Season 2, Ep 2: Which Transition Is the Hardest?

We've all wondered: Which transition is actually the hardest—going from 0 to 1, 1 to 2, or 2 to 3? News Flash: Each stage comes with its special spice! 

In this episode, we compare notes from our own experiences and get honest about what each stage really feels like. From the identity shock of becoming a mom for the first time, to the emotional and logistical chaos of adding more kids, we break down the unique challenges of each transition.

•  Why 0→1 can feel like a complete shock to the system
•  How 1→2 shifts your expectations (and your priorities) 
•  Why 2→3 might be the most chaotic… but also the most confident

If you're pregnant right now, or considering adding another child, or looking for fellow mothers to relate to, this episode is for you.

We want to get to know our Ummas! You can find Sophia and Joyce: 

Instagram: @theoldummaclub

Email: theoldummaclub@gmail.com

Music credits:
"Life of Riley" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Transcript

0:02

Hey Amaz, welcome to the Old Alma Club. I'm Joyce. And I'm Sophia. We are two friends in Los Angeles who had so many great coffee chats about our love for Jesus being Korean in biracial marriages and having kids mid-career, mid thirties. So we decided to turn it into a podcast. So grab a cup of coffee and join our conversations and by aching backs, motherhood, marriage, Jesus, and everything in between. You ready? Hannah? Two. Set. Set. Let's go. Let's go.

Sophia 0:36

Hey, almost,

Joyce 0:39

We are here season two, episode two.

Sophia 0:44

two. Yes. Season two, episode two. So today we are gonna talk about transitions. And this is something that I feel like lot of pregnant moms of first time kids will

Joyce 0:55

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 0:56

I mean, they don't even have the baby yet, but they're saying like, oh, what is, what is it like to have two kids or three kids? Um, so we're gonna talk about that today. Going from zero to one or one to two, and then two to three for Joyce. I can speak to that. And talking about which has been the toughest, which has been the easiest. Um, what are the unique challenges to each transition? So this is, I think this is gonna be a fun episode.

Joyce 1:19

Yeah, because we talk about it all the time.

Sophia 1:21

Yeah, and I think like, I wanna know what it's like going from two to three, because that's going to be me soon. So I would love to hear from you too.

Joyce 1:31

All right. Well, should we talk about our transition from going zero to one? Because that was a special, unique, especially because for us, we became moms during COVID.

Sophia 1:39

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 1:40

Oh, COVID Corona.

Sophia 1:46

Oh my gosh, that feels Like such a long time ago, it was just like blip, the dark ages.

Joyce 1:51

Yeah. And it transformed so much after it. It's like nothing's really been the same since. Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:57

Yeah. We are still living the repercussions. The re re ations, I don't know

Joyce 2:02

Reverberations, repercussions,

Sophia 2:06

Yes.

Joyce 2:07

all of it.

Sophia 2:08

anyway, let's recap the ages of our

Joyce 2:11

Oh yeah.

Sophia 2:11

and how many we have. So, Joyce, um, Ian is your first. Ian is how

Joyce 2:16

Yeah. So Kian is four and a half right now. Uh, Ty, my second just became two and a half, uh, and my youngest Owen is four and a half months.

Sophia 2:29

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 2:30

And yours, Sophia.

Sophia 2:31

to my first is, um, he's gonna turn four in two

Joyce 2:36

Oh,

Sophia 2:38

And then Uri is 19 months. Then the third is still baking in my womb. he or she is, um, what is it, 15

Joyce 2:46

oh, 15 weeks

Sophia 2:48

Yeah. Second trimester,

Joyce 2:49

finally. Like, thankfully. Uh, yeah, so I think because like going from zero to one is obviously a big shocker, right? Like it's. Just 'cause it's a whole new realm. You don't know what you're doing.

Sophia 3:02

wait, wait, wait. Let's say,

Joyce 3:05

Yes.

Sophia 3:05

which just let it out. Which one has been the hardest transition? Zero to one, one to two, or

Joyce 3:11

Two to three. Yeah.

Sophia 3:14

Well, this, that sucks. Take it back. No. Good. Wrong. Dang.

Joyce 3:24

Okay. You know why though? It's because of the age gap like I'm hitting. I have a 4-year-old, a 2-year-old, and a newborn, right? We all know twos comes with big feelings. And newsflash, for those of you who don't have four year olds, four comes with big feelings too, plus attitude.

Sophia 3:44

we have tons of

Joyce 3:45

Yeah.

Sophia 3:46

That's what

Joyce 3:46

Yeah. Lots of SaaS. Like it's so fun as a parent to just see like their creativity and their individualism and just like all that, but it's hard 'cause it's like they really want to be independent, but they have absolutely no skillset to be independent. Twos are just the. Especially in my two, my 2-year-old is like a feral animal. He's just feral. So I have this feral emotional 2-year-old child who is my koala Velcro baby. And then I have the Just Dying for Independence, 4-year-old. And then the, thankfully the newborn is pretty chill. Like thankfully Owen is pretty chill and he's just like along for the ride right now. Lord knows what he's gonna be like when he's older.

Sophia 4:31

you have toddlers and preschoolers, you're like, oh, babies are

Joyce 4:35

Yeah, you are like, this is great.

Sophia 4:37

they cry and then they get, they wake up and during the night, but after, other than that, you don't have to deal with the attitude.

Joyce 4:42

talk well, they kind of talk. They like babble though.

Sophia 4:47

That

Joyce 4:48

Yeah.

Sophia 4:48

I, I am just so tired of the why, why, why,

Joyce 4:51

Yeah.

