Ep 6: Still Married

Joyce and Sophia talk about marriage...and husbands. They discuss what they expected in marriage, and what the reality was...especially with babies and kids in the picture. Oy. 

Reach out to Sophia and Joyce:

Instagram: @theoldummaclub

Email: theoldummaclub@gmail.com

Music credits:
"Life of Riley" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Transcript

Speaker: 0:02

Hey Amaz, welcome to the Old Alma Club. I'm Joyce. And I'm Sophia. We are two friends in Los Angeles who had so many great coffee chats about our love for Jesus being Korean in biracial marriages and having kids mid-career, mid thirties. So we decided to turn it into a podcast. So grab a cup of coffee and

Speaker 2: 0:19

join our conversations and by aching backs, motherhood, marriage, Jesus, and everything in between.

Speaker 3: 0:26

You ready? Hannah? Two. Set. Set. Let's go. Let's go.

Joyce: 0:36

Hello Amaz. Welcome to episode six of the Ahma Club. Today we're gonna talk about our favorite subject. Our husbands, yes. Just kidding. Marriage. We don't need to talk about our husbands. Just kidding. Well, today's word. Um, so this season currently has been kind of going through the pillars of what we feel like defines the old alma club. And so today, we've talked about our husbands and we've hinted and talked about our marriages, but we thought it would be really important to kind of talk about our marriage and culture putting together. Mm-hmm. Um, so the points to be hitting on is really just what we envisioned before actually getting married. What happened with the actual getting married part, right? Like, what is expectations versus reality? And then did the culture component be an influence? Yeah. And then you throw

Sophia: 1:30

in, children into it. Yeah. And then it becomes a lot more complicated. Radioactive sometimes.

Joyce: 1:40

Alright, so let's get into it. Sophia, tell me, did you ever envision yourself marrying a white man?

Sophia: 1:50

No, because I did not envision myself getting married at all. Yeah. I think from a very young age, I told my parents, I'm not gonna get married and this gonna be single and I'm gonna be an independent strong woman. I don't need no man. that was kind of my attitude. I don't know where I got that from, but yeah, I just did not want to get married. And then eventually, as I got older and all my friends started getting married and then I realized, hmm. All of my friends are gonna, have families and they're not gonna have time for me. So I came up with a solution and that was that I'm just gonna die at 40. Oh, that is not the solution. That was that solution. very, very immature thinking, but it was just like, whatever. my parents just always thought I was just bluffing. Oh, interesting. But then as I got older, my parents were like, yeah, I think you're probably not gonna get married.

Joyce: 2:41

And then you're like, oh, don't tell me what to do,

Sophia: 2:44

parents. Yeah. But then now I'm gonna get married. I don't know. Eventually I realized I'm actually not created, I don't have the gift of singleness or whatever you call it. I don't even know if that term is correct because some people do really long for marriage, but.

Joyce: 3:00

I think some people are, do have the gift of like, yes. They're just, but some people don't. Right. And they are still, and they're single, single, but they are not desiring. I know a lot of women actually who are like, yeah, I'm good. I don't need a husband. I'm fine. Yeah. I know men who like that too. Yeah. And I'm like, that's cool. Like, and it's such a level of security that I was like, I never understood that. But I think that's the difference. Mm. Is like a person who desires

Sophia: 3:28

Correct.

Joyce: 3:29

Partnership and a person who's like, I'm good with my community. Like I'm sufficient. Yeah. And my family and everything else. And I

Sophia: 3:36

thought I was that person.

Joyce: 3:38

Yeah.

Sophia: 3:38

I think I had a, I had a pretty wild image of myself or who I thought I wanted to be or am. Mm-hmm. And then I, I realized I actually am not. Mm. so I realized that I don't have to give the singleness nor do I desire actually to be. Single.

Joyce: 3:58

Mm.

Sophia: 3:59

Um, and there was a period when I did feel very lonely. Yeah. Especially living alone in a studio apartment in Los Angeles. Yeah. Um, there's a

Joyce: 4:09

certain level of hollowness that the apartment has. Right. Right. Yeah.

Sophia: 4:13

So I don't think I had clear defined expectations of marriage.

Joyce: 4:18

Yeah.

Sophia: 4:18

Really. Um, but I did have an image of myself as a very strong, independent woman. Right. He knew he did not want to be a stay-at-home mom. Oh. That, that's for sure.

Joyce: 4:30

That I am not gonna be the stay at home wife. Right. Prototype. Like, that's just not me. I

Sophia: 4:35

mean, I, I had to break a lot of concepts of myself. Yeah. the first concept I had to break was that I don't wanna get married. Yeah. That had to be broken. Yeah. Because I realized that's not true. And then I thought in my midst of loneliness, oh, I guess I do want to get married. But then we're gonna have separate rooms because I need my own space. Mm-hmm. That also got broken. Yes. And then it was, I don't want children. And of course that I think I, as I said, I had all these false images of myself that was based on, I don't know, I don't even know what was, it's, I think pure stubbornness or just like it's on brand. it was an image that I created as a child. Yeah. And then as I got older and matured, that image from a child needed to mature as well. Right. Um, and that was what happened.

Joyce: 5:26

So what about you Joyce? I, so I always grew up in a mostly Korean dominant community. So obviously the crushes end up being like Korean kids, but that's just'cause that's all I hung out with. Those are the people in your vicinity. That was it, right? But I've always had the sense that I'm like, I'm probably gonna end up with someone non Korean. Just because of my personality, my upbringing. As I got older, I dated a couple of Korean guys and I just could not, uh, we could not connect really. Like Yeah. Part of it is just, I have such a strong dominant personality that it overpowered often. and then if like another Korean guy was able to match that, it usually wasn't a healthy match for us. Okay. Like, it just didn't work conflict wise. And then my one ex that's just cemented it for me, that was like, we're not gonna work well together. Korean to Korean was, uh, he was half Korean, half Chinese. Um, his mom, Korean, I didn't deal with a lot of Korean moms. She was like probably the only one that I dealt with in my adulthood. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it was not a good experience as like the girlfriend. Uh, and so, and my mom was even pretty upset about it. Like she was

Sophia: 6:42

with his mom. His mom with his mom. Okay. Yeah.

