Season 2, Ep 1: What God is Working in Us (Mom Rage, Dysregulation, and Breaking Generational Chains)

Season 2 begins with an extremely vulnerable conversation on what God is working on in us right now-- primarily, mom rage. This isn’t a polished “we’ve figured it all out” conversation. It’s a raw, vulnerable and honest one about sanctification in real time—messy, humbling, and ultimately hopeful.

In this episode, we talk about identifying our triggers, learning how to regulate our emotions, dealing with the shame and guilt when we fail-- and what it looks like to wrestle through all this mess with God. 

If you’ve ever felt like you’re failing in motherhood, or thought you're the only one dealing with mom rage, and wondered if God is enough, this episode is for you.

We want to get to know our Ummas! You can find Sophia and Joyce: 

Instagram: @theoldummaclub

Email: theoldummaclub@gmail.com

Music credits:
"Life of Riley" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Transcript

0:02

Hey Amaz, welcome to the Old Alma Club. I'm Joyce. And I'm Sophia. We are two friends in Los Angeles who had so many great coffee chats about our love for Jesus being Korean in biracial marriages and having kids mid-career, mid thirties. So we decided to turn it into a podcast. So grab a cup of coffee and join our conversations and by aching backs, motherhood, marriage, Jesus, and everything in between. You ready? Hannah? Two. Set. Set. Let's go. Let's go.

Joyce 0:36

Hi.

Sophia 0:37

Hello. Welcome to season two, episode one.

Joyce 0:43

We're doing it.

Sophia 0:44

So season two, episode one we are starting this season on a very reflective note,

Joyce 0:51

Yes.

Sophia 0:52

and we're gonna be talking about how we have been evolving a parent, a wife, as a friend, a human being, basically what God is working in a life right now, in a way in which we cannot ignore.

Joyce 1:11

Mm-hmm. Yeah. How have we been trying to better ourselves or what are things that we have been noting in our own lives and multiple different roles that we play, and how are we trying to improve that? Which is like a constant process, right? I think especially as Christians, at least, I believe this may not be resonating for other people, but I believe that because we have the Holy Spirit, we don't get to have the excuse of, that's just who I am. there is chance and opportunity for continual renewal, redemption improvement. And it's not to always be seen, like, I'm gonna strive to be a different person and be better and I'm gonna do all the things. But I mean, it's also to say like, like our previous generations to be like, well, I'm just old, right? I'm like, no, I actually, nope. I don't believe that. I don't believe age is a reason why you get to opt out of changing as a human being.

Sophia 2:13

no Life as a Christian is sanctification, period. It's constant sanctification, and I think especially as parents, one of the. Most beautiful but challenging aspect of parenting is that while we are parenting, we are still going through the process of being parented.

Joyce 2:32

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 2:33

And I was just telling this to Joyce, but I feel like, feel like I'm trying to learn how to drive while speeding through a highway and, because while you're parenting, God shows you so many spots in your life that needs to be worked on and that you lack to be the parent that you want to be, to be the parent that God wants you to be. And so God is exposing you and reteaching you and instilling you the very values and character of him while you're trying to do the same thing to your kids. And I think that is the part that is really tough. Really, really tough. also really, really beautiful in the way that God works.

Joyce 3:24

Yeah, I agree. I think there is no greater sharpener of life and self as a person than becoming a parent. And so.

Sophia 3:34

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 3:35

It was interesting 'cause I posted a thing about mom rage, which is something I think you and I will both be talking about, about what are we working on improving this season of our life. Uh, I made this mom rage post because I struggle with it. and it was amazing to see the amount of mothers that also said, oh my gosh, me too. But I thought I was the only person. And to be fair, Sophia and I thought we were the only people to experience the type of rage. But Sophia, I was going through comments and it's like, I could tell a lot of these moms are feeling the depth and anger reaction that we are to, and I'm just like, okay, okay. I feel better.

Sophia 4:22

I know because Joyce and I have been talking about this, about like, are we the only ones with this, like

Joyce 4:29

Is it Korean?

Sophia 4:30

rage?

Joyce 4:30

Is it a Korean theme?

Sophia 4:32

we are Korean or is it because we are just total B-I-T-C-H-E?

Joyce 4:38

Like psychos?

Sophia 4:40

it seemed like, it seemed to me like other mothers, they, I mean, every mother get impatient and

Joyce 4:46

Right,

Sophia 4:47

frustrated with their children, but they will be like kind of snappish,

Joyce 4:50

right,

Sophia 4:51

might raise their voice a little bit, and, and that's David, husband. He would raise his voice a little bit, but it's like barely yelling. Um. Whereas we are not yelling, we are like unhinged,

Joyce 5:04

Yeah.

Sophia 5:05

like completely out of

Joyce 5:06

Unhinged.

Sophia 5:08

it.

Joyce 5:09

Yeah. And to be honest, it's. It's just like what you talked about Sophia, about, it feels like you're like speeding and learning to drive at the same time. And that's really what it is. And I think it's interesting reading the comments just to see a lot of people are like, oh, it's hormonal. And other people are like, oh, it's depression and like postpartum depression and anxiety. Other people are like, oh, just take Zoloft and like, you know, it's interesting to see what people said worked for them. and we had that one comment of a mom who was like, I don't understand what any of you are seeing. I love being with my child. I have grandparents near nearby and I don't even let the kids go to them because I want my children next to me at all times. Which if, if you as a listener that is you like honestly. I wish I was you. I wish I had the strength and peace and mercy and grace of God to be able to do that, but I am not. I'm very broken. I'm a very

Sophia 6:12

Yeah.

Joyce 6:14

shattered human being that comes from some pretty heavy chains and roots. but like, I think what it really pointed out to me was just like how multifaceted mom rage is and like how multifaceted our rage is, is because it's like we're learning a role to be for our children that we didn't really experience ourselves. Right? We are trying our best not to yell in an unhinged way and excuse it, and never, you know, and we own up to our own faults and we do a lot of things that I think are different. we're carving a new path in our parenthood, right? And in our own neural pathways. And it's really hard.

Sophia 6:55

Going against the grain.

Joyce 6:56

Yeah, you're learning something new while you're also trying to provide that for your children in whatever aspect of, of your mothering It is, and it's extremely hard. And, um, but I know it's also very multifaceted and it's one for deep reflection of like, the 50 million things that combine together to result to this peak moment, and then it happens again the next day. I'm like, wow, how do those 50 million things happen all over again in 24 hours? Yeah.

Sophia 7:34

I think it's fair to say that for both Joyce and I, um, our rage

Joyce 7:40

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 7:41

that God is working in us right

Joyce 7:43

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 7:44

and I think it is hard, but what's hard about it is it's also because it's necessary.

Joyce 7:52

Yeah.

Sophia 7:52

is so necessary to work on this and improve ourselves in this and, and be healed from this. it's not like you have this one irritating person in life whom you can just avoid. are our kids whom we love with all of our hearts and minds, right? We love them. They're with us. We have been tasked by God with this divine responsibility to raise them. and the way that we feel is so blatantly obvious to us and to everyone

Joyce 8:24

Yeah.

Sophia 8:25

and the impact on our kids is immediate, right? We see it in the eyes. Like I have always had temper issues, but the kind of rage, the mom rage that we talk about didn't come out until my first was about three.

Joyce 8:39

Yeah.