Sophia 4:52

never ending wise.

Joyce 4:53

Why? Why, but why?

Sophia 4:57

Yeah.

Joyce 4:57

like, I don't mind it in a sense because it double checks my logic. Right? when they ask why I am like, is this a logical thing that I'm doing, you know what I mean? And I'm like, no, this is, this is reasonable. This is definitely reasonable. Like it makes me question and stop what I'm doing to make sure I'm not Just a triggered mess of like saying hello, just do it. You know what I mean? But

Sophia 5:20

Yeah, but that takes too much

Joyce 5:21

yeah.

Sophia 5:22

No, I, I, I, sometimes I'm like, okay, you need to stop asking

Joyce 5:25

yeah, just stop talking. So just

Sophia 5:28

So just like, anyway, why is two to three the hottest for

Joyce 5:35

to three is hard in the sense of, I would say two, going from two to three. I feel the most confident. Like I have the most confidence, the greatest amount of joy I wanna say with my kids. Like even how I handled Kian to tie to Owen is very different. And like with Owen, like I'm not as like ginger of like, oh, should I kiss him? Like, how, what should I do? You know what I mean? Like I'm just this full heart and in a sense there's a lot of beauty in that. Like I just feel. Confident of who I am as an oma. Like I feel good, like people kind of like, you know, give me like looks and I'm like, you don't have to agree with me, but just do what I need you to do, kind of deal. And I know how to be much more firm in mama bear mode when I need to be in medical system, like all that stuff.

Sophia 6:27

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 6:28

let people question me. So there's, I think in that sense there's a lot of goodness. It's just more of there, the schedules and the schedules are very different. When two to one, right? Their schedules are still kind of similar in a sense because they're still young and they're both napping and even though their needs are high, it's kind of similar in that they just need attention. They need presents and they need naps and snacks, like, you know what I mean? It was much more simple before.

Sophia 6:59

Yeah.

Joyce 6:59

Their needs are so much greater and their schedule is actually a little harder to manage. 'cause they actually need to go outside. They actually need to be engaged with things. Uh, when it's just my 2-year-old and the baby, like, we're, we're pretty chill, we're kosher. We can get away with just hanging out around the house. Right? so the needs are different and they're much more. Varietal and they take more schedules and they take more space and they take more logistical like do, do do, do. Right.

Sophia 7:29

Yeah.

Joyce 7:30

And doctor appointments. You have like three kids, you have to figure out how to like manage. And you're like calling doctor, am I allowed to, uh, bring all three kids? And they all say, no, you can bring one. So I'm like, I'll figure out which child to bring.

Sophia 7:45

I hate those doctor's

Joyce 7:46

Yeah,

Sophia 7:47

Yeah.

Joyce 7:47

it's like, I get it, like Owen has a hematology appointment, like he has a hematologist, and so it's a lot of, he's. One of their mild cases. And the nurses just love when he comes 'cause they don't have like little babies. So they all just come into the room to look at the babies. But a lot of their patients are all like, have cancer, have like blood disorders. So they're very careful about who they allow to come in, which is fair. They usually say like no children 'cause they don't want germs coming in. so then that's even harder 'cause then I have two kids, I have to figure out. Where to house them like and like it is just all this other stuff. So I think it's hard in that there's more logistics, but it's easier in that my confidence as an OMA and my decision making tree, like I can move through that faster. Like, I can come to conclusions faster. I can decide with more assurance and assertiveness. and there's familiarity in things. I have a greater amount of framework, but it's just harder 'cause like logistics and emotions and needs are too varietal. There's too much of a spectrum now.

Sophia 8:59

Yeah. So logistically it's harder, but maybe mentally it's a little easier. But that, wait, actually, no. It does sound like there's a lot of mental overload.

Joyce 9:11

Yes, mentally, it's just 'cause You just added a whole other kids schedule, right? So now there's three nap schedules. If your oldest naps, my oldest does not nap. So now I am like, what do I do with the oldest while the other two naps? But yet I still have my own things I need to get done. And so there's just, it's just that was hard in that sense, but I think because you have more confidence, it feels a little easier in other ways.

Sophia 9:40

As in like, it doesn't feel as impossible,

Joyce 9:42

Yeah. And not as like confusing because you're like, oh, I've gone through this. Let's just do this. And you're kind of more comfortable with not having things be perfect. I think when you're going from one to two, you still have some of the expectations and hopes that you had of when you had the one child.

Sophia 10:03

Yeah, that the second try is gonna be, that experience is gonna be like the

Joyce 10:06

And you're trying to maintain a certain level of like perfectionism in a sense where like, you know, you're like idealism, right? You're like, this is like ideal. This is how I want it to be. Let's try to make this ideal. Uh, and then when you have the third, you're like, well, that's out the door. There is, you're like, we're just trying to survive. Just trying to survive.

Sophia 10:27

Yeah. I remember asking my brother who has three

Joyce 10:29

Yeah.

Sophia 10:30

I was like, Hey, how is it like being having three kids? He's like, who is just

Joyce 10:33

Yeah, you just try to survive. Yeah,

Sophia 10:37

changes as I get older, though.

Joyce 10:39

well, there's like a family in our church and, uh, they have four kids and their kids are a kind of a spread gamut, but their youngest is the same age as Ty. They're literally three days apart, two, three days apart. Um, and their oldest is nine. So it's like a seven year gap. But when I was talking to them and they're all like, yeah, it doesn't get easier. It just gets different. And I was like, cool. Cool.

