Wood, Wire, and Wisdom with Garret Woodward (EPISODE 2-INTERVIEW)

Some people interview musicians. 

Garret Woodward becomes friends with them. 

This week, I sit down with acclaimed music journalist Garret Woodward to talk about the stories that happen long after the notebook closes. From writing for Rolling Stone and his beloved This Must Be the Place column to camping in Appalachia, finding community through music, and earning the trust of artists, Garret shares what it really takes to tell someone else's story with honesty and heart. 

We also dive into the changing landscape of music journalism, the importance of curiosity, and why the best conversations rarely go where you expect them to. 

Whether you're a music lover, an aspiring writer, or someone who simply appreciates a great story, this episode is packed with humor, insight, and plenty of unforgettable moments.

Follow Garret's work and check out the links below to learn more. 

Instagram @garretkwoodward

www.smokymountainnews.com

www.rollingstone.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

When I think of Garrett Woodward, three words immediately come to mind. Extubert, music lover, and good people. I first met Garrett somewhere in the hills of Appalachia, probably on a camping trip. Truthfully, I don't remember the exact moment we met, but I remember the impression he made. Since then, we've become great friends. Garrett is also an exceptional writer. Through his weekly This Must Be the Place column in the Smoking Mountain News, and his work for Rolling Stone. He's carved out a unique place in music journalism. His gift isn't just telling an artist's story, it's earning their trust, making them feel at home, and often walking away with a lifelong friendship. He's loud, endlessly curious, incredibly intelligent, and one of my favorite people to talk music with. I'm proud to call him my friend. This is my conversation with journalist Extraordinaire Garrett Woodward. All right, Garrett Woodward, how you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Mackenzie, it has been forever. It's like I said, you know, it's it's nice to connect. You know, we haven't lost touch of each other, but uh see you face to face is great.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Yeah, same here. So I'm gonna ask you some questions because I've been wanting to, first of all, I've been wanting to interview you since you interviewed us years and years and years ago and owner of the sun. And we had talked backstage at um the orange peel a few times when I played there with rumors. So I feel like it's kind of fun to put your hat on my head for a little while.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Which is weird. I normally don't get asked questions, so this is fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

That's what I thought. I was like, I would love to ask Garrett questions because you're the one who's always talking to musicians. So I was like, well, let's let's flip the script a little bit. But I want to know how you originally got into journalism specifically.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Well, I grew up on the Canadian border about one mile from Quebec in upstate New York, Adirondack Mountain, Champlain Valley, Lake Champlain, right across from Burlington, Vermont. I was the music, well, I have been a music freak my whole life. I have older parents. Uh I'm 41. My dad's 83 or 84 now, and I'm the oldest. And so my dad was a child of the 40s and 50s, my mom was a fire child of the 60s. So when I grew up, I had this huge uh palette uh of different music. When I was in the car with my dad, it was old country and old jazz. Uh, he loved all the good stuff. Hank Snow, Hank Thompson, Hank Thompson, Ernest Tubb, uh Hank Williams, and then he loved Nat King Cole, Sarah Vaughn, all that good stuff. And then in the car with my mom, it was Jimi Hendrix, Sly Stone, uh Beatles, uh, The Stones, all the singer-songwriter stuff, America, Neil Young. And so there's a reason I'm telling you all this. Is so I grew up with all that, and I grew up in the 90s with great FM radio stations, especially growing up outside of Brolington, Vermont, which was kind of like if people aren't familiar, it's kind of like a Portland, Oregon, or in Athens, Georgia, but it's in Vermont. Huge music scene, huge art scene, especially in the 90s. There was a lot of really good radio stations rolling around in there. And I just grew up listening to the radio and then had all this stuff with my parents, and I got obsessed with music. And when I was 12 years old, I was in an art class in middle school, and the art teacher had a bunch of Rolling Stone magazines on the shelf, and I didn't know what Rolling Stone was. Uh, and I didn't know there was a magazine out there that that made me feel or wrote about the way I felt about music, and I kept reading it, and art teacher would get mad at me. You know, he's like, You're not doing your busywork because the reason the magazines were there, because he would have the kids trace the ads and just busy work. And I got bored doing that and started reading the articles and fell in love with all of that. And and I, you know, he pulled me aside one day, asked me to see him after class. I thought I was in trouble, but he had said, you know, are you actually reading this magazine? I said, Yeah, it makes me feel they're writing about how I feel about music, and I I never knew this existed. And he goes, Well, if you actually are reading the articles, you don't have to do the busy work, you can just sit and read all class. So that whole year, I just read all these Rolling Stones from like his college years, which were the mid to late 80s. So it was all like the REM Tom Petty issues, Grateful Dead, all that good stuff. Early grunge, like the Nirvana issue with the corporate magazine still suck cover. So he had all these copies, and I just devoured it. And I told my mom when I was that young at 12, I was like, I want to work for Rolling Stone magazine. That's what I want to do. Uh, I want to I want to go to shows for free, I want to get records for free, and I want to be able to travel and ask musicians a million questions that I have always had. Uh, I was that weird kid that had no problem talking to adults, like as a little kid. I grew up with older parents, so there was always a older adults around. And I was that nerdy kid that would walk up to literally anybody and be like, What do you do with your life? Or ask them. I mean, I was that kid, I was the harness kid where my mom would have to yank me back because I was constantly wandering around looking at stuff, and everything was you know a curiosity to me, and it still is. And um, I started going to shows in middle school, and looking back, I mean, I was really young, but I was like 12 years old, getting dropped off at like arena shows in Montreal, Burlington, you know, like I remember sneaking away to go to like basement punk rock shows, all that stuff. I was just obsessed with it all. And the dream was to I wanted to be Kurt Loader in essence because I wanted to work for MTV and write for Rolling Stone.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