Sophia 8:40

And then it was like, whoa, okay. That was a one time thing, and then it happened again. I'm like, Ooh. And then there was one time when David was gone for work trip in Hawaii. For five days and every single day, multiple times a day, I was like just losing it. it got to a point where like to started crying and say, I'm scared of you. And that just like completely broke my heart. But not only that, there was a time when he started screaming at his sister in the exact same tone and manner that I do when I blow up. And that was just kind of a real reality hit to me that it's like, okay, this has to stop. This really has to stop. And one of the things that I really struggle with is that I have been trying to stop. It's not like I was like just excusing myself. I knew this is not behavior. I think every mother knows this is not the right way.

Joyce 9:37

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 9:37

To treat your children. And we feel like we have no control. And then I'm just speaking for myself here. I feel like I have no control, and it's just like that, that scream burst out of me before I even know that I'm about to scream. And for me, it, it feels like it goes from zero to 10. Like, I'm like, come, come, come, come, come. And blah, like, like, like a roaring fire from, from a mouth of a dragon I struggled because I prayed about this. like memorized scripture over this. I journaled about this. And I was like, I just need to be more holy. I just need to like be more filled of the spirit of God. And then the, the fruits of spirit like love, kindness, patience and gentleness, self-control, all of those things will come out naturally, right? Don't I have the spirit of God in me, now I feel like all the spirit is doing is convicting me without the fruits,

Joyce 10:38

Mm.

Sophia 10:38

So I think I really struggle of What kind of Christian am I? Like, is prayer enough? Is God enough? Like, don't I know the God who promised to sharpen me and, and to edify me and to renew me and to restore me. And I hear, some of the testimonies or the, some of the, Encouraging Instagram posts that I see out there have actually made me feel even more in despair because they, they constantly talk about self-control and like the spirit will give you self-control and your patience. no one's born with this like divine patience, but you have to grow it. I'm like, but tell me how,

Joyce 11:17

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 11:17

like, how do I just magically grow these patience? Do I just constantly like, meditate on the word patience, patience, self-control, gentleman? Do I just meditate on it and it will just, just bloom like a flower? I haven't experienced that and so I feel like I need like 1, 2, 3 steps. I don't know. I, I need something like, just give

Joyce 11:38

Yeah,

Sophia 11:39

give me, a ritual.

Joyce 11:41

I know. If only, if only we could drink a magic potion and we're like tonight.

Sophia 11:47

that, like give me, like, if I just like had to do this and that as a disciplinary action and to retrain my brain and to retrain my character and my personality, I would do it. But I just did not know what to do. And there were some people who were like, all you need is Jesus. You know, I wake up, uh, in the middle of the night when my, um, baby needs to nurse and I realize I don't need more sleep, I need more Jesus. So I open the Bible. I'm like, if I did that, I would be even more of a monster.

Joyce 12:21

sleep deprivation will is one of the things that will separate from me and God like me and God will have a chasm between each other if I'm extremely sleep deprived. Like that's just a basic human need.

Sophia 12:34

yeah, in my brain I was like, okay, that sounds wonderful. Like great for you. And I, kind of inadequate right now as a Christian, also didn't God create lots of physiology where he

Joyce 12:53

He created the Sabbath.

Sophia 12:55

things. but anyway, I mean, I don't, I'm not trying to shame this mother. I think it was more, I'm, I'm more focusing on like my reaction to it of like, it, it leading me to this despair that I feel so helpless

Joyce 13:10

Yeah.

Sophia 13:10

thought I had the answer to this. I know the Bible has the answer to it, but then it's not really, give me a one to three outline. so one thing that I just recently did was, um, I finally actually reached out to a therapist.

Joyce 13:28

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 13:29

I've only had about three or four sessions so far, but, um, I felt like I just need a little bit more professional support.

Joyce 13:39

Yeah.

Sophia 13:40

it's not that I don't think God is enough, but I don't know how to make God enough, if that makes sense. And then even as I reached out to this therapist, I was like, I think I failed as a Christian. That's how I felt. And also I, reached out with barely any hope

Joyce 13:58

Yeah.

Sophia 13:59

of, like, I don't think therapy will change me because I don't think I will ever be changed, but at the same time, this is the last resort. This is my last

Joyce 14:10

So your Hail Mary?

Sophia 14:12

can

Joyce 14:12

Yeah.

Sophia 14:13

Right. and so I've just been kind of battling through this thought process.

Joyce 14:19

Yeah. I have a different point of view on like my mom rage I totally get what you mean? 'cause like there will be times where I'm like, Lord, help me because I am empty. I have no patience. And you are like the source of patience in all that and like, help me. And I may need the skin of my teeth. I still blow up, but it's like not as bad of a blow up, which I was like, all right, I'll take that as a win, but I still blew up. You know what I mean? And I think that's like the hardest thing about like healing is it's never linear and I just wish it was linear. Like I wish that there was a clear, like I prayed on it, I did the steps, I've been doing the things I'm supposed to be doing and I should be cool. Cucumber, ama. I should be,

Sophia 15:14

gimme a visible sense of improvement that I can

Joyce 15:17

Yeah, I should be type B amma. I'm type B Amma now. I'm like, that's cool baby. You do you we are all good. Get in the bath. Why you wanna still half the bathtub? I mean there's still boundaries. I understand the boundaries, but like I've been like trying to reflect a lot on what is it that I'm feeling just before I trigger. I think part of it it helps is that I think I've talked about it before, um, where I have PTSD and I had years of therapy to figure out, like basically to help me curb my dissociations and my derealization, which could they get pretty bad, um, if I don't curb 'em. and so in that process it's not perfect, but because I've had years of that, she's at least been able to teach me of like how to stop and reflect back on like, what was that moment? Because a lot of it is like there is a moment in your body that you'll feel, at least for me, that I will feel just before I blow. And I've been like realizing, I can tell I'm about to blow now. Like I'm looking back at all the times I've blown up and I just go numb. There's a moment where I stop feeling and that I push through that and then that's where I end up like exploding and going into a full monster mom moment. And I'm,

Sophia 16:37

been suppressing.

Joyce 16:37

yeah, and I'm trying to, it's basically I'm starting to get dysregulated and I'm like overwhelmed and really should actually be stopping in that moment. But the problem is my kids are super empathetic and so if I am slightly off in my emotions, they are off the rails. And because they can tell that I'm off and it creates an insecurity in them and they get very dysregulated, which then you end up getting like this crazy collision right? Um, and it's been, it's hard 'cause it's like I look back and I'm like, okay, like what happened? A lot of it is times where like, I need to be able to stop, just like take a breath and by take a breath, I, I actually need to get, I bought the kids punching bags, so I don't know about this for you Sophia.

Sophia 17:31

talking about

Joyce 17:32

Dude, I got, I

Sophia 17:33

punching

Joyce 17:33

y'all, I got my kids punching bags, but I'm not gonna lie, I think I got it for me. And I realize that's really what it is, is I am such a physical person.

Sophia 17:48

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 17:49

I can't just, I can't calm myself down with people going, just pray and just breathe and go wooah and rub your forehead in a circle 405 times in like the counter circle. And then like what? It doesn't work.

Sophia 18:03

Yeah. My friend said, oh, what if you try like what? just release. Ah. And then I'm like, oh my God, if I did it, ah, you go like, ah, you and I are different.

Joyce 18:17

I dude, if I, if I could regulate from that, I would be amazing. I do deep breathing, all the, it's not working. It's not working.

Sophia 18:29

you need to

Joyce 18:30

Hmm.

Sophia 18:31

I need to scream my

Joyce 18:32

Yeah. I have to, and I think that's really what, so I realized I need to punch something and I think that's what actually helps me a lot. But the problem is I don't do it and I allow myself to get really dysregulated. I think, especially as parents of like very young kids getting to step out to like hit something granted, like you can bring your kids in with it, but it's like it's not the same.