Sophia 11:06

Thanks. Thank you for the glimmer of hope you

Joyce 11:09

Yeah, they're like, it's just different. And same thing with my, one of my friends, she has four kids with this very similar age gap and she's just like, yeah, it doesn't get easy. She's like, but it gets different and the problems are bigger. And it's true. 'cause her oldest is now dealing with like bullying and it's like. that's a very different problem and harder problem versus like right now I'm like, just go to sleep. But the exhaustion, right, they're less tired in that sense, but they're still dealing with like a crazier different load.

Sophia 11:43

Yeah, I bet there's a lot more emotional

Joyce 11:45

I think it's much more like emotional. And psychological and like mental versus like right now I think it's very physical and um, yeah, that same friend who has four kids, like her middle two are like one year apart. She found out she's pregnant with her third child while she was like three, four months postpartum. Yeah. So they're Irish twins. So. She was at, at one point, she had three kids, like three and under. Right. And so she, she was like,

Sophia 12:17

goodness.

Joyce 12:17

and so when I tell her, talk to her about Mya, she's like, Joyce, you're just in the thick of it. Like, I get it. And she's like, it is hard. She's like, I remember those times I broke a door. And I was like, yeah, I broke a couple of doors. She's like, yeah. I, it's okay. she's like, you're just so, 'cause the kids are so needy and they physically really need you. They're demanding in all ways possible. And so it's it is hard. I think that's why it's hard. that's why I felt like two to three is hard is 'cause I'm like, oh my God, I have so many things that need me like. So many little humans that need me in very different ways.

Sophia 12:57

Mm-hmm. It's not just here have a snack, but you have to meet each individual need in

Joyce 13:02

yeah.

Sophia 13:03

different mental capa

Joyce 13:05

Yeah. And they're different. They're not, they're not the same like one to two, like the 2-year-old like you can still get away with giving them the same needs, but like once it gets to two to three, like the age gap spread is like so much bigger. So. That is where I was like, oh, oh, this is a lot. I don't know. So, uh, I'm sorry to, uh,

Sophia 13:28

I, okay.

Joyce 13:29

I, I've warned you, and now you know

Sophia 13:32

Yeah, now I know, but I've always met each mothering stage with expecting the

Joyce 13:38

mm-hmm.

Sophia 13:39

and then just be pleasantly surprised when it's not as hellish. As I

Joyce 13:43

That's what I feel like,

Sophia 13:44

be expecting

Joyce 13:45

that's what I feel like is the best way to go to motherhood.

Sophia 13:48

that's the right attitude to have. Just expect

Joyce 13:50

Just expect it to be horrible. And then you're like, oh, this is actually not bad.

Sophia 13:54

yeah,

Joyce 13:56

Okay.

Sophia 13:57

No, I, no idealism here.

Joyce 14:01

Yeah. I mean, I think it's like, it depends also like on. Your amount of help, right? Like it is easier in a sense with going to two to three because my oldest now is in preschool versus when I went from one to two,

Sophia 14:16

Yeah. Both

Joyce 14:17

both kids were home.

Sophia 14:18

at

Joyce 14:18

And granted, I still have two kids home. But it, it by this time, like you have a level of confidence and it depends on the temperament, but we'll see. Now I'm gonna have three kids all at home starting, uh, this week. So. Pray for me.

Sophia 14:31

Well, for me, I think for me, no, not, I think, I know Juror two one was the hottest. And

Joyce 14:37

to one was hard.

Sophia 14:39

it was such a shock to my entire system, um, because I first of all, I didn't know I was pregnant with Tova until I was six

Joyce 14:49

Yeah. You had a very different journey.

Sophia 14:51

and he was born premature. He was born five weeks early, so I went from like, oh shoot, I am pregnant to, oh, three months later, here's the baby. just such a short transition from realizing I was pregnant to actually physically holding the child in my hands. I mean this, this is a full confession, but when TOV was born, I had an infection. Um, so they had to put TOV in the

Joyce 15:17

Hmm.

Sophia 15:18

And because he was premature and I wasn't allowed to see him for 24 hours because in case like I was gonna infect him and then he's

Joyce 15:25

Hmm.

Sophia 15:26

the other babies in the nicu. And when I say this to mothers, they're like, oh, your heart must have been breaking. But after he was whisked off to the nicu, I literally forgot

Joyce 15:37

Yeah.

Sophia 15:38

I forgot that I had a child. it was just like I went back to my old life. I didn't think my mind could shift abruptly literally overnight from like not having a child to being a mother

Joyce 15:51

Well, it's also a very different perspective 'cause like you weren't trying to have a kid. Right? So your mind mindset was so different. Like you weren't trying actively to have a kid,

Sophia 16:00

No,

Joyce 16:01

you barely had time. Yeah.

Sophia 16:03

Yeah. I didn't wanna have a kid. And every time I saw a baby, I was like, oh, thank God I don't have one of those. that was

Joyce 16:11

and God's like, just wait, Sophia,

Sophia 16:13

I know. And then,

Joyce 16:16

I.

Sophia 16:16

walking out of the hospital with this baby. I was wondering how this is legal. How am I allowed to just take this baby home? Like, what am I, like,

Joyce 16:27

Those are questions I, I, we all wonder, not, not just you,

Sophia 16:32

a little terrified

Joyce 16:33

you just let me leave.

Sophia 16:34

I do?

Joyce 16:35

if I'm a good mom.

