The Old Umma Club

Ep 8: Community

• The Old Umma Club • Season 1 • Episode 8

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Our last episode of season 1 ends with a much-needed discussion on building community in this busy, lonely modern age. 

Joyce and Sophia talk about why community is a pillar of The Old Umma Club, what community is, how they met and built community, and what the challenges are in building community at this season of life.

Reach out to Sophia and Joyce:

Instagram: @theoldummaclub

Email: theoldummaclub@gmail.com


Music credits:
"Life of Riley" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Speaker:

Hey Amaz, welcome to the Old Alma Club. I'm Joyce. And I'm Sophia. We are two friends in Los Angeles who had so many great coffee chats about our love for Jesus being Korean in biracial marriages and having kids mid-career, mid thirties. So we decided to turn it into a podcast. So grab a cup of coffee and

Speaker 2:

join our conversations and by aching backs, motherhood, marriage, Jesus, and everything in between.

Speaker 3:

You ready? Hannah? Two. Set. Set. Let's go. Let's go.

Sophia:

Are you ready for the last episode of the Old Oma Club season one? This is episode number eight. Is it number eight? It is number eight because our marriage episodes got. Too long. Oh yeah. So we became two episodes. We had much to talk about

Joyce:

with our husbands.

Sophia:

Apparently this should be a marriage club, podcast. Not the Umma podcast, but it all worked out. Yes. So episode eight, we're talking about the last pillar of the old Amma Club, which is community.

Joyce:

Community. It's like prized and also so hard. At the same time, I see so many people, Christian and not Christian, talk about mother communities. Mm-hmm. And also the struggles of building community.

Sophia:

Yeah. It is hard. Like all things were wordy is hard, just like marriage is hard, just like mothering is hard. Mm-hmm. But also, it is not just good to have, but it is necessary and essential. Mm-hmm. To have a community. why would you say that community is important? Why do we consider community as a pillar of the old Amma Club?

Joyce:

Well, even like why we started the old Amma Club is to build a community and to reach out to other Ammas, right? And to other moms. But like, on top of that, like you and I, we have talked so much about just our desire and need and the importance of building community because it's like. You need that to survive, right? mothering and parenting alone is just not the original design. Mm-hmm. That God had intended. Like even when you look at biblical nature of parenting, it's the whole village and family. Like it's the families that are like building with each other and generations helping to build into the other generations. And like that is something that has been lost. And so as a result. Like parenting nowadays you have to build your own community and it, you don't have this built in community anymore and it's so hard.

Sophia:

Yeah,

Joyce:

yeah. But it's like absolutely necessary. Like you can't rely on your husband for everything. You shouldn't rely on, you can try rely on your husbands. It's gonna be trouble. They're not meant to do that. Jesus and God are like the only right and the Holy Spirit are the only things that can take on everything. But even then. This might be a bold thing for me to say, but I even then, like, I think God also understands our need and desire for the physical community too. No, absolutely. Because God

Sophia:

created Adam and he said it's not good for men to be alone, alone. Right. Um, and God himself, like I mentioned, God, he doesn't, he lives in the Trium God himself. He got a community, lives in community and by making us in the image of God with. His stamp on us, We were created to be in community. Yes. And all of scripture talks about community in terms of like being the body of Christ, right? Mm-hmm. We're not just a hand flinging off by ourselves. We are part of a body. Mm-hmm. this, um, verse really convicted me at a time when I was really struggling with having community and at a time when I was feeling disillusioned about the Christian, about Christians, yeah. And, and just churches. At such a time I was. studying John by myself, and this first really stood out to me and convicted me, and that's John 1334 to 35. And it is what Jesus shared with his disciples just before he was crucified. So, you know, that at that hour for him to say this, this is something that he holds very. Dear to his heart, right? And this is close to God's heart, and this is critical, right? And he said, okay, new commandment I give to you that you love one another. Just as I have loved you. You also are to love one another. By this, all people will know that you are my disciples if we have love for one another. And I'm reminded too that um, Jesus also didn't do his ministry alone. No. He had

Joyce:

a whole posse. Right. He was always right. He had his closest few. And then he had the bigger community.

Sophia:

Right. And he had his disciples Right. Whom he ate. Slapped everything. Walked with everything, right? Yeah. so Jesus, on his, days on Earth, he modeled community to us as well. Yeah. And then he left us with this new commandment. He said to love one another just as God has loved us, so that the world will know who. Mm-hmm. That God. God is God, right? Yeah. And who God is, that God's attributes and character can be shown through. The way we treat one another, the way we live with one another.

Joyce:

Yeah.

Sophia:

and that's why we think that community is essential to our life and it's also essential to parenthood. Mm-hmm. And essential to marriage. Yeah.

Joyce:

Essential, like in just so many ways. I think the irony for me is that for us as Christians, like it's been an interesting journey as being a mom because I've seen so many Christian moms talk. Yearn for a community. But the irony is that Typically if you're a Christian, you go to a church. Yeah. And yet loneliness is still so pervasive within the church. And it like mind blows, right? Because like our history, we both left a, a church together. We both, we met at another church and we both left. And we both left for communal reasons. and. It just goes to show you that even if you are a part of an organization or a part of a body, there's still a tendency, there's still a possibility of being alone.

