaves a bad taste in your mouth because you're gonna ultimately not make that mistake again. You know, I had a vi one of my supervisors, Susan Heckler, who I literally spoke to last week. She was my supervisor in the clinic for five years, and we have remained close. She's an incredibly special person to me. And um, she just has helped me really become the person, the the social worker that I am today. Um, but I call her all the time when I have questions. One of the things that she shared with me was it's not always about the qu the conversation you have, it's about the conversation after the conversation. You can make mistakes, you're allowed to make mistakes. I have made many mistakes.
SPEAKER_00And I'm listening we we all have. It's even part of the intro to the podcast. We've made mistakes. It's true. Lots of money. It's a great intro, by the way. I really enjoyed it. A lot of great intro. It is a great intro. What you're saying is is absolutely true. I'll tell you in a in a different angle. Um, there was a point in my career, and you were you were along with me for this part of the journey where um things at work, you know, we're all a little up and down. We were in NAM. NA, yeah, you were with me in NAM, exactly. I know. I wasn't, but you were there. There were there were times at work where where things were were a little bumpy, you know, as everybody has at work, it's it's not always just smooth sailing. And there was a point in my career where I was number two in a two-person department, and I felt like my career was at a little bit of a dead end. And, you know, forget like not having the confidence in the room, walking in and having imposter syndrome, um, it felt like my whole job was kind of like bottom, you know, bottom rung at that point. And I'll tell you a big thing that really changed things for me personally was when we started getting into the podcast stuff and playing with ideas and talking things through, and and and I started the first pod, the precursor to the Carpool Guys. Um I had no idea how to make a podcast. I didn't know how to record, I didn't know how to edit it, I didn't know what you did, I didn't know a Spotify from an Apple from a from a good pods, certainly. Um well now we know. And now we know shouts to good pods, but what I what I learned kind of about myself um was that I could still learn and and that for me unlocked something that even if the job where I was wasn't wasn't going where I thought it was, I could still learn, I can still accomplish new things. And by the way, talking about how do you how do you overcome imposter syndrome, how do you work your way past it? For me, when I developed the skills to do podcasting and I started doing podcasts at work, I started uh the NCSY Pulse podcast for a while and and positioning myself to say, okay, now I'm quote unquote the expert, right? There's I have so many experts that I go to. Um La Havdeal, like a like a Rebbe, you know, a rabbi going to a a post. A mentor, you have some look up to. But but uh I have people that I go to for my questions. Shouts to my good friend Jackie. But um it it really good friend, even though I've never met her. And she exists, Dave. She exists, she was a friend. She really I'll tell you this. She was my NCSY once upon a time, and then she was a volunteer NCSY advisor, and then she worked for me, and now she is my mentor in this space. But I learned I can still do things, and that turned things around for me. Um, and that led me to the road now. I work in talent development where where I learned so much about my new job that that I I function in some ways. I'm not gonna say I'm the expert, but I function as an authority, I would say, and that really turned things around because I knew I could learn.
SPEAKER_02Did you say you're in talent development? Yes. Have I told you that I could sing?
SPEAKER_00I there's limits to my ability. Let me just put this out there.
SPEAKER_02Uh so, like, I mean, look, one of the things that we we are aware of just from the science of imposter syndrome is that it often does affect people who are highly competent because you know how much other people, yes, that is correct, yeah. But you know how much you know, and you know that there's so much more out there that you don't know. I was offered a job and I was like flooded by imposter syndrome to the point where I felt like I would be the dummy on the dais. I hope that I was the one who coined that phrase. And the dummy on the dais. I like it. I literally thought I was gonna be the dummy on the dais. I thought I was gonna be the dumbest guy in the in the room, and it was a big job, and it was it was a honestly, it was an unbelievable opportunity, but I really could not I could not get myself over that uh that part of it. It was not the only factor, but it was certainly a very, very difficult thing for me to get past. And the question ends up being, and it's like, have is imposter syndrome something that that holds you back? Is it you know, I was I was having a meal um with someone on Shabbos, and they and they said that many people in the field, um, they referenced women in the field hold themselves back because of imposter syndrome. Absolutely. But to me, that's fascinating that it holds you back from growth, from throwing yourselves into opportunities, but it certainly, you know, it held me back this time. And a lot of people told me that they that they they thought it was a good opportunity, but I couldn't, I couldn't get myself there.
SPEAKER_00Right. It's hard even for myself. I've seen uh I've had job openings that I've looked at and just kind of poking around in the past where I'm saying, oh, that job looks interesting, and I look at the qualifications, the requirements, and I'm like, I can't do that. You know, maybe I can, maybe I can't, but I I don't feel like I look at the qualifications, I'm like, yeah, that's that's above me. And and the reality is it's probably not. I probably could have done many of those jobs, but I I agree with you. I held myself back. Let me ask you this though: do you ever find that because of the imposter syndrome, you agree to do things that ordinarily you wouldn't be doing? You know, maybe an authority figure, it's a boss, or it's a a president of a board, or it's somebody who's an authority figure says, Hey, could you do this?
