Ep 4: Being Korean Ummas

Being in a bi-racial marriage can get tricky when it comes to parenting bi-racial kids, especially if your partner comes from a really different cultural background. Joyce & Sophia talk about their childhood being raised by Korean moms and how that impacted their current mothering. 

What are absolutes we want to continue? What do we want to break and not bring with us?

Listen along as we unfold what it means to be an Umma in our own unique ways!

Reach out to Sophia and Joyce:

Instagram: @theoldummaclub

Email: theoldummaclub@gmail.com

Music credits:
"Life of Riley" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Transcript

Speaker: 0:07

Hey Amaz, welcome to the Old Alma Club. I'm Joyce. And I'm Sophia. We are two friends in Los Angeles who had so many great coffee chats about our love for Jesus being Korean in biracial marriages and having kids mid-career, mid thirties. So we decided to turn it into a podcast. So grab a cup of coffee and

Speaker 2: 0:24

join our conversations and by aching backs, motherhood, marriage, Jesus, and everything in between.

Speaker 3: 0:31

You ready? Hannah? Two. Set. Set. Let's go. Let's go.

Sophia: 0:41

Hello Amaz. Welcome to episode four of the Old My Club. Today we are talking about being Korean mothers, having Korean mothers, and being Korean mothers. Mm-hmm. And everything. Koreanness, you know, I think, people who watch Korean dramas have all of this like very stereotypical, exaggerated, dramatic, versions of what a Korean. Mother is like,

Joyce: 1:09

it's a whole like spectrum too. Like on all the, like the Korean dramas lately I've been like, oh, there's quite a wide Oh yeah. Spectrum of mothers lately. Yeah. Are

Sophia: 1:16

you a poor mother or are you a privileged mother? Mm-hmm. Or are you like one of those terrible mothers? Um, yeah. Or are you mother-in-law? Dumb, dumb, dumb. Oh my lord. Yeah. But Joyce and I, if you haven't figured that out already. We are Korean.

Joyce: 1:38

Yes, we are Korean. That's

Sophia: 1:39

why we are the Amma Club. Right. And we both grew up with Ammas. Both of us have taught our children to call us a must. Mm-hmm. So I guess that's, that's one of the pretty Korean thing about us. But yeah. Let's talk about what was the most Korean thing about your mother?

Joyce: 2:03

The most Korean thing about my mom. Is the, this was probably more of like a value system, but like the entitlement she feels upon my life. Oh, you know what, what I mean? You mean the no boundary thing? Yes, the no boundary. I am, and the tagline is, I'm your alah, so I could do it. Oh, that's all, all that needs to be said. I'm your Amma. I'm your Amma. You're lucky that I'm even like this. Do you even know what other ammas are? Like? Other ammas are worse than me. She's like, you are lucky that I am the umma that I am. And I'm like, no, no. Boundaries are healthy. This is not good. I don't want to talk about this with you.

Sophia: 2:44

There's no Korean wolf of boundary. No, there isn't. Hmm. What's the word that you use for like, but that's also like kind of a. Like a new Western kind of concept? Mm, yeah. DMZ.

Joyce: 3:03

That's, yeah. I was like, what's the, what's the word? I wrote that like, oh, that we need, oh, you're talking about DMZ. I was like, we need a militaristic territorial boundary line. Okay. If that's what we need to use. But yeah, that is like, I think the most Korean, because everything else about my mom is like atypical because she's single Korean mom working, and so like her, everything about her is atypical in that sense. But for sure, the most Korean thing is just. No boundaries. The entitlement, you know, I know better, which is fair. She's my Oma, but also I am now almost 40. Like there is a point where you can step back and mm-hmm. You need to, you actually, she does need to step back a little bit.

Sophia: 3:47

Yeah. I think my mother kind of lacks the boundaries too. and it's become even more apparent now that I am a mother, and yes, she will. Make a lot of suggestions. Yes. And unsolicited advice on how to Yes. raise my own kids. Yes. Um, text me, message me like I'll send her a picture and she'd be alarmed by something. So she would call me to tell me not to do this or that. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joyce: 4:17

My mom says, wear to everything. Does, does your mom do that? I'm like, Tyler's gonna work. And he's like, oh, Tyler has to go to New Jersey for whe. Oh God. Oh, that tone. The tone. Yeah. Whe I'm like, I dunno. He has work sick, you know. Don't call yourself If I knew he wouldn't be sick so much. Okay.

Sophia: 4:40

Everything whe I'm like, that is a very Korean thing, you know, like with just one word, you're crazy. Just one word dripping with disapproval and judgment and just that, that tone? Yeah, tone.

Joyce: 4:57

I'm like. It's not, oh, it's where, why do, why is that your first word to everything I say about my life? Like, am I really failing that badly? So, yeah. Does your mom do that? My mom. My mom. Every single time. My

Sophia: 5:14

mother actually does not do that. Oh, what a

Joyce: 5:16

gift. Because it's like, I've like flipped out on my mom's home. I'm like, stop saying that. And she's like, okay.