So and then TRL was around, and I Carson Daly was a big influence uh on kind of this trajectory because I wanted to do what he did. And when I was in um high school, uh I had an opportunity my senior year. My mom had a friend. I grew up in the middle of nowhere, and my mom had a friend whose daughter worked for MTV2 in Manhattan, and my mom brought me down when I was uh senior in high school, and I got to go around the TRL studios. This was like oh one, oh two.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah, that's like in the prime of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, I got to get I got to get my yeah, I got to get my photo taken in the photo booth. I still have it somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, yeah. I actually have a photo of me in the photo booth. Uh and I remember walking out of MTV Studios, I was probably 17, maybe, and I was like, this is what I want to do. I want to be in the music industry, I want to be, I want to be around this. So I went to school uh in Connecticut, Quinnipiac University, in uh the fall of 03 for broadcast journalism and history. I was a double major, and the thought was to push into uh TV and radio initially. Um I didn't know how to write. It makes sense in hindsight though, because I always had this weird way of writing essays in high school. I don't know. I was always really good at writing essays, but I never really thought of writing as a career. And what happened was um as I was you know going through college, it was my junior year going into junior summer into senior year. So that would have been the what is that spring of 06, and I needed an internship uh that summer or else I wouldn't graduate the following year. And I went home for spring break in upstate New York, and I called up all these radio stations and TV stations, and nobody got back to me, even the local paper, nobody responded. And I went to this Mo show, the jam band Mo and this winter thing called Snowdown, S N-O-E. And um, it was in Lake Placid, New York. It was at the Olympic Center where the Miracle on Ice happened, that same arena. Wow, yeah, and so I was walking around in there and I ran into my aunt's ex-boyfriend uh who got me into the Grateful Dead when I was like nine years old. He got me into Fish, the Dead, all that stuff. And he was asking me about what my plans were for the summer, and I said, you know, I was really couldn't find an internship, and I'm really bummed because I might not graduate on time. And he goes, Oh, you know, I don't know, you know, it's not TV or radio, but I have a friend that's walking around here that runs a music magazine in Burlington, Vermont. You know, you should talk to him. And then lo and behold, like 10 minutes later, the guy walks by me in the concourse, and my AntX boyfriend, Al, he he yells to the guy, he goes, Mike, come over here. And his name was Mike McKinley, and he at he was the publisher of State of Mind Music Magazine. It was this incredible, it's not around anymore, but it was this incredible print publication in Burlington, Vermont, where they would do like five, six-page spreads on artists and really in-depth, cerebral, amazing conversations with like jazz greats, and you know, they would interview like Warren Haynes and Bella Fleck and um Ron Carter, the famous jazz bassist. Like they would just do these crazy interviews. And I remember Mike had said, Do you know how to write? And I said, No, I don't, no, I don't, but I love music and I love I want to be in this industry. And so he threw me in there, and I just fell in love with what they were doing, and it really taught me a lot about journalism, the way that he approached how to interview an artist, because it was more out of passion and purpose rather than what's tour like. It'd be like, well, you know, like talk to me about that certain phase of your career, what you were going through, and stuff like that. So it ran out of the gate, everything I I still use in my subconscious tool set was from that um internship. And then, you know, I switched, well, not really switched, I was able to create a hybrid uh major, my senior year, a broadcast print degree, and then the history degree. So that I was doing the internship, grunt work, you know, filling up newsstands, all that stuff, you know, and and then uh Mike asked me if I wanted to do my first uh article for him, like an actual interview. So I interviewed my first interview was uh Peter Rowan. Wow, and uh the bluegrass great, and the only reason I picked him was I had um just uh lifelong deadhead just discovered olden in the way, the legendary bluegrass super group that Jerry Garcia was in the 70s, and Peter was in that group, and you know, they they were the biggest selling bluegrass album until the Oh Brother soundtrack for like 30 20 plus years, 30 years they were the biggest selling album and um bluegrass album. And I remember I had the CD on my desk when Mike called, and I'd seen somewhere Peter was playing near me in Massachusetts, and I just threw it out there. I said, you know, what about Peter Rowan? He goes, Yeah, we'll set it up, we'll do it. And then that's how it began, and that was literally almost 20 years ago, that was November of 06.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

So that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

That's a long-winded story. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

No, it's okay. I kind of was what I was expecting from you because I'm the same way. I'm like, I feel like that's why you and I have gotten along so well throughout the um, if you can believe it, uh 15 years that we've known each other. That's which is just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

That's wild to me. Um it's not when I look in the mirror and I see how white my beard has gotten.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

I have a really nice blur effect on my face right now, so you can't see all my wrinkles, but I've got them.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

If they're there, it's well earned.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

That's exactly. Especially this one right here in the middle from looking at people at venues being like, Are you fucking serious?

SPEAKER_00 12:02

I know that look. I've seen it.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I know you've seen it a couple of times, but um, so I kind of just want to know like, what do you think are some misconcepts misconceptions that people have about journalists?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

It is for for me, it's the best job in the world. It's probably the only thing I can do, to be honest with you. Uh, I was telling somebody this the other day, it's like uh you have to be in it to win it. It's like being a musician. Like, if you really want to make a go at it, there cannot be a plan B. Like if you want to make a run for it, and I never had a plan B. It was always just like, this is what I'm gonna do, and if I starve, and it wasn't even out of glorifying the starving otters thing, but it was like I would rather not have it a lot and still do what I love than a lot and hate my career. So, and I still feel that way, you know. I have very much control of my time, which I think is the most priceless thing in the world, is control of your own time. You know, I make my own schedule. It ends up being crazier, but at the end of the day, you know, you're working on your own schedule and it makes all the difference. Um, like even being able to do this, like other people are in offices. I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna go do an interview with my friend, you know? Yeah. Um I guess um of the misconceptions I think, uh, whether it's an artist or just the public, sometimes I feel like they think journalists are out to get them. Uh that's been a big one, especially in the current administrations of our government. Uh, your local journalist is not out to get you. We live in your neighborhood, we pay taxes in your community, we love where we live. I love where I live. And that's always been kind of tough because people think because you're a journalist, that you're part of the machine and the problem. And it's like, no, I'm just a person that likes to talk to people. So that's one of the big ones I could say is that people I remember people thinking because uh I work uh for local publications that I'm part of mass media, but then at the same time, yeah, Rolling Stone. I do work for Rolling Stone, so Rolling Stone is mass media, and it's definitely advertising based. You know, there's a lot of stuff that dictate dictates uh content based on um money. I mean, that's we all know that. But on the local level, it's like you know, I'm uh I'm your neighbor, I want to be friends with everybody. But other I can't really think of too many misconceptions in terms of um the process. Uh I do think sometimes the artists, if they don't have a relationship with you, they m they sometimes are a little curious what your intent is. Uh my intent's always been to properly represent them, but also out of appreciation. Like I'm a fan first and foremost, yeah. And I have all these questions, and sometimes uh artists are a little apprehensive to talk to you because they don't know you, which is fine because a lot of times they've been burned by other journalists where they were misquoted or there was gotcha questions and stuff like that. Yeah, so to that point, um, that's a big reason why I love being in this industry is building relationships with people. You know, I've been 20 years I've been a professional journalist, and at this point, especially in the circles I run around in, the rock and roll, Americana, country and bluegrass circles, I I know most of these people. Like most of the people I interview, I've been interviewing for you know 10, 15, 20 years. So when I show up or text them or call them, they know that they're gonna be taken care of and and their time will be respected. Because that's the other thing for me, especially. If these especially when people are on tour, if these people are gonna give you time out of their day on a hectic tour, you gotta make it worth their while. You gotta do some research, you gotta pay attention and and respect you know the fact that they don't have to talk to you. But um, when you build those relationships, it becomes really great where you can just you know roll in and talk to them, and it it's just great in-depth conversation where you can get to deeper levels every time you talk to them.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

