The Old Umma Club
Bare-it-all conversations between two "old" Korean-American women who became mothers in their 30s and left their full-time careers to become stay-at-home moms in their “geriatric years." Join their talks about faith, motherhood, marriage, community, and everything in between.
The Old Umma Club
Ep 2: Becoming Stay-At-Home Ummas
In this episode, we have an honest conversation about how we went from working mom to full-time stay-at-home parent, from two different perspectives: One never envisioned she would ever be a mother, let alone a stay-at-home parent. The other always dreamed about having a family and staying at home to raise children. We discuss what the transition was like, what our expectations were, and what the reality is-- and how that's impacted our marriage and parenting.
Reach out to Sophia and Joyce:
Instagram: @theoldummaclub
Email: theoldummaclub@gmail.com
Music credits:
"Life of Riley" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Hey Amaz, welcome to the Old Alma Club. I'm Joyce. And I'm Sophia. We are two friends in Los Angeles who had so many great coffee chats about our love for Jesus being Korean in biracial marriages and having kids mid-career, mid thirties. So we decided to turn it into a podcast. So grab a cup of coffee and
Speaker 2:join our conversations and by aching backs, motherhood, marriage, Jesus, and everything in between.
Speaker 3:You ready? Hannah? Two. Set. Set. Let's go. Let's go.
Hey, Amma, this is Sophia. Before we play this episode, I just wanna warn you that the first two episodes of this season, the sound quality is a little bit clunky because we had some technical issues, but that's all been resolved. So from season one, episode three onwards, the quality's much better. All right. That's all. And on back to the show.
Sophia:Hey ummas, Sophia here. So last episode, we talked about what is an umma, and this episode we're gonna talk about how we both Joyce and I became official full-time parents at home.
Joyce:Mm-hmm.
Sophia:And I think everybody who is a full-time parent, or even I guess as a parent, know that that also means becoming a full-time toilet cleaner. But wiper, dishwasher, laundry folder, cook, cook. Mm-hmm. Driver. Yes. Driver chauffeur. Planner. Mm-hmm. Just house managing, ev, admin, assistant, everything. Scheduler for all of it. We, being a parent means all of those things, but being a full-time parent means that Yes. You do all of those things. Unpaid, unpaid, no. 401k. I would think about that all the time. I'm like my 401k investment. You know, as Korean moms, our kids are going to pay for us. Okay. They are our 4 0 1 Ks, and we will guilt trip them to our graves. I don't know. we're my mom's 401k and she hates it, so I know. We will both ate it. Hate it. Yeah. We're not gonna want it. Yeah. Pretty westernized. Yes. let's get our 401k, our own independent 401k. Anyway, speaking of our non-existent 401k. Yes. Yes. Let's talk about it. Like how did we become stay at home moms? you, Joyce, have been a stay at home mom for longer than I have. Oh yeah, I guess so. Yeah, that's true. And, and I think we need to preface that, number one, I am still shocked to describe myself as a stay at home parent. Yeah. It just, it it is shocking that I never in my life imagined that I will say I'm a stay at home mom.
Joyce:Mm.
Sophia:Whereas for you, I think we talked about this in the last episode, you have always wanted to be a stay at home mother.
Joyce:Mm-hmm.
Sophia:So we come at this from quite different perspectives. Mm-hmm. And I, that, that'd be interesting to share.
Joyce:Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I can start about how I became a stay-at-home parent. So even though I always wanted to be a stay at home parent. I once, I actually started, when I actually, after having Cían, who's my first, after being home about six months, I just felt like I needed to go back to work for the sake of just having a change in activities. And I just noticed I was getting burned out and I was having a hard time being present. So that's at six months was when I went back to work, but I actually had to leave the work time and I went back very minimal, uh, very minimal, like 10 hours a week with hopes of growing more depending on how I could handle it. But after a couple of months, we realized it just wasn't working out. Ian has, uh, for those of you who don't know, Ian has a lot of food allergies and eczema. His is on a mild, occasionally too severe, but he's considered the mid-range. But every time I left to go to work and my mom would watch him. his skin would be absolutely clear'cause I would spend so much time working on trying to get his flareups under control. I would go to work and I was gone for five hours, six hours. And when I would come back home, he'd be head to toe flared up and crying in pain. And then I have to have to spend like the next 24, 48 hours trying to recover. And then I get him like,'cause I work like a Tuesday, Thursday kind of schedule. And so then on when I go back to work the next day, he's like relatively better and stable. I go to work, I come back and he's flared up head to toe screaming and crying in pain again. And it was an entire month of that and like it just was. Uh, detrimental to both Tyler and my, like mental health and just like our parental heart of just like seeing your child screaming and crying in pain. And my mom, you know, she tried to do her best, but unfortunately, her best was aggravating everything. I think she wanted to fight or flight mode as well. And she kind of, she couldn't remember the things I had told her and she just kind of did what she thought was the best thing for him. And she tried, but it would end up causing me to flare up more. I didn't know what was going on and she couldn't tell me. And when she got home she's like, ah, and she would just peace out. So then I couldn't really understand what was happening. So like, it was about a month, a month and a half in, and I think we barely got through like three weeks when I was like, I can't do, we can't do this. And so then I gave my, my work. I am, I have to say goodbye in like in two, three weeks, which was really hard because my company that I worked with, I had been with them since I graduated grad school, so I had been with them since 2013. Uh, so that's, that was how many years? Uh, Kean was 2021. So that was eight and a half years I was with them. Mm-hmm.
Sophia:Uh, and it sounded like you really enjoyed that job. Oh, yeah. Like I, oh, so maybe for the sake of our listeners. Yeah. Joyce is a physical therapist. Yes. So it's not easy to be a physical therapist. Like you need a lot of education. You put in a lot of years of education and a lot of money into your education to become a physical therapist.
Joyce:Yeah. And I'm like one of the rarities of, it's growing now, but uh, I'm considered like one of the 1%'cause I did my graduate school, so I did, I have my doctorate. And then we did a residency.
