Season 2, Ep 3: The Evolution of Our Needs and Desires

Have your needs actually decreased in motherhood—or have they just changed? Or perhaps it's how you've changed?

In this episode, we discuss how our needs and desires have shifted over time with each additional kid, touching on:

•  What's the difference between a "need" and a "desire"?
•  The tension between caring for ourselves and pouring out for others 
•  How our expectations of rest, productivity, and fulfillment have evolved 
•  How even what we need from our husbands have changed
•  How the changes triggered an identity loss, self doubt, loneliness

This is a conversation about identity, growth, loss, and the surprising ways our hearts change in different seasons. Perhaps with  a little identity crisis sprinkled in here and there.

We want to get to know our Ummas! You can find Sophia and Joyce: 

Instagram: @theoldummaclub

Email: theoldummaclub@gmail.com

Music credits:
"Life of Riley" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Transcript

0:02

Hey Amaz, welcome to the Old Alma Club. I'm Joyce. And I'm Sophia. We are two friends in Los Angeles who had so many great coffee chats about our love for Jesus being Korean in biracial marriages and having kids mid-career, mid thirties. So we decided to turn it into a podcast. So grab a cup of coffee and join our conversations and by aching backs, motherhood, marriage, Jesus, and everything in between. You ready? Hannah? Two. Set. Set. Let's go. Let's go.

Joyce 0:36

Hello,

Sophia 0:38

Hey.

Joyce 0:39

we are back with episode,

Sophia 0:45

Okay.

Joyce 0:46

episode Three.

Sophia 0:48

yeah, episode three, um, is about,

Joyce 0:53

Personal needs and desires. Hmm.

Sophia 0:56

and how they've changed over the years as we become mothers, and also even how they've changed with each additional child.

Joyce 1:05

oh Yeah, buddy. Oh, big cough. Uh, if you can't hear that, my, uh, Owen, my little one, oh, sorry bud. I just hit his head for throwing to my head. Uh, he'll be joining us for this, uh, talk too. Oh, but what are Alma's personal needs and desires? The journey, we kind of touched on this on the previous episodes, so it's been kind of a little bit of a lead up to this conversation. We touched on it with a previous episode.

Sophia 1:31

Yeah, you talked about how you are still trying to figure out who you are, and I guess you kind of have to know that before you really know what your needs and desires are.

Joyce 1:42

Yeah, yeah. Like, I'll start off with it because I talked on it a little bit earlier, but ultimately for me, like figuring out my personal needs and desires has been a journey since I had Kian, which is my oldest kid. So four and a half years of trying to figure this out. And with each child, I feel like I've had a whittling or perhaps like maybe a reprioritization of needs. Um, because I have to say with like every child, there should comes more load and more demands on the family as a husband and wife, as individuals and the kids. And each kid has their own needs. Um, and so realistically the needs and desires that I had before having kids really just isn't like practical and functional Now as a mom of three and like with each child, I've had to kind of shave it but I've only had a year and a half, two years really of being able to process that between each kid. And so it's been constantly evolving. and I think for me, when I really realized, wow, I really actually don't know what my desires are or things my interests are now. before I had my third kiddo, when Tyler and I used to have alternating weekends off, and Tyler always had his kind of things that he did that was life giving. And then when it was my turn, I never knew what to do. That was gonna be life giving for me. And I would just be like twiddling my thumbs, like my desires. And I think part of it is because I don't really have that much time to myself. So I think like when I do get time to myself, it feels weird 'cause it's like. Too many options. You know, it's like too many choices. Like you're trying to plan a dinner with a friend and you're like, what are you craving? And you're like, I actually have no craving. And it makes planning dinner so much harder. Right? 'cause You don't have a cravings, you're like, there's too many options. And I feel like that's like with me of like, well, I, I could go shopping or I could go do exercise or I could go to the beach or I could listen to an audiobook because I don't actually read physical books. Or I could get my nails done. Like, I don't know. And I get like, option frozen. I forgot what the term is.

Sophia 3:59

you really have to make so many decisions in your

Joyce 4:01

Yeah,

Sophia 4:01

like you've already hit decision

Joyce 4:04

yeah.

Sophia 4:04

but I think we should talk about the difference between personal needs and desires, because you were able to whittle down and carve out certain needs that maybe they weren't really needs in the first place, but more desires,

Joyce 4:19

What would you say your actual like needs would be?