You talked about Rolling Stone, so I kind of want to know how your first Rolling Stone piece came about.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Oh man, that's a wild story.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Keep it short. I'm just kidding. I will.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

So when I moved to North Carolina to be the arts and music editor for the Smoky Mountain News here in Waynesville, one of the first people I met, this was the August of 2012. And one of the first people I met was Joe Rowland, who owns Nanahala, who owned Nanahela Brewing in Bryson City. I think you guys have played there a few years.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah, I know Joe.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah, so Joe and I became really good friends and hit it off. And he was trying to expand the brewery at the time into Nashville, and he went over there and uh had some meetings and then ended up at the Acme Feeding Seat on Broadway and walked in there, saw this singer-songwriter named Jamie Kent, and really liked him and said, You should come play my brewery sometime. Jamie's from Western Mass, New England guy, big Boston Red Sox fan. Joe told me, he goes, Hey, you should um come and meet this guy. I think you guys get along. You're both from the same area, both big Red Sox freaks. Uh, you probably know some of the same people because I used to run around Western Mass all the time. Uh UMass Amherst, that whole area, Northampton, Amherst. And um I went and saw him, we hit it off, and then we became friends. He came back several months later, and you know, he had been following some of my stuff on social media and said, you know, I I like your writing. What's like the the plan? And I said, Oh, I mean, the dream's Rolling Stone, that's the dream. And he goes, Well, it's funny is my best friend is the senior editor for Rolling Stone out of the Nashville office for Rolling Stone Country, uh, Joe Hudak, and Joe is now the deputy editor of Rolling Stone, and he's Jamie's best buddy. And he goes, I go, Well, you know, shit, give him my phone number, give him give him anything, please. I just want to work for that. I just wanted one article, it's all I wanted. I just wanted that was the dream. And um, he goes, Well, I'll give him your number. I can't promise anything. So then I don't hear anything for a while. Uh another year or so goes by. I think this is like 2016 or 17 at that point, and um Joe Roland gets married. Jamie's in the wedding playing music in Bryson City, and we're all up there. Jamie just got off tour and he had all this extra merch he wanted to get rid of, so he just gave all the wedding party a Jamie Kent shirt, just big block letters, Jamie Kent, that's all it said. And um I you know had the shirt, and Jamie had said, you know what, uh I'll reach back out to Joe, but I can't guarantee anything. And then again, nothing happened for several months. I ended up by chance going to a Marcus King show in Pisca Bruin. There were 3,500 people at this show, packed, sold out. I'm in the crowd. This guy taps me. I'm wearing Jamie Kent's shirt. Oh, it's the only time I've worn that shirt because it doesn't never fit correctly on my shoulders. But I hadn't I forgot to do my laundry that day. So it was the only clean shirt I had, which is so nuts how this all happened. So I'm wearing this shirt in the crowd, and this person taps me on the shoulder, turns around, I turn around, and the guy goes, Hey, that's my best friend on your shirt. I said, Oh, that's cool. What's your name? He goes, Joe Hudak. And I go, Wait, are you the editor for Rolling Stone? He goes, Yeah, what's your name? I say, Garrett Woodward. And he goes, Oh, Jamie's been telling me about you.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Holy crap.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Just because I was wearing that shirt. And we ended up um hanging out the rest of the evening, and you know, and uh Joe's process is he really wants to get to know somebody before he might put them on an assignment. So this worked out. I was face to face with him. We had a couple beers and he asked me about you know my aspirations. He's like, well, you know, I'll keep you in mind. And this was like the summer of 2018, and three months later I got a cold call from him right around Thanksgiving at 18. And he said, Hey, the 30th anniversary of Warren Haynes Christmas Jam in Asheville, where I live. We don't have anybody covering it. Do you want to cover it for us? I mean, I I almost died right there. I was like, oh my goodness, like I got an assignment from Rolling Stone, and the uh that's the first gig was all because of that t-shirt. And uh that first weekend was nuts. I entered my first interview for them that first day, it was a three-day thing, was uh Warren Haynes, and then I interviewed Dave Grohl. I spent a whole night drinking with Dave Grohl. It was my first assignment.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

That's so cool. But yeah, like some serious, you've had a couple of those like divine intervention moments, like the universe was just like pushed you into what you've always wanted, like going to you know, the miracle on ice arena and running into your aunt's ex-boyfriend and getting that job because of it, and then wearing a shirt at a concert and then getting this dream job. I mean, that's seriously like so cool because I know so many people who are living their dream, and it's because of this like divine intervention, like the universe is smiling on you, and I just think that's awesome. Like, that's so cool, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

That's I don't take it for granted, not a single day um at all with what I get to do for a living. That's why I love my job. Like I said, I've been in it almost 20 years and I love it more now than ever. I really, really do. Honestly, honestly do. And you know, I've now I've been with Rolling Stone eight years, and I've probably at least That's God, it's gotta be 75 to 100 articles, probably at this point for them. I was averaging about two or three a month for a while, and now I'm down uh because I'm busy with uh this book project right now, so I'm doing about one or two a month, and it's still Joe Hudak is still my editor, and he's been such an amazing mentor and the experiences. Man, I've got to interview all of whoever's alive, pretty much all of the people over the years. Like I got to interview um Allison Krause and Winona Judd and Red Clay Strays, Paul Cothen, um you know, rock and roll people like Larkin Poe and and um Marty Stewart, and you just think about all these names and all these weird experiences you end up having, you know, like you're just somewhere doing something. Like I remember hanging out in Dallas, Texas, interviewing Robert Earl Keen over beers, and um then that weekend was nuts. It was like the reopening of the Longhorn Ballroom, it was like uh Old Crown Medicine Show, Asleep at the Wheel, Lucero, Morgan Wade, and Robert Earl Keane. And I'm yeah, I'm just running around Dallas, and then you know, you end up one time you're up in Montana running around under the big sky festival and and doing these crazy interviews with people, and and it's so amazing, and that's why I this is what I'm supposed to be doing because I feel that when I'm in those moments, I'm like, this is nuts, you know, like yeah, yeah, and it's it I'm I love that how good of a storyteller you are because there's so many things that you've said that I'm looking at my notes and going, well, I don't have to ask that question now, I don't have to ask that question.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

But I feel like I know maybe the answer to this next question, but you might surprise me because you always do. But are there any interviews that you've done that were surprisingly emotional?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Uh yeah. Off the top of my head, uh Verlan Thompson, the singer-songwriter, he was Guy Clark's right-hand man for like 20, 25 years, 30 years. Him and Sean Camp, who's also in the Earls of Leicester. And um, you ever heard of Verlan Thompson? No, amazing singer-songwriter. A lot of people have covered his stuff. He's um Oklahoma singer-songwriter, and just an amazing dude. And I didn't really know who he was. I ran into him at the Swannee Spring Reunion in Live Oak, Florida. And I was interviewing Marty Stewart, and I got off the bus. Oh, that Marty Stewart thing, I got to hold the uh B-bender guitar, the Clarence White B-bender.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