Sophia:So that's Dr. Joyce for you.
Joyce:Let's not do that. It feels weird, but I do have a doctorate. And then uh, and then I did a residency and then I did a fellowship. So I did a lot of training and the company was beautiful and that I like scaled really quick with them. So I've been like their directors. I sat on their executive board, launched a lot of their like it was just a lot, but we've done a lot with that company and it was just a really hard goodbye.'cause I never thought I was gonna say goodbye fully to the company. And they were gracious enough. We like, they're like, we'll take whatever you can give us. Even if I worked for them two hours a week, they would've been willing to do it. But just what was happening at home was just too much for us. Yeah. Like, and it's, you know, seeing your child in pain is just. And it was hard. And we, I was on crazy elimination diets to try to figure out what's going on with allergies. So it just, we thought it was best. And so it was very abrupt. I didn't have a time of I think this is what has to happen. I'm gonna give myself a year to transition. It was, came home one day and it, his flare up what happened, like the worst we had ever seen it ever. And that's, and he was like just an a like agony and I tired and I were just bawling at that time. Like he know it's like still painful that he can't tolerate anything. So like clothes, he would hurt. He couldn't touch him'cause he was hurting. Like it was just so bad. and that's when we like looked at each other and like we both said, like, I just can't go back to work. And it was God's grace because my mom called me that night and I think it was just God confirming it. My mom called me, she said. I don't think this is a good fit. I don't like seeing my grandson in pain. I don't know what I'm doing and I'm trying my best. So I was like, yeah, I think that's a, I think we're on the same page and I'm gonna transition out.
Sophia:So literally overnight you guys made the decision.
Joyce:Yeah.
Sophia:And there was no discussion over whether it was Tyler or you who had to give up the job that was kind of assumed that it was you?
Joyce:Yeah, I mean,'cause I was already, I was just working barely 10 hours a week anyways. it was more me going back to work to give us a little bit of a financial help. You know, like a covered diapers and, and stuff. But like,
Sophia:so Tyler was, uh, made financially make more than you?
Joyce:Yeah, significantly. Okay. So it was just kind of That made sense? Yeah, it just made sense. so then that, it was overnight and I just told them, and I gave them like two weeks. And then I was out and then I was full-time mom from there on.
Sophia:Wow. Yeah. Uh, one question. You did mention that you always wanted to be a stay at home mother. Mm-hmm. But it seems like after you had Cían, you, your expectations had changed, like you expected yourself to go back to work.
Joyce:Yeah, I didn't want to, but at a certain point I started realizing, like, and I remember I always knew in the back of my head, a good friend of mine, she, I always heard her voice and she said, you're going to need it. She always said like, you're going to need to go back to work. It will be good for you. And I didn't understand and I realized once I started going back, it was so hard. But when I started going back even those few hours, like I was just so much more clear, the clarity. And I think it's just because being at home, there is a level of just groundhog, right? Yep. It over and over and over.'cause you're locked in on your child's schedule and your life is relatively, and it depends. Some kids are great with. Like flexibility and they can, but Ian, with his eczema, like I could not, there was, hi, he was locked in on a very specific sketch'cause like a little bit of lack of sleep would cause a huge flare up. So I was very protective of him. which I think also led a lot to like my mental health, which we can kind of lead into later. But yeah, so like becoming a stay at home mom. And then I also knew something was gonna have to shift, so I had already started talking with another friend of mine of maybe shifting to helping her with like online social media content. And so that's how I got locked in with Dare to Be Active, where like I started doing content for them. So it, it became a different role that I wasn't expecting. But yeah, I started realizing like, oh, I need something else to kind of just almost keep my brain going. Mm. And also like there was almost like I've. Spent so much money and so many years of training, I was like 10, 12 years of training that I was like, I need to do this. Like I have to do something else. And I also would lose a lot of my res, my certifications if I stopped seeing patients. So there was like certain level of like, trying to keep that. And also for me, I, I started realizing I thought I was gonna be a full-time home mom as well once I came in. But God kind of like gave me a little bit of a toll line where when I left my company, my old clients that had my phone number, they all just started panic texting me and they're like, we can't find you anymore. Where are you? And so I think God gave me that like grace of like, I still had like one or two clients that I could touch base where like my brain, and they were always gracious where they would come to my house because I knew them. And I was like, huh, not everybody's coming to my house. But they would come to my house. They would watch Cían for me while I was working with their kids or working with them. So like Cían would be like running around while I'm working with them. Uh, so it worked out in that way. But yeah, my, my role and my view of work also shifted. Yeah. As well as being a comm. Yeah. Stay home parent. So you are the full-time parents, but you also do have part-time work still mm-hmm. Going on. Mm-hmm. Yes. As a physical therapist. And in a way, if you want to still be a physical therapist, you kind of have to continue working. Yeah. You, you kind of have to,'cause the field is changing so constantly. Yeah. And it's such a physical job. It's very hard to like be out of it for a really long time and then suddenly come in the, the entire industry is so different, so you're like, you kind of have to stay in it. But yeah, so that's how I became a full-time. It was just a very abrupt, one of the, one of just like immediate need. And so, you know, I don't think I even got time to think about it until I think I almost. Six months later, like the reality of what happened Hit. Yeah. And then I started grieving. That was when I actually started the grieving process of like having to let go of this identity that I had created for eight and a half years that I was shocked about leaving your identity as like a physical therapist working for this specific company. Yeah.'cause I had worked so hard that I, like it was the majority part of your day. Yeah, it was my entire day. And they knew that, they knew I gave them my heart and soul, like when I was working with them. Uh, and so, so it was like you just had to let go of eight and a half years of investment. Yeah. That I didn't think I was going to have to let go. Uh, yeah. And you had to do that overnight. Overnight, yeah. it was weird. And then, you know, there were opportunities for me to come back, but by then I realized like just the way our family had worked at that point, I was like, I. Don't really have the flexibility actually to come back. So I was like, no, I am gonna be a, I'm locked in with what I'm doing, with what I'm doing, and I'm fine with that too. Yeah, no. What about you?