Sophia:

You know what I mean? I think yes. I think that is the sad irony Yeah. Too about the Christian community, um, is that sometimes When I look at secular, non-believing people, they seem to have a more abundant and thriving community. Mm-hmm. Than some Christians. Yeah. Who go to church and have a weekly gathering and who

Joyce:

have a pastor who tells you this Bible verse of like love one another. And yet, I mean, somehow he seems, seems to be so hard. Yeah. The church is full of broken people and that's why we need God and Jesus. But I think, here's my thought is I think within the church. One clicks. That's just, that's gonna happen. Like herd mentality clicking. But I think also sometimes there's this performative nature of being Christian that it adds a wall to

Sophia:

being Oh, you mean like when someone texts oh, um, this is the hard thing that happened. And when people are like, I pray for you. Yeah. And then, and then that's it. Period. Full stop. And then it's like. No follow up, no physical action of showing love, genuine praying for you.

Joyce:

I get so irritated. Pray a hand emoji. Yeah. Like I'm praying for you. Love you. You're in my thoughts and prayers. Yeah. And I'm like, What does that even mean? You're in my thoughts and prayers. Sending you hugs. Love you. God will get you through this. Praying for you. And I'm like, I'm gonna throw my phone. This

Sophia:

is when, um, reading the book of James will be really helpful.

Joyce:

Like love one another, love one another. About how

Sophia:

just by speak, talking about love, that's not gonna get you anywhere. There has to be a physical action. Yes. And physical presence. Yes. And in so many ways, um, Christians have a leg up over non-religious people where we do have. A physical gathering, gathering place at least every week. Mm-hmm. And ideally two or three times a week. Mm-hmm. And it's with the same people. Mm-hmm. Right. And holding the same beliefs, and yet we're still so divided. Fragmented. Yes. and this is the irony. but also it makes a lot of sense because who hates. Christians loving one another. Well, the most right? That is Satan, right? And Satan doesn't want God to be known. Satan doesn't want God to be glorified, so he attacks unity of Christians

Joyce:

I know. I mean, we can see it in today's. World without getting too deep into it, but it's pretty evident I feel with current Yeah. Culture and the world and society and it's so hard. Yeah. so that's, that's like why we felt like community is a pillar, because it is a challenge and it is so desired. And it's important and it's one that we have to genuinely fight for. Yes. just like you have to fight for your marriage. You have to fight for C even the way you choose a parent in a godly way. You have to fight for your community and you have to be so persistent and intentional and painfully vulnerable. Yeah. and also painfully put yourself out there,

Sophia:

Open to being hurt again. Yeah. And that is so hard, in so many ways, hard, um, and open to being disappointed. Mm-hmm. Open to people's masses and also people annoying. And I don't know if you notice this trait about me, but I get highly irritated, very easily. Every little single thing, just like, ugh. I just, just my, my eyes twitch and I'm just irritated. So as you know, everybody should pray for my husband, like just fast and pray. But yeah, here's my personality and then with people who are, um, objectively annoying. I mean, I have to, and then you have to love one another. You're like, I have to love you. Oh. God left us like a pretty hefty commandment. It's not just like tolerate one another. Yeah. Oh, just have peace. Yeah. It's like love, love one another

Joyce:

as I have loved you. And I'm like, man, you wash their feet. Ah. Oh yeah, but I don't wanna wash that

Sophia:

man feet. Which man are you talking about? My husband. Oh man. We need to start there.

Joyce:

I know. Gosh. Oh man, we thought it would be a fun story talking about how we started our friendship. Yeah. And how we ended up here, which I think Sophia has a better recall about it than I do.

Sophia:

Hmm. Well, I just remember, I was five weeks postpartum with my first, I don't believe you were five weeks when you came to that book club. Well, I just really needed to get out and I was like, that's fair. At that time too, I was starting to realize that even though I've been part of this church for. Three years by that point. I don't know what it was, but it was just so hard to find community in that church. And we joined that church not with a consumeristic mindset. We went there because we wanted to serve and we really wanted to have a home church. Yeah. Where we do life together. And It was not a huge church. It was like, what, 200 people? It's really small, uh, small in, I guess American terms, but yeah, it was where you should be able to recognize each other's faces and it was really hard to find community. So when I heard that there was a mother's book club, I really wanted to join. And then, um, David was like, yes, yes. All for it. So I remember going and I don't think I've ever really talked to anyone there. Like I know their faces. Oh, that was the first time seeing them? Yeah. Oh. Because a lot of them were, um, mothers for longer than I am. Right. And some of them had slightly older kids. Um, and for some reason our circle just did not, there was no Venn diagram. intersecting. Yeah. Um, so I knew their faces, I knew the names, but I didn't really have any. good conversations with them, like just maybe a high or bye.

Joyce:

Yeah, I think meet that too. I think I only knew two people from that. I kind of like actually Con had actual conversations with from the group.

Sophia:

I mean, I had never seen your face. Until I joined that group. Here's the

Joyce:

plot twist. I had seen Sophia's face many times before. Oh, did you

Sophia:

recognize

Joyce:

me? Yeah. Oh, but that's because of someone else's Instagram or like, we had a mutual friend from reality la from that church. From that church. but I saw you on her socials all the time. I see. So I stood out to you because of that. But Well, in the sense that, I just remember when I saw you on her socials, I remember just thinking, I was like, man, she's such a cool girl. Like, I just had this feeling of like. I feel like we would actually get along really well, even though it was just a picture of like, I just got a vibe and I was like, I just know. And then when I saw you at the book quote, that was the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit saying, she will be your friend.