Sophia 16:35

do with this baby? I know, I know. I didn't know how to put on a diaper. I didn't know anything about having a baby. so it was just such a sharp learning curve. I mean, I think every parent go through a learning curve when they first have a baby. But it was that mental shift of, from not wanting to have a baby to like falling in love with this

Joyce 16:59

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 17:00

but then also like. Just really struggling to hold onto my old

Joyce 17:04

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 17:06

not knowing what to expect. and not knowing, um, whether I can work out like I used to anymore. and realizing that I can't eat dinner, um, leisurely anymore. I can just go for leisurely walk every night after dinner. Um, like all my time was, so I didn't have my schedule anymore. I didn't

Joyce 17:26

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 17:27

like everything needed to be reworked, but also how when you have a baby and the baby grows, like No routine is fixed. Everything just has to shift and change with the child as he grows and his knees change and his sleep schedules change and all of that. Um, had a really hard time just losing my independence and learning to take care of someone

Joyce 17:55

but I think that's like valid hardship for a lot of moms. Like even for myself, who. Was planning and actively trying and was wanting a child and all that stuff. Like even with the, that factor of like, that mindset of me wanting a kid and you know, I still really struggled with like, what do you mean? I can't just do, I, can't you what? Like what do you

Sophia 18:20

you mean? I don't have weekends anymore.

Joyce 18:23

like, also, I'm like, what do you mean? It's just all me? What do you mean?

Sophia 18:26

Yeah.

Joyce 18:27

do you mean? It's just my boobs and that's it. I think also part of it is like for, for me, I had time to almost like daydream of this motherhood, I mean, part of it was also like COVID happened, so there was. Already a layer of anxiety. I didn't even know if Tyler was gonna be allowed to even be with me in the hospital. so they literally, two weeks before the delivery, the hospital changed the role.

Sophia 18:52

Oh

Joyce 18:52

yeah,

Sophia 18:52

That's fortunate.

Joyce 18:53

wouldn't, I would've had to do the delivery and like be by myself, like, and that would've been terrifying. Um.

Sophia 19:00

that would be terrible for your first

Joyce 19:01

Yeah, I think COVID really, but um, yeah, I think that's a hard struggle that I hear a lot of people have. even if you've been wanting this child, that shift is hard. And then you're also really faced with like. Who am I now? 'cause you're like, now I'm also a mom and that shifts a lot of priorities. It shifts a lot of things.

Sophia 19:21

so awkward for me when I remember the second night, the third night, the fourth night, David would wake me up. He's like, mom, mom, wake up. I'm like, who's mom? Who, what? Who? Who's mom? Me. A mom. Weird. That's weird.

Joyce 19:37

At least he woke up my room were like, my kmo and Kmo were telling me stories about when my K, like they had my cousin and Kmo was like, oh, I didn't even hear the baby. Kmo was like telling me like how he would hold my cousin and he'd like have to kick my IMO awake and be like, wake up. Your child is crying.

Sophia 19:56

oh, I, I've so had those moments.

Joyce 19:59

It was so funny. I was like, oh my gosh.

Sophia 20:02

Yeah, but I, I think my greatest struggle was definitely just like, not being able to let go of the childless life all at

Joyce 20:12

Oh yeah.

Sophia 20:12

And I had

Joyce 20:13

There's a grieving you have to do.

Sophia 20:15

onto it

Joyce 20:15

Yeah.

Sophia 20:16

claws, just like, slowly, slowly, okay. Okay, I'll be okay with Losing this part and then just losing this part and then losing that part. But there were a lot of struggles just trying to hold onto my previous

Joyce 20:31

Yeah,

Sophia 20:32

and I mean, when we finally knew we were pregnant, David and I had many discussions about, oh, we are not gonna like. Revolve our life around this kid, right? this kid is just gonna go along with us, um, on this ride

Joyce 20:45

how humble, humbling. How humbling it has.

Sophia 20:47

our lives to this kid, And now we're gonna have perfect communication. we're gonna work like as team, right? even though it was like a short time when we finally were able to dream about being parents and build. Our list of what kind of parents we wanted to be. yeah. I'm, I'm glad it wasn't long enough because there was just nonsense. There was just garbage.

Joyce 21:08

maybe it was a gift that you guys didn't have as much time to like talk things up because then you're just like, let's just get thrown into it and just figure it out. You're like, 'cause then we won't create this idealism. I don't even know. But yeah, that, I think zero to one is a hard transition because it's mentally exhausting 'cause you're actually learning everything for the first time. Like the way I tell everybody, when you go from your first child to second child, I was like, when you have your first child, it's like that very first entry level job you get out of college, you have no idea really what you're doing. You're figuring things out. You have absolute no framework of what to do. You're trying your best, but you're kind of fumbling your way through. Right. But when you have your second kid, it's like when you get that second job, after that first entry level job, and you're like, okay, it's the same job, but it's just upgraded, and you're like, okay, I have a framework. I have a familiarity of my role. I have an idea of what is my expectations, but I don't know the nuances. I don't know this culture. I don't know. This identity of this company that I need to figure out. so you kind of go into it with a little bit more confidence of like, I have an idea. So you don't use as much brain work of like, this poop weird? Is this poop not weird? Is this how you fold diaper? Like am I supposed to be breastfeeding? Like am I pumping properly?

Sophia 22:29

was, okay, so then one to two, how would you rank it? So two to three is others. Then what is the second hottest for you?