When I was interviewing, you know how he always wears black? Yeah, he walked, it was he wasn't in his stage clothes, obviously. It was earlier in the day. This is Marty Stewart. He was going to the tour bus, he's head to toe in black silk pajamas, and he still had the black silk scarf on. Oh my god. And the B-bender's sitting on the couch in the in the tour bus. And at the end of the interview, he goes, I see you're looking at that guitar. I was like, Yep. He goes, Do you know anything about it? I was like, Yes, I Marty, I know what that guitar is. One of the most famous guitars on the planet. He goes, Well, you want to hold it? You want to play it? And I was like, uh, I don't want to damage it or drop it. He goes, Oh, this thing's beat to hell. It doesn't matter. Scratched all the hell. And uh and then I'm holding, he goes, Give me your phone. Let me take a picture of you holding it. I was like, I get off the bus, and um there was a keg of beer backstage, and I went over and the guy in front of me, I recognized, I didn't know who he was, but I'd seen him play earlier, and it was Verlin. And we started talking, and I'd heard he was telling stories about hanging out with Guy Clark. And when we did this interview, I said, Hey, I'd love to talk to you about Guy Clark, you know, and uh we got on the tailgate of his truck and we were drinking a beer together, and he started telling me he was the last he was the person that was with Guy Clark when he died. And he he was like his best buddy. So Guy was on his deathbed, and Verlin went to visit him, and he was in hospice at that point, Guy was, and the hospice nurse went home for the evening, and she said, If anything happens, this is how you give him his morphine. And sure enough, right after she left, he started having the deep gasp gasp of breath. And Verlin gave him um the morphine and you know, held his hand until he passed. And in his words, sent him on his last road trip. Uh so that and that was highly emotional to hear that story. And the other one, just off the top of my head, was interviewing Winona Judd about her mom. Um I didn't think she wanted to talk about it, and I didn't want to pry, but she brought it up, uh, kind of. Uh I, you know, la I think this was like two years ago or a year or so ago. She was in Montana, and it was the first tour that she had done without her mom. Like big, you know, tour doing all the Judd hits. And I had asked her about, you know, what was it like to do this kind of lap around the country in the, you know, the year after your year or so after your mom had passed, and to see all this love that the fans are showing you in this time of grief. And she went into this whole thing about her mom and and just how incredible it's been for her to kind of you know transcend the grief and circle back to what she loves, which is being on stage. And that was just incredible. Like, I'm in the backwoods of Montana sitting with Minona Judd, and she's telling me this stuff. But a lot of times, like those emotional things happen because I'm I'm asking them a lot of intrinsic questions. I I I like to ask more existential questions about art and life and love and music and pain, grief. So a lot of my questions circle around like what it is to be a human, and so happily, a lot of times, and make a connection, and those connections create a lot of very emotional conversations, which I love because you're making a real connection with somebody that's opening up to you on that level.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Yeah, and that's what I love about your writing too, is that you can tell that you either really love that artist and respect their music, or you've kind of like become their friend in that moment, you know. And I know that's how I felt about you the first time that we ever met. It was like, you know, Brad's telling me, Oh, you gotta meet this guy, Garrett, and you're gonna love him and he's awesome. I'm like, yeah, we'll see about that. Because you know me, I'm a pretty cynical person. And I was like, sure, okay. And then you like walk into this festival or wherever it was that we were, and you're like just loud and boisterous. I was like, all right, that's that's my kind of people right here.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

So likewise, likewise.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah, I can see why musicians feel comfortable, like almost feeling like that you're an old friend, that they can just kind of talk to you. And that's a really good quality to have, I feel like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Um that's and that's what you know that parlays itself into those uh relationships because a lot, some of these artists, like I said, I've been interviewing for you know 10, 15, 20 years, like Peter Rowan, Green Sky Bluegrass, String Dusters, uh Future Birds, Shovels and Rope, those are bands I've been talking to for a long time. So when you do cross paths with them, there's a lot of camaraderie and solidarity and uh a lot of um respect, mutual respect.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Yeah, for sure. Do you feel like um the Americana scene has changed a lot since you first started covering it?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yeah, uh, it's exploded. You know, Americana, what's so weird is like the you know, the the term's been around at least 30 years at this point. It wasn't really around in the 70s or 80s, they just called it folk rock. But you know, I was thinking about it the other day, like like when you think about Cheryl Crow, like they didn't know what the hell where the hell to place her. I remember with mainstream radio, like was she country, was she rock? I mean, I guess now she'd be considered Americana with the early stuff, you know, like she had a top five album with pedal steel on it in the 90s, you know, and you think about people like Hootie and the Blowfish, would kind of be considered country music now, yeah. Uh but it's been interesting to see how much it's exploded because back in the day it was more of a catch-all, you know, a lot of labels would just throw you into America. I remember it was such a buzzword for journalists to use, just they didn't know how where to place you, so they just call you an Americana act. But I think it's become more defined now. I think it's become where the real country music is, in my opinion. Uh, you know, country has always been, you know, pop. When you think about the idea of what is pop, pop means popular. So I mean, you know, in the 1950s, Hank Williams was country music, but he was also a pop artist because he was the most popular thing on the radio. But, you know, when you look at the bro country movement and all that stuff, I mean, that's pop. It's almost hip-hop in some I know. But I look at Americana now as more of like the the real refuge for actual country music. Um, you know, there's obviously you got your blues adjacent artist and your rock adjacent artist. Like I look at somebody like Marty Stewart, that's Americana, or like Lucinda Williams, and um, and then there's things that are adjacent, you know. Like I mean, where do you place Jason Isabel? Like he's yeah, he's a singer songwriter that has a rock, badass rock band. Like, where do you place Brandy Carlisle, you know? Yeah, but I I find what's so cool is I think it's it used to be like um the kitchen sink genre where they didn't know where to place you, so they called you Americana. But now it's like a badge of honor to be called an Americana artist because there's there's it at least for me, it feels like a more legitimate place for real creativity and artistry. Like, you know, what mainstream radio country, like the vast majority of those people do not write their own songs. Nothing against the songwriters, but I'm saying it's about just the art form. And um, I find that that's like the real bad, it's just interesting because it used to be such a disregarded genre and um or not even taken seriously. Now it's become like the bastion of real American music, of real songwriters, of real people that play instruments that are really good at their craft are now elevated through that genre. Yeah. Some people, you know, I remember Tyler Tilders kind of gave that speech where he said he was in purgatory being called an Americana artist. But um, I do look at it as the place where like the real deal is happening, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

But so because of your experience interviewing people, being on the road, I mean, you've gone to so many concerts, so many festivals, and I know that music for me, just being a performer, it's changed so much. The industry has changed so much. And how do you feel as a writer and as a music fan about this like AI movement that's going on?