Sophia:

Well, I did not, five

Joyce:

years from now,

Sophia:

I don't think I got that. Got that she would be your friend. Prophecy my mind, um, at all. Because you had never seen

Joyce:

me on

Sophia:

anyone's social. Oh, maybe I just passed. Okay. Here's where a lot of my. own mistake showed Mm, was that I was looking for community for people who were just like me. Mm. In terms of like being, childless. Yeah. But I still can't believe to this day that I never saw you at church, but I remember. Spotting you because We were the only three agents in that group. Yes. And so. I spotted your face. And we sat across from each other. Yeah. We're

Joyce:

both bonded about the, we're both Korean. Because I remember you mentioned something, we were talking about the books, and you're like, mm-hmm. As a Korean, I was like, yeah, same. I was like, I get that completely. Yeah.

Sophia:

yeah, because I remember seeing your face. I'm like, yeah, she's Korean.

Joyce:

I have a Korean. Which is funny'cause some Koreans don't even think I'm Korean. Everyone thinks I'm like islander. Huh. Who? Korean. Think. Korean think I'm island. But these guys like get dark. And so they're like, oh,

Sophia:

oh bow, okay, are you Hawaiian? And I'm like, no, what? I'm dark too. So

Joyce:

Sophia is very pale'cause she's very good at staying out of the sun.

Sophia:

my famous sun hats. Yeah. And three SLAs of sunscreen to the point where my eyes sting half of half of my days because I've put too much sunscreen. I usually

Joyce:

remember we're about to step into a restaurant to eat and Sophia bust out her Some we're about to go indoors. And she still bust out her sunblock and just squeezed this huge dollop, and she just rubs it on her face like she's an Irishman who's about to see sunlight for the first time. And I was like, what is happening? Why are you putting on that much sunblock? And it was like, hi. Like hi. So we're about to go inside our restaurant. Okay. You don't need to put sunblock on. Yes. But you

Sophia:

know. We talked about becoming old and aging, so I'm just trying to be proactive here. Okay.

Joyce:

I know your skin is flawless. Your skin is flawless. Anyway, anyways,

Sophia:

so

Joyce:

yeah, so book club was where we. Started like actual connection. Yeah.

Sophia:

But then I don't think we still had any interaction until mm-hmm. You just randomly dmd me on Instagram. Mm-hmm. And you said, Hey, are you celebrating twelve's, Pega? Mm-hmm. and then not only did you just ask about the Peggy, you say, we should hang out. Yeah. And It was that feeling like being asked on a date by a gorgeous man. And I was like, yes, I'll, you're welcome on.

Joyce:

Absolutely. I'm gonna say yes to Joyce. Yeah, that's

Sophia:

right. And I was like, great. Yes. And then we met in a brewery with her husband and our um, Kimon was one, almost one. Almost one. Yeah. He was, yeah. And then because Tov was really young, Tov was still pretty young. Yeah. And I remember we were at the brewery, we just. Chilling. It was kind of chaos around us. Yeah. It was kind of hard to hear each other. Yeah. And then Keon was kind of a little bit fussy. Mm-hmm. And I remember you just like. Breasting out a boob and just breastfeeding in front of us and I was shocked outta my skin.

Joyce:

I think it's of goes under when she breastfeeds. She like has the whole like cover. I'm very modest and she goes

Sophia:

underneath, I'm very shy. She goes body shy. She goes in the nursing cover. Yeah. Anyway, I just remember that I'm also like very DAF about breastfeeding. I'm like, my boobs out. Yeah, I know. And as she was leaving, I was like, David, did you see her just breastfeeding in front of us? I was like, she's so bold.

Joyce:

I'm like, just like, I'm like, is that all right? I'm gonna have a fussy child. I'm like, ah, it's fine. Yeah. So I was like, oh, wow. That's something I can learn from her. Breastfeeding in public 1 0 1, you have to just not care about people. Okay. Yeah. I'm like, mm.

Sophia:

Yeah. But other to say, the Joyce and I are quite different people. Mm-hmm. Like we have a lot of similarities. Mm-hmm. Like we're both. Korean American. Mm-hmm. Married to, um, a white Caucasian American. Mm-hmm. Husband. We both have two kids, though. Now, by the time this airs, we're gonna have three kids. We're we're

Joyce:

recording literally in my hospital room.

Sophia:

Yeah.

Joyce:

Yeah. And, uh, I'm delivering this Thursday.

Sophia:

Yeah. I would say we're different in terms of just, even if you meet us mm-hmm. For the first time. you might be surprised by how close friends we are. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because you are way more outgoing than I am. And you are way more expressive, eloquent. I don't wanna say I'm eloquent.

Joyce:

I'm just loud. Just loud.

Sophia:

I'm glad you listened to the Holy Spirit and reached out, but what I'm trying to say is that, I've met many people who are like, we should get coffee sometime and then never follow through. Follow through, follow. Yeah. It just, it just seems like almost like, uh, polite. Goodbye. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, how are you doing? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. We should get coffee sometime. Okay. Bye. Yeah. Great. And it's just like, you know, exists a greeting. Yeah. Whereas. For you, you reached out and you were actually intentional about wanting to hang out, and then you asked about my child and. It was definitely, I could sense that you, you wanted to pursue relationship with me. Mm-hmm. And that's why I thought I wanted a relationship

Joyce:

with Sophia a hundred percent.