Joyce: 6:44

I've never seen my mom really worked up like that. But I, it looked like, I think the per, like, metaphorically, if my mom could pull someone's hair, I think she would've pulled her hair. So

Sophia: 6:53

this is like Korean drama level? Yeah. Okay.

Joyce: 6:55

Yeah. It was not, not to that, that level, but it was kind of like in a sense of like, she overpowered me and she kind of like talked over me and like yelled at me and scolded me. And so it was just one of those things where I was like,

Sophia: 7:07

oh, she pushed the boundaries so hard. Yeah. So

Joyce: 7:09

I was like. No, no, no. So, but also my mom, after some years, she was like, yeah, you're right. Like, I've thought about it and just observed you. And she's like, I think you would thrive better in a non Korean marriage.

Sophia: 7:25

But Korean Americans saw

Joyce: 7:28

Korean Americans. Yeah. But then you have the Korean parents who are just, they needed their generation. Yeah. Like writing in more like a Korean American parent. Yeah. and like also our family. all the women on my mom's side are all matriarchal. The woman dominate. Mm. So it just, I think for me, when, like the times that even watched my friends who dated Korean guys, I was like. There was nothing about it that appealed to me. I was like, yeah, I love that kind of relationship. I was like, well that You mean the very traditional relationship? Kind of. And like, I think probably'cause like I grew up with more like Fabi Koreans. Mm-hmm. So it was like kind of like the Fabi Korean relationships, whereas it's like I, y'all and all that stuff. Oh, and then like the matching the, and I was Oh, the

Sophia: 8:09

matching outfit. The matching stuff. All the stuff. And I was just like, chains. Yeah. I hate

Joyce: 8:15

it. I know. Don't tell, don't me wrong. I did it in high school.'cause But that's'cause I only dated a Korean guy. But it was like, I mean like when we matched, it looked like Tupac. Like, I mean it was like a bandana and a hat. Like that's what we matched. Okay. You know what I mean? Like it wasn't like we matched baggy t-shirts and baggy pants. Yeah. it just wasn't me. So I was like, all right. Uh, and then when I got older, I started dating outside of that and I was like, yeah, this feels more natural. It just felt more me and I think also,'cause I grew up with non. Korean traditions, like a lot my brothers raised me. Mm-hmm. So my framework was very American. So it just worked better in that

Sophia: 8:53

way. So basically what you're saying is that you knew not so much the non Korean, but you just needed more of a Americanized culture.

Joyce: 9:01

Yeah. More open western culture, more western culture and more even like a collegial feeling. It's not gonna be like a hierarchal or like a patriarchal Yeah. Like my parents. Yeah. It just, it's not gonna work. Just the way I grew up always. I was like, we didn't do that. so I knew I was gonna be probably with a non Korean guy and I really had to work on my mom to finally get to where I could, where I ended up marrying Tyler because she

Sophia: 9:27

really wanted a Korean guy.

Joyce: 9:29

Yeah. Yeah.

Sophia: 9:31

I think my, my parents would've preferred me to marry a Korean or Chinese guy because Correct. Or Chinese, the ministry isn't Chinese. Mm. Yeah. Mainly it's just my parents. Um, really the language part. Mm. Yeah. It, it's, it's hard's hard. Um, and so it's all the cultural mm-hmm. Differences. Mm-hmm. So they wanna feel comfortable with their son-in-law Yeah. And feel close with their son-in-law. So that's something that,

Joyce: 9:59

yeah.

Sophia: 10:00

still is a little hard.

Joyce: 10:01

Yeah. Yeah. That's the same thing for us too. But thankfully like for us, Tyler really values our kids being able to communicate.'cause I've been very upfront with that too. And I think for Tyler, he values that as well, thankfully. Yeah, I see that. Yeah. So at least that is, um, we're working on it, but But yeah, for the marriage part that, um, okay. So you, getting back to our marriage is you didn't expect. To get married and you had to go through a process of basically like peeling your onion shelves, like I think being more authentic with myself. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, which is beautiful. Yeah. And then, so then you met David Yes. And you guys decided to get married?

Sophia: 10:48

he was my first everything. I had never went on a date before, so he was my first date and then my first boyfriend and I went through a lot of first with him, and I was 29 when I met him. Yeah. And, and so I felt like I was going through a teenage phase. Mm-hmm. A high school phase. Mm-hmm. Or middle school phase as a 29, 30-year-old. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, it was. Emotionally, a lot of ups and downs. Yes. Um, we dated for three years and then we got married when I was 32.

Joyce: 11:31

Okay. And then how, because of that then you probably didn't have a lot of framework. I mean, I'm sure you knew what you did not want, but Did you have like a really strong framework of what you did want going into the marriage and then was there a conflict of that when you actually entered into marriage?

Sophia: 11:51

Um. So our whole dating experience Yeah. Was not what I expected. Yeah. Um, because I think I probably had watched too much, Korean dramas by that point. And I really not blame Korean drama for a lot of expectations I had in dating. You key drama indoctrination. Yeah.'cause you think that, I don't know, I think, I think I expected the honeymoon phase to go a lot longer than it was, but our dating experience was actually pretty hard.