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Well, um, so the perfect example I was thinking about this the other day. Uh, AI could not be Todd Snyder. AI can't be Jason Isbell, AI cannot be Brandy Carlisle. Um, I've thought about I, you know, it's nuts what's what's already happened with AI. It's scary, it's very scary. Uh, I'm not I'm talking even beyond artistic stuff, I'm talking about like worldwide implications, it's scary. Um, as a journalist, it's scary, you know, because what is a real video anymore? And you know, how do you vet these things? But um, but to the point on the creative side of of the the coin there, I'm not concerned about it in terms of the importance of live music and connection. Uh yeah, AI can write songs and AI can write beats and whatever, but at the end of the day, I want to see a human being in person doing something and talking about their own personal experience because AI doesn't have the intricacies of a Jason Isbell song or a Todd Snyder song. AI is not that smart, and I'll always stand by it, even though it's a genius operation, it does not have the nuances that I love in artistry, and I think that there's gonna be more of a pushback against it. People that are realizing how sacred live music is now. People are realizing how how sacred um certain forms of music. Like I think that there's a big reason why Billy Strings has exploded in the arena level. He's the first bluegrass artist to ever hit that level, and we've never seen something like that in the bluegrass world. And I think that there's subconsciously a lot of meta reasons, a pushback against AI, uh, post-pandemic world, you know, during the shutdown, that was the highest sales figures of acoustic instruments was during the shutdown in the history of whatever retail.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

And you think about why is it that this kid is connecting with so many people? Well, it's it's it's a voice, it's an instrument, and it's human connection. Wood, wire, and wisdom is what I always say about what he's up to. And I think that people are running towards him, whether they realize it or not, because it's human and it's real, and we are desperately trying to hold on to those things as the rest of the world is becoming a blur of appearance versus reality.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

So I'm a cautious optimist, you know. AI is gonna screw up a lot of stuff, it already has, but I do believe back to my original point, AI could not be Todd Snyder. And that's my example because that man was so incredible and so beautiful and so unique that you cannot replicate that. It's just this human that existed, and there's gonna be other humans that exist moving forward that are just as outlandish and beautiful as he was, and uh, those are the people I'm gonna gravitate towards, right? You know, and um, and I know you're probably in the same boat, like yeah, it's seeing somebody offer up personal truths face to face, as long as that exists, I'm always gonna support it, and I don't think it can ever be replaced. I don't think I would ever want it to be replaced. Um, but I think the the pushback's gonna keep happening, it's already happening, but I'm seeing certain things of like people really trying to preserve the sacred nature of live music and artistry. And it's and the fact that we're everybody's having this conversation in the music industry, the fact that we're all talking about it and showing alliance and solidarity is a great thing. The pop world is already, even before AI, the pop world was already that generic thing. Um, I don't think you can replace those talents ever. You can't. Like that the the Jason Isbells and the Brandy Carlisle's of the world, those people will continue to emerge. And I think it might encourage people to do it, uh, to have more of those people because it's gonna be more of a a commodity of a premium to have that experience. So so there will, you know, to have those people, I think they're gonna be cherished even more.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Yeah, it's interesting too that you bring that up because you know, you met me when I was doing original music, and we were trying to play to anybody who would listen. And one of the biggest reasons why I started the tribute band was because I just felt like we were spinning our wheels so much and people just didn't care. But then you have the tribute band, and people comment and say, Well, why don't you write your own music? It's like I did, and none of you cared at all. But that was one of the things that I wanted to bring into rumors was like, look, if I have to get up here and pretend like I'm Stevie Knicks, I have to be myself.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

100%.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

A lot of myself and the things that I've gone through are very parallel to her life as well. And I felt this like deep kinship with her, even like outside of just being a fan of her music. And that was just such a big thing for me. Was like, I wanted to make sure that people knew if you're coming to our show, you're not just gonna hear Fleetwood Mac songs, you're gonna feel like you belong here and like you are wanted in this space, and we're all celebrating this music together. And when that started to change, that was one of the biggest reasons why I was like, I have to get out of here. Because now we're doing everything by we have to have certain media out at a certain time of day, and that your booking agent is asking for this kind of response on an interview, and it's like you can't be yourself anymore. And I'm like, look, dude, we're already emulating a band that already exists. Can we can we just please be ourselves? And it was like a problem, and so that was honestly one of the biggest reasons why I was like, I don't want to do a tribute band anymore and have that be like the only thing that I'm doing. I have zero issues. Like, I've got a bunch of friends right now who are like, I've got this project. I feel like you would be perfect for the voice for this person. Um, and it's like a genre instead of like an actual band. And I hate it because I have so many friends that that do the tribute band thing. I feel like that bubble is gonna burst really, really soon because I feel like people, now that we're five years out of the pandemic, I feel like people really are yearning for that nostalgia, but let's see the nostalgia that still exists. Like Gin Blossoms and Sister Hazel are like back on these huge tours and um you know blues traveler, and they're all like all these 90s guys are like out there doing these big tours now.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

They're selling, they're selling.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

I just they're selling it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

I'm working on a piece on Our Lady Peace right now, and um I went and saw them. That the yeah, I just saw the gym blossoms. Who did I see recently? The wallflowers. They're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Oh, they're so great.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

They're doing, I mean, they they've always been around, but like it feels like it's elevated in the last couple of years. And gym blossoms I've seen a couple times, they were fantastic. And then you see these bands that have this like reinvigorated um sense of self. Like, I was down in Orlando, Florida, and they had a sellout of 1200 people. They're a band from Toronto from the 90s, and there was 1200 people sold out in Orlando, and they've been selling out their whole tour, and the music's great. And I and I this is exactly to your point because I feel like there's a reason why that that that era is coming up, is that it's really reminding people of how great that time was when we didn't have to deal with AI bullshit or um you know, machines running and everything. Like these guys wrote really great songs, and these bands are coming back. Like it's so weird, it's so cool, but it's also like surreal for me because when I go to the shows now, you know, I'm a kid of the 90s and uh everybody's got gray hair, and I'm like, oh, there's a lot of old people here.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Yeah, it's like why are these people so old at the beginning? But then I'm like, I'm old.

unknown 42:03

Oh crap.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

I know that's happened to me a couple of times. Like now that I've kind of been off from touring, it's like gone to shows and looked around and been like, damn, dude, what are my parents' age people doing here? And then I'm like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah, when I was at the wall player show, the average age was probably 55.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

And I was like, wow. And then I was like, oh, wait a second, it's been 30 years since they came out, so these people were in their mid-20s, but well, of course, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

It may it makes sense from there. Um, so I kind of want to dive into the fun stuff.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Um, I want to know what is the best concert that you've ever covered, just off the top of your head.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Oh man. Um well, the best concert I ever covered. Man, that's a tough one. Probably well, I guess festivals is where all the chaotic stuff happens, but um, you might want to give me a second. Are you gonna be editing all this?