Sophia 19:01

A lot of times it doesn't feel feasible because at the time I'm multitasking most of the time. Right. You're doing so many different things at once

Joyce 19:08

yeah,

Sophia 19:08

just put, put it down and then just go away to punch

Joyce 19:11

yeah,

Sophia 19:11

bag

Joyce 19:12

yeah, exactly.

Sophia 19:13

or,

Joyce 19:13

Oh

Sophia 19:14

suddenly just like go and go into a room and, calm down for, for a few minutes or something. that's not always realistic.

Joyce 19:23

and the most recent monster mom like moment for me was, I have to like really reflect on 'em. 'cause I was like, this one, I think there was like a paranoia and a fear. Or like some sort of anxiety for sure, I think was part of it. But I was solo parenting. I had to like put the kids down by myself that night. And I was like, breastfeeding Owen. And I think I started panicking of like, oh my gosh, this session is taking forever. Like, it was like 30 minutes still feeding. And then like the two other boys are in their bathtub and they're starting to get really antsy, right? So they're starting to wreak havoc in the bathtub. And then I'm panicking, but I'm not trying to get mad at the baby. So then I just, boop, I flip. And then I lost it on the boys in the bathtub for no reason. Like they were just, they were just fidgety taught like little kids who were splashing water. And it wasn't even that bad. But I think the thing of like, I flash forward like 500 things.

Sophia 20:22

was anxiety.

Joyce 20:23

Yeah. And then I just was like, oh my gosh, we're never gonna get to bed. And I. Lost it and trying to like run around. and so the thing that I always feel so much shame and guilt about is that I always break something when I get into really bad monster mom rage, I've, I don't know if any of you're gonna come at me. This is a really vulnerable thing I'm sharing with you guys, but I have broken our doors that night. I broke a shower head. it's because I don't wanna hit the kids and, 'cause I'm trying not to do what I received as a child, which was I got hit. So I was like, I have so much physical, angst that I have to like hit something. But just like we said, I can't leave all three kids, walk downstairs in a body of water, walk downstairs all the way to where our punching bag is and punch the bag and then, which is gonna take a solid 15 minutes of punching something with a very high amplitude. And then come back up and be like, okay kids, I'm so regulated now I feel better. I've punched it back and you all probably drowned while I was gone. I think that's like really the collision of a lot of the mom rage too, is just like the realistic things that maybe our body needs is something that we can't provide for it at that time in a realistic way. And sometimes it just feels so overwhelming, but it's like your body is so much more ahead. 'cause the neural pathways and the habit of reaching to that rage moment is so like on point that it moves faster than you even realize what's happening. I feel like my body is like moving towards it 500 steps before I even realize it. And I'm just kind of going with it and I like can't get my body to stop and it's so hard and You know, I, I ask God, like for me, like when I pray, it's not so much of being like, Lord, gimme the fruits of the Spirit. I think I do have the fruits of the spirit. Therefore, that's why I feel the conviction. I understand what I just did to my children, and I know that's wrong. Right. And I have that guidance. 'cause I think if, if we didn't have their fruit of the spirit, we wouldn't be so sensitive to what we just did to our kids. You know what I mean? we're clearly pursuing the heart of God because we realize that's not the heart of God and that we don't want that for our children. But it's just we have generational chains that are in our bones that we have to shake and that we have to do the hard work for. And that takes work and that takes, I think, generations to break as well. but I truly have faith and hope of like the hard work that we're doing now. Even though the fruits may seem like they're not coming of our efforts right now, I truly believe that we're gonna see it decades from today. that's what I believe and I think that's what's so hard is like the work that we're doing right now, trying to be better is something that we're not gonna see immediately. It's like years next year, two years, five years, like perhaps as we continually pursue understanding and working through and breaking the chains of this rage, which is so deep, and I think it's beyond just hormones and beyond just. Depression and all that stuff, like I think it's a much deeper issue.

Sophia 23:53

And it does take more than this willpower to change it

Joyce 23:58

Yeah.

Sophia 23:59

will, it's still from ourselves

Joyce 24:01

Yeah.

Sophia 24:02

and ourselves is still a broken person. So you are trying to wheel yourself out of a broken will.

Joyce 24:08

If only, if only it worked.

Sophia 24:10

Yeah. Yeah. There is so much mom rage that I realize it's not because I, we talked about this too, but I, I'm very classic Enneagram one, and so My gift is criticism very sharp and pointing out, oh, this is not right, this is not right, this is not right. And um, the treatment of Enneagram one is that they're very hard to be with because they're not only critical of others, they're most critically critical of themselves. And so I think that's what also God is really to me.

Joyce 24:47

Mm

Sophia 24:48

And in a way, in a way that's like very gentle and kind, is that, um, it's not just that you are a spiritual and moral failure, but that there are things that are lacking that needs a little bit more support and where can we find that support?

Joyce 25:06

mm

Sophia 25:07

And also that there are limits to your body

Joyce 25:10

Yes.

Sophia 25:10

you're pushing yourself too hard. And I never asked you to do that.

Joyce 25:14

Yes.

Sophia 25:15

I never asked you to do five different activities at home so that you can be a good wife and a good mother, and you are putting way more on yourself than I asked you to. And I put limitations on your body for a reason, and if God rested, how much more do you need to rest? and I, I resonated so much with what you say, Joyce too, because um, just last week, I definitely overexerted myself physically and I'm almost like pregnant,

Joyce 25:46

I was like, that doesn't help. You're getting sucked dry from inside and outside.

Sophia 25:50

yeah, but when you're pregnant with children, you forget that you're pregnant most of the

Joyce 25:54

Yeah. Yep,

Sophia 25:55

so tired when I'm doing the same exact thing?

Joyce 25:57

yep.

Sophia 25:58

months before,

Joyce 25:59

They're like, why can't I lift up this Costco box the same? And he's like, oh. Oh. That's why.

Sophia 26:03

the tiredness just really hit, and it was like compounded physical exhaustion. And then last week, there were several days when I had to solo parent and on Monday. I had a solo parent and I was like, I did way too much that day. I belly had time to sit down and like my back was feeling it, my back was in pain and I always had a massive canker sore. I was like, just in physical discomfort. And then I was looking into a night of where I had to do everything alone after the whole day of doing everything alone.

Joyce 26:37

Yeah.

Sophia 26:37

And then, we had just come back from Trader Joe's. I was unpacking and I was like, oh, I need to make dinner for, for my kids. and I was like cooking dinner and then I gave it to them and I didn't even have time to eat myself. I was just like continuing to unload the groceries and clean up while the kids were eating. And then I walk up to them and I see TOF had mashed his entire dinner with both hands didn't even take a single bite, just mashed into this disgusting goop. And he's like, can I have a special treat? guess what? I did not lose it. I wanted to scream, but I was like, well, I'm in therapy now. I am a new person. So I'm like, scream, but I definitely just like, probably gave him the most disgusted look, but then I was Mm. And I walked out of the room because I like, I need to calm down. I walked outta the room. But you know what, my, my little boy has two legs.

Joyce 27:29

And he can climb it up and down that chair. Easy. Yep.

Sophia 27:32

He like burst into tears, even though I didn't even scream at him because he knew I was upset at him. He screams crying, following me to my room. I walk away, he walks with me all around the house, screaming, screaming, whining, wanting to be held. And I had to like snatch my hand away because I could

Joyce 27:51

Right.