Joyce: 12:21

Mm. Because,

Sophia: 12:23

um, at that point David was still getting over his ex. Mm. Which he didn't realize. He wasn't, he thought he he got it. Yeah. Anyway, it's, there's no need to go into the whole affair. Yes. That's hard. But it was hard emotionally on me because I did not know whether I should break up with him. And I think I, I wrestled whether I should break up with him every day, almost every day. And, Again, it really hurt my pride. Yeah. And the image of myself of a strong independent woman who doesn't need a man. Mm-hmm. Because it was so hard for me to just say goodbye. Yeah. You, you don't met, you don't, but also don't, you don't know what were realistic expectations. Yeah. And what were unrealistic expectations. Yes. Yes. it was a long period of great uncertainty and angst and self-doubt. Yeah. But we pulled through and we got married and then, our wedding was set for April, 2020. I know. So, you know, pandemic hit. And so we got married actually. in a backyard

Joyce: 13:36

mm-hmm.

Sophia: 13:37

On Zoom. And then our pastor came and everyone was six feet apart. Yeah. And it was really intimate and nice. Yeah. But I was quite devastated that my, my parents couldn't be there, my family couldn't be there. It was all through Zoom. Um, and then our marriage started in isolation. Yeah. Um, because it was the early pandemic where nobody knew what was going on. people were still trying to figure out whether the social distances work or mask work. Like there was no vaccines yet, so it was a lot of just isolation. Yeah. Um, so our marriage started off just, kind of a weird note.

Joyce: 14:16

yeah, the world was barely coming back open at that point. Yeah. Like, just figuring out, I

Sophia: 14:21

can't say at that point we were really thinking about thriving in our marriage. Yeah. I think everybody was in survival mode. Mm-hmm. And also, um, David was kind of sinking into a, a low depression mm-hmm. Because of the isolation. Yeah. So there was a lot of silence. There were a lot of long walks, which was nice. Yeah. The two of us, but also there weren't as much talk about because we weren't out doing things. Yeah. And then a year into a marriage, um, my parents and David's parents met for the first time. Mm. And then a month later, his mother was hit by a truck and died. Yeah. So, a year into marriage, we dealt with a huge tragedy. Um, and so, yeah, We didn't have the wedding that we planned. Yeah. We didn't have a honeymoon, and then we would dealt with a tragedy. Yeah. Really unexpected. Like basically one of the worst thing that could happen to your life. Right? Yeah. Your mother dying, um, prematurely very tragically and suddenly. Yeah. it was honestly though a very realistic, realistic version of marriage where life happened. Yeah.

Joyce: 15:33

but do you feel like there were like, I guess, and do you feel that there were other silver linings in regards to starting a marriage in that kind of level of isolation? Or were there anything where as you're going through this process you're like, this is not what I envisioned. And then was there any like grieving that you felt like you had to kind of do.

Sophia: 15:54

I think from, from even just from dating. Mm. and then going into a marriage. Mm. And then dealing with a tragedy together.

Joyce: 16:03

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 16:04

Um, it strict away, all the non-essential things about marriage, like not having a wedding.

Joyce: 16:15

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 16:16

it feels like such, an essential thing with the actual wedding party and you know, like all of that. Or even a honeymoon seems like an essential phase into the marriage. is strict as in a marriage down to the essentials Yeah. Of being there for one another and supporting one another and being partners in life. Yeah. And just going through life together. Yeah. And that we are in it together.

Joyce: 16:48

Yeah.

Sophia: 16:49

Um, and especially with his mother dying, we dealt with one of the greatest tragedy you could ever experience together. Yeah. Um, and it helped me develop a sense of compassion for my husband. Hmm. And it's interesting because when we were dating, my father told me, um, he said. One of the, the most important thing in marriage isn't the romantic love or whatever mm-hmm. Is compassion. Mm-hmm. Is that I, I have so much compassion for your mother.

Joyce: 17:24

Mm.

Sophia: 17:24

I remember when he said that, I was like, compassion. That's a weird mm-hmm. Thing to say. It's like, it's almost like pt, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but he said no compassion for her weaknesses and her flaws. and that came into my mind a lot while DA was going through that low grade depression and also then like a lot more Right. Bigger depression. When his mother died, it was a time of great darkness where I legit was afraid I would not get my husband back.

Joyce: 17:58

Hmm.

Sophia: 17:58

I actually was, there was a bit of a fear in me that, um, I don't know. If my husband would ever be the same. Mm. And I don't know if I'll see him happy again.

Joyce: 18:10

Mm. Or

Sophia: 18:11

laugh again.

Joyce: 18:12

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 18:13

That was the period of great fear. Yeah. And that was when I remember my father saying the word compassion. Yeah. And it's something that I still think about from time to time, the word compassion. And it's not that I am on a higher plane than him, or like I'm better than him or it's not pity either. Right. Exists that when I see him, his struggles and, and we all have our unique weakness that we bring into the marriage. Yeah. To face that with compassion rather than anxiety or contempt. Right. Um, and I still sometimes struggle with it. Yes. But human, that's very human. That is something I feel like God wrote into the script of our marriage early on. Mm. Um, learning to have compassion mm-hmm. For my spouse.

Joyce: 19:04

Mm. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I think going through a great tragedy, especially it's so early in your marriage, I feel like it can make or break a lot of people. And the fact that you guys were able to like not only lean into each other, but also onto God and that strengthening your relationship and your marriage says so much about the mutual respect and love that you two have. Right. That it's not for each other. Because I think you can't get through that kind of tragedy and that hardship and the struggle and even you, your own internal struggles of like. What is my husband going to be like at the end of this? Is there even a end of this tunnel? Right? Is there a light? And that's a really like huge wrestle. I think I know that to like go through that and then to see like, wow, you, like you can look back on that now versus like still being feeling like you're in it.