Sophia:Yeah, I, opposite of you a little different. Yeah. Quite a bit of processing time, So for you, you became a stay at home mom with your first child. For me, with my first child, I was still working mother. Yes. And or amazing working mother Maya, we, we love working mothers. We were, we both were working mothers. I loved being a working mother and I never considered anything else. I had just landed a new job when I realized I was pregnant with Tov, my first son. And this was the job that was just so ideal for me. It was kind of my dream job in that it was a lot of traveling. And it was storytelling. So I'm a, I'm a, I was, I still can. So funny. I still say I am a journalist. You are a journalist. I, well, I don't work as a journalist. You are not doing journalist work. Right. But, uh, I was a journalist and so this job was working for a Christian publication and I was to be their global staff writer. And the conditions of the job was that I would travel around the world and collect stories and write long form. Journalism. Mm-hmm. Which is exactly what I've always wanted to do. Ever since I dreamed of being a journalist, I wanted to travel the world and I wanted to write long form stories. And so this job just miraculously appeared in front of me. I didn't even go looking for it. It just appeared. And so when I accepted it, I thought, and I still think God gave that job to me, and that was exactly where I was supposed to be, exactly where God put me in. There was a sense of just such conviction and assurance in that. Mm-hmm. And then I realized I was pregnant with Tov even before I even started the job. I kind of was very, oh my gosh, how does this work? Like how am I supposed to travel with a little baby? I didn't even know what to expect. I did not know anything about raising babies. I didn't know how to change a diaper. I didn't know anything. So it was a huge learning curve, but I made it work and I was very privileged that we were able to get a nanny. this is everyone's personal decision, but between David and I, my, my husband, we just did not feel very comfortable with sending a young child. to a daycare. So we did find a nanny and we were able to make that work, but it was really hard. Because I was still, breastfeeding mm-hmm. And troubling while breastfeeding, and then being on a plane
Joyce:mm-hmm.
Sophia:For 9, 10, 11 hours. And I'm gonna just, she's not even mentioning she's gone to some intense places and she still took her pump. And I was like, how do you do that? It was, it was hard. Yeah. I screwed up and got a pump that needs to be plugged in. This is very stupid of me. So I could not pump on the plane. And I remember on the plane, I, I needed to express pump. Right. Yeah. It takes whatever. I couldn't sleep. and then every time. the person who sat next to me was a man I was crushing with all my heart. It's like, oh, why does it have to be a man? Because he just feels a little bit more awkward. Awkward, yes. I feel a woman would be more, they'll be more understanding or whatever, but, but it's also just, we, we have the same body parts. Exactly. Exactly. It's not weird. Yeah. Yeah. So, but it turned out that all my seat mates were Oh, for every single flight women. Dang. And I always tried to make sure that the middle seat was not, yeah. Was open, but someone always sat there. Anyway, and also like long drives, like all of that was very hard, making it happen. And then coming back home from a long travel and I'm really exhausted and jetlagged and just tired. But then my husband had to man the fort without a son. So coming back home. I'm tired, but then my husband's also tired and he's like, here's to bye. he's like, I have enough baby time. Right. And so it was hard on our marriage because I had resentment.
Joyce:Mm-hmm.
Sophia:But then on David's side of things, he was also really tired from work, but then also full time solo parenting. Yeah. And he had every right to be expecting some relief when I came back home. Right. But then I also felt like I needed some relief time to just recuperate from a long trouble. Right. It was hard, but we made it work. And then I found out I was pregnant with my second our daughter Woori, and that's when I. Number one, the very short of it is just that financially aid did not make sense.
Joyce:Mm-hmm.
Sophia:Because when we had our nanny pretty much my entire paycheck went to our nanny. So I wasn't really bringing income to our family. Well, I mean, you were negating Yes. So it was like, as, you know what I mean, you were bringing income to pay for your childcare. Right. But it was definitely more like I chose to work. Yes. And it wasn't like there was a huge financial benefit of me working. Right. Guys, I am a journalist. I know journalists get a lot of hate, but we don't make a lot of money. Okay. We, we are like teachers. You do more than just journalism to make a decent income basically. Yes. So I was essentially choosing to work. So with a second child like, oh. we are now sending Tov to school. And then childcare was gonna be way more than what I was bringing to the house. So it was not really a choice, it was just more this just makes sense. Yeah. but the thing is though, I really wanted a second child. Yes. I remember this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Joyce:Once
Sophia:I had Tov, my eyes opened and my cold heart melted just a little bit, and I was like, I have room in my heart for one more, maybe a couple more. so I really wanted this to happen. Yet at the same time, the reality I knew too was that I probably had to give up my career. Mm-hmm. Because if David gave up his job to be a so Stayat home parent, we would be homeless. my income is not going to support. Our family in California. Yeah. the decision was made for us by the fact that We were expecting a second kid. once I was pregnant and knew I was going to have to give it up. So for the entire nine months of me being pregnant was my mental transition time. because I knew how hard the first child was on a marriage I wanted to make sure that we were prepared as a couple, as a team for this transition.
Joyce:Mm-hmm.
Sophia:So David and I, we met with a marital therapist. Mm-hmm. A Christian marital therapist. For about, I would say about five. Six months. once a week. Yeah. Just to talk through what our expectations are Yeah. For this transition. So smart. Mm-hmm. Yes. And I'm very grateful for that. I do give a lot of credit for that I, I think I was more mentally and emotionally and spiritually ready to transition to be a stay at home mother.
Joyce:Mm. Mm-hmm.
Sophia:Yeah. Yeah.