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Okay, perfect. I'll look at my display.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

I'm gonna leave this in though, because it's kind of fun.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

What is oh man, uh I the Peter Rona, Peter Rowan Old and the Way tribute with that all-star cast was pretty wild at the Ryman a couple years ago. It was Billy Strings, um Dave Rollins, Gillian Welch, and Dan Auerbach was there. Uh he's a big bluegrass freak. And um I'm trying to think probably festivals is usually, especially with the Rolling Stones stuff. Um oh, I did I guess this goes way back. I covered one of Levon Helm's last midnight rambles before he died. That was crazy.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Was being in his house, you know, and uh he was so beautiful and just wandering around his. Property, like you're like literally in using the I remember being like, I'm peeing in Lee Von Helm's bathroom, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 44:06

In the toilet, obviously, but like just you know, go wherever you want.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

But I think about those shows, um special shows of people that I loved watching but before they had passed in hindsight. You know, I remember the like the last time I saw uh Jeff Austin play, you know, and I think about the last time I saw Scott Wyland from STP play and writing about that and interviewing those guys. But on the bigger side of things, uh probably the concert for Carolina was one of the craziest ones because it meant a lot to me because of Hurricane Helene. But it was crazy. It was Billy Strings, James Taylor, Cheryl Crow, Luke Combs, and uh I forget who else was in there. Eric Church. That I mean, that was like 90,000 people in the Bank of America Stadium, and we were they were raising money for Hurricane Helene, and um ended up running around in there doing all that stuff. But um a lot of it's just smaller stuff where you're you're you're seeing bands that are blowing up. I remember one of the first shows 49 Winchester did outside of where they are from in rural southwestern Virginia, I was at. And the only reason I was there was my friend, his band was opening for them. It was like a Tuesday night, and there was nobody there. And the only people in the crowd was uh the opening band and myself. There was like six people on stage and five of us in the audience, and they just you know did their thing. And I remember being like, Who the hell are you guys? I remember walking up to them and being like, Who who in the hell are you guys? Where are you from? And they're like, Oh, you know, it's one of our first shows outside of Virginia, and you know, we're just trying our thing. I'm like, No, you guys are gonna be huge. Um, and I felt the same way the first time I saw the Red Clay Strays. I saw them in a dive bar in Montana. They were still packing up their own gear in their little shady van, and they did their thing. There might have been a hundred people there, but they were all late night for the under the big sky festival. Most of the people didn't know who they were that were in there.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

And they blew up fast.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

That was probably the fastest trajectory I've ever seen of any band, including Tyler Childers, including Sierra Farrell, and including Billy Strings. Red Clay, like I said, I saw them. This was October of um like 23. Or um, I'm sorry, the summer of 23 when I was at Under the Big Sky summer of 24. I was at Under the Big Sky. And then they came through in uh that fall and played the Grey Eagle, and at they sold that out. That was like 350, 400 people, and then they came back to Asheville with within six months and sold out Asheville Yards, which was 4,500. So they went from 100 to 450 to 4,500 in like eight months.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

And then, and that was Asheville, like that's a mid-market, and you have 4,500 people show up, and then you know, now they're selling out Bridgestone Arena.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah, I'll I'll put it to you this way. So my husband worked how we met is he worked at a venue up in Lexington, Michigan, which is right on Lake Huron. It's about two hours north in the thumb of Michigan, uh, north of Detroit. And he said that the year before he met me, Red Clay Strays came through and played, and there was nobody there. There was like maybe 30 people at this show, no one cared about it, and then all of a sudden they're like blowing up. And I mean, this place only holds like 318 people anyway. And to see it go from that to, I mean, like you were talking about just Asheville alone. If if listeners are familiar with Asheville, to be able to go from the Grey Eagle to Asheville Yards, you're skipping over like three other venues that are mid-level. Like, you know, with rumors, we sold out the orange peel all the time, and we thought that that was like big shit, you know? So it's like to see where they've gone, it's very well deserved. And it kind of like it kind of leads me to my next question because you had mentioned dive bars, and I want to know what your because I love dive bars. There, I gotta find a dive bar in every town that I toured. Like that was my thing. Do you have a favorite?

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Yeah, I got I have a million favorite dive bar. Uh, it is my favorite place in the world, is a dive bar with a good jukebox and a cold cold beer. Um, off the top of my head, my hometown one is probably still my favorite, the monopole. It's a Victorian 1887. It was constructed. It's always been the monopole, it's always been a bar, and it's in my hometown. And if you ever look up the monopole in Plattsburgh, New York, it is one of the coolest old school bars. Two-story Victorian era, the original stained glass, the original, like everything, and it's just a beautiful, shady place. Uh yeah, I think of um Alfredo's in Monterey, California. Uh I went there for the Rebels and Renegades festival several years ago. It's like it's it's this dimly lit, like shady, shady ass Italian restaurant that is like turns into a dive bar nightclub at night. I ended up there with Trampled by Turtles and Howmouth. We all went in there and just got drunk and um we all went together. Like I'm with Halmouth and Trampled by Turtles walking from the festival, going to the dive bar. Um, the Remington in Whitefish, Montana is one of my all-time favorites. Uh, that's where they do a lot of late night stuff for under the big sky. Uh then the Naughty Pine Supper Club, Victor, Idaho. I used to live there. Incredible, incredible place. And uh, let's see, where I am in Asheville, we got the Burger Bar.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

I love Burger Bar. That place is so nice.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

They do not serve burgers, but they know Burger Bar since 19 like 50. And just an amazing, amazing place. And it's I don't know, it's funny because I you know I drive around the country all year, and when I just land somewhere, you find these incredible places. And uh, another one off the top of my head when I was down in Dallas was um Lee Harvey's, it's named after Lee Harvey Oswald, but man, that is what a beautiful dive bar. And anything in Nashville, I mean, I love uh D uh Dino's, yeah, Dino's and D's Lounge. Um, obviously Robert's Western World. Yeah, I mean, that is the icon. That's the last vestige of old school that's held steady on Broadway, thankfully.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