Sophia 4:22

I would, explain needs as something that's quite essential. like if you don't this need, then you are going to starve, whether it's spiritually, mentally, physically, or emotionally. Then desires will be things that will be nice to have and will be, your interests will be what maybe adds sprinkles to your basic cupcake.

Joyce 4:49

I love that. What's the cherry on top

Sophia 4:52

Like if you wanna make a cupcake, you need eggs,

Joyce 4:56

flour? Yeah.

Sophia 4:58

flour, baking powder, salt. Um, and then that's pretty boring and plain just by itself. And then to make it come to life, you put blueberries or chocolate chips or sprinkles or whatever it is, right? that's how I would, I would differentiate needs and desires.

Joyce 5:17

Yeah. I mean that totally makes sense. I think for me, like even coming down to my basic needs, I have a hard time because I think, especially when you're in like this newborn phase, like the only thing I can think about that's like a basic need that I want is I just wanna sleep

Sophia 5:30

Yeah,

Joyce 5:31

all the time and I just want to eat all the time because of breastfeeding so I think it's almost like for me, my needs right now are actual true, basic, primitive needs of like sleep. Proper nutrition and proper hydration. I'm like, I just wanna be able to drink water at an adequate amount and I wanna be able to eat nutritious foods. And I don't wanna feel hungry all the time because I'm hungry all the time because I can't eat in a good amount of time. Even though I try to plan my meals to be at the same time as my kids. Like it's, we all know like when you sit down and eat with a kid, like you are not eating, you're not, you are not tasting anything. You actually aren't really eating properly 'cause you're taking a bite, getting up, coming back down, taking another bite. You know what I mean? So you don't get satiated because I feel like you're burning off what you just ate. 'cause you're constantly Moving.

Sophia 6:26

Moving. Yes. Moving, talking,

Joyce 6:30

Yeah. Adjusting, like arguing, saying, no, this is my food, not your food.

Sophia 6:37

For us it's always get off the table,

Joyce 6:40

yeah, mine.

Sophia 6:41

on the, on the chair.

Joyce 6:42

Ugh,

Sophia 6:42

my

Joyce 6:43

the butt on the chair.

Sophia 6:46

No, because to will climb across the table and then really just get into my face or into my, my food and I don't like people's face like an inch away from mine while I'm trying to eat

Joyce 6:56

No, I mean, who does do one except for a toddler who doesn't have like their own

Sophia 7:02

impulse

Joyce 7:03

Yeah. They don't know what that, that's like, you know.

Sophia 7:06

like what you said is correct, because there are certain seasons in life when you have basic needs like sleep and nutrition and you just won't be able to get that rest, like all

Joyce 7:16

Yeah.

Sophia 7:17

There are certain seasons where you just won't be able to meet it to weeks full, the full amount that you need, you might get four hours of sleep or three hours of sleep instead of your full 7, 8, 9 hours of sleep. Right? Um, and so that does make it hard to really figure out what your basic needs are

Joyce 7:38

Yeah. I think that's why it's like this existential crisis of like, what do I need? Or actually

Sophia 7:45

out of, you're operating out of

Joyce 7:47

Yeah.

Sophia 7:48

exactly.

Joyce 7:50

Yeah, So I think that's why it's always been like I don't know if I've mentioned it before, perhaps I have, but like my second kiddo actually never slept through the night until he was 18 months old. So I think like those needs, like it was just pure basic needs have been my interest and my needs, my personal interests and my personal needs of like being able to sit in a room in silence, being able to eat a meal and eat nutritious meals. At a ideal amount, you know? so I think that's like really been what it's been for me is like at the season of my life for the past four and a half years of my life, my needs, my personal needs have really just been like being able to sleep well, being able to eat well. and for me it's really wanting to just hit like an adequate protein and hydration intake because, you know, when you're snacking, all you're doing is you're not really snacking on satiating snacks, right? You're like trying to just like eat little bits here and primarily carbs, which isn't a bad thing for me. I love carbs. It's just you need more than carbs in life.

Sophia 8:49

it's not like a hot meal

Joyce 8:51

no.

Sophia 8:52

that feels nice and

Joyce 8:53

Right,

Sophia 8:54

It's just kind of like, just go through you.