Joyce:Well, we can like segue into the next part then. So like, how do you feel like, because you had that time of preparation, how do you feel like that transition into becoming a full-time stay at home? Because I remember when you and I were first talking about it, there was a lot of still a level of like, kind of like grieving and processing for you because you love this job. Right. And also, let's be honest, it was nice to like travel and not have a child on you 100%. And you're like, oh, that's gone. Oh, and to be paid for it while you're going. You're like, dang it. I mean, you were also going to like, I remember I was telling Tyler, I was like, I don't, whatever I talk, she's like, oh, I'm just gonna go to this war torn country. I'm like, while you're pumping, she just goes. And I was like, I don't, she seems so nonchalant. Like she just took a breast milk chiller. Like that was like, what? I know. I, I, I had to pump it. There was no way. I know. There was no way you're gone for a Lord. No, there's no way. There was nothing that you couldn't freeze anything. But, so all that to say is like, how did you feel, one, now that you have been a stay at home mother for some time now how do you feel like that transition has gone for you and knowing that you've had that time to kind of process and you were able to take those preparation steps with David too, like how has that been?
Sophia:Yeah, I think it was very, very helpful because I did all the grieving mm-hmm. Before it happened. Mm-hmm. And so by the time Woori came and I resigned from my job I was ready to accept this new role. Yeah. But I don't think though it really hit me. I still don't think it fully hit me because until this episode, I still have not had the chance to when people, you know, in Los Angeles. Yeah. The first thing when you meet someone, it's like, what do you do? I know. I try so hard not to make that the first question. I know, but that is kind of a very natural Yeah. Because it is a majority just make up a majority time of our, our life, life and a day. Right. It's like at least 8, 9, 10 hours Yeah. Of the day that you're spending on your job. So that's a very natural question to ask. And I still have not had the chance to be like, oh yeah, I'm a stay at home mother. Before I could tell them, oh, I'm a journalist. And because being a journalist was not just something I enjoy doing, it was so much of my identity. Yeah. it's not like I intentionally wanted to make that my identity, but because again, like you spend so much of your time, it shapes your personality, right? Mm-hmm. Being a journalist shaped my personality. Mm-hmm. It shaped the way I think about things, the way I approach things. Mm-hmm. it is in a way a major part of who I am. Yeah. And to not have that label anymore. Yeah. It more than grieving it. I think it was just really strange that, oh, I'm not gonna be able to say I'm a journalist anymore. Yeah. And because I had, rejected this traditional female motherhood role for a lot, for long, it just felt so awkward to be like, oh, I, I'm that person now. Yeah. It was a lot of reorienting, reshaping my prejudices. I think I had a lot of prejudices of like, oh, stay at home. Moms are like this. Yeah. And it was very proud of me to have those prejudice. It was also very un feminist of me actually, and also unbiblical
Joyce:for
Sophia:me to have the prejudice and I. Wrestled a lot. I think for me, the main part of the transition was just wrestling with the idea that I will become a stay at home mother and to tear down mm-hmm. Those prejudices.
Joyce:Mm-hmm.
Sophia:And the stereotypes and all of that. So that led, led the, laid the foundation for my transition to become a stay home mother. dWooring our therapy sessions, what was so helpful was that David and I were able to share things that we otherwise might not have shared. Yeah. Because we are so busy. Yeah. Tending to someone else and we just life is busy, right? Yes. And there is very little time for us to go on date nights, but even when we go on date nights, our conversations, we don't have a dirt party helping Right. Steer our conversation. and we don't have that third party where we feel open to just share. There's almost a neutrality when you have a therapist. Exactly.'cause you're talking to that person, you're not talking to your spouse. Mm-hmm. So it feels less threatening for sure. So that you're, you're able to kind of open up a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. So it was very helpful to be able to share my fears Yeah. In this transition and David's fears in this transition. And also what do we need so that yes, it's gonna be challenging, we might not thrive the way we would like to That's just the reality of the situation. Right. But what can we do so that we still have points of connection? Yes. for me, what was very important, what I think I was fearful that. All the parental duties fall upon my shoulders. Yes. And that I am the primary parent and he's the secondary parent. Right. And I absolutely did not want that to happen. Right. I want us to be equal partners. Yes. We might have different duties and responsibilities, and my share of parenting would be, by number of hours larger.
Joyce:Mm-hmm.
Sophia:But at the same time, I still wanted to feel like I had a partner. Not that I am delegating Right. I just wanted us to feel like a team. Yes. And I did not know, how that looked like when I'm a stay at home parent. Mm-hmm. I think when we are both working parents, it felt more logical that Oh, 50 50.
Joyce:Right.
Sophia:But now it's no longer, it can't, it cannot be 50 50. I'm a correct. The full-time stay at home parent. So being able to talk that out, it was very helpful.