I know. We were just in Nashville a couple weeks ago coming back from a funeral. We drove all the way from Michigan to the panhandle of Florida, and then all the way back up. So we stopped in Nashville on the way down and stopped in Nashville on the way home. And on the way home, we met up with uh my husband's niece. And we're walking around downtown Nashville, and I'm like, I don't recognize this place. Like I essentially grew up there, and it's like where my dad's whole family is from. And we would go there several times a year, every year, and I'm just like, wait, we're on third right now? What this doesn't even look like parking is $42. What is happening? But you get to those little outskirts, and you know, that I love that there are certain places that have stayed the same and they have not changed. And that's something that I feel like as a society we need to hold on to because I don't feel like people respect the dive bar as much as they should, because that's where so many bands get started. Even if there's not a stage, rumors started in a dive bar because we all went and sat, not all, not the people that are in it now, but the people who started the band. We would go to this place called Nyx in Marietta, and it was a Greek restaurant with a tiny little stage where they would have blues music and singer-songwriter nights, and we sat at the bar smoking cigarettes and drinking bourbon, and I was like, you know, it would be fun, and that's where it it came to life, and so it's like people have to stop underestimating the power of the dive bar.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Speaking of Atlanta, uh Claremont Lounge. Yes, I also gotta give a shout out to Trade Winds Lounge in St. Augustine, Florida. And uh now that my memory's been jogged of all those foggy nights and dive bars, uh, the Chevy Chase Inn in Lexington, Kentucky, uh has to be like that's a top five dive bar in America. If you're if y'all listen and ever look it up, Chevy Chase Inn, it's spelled like it sounds, not named after the guy. It's uh a neighborhood in um Lexington, very similar to like Chevy Chase, Maryland. And it is like the best. It's like walking into an old pirate ship. The the whole building's just warped, it's tiny. People get drunk and ride their horses in there and motorcycles. I mean, it's wild. But everything around it has changed because Lexington, like a lot of southern cities, is getting a lot of money and developments are happening. Yeah, and luckily this place is held steady and people support it, and uh highly recommend. But and if you're there, go to the borough, love the borough.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

Oh, yeah. Do you have a band that you wish everyone listened to that's still playing? It just a new band or a band that exists and has existed for a long time, whatever you prefer.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Man, future birds. Um those are my dudes. I think that they put on one of the best live shows anywhere in the country. They have worked so hard to get to where they are today. I remember seeing them, I stumbled across them in 2000 St. Patrick's Day 2010. And I was down there, I was 25 years old, and I was there to interview Dead Confederate, which was T. Hardy Morris' old band. And they opened, they had only been in a band for like six months. They had just gotten out of college at um University of Georgia, and I was blown away. And I've watched them literally go from nothing, no fans, nobody knows who they are, to selling out large-scale venues, and they're only getting bigger and they're only getting better, and they're such good dudes. Yeah, and they put on one of the most fun shows. I just saw some drone footage from the uh show in um Savannah the other day, and they had like a few thousand people out there packing out the wharf just for them. I was like, Bravo, boys. I know that road, and that's one of the things is when you have relationships with these people, you get to see them evolve, and you're so proud of them. You know, like when they get to that level when they're starting to break through. But yeah, future birds are my boys. Um, I mean, there's a lot, there's so much good stuff coming out, man. I can't I can't even keep track of it anymore.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

I know.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Even this, like I we were talking about shows. I remember the first time I saw Steven Wilson Jr., I didn't know who he was. And it was in Phoenix, Arizona, at or Scottsdale. I was the Dreamy Draw Festival. He was on a little side stage, never heard of him. I was walking by him to go see um Lord Huron, and I just hear that voice that's Steven Wilson Jr. Like, you're like, who the hell is that?

SPEAKER_02 55:41

Yeah, what is that?

SPEAKER_00 55:42

I walked over and I just stood there like in awe. And uh went up to him after the show. I'm like, who the hell are you, man? Where'd you come from? You know, and and he's become a friend over the years, which has been really cool. Um, but yeah, it's just there's so much good stuff out there, even the bigger stuff. Like, I love Casey Musgraves' new album, and that's something uh more people need to talk about how how the girls in country music are finally busting through the national level. Lady Wilson and Carter Faith and um Ella Langley and Casey Mushgraves, it's so badass that these women are finally being played on modern country radio because I think it was like one female song or one female song per 10 male songs or something like that was the statistic. And Miranda Limbert's kicking ass and coming back, and um, that's something that I really pay attention to is um how a lot of people are finally being represented on radio. Um that makes me really happy, especially in the country world. Tired of the bro scene.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

Yeah, it's it's played out for sure.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

I'm an LF fella.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Well, it's man, it's so bad. And every now and then I'll get one of those songs stuck in my head, and I'm like, why? What I do not ever listen to this crap. Like, why is it in here?

SPEAKER_00 57:02

Oh, yeah. And I was just looking through like what I was listening to on like um my repeat list of stuff. Another one that I really like is uh Angela Autumn. Have you heard of her?

SPEAKER_02 57:13

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Look up the song Electric Lizard. It is like the best earworm. It sticks in your mind. She's starting to blow up. A lot of these singer-songwriters coming out of Nashville. I've been really impressed by Grayson Jenkins and um even a lot of stuff coming out of Asheville. I mean, there's so much good music out there. Everybody's like, oh, this is the worst era of music. Highly disagree. This is the most bountiful, fruitful era of music ever, and there's so much good stuff coming out there.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

Yeah, you just don't know how to find it, or you you're too lazy to is what I always think is I'm like, there's you have the world at your fingertips. There's plenty. I mean, we were talking about AI. You could literally go ask Chad GPT based on everything I've told you about myself. What are some bands that you'd recommend? I mean, and you'll probably end up finding a band that you love. So I'm not encouraging it. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_00 58:06

Well, yeah, but there's people like to to you know, to your point, there's a lot of people that complain to me, like, oh man, I can't get Billy Spring's tickets, I can't get Sarah Farrell tickets. I go, listen, don't get bummed out about that. Why don't you go around the corner to that dive bar or that small venue and go find your new favorite band? Yeah. Because those are the people that need your money, those are the people that need the support and the numbers. And uh those venues need your support too.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

And that's a big, big thing for me is um is seeing about how, you know, oh, I wish I'd seen them land. It's like, well, then go take a chance on a show.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Because you never know who it's gonna be. I tell people all the time, you were talking about the Suwanee um festival down in Florida. My friends are the Ain' Sisters, and I have watched them go from playing to no one at the Star Bar in Atlanta to another great dive, to playing these huge stages with really well-known artists, and then like they were the unofficial after party for Billy Strings when he played State Bar Marina in Atlanta, and it was just so cool. Like, you saying that about you know, go to the dive bar across the street from the venue.