Sophia: 20:00

Yeah. Yeah. but one thing too though Yes. On that. Yeah. But also I have to add that it also revealed my selfishness. Mm. when we were dating, I felt like I could do anything for David. Mm. I would plan his birthdays, elaborate plannings, like I did a lot for David. dating and marriage is so different. Yes. Marriage is a life, dating is a prep. Um, and. Even when David was going through such a hard time, like I said, I struggled with feeling compassion for my husband at times. Yeah. There were times when I got really irritated and just fed up and like, come on man. Just like, just pull yourself up. Yeah. Snap on it, man. Um,

Joyce: 20:47

yeah, I get it.

Sophia: 20:49

and also selfishly I wanted to enjoy

Joyce: 20:52

Yeah.

Sophia: 20:53

My life with him. Yeah. I wanted to have a uplifting cheer husband. Yeah. Not someone who was struggling emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. He was really struggling with his faith as well. Yeah. so it re reveal a lot of my selfishness. and that made me think a lot more even deeper about just the word compassion of, of not just having this feeling for him, but what does it take to support someone. Mm-hmm. What does it take to be a partner in this period mm-hmm. Where, um, where my strength is his strength mm-hmm. And I, I'm able to cover his weakness mm-hmm. And, and vice versa. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joyce: 21:37

Yeah. I mean, I think I can understand how it can feel like a, a selfish desire. I also think it's okay to also say like, I really hoped and wished for this, and it, you didn't get to have that. And that's okay to say, and I think it's okay to say like. Crap. Like I really was hoping this is not what I expected. Yes. This was not what I expected. I was really hoping we got to have a really different experience right. Outside of COVID. Outside of hardship. Outside of tragedy. Um, and that's okay to say, and it's also okay to see, like that was not what I was expecting. This was not what I was hoping for. And I also still am thankful for what we've gone through because it's made our marriage into what it is today. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, you're like, but yeah, I'm still bummed you know, that's grieving, right? Yeah. Like I think every aspect of life that we go through there is often a conflict between what our expectations are and what the reality is. Yeah.'Cause I have experienced that a lot in our marriage too, and I. Not to the same like death, but like, just the conflict of like what I thought it was gonna be and what it was. And I think especially as Christians, that those are moments where I just, so many times I heard God's voice just being like, I never promised you that. Mm, I never promised you that. I saw your desire and that you get married. I didn't say what it was gonna look like. You're the one who created that for yourself. And now we're gonna wrestle through that of like you letting go of that. and it's okay to also say like, I was really hoping for a more bright, lighter intro to marriage. I think that's also okay to say.'cause I get that completely too.

Sophia: 23:14

Yeah. Well, you kind of met your expectations in that you knew you would not wanna get married to a Korean man.

Joyce: 23:21

Yes. So

Sophia: 23:23

how was that? How, was it like entering into marriage? Because I don't think you expected to marry someone. where, for Tyler? It was, it is a second marriage.

Joyce: 23:35

Yeah. I didn't expect to marry Tyler at all. So backstory, Tyler and I have known each other since we were 17, like 18 years old. We got married when I turned 32, 31, 32. I don't know. I was, we were in our thirties Yeah. When we got married. Uh, and even like the level of where I did not expect it, I was one of his guests at his wedding. Like you could see me in their wedding fit photos. Their wedding vid like video. Like you see my dress everywhere'cause I was the only one who wore bright fuchsia pink to their wedding. what it like caught me off guard.'cause Tyler remembered the dress and I was like, you remember the dress? He's like, yeah. And I'm like, you were getting married that day. Why do you remember my dress? Um, it was loud. It was loud. I was the only one. And I was like, it's a Spanish, European wedding. Like, why would you not wear fun colors? All of you boring. I was like, muted, neutral, like, uh, anyways, his ex was like trying to set me up with one of her, like coworkers at the wedding. And I had no idea. And then like

Sophia: 24:40

interesting turn up events. Yeah.

Joyce: 24:41

I was like, the awkward, I'm like, I'm not here for anybody. I'm just trying to yolo. I'm just got out of a bad breakup. Okay. Um, so yeah, I did not expect to marry Tyler. I thought I was gonna start with someone new. And that was something my mom had a hard time with. Our timeline was extremely fast, which was uncomfortable for a lot of our family members. Um, but my mom even verbally said, she's like, I'd prefer that it was someone not married. and I get where she's coming from. That's every parents. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, that was a little bit of a struggle for us. But yeah, I got a non Korean guy, Uh, I just wasn't expecting to be a second marriage. I, everything that we went through with our relationship moved fast. Mm-hmm. Because we had 20 years, right. Practically 20 years. Yeah. You guys were even built a strong friendship. Friendship, yes. So we kind of knew each other. Our families knew each other. Like, my know, I knew his family. We very well, like,'cause we were best friends all through college and post. So it was just like one of those things where my name was a regular household name. Even when he was dating his ex, like my name was always in there. Uh, so it was just kind of one of those things. Um, but I just didn't expect it to work the way it was. Like we met, I when he got, he, so the timeline was really quick. He announced his divorce. I started checking in on him'cause he obviously wasn't doing really well and so I was checking on him just to make sure, like mentally he's okay. And from there Old feelings came back and I was dating other people at that time. Uh, and so we kind of had this reality check of like, I didn't even know I had feelings for him. Like I was so oblivious. I had a friend where he was like, he had to call it out on me and he's like, dude, you have feelings for Tyler? I'm like, no, I don't. And I was dating another guy at the time, he's like, does that other guy know about Tyler? And I was like, yeah, like, does Tyler know about the other guy? I'm like, no. He's like, what do you tell Tyler when you're going on dates with that other guy? I'm like, going out to dinner with a friend. And he's like, okay, subconscious. You're so in denial about the fact that you have feelings for Tyler. And I was like, oh, shoot. So I had to have a week of like, oh no. No, I have feelings for him. Oh no. I had to like, in my own head of like reeling.'cause it's just weird going from like best friends, really good friends to that. Um, but for Tyler, he had assumed we were already moving in that direction, so we had to have this talk. So we did a really hard thing when you're like in the midst of like, oh my gosh, we like each other. And like, it moved quickly into like, we already had a mutual, like love for each other. So I was like, oh, we're kind of already in love with each other. And you know, like those like butterfly feelings of having this moment. And then we took a six month vow of silence. So then we stopped talking. until his divorce was fully finalized. So that was the hardest thing. And that's like what my best friend said that's how she knew Tyler was the one, because I actually cried and she was like, I've never seen you cry for a man before. Like I walked, said goodbye to him, and I sat in the airport and just started crying the whole time, like for the flight. And so she's like, oh, she didn't say anything then, but she was like, she said, that's when she was like, oh, this is different. Mm-hmm. Like, Joyce doesn't have feelings like this for anyone she's ever dated,