Joyce:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's like something Tyler and I even still wrestle through now and that's, it took me a while. I think it took me up until almost like, I think the last six months where I realized our jobs are just different and they both come with very different pros and cons, and I used to hold a lot of resentment of my cons towards Tyler. Mm. You know, I'm like, well, you get to eat lunch whenever you want. Mm-hmm. You get to walk downstairs and eat a bowl of cereal, then walk right back up. Oh. You get to come up, make a hot steaming cup of coffee and go down while it's still hot and Yep. Drink it while it's still hot. You get to schedule a haircut without having to coordinate with anybody else's schedule a doctor's appointment versus me, it's like a freaking, like, I have like six schedules out. You know what I mean? it's like a FBI episode on like, you know, some TV episode and you have all these red lines going on and you're like, there's pin dots. And I'm like, whose schedule can I like move just so I can do this 30 minute appointment? or can I bring a child? And I'm like, oh, my, my first OB appointment I have to bring key in with me. That was fun. Oh, that was fun. But anyways, that's your heart. Oh girl. Bless that NPS heart. Woo. Because key screamed. He was Oh boy. Because it's stranger danger. But yeah. So I think I like had that big struggle. And I think he's only recently that I've kind of come to realize, finally accepted like, this is just what it is as my job. Right? Like, yes, a stay at home mother is like identity in its own way, but it's still a job. Like there are duties and expectations that comes with being a stay at home parent. Mm-hmm. We, how that looks between each marriage is also very, very different. And how that's divvied out. and I think Tyler still, he still kind of wrestles with that. And I think what, what I mean by that is like, I think he still thinks I resent him. Mm-hmm. and so I think he has yet to fully accept that I have accepted. I see that we both have great pros and great cons, and it just is what it is. and so I think that's been really tough on our marriage. I think for us, like it's been hard to find consistent care too. So for us to be able to have that date night stuff. But I think that has been our biggest wrestle. Like for me, I personally, when I transitioned from one to two, like it was a lot of fear. like when I was pregnant with Taigh. I didn't wanna be pregnant. So when I found out I was pregnant with Taigh, there was a lot of emotions that came out. I remember this. Yes. And I spent it with therapy that entire pregnancy because I don't think I ever fully recovered. I've already, I already struggled with depression and PTSD prior to getting pregnant. And then once I became, pregnant, then my PPD morphed and then my depression and PPD like became mixed. And like my bouts of depression started coming up way more frequently. And then with all that we had gone through with Cian, I had a ton of trauma, like, just like a reactive trauma. So all of that key, I had to fear like face going into the second pregnancy. And so I had to do a ton of therapy. We had to do a lot of EMDR. Like a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy stuff just for me to feel somewhat stable. I think the mental health aspect has been like a big struggle of me for being a stay at home mom. And I think part of it is just didn't really get time to like kind of grieve. And then also on top of that, I have realized and have felt a desire to still maintain some level of work. Like I don't have a desire to become a full-time only stayat home parent. Like there has been a part of me that's like, felt like a call or a desire to still maintain some level, like part-time at work. And I felt like that goalpost has just been moved further and further away. Or every time I feel like I'm getting closer to it, it got moved and shifted. And so I had to wrestle a lot with God being like, is this desire just a selfish desire or is this desire mm-hmm. Or is this. What am I, where am I misaligned with you? Because I'm feeling really frustrated by that. But I think some of it is just, it just is situational. but because of that frustration, I think that has definitely come out into our marriage. And our experiences as parenting we're also very simple. Either there was a lot of high anxiety and a lot of stress around Cían. And I'm like alluding to it. I already talked about it earlier, this right now, but it, like, we had eczema, but Cían also had food allergies. And so I wish this upon no one ever, but Cían had an anaphylactic reaction towards my breast milk, and I was already on an elimination diet. So we still to this day have no idea what his true trigger is. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so there was just anxiety, right?'cause you don't actually know what he's truly allergic to. And so we're kind of like going through this. So our marriage was put at a very, very low priority. Because there was so much anxiety about our child and then the fear I had coming in with a second child added to that. Yeah. Think I'm like really thankful to God that like Taigh hasn't shown food allergy stuff. He still has eczema issues, not as severe as Cian. But he's just wild animal. So he more like typical baby strong-willed child issues stuff. Yep. I see. Like struggles. Just diva. He is a diva. Very cute diva. Uh, but he's very cute. Yeah. So I think it was just more of those were kind of like the biggest struggles I had. Like coming into the stay at home mother world was
Sophia:like, no, because like just being a stay at home mother to two young kids is challenging enough. But with kids allergies, that means that your workspace,'cause this is a workspace, your workspace is high anxiety all at the time. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. Like anytime he shows a little bit of reaction, you have to move fast and then you have to be very careful what he touches, you know, everything. You have to be very careful. Yeah. That means the entirety of your day is kind of nerve wracking.
Joyce:Yeah. It's based on fear. And I think that's like what's was really hard and I had to grieve that a lot and I still, we still go through bouts of grieving it and now it's so much better. But yeah, like leaving the house and which doesn't help with PPD and PPA, like PP, anxiety, postpartum anxiety, like leaving the house was Absolutely. And it's, it's much better now because now we know what to do. And there's a little bit of like, we have to like let go. But in those early stages, like it was just absolutely terrifying to leave the house, to do play dates. For someone to touch our child because Ian would break out if someone was wearing just some we've had, it was just so many things. So it was just, there was just so much anxiety and constant, you're on heightened awareness. And even his sleep was still not normal because he would scratch himself really badly through the night. So you're still staring at the monitor and like deciding do we need to Like intervene or not? Like how much blood do we allow before, you know, there have been so many times where he's screamed, woke up, crying, screaming, we run in there and he's just covered in blood.'cause he had scratched himself too bad like so badly. I think it's only just recently that Tyler and I have finally have started finding little ways to put our marriage at a higher end, or even having more bandwidth to be able to say like. Like, Hey, we're together. Yeah. like once Ty was born, those first three, four months, it was already hard because we had gone through some weird health issues. Like a lot of covid, a lot of hand, foot, mouth, a lot of weird, a lot of just back to back things, but, and infections. I mean, my cesarean got infected. It was just insane. But like, our marriage was like, I was contemplating leaving. So it was like we were on very thin ice. Thin ice and by God's grace. And I think therapy and coaching, like we have come so far from that. So thankful. But it took, it's, you know, it's the first couple years, like, and especially if the kids were born exactly 22 years apart. So it's just more of like. We barely, we were just coming out of survival and just now finding a way, and it's still not perfect and we barely get time alone. But I think we are finally at a point now where we're like, as a team. Mm-hmm. We're a team and we're not just fighting each other. And that has been good, but it's taken, like this is a form of encouragement for anybody who feels like they're struggling through their marriage. Like for us, it took us three years, like to get to where we are. Three and a half. Yeah. Three and a half years. And because as children evolve, your marriage evolves and the demands evolve and being a stay at home parent evolves.