Sophia: 5:22

Where? And I'm like, all right. Another Korean thing of my mother, the Korean alma poems. Oh yeah, we talked about this, but yes. Oh, like. This is the thing, like the moment you turn about, 50 or maybe even younger than that. You go to the hairdresser and you say, I want to aju up her. And it's just like this really short, kind of like tight curl, very tight, like super nineties or eighties. Mm-hmm. And then, if you're a little bit more stylish, you give it a little bit of a d, a little bit of a highlight, but still that aima type curl. Yeah, with the Barretts,

Joyce: 6:04

my mom never had that, I would say

Sophia: 6:08

because she was a hairdresser.'cause she was a hairdresser, she's up to,

Joyce: 6:11

up to the trend. She had to kind of maintain like a little bit of, and so she also, she was older so she had to like compete against the younger salon. So. I, this is where, where it was atypical. My mom, I swear, was so ya like in elementary school, she'll come pick me up and she's wearing a bodysuit. Oh. With sheer sheer pants.

Sophia: 6:34

Oh my gosh. I love her confidence.

Joyce: 6:35

But, and then like black pop like platform and my mom's like, do you know how good I look? And I was like, do you have to wear that to pick me up? From like elementary school, like I don't want, as a sixth grader, I don't want to stand out with the mom that has that outfit for school pickup. And I'm like, dying. I'm like, oh. Or like, you know, and people like, I'm like,

Sophia: 7:04

yeah. I'm like, no, no. You know what? Then maybe some of the other students were like, wow, your mother is so cool.

Joyce: 7:10

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But yeah, so my mom didn't do the perm. She gave me perms. I had a lot of perms growing up. Did you ever get perms growing up?

Sophia: 7:20

I did, yeah, when I was much younger, but Joyce, you have to send me those pictures of you in a perm. Cannot imagine it. Oh. I have long perms. Did you have the pigtails with the perms? With the, with the little bubble hair ties?

Joyce: 7:35

No, she has that in pigtails, but no perm for that one. Okay. Just pigtails. But she had, I had like long hair and perm and pama, like Jerry Curl, kind of like PAMA going all the way through that. But yeah, I think. What do you feel like was like the other, most Korean thing about your mom? She had the perm.

Sophia: 7:54

She had the perm. Oh. she instilled in me a deathly fear of the sun, which exists to this day and it drives. That is true. You hate the sun, David. Crazy. And it embarrasses him because when we go out for walk in broad daylight, I will wear this, you know, the, the UV hat mm-hmm. That has the wide brim. And then I put an extra cloth over my head because you know, sunlight still gets in from the side.

Joyce: 8:25

I mean, your, your skin is pristine though. Your skin has no wrinkle. No, it does have wrinkles. You just haven't seen it. No, it has laugh line. Those are like normal. It doesn't have a sag. Mine sags. Yours does not have a sag. It's like Right. But

Sophia: 8:40

but it was never about the wrinkles for me when I was growing up. It was really about Oh,

Joyce: 8:47

that's true.

Sophia: 8:49

Yeah. Happy. Oh, so happy, happy, happy, happy. Or the sun? The sun. Like you, you're gonna get a 10. Like as though, that's like, that's like you're gonna get rabies.

Joyce: 9:02

My mom, she didn't put that in me, but I mean, she always tried to put sunblock on me. I think she recognized like I'm an elementary school. There's just like no way to stop it. But she also used it as a way to like blame my father. She's like, Ugh. I'm like,

Sophia: 9:17

wow, thanks mom. Oh, the colorism is so real. Yeah. I don't know how it's like now, but when I was growing up, it was so real because I did this with my Korean friends, um, and I don't think my parents overtly taught me that darker skin is bad. Mm-hmm. But my friends and I would compare skin tones and be like. Who's lighter? Mm. And it's so bad. This is something that, it was just like, who's slider? Oh, I'm prettier because I have a lighter skin. Aha. You went out to the sun. You came back with a sun. And now like, you know, you're darker than me. that was a real thing. Yeah. Like beauty standards were very clear cut. Yes. Light skin is beautiful. And then, one of the. Biggest compliments that Korean mothers could give you and say, oh, oh, your skin is so fair. Yeah. That's like the ultimate compliment, right? Yeah, yeah.

Joyce: 10:13

Yeah. I think my mom, she had accepted the fact,'cause my brothers are brown. They're like dark too. They just tan, just naturally brown or all three of us naturally just have a brown undertone. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like we can. Just be out in the sun in five minutes and we'll just come back like five shades darker. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So my mom, I think she's already, just by that time accepted, like, my kids are gonna be darker skin, but she would still make us wear sun block and she'll make me wear sun block. But my mom, the beauty standard thing for sure is real, except hers, like more divisive, I would say. But it was like. I just remember vividly in elementary school, my mom and her friends would circle me and they would like pinch my face. Oh, in different ways. The nose, the nose and the eyes. And they're like, oh, my mom's like, they're like, her friends would be like, oh, your like daughter's so pretty. And my mom was like, yeah, but I think if we just got her nose up just a little bit, she's like, pinching the bridge of my nose. She's like, if it looks just, she's like, and her friends were like, oh yeah. Yeah. And they would all talk about when they're gonna schedule. My nose job. Oh my Lord. Which I never got.'cause I was like, so by that time I was so sick of it when I was in high school, my mom was like, let's get your nose done before you go to college. And I was like, ah. Like, I was like, I'm so done with this. No. And, and then they would talk about my eyes and like just talk all, they would pinch