Sophia 27:52

being touched. And then my second one, who is 19 months, so you know that tantrum is coming. And so she was like screaming, screaming. Both kids were screaming and I was like, physically trying so hard not to scream that I just burst into tears and that was a moment when I realized I can't just like control my screaming because I do actually physically need some sort of a release. But that's what they said. can't just manage, manage, manage. And by the time that trigger comes, it's no longer even about that trigger. That trigger is just the last straw. It's like a progressive overload

Joyce 28:30

Everything.

Sophia 28:31

overstimulation over everything. it is definitely multifaceted

Joyce 28:36

Yeah.

Sophia 28:37

I, I know God is a very practical God as well and the way, he made our bodies, just the biological of it, the physiological part and all of that. There is a reason why he put those things in place. There are, there are principles, natural laws that a lot of times we go against for whatever reason and think that we should be okay.

Joyce 28:58

Yeah.

Sophia 28:58

And I think there is wisdom in like taking a step back and look at how God created our bodies and how God even created our nervous systems and our personalities and be working with that instead of working against that. And then my thing that I always do is that when I blow up, I just want to crawl into a cave and hide from shame, and I don't even really wanna repair. And I, I do, but it's hard for me because I don't even wanna mention that thing that I just did because then I have to talk about it and then it becomes even more exposed when I already feel so exposed and raw

Joyce 29:39

Hmm. Yeah.

Sophia 29:39

just intense, skilled and shame. and well, um, just yesterday, this is pretty fresh. Just yesterday, I probably had one of the worst blowups at, to in the history of my motherhood. Um, and it was like, it was completely unhinged and it wasn't even, there was no. it was nothing horrendous that happened. It was a Sunday. Um, we came from back from church and then, while Uri takes a nap, that's usually when I get to work out and then Davy watches tove. And then I was working, I meet workout Tove comes in, and I was watching a YouTube channel on motherhood quite ironically.

Joyce 30:24

You need to stop watching these YouTube channels. they're doing you dirty. I feel like.

Sophia 30:28

actually, there are, there are pros and

Joyce 30:30

Okay.

Sophia 30:30

I, I have received benefits and I have not, um, it's a mixed back, I mean, it's like a background noise to me, but this one I was actually interested in listening and NATO comes in, he wants to watch this like Korean cooking show on YouTube. that. Sometimes when I'm working out with him, I let him.

Joyce 30:47

Yeah.

Sophia 30:47

both of us watch. And then I was like, no, dude, this is my quiet time. Like,

Joyce 30:52

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 30:52

have this moment. Can you go out? And

Joyce 30:55

Yeah.

Sophia 30:55

like 20 minutes later, you can watch it.

Joyce 30:57

Fair.

Sophia 30:58

and at that time I was doing bridges, so I was lying down. He grabs the remote control, gets an inch into my face, and screaming at me, Drew like all landing all over my face. And he's like, no, I don't wanna, like, he start screaming that he wants to do it right now. Right now. Tig. And then I completely lost it. It was one of my worst episodes I was like, like just like, just uncontrollable and it was so bad that David came running in and he was like, what the hell is happening? What's wrong with you? And,

Joyce 31:39

That doesn't help at that moment, David.

Sophia 31:41

I know, but I was just like, don't yell at me while I'm yelling at

Joyce 31:44

Yeah.

Sophia 31:45

was like, just get, take him and get out. Because I, I literally, I was literally shaking and it was just like, even identify exactly what it was, but there was a trigger point that it was like week of feeling really tired to the point where, actually just before I worked out, I had passed out on the kitchen floor

Joyce 32:04

Oh

Sophia 32:05

for like 10 minutes. Um, and I was like, just, I just passed out and I, took a nap on the kitchen floor and then I could like, kind of unconsciously hear to trying to wake me up, but I was just like passed out. But physically I was adjusted and I think there was something about this needing to control, like this is my

Joyce 32:24

Yeah. You're like, this is my time. I need this. Yeah.

Sophia 32:30

it would, my body just went into full attack and self-defense. Mode.

Joyce 32:36

Yeah.

Sophia 32:38

And then

Joyce 32:40

That's happened to me.

Sophia 32:41

finally carries tove away like crying, sobbing. just like, shaken,

Joyce 32:48

Yeah.

Sophia 32:49

And I'm like, I just cried.

Joyce 32:53

Yeah.

Sophia 32:54

And I was just like, I just cried and cried my eyes were swelling and I was just digging myself into this pit of like, what, what kind of human being am I, I'm not even a good mother. not, am I not a good mother? I'm not a good human being. I don't deserve to have these beautiful kids, There's so much shame and self condemnation and it was just like wallowing in

Joyce 33:25

Yeah.

Sophia 33:26

and later on, after I was done, like I came out and then I went to carry Tove to my room and he was just kind of like quiet. 'cause he didn't know what to expect from me, right? he was so shaken

Joyce 33:37

Yeah.

Sophia 33:39

and I just like hugged him really close to my chest and I started crying again. I was like, I'm so sorry to mama. And I I said, you are a good boy. And he didn't do anything wrong and I, I was not being gentle and kind to you, so sorry. And. The beauty of young kids is they're so eager to forgive

Joyce 34:10

so quick to forgive that. It's almost too easy. Yeah.

Sophia 34:15

heart hasn't been hardened a way that, you know, like spouses, when they hurt each other, it takes a while to forgive, right?

Joyce 34:23

Yeah.

Sophia 34:23

it's grown up, when it's friendships, like grownups, it takes lot of unpeeling, of calluses that has built over the years forgive. But with kids, they don't have those calluses. they heart is as close to God's as possible. he was just so quick to forgive and I obviously I didn't feel like I deserved that, but at the same time I received that as God's grace and he was like, yeah, you are not being very nice, but I forgive your mom. Like, and he was like, I love you. And I think. Those are the moments too when God speaks to me about his heart, like when I was having that guilt moment. I think there is a time for shame and guilt. I think those are not unbiblical things to feel, but at the same time when you are just like, that's all you feel, that is also not the heart of God.

Joyce 35:22

Yeah.

Sophia 35:22

the Holy Spirit's work is to convict, but the Holy Spirit work comes not just with like critique indictment, also with compassion. It is not just to tear you down, but is to redeem you.

Joyce 35:37

Yes. Yes.

Sophia 35:39

To build you up. The role of the Holy Spirit is to help you grow, not just point out your mistakes and like harp on it, but then that is what I have been doing. in this journey of like trying to change myself, trying to stop this mom rage was a lot of me just like pointing fingers at myself and saying, I'm a horrible mother. I don't deserve this. My kids don't deserve this. I need to change right now, like a drill surgeon. And I think a lot of times, like I subconsciously do equate God with some sort of drill surgeon slash coach who's always like, Hey, what's this? Change this, change this, change this. And, that that is how I view God, that also is how I treat, not just myself. But also my husband and my kids like, Hey, hey, hey. And again, that Enneagram one personality type really doesn't help. always like, where, where, where are you off so I can correct you on this? Hey, what are you missing so that you can change and improve on this? of like, Hey, you are so good at this. And then gently challenge of like, Tell me more about this part. How can we help you grow in this? How can we help you changing this? there is like a graciousness in the way that God deals with us I, I don't always see because I'm not willing to see it. Because sometimes I feel like if I don't have a drill surgeon in my head, then I won't be punished enough or I won't be afraid enough or like convicted enough or feel the urgency enough to change.

Joyce 37:31

Hmm.

Sophia 37:31

But what I realized is that that kind of condemning finger pointing, critiquing only makes me want to hide

Joyce 37:44

Hmm.