Sophia:Yeah. I think being a stay at home parent. Presents itself a different set of challenges to the marriage. Mm-hmm. Being working parents also has its challenges to the marital life. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's crazy in itself. but I think as the stay at home parent, you have no work life balance. Yes. There's no such thing. Yes. Okay. And then there's no end Yes. To your work. Yes. It's continuous, continuous, continuous. Continue, continue, continue. Yes. Right. There's no, oh, let's clock out and let's drive home. Right. And you have a little bit of processing time in that drive home mm-hmm. Of okay. Leave the anxieties, the stresses of work behind. Right. But you don't have to like, turn it off. Yes. There is no turn off. Off. Yeah. So that strains the marriage Yes. Because you are sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked. And you are home, home, home, home, home. And you don't have much left. No. This is a running job between David and I, I don't know if this is good, I'm not recommending this, but once the kids are in bed, David knows not to touch me, not to say hi to me. please do not acknowledge me. here's my corner. I'm going to open a book. I'm gonna read it. I'm gonna have my snack. Yes. Okay. So this is definitely not Marial advice, but David, no, I think that there's smartness into it. We can talk about that. Yeah. Though it becomes a joke because David thinks it's incredibly funny to come and poke me on the site and talk about baseball or talk about the TV show he's watching, but then he doesn't really care to talk to me about it. He just wants to look at my very highly. Irritated face. He's a classic younger guy. Yeah.
Joyce:You should just have a shoe next to you, like a house slipper that you're just always ready to throw it. If he does that, it's just like, it's your, it's your shoe. It's his shoe. If you should put his name Yeah. On the bottom, David.
Sophia:It's when he bothers me. Yeah. Yeah. But exactly. So here's the thing, it's just there's no end to your job when you stay at home. Mother. Yes. Always stay at home parent.
Joyce:Yes. Yes. Tyler and I have gone and have been in arguments'cause he was really offended and he and I can understand. So I have to work on my wording. But like I just told him, I'm like, you don't know what it's like. And yes, he takes on, like right now he's with the kids by himself and that's totally great. And like he's handling it, but it's just different. Also I don't travel. Like he travels for work and so I told him, I was like, you just don't know what it's like. Because the ultimate thing also is that he gets to just be dad for the time he's with the kids. Mm. He's just right. He's not a ma medical, like I, he's also not calling doctors to try to schedule appointments. He's not remembering in his head what medicine, like routine are we in the middle of? He's not in the middle of like all these other things that he has to keep track of. I told him, I was like, you get to just be dad. I was like, yeah, you have all these other rules of being around the kids. I'm like, but you're not. Also working at the same time you're doing that. I'm like, you're not trying to answer emails, you're not answer phone calls, you're not doing any of that. You get to just be Dad. You guys get to go to the playground. You know, you get to do that. also the kids are just different. Like their needs are different when they're with dad. Yeah. Versus when they're with mom. Right. With Oma. and Tyra works at home often, and I'm like, my day is filled with screaming. And he wants to deny it, but it's true. I'm like, you are home. You hear My days are just filled with screaming. So much of a stimulation, so much screaming. I was like, the kids never scream when they're with you. And it's also apa. And apa I think, you know, like biologically, they're different. It's more, it's a more of a play fun relationship. Right. And also they don't see him. For a hundred cajillion hours a day. Like they see me continuously, they don't see him for eight hours of the day and they get a break. And so this's, it's fun, but it's like, you know, he's the apa, the fun apa and also the way we think is different. Like Tyler goes on a walk and he doesn't take any of the medications or anything, and I'm like, you are not gonna, you are not gonna take the meds. He's like, no, why? I'm like, he's like, what is he gonna touch? I'm like, you don't know. Like the level of like the way we think is also different. Like APA thought and thought a's just like, we're gonna go for a walk. And almost like he might touch something and then have an anaphylactic reaction. Why would you not take your Epi P with you?
Sophia:Yeah. So that presents in itself just the challenge of Okay. Actively fighting against resentment. Yes. Constantly. And a lot of this resentment is just born out of how the roles are different. Yes. There shouldn't be a logical reason to resent it, but there is resentment because you are not in my shoes. Yes. sometimes I think as a married couple, we compare ourselves and compete to see who has more stress, who has it harder.
Joyce:Yeah. I could see that. I think for me, we get into fights.'cause I also tell him it's not so much of like a comparison. I think he actually tries to compare his with mine and I'm like, look, I'm not saying that your job is easier. you don't see me saying, hey, I wanna be the full-time financial bearer. Do you ever hear me say, you know what? I go back to work. I'll go back to work babe, and you stay home. I have never once said that because I don't wanna carry the burden of having to bring any income. And constantly look at our bank account Yeah. To make sure we have enough money to feel like be stable in the home. which is wild to me because Tyler is sufficient in that account. But we still struggle at times. that is a huge stress. It's a huge stress. And I told him, I'm like, I don't envy you. but I also don't claim I understand that role. But the thing that irks me the most, and I tell him it peeves me, is when he tries to make it seem like he understands my role and that he's like, I do the same thing. And he has set that verbatim and I was like, oh, oh, the earrings have come off the earring. I'm trying so hard not to cursor. Oh no, we're low better. I'm trying so hard not to curse. And I'm like, I'm like, I am. But I was like, there, there were words that were said, there were words that were said. And a lot of hand gestWooring there were, you know, but I was just like, no, you do not. No. And our jobs are equally difficult, but they are not equal. They're very different. Yeah. And I was like, it's apples and oranges. You do not get to say that what you do as a father is equal to what I do as a mother. Hmm. It's extremely different. And especially because I am a stay at home parent. I think if we both were working, we could probably compare it. It's still gonna be hard'cause the mothers still pick up a lot of burden. Yeah. That's just how much, that's just what happens. Yeah. I was like, but you could a little bit.'cause if we both worked 40 hours a week, then yeah, we're both equally with the same amount of time with the kids. Right. and so I think that's for me where that's when I get like angry and like maybe my resentment kicks in a little bit.'cause I'm like. Then I'm like, no, you don't know. And then I'm like, digging in and he's like, okay, fine. and so that only comes up occasionally and that's when I get really angry. But it took a lot of me of like being able to save, like it took a lot of time and processing and grieving and I think mourning about what I thought I would have as a stay at home mother and what I don't have. Mm-hmm. And then having to come to finally accept like, yeah, I just don't have free time. Like I don't get to get a haircut whenever I want. It takes a lot of maneuvering. Right. Just the simplicity of something like that. once I was finally able to accept the differences, then like that resentment has improved. Yeah. Yeah. but then like yeah, when Tyler like says like, no, I know. I'm like, that's when like the gloves go on for me.