Sophia: 11:32

and poke my face. The hyper focus on appearance? Yes. I mean, I think every. Woman cares about the appearance and it's a societal thing, right? Mm-hmm. Appearance is the first thing you see. So it's not like it's only a Korean thing. Mm-hmm. But it's the blatant mm-hmm. Spoken comparisons

Joyce: 11:51

of, of appearance and the normalcy of getting facial work done. You know what I mean? Like, I remember in junior high, all the girls getting like, and it was like a normal thing. Like I'm like. It is still plastic surgery where I was like, we're just 13 years old. Yeah. Why is everyone planning and like everyone judging the level of how good they're like the, the San Paul is? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And like all that stuff and like you San Paul

Sophia: 12:15

is double eyelid all Yeah.

Joyce: 12:17

Like getting the double eyelid, like the double eyelid tape was a huge thing. Oh, growing up? Yes. I don't know if that's still a thing now, but I think people just get surgery now. Mm-hmm. They don't talk, they don't do the tape. They just get surgery done now. But. It is just like,

Sophia: 12:30

but at least, okay, so even if your mother was like, oh no, her, her nose is too flat. I bet she was like, Joyce. No, she never face

Joyce: 12:42

this. This is also a very Korean thing, how small her face was. She's like,

Sophia: 12:50

yeah, Koreans have a fixation with small faces. The smaller the better. Yes. and the second ultimate compliment is if your face is as small as my fist.

Joyce: 13:05

Yeah. I don't, she, I don't think she ever said that about my face. She just talked about what I needed to change, and then she's like, then you'll be good. And I was like, only then, mom. Only then after getting my face completely redone, will I then be good? So glad. I'm so glad. That's all I have to do.

Sophia: 13:24

All right. Another Korean thing about my mother Yes. Is the food. Mm. I don't know if this was like for your mother, but food was. Her way of showing love.

Joyce: 13:34

Yes.

Sophia: 13:35

Um, a hundred

Joyce: 13:36

percent.

Sophia: 13:36

It wasn't until a little later where she was a little bit more overtly talking about, I love you. Or like, like the jeong was more verbal. Mm-hmm. But her biggest way of showing jeong, which is affection in Korean, was, um, food. Mm-hmm. And even till now, the moment she arrives my house. The first thing she does is go to Han Adam h Mart. Mm. And then she comes back with like five loads of groceries. Mm-hmm. And completely stuffs my fridge full of food. And then all day long she's pottering around the kitchen making me a cook. Mm-hmm. And like, you know, all of this like soups for me and chicken soup and all of that. And it is her most. Most favorite way. Mm-hmm. And most tender way of showing love to me mm-hmm. Is by feeding

Joyce: 14:23

me. Yes. Yeah. My mom does that too. Like food. I agree. I totally understand that.'cause even now for me, like as I've become a mother, like there's something so satisfying about seeing my children eat well. Oh yes. And like eating something that you made with like excitement, you know what I mean? You're just like, I'm like. Hmm. That's the sound I like is hearing like crunching and slurping and like silence because their mouths are full. Mm-hmm. You know, and so my mom does the same thing. when she comes over, it's like she'll like try to like. Bring all this pun ton and all this like crying and like, you know, whatever soup that she knows is safe. And I think that's been hard for her.'cause like with Ian's food allergies, I've had to like narrow it down more and more. So she's always like, what can I bring? And I'm like, don't bring anything. And I could tell I. She's stressed out. She's like, don't bring anything, but how else can I show you love? Yeah. I'm like, just, just come over. You can just show love by being present. Yeah. But yeah, for sure. The food, the food is definitely, That's been like, if I look through my childhood, that's always been a constant thing. Mm-hmm. The provision of food, the, the puns. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The obsession with food. Are you eating? Yeah. How much food did you eat? Is it good food? Make sure you're eating this like constant, like over like constant oversight on that. That totally makes sense. What is the one thing, or what is, there's something about the Korean mother way that you feel like you don't wanna carry on?

Sophia: 15:49

That I don't want to carry

Joyce: 15:50

on. Yeah,

Sophia: 15:51

definitely the fixation on the appearance. Yes, because, I still deal with a lot of insecurities about my appearance and I wouldn't blame my parents completely for that. I I think it's just a value system that I, somehow. Latched on because, um, my cousin grew up with us for like 12 years and she doesn't have that. And she grew up with the same family. Yeah, yeah. Family. But somehow for me, um, being beautiful and meeting, meeting this beauty standards became a high value thing for me. when I realized I was gonna have a daughter, that was the first thing that popped into my head.

Joyce: 16:30

Mm.