Joyce 22:34

Zero, zero to one,

Sophia 22:37

Okay, so then what was one to two like for

Joyce 22:40

one to two was hard at the very first early parts. Mostly because my postpartum, all of my postpartum seasons have just all been a special journey. But, um, one to two was like rough. 'cause we had back to back COVID, then we had hand, foot, mouth, and then we, like, we were literally stuck in complete isolation for the first four months after Ty was born. Like, I think we had three weeks of like. People coming over and visiting. And then after that, that was it. We were just done. and we couldn't see anybody. We really couldn't leave the house because of like the hand foot mouth stuff like, and the COVID stuff And so

Sophia 23:22

So,

Joyce 23:23

that was hard and

Sophia 23:25

yeah, I remember your first year being really hard because I always remember during Tyke's

Joyce 23:29

yeah.

Sophia 23:30

you were giving announcement and you just kind of broke down and cried a little and said it was

Joyce 23:34

Yeah, it was hard. but I think it's just 'cause of the circumstances made it really hard for us. And also part of it was, went from one to two, what was hard about it was that's when I started seeing more of Kian kind of behavioral stuff start popping up.

Sophia 23:52

Mm.

Joyce 23:52

And we just thought it was kind of just 'cause he was so bored from not having my attention anymore and not having as much input. And so that's when we transitioned him into preschool. Um, and that helped. But then now that we've had gone from two to three, that's when I was like, oh, looking back, I was like, oh, oh, oh, we misunderstood that need. Um, yeah. So one to two was hard. Most likely 'cause of circumstances. and honestly, we were really in the thick of Ian with his eczema and his food allergies and his food reactivity. Uh, it's, much better now. So like that level of stress, That's what made zero to one really hard, and that's also what made one to two hard. 'cause his eczema and his food allergies were just all consuming of like our anxiety and our stresses and all that stuff.

Sophia 24:51

Yeah. Yeah, there are common challenges with each

Joyce 24:55

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 24:56

but then there's also unique challenges where it really depends on like the

Joyce 25:00

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 25:00

the personality of the child, what individual struggles each household is going through, how your marriage dynamics is, the health of your own mental state,

Joyce 25:10

Yeah.

Sophia 25:11

state, emotional state, like it all, very individual. Definitely.

Joyce 25:15

Yeah. and part of it too is also like. Ty was just not a good sleeper. He is now, he's probably our better sleeper now-ish. Uh, but Ty didn't sleep through the night until he was 18 months old, and he breastfed through the night multiple times until he suddenly randomly self weaned himself at 18 months. So that transition, I remember my mental health went pretty dark. It was dark.

Sophia 25:43

dude, that that is

Joyce 25:44

Yeah.

Sophia 25:45

You just physically just sucks dry.

Joyce 25:47

Yeah. In all, all ways. And so I was just like, oh, I don't know if I can do this. But he couldn't take a bottle. He wouldn't take a bottle. So it's like I couldn't even transition if I wanted to transition to just bottle feeding, like there was just no way that I could do it. What about you? How's your transition going from one to two?

Sophia 26:07

one to two. I think I followed my old familiar why sage advice, unexpected hell, and it was pleasantly not hell. I'm telling you, this is tried and true. Tried and true advice. Just expect help. But yes, one to two was actually. Not bad. I remember when URI was born, there was just so much gratefulness

Joyce 26:29

Hmm

Sophia 26:30

I just, my, my heart felt it was gonna burst with the fullness of it. And there's such particular joy when your firstborn comes and meets the baby for the first time. That moment, it's just so sweet. And he's like kissing her and then he forgets

Joyce 26:44

Yeah.

Sophia 26:45

and he remembers her. And it's like my, my two precious

Joyce 26:49

Yeah.

Sophia 26:49

meeting for the first time felt even more sweet to me than. I meeting my

Joyce 26:56

Yeah.

Sophia 26:57

for the first time, was just like, ugh. I think what was easy was that by then I wasn't clinging onto my old lifestyle. And in fact, I was a lot more flexible in letting things go. Like my, I wasn't like so Stingy about, oh, this is my workout

Joyce 27:15

Now.

Sophia 27:15

Like if it was, it takes only a half hour, that's fine. Like I, I was able to really be more relaxed about things and there were things that I knew what to expect, like the hottest sleep regressions. and I was definitely

Joyce 27:30

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sophia 27:44

Because I think I just felt so depleted in many ways. And even going to church felt daunting, um, because I was like, I, but I only had like four hours of sleep, but by the time I had uri, I'm like four asleep. Great. Okay. That's amazing. and also my body was a little bit more used to sleep

Joyce 28:04

Yeah.

Sophia 28:05

I remember with the first, um, just going outside felt like so much work. Okay, I have to pack this, I have to pack that. Oh, no, I forgot this. And just buckling child into the car felt like a lot. I don't know

Joyce 28:19

It was a lot.

Sophia 28:20

process

Joyce 28:21

a lot.

Sophia 28:22

overwhelming

Joyce 28:22

Yep.

Sophia 28:23

but then with Uri it's like, oh, and then like, like everything's really all

Joyce 28:26

Yeah.

Sophia 28:27

And then like, it was a breeze to take. of both of them to the grocery store. I didn't feel like I needed to leave one of them at home And I was a lot more used to and even wanted to just have my kids do

Joyce 28:41

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 28:42

And I I figure out a better way to be able to do that where I didn't feel like I needed to engage with this child the

Joyce 28:48

Yeah.

Sophia 28:49

And Woody was brought up. As a baby quite differently from 12, where tov had so much

Joyce 28:54

Yeah.

Sophia 28:55

attention, was like just kind of. for the ride and I went out and met people. and I, I breastfed her in with lots of layers over

Joyce 29:08

had a tent,

Sophia 29:10

in front of people. I had a tent.