SPEAKER_00 59:22

That's where you're gonna see it's so that's where I go fishing, that's where I go fishing for stories because that's why I'm able to come across these people so early on because I'm actively looking and talking to people like who are you checking out? Who you who this who that? So, and to that point, support your local venues because they are hurting right now. Everybody's hurting, but oh, that's a big one right now. Buy advanced tickets. I mean, they're the blue dot thing's real, man. There's a I have a lot of friends that own venues, and people are waiting to the last. I get it, it's tight, money's tight. But if you are gonna go to a show and you really, really think you're gonna go, just buy that ticket so the venue feels more comfortable with the rollout and the artist feels more comfortable because I'm seeing a lot of people uh canceling shows because advanced ticket sales aren't happening. And that's such a bummer. It's like support support independent artists, support independent venues, and just run around and listen to stuff, pay attention, dig a little deeper, put uh whatever genre you listen to, put it on, shuffle on on whatever you have, you know, and and uh it's so fun. And share playlists with other people. That's another one that you know I've learned a lot of stuff from people, and it's just there's so much out there, and I love it. And everybody's creating beautiful music, and uh, I support them all. And that's my thing. I always want to be a Trojan horse with Rolling Stone. I wanna once they get to the arena level, they don't need me anymore. So I I'm still that guy that's driving around, popping into dye bars and finding people and being like, wow, you're really good. We should do a story on you. And I actively will do that because I want to uplift those people because I I believe in what they're doing and I love their music. Yeah, you gotta support them.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

Yeah, absolutely. So, do you have three words that describe where you're at in life right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

Um overwhelmed, uh grateful, and um curious. I guess I say curious as in curious what the next steps are gonna be moving forward. There's a lot of things that are shifting around uh in in my life with what the landscape might look like. You know, I'm at a juncture now where uh a lot of the dreams I've worked really hard to get to junctures and milestones are starting to happen. You know, the dream was Rolling Stone, and the other dream was to write books, and now I just signed a book deal, so I'm working on a book right now, uh Modern Take on Bluegrass Music, and I have to give them a manuscript by January 1st. So I'm balancing, running all the stuff with the newspaper. I mean, we have 16 travel magazines underneath the newspaper, and I'm in charge of all those, and then the Rolling Stone stuff, and then I do work with American Songwriter, and um I do work with Western AF because they have a uh journalism arm now called the Western Dispatch. So I'm doing stuff with them under there, and then the book stuff. So overwhelmed by the schedule, but I always tell people, and I think to myself, like, I'm at a juncture where I would have killed to be at this point when I started out. So always have that gratitude of, you know, think about where you are right now and what yourself 10 years ago would have thought. Like where you are right now is where you wish you could have been 10 years ago. So I always try to keep that in mind when I get stressed out or overwhelmed that I'm grateful I'm stressed out that there's a lot of work because I remember those days where there wasn't a lot of work and scraping by, and I'm grateful for um having friends like yourself where we're all doing cool stuff, you know, and and putting ourselves out there more and and then curious to what the next step is. You know, I turned 40, I'm 41 now, but when I turned 40 last year, um I remember talking to my therapist. I had to go to one, I lost my girlfriend, and I lost most of my stuff in the flood. She's she's alive, she's alive, but I mean like we didn't really survive it emotionally. But so I remember my therapist saying, you know, what do you want the next instead of being like, oh man, I'm 40, she said, What you know, what do you want the next 10 years of your life to look like? And I've been looking at that more and more introspectively of finding balance in career, finding balance in my personal life, uh, you know, taking care of myself, and um just being open to the possibilities of whatever tomorrow is gonna bring. And I think uh and be kind. Kindness breeds kindness, yeah. And we need more of that. We need more people creating art, we need more people opening themselves up to everybody else and and not shutting down or disappearing or um avoiding, you know. Everybody's so afraid to talk to every everybody anymore, and I I miss face-to-face conversation, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Yeah, don't isolate, you know. It's I I live in the middle of nowhere, and there's a thousand people that live here year-round, but I've made more friends here than I've made in the last 10 years, living in a major city and being on the road and you know, starting this wildflower business that I have. I have nothing growing at all, like everything has just been planted, and people stop by all the time and they're like, We can't wait to see what pops up. And and that's the thing, is then you go, okay, so what do you do? And just the other day, met this couple, she's a writer, and then her husband runs a venue in Grand Rapids.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

I look at it as like everybody's got an an internal antenna, and some people have a honed antenna, and some people clamp down on their antenna. And I've always had an antenna that is out there trying to pick up signals and open to energy, open to people, and you know, good, bad, and the ugly sometimes that you attract, but whatever it is that you radiate is what you pull in. So if you're putting out that beautiful vibe, the beautiful vibe comes back to you. If you're a negative person, you would tend to attract negativity. And um, so I just tell people like, you know, not to get too meta on people, but like we're in a weird time right now, and I think we really need to connect with other people and reach out and show love and show kindness and selflessness. Like, one of my favorite quotes ever is a Kerouac quote that he said, practice charity without being aware of the meaning of the word. Uh, just like do good things to do good things. And and I believe that whatever I can do in my backyard and whatever you can do in your backyard and everybody else, it adds up to something. I believe in that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

So tell the people where they can find you, where they can read your articles, and you know, this book that you've got coming out. Like, tell us all about that, and then we'll say goodbye and wish you good luck in your travels.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

Likewise. Um yeah, I'll be on the road. I'm going up to Maine for a month to work on this book, but it's going to be called High Lonesome Sound. It's a modern Odyssey in the bluegrass music. So it's about the last 15-20 years of my career writing about bluegrass and running around America to coincide with what's going on right now. We're at this very high watermark of the genre. But other than that, smoky mountain news.com, s o k y mountain news.com, Rolling Stone, and uh Instagram, Garrett G-A-R-R-E-T, and then letter K and then Woodward, W O O D W A R D.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

That's right. That's Garrett Woodward, everybody. Good dude, right here.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:50

You too. So good to see you, Kenzie.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:53

It's good to see you too. I'm I'm glad that we were able to reconnect and that I just feel like the the chain of music has kind of just kept using.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:01

That's well intended.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:02

Yeah, right? I did not mean that. The chain will keep us together. You're a good person.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

I'm happy to see, I'm glad to see that smile on your face.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

Thanks, man. It's been a while since I've like genuinely, I was just telling my husband today, like, this is the happiest that I've been in a really, really long time. So I'm really grateful to have had the opportunity to move here. And I mean, I've got this amazing new baby, like there's a whole new human in the world, and he's just this incredibly smiley, loving everywhere we go. He's smiling at every single person that walks by. So it kind of forces me to have conversations with people, and I love that. You know, it's it's awesome. But I hope to see you soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

Yes, most definitely. If I get up there, I might be passing through Michigan on my way to Montana. So I'll reach out.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:53

Let me know because I'm not that far from Grand Rapids, and where we live is amazingly beautiful. So come say hi.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

Love it. I will.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

All right, man. I'm grateful for you. Thanks for talking to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

You have a good rest of your day.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:08

Yeah, man, you too.