Sophia 37:45

and withdraw. Withdraw from God, withdraw from my family, withdraw from myself. And I try to like, just like block it out, like just numb it so that I don't feel shame when God's work is very gentle. He exposes and then he covers

Joyce 38:04

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 38:05

And this week to, because I have that, sore that I still have, it's still

Joyce 38:11

I mean, it's ginormous. There's no way it heals in one week.

Sophia 38:15

It

Joyce 38:15

It's

Sophia 38:16

Oh, it's so

Joyce 38:16

you.

Sophia 38:17

But anyway, I should to, because he had hurt himself too, so I was like, look, I hurt too, and we can go through this together kind of thing. And he was like, oh, he'd be so big. Oh my goodness, what happened? And he was like, don't worry, AHMA, I will pray for you and God will heal you. He'll put new skin over your heart. He, this is verbatim what he said. And I was like, this is exactly what God does. Like he doesn't just like poke and prod at my canker. So

Joyce 38:50

Yeah.

Sophia 38:51

when it's really raw and hurting and vulnerable and it's just like blubbering, a blubbering flash, he points it out. Hey, that must hurt. me put new skin over you. That is, that is the heart of

Joyce 39:04

Yeah.

Sophia 39:05

and this is the thing about parenting that keep realizing over and over, and I say realize because I always forget and then I have to rediscover over and over, that the whole journey of parenthood is closer and closer to the heart of God

Joyce 39:23

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 39:24

so that you know and understand and abide in his heart and then his heart becomes your

Joyce 39:31

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 39:32

And it starts not with you changing your heart first, but it starts first with you really knowing and falling in love with the heart of

Joyce 39:40

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 39:42

I think this week has been like an emotional and spiritual whirlwind for me. Um, and that's kind of really something like that. I'm still reflecting on. But I am so thankful that even our mistakes and our brokenness, even when we sin and when we blow up and when we, feel God redeems those moments, right? Even with the way that we are able to repair with a child, and that, that moment of repairing with tov was really beautiful. Not that it's gonna be an excuse for me to blob again, that moment was profound and beautiful to me.

Joyce 40:26

Yeah.

Sophia 40:27

And I know that it's something that he will also remember because there were a few times I remember in my childhood, even from when I was really young, there were a few times when my parents, um, had a blow up with me. And there have been a few times when. Like, I still remember those few times when my parents, my mother or my dad come at night and then they were lying next to me and hug me and say, I'm sorry.

Joyce 40:56

Mm.

Sophia 40:57

And I, and I don't even remember what it was that they blew up at me for, but there were those repair moments that I still cherish to this day.

Joyce 41:04

Yeah. There was a comment that one of the moms left on that mom, on my mom rage post. She said that the repair actually neuro physiologically changes the way that the child perceives the memory and that without the repair, they're just left with the sadness. But when you repair, the child is left with only just the repair. And that the hurt that we are so shamed and guilted with, in a sense is almost not erased, but the pain is like lessened in their heart and that they're able to move forward because we've taken the burden off of them. And like everything you said was so beautiful, Sophia. And like the thing that comes to my mind, and it was something that came to my mind too. 'cause you pointed out the shame, the guilt and how it sat so heavy and it sits so heavy with me too when it happens, um, is that it was so obvious to me that a lot of the moms too that are experiencing this mom reach, that they sit in that shame and guilt. And as I was reading through that and I was like listening to you talk, all I could hear and all I could see is that like you said, it's not the heart of God that I truly felt like it was the work of Satan because it's the relationship of a mother to child is one that is reflective of God to us, right? Like marriage is a reflection of Christ and the church. Like everything that we have in our family unit

Sophia 42:38

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 42:39

holy and sacred.

Sophia 42:41

Yeah.

Joyce 42:41

better way to break that bond than to shame and guilt and isolate and silo the mother who is going to raise that child into a beautiful human being. Right? And I think that is like the one thing that can like, create such a large chasm, not only between us and God, but between us and our child, because then we're sitting with this guilt of like, you're never going to be able to forgive me for the things I have done to you. But we don't know, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna ask them. Do you remember like, you said you forgive me. So we are moving on. We're

Sophia 43:25

I'm not gonna

Joyce 43:26

never bringing that up again. I'm not gonna remind you of the, of the trauma I have inflicted. Okay. I'll wait until you re-bring it up. But we sit with that and like I sit with it and I'm like replaying everything I've done and I'm like, oh my God, I have ruined my child.

Sophia 43:41

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 43:42

And I feel like sometimes it could create such great despair that it could then break the bond and the ability of the mother to be the best mother that God has created us to be. And I feel like that is truly one of the missions of like sin is to break any representation of what God brings to this world. And it's not truth.

Sophia 44:03

sometimes this is how cunning Satan is too though, because he doesn't do it in a way that is so

Joyce 44:11

Right.

Sophia 44:12

He actually uses the

Joyce 44:13

Yes.

Sophia 44:15

and weaponizes it against you. So it sounds like spiritual holy talk

Joyce 44:21

Right.

Sophia 44:22

it sounds like it's from the mouth God,

Joyce 44:23

Right.

Sophia 44:24

but it's actually twisted in a way to sink you deeper away from

Joyce 44:31

Yeah.

Sophia 44:32

Yeah, and I mean this is, this is not a lesson that I'm only learning in motherhood. It's also, I'm also learning this still in my marriage. And I should add, after David yelled at me and then he took 12 away. And then later on, after I had made up with TOV and we were sitting side by side and I was helping him draw a firetruck. And then David comes in and he's like, are you feeling better now? just having a moment? I give you a hug? And I was like, oh, like burst into tears all over again. And I was

Joyce 45:11

Oh,

Sophia 45:12

I'm just tired. I'm just tired. And he was like, yeah, I know we have those moments. And I was like, actually he had never before said those things for

Joyce 45:23

it's the Holy Spirit.

Sophia 45:25

And I was like, oh, are learning too. evolving too. 'cause before he would kind of like double down on me. but I think he learned too. He learned. To understand me and he learned to love me

Joyce 45:41

Yeah.

Sophia 45:41

in those moments, and honestly, the way he first reacted, I probably would've reacted the same

Joyce 45:46

Yeah. Out.

Sophia 45:47

was screaming at my chat, I, I would be like, full mama mode, bear mode. Right? So I understood why he reacted first the way he did, but then the way that he came with such graciousness, I was just like, oh, I don't deserve you. Because just a few days before, we had a whole conflict where again, my Enneagram one popped up where we were just like, we haven't talked for days, because he was busy. I was solo parenting. And then we finally had this one woman to go on a family walk together, and he mentioned something that I felt was kind of arrogant, so like honed in on that like a snake.

Joyce 46:27

Oh, I remember this. You told me

Sophia 46:29

moment just clutching onto his ankles and be like. Well,

Joyce 46:34

shall not have this moment.

Sophia 46:38

die. shall not be proud. Where's your humility? And he was like, the same thing that I do to myself, I'm doing to my husband of like that spiritual indictment like moralizing of like what? Uh, like forget all the good things you, you, you have, let me just in on this one floor that I detect because it could be something bigger and you have pride shoes. And then I, I, okay. it wasn't, it wasn't as, as bad as I'm, I'm, I'm dramatizing it a little, but

Joyce 47:14

there was a part of it.

Sophia 47:17

there's a, there's a grain of truth there, however. So after I was like, kind of like full, like sermonizing mode, he just completely shut down and withdrew. And then we were like, didn't talk to each other. Then the next day I was like, him because he was just completely ignoring me and I was like, are you not talking to me? What's going on? And then he was like, oh my God, Sophia, you really hurt my feelings. Like, and then he kind of like, tell me the things. And then I was like, okay, I will work on my criticism. But I think you are proud.