Sophia: 16:30

I don't ever wanna be like, constantly complimenting her on how beautiful she is. Mm-hmm. Or how her skin looks like, or how her hair looks like, or this dress is so pretty. Mm-hmm. Um, some compliments are great. it's healthy and good, but I don't want that to be. The only compliments. Yes. The only, and like unintentionally make her feel like, oh, being beautiful is the greatest thing.

Joyce: 16:55

Yeah.

Sophia: 16:56

Yeah. And also not criticizing my child on the appearance period. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. even to this day, I think my mother's little comments that she drops without even thinking. Um, affects me so much. and then David has to tell me, oh, you, you can't let what your mother said get to you.'cause I'll have these periods of where David would call it. Um, I feel ugly days. Mm, mm-hmm. And it's usually sparked by a comment from my mother of like one time, um, she called me and she's like, ah, like. Um, so took you Yeah, she said, she's basically said you need to lose a little weight because, you know, I think your arms are getting a little fat. And then like, and then from then on my jaw, I could not look at the mirror without looking at my fat arms. Yes. Um, but I don't, I mean, she's not being cruel or mean, but I think it's so ingrained in her that it's okay. Yes. To comment on my daughter's appearance. Yes.

Joyce: 18:06

Yes. And that she has the right to do it. Yes.

Sophia: 18:07

Because one of the things that my mother would always say was like. Who's gonna tell you this except your umma, right? Only your umma is gonna be brutally honest about your flaws.

Joyce: 18:20

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 18:20

So let how, let me help you help improve you because your friends are not gonna say that.

Joyce: 18:24

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 18:25

Um, yeah. But I think there are ways to do that in a healthy, constructive way, but criticizing the appearance that I can't really change. and also. Creating this arbitrary unbiblical standards of beauty. Yes. for my children, I definitely, that's the curse I want to break.

Joyce: 18:44

Mm mm-hmm.

Sophia: 18:45

But sadly enough, I think I do. Myself need to go through a lot of healing.

Joyce: 18:50

Mm.

Sophia: 18:51

Because one time, I was looking in the mirror and I was like, oh, my, my stomach is a little like protruding. You know, like everything gets a little saggier after you have two kids. Mm-hmm.

Joyce: 19:00

And

Sophia: 19:00

I was kind of like body checking. Mm-hmm. And the URI was right there. Mm-hmm. And I was like, oh no. Mm-hmm. I woke up and I was like, she's still young when she has no idea what I'm doing.

Joyce: 19:12

But she's watching but then she's still watching. Yeah.

Sophia: 19:15

Like. Unconsciously, she's getting an impression from me. Mm-hmm. And when she turns two, when she turns three, I'm still gonna think, oh, she's too young to know that I'm body checking and feeling insecure. But that's something spiritual in there that she will be absorbing. Mm-hmm. That I really do not want to pass on to my kids, especially. Yes. My daughter.

Joyce: 19:37

Yes, I can understand that and relate to that completely. Like I feel, I feel the same with the boys. Like even though I have boys, what I really care about is their perception of a woman. Mm. And I don't want them to think like as me as mom, as their like first encounter of a woman that they're going to love and like have this kind of almost like. Subconscious standard. I don't want them to, to think it's okay for women to talk bad about themselves, to hyper concentrate on their appearance, that they need to exercise and diet so that they can be thin. those are all things that I don't want my boys to see as an important Yeah. Or expected value in a woman. And that I want them to see a woman who is going to embody and love every bit of themselves. And it's hard because I too, like, because of what I grew up with, like my mom constantly evaluating, therefore I constantly evaluate and check myself and I have to like really step back. And If I do it, I always make sure to check or talk about my body when it's just Tyler and me, that we don't have the boys around.'cause I don't want them to think that it's normal for women to talk bad about themselves. Yeah. I make it a point that when I exercise that I want boys to my boys to see like. It is good and normal for a woman to lift heavy weights for a woman to exercise hard. And it's funny because Tyler actually doesn't actually like workout like that. He likes cardio. Mm-hmm. And yoga, riding a bicycle, like that's his thing. Mm-hmm. Lifting weights. He didn't do that until I started dating him. And so I want for them to see like. Oh yeah. Lifting weights, no problem. Like, shouldn't you be doing that? My mom does that all the time. She's been doing that. You know, so I, that's been important to me. And I've had to like check my mother-in-law'cause she talks about her weight and her body in front of the boys often. And I've had to check my mom because my mom makes comments about people's appearances. Ah, yeah. and it's uncomfortable, but it's such a high value for me too that I'll say like, if my mother-in-law mentioned something about her body, then I'm like, yeah, but. I get that Gigi, but also, aren't we so beautiful the way we are? And she's like, oh yeah, yeah. I'm like, yeah. Or my mom will say something, my mom, but she'll say something about someone's appearance and I'll just say, Nope, we're not gonna talk about that. Let's talk about something else. Mm-hmm. And she'll be so all caught off guard, but I'm like, I don't want you to think it's okay. And normal to talk about that in front of the boys. Yeah. I don't want that to be a normal thing for them to think it's normal for women to do that. And they themselves might think about it too.'cause they're still gonna harbor like, was that normal? Should I do that to myself too? So that's been like for sure something on my mind. That I've been working on. I told Tyler too, I was like, you also need to talk with your mom about how that's like a very important value for me and that we need to like not do that. Mm-hmm. Um, but I also have to check myself to not to start that conversation too. So it's on both ends. Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, like another thing that I don't want to carry on is having the no boundaries. Mm. Like for me, that is tough. No boundaries. Yeah. Like I think, I think for me. Is more about emotional boundary that needs to be checked for me because I think in, I don't know if, like in my Korean culture experience, my mom has always felt like she can say whatever she wants about her feelings, even if they are not appropriate to be said in front of your own child. And when I would tell her I'm like. That doesn't make me feel good and like, please don't tell me that. She's like, I'm your mom. I'm allowed to say whatever I wanna say. And like kind of that kind of that thing. Yeah. And I'll think about, I'm like, no, that is not okay. And it created this weird boundaryless thing between us, right. Um, kind of manipulative in certain ways sometimes, but. An unintentional, I think it's just her from what she grew up with. And so she's like, I do the same thing. My mom did the same thing to me. And I understand and obviously it's a little bit more western and more like Americanized in the current parenting culture, but I think for me having just a little bit more boundaries of like, I am my own person. You are your own person. Yeah. My feelings are my feelings. And I've noticed Kian like. Sometimes taking on my feelings. Mm. And I feel so bad'cause he'll like, I'll like get so mad about something with him and I'll see, like, he'll look at me. He's like, I'm sorry, Emma. I'm sorry. It's okay. You don't, I'm sorry that was an accident. And he's doing that just to make me feel better. Mm. And I'm like, no, no. That's not your job. Your job is not to make me feel better. I don't want you to ever feel that. And I'm sorry if that's what you feel. I don't want you to feel like it's your job to make me feel better. Yeah. It's not. Um, and so I think for me that's been very important of like making sure like we have certain things that are boundaried that are important. Yep. And to recognize like. And for me to also recognize like at a certain point he is going to have to be an independent person and I can't come in and be like just feeling like I could say whatever I wanna say, even when he gets married, just saying whatever I wanna say. Doing whatever I wanna do.'cause that's not okay either.