Sophia:One thing for me for dWooring our therapy sessions Yeah. That really hit home for me was this, uh, we would never fully understand what it's like. Mm-hmm. Okay. I would never fully understand what it's like to be the financial breadwinner of the house. Yeah, totally. The stresses of it, the ness of it. I, and, and David expresses it to me all the time. Yeah. And then sometimes I get really annoyed because I feel like he's just whining. Yeah. But that's where I am failing him. Yeah. In that I just get annoyed by him trying to express his stress. Mm-hmm. But dWooring the therapy sessions, one thing that. I really did have to acknowledge and try to practice is to, even if we don't fully understand, to show appreciation. Mm-hmm. To actually verbally Yes. Affirm it. Yes. And I completely admit that's not my strong point. Mm. And I fail David in that a lot. Mm. And I think that's why He's always constantly verbally Yes. Processing his stress to me, I think because he wants me to just say, I hear you. I might not understand completely, but I appreciate all the work you're doing. Yes. And That goes a long way to hear from a spouse. Yes. For having to I appreciate it. Yes. Yes. I, I don't see everything you do. I know there are a lot of things that you do that is invisible to our eyes and does not get a good job. Yeah. Or promotion or benefits. Yes. Yes. But thank you. Yes. And yeah, I think that goes a long way into making being a stay at home mother. just very gratifying.
Joyce:Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's the same thing. It's like I've had to really work on affirming Tyler and I've said it, little bits here and there, but he like really needed for me to like say it. And I told him like, I was like, I also need that back too. we've worked on many years because I'm so bad at verbal affirmations. I was like, of me affirming you. And I told him like, my needs have changed a lot ever since I became a mother. And I think that's also interesting as when you become a stay at home mom, like. The way you receive love and appreciation also shifts 100%, right? before it used to be like, take me out on dates. Now I'm like, I don't wanna leave the house. I don't wanna put on shoes. Are you kidding me? But I like, but I just, I just need you to say, give me a hug and be like, say thank you. Yeah. And I'm like, and that, that is it. That's all I need. Gimme some flowers every once in a while. But that's also nice.
Sophia:No, no flowers for me. They just die. They're useless. I love the flowers. You do love flowers. I do love flowers and jewelry. okay, now I know what you need. Now you tell Tyler, are you listening? We gonna send jewelry and the notes of appreciation. I
Joyce:will say what actually really did help and the kids stinking unveiled my trick is I keep a pile of affirmation cards for Tyler. And every once in a while I'll write a thank you card to him. What, how sweet are you? Before I used to just be like surprised. But then recently the kids have been in my nightstand and they took it all. So Tyler have read it all. Well, Tyler saw that I have like an entire stash of Happy Father's Day cards. I would like, this last was like last for like five years'cause I don't want to go buy them. I was like, and all these, like all these cards and I was like. Yes. This is where they've been covered.
Sophia:You know what? That is very sweet and that is actually great advice. Yeah. But sometimes you just need a pre-made affirmation card when you don't have the words in your brain.
Joyce:Yeah. It's also easier for me to write. Thank you. Me too. You know, I think it's also Asian culture. I know. I can never say it looks like I I love you. Yeah. Shouldn't you just know? I'm thankful. Could you see in my resting B face? Thankful. Could you tell while I'm yelling at you of my frustration of why you can't put your toothbrush back in that one spot? That I clearly appreciate everything you're doing. As I say, don't touch me. Yeah. So that, that has helped a lot in our marriage of like, I just have these cards ready on hand and I'll just write it.'cause sometimes just saying it is really hard and I'll write it and I give it to them.
Sophia:Yeah, that's nice. I just try to do it. Uh, by text. Yeah. I feel like I do express myself better and more beautifully through text. Yes. I don't know, it's just so awkward to look him in the eyes and say, I, I thank you.
Joyce:There's also time to think as you're texting, right? Or Yeah. Yeah. Versus when you're staring at them, you're like, yeah, this is a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure. I'm looking at your eyes. You have expectations, and I'm not gonna hit these expectations, so we're just gonna move on now. You're doing great. Fist bump. Yeah.
Sophia:speaking of marriage, like I think there's a part of me that I have to work on too is I think resentment is always the devil in our Oh. A hundred percent percent. Trying to divide and again, trying to divide Yeah. Actively, because that is Satan's work. Mm-hmm. And like. planting Just this one question or like this one statement in my brain, and then it just become something bigger. Yeah. And it's like a small thing of like, Hey, David gets to grow in his career. Yeah. What are you doing? Huh? Yeah. Where are you? No. and I, it doesn't help that I, I think you touched on this a bit, but being a stay home parent doing all this mundane domestic task, I feel like I'm in a fog. Oh yeah. I have no moments of clarity. Correct. I feel like I have lost 50 IQ points and I used to think that I'm a smart person now. I can honestly say I am dumb. I'm very, very dumb. I, I, that is true. Seriously, there have been moments when like. I'm trying to text a friend, but I forgot her name. Mm-hmm. So I'm just staring into blank space. Like, what, what's her name again? This is not an acquaintance, this is a good friend. So I just like stare into space and then like Yep. because, you're constantly being interrupted. Oh. Off all day day. So I cannot finish a sentence in my thought. Like, I cannot finish a sentence in my brain. I cannot finish a task I'm doing, I'm like doing 50 things at once and then like, oh wait, I need do this. And I go over, do this part. On the way to doing that, I see something that needs to be done. So I start doing that and I'm like, I think I'm developing a DHD at 37 years of age. And, so I, I do feel this sparks of fear. Mm. That I am losing the things that I. Was once proud of, which is my intellect. Mm-hmm. My mental capacity. Mm-hmm. And just my drivenness. I also feel sometimes like as much as I feel like I'm constantly doing something, I also feel like mentally I've gotten lazy as to like, it's hard for me to sit down, want to sit down and think, yeah, I just wanna shut my brain off.