Joyce 8:55

Yeah. And I think my personal desires are tied in with that. Like, I would love. To have a greater amount of bandwidth and thought process of being able to like, cook more and being able to incorporate that. But just the way life is right now, like, and how it works, and just even for me, my desire to just be able to sit in silence, that overrides everything. So it's like the one time of day that I could be preparing for a more like detailed, intensive meal. for dinner, I have to look at my priorities and I said like, rest. And being able to down regulate myself so that I can show up for my kids on that second half of the day, which second half of the day is always the most chaotic, overwhelming part of the day. That that is more of a priority for me than. My interest of wanting to cook a more intensive meal and that has taken me a lot. Like, that took me through my second kid to kind of figure that out. And like my priorities are constantly shifting. So like for me on this, in this conversation really is like more of the personal journey of what is my personal needs and desires, which I feel like a lot of us kind of go through that evolution, I don't know the word, but you know, transformation or like kind of get hit with that like crisis almost in a sense like after you. have your first kid, 'cause you're like, holy crap, I'm a mom and all of a sudden and my brain works differently and priorities now shift. And now actually the things that I used to want are not as. Of a priority or just not realistic. And now I have to shift my own expectations. And so I think that's also really what it's been hard for me is like my expectations have shifted with each child and with each evolution of that. And so therefore my, with my shift of expectations, it shifts what is really realistic in my needs and desires right now. Um, and I think for me, I'm all about efficiency and practicality. So it's like I may have these elaborate desires, but I'm like, looking at it, I that's not happening. maybe when the kids are like seven, five, and three, we can think about this, but not right now in this life where they're four, two, and zero, so. I also wanna know about you Sophia, like what about like, for you off the top of your head of your personal needs and desires before we dive into like, what did that happen? Right? So like what about for you, in regards to your thoughts of like your own personal needs and expansion to your personal, desires and interests. 'cause we talk about this often in the sense of this is what I want, but this is not what is happening, but also this. And so what are, what, what about for you?

Sophia 11:41

Yeah. I mean, basic needs that everybody has. Sleep good. Sleep good, good food. Um, rest. But I think. In addition to that, there is a certain need that we also have where we, we need to have that met in order not to meet burnout and to hit over capacity to the point where you are not a good mother anymore. You're not showing up as your full best self to your kid, and you are actually just reacting and reacting

Joyce 12:14

Yeah.

Sophia 12:15

of responding

Joyce 12:16

And by good mother, it's more of like being the mom that you truly want to be. Right? Because I, think we're all, I feel like there's very few actual true bad moms, but all of us are good moms that are really trying our best, you know?

Sophia 12:28

I've, I've never met a mother whom I don't know to be doing her

Joyce 12:34

Yeah.

Sophia 12:35

we all might be making a lot of mistakes in a lot of ways, but. every single mother I know I see is just trying her best to the best of a capability. for me, I think having a baby is so different from having slightly older

Joyce 12:50

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 12:51

like three year olds and a toddler, or a preschooler. As a baby, what sucks? Your energy is more physical, like asleep. Um, maybe the constant breastfeeding, the nonstop cycle of wake, activity. and then feed, and then sleep like that, that whole cycle, right? That is constantly shifting. There's a lot more physical expenditure of energy. And then as those kids get older, there's more added to that.

Joyce 13:21

mm-hmm.

Sophia 13:22

Um, maybe there's a bit more predictable nap schedule and maybe like for my oldest's not napping

Joyce 13:27

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 13:27

right? and then the, the emotional needs get more complicated and more mature, and then they, they start talking and communicating their needs. there's a lot more energy expenditure that is emotional and

Joyce 13:41

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 13:42

and the more my kids grow up, the more I really the need for silence.

Joyce 13:48

Hmm.

Sophia 13:48

And not even just external silence, but even just a moment from my head to have a pause

Joyce 13:55

Yes, I get that.

Sophia 13:57

where I can sit and finish a paragraph in my head. and the constant interruptions and the constant distractions, is what really sucks me

Joyce 14:07

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 14:08

Especially, like I said, the second half of the, yeah. and I think relationally to my needs have changed in terms of what I feel like I need from my husband and my partner.

Joyce 14:19

Um,

Sophia 14:19

that also has changed, like with first, when he was a young baby, just I needed physical support. I need him to show up. I need him to do this, do that. And then as my kids get a bit older and there's a lot more complicated parenting decisions to be made, I realize I from him right now, what I need in addition to the physical support is support. Like assurance that I'm doing a good

Joyce 14:47

Right?