Sophia: 24:56

Yeah.

Joyce: 24:56

Yeah.

Sophia: 24:56

Passing on. Your emotional burdens on your children.

Joyce: 25:00

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also just crossing certain lines. My mom has crossed certain lines and her sisters have okayed it. And I was just like, all of you, all of you in this family, I was like, and all the cousins and all were like, what is happening? We're all like, what is happening? Yeah. And uh. And I, I'm just like, no, I don't wanna do that. Like, I don't wanna do that. I, if I'm gonna do something, it's gonna be between me where it's a conversation. Um, so yeah, I think that's also something that's just like, I don't wanna carry on the privilege, I guess, of saying like, I'm your mom. Yeah. I birthed you. Therefore I have the right to have my foot in your life, all, all throughout your life. And it's like, no. At a certain point, I also have to respect that, especially when you get married. Mm-hmm. We are cleaved. Biblically we are cleaved. Yeah. So I need to respect that. I need to respect the fact that we are cleaved and we are no longer joined in that way. Yeah. Yeah. This is not even

Sophia: 25:57

just

Joyce: 25:57

about

Sophia: 25:57

being Western. Yeah. It's just what's biblical and wise.

Joyce: 26:00

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I think that's been something that I've been like really intentional about and trying to break that. Also the Korean rage, like I'm trying my best not to pass. Pass that Korean rage on. It's been hard.

Sophia: 26:15

You know, my mother is so gentle that, oh girl, she's never really had much of a Korean rage. Yeah. My Korean rage is 100%. My own sin. Yeah. But also my dad, my APA has has

Joyce: 26:30

that rage. Yeah. My mom has like some rage actually growing up though, I never really saw it'cause she worked so much. But my brothers had the rage and I think they got it from my dad. And so I inherited it from my brothers. And I'm just like, and also just like my own lack of control in bad room. My own humanness too. So I'm like, I'm like, I don't want that. I don't want my children to be dysregulated. Yeah. I want them to know how to regulate themselves. Lay on the ground, everyone. I mean, this is on the ground, the, the career

Sophia: 26:58

rage thing. I think it's a topic of itself. We are definitely gonna have an episode just on career rage. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because it deserves its own episode. Mm-hmm.

Joyce: 27:09

Yeah. Mm-hmm. What's one thing that you feel like you wanna carry on though with like koreanness?

Sophia: 27:16

Um, one thing I really appreciate my mother doing is, every Saturday when we were young, she would do hunger hug. Mm.