Joyce 29:12

so

Sophia 29:12

but I

Joyce 29:13

loved it. I was like, all right.

Sophia 29:14

that. Bef, I mean, with to, I would literally go into the bathroom and sit on the toilet and

Joyce 29:19

Well, I remember you breastfeeding a tove at Collective. You're like around the corner, like hidden, complete. I didn't even know you were there until you magically just appeared out of nowhere. And I was like, oh, hello. Didn't know you were there.

Sophia 29:32

Yep. Yep. That, that was me. And would you, I was less free than you Joyce, but still more free for Sophia. So I was able to actually take her into public and, um, I actually made myself go out and have social

Joyce 29:47

Yeah.

Sophia 29:47

because I knew that was

Joyce 29:49

Yeah.

Sophia 29:49

and I didn't wanna repeat the mistake of socially isolating myself. and so. In a way that was a lot easier. And, um, before we had uri, David and I had several months of marital therapy, and that also

Joyce 30:05

Now.

Sophia 30:06

I think, with our marriage. I do remember though, um, with Uri, major hormonal

Joyce 30:13

Mm.

Sophia 30:15

like uncontrollable postpartum rage and that season was hard, but it was thankfully short. But, unlike. I've ever experienced before, it was just I didn't have postpartum depression. But that rage, that just flat

Joyce 30:30

Yeah.

Sophia 30:31

um, because I think my body at that time was still acclimating to the level of, um, stimulation because each child, you have to keep expanding your capacity to be able to, withstand that the level of stimulation with both kids screaming and both child needing you and all of that.

Joyce 30:50

You also transitioned to becoming a stay at home mom for the first time. That's a lot. That's a big transition too. You had a lot of transitions going on right there. yeah, for me, I had really bad postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety after having Kian. My first, it was like horrible, like I, I could only plan one outing a week, and it took me at least a week, a mental preparation, and I would like. I think things over, over and over every possible situation, over and over and over again. And I just thought this was being a mom and I was talking to Tyler and he's like, no, Joyce, that's, that's anxiety. And I'm like, what? Because I never had that. So I was just like, oh, but I had depression.

Sophia 31:35

I'm so glad that he was able to help you

Joyce 31:37

Yeah. 'cause he struggles with anxiety. I've always struggled with depression. but I never really struggled with anxiety. and he's like. No Joyce, that's anxiety. And I was like, so that's not normal. And he's like, no. Like you should not feel like it takes you a week of mental preparation to be able to go out for 30 minutes. And I would come back and I was just so depleted from the level of stress I had the whole time that I like would be done. Like I couldn't physically move 'cause it was like physically taxing. And then I also had depression on top of that. And so that was really tough.

Sophia 32:08

Yeah.

Joyce 32:09

going from like one to two. I had perinatal depression. Um, so as depression, I was depressed during the whole pregnancy. but postpartum, I was depressed. But I think it was circumstantial depression because of just isolation. It wasn't so much like purely postpartum.

Sophia 32:26

Yeah. The sickness. Yeah.

Joyce 32:27

Uh, I did ha I think it hit the postpartum depression hit maybe a year. Like a little later. Um, and I think truly that's 'cause like the amount of fatigue and exhaustion I hit. Uh, and then with this third pregnancy, not as much depression. I was sad in grief 'cause the pregnancy was tough. But, um,

Sophia 32:50

Yeah.

Joyce 32:51

obviously with Owen in the nicu, there comes its own levels of depression or sadness and grief with that. But, I think it's more postpartum rage.

Sophia 33:01

You identified me,

Joyce 33:03

It's more than rage and it, I think that's also where it's like, that's why it hits so hard.

Sophia 33:08

do have two, little flying

Joyce 33:11

Yeah.

Sophia 33:12

wrestling,

Joyce 33:13

And the Neurodivergence aspect and all this other stuff. There's like some special circumstances that make it special,

Sophia 33:19

yeah.

Joyce 33:19

yeah.

Sophia 33:20

The thing is with transitions to like zero to one and one to two for me is different as each kids

Joyce 33:26

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 33:28

Like one to two, when Uri was a baby, when before she was one and a half, which is she's not now, it's a lot easier than now. Once she hit 18

Joyce 33:36

Yeah.

Sophia 33:37

the tantrums coming, um, the, like she wakes up from a naps and then she just screams and screams and screams. Like, you just had a good nap, but then she just wakes up in a horrible

Joyce 33:48

Yeah.

Sophia 33:49

Um, and then now like she's like wanting to be held all the time. there's definitely needs coming up more so it's not as easy to just be like, oh, you just going, going for the ride. So my one to two is

Joyce 34:03

Yeah,

Sophia 34:04

as URI

Joyce 34:05

yeah, yeah,

Sophia 34:07

and as 12 gets becomes four, like his needs are

Joyce 34:10

yeah. I think that's also why two to three is hard is 'cause you have. Two pairs of feet running in opposite directions, but you still have one attached to you. You're like, where do I go? One, do it this way. One do it that way.

Sophia 34:25

severely outnumbered.

Joyce 34:27

That's why I liked caged and gated parks. 'cause it's just like, I'm like, well they can only go so far where I can't see them, but I know that they can't. Perhaps did they open that gate? I dunno. Like there's been that and I think, yeah, the 4-year-old, the mischief is really strong. So like mischief,

Sophia 34:49

Kian. He's mischievous.

Joyce 34:52

he's in this new thing where he's like, I'm just trying to be tricky. And I'm like, no, that is not tricky or silly. Like he ran away from Tyler In the grocery store and he had no idea where he was. And that's like a mild of

Sophia 35:05

that's

Joyce 35:05

such a

Sophia 35:06

Yeah.