Sophia: 28:15

um, Joyce and no other rock points of your relationship with Tyler, but this is the first time I'm hearing the details. Yes. It's like a little drama.

Joyce: 28:24

There was a lot. Yeah. But um, anyway, so yeah, we took six months, sat silence. Um, and then we came back. The thing that was really hard about our dating, we, we dated for six months, got engaged, was engaged for six months, and then we got married. It was like, it was fast. And, um, once we started dating, a lot of my mental health issues started unraveling. And I, things I didn't know, I already knew I had depression from my ex. my ex had triggered my like, deep major depression. And that's when I was already coming out of it. So I already had that tendency. But when I started dating Tyler, I started getting all these other symptoms. And then just before I moved down, that's when I, they diagnosed with PTSD. Mm-hmm. And they're like, you have PTSD Like I was getting panic attacks at work. I was getting like major depressive episodes. I was like spiraling. I think the reality of a relationship that felt vulnerable and like very unpredictable.'cause we're traveling a lot. It was high stress in that sense. And I had taken on a new job as a director. So it was just a lot of things happened and it just triggered these crazy symptoms that started coming out of me. I think it was just also like a lot of fear. And so things just started coming out that I didn't know. And it was hard. It was really hard. It was hard on me. It was hard on Tyler'cause I just basically took it out on Tyler the whole time. And I think that's what cemented Tyler as being the one for me I had dated a lot. I have a very, very crazy past. And so by the time I got to Tyler, I only had two things on my list, which was I whittled it down through all of my pains and all like the hardships. I've gone in relationships. I said, I want a man who's pursuing God, who's actively pursuing God. It doesn't have to be like he has to be the leader, but he's actively pursuing. And two, he never stops fighting for us. Mm. I need someone who's never going to stop fighting for me. And Tyler proved for both. And so that's where I was like, okay, like you passed Tyler.

Sophia: 30:36

Good job.

Joyce: 30:37

Good job Tyler. And he still has proven to it that, yeah. Up to now. Um, so yeah. And the only thing I like with Tyler, and I was like, we both entered our dream jobs right when we started dating. So I was up in the Bay Area, Tyler was down in la and we're both at a standstill of like, who's gonna move? Mm-hmm. And neither of us were gonna move and neither of us were gonna tell each other to move. So we just kind of lived in this weird limbo. And then one day I was at church, God told me to move. He told me to move and I was pissed. Oh, I remember tell you about this. Yeah. Yeah. And that probably also spiraled me into a lot of resentment. And I was like, oh God, did you a favor. Because I can only be resentful towards God, not you. Yeah, I know. Bring it, bring it to God. And I was like, because I can't blame anyone but God for forcing me to do this. But, um, so yeah, it was, so we moved and me moving is what triggered Tyler to propose. Because he understood what that meant. Yeah. he also knew the sacrifice I was putting up to move and to be obedient. our engagement was like chaotic because I was. Moving down to la I was transitioning jobs and starting a new company job, like our new position, we were buying a house and part of it was just because Tyler had gone through a lot of the comforts of being previously married, and he and his were together for a total of 10 years. Like they had bought a home together, they had all these things, so he like really desired that comfort again. So he kind of moved at a pace to try to get back what he like lost. You felt reproducing? Yes, and I felt, I felt rushed.'cause I had never had a real crazy desired buy a house. Like I never grew up in a house. I moved a lot. for me, the concept of home didn't ever have to be at a house. Same

Sophia: 32:33

here. Yeah. It was

Joyce: 32:34

just more of like, you know, your family, your unit. Mm-hmm. So we had a lot of arguments of like that, he did not like living in an apartment, he wanted to buy a house. So I was feeling really rushed. But looking back, I'm so thankful We got married in August of 2019. Uh, so just before the pandemic hit. Uh, and so I look back and I see how God's hand worked in blessing us. And I'm thankful because when God had told me, you need to move, and I like felt a very clear voice being like, you need to move. And I was like, what? I got through a tantrum. I also heard God say, you need to move in six months. And I was disobedient. I moved in 10 and there were consequences to that too. But uh, I moved in 10 but I look back and God was still able to bless me in that. it was, I'm such a gift because my dad was able to come to our wedding and I had not seen my dad for like 25 years at that point. Wow. So it was the first time my dad had seen our entire family Wow. Since the divorce when I was finalized when I was seven. So, uh, yeah, that was like 23 years since I had seen him I didn't even know what he looked like that literally at the airport. He walked past me and I didn't know, like we walked past each other and we didn't even recognize,'cause the last time he had seen me I was like 11 So, um, it was just kind of this crazy thing because if it didn't move at the pace that we did, I would not have been able to have our wedding. Which I think would've been fine, but I would not have had my dad come out and that was what was the most important thing. And that in itself was also a whole get, having my dad come out. and I think our dating moved so quickly that we literally got married a month after. We celebrated our one year anniversary of dating. So everything just moved really fast. That, um, I don't think we had a lot of time to absorb. And then we got married and then we had COVID and I actually really liked that we had a bubble, um, partly because we were long distance. So we never got to live a life together. We never got to do life together. And so that was a whole new experience for me. Yeah. That was

Sophia: 34:56

social obligations. That's where spend time together.