Joyce: 27:24

So we

Sophia: 27:24

didn't go to a formal hunger hug gu. Yeah. But she would sit us down and she would teach us Ka Mm. And she would, she would teach us Korean. Yeah. Um, I would never have been able to learn to read or write Korean, if not for her. Mm. And, and when I think back to it, I'm like, wow, that was quite the sacrifice. And devotion. Mm-hmm. From her, because Saturdays are precious for mothers, right? Mm-hmm. Especially with kids like you kind of just wanna take the easy way route because you're already busy the whole weekday, and so on the weekends use this one to rest. Um, but my mother took two, three hours of a time, to teach us Korean and I, I, to this day, I really, really appreciate that. Um. I'm so thankful. but at that time though, when I was young, I did not appreciate it. Of course. Yeah. I would complain. I wanna play, I wanna go out and play. I wanna read. Um, but why do I have to sit down here and learn Koreans? But she really created a curriculum and she did it. Mm-hmm. And that's something that I don't know, um, how much I'll be able to teach Korean to my own kids because my Korean isn't that. Great. Your Korean is much better than mine. My Korean is pretty awful. It's, it's still, I don't know. I mean, it's not, it's not good it, um, so I might have to send them to an actual Korean school, but that's one of the things that is important to me now that my kids at least when they go to Korea. They can kind of converse at least a little bit yeah. and the biggest thing for me is that they can communicate with my parents.

Joyce: 28:58

Yes.

Sophia: 28:59

Yeah.

Joyce: 29:00

Yeah. That's been hard. I think, especially watching my mom and Ian lately,'cause English is his dominant language and my mom and Ian used to be like, they used to be tight, so tight, like thick as thieves. And now when she comes over. He tries so hard to play with her and interact with her, but she just doesn't know how to connect in that way. And it breaks my heart.'cause of all the grandkids, she's the closest with mine. Mm-hmm. And she tries so hard to connect with them, but like now that the language component is being a thing, and thankfully Tyler values that too. So he's like trying to whatever, tiny little bit of Korean words he can say. Yeah. Like he does. Or when we were at my mom's house the other day, he was asking like. Oh, like how do you ask for like more watermelon? I'm like, oh hmm. And he's like, okay Ian, let's practice that. And then we like had him walk to my mom and like, which it was so cute.'cause she like giggled.'cause she thought it was so fun like that he used, he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I told dad that too. Yeah. And they're like, oh, it's so cute. At least they're trying.

Sophia: 30:04

Yeah. I do really love that Thailand makes so much of an effort to learn Korean. Yeah, I appreciate that. David has tried. He's not very, um, good with foreign languages. Oh, man. He, he knows APA Oh, yeah. Apa. Mm-hmm. And

Joyce: 30:19

Ama. Mm-hmm. He knows that. He knows Uri. Yeah.

Sophia: 30:22

Another thing is, I don't know, how important it was for you, but it was very important for me that. Tov and Uri will call me Umma. Yes. I didn't really care if they call David dad or apa. Um, but for me that term, UMMA encapsulates all the emotions I feel about my mother. Mm-hmm. Like, mom, mommy, mama, mother just does not capture that. That, that tongue mm-hmm. That feeling of like, that warmth, that, that tenderness, that nurturing just like that, that feeling of like protection and safety, like umma that, just, that word. Probably because I grew up calling my mother Oma. Mm-hmm. And, and just the sound of it just brings these feelings for me. Mm-hmm. So I felt that I would be a little heartbroken if, if tov.

Joyce: 31:22

Started calling me Mommy Kean went through a phase of calling me mama for a while, and it was like nails on a chalkboard for me. I was like, and Tyler would always try to correct him. He's like, who? And like, or like he would call Tyler like daddy, and he's like, who's daddy? He's like, I'm apa, right? And so we would correct it, but then like it was still, I was like, you know, they went through the phase and I, now he's back to Amma and I was like, oh, thank God. I've actually been a little bit more. Stringent on him, like being able to speak or calling all of my brothers and like the family members by their proper Korean

Sophia: 31:52

title. You know what, this is the hard thing of a Korean though. It's like, hun, or, or kapa? Yeah. There's all this like different titles. It's not just one uncle.

Joyce: 32:03

Yeah. But I only do it on our family. Mm-hmm. And I do it because it's like. Korean. I was like, in his mind he'll know. Like, it's like there's only one like consumption. There's only one like DA consumption. Mm-hmm. There's only one Cuomo, which Tyler a, like, he calls Tyler's sister Cuomo. Ah, in Como. Mm-hmm. I also asked her if it was okay'cause I was like. I was like, there's gonna be a ton of aunties in his life. I was like, but there's only gonna be one ole. Yeah. And like that was very special for me, for my niece and nephews to call me Omo. And my brothers were strict about that too, because they're like, yeah, there's gonna be like a ton of emails in their life, but there's only one ole. But yeah, I think it was like that. And also just making it regular for them too. Like just have Korean titles in their name. Mm-hmm. But yeah, the Korean language, trying to maintain that. I think more for the sake of. Being able to speak with my mom and like my dad is really the only real lifeline. Mm-hmm. Um, also, it's also a good skill to have another language in your back pocket, even if it's just purely conversational. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that has probably been, that has been important. And I think the value of family has been very important for me too. Um,'cause our family, especially our family, it's not as tight as it used to be, but we're very tight knit. Um, and so like we all know if you're gonna invite to a family event on my side of the family, it's everybody. It's not just the media family, right? Like in Western culture. And when we say family, it's like just your immediate family. Like it's like. Everyone. And the in-laws, I was like the in-laws of like the parents of my sister-in-laws are all invited. That's, yeah. This is very Korean family, right. Like that is, and that is very important for me is like my boys to like understand the value of family and staying connected to your family and not

Sophia: 33:52

just the nuclear family. Yes. The extended family as well. Extended

Joyce: 33:55

family. Like this is your family. Um, and that has been something that I've been like,'cause Tyler's has a huge family, but they're all kind of disjointed and um. For me, like, yeah. So it's important for me. I'm like, our family is a family. Like that should be important. Yeah.