Sophia 14:48

or, just like being involved and interested in what my day is like

Joyce 14:54

Yeah.

Sophia 14:54

understands what it takes to raise our children, sharing some of the decision making. just a lot more empathy. we talked about how with each child you gain more confidence as a

Joyce 15:08

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 15:09

Uh, for me, I think I'm actually losing confidence with each child the kids get older, because there are a lot more, parenting moments that I don't know the answer to, and I'm kind of floundering with it and I'm constantly self doubting the way that I've never self doted with. First when he was very young, when the goal is just to keep him alive. Keep him alive and healthy.

Joyce 15:37

Yes.

Sophia 15:37

simple. then now it's like, how do I teach him discipline? How do I provide the right kind of boundaries? How do I not become a permissive parent? How do I not become an overbearing parent? How do I reign in my own need for control? every single moment is a decision that feels very impactful to the rearing of my children. And so that kind of decision fatigue and also the constant self-questioning, and self-doubt for me is so taxing. I, I need someone to walk alongside with me, and I don't want anybody else except my husband 'cause he's my co-parent, He's my partner. So that kind of relational needs have shifted for me.

Joyce 16:18

Yeah. The relational needs definitely shifts with each I season. I totally get that and I think it's so unique to each marriage, right? Because it really just depends on the dynamics, what either parent. Is truly not just what they want to be capable of, but like what they truly are capable of, right? Based on jobs, time, financials, all of that. And it's so special. Like whatever Tyler and I are doing doesn't mean that it's applicable to you and David. And it doesn't mean that what either of us are doing are applicable to you guys who are listening to us. Like it's something that really does need a lot of collaboration between the two and self-evaluation. But that can only happen if both are actively doing it together, or there is a clear understanding of roles. and I remember that too, like With Tyler it became more and more clear after having my second and definitely with my third of. My need of needing him to reassure me. Like as Korean person, wife, I am like when we first did our first marriage counseling, they make you do like the love language test. And Tyler and I were complete opposites. So mine was like quality time was like, number one words of affirmation was like zero. I think I got one. Like I marked one instance where I was like, Yeah. I would want a word of affirmation there. But Tyler's was, words of affirmation was highest, and his quality time was I think actually zero. Like it probably could have been negative, and when I had my first kid, Ian, I still desired that quality time. Like I still desired to have a certain level of quality time. That was almost equivalent to what we were like pre kids. And then having that shock of like, I can't get that, like was really, it like took me apart, right? Like, because I was like, oh, I can't get this anymore. And then with my second kid and with my third kid with the greater amount of mental burden and load, and especially with all of my kids having primarily in my first and second, having more special needs and medical complex. So I am constantly navigating doctor's appointments like every day, every week. If I'm not calling a doctor at least once a week, it's a surprise. Um, constantly navigating special medications, insurance companies, all that stuff. So you know that invisible mental load is hard and with each child, Tyler has become more and more. Involved. So the physical partnership has improved. And I think as that has improved, then like I was left with this need of like, I'm so glad you're physically there, but I need you to also just tell me like, thank you. Like I need to hear a thank you. Um, and we've had several talks about that and like ironically enough, words of affirmation were something that Tyler really valued as his love language, but for him to give it is very hard. and so when I've been asking for it, he's just like, Uh, he's like, yeah, that's super fair. But it's like, it's very hard for him to be able to come with up. and I think my own fault is that I want him to say very specific things.

Sophia 19:35

Uh, if, if it doesn't hit those marks.

Joyce 19:38

Yeah. but our therapist used to also say like. You can also write what you specifically want, or our coach was like, he had us do this after we had our second kid. And it was so helpful. This is a very helpful tip of like feeling loved and supported by my partner was he had both of us write a top 10 list of things that we can implement right now to feel loved. And even though, like, I think some of us are, like, a lot of women I know are like, well, He should. know and he should just do it.

Sophia 20:11

He should.