Joyce 47:57

I cannot give this moment

Sophia 47:59

list. list the reasons why I think you deal with pride. After I was like, I'll work on my criticism. Right.

Joyce 48:11

after this one, after this one criticism, and then let me get outta my system.

Sophia 48:15

But I, to me, at that time, it felt like I was doing the right thing because as a wife, I'm, I'm called to

Joyce 48:22

You are like knives, sharpening, knives

Sophia 48:25

Iron sharpens iron. Right. Asap. What happens when one iron is way sharper than the other, all you're doing is not sharpening it, but cutting it. Right. And I think that was what I was doing. I was cutting, cutting, cutting, and I was,

Joyce 48:39

You are making Ka so.

Sophia 48:41

but truly though, at that time I was like, I'm doing the right thing. Like why? uh, for me, in my mind I was like, I'm always self-reflecting and I'm always like pointing out my sense. You, like, you don't even, like, you're not even accepting it when I call you out. Like there is your pride. Um, but then the irony was that I was doing a prideful thing. I was actually acting out pride because I was like, I'm spiritually more discerning than you. I notice your pride when you don't, when you're blind to it, lemme point out and correct you and also make a judgment on your character. And I had to have a moment of just like really sitting and thinking, reflecting. Then I think, and then God was like, do you really know the contents of his heart?

Joyce 49:27

God's like, let's play this back.

Sophia 49:29

Yeah, exactly. Did I call you to like indict him and, and make character assessments on him? And again, like going back to like, yes, I have a wife, I should support him in his growth. Right? And there are times when you do need to gently challenge, that wasn't really what I was doing. I was tearing him down

Joyce 49:52

We are coming in hot.

Sophia 49:53

him

Joyce 49:54

Yeah,

Sophia 49:54

Right.

Joyce 49:55

that completely.

Sophia 49:56

it in a like, like efficient four 15 says like Speak truth in love and, and let us grow in every way. Like those who are in Jesus Christ or something to

Joyce 50:07

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sophia 50:09

truth in love, but I was like, I am very good at speaking truth. But not really with grace and love. But then

Joyce 50:16

So hard.

Sophia 50:17

speaking truth,

Joyce 50:19

Like it must be gracious and loving. This is gracious and loving.

Sophia 50:24

yes. And that the thing, here's again, here's the part where I miss the heart of God. Yes, is truth. God loves truth and God speaks the truth. But always from a place of love, and if I'm really going to do a very serious on my heart, at that time when I was criticizing David, it wasn't from a place of love, it was definitely from a place of judgment.

Joyce 50:49

Mm.

Sophia 50:50

And so while I was trying to make him humble, I needed to take a step back and be humbled myself. So yeah, in a nutshell, this is what God is working on me. Uh, I feel so exposed.

Joyce 51:08

It was beautiful. It is all beautiful. Sophia. I know, I think it's hard and marriage and parent motherhood, like we wouldn't be better people without it. Right. but it's the most painful kind of cutting and painful kind of change, I feel like we could have because it's like a mirror and it's self-reflection. Yeah.

Sophia 51:29

Mm-hmm. No, it is Miro that is 10 times

Joyce 51:33

I know it's a really bad dermatology mirror where they like go in on your pores and you're like, you don't need to see everything. You don't need to be that close to my face. Thank you very much. But no thank you. No thank you. Yeah, when I had that huge like blow up with that recent mom rage moment with like the boys,

Sophia 51:51

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 51:52

Ian. Ian said, I lost verbatim. He's like, yeah, you lost the privilege to give me and tig bath time from now on. And I was like, day like, because I tell him, I was like, you lost the privilege to do so he like turned it back on me and he's like, you've lost the privilege to give me and ti bath time from now on.

Sophia 52:12

love that he used the word privilege. It's not even like the burden, the chore. You lost your privileges. You don't get to be me.

Joyce 52:21

And

Sophia 52:21

mm

Joyce 52:21

and then he was, I was like. Well, okay, well then who's gonna give you back when? Like app's gone. He's like, we'll figure it out.

Sophia 52:33

Oh my

Joyce 52:33

I was like, dang,

Sophia 52:35

hold us

Joyce 52:36

I did it so bad that they don't, he was like, he didn't even want me to do bad. and then I asked, I was like, well, do you think we could try again next time? And I can try to learn to be better? And he's like, okay. Just one time. And I was like, damn.

Sophia 52:55

Wow. One time, not three

Joyce 52:56

I know kid. The kid is,

Sophia 52:58

seven

Joyce 52:59

kid is strict. He gives me sharp parameters, boundaries. I know it's hard. It's hard. That's all I can say. Like being a mom is hard. Being a wife is hard. Being a mom and wife at the same time is really hard.

Sophia 53:16

I'm just so glad that we know Jesus.

Joyce 53:19

Honestly,

Sophia 53:20

imagine doing this without him,

Joyce 53:22

no. Like

Sophia 53:23

any hope.

Joyce 53:25

it would be despair. Like I feel like I would be filled with despair. And I think it's the struggle. I think that also plays into my mom rage is that, so I'm an Enneagram three and this desire for success is like a drive force of mine. Right. Or a feel of failure, right?

Sophia 53:42

Mm

Joyce 53:43

And um, and that's the thing that I really struggle with is like, I should be able to do this and I should be that mom and I should pursue these things so that I can look like I am this kind of mom, but I really am not. But I feel like these are things I should be doing and the I should.

Sophia 54:02

hmm.

Joyce 54:02

Is it like what drives me to push me into situations that ends up leading me to be like that sort of triggers the mom rage. And I think on top of that is like I hold a lot of trauma and trigger towards can, and it's really hard to say that, but the journey that we have gone with his eczema and then his food allergies and all the stuff that I have like just a very easy time getting very hard on him, like getting really stern with him. But we have this medication that we have to give Ian every four weeks. And the most recent, uh, treatment that we did at home was probably by far the hardest that we've had to do ever.

Sophia 54:51

Oh

Joyce 54:52

And it left Tyler and I unhinged for the entire day. And it's like one of those moments where I think we as a husband and wife needed to bond together, but we were so deep in our own, like it's traumatic to have to restrain your child to screaming. Right? Tyler had to actually do a full body restraint and like actually hold him down. And I had to like then give him the injection and then it disregulates the whole house. 'cause Ty and Owen are hearing their brothers screaming for his life, right? He's screaming and Tyler and I just trying to stay hyper-focused in a moment that is so hard that we're doing something that's so counter to what you feel as a parent we do the treatment and like. I heard a noise when I went into our bedroom to like, I had to like calm down. I had to like walk out of the room. Tyler was hugging Kean, trying to calm him down. I walked outta the room. Ty his only little kid and he's trying to like, make Kean feel better by trying to be silly. And he comes rushing in there, but he ends up throwing something at Ken and I think, I don't know what it was, but I heard a thud noise and I just come running in and I just came in so hot at Tyler and I was like, did you just push him? 'cause I thought Tyler pushed Ty away and 'cause all I hear is a thump. And then I hear Ty like crying, screaming. So I go running in there and I just come in hot instead of being gracious. Obviously it's a high stress situation.

Sophia 56:24

Yeah.

Joyce 56:25

I just come in and I did the same thing where I was like, did you just push him? and Ty's like. I forgot what he said, but then he like just screamed at me, I got extremely angry and then I like screamed at him and then I scooped up tyke and I just like slammed all the doors on the way out. And then obviously then I just felt horrible. 'cause it's such a high stress situation.

Sophia 56:49

Yeah,

Joyce 56:49

was probably got extra scared on top of that. Ty was so confused. And after we all had time to calm down, Tyler and I needed a moment of not talking to each other.