Joyce 35:06

moment. oh yeah. Two pairs of feet. And they always, they never run together. They always run in the opposite direction. And I'm like, what the, I, I can't pick and choose which child I was like,

Sophia 35:17

Why would they run together? they need to make maximum chaos. That's the life goal. Maximum

Joyce 35:22

would think so.

Sophia 35:23

they run together, that's not, that's not

Joyce 35:25

Well, I think it's 'cause Tyke is in a, is in a no phase. So Kian will try to get Tyke to come with him. He's like, tyke, let's go here. And Tyke's just like, no, no. And then Kian is just like, okay, fine. And then he runs off and then tyke just like out spite goes out in the opposite direction. Like,

Sophia 35:45

this is the other thing. As these kids get older, their

Joyce 35:49

yeah, it shifts.

Sophia 35:50

The sibling fights their arguments, the screams because one hit another child, and then the tackling Yeah. This the, the relationship that has to be

Joyce 35:59

Oh, the snitching. I always tell him like, we don't snitch in this family. Stop snitching. So I always redirect. So like he was like, T hit me, and I was like, okay, well did you talk with him first before talking to me? He's like, no. I'm like, okay, well turn your butt around. Go talk with Tyke and then you can come to me afterwards. And then he's like, okay. And he goes over, he's like, tyke, you hit me, and it hurt. And then Tyke's like, no. Yeah. He's like, that wasn't nice. And Tyke's like, no,

Sophia 36:28

That's his favorite

Joyce 36:29

no. He goes, no. You hit me. And I'm like, no, he didn't. And he's like, no. Turns around. Walks away. The kid's like, oh, I told him and he's not. And I was like, you work it out with your brother. And I walk away.

Sophia 36:43

Oh, the drama. Oh, the drama.

Joyce 36:46

I know there was like a video that I saw where it's like, I'm tired of saying no and stop. So I've just at this point, made the best man win. And I'm like, yeah, that's pretty much.

Sophia 36:56

Yeah. I mean that's, I how I am right now when I hear a kid crying. I'm

Joyce 37:00

You measure the crying, right? You're like, how?

Sophia 37:02

first. I measure the crying and then I let

Joyce 37:04

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 37:05

And then if one of them comes running to me, then, then I dress it. But I'm not, I'm not gonna run over to dress it. No.

Joyce 37:10

Yeah. I'm like at a certain point too, where I'm like, you gotta learn consequences, right? So Ian will like initiate wrestling and then Ty will like. Deck him so hard. But it's also, Ian started it. So then he'll like come running after me and I'm like, look dude, if you're gonna play rough with your brother and you're the one who starts it, you need to be ready. 'cause one of you might get hurt. And that's just what happened.

Sophia 37:34

it's got natural

Joyce 37:35

Yeah, I don't know if any of you who are listening would be like, how dare, I'm like, look. Like at a certain point, like especially with boys, wrestling is such a big component of boyhood and like their physicality. I'm like, they need to learn. they have to learn that they can't come crying every single time. They get hurt for something that they initiated and wanted and started, and I'm like. Look dude, we've made rules and boundaries. I'm like, don't do it from the back. You gotta ask permission before you start. Don't hit the face in the head. Those are no-nos. yeah. And I was like, if you get hurt, if it's really bad, I'll come in. But if you are just like arguing with each other, I'm like, it's what it is. I'm over it.

Sophia 38:15

Are any bones

Joyce 38:16

Yeah,

Sophia 38:16

No. Okay.

Joyce 38:18

yeah,

Sophia 38:18

guys work it

Joyce 38:19

Was there a cracking noise?

Sophia 38:20

a boy mom.

Joyce 38:21

You know, was there a crack that I heard? Was that a head injury concussion that I just heard? No. Okay. yeah, each of the, each of the transitions from zero to one, one to two, two to three are so unique they come with complexity and layering, but at least the good news is like. We have time to learn all of it. Like I have like so much respect for parents who, who have twins, triplets, quadruplets right off the bat. 'cause I'm like, whoa, that's a lot. but it's also, I don't know, it's like their needs are exactly the same at the exact same time.

Sophia 38:54

I've never had twins. I hope I never have twins,

Joyce 38:57

I used to always want twins, but I wanted twins first.

Sophia 39:00

crazy.

Joyce 39:01

twins first. 'cause you don't know any better, right? That's your first time parent experience.

Sophia 39:05

oh my goodness. You just wanted to kill two birds with

Joyce 39:08

Yeah. I'm classic Enneagram three. I was like, let's be efficient. I.

Sophia 39:13

One pregnancy, one delivery. Done.

Joyce 39:16

I was like, let's just bang it out. You know what I mean? and then I'm not gonna know any better. It's my first time being a parent, so I'm like, I don't know. I'm an empty vessel to be molded,

Sophia 39:25

Joyce, how much you've learned, how you've grown

Joyce 39:28

so I have so much. If you are listening, you have twins, triplets, quadruplets, like I have.

Sophia 39:35

Sstu plates.

Joyce 39:36

OCTs. Nah, none. None.

Sophia 39:40

No, I don't

Joyce 39:40

I don't even know. But either way, I have so much respect for you because it's,

Sophia 39:44

Hat's

Joyce 39:45

it's a lot of mental juggling. Like

Sophia 39:48

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 39:51

it's so much.

Sophia 39:52

you would need a lot of support at that point. Like not,

Joyce 39:55

You would hope so. Yeah. You would hope so.