Joyce 20:12

he, uh, I would say it's not fair because he's probably feeling the same thing and I'm not giving him the same thing and I don't know what he wants either. Right. And so it's like, it's not reciprocated. It's not like I know what he wants and I'm often missing the mark as well. And when he's like, actually, this is what I've been wanting, I'm like, oh. I had no idea. And I've been just doing this and it's vice versa. So I've kind of taken that narrative away because I was like, as much as I used to be like, well, he should know, I've learned over the years of coaching therapy and just in marriage and like having kids, I was like, he just doesn't know. And it's not that he doesn't desire to know, he just doesn't know. And he needs to be trained. We all need to train each other husband and wife in helping each other understand how to love each other and support each other and provide those needs. And I think the part that, the fault that a lot of us fall is that we don't speak it and we just expect the other person to know. And that's really not fair. And that's how resentment and bitterness really start to build. And that's where Satan really gets a really easy foothold into marriages. So I've learned to have to kind of take away the, he should. And when I hear that storyline of like, he should know, he should know that that's when I realize I'm burning out and I need help. And that's when I actually say, Hey, I need this from you. I get very physically like verbal action pointed with Tyler. I'm saying, and I'll say, I'm burning out. I need these three things from you. But the thing that he gave us, like he had us do, was a homework assignment, which was make a top 10 list of your needs and desires. or things that Tyler can do right now at this moment, and it would make you feel loved. And so we wrote this LA action list and it was very interesting 'cause Tyler was like, do, do, do. Wrote 10 things literally in three minutes. I was like, what the, I, it took me a week, y'all, it took me a week to figure out what I needed from my husband. 'cause it was so deep in me and so not something I thought about. And I was like, oh shoot. Like even I don't know what I want and I'm thinking he should know how that's not fair. Uh,

Sophia 22:25

Yeah.

Joyce 22:25

that's what I did. And it actually really helped because when he would do it, it was a key for me to be like, oh, he's actually trying to make me feel loved right now. He's telling me he loves me. And 'cause he's, I can tell he's doing something off the list and it was a very clear thing for me to be like, oh wow, he's thinking about me. That's really thoughtful. I love that. Thank you for loving me. Thank you for trying to show me that you love me. And it's like vice versa, like same thing for Tyler. and it just makes it really easy. but even that, like, it, even that like making a top 10 list, I was like, I don't know what I want him to do action oriented can do right now. I was like, and so, Yeah, the, the bigger things for me on my list were verbalizing and I told him like, I just need you to say thank you for handling all the shits you do so that all I have to do is focus about my work. 'cause there are times I. was like, you don't know how to handle any of our kids' prescriptions. if I die today, you would not know anything about our kids medically. I'm like, you would not know what to do, how to do it, where for them to go, who their doctors are. And he's like, yep. And I'm like, I need you to recognize that and say thank you to me every once in a while. And he's like. Yeah, that's fair. That's actually really fair. I'm like, yeah bro, if I die, you dunno how to take care of our kids medically. That's like, you should realize what a big burden that is on me. And he's like, yeah, that's fair. yeah, so those like needs have definitely been the shifts in the evolutions. And it might evolve again for you Sophia, when you have your, when the third baby arrives.

Sophia 24:04

Perfect. We will. it does sound like you have at least a list of 10 things you need from Tyler.

Joyce 24:11

Yeah, I mean we, I definitely need to re-up that 'cause we haven't done it in a while, but ever since then, like again, that need has whittled down after having the third child. And the only thing I really desire from Tyler. is for him to just say, I love you. And thank you for holding it down. Like even me saying that right now to myself is making me cry. I'm saying I love me and thank me for holding it down.

Sophia 24:41

You're doing

Joyce 24:41

Yeah, thank you. You too, Sophia. But yeah, I think that's all I actually want. And that's all I've been telling him ever since the season of having a third child is like, I just need you to say thank you every once in a while and for you to recognize like what I do, the invisible burden so that all you have to do is just show up as dad. All you get to have to worry about is like showing up as dad and you get to work without having to worry about navigating anything in regards to the functions of the household. And that's a pretty big load, you know, so. What are your thoughts? It looks like you're reflecting, you're getting deep reflecting.

Sophia 25:22

I was thinking, I'm thinking too that, Our husband themselves also needs us to tell them thank

Joyce 25:27

Mm-hmm. I do.

Sophia 25:29

because we bear most of the burden and mental overload of running a household, but then they also bear most the burden of sure that can pay for everything we have.