Sophia:

And

Joyce:

that's what I got. Ha. I had snagged her people. I, one, I won the date. Sorry, David, get out of the way. Yeah, I feel like that's the thing about community and I think that's the hardest part is for people to follow through on community, and that is like one of the challenges of building community is like people leave it on that like awkward hanging edge and like even. There have been times where I have tried and I'm like, yeah, let's do it. Like, when are you free? They're like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna look at my calendar. Mm. Which is like, the proverbial like, uh, no. So I'm like, okay. And so, I mean,'cause for me personally, in the sense that when I became Christian. And like when I walked away from the faith in college and I came back, I had no friends. And I remember just feeling so lonely. And I think that is kind of where I started the habit of just putting myself out there and having to learn rejection, but also learning the reward, the gift of when you actually try hard. So I just remember there was like a woman's event at the church I want to, and I was like, I'm gonna just put myself out there. And so like, I went up, went to go sign, like, you know, sign up and then it was my friend Bridge, Bridget love you. She like, uh, I'm so thankful for her. She was there and I like walked up to her and I get, this was like totally the Holy Spirit and I just like walked up to her and I signed up and I said, Hey. This is gonna be kind of weird. And Bridget, I remember she was kind of used to getting kind of weird, like she wasn't sure where this was gonna go. And I said, I'm new, I have no friends, and I was wondering if you wanted to hang out sometime. And she was like, okay. Wow. And'cause she had gone through a similar thing when she had come to faith and so she knew exactly like that was definitely the Holy Spirit that I happened to just walk up to her. And I just said like. I have no friends and I don't know anyone here. Can we hang out sometime? I, I never talked to her and that, and then she was like, oh yeah. And she took me under her wing and she was the one who like took me into the community. Um, but that's kind,

Sophia:

that took some courage and vulnerability to be able to do that. And I think that also poses, okay. This is one of the big challenge of finding communities that. I think Some people have a hard time doing that. Yeah. Putting themselves out there and putting out a need of like, Hey, I need friends. Yeah. And it feels almost embarrassing to say that you need friends. Yeah. And I would put myself in that camp just to um, be honest and transparent. Like I have never done that. I think I, I've never done that because may you never have to, but yeah, no, it's just that when I look back, it's like, okay, why did I not be able to find community at that season in my life was because one of the reasons was I don't think I was vulnerable enough in putting myself out there and say, I need someone. I think I. Wanted to give up an image that I'm very self-sufficient. Mm, I see. I can understand that that was an image that I either unconsciously or subconsciously portrayed, um, because again, it is just like dating. I don't wanna be rejected. Yeah. And then be like, oh, I guess something is wrong with me. I would rather just be like, Hey. You see my face if you want to come and get me,

Joyce:

you gotta get my number.

Sophia:

Yeah. And that is a big challenge for I think some people like me.

Joyce:

Yeah, I think it, it's a normal, and I would say like an understandable challenge that is a really hard, it's very vulnerable and the risk is really high. And so I think for me, I think that was really just. God just kind of shoving me into doing it and me being obedient and taking a huge jump. But I will say because of that, and that the positive experience I had experienced from that, it kind of made it easier after that. Mm-hmm. And like when I moved up to San Francisco, I did the exact same thing. We, you know, San Francisco had a meet and greet time. A meet and greet. Then I'm like, Hey, you wanna go grab coffee after service? And the amount of people who were flabbergasted were so confused. They're like, oh. I was like, are you free? I mean, you wanna go get coffee? And they're like, Ooh. Like, now I should

Sophia:

look at, can I check my

Joyce:

calendar? I was like, you're, you know what you're doing after church. Like you wanna go get, and I mean like. Some people were kind of weird, but some people were not. I think I put in as a result, I had so many reps in that like getting rejected or like, it not working out it didn't phase me. You toughened up. Yeah. And so that helped. I did at Reality la like Reality LA we did that often. Like when I was going to their just meet and greet time and we were like, and that was also the community I built in that other church at Riverside. they came with me to Reality LA which kind of helped build roads in, and they were a very, I loved watching them as well, that community that I grew up. Gruen because they were so welcoming and loving to other people.

Sophia:

Mm-hmm.

Joyce:

That like during meet and greet, they would just take in whoever we saw and they're like, come get lunch with us. And so it would start off with five of us and like by the end of service, each one of us would pick up a person. And then there was like a group of like 10 of us, 15 of us rolling out to find a place to eat. Um, so I think it ended up. I started getting like reps in and so it, it became easier. But it's not common. it's hard. And I think trying to do that now as a mother is so hard.

Sophia:

We need to talk about the unique challenges of finding community as a mother. But before we do that, I think it would be good for us to even talk about what community is, because other people might have different ideas of what community means. Okay. And what it looks like. And sometimes we might have an ideal. Image of like, oh, this is what communities should be like and fail to realize that you already have a community. It just might not look the way you want it to. Right? Or think that this is the perfect community that, and you might bring all these Bible verses into it, like constantly search every day and share the possessions and be like a little socialist commune. but you know what? If that's your ideal and you don't meet it, but then you have people who pour into you. Yeah. You do have a community. Oh yeah. You have people you pour into. Right. So let's talk about, what community means.