Sophia 39:57

family help. I don't know if you, any of you guys have twins or triplets, please

Joyce 40:03

Yeah, let us know. Please leave comments or email us or something. 'cause we wanna know like

Sophia 40:08

Yeah. I'm just so curious how do you

Joyce 40:10

Well yeah, 'cause I had a client and she had twins and they're premature so they were in the NICU for a while, but when she came out and then she and I grabbed lunch after and she was just saying like how people are like, wow, we must be so hard. Like having two kids at once. and this is why I was like, yeah, I want two kids at once then. 'cause she's like. Well, I don't really know any different. She's like, it's my first time being a mom and this is just what I have. Like it's, it's very different.

Sophia 40:32

thing is that they do play with each other,

Joyce 40:34

They're bonded. They're very bonded. So there is that beauty in them, and you don't have the age difference gap, right? Like right now, a 2-year-old, the two and a half year old, really doesn't know how to play with the four and a half year old. So therefore there's constantly collision. But if they're the same age, they're playing same, and they're kind of always with each other and they know each other and they expect each other. Um, so yeah,

Sophia 40:59

I mean, Owen started off as a twin, so that would've been crazy if he ended up being a twin I do you feel

Joyce 41:05

dude. I don't think my uterus, that was God's grace. My uterus would not.

Sophia 41:10

Oh,

Joyce 41:10

I have made, and he was huge. He was seven pounds. He probably would've crushed the other twin. Yeah.

Sophia 41:17

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 41:18

There's no way. But two of them, could you imagine? They were both seven pounds, even if the other one was like five pounds. That's still insane.

Sophia 41:27

So anyway, Joyce, what would be your advice for parents going from let day one to two.

Joyce 41:35

I think The more you willing you are to accept chaos, the easier it will be. Because when you have one, when you're going from zero to one, there's a certain level of control that you have. And I think when you go from one to two, sometimes we try to hold onto that control still and that control of trying to maintain a certain expectation that you had when you were going from zero to one. It has to go out the door. And you have to be more willing to accept chaos and be more willing of imperfection, be more willing to let things go. And I think the faster you are to be able to do that, the better it is. And I think the other part of it is really trying your best not to over-regulate the relationship. And I think I struggled with that. And it has its own implications as they get older. Yeah.

Sophia 42:31

What about from two to

Joyce 42:32

Chaos. Just,

Sophia 42:34

for me? More chaos. Goodness.

Joyce 42:36

I would say the, the thing with two to three is it is just chaos. I think it's just, you're gonna be more confident. I'm gonna give that my, like I will say it. Ha off the bat, like going from two to three, I have never felt more confident. And I think a lot of people will say that when they went to three children, it's more like there's just exhaustion and bandwidth. And so I think that's really what it comes down to is like there's just more logistical work. So I think if you are able to delegate better and figure that out ahead of time, that will help a lot of like saying like, I need you to handle this. And I was very explicit with Tyler and I was like, you need to do this. And if you don't. I will force you.

Sophia 43:18

Tyler did step

Joyce 43:19

he stepped up a lot and I think the hospitalization, Tyler's very involved dad and he takes pride in that.

Sophia 43:25

Yeah, and I'm proud of

Joyce 43:27

Thank you.

Sophia 43:28

Yeah, he's a great person. He's just a great

Joyce 43:30

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I think if you from go two to three, I think if you are just willing. And knowing that you're gonna be chaotic, but also know that you're gonna be so much more confident and then you just expect your kids to always run in opposite directions

Sophia 43:46

They already

Joyce 43:47

and they already do. I know. So I think it's just that like, it's just, you're gonna be much more confident. Um, and I think being able to delegate, being explicit in what you're delegating can make a really big difference. And like finding. Things that you can potentially offload and give to your partner and help them be more involved. Because I think that's the danger is if you even going from one to two, you can still carry the load by yourself pretty easy. Two to three is you cannot you cannot.

Sophia 44:16

gonna be tricky, given that, I think both David and I are pretty

Joyce 44:21

Yeah.

Sophia 44:21

plate, so it's hard for me to, I seem to do more,

Joyce 44:25

Or figure out where you can kind of switch is, I think maybe kind of take turns and like figuring out ways in that way. But yeah. All right.

Sophia 44:35

right.

Joyce 44:36

Well,

Sophia 44:37

All right, amaz, this is our honest report on our transitions, and I think we'll have to back

Joyce 44:45

yes, we will do another report back once Sophia goes from two to three. Hmm. All right. Sophia, do you wanna close this out with prayer?

Sophia 44:52

Sure. all right. Thank you Lord. Um. For just giving us all these quivers in our bows. Um, each child is so uniquely formed and each child brings such unique joys and blessings. whichever season we are in, whichever transition we in, Lord I pray that we will fully be able to see your presence and see you in it and we'll be able to have full thankfulness Lord. And that our hearts will be full with your fullness Lord, and each transition, whichever transition we are in, Lord, give us exactly what we need be able to bear it with joy and grace fully relying on you. Lord. Strip what you need to strip down and feel what you need to fail. Pray this in Jesus

Joyce 45:35

Amen. All right, Amma. Until next time. Bye.

45:41

Thank you so much for listening. If you've been liking our episodes, please follow, like, subscribe, or leave us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and feedback. You can find us on Instagram at the old Oma Club, or reach out to us at the old Oma club@gmail.com. You gotta give it. Big thank you to Kevin Lar for our music. Until next time, amaz, may the Lord bless you and keep you sane, hydrated, and fulfilled the way only he can.