Joyce:But I think that's like, I think where you have to give yourself credit in the sense of like the invisible load is what a lot of people talk about. But I think the thing about being a mother especially is the level of constant brain activity that you're doing. because as much as people say that we can do multi, like we can do dual tasking, multitasking. Just to clarify, multitasking is not parallel activities. Doing things at the parallel time. It's actually your brain's ability to switch between a task uhhuh. And how fast you can do it. And women can do it fast, which is why we are better domestic partners because we can look at a child, make faster decisions between what we need to do while we're able to make these. And so we're able to see a child, see a child, see a child, boom, boom, boom. And our brains can switch back and forth in decision planning. Right. Versus men are very linear and they see one child and it's gonna be that child for a while. But for the most part, and I think what we have to give ourselves credit is like, especially in nowadays parenting, we have so much input that our brains are constantly bouncing between Yeah. Right. We have our child and then we have our text messages, and then we have our emails other, and then we also have other decision making. Yeah. And we have to figure out what's making for food. And then you're making all these decisions. and therefore our brain has now learned to prioritize the needs of our children and the needs of the household task over anything else, and so. But it is also, you don't need to know their friend's name. That's in our phone. Parities. Huh? I'm like, it's, it's a, it's somewhere in the phone. I just need to, I've done that too, and I'm like, I'm just gonna keep scrolling through my contact list until I see a name that looks familiar and I think that's the name I'm looking for. And I'm like, and then I'm like, who are these people? And then, I dunno, like half the people, I'm like, shoot. And then I get distracted.'cause then I start just deleting contacts in my phone. Then I'm like, what was I doing? Why am I in my phone contacts to begin with? Yeah. I should go get,
Sophia:yeah. Sometimes I walk in the room like, what, what, what up? What, what am I here for?
Joyce:Yeah. And I'm like. Because I think it's constantly, we're making constant decisions. Like even walking from here to the, from where we are right now to the bathroom, our brains are still making constant decisions on the way there.
Sophia:Yeah. So here's the thing though. Get fatigue. Your brain is overactive. Yes. But also only active circularly in one part of the brain. And I feel like my other part of the brain, which is the intellectual side, which is the deep thinking side, which I always love doing. Yeah. The creative side Yes. Has gotten, it's just decomposing. I just feel like it's decomposing, it just tired. It's just a little sleep. Yes. It's just, you know it. But also like those are the things need to work out a little more. That brings me a lot of joy. Joy, yes. Or like those are the things that I also feel like God gave that to me. Yes. To cultivate. Yes. That is not being cultivated and. I can't help but feel an anxiety that I'm losing that part of myself. Mm. That as it becomes more and more decomposed at one point, I cannot revive it. I understand that when I want to revive it, it's like all rusty. I understand that corrugated,
Joyce:which is probably true. I'm not gonna sugarcoat that. Mm-hmm. But I think it's a season of life, right? it's not so much like decomposing because I think that's a God-given skill that you have and it's a gift and it's there and you're still tapping into it, even through like your conversations with friends and other things. I think it just goes a little bit more dormant and we're in the thick of it with our current season of life where not only is it just that we're making constant decision fatigue, but we're also. Physically inundated with constant input from children, like constant physical touch, constant vocal input. Mm-hmm. Constant screaming. Oh, that visual mass. Yeah, the visual input of chaos. And so I think your brain doesn't have capacity to do other things that we enjoy it. And I think, and that's hard, But I think with time also just recognizing that like it's more dormant than decomposing. And I think yes, it will be rusty, but once we are no longer in the thick of infant, toddler children and our children have actually shifted and there's more few hours in the day, maybe we get to ourselves, we get to, it's gonna be like riding a bicycle. Like all of our skills are always going, constantly evolving. And I think that's where we are with other,
Sophia:yeah. I think that is something, a good reminder to have. That this is just a season. It's just a season When you're deep in it, though. It doesn't, it feels like forever. It does feel like forever. Yes. But I'm sure moms with older kids can give us that perspective that we need, that this is still a season. A season and, and time passes fast. It just takes, I think for me, a lot of prayer and just fighting against unnecessary fears and anxiety that Satan my p on and turn it into resentment. Yes. And create ultimately a kind of unhealthy and toxic environment for our family. Mm-hmm. Which is the, the last thing we want. Right. But it does take a lot of conscious effort, uh, as a stay at home parent to fight against this. There's very typical challenges. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. This is a good place to mm-hmm. Add. Mm-hmm. So if you, you wanna close us out with the prayer? Yeah. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, thank you so much for just the privilege of being stay at home mothers, Lord, that we can do that, that we can choose to stay at home and take care of our kids, the kids that you have gifted us, Lord God. I just pray for all of us mothers out there who are, might also be stay at home mothers like us, who are fighting against resentment, fighting against discouragement, fighting against anxieties, and fears and overstimulation and exhaustion and all of that. Lord God, help us to feel you in those moments, Lord, to feel your presence and to be, to be able to tap into your unlimited. A resource Lord. Mm-hmm. Give us power, give us strength, give us patience, give us wisdom, and especially give us joy a Lord. Mm-hmm. That it might not change the fact that we are still overstimulated and tired, but even then we can tap into your joy and feel the peace beyond understanding that comes from you. Lord. I pray this for all of our mothers out there who are in a very similar circumstance that we are Lord. Pray that those moments are when we can truly experience who you are. That this is the perfect opportunity to be able to experience and practice what it means to lean on you, even though we may be sucked dry. Thank you, Lord, that we do have that, that we have that resource in you. Thank you, Lord for everything that you are. Thank you for being our good God. Name. Amen. Amen. All right. Alright.
Joyce:Thank you for listening and if you liked what you heard, please hit subscribe. We'll see you guys next time. All right. Bye.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for listening. If you've been liking our episodes, please follow, like, subscribe, or leave us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and feedback. You can find us on Instagram at the old Oma Club. Or reach out to us at the old Amma club@gmail.com. Gotta give a big thank you to Kevin MCL for our music. Until next time, Amma, may the Lord bless you and keep you sane, hydrated, and fulfilled the way only he can.