Joyce:

Yeah. I think you, I mean like when we have talked about it, community are people, and it's like, Tyler and I have talked about it too, of like, what is it that we really desire?

Sophia:

Mm-hmm.

Joyce:

It's people we can do life with, people we can rely on. And even like, I think what's been interesting of like we may not have to live our day-to-day lives with each other per se, but we still know what's going on in each other's lives and we're there, right? and we are there to support you. We are there, whether it's physically, emotionally, spiritually, whatever it is to be able to provide that. I feel like that's like communities, like living life together where our lives are not like enmeshed in a unhealthy way, but they're incorporated. Right. And that they're not parallel lives per se, but they are lives that we actually like, our kids know each other, we know each other. Um, and we almost in a sense like rely on each other like we would for family, like bloodline family. Yeah.

Sophia:

I would say community is a group of people who, it's not a catch up of like, oh, six months before we met up and then, Hey, what happened to you six months later? It's not like that, but you're kind of constantly in touch and You ask hard questions from each other. Mm-hmm. And there's accountability for sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And when there's a need, it, you know, you ask for it and it is met. Yeah.

Joyce:

and when we say like, do life together, it's like, what does doing life together mean? Right? And I think what I think about it's people that we are in contact with.'cause people that you're in contact with like every six months and you touch base every six months and stuff, that's a friendship and it's a lifelong friendship and it's a committed friendship. Right? You have friendships with people where you're like. We only see each other once a year and it's like time never passed, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And if you need them, they'll still be there, but you're not like living, you're not in the thick of it with each other and even with now with what's going on with between Tyler and I and me being in the hospital and Tyler being at home with the kids like. Our community group has like truly shown what it means to be community and'cause you guys have stepped up to support us and that is a gift, um, that we have always yearned for. And so I think, like, I'm trying to think like community is like living life together and like actually. Like, like family members, right? as if we lived in a small commune together. Right. Family. it's a chosen family

Sophia:

and community is where, um, I think it takes time because you start to really get to know one another. I mean, there's always a honeymoon phase in some friendships. Like, oh, this girl is so cool, or This guy is so, so awesome. And then you start to see a little bit more about that person. You see that person. There's conflict, quirks, conflict. Yeah. Yeah. There's little conflicts. There's. Big conflicts, and that's like, oh, I thought we were so alike, but actually we have some values that are not quite aligned. Yeah. Or you might mention a comment that really rubs you the wrong way. So a lot of those, like not as pretty packaged parts of you start to be revealed because you are doing life with one another. Yeah. So you can't constantly be performing. Right. So you start really understanding one another or be like, oh. She, she's this. Yeah. And then you start seeing more of, oh, she's this and this. Yeah. And then you start seeing, oh, here are her flaws and here's her traumatic past that shapes how she is now today. And you see all of those things and you still stick by that person.

Joyce:

Yes, that is community. It's like you are you who you are and you are your real self. You don't have to put up a front and they still love and accept you. Mm-hmm. And that we find ways to support each other despite the differences and that we're able to work through the hardships together. Right. And I think that's what's hard is like, I think a lot of times people think for you to have community, everybody has to be alike. Everyone. And it's not, and I think real community is, and the church community that we are called to is that even with conflict and even with differences, that we're still able to work through those and work past those, maybe even have to heal through them.

Sophia:

Yeah.

Joyce:

Uh. And then even with that, still say, I still love you and I'm still gonna support you. And how do we live life together still? Right?

Sophia:

Yeah. And as you mentioned, like community, you have to fight for it. Yeah. So there's rough patches and you're still standing by that person. Yeah. And learning from the conflicts. And that person's differences. And you see that person, not just that person's weakness, but also that person's strength and that strength feels your weakness. It's, it's kind of a lot like marriage. It is. It is.

Joyce:

I think that's also why you need community is'cause your community, helps reflect. Your marriage and they can call you out and be like acting a little. You acted a little psycho there.

Sophia:

Yeah. In fact, I would say a healthy community has conflicts. If you don't have conflict, yes. Then that's Mm. It's questionable. And, and also that in a good, healthy community, there's accountability. Mm-hmm. And I think that's another part that's hard for maybe modern people where you always feel like you have to just be cheering. Your girlfriend on, especially I think for women, like you just wanna cheer each other on. oh, what? Your husband did that to you. You always have to hype. Yeah. but then not hold that person accountable of like, hey, um, like L's look into deeper and see where's your side here Yeah. As well. Yeah. And, not just bolster you up but also edify you. Yeah. And make you a stronger, better person. Yes,

Joyce:

totally. Yeah. And I think that's like something we desire so much. And it's really hard, I think, when you start layering on children and layering on the parenthood and I think that's why you have to fight for the community, right? Is because. It's easy to use your children as an excuse Yeah. To opt out of building into the community. Um, also totally fair. And not to say like I struggled with postpartum anxiety and postpartum depression, and I understand like just the mental aspect of it as well of like, especially if you have like postpartum anxiety, it's like, and postpartum depression, eh, it's like mm-hmm. It's weird. It's very confusing.'cause you can't sometimes separate it from real, like from like whether this is real or not. And it also, it's so suffocating. Yeah. But like I think, and on top of that though, like parenting comes with so many different levels of anxiety and I think sometimes parenting can welcome. Accidentally bring in a lot of conflicts that you aren't intentional about because I think it's more of like, we have the ideal of community and we have the ideal of parenting. Mm-hmm. And sometimes we could be so tight with how we choose to parent. Mm. That it gives us no space for grace for other parenting styles. Yeah. That just of parenting