Joyce: 34:59

Yeah. And Tyler's an introvert, so he like thrived in it. He was just like, yay, I didn't talk to anybody. He worked from home. I worked like, it was just like a lot of things. Um, but the other conflict we wrestled with early in our marriage was when we were gonna start trying for kids. And I wanted like a year to two years of enjoying our time of being married. And he wanted to start having kids almost. Almost near immediately after getting married.

Sophia: 35:27

Okay.

Joyce: 35:27

And I was like, look, dude. It is cool that you got to have 10 years with your ex, that you kind of got to live life with her and do all the things that young married people get to do. Like they traveled and they did a lot of things. Like he's like then, then this and that. I'm ready to, yeah. And so he's like, you make a family. I did that. He's like, so I'm ready for a family. And I'm like, I never got to do that. So we had a lot of conflicts in that of like things that he has already gone through and experienced.'cause they were together the entire twenties. Their entire twenties. Yeah. They, they were together. I was single my entire twenties. So it's like we had a very different experience. So I was like, so by the time we got married. He had entered into the, I'm ready for a family, I'm ready to settle down kind of phase. And I was not,'cause I was like, my life is just starting as a married person. And so we had a lot of wrestling with that and I had to grieve and eventually I, after like I think we were together for a year, that's when I was like, okay, we can start trying. But I still had to like grieve a lot in that process'cause of COVID. Like I ne we never got to travel. Like we never got to do the things that I had always wa wanted to do because of that. Like to experience before starting to try for kids.'cause I knew once you have kids, like you can still do things. It's just very, very different and not as free. Yep. And less obligated. Right. Especially more stressful. Yeah. And more expensive and like, and so all these things. So I like wanted to experience that. And so I had to spend time grieving through that. And Tyler had a really hard time understanding that like he's like. Why is this a big deal to you? And I was like, it's not a big deal to you because you got to have that. Like I never got to have that. Like I never got to travel like that with a partner. So I think we had a lot of conflict in that and our first year was really spent focused on my PTSD. Mm-hmm. And focusing on me safe.'cause once my PTSD would trigger. And if I, if I couldn't catch it fast enough, it would spiral. And so then I became a danger to myself. And so we had to have a lot of safety plans. oh, there was a lot of stress. and Tyler had a really hard time with being gracious towards me in that time and I understand'cause he was frustrated too. Yeah.

Sophia: 37:42

Dealing with some other mental issues.

Joyce: 37:45

Ising on both. Yeah's, it's hard and especially when you don't understand PTSD. Yeah.

Sophia: 37:49

If you haven't been through it, it's hard

Joyce: 37:50

to really understand. Yeah. Yeah. the hardest parts for us was like our, our dating and our marriage, our first year of marriage was really kind of centered around my PTSD. And so like once my PTSD was more stable and manageable and I had a better grip on it and my depression was better. Uh, then we had to learn what it meant to be a normal married couple of like normal conflicts. Yeah. And so that's when like our therapist was like, okay, cool. This is like a normal marriage conflict thing. We're no longer doing PTS. This is exciting. I was like, this is what normal people argue about. So that was like our first year like marriage. Was it in similar sense of likers of like. It was, it was marked with mental health. Mm, yeah. Uh, hardship and a lot of us shaping that. But I look back to who I am today versus who I was then. and I look at who Tyler is now versus then, for us to be the people that we are today, we had to get married that quickly. And we had to have our kids very quickly in our first year of marriage, like end of our first year of marriage.'cause I was like. We wouldn't be the people we are today if we did not go through all that we've gone through in our marriage. Yeah. And having children. There are some friends that I have that I see them push themselves and grow in ways, in their own depth, in their singleness that I know I never would achieve or pursue. And it was only because I was like challenged as a wife and challenged as a mother that I was like, okay, you know? But it was hard like Getting married within the first year. going through COVID and then having PTSD, where like there's a hot constant stress of am I gonna hurt myself? Am I safe? Am I safe? it's the not easy,

Sophia: 39:44

Yeah. Um, this is, I mean, this is real life. It's not happily mm-hmm. Ever after.

Joyce: 39:51

Right. I think what I also struggled with was, I think this is very common, uh, but like, we just stopped dating the moment we got married. You know what I mean? Oh yeah.

Sophia: 39:59

Same here.

Joyce: 40:00

Which is not, do not do that. If you are listening. You romance. Romance is something you have to constantly pursue. It's not vital per se, but love is a choice, right? the desire to know each other, to pursue each other, should not stop after marriage. But I think for Tyler, he like was very com. He's like, we're married now. And then I was like, hold up. You need to still buy me fly. What? I, no, this is not it. We need to go on dates. And like, we had a lot of conflict of that. Like he, look, he's a man of comfort and I'm not that person. So we had a lot of conflict in that, plus the PTSD stuff,

Sophia: 40:42

uh, plus COVID stuff. Yeah. I think that's, um, a common struggle. for me, what I struggle with right now is I give so much of my energy and time and thoughts to my children mm-hmm. That whatever I give to David is the leftovers. Mm-hmm. The scraps. Yeah. And that's flipped. Right. And that's something that I. Intellectually, no. But in real life it's really hard to practice. Mm-hmm. the marriage is the foundation upon Right. Our family stands. Right. My parenting stands on that foundation of a strong, healthy, loving marriage. Yeah. Um, it can't be that I give the scraps to my marriage. Right. But the reality of the day-to-day life.

Joyce: 41:28

It's the most draining aspect. Yes,

Sophia: 41:29

it is draining.

Joyce: 41:30

Yeah. The parenting is the most draining aspect.