Sophia 57:00

yeah.

Joyce 57:00

Uh, and then eventually we had to like work through it. Laid it pretty thick. and I had to hold back. I was like, I'm not apologizing. I told, I was like, I'm not gonna apologize if that's how you're gonna come at me. I Yeah. I told him that, I was like, the way you just said that has made me extremely defensive and I was actually going to apologize and now I don't wanna apologize 'cause you, I was like, and then he's like, okay. I was like, all you had to say was this. And he's like, okay. And then laid it on, think again. And I was like, I just told you what to say. I just told you why can't, he's like, I dunno what to say. I was like, I just told you what to say. Why can't you just say that and then we would be moving forward with this apology. But

Sophia 57:46

he probably didn't feel authentic to him at that moment. It

Joyce 57:48

yeah.

Sophia 57:49

you guys probably needed a little bit more time of cool

Joyce 57:52

Yeah. I think the problem, like the hardest thing that like Tyler and I, we struggle with is just like sometimes because of all the things we have playing in our home between like keen. Like a lot of other stuff that we have and like just a lot of medical things we get lost and we end up fighting with each other instead of like staying on that team. And I think that's really hard. it just reminds me, that's what I thought of when David came back and he like came and checked in on you and he was so gracious. I will still remember that time when I like lost all the kids and I wrote to Tyler and I said, I broke the door. And he's like, we can fix it. And I was like, okay. That I didn't realize, but I actually really needed that response. I know.

Sophia 58:35

Yeah. It's fixable

Joyce 58:37

like, yeah. He's like,

Sophia 58:37

are you.

Joyce 58:40

I wish it was easy to fix.

Sophia 58:42

Yeah.

Joyce 58:43

I don't know. Like I think my, I don't know. I don't know how it feels for you, but I feel like this season particularly has just been like a really interesting season and it's been one of a lot of self-reflection and just processing. And I think maybe just knowing that this is my final child question mark, but like just, I think it puts me in a mindset of like, okay, this is my last child, so I don't have the excuse of like, oh, I'm pregnant or I'm post. You know what I mean? I'm like, who, who am I trying to really be? And that's been a really hard wrestle and I'm like, I'm not trying to be this monster mom, but it seems to be that this is the person I keep defaulting to and that's not the person I wanna default into.

Sophia 59:29

Yeah. there's something to be said too about the fact that, um, well, for me, that I'm a stay at home mom, this is my job, right?

Joyce 59:41

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 59:41

And there is that okay, for example, when you have a career, right? You are spending so much time in it that you're constantly thinking about it. like, it actually shapes your personality in some ways. And it, subconsciously does become part of your identity, the way you present yourself, the way you hold yourself, the way you think. and now that my job is raising kids, there is a lot more check marks on the things that I feel like I need to check. I think that me, being a stay at home mom has made me put a lot more idealism on or ideals on myself, on

Joyce 1:00:28

Mm

Sophia 1:00:29

think a good mother should be because this is my job and I'm also very, I'm not an Enneagram three, but I also am someone who whatever I do, I feel like I need to really perfect it. And when I don't meet it, then I feel like a complete failure, just as when I had a career and I didn't feel like I met my expectations, I felt a complete failure. A lot of my tears were over my career

Joyce 1:00:53

mm.

Sophia 1:00:54

and some of my unmet expectations of myself, and now I'm replaying that same thing. But as a mother. Um, and that is something that again, need to bring to the Lord and process it with him

Joyce 1:01:04

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:01:06

because I am very conscious of not my identity to be just mother. 'cause that's not God's identity for me. That's not my primary identity. being a mother is an assignment and it's a holy and beautiful assignment, but it is an assignment, not an identity, but because of how much it infuses our thoughts and our daily life, little nukes and crannies of our life, right? It's hard not to have it become an identity.

Joyce 1:01:40

Yes.

Sophia 1:01:42

And when that identity turns out to take a form that you dislike. And you maybe even disrespect, that's really hard to grapple with. Yeah.

Joyce 1:01:53

Yeah, I get that. It makes me think about our, what is an Umma episode? And the question is like, I feel like our thoughts and perceptions of what an Amma is has evolved since we've recorded that episode.

Sophia 1:02:06

mm-hmm. It has,

Joyce 1:02:08

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:02:08

it has for me, it.

Joyce 1:02:11

Well, it's 'cause we're a year deeper now into it, and it's just gonna continually. Change and Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:02:17

I think this kind of reflection and processing is absolutely necessary. And hard because it is like surgical work, like being cut open, right? having organs removed and things have to be rearranged and things had to be stitched up and things have to, it is hard. It is painful work, it is necessary. And it is critical to remember that we are not doing the, that work that it is God who's doing that work because if. I think that it's up to me to change then. There is no hope for me. There really isn't.

Joyce 1:02:56

I feel like the only prayer that I tend to say throughout the day, not the only prayer, but a prayer that I tend to say throughout the day is just that, just as I also pray, that the boys would become the boys that they were meant to be, that God had designed them to be, that I would also turn into the mother that he has meant for me to be and for me to continually pursue the things that he has meant for me to be pursuing. because like you said, There was a design and there was a purpose that was made. And I think it was interesting, I was talking with Carly earlier too, of like, Carly is a person from our church, um, and she's in our community group, but I was talking with her and we're talking about just the purpose of God in our lives and like the intentional purpose that God has and that sometimes we forget and that we have to take hope in, is that God personally chose us to be our children's mother, and God has chosen these children specifically for us. because as I'm thinking right now out loud, I think God has chosen these specific children for us because we wouldn't be a closer version of the person that God has intended us to be without these specific children. Like I wouldn't be the person that God wanted me to refine into if I didn't have Ian, Ty, and Owen. The specific trial that we have been given in our own motherhood, our personal journey, that we wouldn't be the person like, and also I am taking hope and faith that Ian, Ty and Owen wouldn't become the men that they are meant to be if they didn't have me as a mother. I pray that it's because of a good impact that I leave in their lives and less than the negative. But the negative is also something that shapes us. 'cause it then gives us a drive to be better and that when they become parents, so we'll be. This was great. This wasn't, and I'm gonna be better in this way. And then it gives 'em a further drive. And I also pray and hope that my kids see that I am always trying to be better for the sake of them.

Sophia 1:05:20

Yeah. And also that they can really see us being on our hands and knees in front of

Joyce 1:05:25

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:05:26

and relying on God and always is ultimately pointing them to

Joyce 1:05:30

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:05:31

'cause we are just a temporary, earthly parent. God is their eternal father, and we are meant to be earthly representative of God, but we will always not do whole job.

Joyce 1:05:47

Right,

Sophia 1:05:48

We will never be able to express him to his fullness. And ultimately our job is to be that bridge between him and

Joyce 1:05:59

Right.

Sophia 1:06:00

so that they get to know the perfect father through a very imperfect mother.

Joyce 1:06:06

it reminds me of, uh, something that Jacqueline Perry had said in another podcast. it was Don't Mom Alone. And they asked her like, how do you deal with like mom guilt and all that? And she, Jacqueline, this is classic Jackie Perry, but she's like, I don't have that. And she was like, what? And this is what she said that I was like, oh, it's so easy for me to forget. She's like, it is not my job to make my child whole. She's like, I will never complete my child. I will never make them happy. I will never fill them to the way that they need it. She's like, that is only God and that is only Jesus. And I think sometimes I pray and I hope that that is a reminder that someone needed, and that I also reminded myself of that, that I need too, is that it's not my job to fulfill my child. Right. I.