SPEAKER_02And because earlier on in my career, yes. Um as I got older and I developed a little bit stronger of a sense of self. And sometimes when when it's something that's like beyond what I what I want to say yes to. And I I've set that boundary. Boundaries is something Miriam Steiner has taught me a lot about over the years. For example, something came up recently uh in camp. We were talking about parents who reach out um at off hours, and it was something that Daniel Strook, the director of Avnet, actually mentioned to me. He said, Look, if it's after hours, don't respond to the person. And then I just call them in the morning. And it happened to have been that happened. I called the person the next day, and they said, Oh, I'm so sorry that I sent you the message the night before. And I said, sure, it's no problem.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting because I think there's a difference. There are people who don't think and then shoot off a WhatsApp or a five-minute voice note or something like that. But there's also people who who don't acknowledge the boundaries. You know, I got a couple messages over the long weekend. I got WhatsApp messages from people saying, Hey, following up. You know, I'm like, hey, not working. You know, it's the weekend or Friday we had off for uh 4th of July, and you don't see me knocking on your door, you know, pestering you about something on your days off. Don't do it to me. And certainly not if you don't need it. Like if it's something that's critical, there's an emergency, or there's there's something you need now, okay, we can have that conversation, but even then, now is really not the time. But somebody was asking me for something that was really, really not not forget not critical. It was not important. There was no time constraints. It could have been asked anytime. Did forget Monday, it could have been uh a week from now, you know? And so I think people sometimes lose themselves in this, like, ah, whatever, you know, be part of the team. And there's a difference between being a team player, being flexible, being dedicated, right? Though those are all good, but that kind of that kind of fades and it kind of blends into this like you don't want to be a doormat and you don't you can't be available except for Dave. Dave's available 24. Did you know that? 24-7. 24-7.
SPEAKER_0224-7.
SPEAKER_00It's uh really quite something.
SPEAKER_02I mean, we make fun of him, but since he's not here, it's it's not easy what he does, and he really has a tremendous amount of responsibility. Now, don't tell him we said this, please. But I am really he really works very hard, and he is incredibly well respected, and he is incredibly good at what he does. Um, and when we kid it's around about 24-7, he really he he is very important. And when his phone goes off, it's emergency, and he's he knows what to do, and he really does deal with life and death matters. Um, and all power to him. We will still make fun of him about 24-7. Absolutely. Hey, do you think he's is he still listening at this point?
SPEAKER_00Do you think he's got a big one? No, how could he be listening? He's busy, he's got 24-7 now. You say he's busy just in general. Dave does not listen to the show. No, he's too busy. He's too busy, he's too busy.
SPEAKER_03Too busy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but like, and like you said, all respect to Dave. I some people, I it's so interesting to see, and I do think a lot of times it's a learned habit. And I've seen it where it's like, yeah, they do it and their boss does it, and I see the I I don't know if you remember there was an episode of uh the TV show, How I Met Your Mother, a bunch of years ago, and they had the chain of yelling. Yes, where yeah, right, where so you yell at somebody and then they get mad, so they yell at somebody. So they're very true to life, such so true to life. 100%, 100%. There's there's MSora to this stuff where you you learn, it's a learned habit. I I had this amazing conversation with a coworker, and she um was not responding to my emails, to my text messages, to my phone calls. Finally, um I spoke to her and I was like, hey, what what's happening? I know you, you're so good and you're so talented. What's happening right now? Because I know in college they didn't teach you this, and I know that you're extremely intelligent. It's a learned habit. You know, she tried to say, no, no, but no, it's a learned habit. You know, you've developed it, it's okay, but we're gonna unlearn it. I'm gonna work with you to correct. But it it's it's the same thing with where people the boundaries dissolve. And yeah, I'm gonna text you.
SPEAKER_02Well, those are like the two strong boundaries. Like it's every look, everybody has to set their own boundaries, but there are some people who have boundaries that are so they have a wall between them and the world, sure, and honestly, it's off-putting to some people, but at the same time, look, everybody has to set their own situation, and we have we never know what's going on in other people's lives. I like to say this often, I am privy to a lot of information because of being a therapist. I still don't know everything that's going on in people's lives, despite the fact that they're telling me a lot of stuff. I still don't know everything because people still hold things back. The reality is that sometimes a person could be going through something major in their life, and that's not why. But what you did was very wise, and that was you you not confronted, but you addressed it. You were you you went head on instead of just ignoring it and letting it fester and become something bigger, it you were able to address it head on. And then actually, I remember you telling me this story um a few weeks ago. It actually led to a positive and productive conversation.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, and if you do it in a positive way and you have a relationship and you build a relationship with somebody, you can have open and honest conversations, you can give constructive like suggestions. It's not the word criticism I don't like. I don't like constructive criticism because it still has the word criticism, which is a negative.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to say criticism, but it's like constructive criticism about the say you saying beautiful and amazing. Yeah, you did that. Dude, you took it like a champ, and good for you. John, you are not amazing or beautiful. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, all right, good. We have reached the moment, I believe, question of the week. The question is question of the week.