Sophia: 41:32

Yeah. When I look back though, I think the moment we got married, we just kind of let go of the romance part. Yeah. It was very much this. Life. Um, and you like stepped into partnership a little too hard, not even partnership roommates almost. Mm. Because I'm an introvert, so I really kind of spiraled into even more introversion. Yeah. During the COVID time, I actually loved it. Yeah. Because I had no social obligations. Yeah. I didn't have to fight through traffic to people's birthday parties or whatever. I just loved being by myself at home. Yeah. COVID developed a lot of unhealthy individualistic habits for me. Yeah. so it was kind of like we went in cocoon together, but I also had my own cocoon. Yeah. And then when David's mother died, it was a jarring moment where we were brought together. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, just because we go through a tragedy together does not mean we're really actually together. I think David had mentioned many times that how lonely he felt Yeah. During that tragedy. And I remember getting quite hurt because I'm here with, I want to help you. Yeah. I want to listen to you. But it was a certain grief. You kind of walk alone.'cause I didn't lose my mother. Yeah. and it was the loneliness of losing your mother, the one person who will love you the way nobody else can. Yeah. Right. So he walked through that loneliness by himself. There was a lot of aloneness.

Joyce: 43:05

Yeah.

Sophia: 43:06

Um, in the marriage. Yeah. And then with children, this is something that I've been feeling more and more convicted by, is that. I have forgotten to pay attention to my husband.

Joyce: 43:19

Mm-hmm.

Sophia: 43:20

when you have kids, you're so curious about who your kids are. Mm-hmm. What's his personality gonna be? What is she gonna like? Mm-hmm. What's his hobby gonna be? Oh, I wonder, I wonder about him. there's so many curiosity and just delight. Mm-hmm. Um, in the littlest thing they do. And I, I realized that I don't keep up that same kind of curiosity for my husband.

Joyce: 43:43

Mm-hmm. But the

Sophia: 43:43

fact is David is not the David that whom I met. Right. David is not the David I'm married. David is not the David who lost his mother David of 2025. He's always changing.

Joyce: 43:57

Yeah.

Sophia: 43:57

And I'm always changing. So there's a level of curiosity that I need to constantly maintain to figure out, Hey, what are you thinking?

Joyce: 44:04

Yeah.

Sophia: 44:05

What are you feeling? How's your relationship with God? Yeah. How are you doing?

Joyce: 44:08

Yeah.

Sophia: 44:09

and. I realize how much I've lost that.

Joyce: 44:12

Yeah.

Sophia: 44:13

To the detriment of our marriage. Not that we have a bad marriage right now. Right. But I feel a lot of times we just maintaining Right. And we just existing Yeah. In one space together. Kind of like two sheep passing in the night. Yeah. Um, just passing, passing but um, marriage takes so much intentionality. Yes. The intentionality that I had in dating, um, maybe we can't maintain that level of intentionality when you're dating to marriage. But I need to mentally be conscious that my family is only as healthy as a marriage. Yeah. Is healthy. Yeah. Um. And so one night I remember, um, usually after we put the kids to bed, I am ready to wrap myself up by myself. Like no noises nobody disturbed me. Yeah. and one night I was just particularly tired and drained and I was reading my book by myself, and then David comes up to me because he saw something he thought was really cool, and he just came up to me and spoke to me. Mm-hmm. And I just gave him that look. It was just that one look. And he like, instantly backed to me. He was like, sorry to disturb you. Yeah. first, it was just this rush of irritation. How dare you disturb me? Yeah. How dare you? You know, this is my me time. But the, the reality was like, we haven't spoken the entire day. Yeah. we in the same house, but we didn't speak at all. And then he comes to for 2, 3, 5 minutes of my time and I couldn't give him that because it felt like he was invading my private space. Yeah. This, this space, personal me time that I hold so dearly that I, I think that I deserve this at night. Yeah. I did all my duties. Yeah. the kitchen is folded up, everything's done. The kids in bed. Now I get to really just, enjoy my time. Yeah. And it felt like an invasion. and I realize how wrong that thinking is and how unhealthy that thinking is. Um, that I'm done with my duties of the day. and I left nothing for my husband. Mm. Left nothing for David. And when he tried to ask me for five minutes of my time just sharing something cool, I had this instant rage. And it's not even like I yelled at him or said anything. It was just that one look. and he was really hurt. Mm. But also my pride. I couldn't, in that instance, say I'm sorry, let me put my book down. Yeah. And listen to you. I couldn't do that.

Joyce: 46:51

Yeah.

Sophia: 46:52

Because, I don't know, there was a lot of self justification. like, I'm tired. he's bothering me. it wasn't until the next morning where I sent him a text because God kept pricking me. Prodding me, and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was like. You did wrong. No,

Joyce: 47:09

no. You did

Sophia: 47:10

wrong. Yes. Like, dang it, so I did do wrong. Yeah. So I sent him a text apologizing and saying I did wrong.

Joyce: 47:18

Yeah.

Sophia: 47:19

yeah, I feel like my marriage is a lot of that right now. Like there's a lot of repairs. it's not deep wounding and deep steps like it's little features. Mm-hmm. Little cracks here and there that needs constant repairing. Mm-hmm. and that's something that God is convicting me about. the inefficiency of constant just doing the repairs of the cracks. there's something more that needs to be done on a deeper level, like setting that cement grounding. laying a solid foundation of. Good soil. that's something that I've been praying a lot about. Mm-hmm. For God to give me wisdom where we can build little points of connection. realistically it's hard for us to go on a date. Yeah. We can't do the whole dating the way that we used to when we didn't have kids. Right. So there's a lot of wisdom that needs to be, asked from God. on how to build little points of connections throughout the day. Yeah. And that's kind of where we are in our marriage right now.