Sophia 1:06:57

And that kind of goes back to just some of the ideals you might have with motherhood. Our ideals ultimate lies in a product, right? We wanna look at that, that

Joyce 1:07:09

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:07:10

of like this probably a godly man, um, like, is kind and love like, whatever it is. We have this image of like, if my child becomes this, then I have done my

Joyce 1:07:26

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:07:27

When really that isn't even our

Joyce 1:07:30

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:07:31

Our role is really just to guide. We can never put that on ourselves to be able to form this finished product that is the work of God.

Joyce 1:07:44

think that we can like end on is the hope, right? And I think the prayer that Tove had for you over your canker sore, so beautiful, so simple. And I think that prayer, when I hear it, I'm like, wow. Like he's okay and he's doing great. Like he truly

Sophia 1:08:06

Hmm.

Joyce 1:08:06

is still at the end of the day connected to the heart of God. And he still has that understanding because who they become is gonna be highly dependent on how they are connected to God, right? And I think hearing that prayer, I'm like, you're doing a great job. I know it feels so crappy and it feels so hard at times and it feels so heavy. And that even though. The struggle with mom are just so real, like hearing tov and knowing the boy that he is too. Like you're doing a phenomenal job.

Sophia 1:08:43

Oh,

Joyce 1:08:44

Yeah. And like Ian, he recently, um, I think I mentioned it, I had a miscarriage just before I had got pregnant with Owen. And, um, Ian is very aware of the miscarriage and he had a dream that it was a sister and I had a dream that it was a sister and so we're both very firm, that it was a girl and that we had n her Iffa. And um, the other day he was talking to Ty about Iffa and he. Was just so, he was just, I don't even know where it came at it, but he was just like, Ty, do you miss ifa? Do you think better? It's like, 'cause I really miss her. And I was like, oh crap. Not today. I was like, not today, Lord, not today. he's like, oh, I really miss her. And he's like, Emma, I can't wait until I die and go to heaven because I'm gonna get to meet Eva. I was like, why are you doing this to me? he's like, I bet she's gonna cross straight into my arms if she's gonna jump into my arms. And I get to hold her and hug her. He's like, oh ma, when you die, you're gonna have four kids in heaven.

Sophia 1:09:58

Yeah.

Joyce 1:09:58

I was just like, even though he was killing me inside, I was just dying. Did I have unhinged ness later on? Yes. 'cause I had so much grief, like just coming out my heart. but That conversation also gave me hope into the character of Kian, that despite so many of my own failures as a mom, that even death isn't scary to him right now. And I was like,

Sophia 1:10:23

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 1:10:24

I pray that he holds onto that for a long time and that he's able to see the joy in heaven and beyond, uh, because that is such a beauty that I think we lose as we get older too, you know? that was a moment where I was like, okay,

Sophia 1:10:42

yeah,

Joyce 1:10:43

I'm not messing him up that bad. I was like, oh, good. Okay.

Sophia 1:10:48

yeah, yeah. this journey as a parent is really in a, a long perspective.

Joyce 1:11:01

Yeah.

Sophia 1:11:01

is truly a gift because the very people who's about to drive you nuts are the people driving you into healing.

Joyce 1:11:11

Yeah.

Sophia 1:11:13

And the very people who expose your past traumas and, and your generational sins and, and all of your flaws are the very people God uses to redeem those brokenness. I think that's the paradoxical beauty of God's work.

Joyce 1:11:30

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:11:32

Yeah. on Sunday, um, we are leading up to

Joyce 1:11:37

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:11:37

On Sunday. on Sunday leading up to Easter, before the, the sermon started, we were reading some verses, and this verse is something that really, I was like, I'm gonna hold onto this. And I really wanted to share with our fellow because, whether you deal with the kind of mom rage that Joyce and I do, There are things that get exposed. might not be mom rage, but it might be other things that get exposed about yourself, as you go through the, the hard sometimes incredibly lonely and also ultimately glorifying work of motherhood. and I just wanted to remind all of us of Psalm oh three, where he says, he forgives all your iniquity, he heals all your diseases. He redeems your life from the pit. He crowns you with fateful love and compassion. He satisfies you with good things. Your youth is renewed like the eagle, and you know, as almost heading into our forties.

Joyce 1:12:46

Made a use of my,

Sophia 1:12:49

like an ego when I'm feeling like I'm 70 right now with my back aching and wrinkles, frown lines.

Joyce 1:12:58

I still see no wrinkles on your face, but Okay.

Sophia 1:13:01

But anyway, I just, I just love that verse of like, he crowns you

Joyce 1:13:06

Yeah.

Sophia 1:13:07

love and compassion, that he redeems your life from the pit and he sat satisfies you with good

Joyce 1:13:13

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:13:14

and there is so much goodness of God

Joyce 1:13:16

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:13:17

However hard it is, God is right there with us. And I was thinking about how I sometimes have to hide from my, my kids, like we hide in the

Joyce 1:13:27

Yeah.

Sophia 1:13:28

because it's like,

Joyce 1:13:28

We're always texting each other from the bathroom. We're all like, I'm pretending to be pooping.

Sophia 1:13:34

But God never hides his face from

Joyce 1:13:37

Yeah.

Sophia 1:13:37

so always eager to turn towards us with, with his headset, with his loving kindness and mercy. So is, again, that is the journey of parenthood closer and closer to God's heart so that we can reflect his heart to the ones we love. Yeah. I think this

Joyce 1:13:58

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:13:59

good place to, and with

Joyce 1:14:01

Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Um, God, you are so good. I. And we are so broken and being a mom, being an alma is an even greater reminder of how broken we are and how much we need you in our lives. God, we thank you that you have given us the gift of being a mother, of being an alma, because God, we wouldn't be able to grow as humans without this gift. However, with this gift comes our own limited human strength, and I just pray that, Lord, that every elah who is listening in our own weakness, I pray that they feel encouraged and knowing that you have the strength beyond as Father God, and that I pray that we lift the burdens off of our own shoulders, that we lift the burden off of our own heavy, heavy bodies to be reminded of that God, you are ultimately doing the work in our children's lives, and that it is our job to simply turn our children over to you. That even in our own brokenness and the fears of the traumas that we are inflicting onto our children, that God, that you are still a good and redeeming God and that Lord, that you are able to redeem our children and redeem them into humans that you have called them to be. Lord, I pray that we are reminded of our roles in our children's lives, which is not to shape and create them, or to mold them and to be the potter, but God that we are just to walk alongside them and that we have a great dis, a great responsibility and reminding our children who you are and where you stand in their lives. And I just pray that every Allah that listens to this episode, I pray that they feel a little bit more encouraged, feel a little less alone, and just know that God, that we are all in it together. Thank you for being so faithful in our lives. Thank you for being so present in this episode. Lord. In your name you pray, amen.

Sophia 1:16:05

Amen. Thank you for listening, and thank you for, I don't know, walking this journey with us,

Joyce 1:16:12

Yeah.

Sophia 1:16:13

to us. Um, I hope you guys found something that you can relate to. I really do hope that you find some sort of comfort and encouragement through our very vulnerable exposure of what we have been struggling with and what God is working us on.

Joyce 1:16:29

Hmm.

Sophia 1:16:31

Bye.

1:16:33

Thank you so much for listening. If you've been liking our episodes, please follow, like, subscribe, or leave us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and feedback. You can find us on Instagram at the old Oma Club, or reach out to us at the old Oma club@gmail.com. You gotta give it. Big thank you to Kevin Lar for our music. Until next time, amaz, may the Lord bless you and keep you sane, hydrated, and fulfilled the way only he can.