Sophia: 34:12

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Another thing I would love to pass down, um, we had just talked about the self-sacrifice mm-hmm. Of Korean mothers. I think that is the number one thing I would say about my mother. She was very much of a very self-sacrificial alma.

Joyce: 34:28

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 34:29

when I look back, I was like, she was tired. Mm-hmm. Like even as a child, acquisi sense that she was tired. Mm-hmm. She was constantly tired because she took care of two kids and my brother and I are only 18 months apart and she was a missionary's wife and my father was gone a lot. And she was in a foreign country taking care of two very young kids by herself, not knowing the language. Very different climate, very different food. Um, and I've never really once heard her complain. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She just did her duty. Mm-hmm. and there was no. Entitlement there, there was no self-indulgence there, there was no self repeating there. It was just, this is my duty and I do it. Mm. And there is something very honorable about that. Mm-hmm. I know in, in this today's, um, today's world, we kind of uplift. I mean, we, we love complaining. We love honesty, transparency. we do love to complain. Yes. We bonded about, that's through complaining. Yes. But there's also, I do really respect and admire. Um, the, that side of my mother was, she did things without complaining.

Joyce: 35:44

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 35:44

And it wasn't like a self shaming thing or like a self-censor thing. It was just more, more like, yeah, this is my duty. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. And I think it's food. Food definitely is my way of also showing love to my kids. Mm. Not just the, not the only way, but one of the biggest way. You are a big cooker. Cooker. Cooker.

Joyce: 36:06

I'm a cooker. You're a cooker.

Sophia: 36:10

Yeah. Bigger cooker. But the, the love it. The flip side. It's that my mom ridge comes out when I made this delicious food and tove just refuses to even taste it. Have to literally shove it into his mouth. It's like my sister, I. And then it's like, oh, the, the whole point of me showing love through my foot has been defeated. I'll show you love.

Joyce: 36:42

Okay. I'll show you love. You'll feel this love with this crack in your mouth. Oh my gosh. I know. I've been wanting to desire to cook more Korean food, but it's hard one, like where we live, we're nowhere near a Korean market. It's like. We have to go to K-Town or we have to go all the way to Torrance, and it's just like, I'm like South Bay. I'm like, this is very far drive. I'm like, Ugh. And even then I'm like, where do I start? Because my mom, like has always just cooked the food and brought it. And whenever I ask her, it's like classic Korean mom or classic, any mom that cooks like she's, they're like, oh, you just put it in the water and you boil it. I'm like, the hell, what do you mean? And the meal just happens. I was like, that makes no sense. She's like. Well, you know, then they just boil it and I'm like, yeah, you, you know, and then just taste it. And I was like, what, what? But how do I even, but how, but that is how she cooks. Yeah. And I, I'm like, I've watched her like we've tried making together and she's like. You just do a little bit of salt and then she like puts a pinch of salt in and she still had like a teaspoon left her in her hand. She's like, and then she just dumped it in. I was like, what? That made no sense. She didn't wanna throw it out, so she was like, I'll just put the rest of the salt in. I was like, that's not what you just told me. I don't know what to do with this kimchi now. I was like, but,

Sophia: 38:07

but what are, what are some of the foods that's most nostalgic for you that you want to. Pass on to your kids? Oh, it's ku. Okay.

Joyce: 38:16

KU is like

Sophia: 38:16

super

Joyce: 38:17

nostalgic for me. For some reason. You cook

Sophia: 38:18

KU for their birthdays?

Joyce: 38:20

Yes. And like ku, obviously. Mm-hmm. But like my mom also, it's the like. Oh, like Ang and stuff? Yeah,

Sophia: 38:29

Ang is my favorite.

Joyce: 38:29

Yeah. All of that kind of stuff is like super, but on, like all of that is nostalgic, but honestly for me, the most things that are nostalgic is all of her Penton. Oh,

Sophia: 38:39

what kind of Penton?

Joyce: 38:40

She just makes a ton of different kind of kimchi, like the oi kimchi. Oh, I love that. The P kimm tea. And then like, I love GIP tea. Yeah, GIP tea. And then like, I remember one time I was like, ma, is this like, there's this like, have like tanks on it and she's like. Yeah, but it's fine. Don't tell Tyler. And I was like, Tyler's allergic to any kind of fish. Yeah. I was like, oh my. She's like, it's dried. It's dried, anchovies. There's nothing happening there. And I was like, oh my, it's vegan. Yeah, it's just

Sophia: 39:09

anchovies.