SPEAKER_00Um, just to put a bow on this, by the way, is is uh first of all, well said, and and imposter syndrome, it's real, but hopefully we had some takeaways where you can uh listen and say, Okay, I'm not alone.
SPEAKER_02One of the beautiful things I saw in the notes, by the way, before I when we were doing some research, imposter syndrome is not a diagnosis, it is real, but that doesn't mean it's a diagnosis that you will be stuck with forever. Like you were saying, you can work through imposter syndrome.
SPEAKER_00What I said correct, and I'm like, okay, you said correct.
SPEAKER_02You know what? You said it, it's fine. You're more, you're you're you're superior than I. Okay. But the point is, it is not it is not diagnosis. You can work through it. It doesn't mean that you're not going to struggle with it, but you will push through it, could consult mentors, find out how normal it is. Everybody, many people, I can't say everybody. I don't know if you know, uh, son of Sam, you know, in his serial killing days, went through uh, you know, imposter syndrome. But what I don't know, that was the first person who came to mind. But the reality is it's normal, it's something that we go through. Go seek wisdom from mentors. They will tell you their own experiences and then normalizes it for you.
SPEAKER_00Yep, agreed. Okay, question of the week in honor of Dave Tannenbaum.
SPEAKER_02You know what? I'm gonna sponsor question of the week this week in honor of Dave. I don't know how much it costs. It's like a kiddish, right? This week. It is like a kiddish.
SPEAKER_00Question of the week is sponsored by it's in honor of $180?
SPEAKER_01That's uh short now.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, $180 to sponsor question of the week. And uh, if we get enough people, we'll make it a gala question of the week.
SPEAKER_02In honor of Avi and Dave Tannenbaum, who are valiant workers for Camp Cayley in their own way. Yep. Okay, okay, hit it, John. What is the question of the week?
SPEAKER_00Okay, what do you let's see how am I phrasing this? Um what is your favorite part of Fourth of July and what is your Your least favorite part of Fourth of July? That's a great question.
SPEAKER_02You know, I'm struggling I hate to say it. It's a really terrible thing to say. I am struggling this Fourth of July with and we talked about this with Ali Anxiety many, many months ago, and we're gonna have to readdress it. I am. I am really uh you know, the anti-Semitism, all of it, and I don't mean to be negative, but it is it has been difficult. The rabbi in Long Branch where we were for Shabbos, he addressed it actually, and I was I was really amazed that he brought it up. Um, that the conflicting feelings that are are going on in uh I don't remember if it's Jewish Americans or American Jews or whatever it is, but Jews who live in America, um, there is there is certainly something in the water at the moment. It's not a shark, uh, but it's certainly something. Uh, but my favorite thing about I happen to I do like fireworks. I think it's fun. I I like when bringing my kids, I like it that they, you know, um they're they're amazed by it. I'm amazed by it. It's fun. The one thing I think is overrated about fireworks is this concept of the quote unquote grand finale. Like everybody's like, wait, also you're like, is that the grand finale? Is that right? Is that the grand finale? Wait, wait, did we wait over?
SPEAKER_00No, no, there's one more.
SPEAKER_02No, that was just some guy in his backyard. I can't, I can never figure out which is the grand finale, but I do like the fireworks. I like the the gold ones that like shoot up and then burst, and then then there's the leader burst, and it goes like that's the one that I I'm doing the special effects for you, the listener, by the way. That was for you. That's the one I like, and I enjoy it. I like the different colors, I like these physics around it, I like the chemistry. I'm a I'm a fireworks guy. That's I I happen to enjoy a good fireworks show.
SPEAKER_00I I hear you. It's funny. First of all, I like the fireworks also, but I just I feel like it's it's gotten to the point, you know. I and I'm okay. Let me let me separate this. Fireworks somewhere at a location, awesome, right? Okay, we're going to this place, we're gonna go see the fireworks, great. We have a lot of fireworks here in West Hempstead, like a lot of it's not fireworks.
SPEAKER_02Let's be honest with ourselves. We've talked about this many times when it's July 4th through the entire month of July. It's crazy. It's like bombs going off left and right. Now we don't want to laugh, we do not want to compare ourselves to Achina Bene Israel, Erit Israel. But uh I'll tell you this.