Sophia:

styles where you really, some you might be like, this is the biblical way to do things. Yeah. And being a little too

Joyce:

judgey and I think that's where it's like, that's where community is right, too. Right. Is like to be able to live side by side with people who have different opinions. Mm-hmm. Who choose to, I mean there's like certain things where I think obviously you can still call. That's what the point of community, and I think that's what good community would do, is if they see something that is like really out of line versus just preference. Yeah. Then to be like, Hey, that. Yeah, prob not good. Not good, and call you out on that. But like for the most part, it's a lot of time with preference and I think when sometimes we come up, we become parents and especially first time parents, we are so tight with how we hold onto our preferences that it can make it a big challenge. And I had really bad postpartum anxiety and leaving the house to like, even though I desire community so bad, the anxiety. I experienced just to leave the house for a one hour coffee hangout. Like the level of anxiety was just so suffocating that I often canceled last minute because I was just like, I can't do this. Yeah, I couldn't physically even get myself. Out of the home. So like I completely understand that aspect. Um, and if that is what if one of you, as you're listening, you are going through that, like, I wanna let you know I get it. And you are not alone in that. And it is so hard and it can feel so hard and at a certain point. We have to try to move past it somehow, whether it's through help, I had to do a lot of therapy to like get me to move out of that. Um, but yeah, I think parenting adds a whole other layer and it can sometimes welcome too much judgment and it makes it really hard to build community. Yeah.

Sophia:

Plus you are just, you are legitimately tired. Yeah. Going out, hanging out with someone, especially for an introvert like, like I am a major introvert and hanging out with someone is, is fun, but also draining. Yes. Like I go home drained while, but then when I'm with that person I'm might have fun, but I know I'm gonna go home drained. Yeah. And then that. Prevents me from wanting to go out and hang out with people. Right. And you're measuring your bandwidth. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Your bandwidth definitely is so much more compressed. Yeah. for just very natural reasons. Yeah. and then also like finding time to meet up isn't just based on two people's schedules. Yeah. But four people's schedules because then you have to make sure that your spouse. It's also free to watch the kids. Someone has to watch the kids. And let's say we did a group meeting with all the kids, then you better get a word in.

Joyce:

It's like Yeah. You're not really talking to each other. Yeah. You just,

Sophia:

um, literally side managing side by chaos together. Yes.

Joyce:

You're side by side and you say, that was cool. I'm so glad that I got to see your face for an hour.

Sophia:

But you know what? I actually find a lot of value in that because our small group, Joyce and I are in the same small group where almost everyone there have very young kids

Joyce:

and multiple,

Sophia:

and multiple young kids. Most, not all, but most. So having a conversation about efficient, which we are going through, it's like, and when the, all the kids are there, it's, uh. The, the number of times someone would be like, what, what, what was the verse again? Wait, what, what was the question again?

Joyce:

Yeah.'cause you're not paying attention because your brain wavelengths are really filtering the screams that you're hearing to try to figure out. Is that a good scream? Is that a bad scream and is that my child? Yeah, the

Sophia:

constant interruptions, right? And so you can't really have like a solid conversation, why we still show up every week is because there's still value in just showing up and being physically present with one another. Having companionship, even if. Things are kind of messy and your brain is just malfunctioning.

Joyce:

Mm-hmm.

Sophia:

You're together and there's a rhythm.

Joyce:

Yeah.

Sophia:

And there's so much value in that because that lays some foundation for the community to continue on. Versus just checking out. Yeah. another challenge of having community is that, um, I think it is so easy to only hang out with people in the same life stage as you are. Mm-hmm. And maybe as a mother only hang out with fellow mothers. Mm-hmm. With kids about the same age.

Joyce:

yeah, I agree. so one of my best friends, she's single, she's not married, doesn't have kids, and she often talks about that. She says she has a really hard time sometimes connecting with her friends who have become married and have gone to have children, because all they wanna do is just talk about that. Yeah. And there's no opportunity in. The conversation for her to enter into. And there's nothing for her to contribute about being married in, like she speaks into my marriage often, um, and even to my parenting. But you have to invite that and you have to make it open. And I think, yeah, as sometimes as parents, we get so siloed into our life and our current life stage that we. Forget that a community is beyond just the exact replica. Yeah. A community should be diverse. A community should be welcoming to All right. A community should be inviting to all. Um, and I think it makes it a stronger community when you have diversity. versus like only the same life stage.

Sophia:

Yeah. Being mindful. To be welcoming and inclusive.

Joyce:

Yeah.'cause there's beauty in. Learning and hearing from like someone from a different life stage. Yeah. Yeah. And like I get so pumped when I hear like her talk about her life. I'm like, wow, I have fomo.

Sophia:

You know, I actually love hearing, um, dating tales from other people. I'm like, oh my gosh. I, I feel

Joyce:

so bad for everybody who's dating right now. But also I love hearing the story. Yes.