Joyce: 39:11

She's like, it's dehydrated. She's like, it's, there's no protein happening. And I'm like, I, I don't know what to do with you. But, and then she makes like, I forget what it's called in Korean, but like the burdock root. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, what is it called again? What it called, you know the brown it Look, I thought it was lotus for the longest time, but it's burdoch.

Sophia: 39:32

What? No, that thing, this is gonna drive me crazy. We'll, we'll look it up after.

Joyce: 39:39

But yeah, so like, like Oliver Penton I think is like the super nostalgic thing and thankfully Tyke loves it. Oh good. Like Ty will like try to like drink all like the kimchi juice, uhhuh and all that stuff. Uh, Ian is a little bit more like, this is stinky and I'm not about it. But, um,

Sophia: 39:55

how often do you cook Korean food at home?

Joyce: 39:58

Never. I don't,

Sophia: 39:59

I, I rarely do it too.

Joyce: 40:01

I have cookbooks, but I just never do it. It's also like, it's Korean. I, I think part of it's, it's so foreign to me'cause I've never done it, so it's like even more like, I may like go to cook and stuff like that, but it's like that's not very hard. You just boil for a very long time.

Sophia: 40:16

Yeah. Usually the most Korean food, TOF gas is when my mother's mm-hmm. Here. Mm-hmm. And I, so I so appreciate that about her. But you know what's so sad? I hate. To meal cook. You hate meal cook. So like when, you know, in Korean on birthdays. Yeah. That's the tradition that you make meal cook because when during postpartum days for a woman, right. She's fed a lot of meal cook because it's supposed to be very nutritious mm-hmm. And healing. Mm-hmm. Um, during postpartum. So like to commemorate your umma. You drink meal, cook mm-hmm. For your birthdays. And my mother will make meal cook for my birthday and I'll get so mad. And I was like, this is my birthday. Why you gimme a meal cook? Like, I hate this. Like, I would rather not be my birthday. Um, and then eventually she, she stopped giving me meal cook.

Joyce: 41:06

Yeah.

Sophia: 41:06

Um, so, but I'm, but funny enough to loves me cook. Oh, thank goodness. Yeah. So I need to, I need to start cooking that because. Just like finding

Joyce: 41:18

the right milk is really hard to find. I think you like just the right and like the soaking process and like you might get like a bad bunch and it like disintegrates too. And so I was like, but this is

Sophia: 41:29

this. I think this is why cream s. Put a, like food is the display of love because there's so much labor that goes into making Korean food.

Joyce: 41:38

Yeah.

Sophia: 41:39

It's not like a stir fry. Right? Yeah. It's like, it's like you have to chop up the radishes, like match steaks, and then you have to like, um, what do you, what do you call it? You have torin it and then there's just so much it, it's also,

Joyce: 41:51

yeah. And it's like multi-day processes. Mm-hmm. It's not just like a one day process. Yeah. Yeah.

Sophia: 41:56

One thing I do wanna do is like, I do want to. I learned to make Kim Tea.

Joyce: 42:02

Yeah. I make Kim doom with my mom once. I was like, I can't do

Sophia: 42:06

this. It is, it is a long process. Yeah. It's, it is a lot of work. It's hot, but still, I think it's worth just like just learning it. You have to gag jungle. Yeah. Yeah. You to get a separate fridge for that.

Joyce: 42:21

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kinzie is a cool thing to like learn to make too. I think for sure. Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 42:27

And I think we are at an age where kids don't, I don't know, maybe kids are not made fun of when they bring Korean food to to school anymore. No, I think kids understand it. It's like cool now. Yeah. Korean food is cool. Yeah. When,

Joyce: 42:39

when, when did this happen? That was, that would've been helpful in elementary school when I was getting like teased from other people. I'm like. And I went to a Korean dominant elementary school and I still got teased by other people. So I was like, they're like, where is the PB and j? Yeah. And I'm like,'cause I have ke up and it tastes better. Oh, ke up so much better. Ke up is so much better. But yes, that is definitely something that would be, learning to make Penton in general will be, I think, also cost efficient. We should do this together sometime. Yeah, we should do it. We'll do it as one of our get together times. Mm-hmm. Anything else? No, I think this is a great place where we can kind of close out and do our prayer. Yeah, if you wanna close us out, Sophia.

Sophia: 43:24

Sure. All right. Heavenly Father, thank you so much for our ahma. Thank you for making them Korean and blessing us with this Korean culture and this heritage Lord. we wanna be thankful for how you've created us.

Joyce: 43:41

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 43:41

And we wanna thank you for the mothers that you've given us, that you've chosen to give us, Lord mm-hmm. That you put. Us in ideal wombs for a reason, and they were the perfect ahma for us, even with all their flaws. Lord and Lord, I just pray for a lot of wisdom and discernment as we raise our own kids, as Korean ahmass. Let us do this all with so much thankfulness, Lord, a lot of thankfulness and joy. Mm-hmm. we bless you and we praise you, Lord. I pray this and just name.

Joyce: 44:08

Amen. Amen.

Speaker 4: 44:10

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