Joyce: 48:14

Yeah. Which I think is normal, honestly, even aside from children, I think having children accelerates it, but usually around those years between like five to seven. Is like where they say it's like the make or break part. This is where you see a lot of divorce happen. This is where you see a lot of like breakups happen. This is actually where you see like jobs, this is like the honeymoon phase for jobs. This is where you'll see people start hating their jobs and they start wanting to leave is around the five to seven mark. I see. Yeah. And Tyler and I, we entered into that right after having our second kiddo, there was a pretty hard, rough ti time, like right when I gave birth to Ty. with our marriage, not even just in the transitioning of parenting. Um, and part of it was just as mothers with every birth, there was such a deep transformation and. And not to say like the woo woo crunch of your, like you become a new No, I mean, like, as in like, you just don't know who you are anymore because your abilities change. Yeah. things that used to give you life just sounds like death. we had like a recent date And he was even very honest and he's like, I feel bad expecting anything of you from me. when I can barely give you what you want. And he's like, I wanna give you deep conversations at the end of the day. He's like, but I'm so burnt. I was like, I don't, I don't want that. I don't wanna talk a lot. Your needs change. Mm-hmm. How you decide how you. Feel loved change. Same with Yes. I did

Sophia: 49:43

not. I always thought that your love language stays the same. I realize evolved. It has changed so much for

Joyce: 49:48

me. Yeah. And even what you even have bandwidth of in reality. Right. And so Tyler still thought like deep conversations. He, I was like, no, I don't wanna talk to anybody at the end of the night either. I just need affirmation. I just need you in the middle of the day, be like, I see how hard you're busting your butt for me and like for our family. Thank you. I'm like that you do that, that will carry me through some rough mids that are happening that day. Mm-hmm. And like when you're talking about, earlier about like the marriage is foundation. Yeah. Like when my marriage is having a rough time when Tyler and I are not good, my ability to mother is so much harder and rocky.'cause there's a portion of your brain that gets consumed about your marriage and when your marriage is stable and firm. You're not thinking about that as much because it's firm. Yeah. Your foundation is set so you can, there's a level of security crap and

Sophia: 50:40

safety

Joyce: 50:41

and assurance. Yeah. That you can just move. Right? Yeah. But when you're in the middle of a fight or you guys are in a middle of a resentment, bitterness battle, like that consumes a portion of your brain that you are not able to mother to level. Yeah. 100%.

Sophia: 50:56

Because so much of mothering, especially young kids, is giving assurance.

Joyce: 50:59

Yeah.

Sophia: 50:59

And safety. Providing that safe, secure, assuring Yeah. Environment for kids.

Joyce: 51:05

Yeah.

Sophia: 51:06

And when your marriage

Joyce: 51:07

doesn't feel that way. Yeah. It comes out, it bleeds out whether you intend or not, it'll bleed out. Whether it's your lack of patience or your ability to stay present. Right. Or your patience to read that same story for the 45th time, all the voices and it the same joy, you know? Yeah. Same zest. Yeah. Yeah, so Tyler and I hit that really hard part right when I had the second, and then we're kind of evolving through that. And I think for me it's the flip where Tyler is very much a man of I comfort. I said that already, but I mean, his needs don't change too much. Okay. So like in his mind it doesn't like register in his mind that like maybe Joyce is probably needs a little different things now, even though I've said it 4,500 times. But, um, like, we've made a list of ways to feel loved. His has not changed in two years. Like how was, like, how has yours not changed? But like for me, it's changed, it evolves almost weekly, monthly. Um, and that's just who I am as a person I am constantly changing, like to the detriment of our bank account. I'm like, my clothing style changes. My ability to to love the color of our home and our bedsheets changes every like six months. I'm like, I think we should get new bedsheets. He's like, are you kidding? I'm like, I don't like the color of our beds. I think we should get new paint. and that's just who I am. And I've given up a lot of that, for the sake of my children's clothing, because it costs so much money to have children. that's just who I am is like, I'm constantly kind of like needing an input, a different person. So yeah, that has been, I think, a different per Tyler, he's,

Sophia: 52:44

he's constantly playing the catch up game.

Joyce: 52:47

Yeah.

Sophia: 52:48

Yeah. Let's give a lot of grace to,

Joyce: 52:50

for Tyler. Yeah. I mean, I, I have been better about telling him like, This is all I need from you. But I think the struggle is like letting that be heard.'cause I think also when I think about men versus women, and this may be completely different, but it's just what I've observed through Tyler, is that men have a great desire, especially in a marriage, like in a fathership role, a great desire to provide stability and to feel, um. I guess rested in a sense, like in a sense of like they, they want to provide, and I see Tyler seeking it all the time of constantly finding ways that our family can feel stable, our family can feel firm, our family, feel rested when we come home. there's this deeper different sense. And I feel like for me, I look at the higher level of community, different resources. But I think sometimes when we enter into our parenting and marriage, like we get so focused in on what we are seeking for that sometimes that we forget that it can only be achieved when we. Enter into it together as a couple instead of like being parallel that we really need to be together and going through it as battle. Well, I feel like that was a good, strong note for us to end our conversation on, but I think overall, there was a long conversation just to talk about expectations of what we had before and what it's been like right after we got married, and then also our experiences of how it evolved once we had children. but ultimately the reminder is that marriage is a partnership and partners have to talk with each other and have to continually know each other. And I think that's such a hard battle for us, once you have children, I know a lot of us say it's a luxury, but it's really a necessity for a marriage to thrive.

Speaker 4: 54:36

Thank you so much for listening. If you've been liking our episodes, please follow, like, subscribe, or leave us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and feedback. You can find us on Instagram at the old Oma Club. Or reach out to us at the old Amma club@gmail.com. Gotta give a big thank you to Kevin MCL for our music. Until next time, Amma, may the Lord bless you and keep you sane, hydrated, and fulfilled the way only he can.