Sophia:

Please

Joyce:

tell me I need the tea. Gimme more tea. I know. And I'm sorry you have to go through the tea, but I mean, we're here here, listen. Sophia and Joyce are here to listen with popcorn

Sophia:

with our actual cups of tea. Spill of tea. Come on. I don't have enough tea in my life.

Joyce:

I know. It's like mine's boring and I know. I'm sorry. Like she even talked about when like, she was like, well, like everybody went out for Halloween. I was like, I didn't know people still go out for Halloween. She's like, yes, Joyce. People who are not married and very single still go out on Halloween. I was like, wow, that's a concept. That didn't even go in my head. I was like, they wear costumes. And she's like, yes, we wear costumes and you go to the bar. And I was like, grownups. And I was like grown. 30-year-old. She's like, oh my God.

Sophia:

It's like, wow. I'm so out of touch. Yeah. It's nice to have people who remind you that, um, there's a whole world, there's a

Joyce:

whole world out there,

Sophia:

social group outside of just this young parenting stage. Yeah. And it's refreshing. Yeah. I love it.

Joyce:

Yeah, I love it too.

Sophia:

okay, another challenge. I think Joyce and I, Joyce will know this very, very well. Mm-hmm. But sick kids, I know it very well and how many times, okay. We, us, the two of us trying to meet up to record a podcast. I can't tell you how many times we had to cancel last minute because of either my kid got sick or her kids got sick, and yeah,

Joyce:

I think if we get lucky, we get two we in a row where we can record a podcast episode. But I think for the most part, it has been like we've recorded one time. Like once one to two months. This is, that's why if you listen to the breadth of our podcast, like if you kind of track like when I was pregnant to like how I'm, should I put literally nine months to record eight episodes? Yeah. I mean, people that should be telling. Oh my God. Exactly. Nine. The, the entire length of my pregnancy is how long it took for us to record these eight

Sophia:

episodes. I know, I know. So it, it was not for the lack of trying, it was just situational. This is just the season we are in where I hate to be flaky, but it kinda is. It's out of my hands. Yeah.

Joyce:

Yeah. And I think that's sometimes something only. Parents can understand.

Sophia:

Yeah. And, and hence, I do feel bad for people without children who have to hang out with, I know parents because we, we sometimes not very good friends. Not intentionally, but we just not, we're just harder, stable.

Joyce:

We're harder, we're not as flexible sometimes.

Sophia:

Yeah. We have to meet at a certain time because of bedtimes, like Yeah. We have more restrictions. Yeah. I remember when, um, we used to eat dinner at seven. Now we, a grandparents' time. Five o'clock. Oh, we eat at six. Oh, that's pretty, that's'cause Tyler

Joyce:

gets off, finishes work around five. So then I have to start cooking around 5, 5 30. So we used to eat at five 30, which is a much healthier time, but it's way too hard for me. Yeah. It just does not work for our family schedule. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Oh, and then another thing I think, especially specifically for Sophia and myself, is living in Los Angeles, living in Southern California. Yeah. Or, but specifically LA West, LA area. Urban areas,

Sophia:

lengthwise. We are not that far apart from one another. However, getting to Joyce's house from my house can take an hour. Yeah. One way. Yeah. It is insane

Joyce:

without carpool. But then even with carpool, sometimes even it still takes. Yeah, I've taken carpools. I'm done. It's still taking me 45 minutes.

Sophia:

Yep. That and another, okay. This and parking. Oh. Oh my gosh. Yes. That's the thing I ask whenever we have to meet someone, like, how's the parking situation? Because I don't wanna show up. Just when you multiple kids,

Joyce:

your car gets a little bigger usually. Not always, but the cars, it just, oh, it's so, and then Street parking. Parking lots. Mm-hmm. Parking levels. Pay parking. Is it metered? Street sweeping, yeah. Are there 45 signs on that sign that's gonna ding you? And you have to find out. This is, this is definitely the la Yeah, this is the LA or urban problem. Street permit. Parking only. Permitting. I'm like, wa. See you

Sophia:

never. Yeah. All right. All right. Last challenge. Everyone's so busy. I seriously dunno what everyone's so busy about. Because we have, for example, trying to get dinner with our neighbor who live in the same block. Uh, we had to schedule like two months in events because. We are just so busy. That's like literally you just walk five minutes. Yeah. And we are still so busy. Like, I don't know, is this a modern, it's a modern phenomenon.

Joyce:

Like why are we so busy? It's a modern phenomenon. I think it's a generational phenomena as well. We have all these

Sophia:

gadgets to make our lives easier and somehow we are busier than ever.

Joyce:

Yeah.