SPEAKER_00On uh 4th of July, right, it was Shabbos, so Moze Shabbos, there was fireworks, and it was awesome. My kids went out to the front lawn. We had a great view. We actually had a view of like four different areas doing fireworks at the same time. We could see them and hear them. It was it was kind of cool, and it was cool at nine o'clock, and it was cool at 9 30, and then 10 o'clock and 10 30. And my by 11 o'clock, my eight-year-old, my six-year-old are like crying they want to go to sleep. My kids never want to go to sleep, and they're crying they want to go to sleep 11:30, 12. I'm like, what is going on with this crate? Like, we bring the fireworks, give us the fireworks. I love the fireworks too much. We there has to be a time where we just say enough, enough. We don't need all the fireworks at like 12 o'clock at night. I I get it. I sound like again that the theme tonight is like I'm the old man in the room, but like I I don't want to be the party pooper, but at the same time do you wear earplugs, John? I do not I draw the line somewhere. I do not, I do not wear earplugs.
SPEAKER_02That's fair.
SPEAKER_00Um my favorite part of Fourth of July, it's so funny. You went very, very like deep on all this stuff. My my stuff is very superficial. I love I I I know that our question of the week revolves around food, but you're just a you're a superficial dude. I'm very superficial. I love, I have these childhood things that I hold on to. That's true. You're a child, you're a product of the Midwest, and you I am a product of the Midwest. I love root beer floats. And when I tried to introduce it to my family, they were zero. My wife was like, I'm not interested.
SPEAKER_01My father is huge, huge root beer floating. I love beer floats.
SPEAKER_00My kids, by the way, my younger kids have converted. They love root beer floats now.
SPEAKER_01To to what? To root beer floatism. Oh, okay. You gotta be clear on that.
SPEAKER_00They're fanatic, they're they're ultra-orthodox root beer float drinkers, I would say. How could you not be? It's delicious.
SPEAKER_02First of all, root beer is probably the best soda. I'm sorry to say this to Diet Coke, which I love. Everybody knows caffeine-free Diet Coke. Love caffeine-free Diet Coke, but root beer is the best soda.
SPEAKER_00It is, and by the way, I think you can be Yotze. And not cream soda.
SPEAKER_02Cream soda is no bros.
SPEAKER_00I think you can be Yotse, the float with Coke. I've had Coke floats, they're still also pretty good. Also good. Also good. You could be Yotse. Um, but my my wife, my in-laws, we had in-laws in from Israel, not interested. And I went out and I bought root beer, I bought Coke, I bought ice cream. We had a blast, and uh, my little kids had a blast. I love root beer floats. And I know it's funny, by the way, I'm a big, you know, for all the Yom Toven, we have like the different foods, and it's food is such a huge part of Judaism of all the different things. Like, there is absolutely a link to like your childhood and to your past and to like the the the customs of the Masora, and not comparing root beer floats to like matzah, although, although. Um, I think there's something there, and to me, it's like really uh it's a special thing, and and uh we have a lot of fun with it. So yeah, love the root beer floats, but I the one thing if you have listened this far, you deserve a treat.
SPEAKER_02You and that is the following story, though I will not name which child it is. Oh no. So there is it is well known that you can see the fireworks really well from your side of town in Dogwood. Yes, like if you go to Dogwood and to the area by what's that uh sty that supermarket over there? Like Franklin Square, like Little Idol, Little, Letl? Letl. Um so if you go to Little, so my children have a tendency to like to climb on top of the car and watch the fireworks. One of my children wearing underwear, and everybody got a show. So it was special. Anyway, we wish you all a wonderful uh July 4th weekend. Again, a happy birthday to Izzy, our number one of our number one listeners, Izzy and Aron. We miss you in camp. Um, and uh it was a blast. Dave, we hope that you're doing well. We miss you. Hope to see you soon. And uh, we hope that we did you justice with our question of the week.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely we do. And it's hard to live in your shadow. Reminder: if you are interested in joining our WhatsApp group, let us know. CarpalGuysPod at gmail.com. We would love to have you to contribute to weigh in on question of the week and all of our topics. Should we start it tonight?
SPEAKER_02We should start it. Let's start it tonight. Let's go like there are some people that like text us. We will we can name some people, should we? I feel like Yoshua Alman. Yoshua Almond is a good idea.
SPEAKER_00I feel like Yoshua Almin is is number one on the list of being included, being invited, invited. Also, and Naftali. Naftali didn't want to. Naftali Pfeiffer, friend of the show, absolutely. Pfeiffer is a friend of the show. Well, there are some people that we are we inviting our parents into this, probably we know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so uh my mother, uh it's a long time.
SPEAKER_00We should make usher separate WhatsApp group for our moms, just to like talk about it. My mother's not gonna check it, to be fair, but whatever. All right, all right, thanks everybody. We'll talk to you soon. I feel like Dave would be yawning at this point. Oh, don't get it to be it to be.