Sophia:

I think, well, I

Joyce:

think the way that we live our lives now, for most, not all, but for many people. It's live and die by that calendar. And if it's not on the calendar, it's not gonna happen. And you have to schedule in flexibility. And I think people don't schedule in loose time anymore. we don't have just free time. Free time, right. Like our parents' generations and the generations before, like they didn't schedule everything down to the last minute. Right. And they didn't live by so many. crazy schedules. And so you had flexibility to be like, oh, just come over. Yeah. Or neighbors would just show up. Right. And we just don't live in that life. And it's like, now if your neighbor just randomly showed up, he's like, you wanna grab dinner? You're like, what? Who are you? What's wrong with you? Are you okay? Should we be worried there? There are

Sophia:

times joy when I wish we were neighbor so I can just come

Joyce:

pop on over. I know. That would be nice. There's differences. There's people I would welcome anytime. Maybe that's his problem. Who are you? Just don't welcome. Who are you? Why are you here on my property? Get off. Uh, yeah. But yeah,

Sophia:

but case in point, um, you can't just randomly call someone. Yeah. You have to

Joyce:

schedule a call. Yeah. And if you like randomly call someone, they're like, oh, I'm busy. But you know what? This Friday at 2:00 PM from two to 3:00 PM Yes,

Sophia:

I am open. Well, that, that is how I schedule calls with my friends. Yes. Yeah. And I'm like, Thursdays from here to here. Um, but if you call me randomly, I'm not picking up.

Joyce:

I know my brother could call us randomly and he's like, he does that all the time. And he's like, why do you never pick up your phone? I'm like, why do you just call me randomly? You know, I'm home with two small children. Why do you. You expect me to answer my phone? He's like, I don't know. I'm like, weird, but maybe

Sophia:

This is a modern mentality where we have been driven by convenience. Yeah. That's whatever true we, this is why we love texting because we can conveniently text back whenever we can. We want, yeah, whenever we want. At a leisure where we don't like the interruptions. Yeah. Which is ironic too, because as parents we're constantly interrupted, maybe we just hit a limit for interruptions. Yeah.

Joyce:

And I feel like that's a hard thing about community is you have to be uncomfortable and you have to break your natural rhythms. Yeah. And that is really hard. It is. It's just hard, like as a parent, as a human being with our culture nowadays, like regular rhythms are just, yeah.

Sophia:

You know how people always talk about, oh, it takes a village. Right? And so, and then people complain about as we, we do too. Where's my village? Mm-hmm. But then when you really get down to it, when you really have to live out what it's like being in a village, I think a lot of people are like, I don't like this. Yeah. Like it's inconvenient. Mm-hmm. It is. Um. Time sucking money. Sucking, like, like it's a drain on my, my, my, my things. Yeah. My schedule, my resources. Yeah. Um, and it's really not that nice. And, and Roy as a community sounds like, yeah. And that's why it's a commandment, someone has to commend us to do it. That's meant

Joyce:

to tell us to do it.'cause they're like, you're not gonna do it on your own. Yeah.'cause it's just against human nature.

Sophia:

Mm-hmm.

Joyce:

that's probably what the biggest challenge about building community is that a lot of it is like kind of going against your own natural instinct mm-hmm. Of self preservation. Yeah.

Sophia:

Well on that gloom note, no, it's a good thing though. It is a good thing. It is a good thing because it's teaching us to be more like Christ. Yeah. Like everything, so many things in life. Everything in life points to chipping away our sinful natures. And our unrest like attitudes and behaviors and molding us to be more like Christ. as you mentioned, like Jesus washing the feet of. His disciples. Mm. he modeled that for us. and it just shows how integral this is Yeah. To God. Um, he loved us first so we can love others. Mm-hmm. And not to say that we have community down pat, because I don't, still don't feel like I have that ideal community, but what I feel is that I am. Building that community. I'm in the process of building that community, and that's a good place to be because I define and sanctifying.

Joyce:

Yeah, I feel like, I think Tyler would ag, I don't know, I haven't asked him specifically, but I feel like we will both agree that we're feeling closer to the community that we have desired for now than we have in the past, and so that's exciting. Good.

Sophia:

I love you too, Joyce. I love you Hugs. Except I don't like hugs. So we do side padss. Yeah, we do. We do a very short side pads.

Joyce:

You gave me a great hug when I was crying. Sophia came over one time and I happened to just like break down and she gave me a really good hug.

Sophia:

When? When someone needs it, it it. I would sacrifice myself, herself,

Joyce:

herself. Her self preservation mode of not touching humans. She was like, I must override and give her a hug.

Sophia:

But it was honestly also a hug for me because I had a hard time. That too. That was a rough, that was a rough day for us, but both of us. Yeah. It was just again, the Holy Spirit.

Joyce:

Yeah.

Sophia:

All right. On this note, we end this season one. This is incredible. We we're wrapping it up. We actually did it. High five. High five. Ow. Sorry. There. It's all right. Um, should I pray? Yes. All right. Do you heaven. Father, thank you so much for modeling community to us. Lord, thank you so much for your. Never stopping. Love your unending love the love that is so deep and so wide. That is unfathomable, Lord, that you first demonstrated love for us, so that we know how to love others. God, we pray for anybody out there who is feeling isolated, who feels like they can't find community, Lord, that you'll help them build that community that you will. Shape their lives around what you desire them to have. And Lord, I just pray for us too, that we continue to be more and more Christ-like, so that just as you loved us, we love others. And through that everybody knows that you are the Lord in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Bye bye.

Speaker 4:

Thank you so much for listening. If you've been liking our episodes, please follow, like, subscribe, or leave us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and feedback. You can find us on Instagram at the old Oma Club, or reach out to us at the old Oma club@gmail.com. You gotta give it. Big thank you to Kevin Lar for our music. Until next time, amaz, may the Lord bless you and keep you sane, hydrated, and fulfilled the way only he can.