Joyce 25:43

Yeah, I told that Tyler every day, like, oh, at least once a week. I tell him like, thank you so much for working so hard for our family. You're doing so great. I know that this is so stressful, and I tell him thank you at least once a week. and especially when he is had a really stressful time at work, I definitely tell him Hey, I thank you so much for putting up with this kind of stress so that I can buy the pants I want. Or not really. I don't buy anything for myself. No. But I'm like, thank you so much. You know that because of you, like we can have food on the table. 'cause it's a very real and hard stress. Not even just the husband. Like some, I know a lot of friends who the wives are the financial breadwinners and the husbands are not. And uh,

Sophia 26:23

a bunch

Joyce 26:24

yeah. And it's, it's a hard burden, you know? Uh,

Sophia 26:29

when I hear other, um, stay at home dads, their complaints and their hardships us.

Joyce 26:37

I don't think I've had, yeah. I am like, trying to think. I only, I know I knew one stay at home dad and he, his thing was, it was very interesting. He's like. No, he had a very man perspective. He's like, suck it up and do show up as a dad. That's all You have to do. Just suck it up. Stop complaining, suck it up, get a schedule and show up and be a dad. And I'm like, all right, take that too. It was pretty funny. But then he occasionally, but his wife would tell me about like the actual stories of, he's like, I just wanna be alone for like 10 minutes. and she's like, yeah, okay. You want, let's do that. I don't know, What about your interests? What are about your personal interests, Sophia? have they evolved at all? Like going from zero to one and one to two and potentially two to three?

Sophia 27:36

never had the problem you had, Joyce, where if I have a chunk of time, I know exactly what I'm gonna do.

Joyce 27:41

Maybe it's an introvert thing.

Sophia 27:43

I think so. yeah. my interests have always been very simple and basic. So it's reading,

Joyce 27:49

Yeah.

Sophia 27:49

it's, drawing, it is thinking and writing and journaling. and in addition to that, one day I would love to do more art and, um, start playing the piano again.

Joyce 28:02

Um, how fun. I mean, you could also have tove and the kids do art class and that's part of like your homeschooling curriculum.

Sophia 28:10

Yeah. Right now doing art class with them is just, a nightmare.

Joyce 28:14

But it's cool that they have that exposure. I don't do that with my boys. I'm like, give them pot of paint and throw 'em outside.

Sophia 28:20

It's like 10 minutes of actually sitting down and then like 30 minutes of cleanup.

Joyce 28:24

No, that's why I do it all outside and then I just leave it outside and I just hose him down outside. Maybe it's easier going, I'm like, I don't have as much. I'm like, I'm like, all right, you're all done. I literally hose them down. But yeah, I think that's really cool that you have a set of knowing that, and that hasn't changed because that's super helpful and being able to know what you're gonna do. And like how you wanna implement it. When you get that time, is there one particular interest that you have that like, if I'm short on time, like this is the one thing that I really wanna do, say like you only have like a 30 minute chunk of window, right? And David's like, I can watch the kids for like 30 minutes before I leave for work. Go do your thing to help you reboot for the day so that you can get grounded before the day started. what would be that one thing that you would do for those 30 minutes?

Sophia 29:16

I'd probably be working out.

Joyce 29:17

Hmm. That's not even one of the things that you listed as your interest,

Sophia 29:22

Yeah. actually, working out is not an interest for me 'cause I need

Joyce 29:26

right? But of your interest list, what would you choose?

Sophia 29:32

30 minutes.

Joyce 29:33

you had 30 minutes.

Sophia 29:34

I would just go lock the door to my bedroom and just sit on my bed and read.

Joyce 29:38

Mm. Just like decompress as much as you can basically.

Sophia 29:42

Yeah, I think one of my needs is definitely feeding my, intellectual side. Like I need to be thinking about something that is beyond motherhood. I.

Joyce 29:50

yeah, I feel like that's a very introvert thing too. 'cause Tyler's when he has time and he can decompress a little bit between kids or like work stuff, he's constantly reading something. Like he's either constantly going through the times or he's reading on the current posts or watching like a YouTube video, learning about something. And I'm like, what are you watching? What? Okay. He's like, or he'll like kind of sit and like let his mind wander about learning. He's like, you know, what do I wanna learn about? I. wanna learn about clouds. And he'll like deep dive. And he's deep dived for like half an hour on clouds.

Sophia 30:28

Yeah, I mean, that's one of the needs that we have. It's just the mental stimulation. Joyce?

Joyce 30:33

I think that's the hard thing is like for me, I think if I had a 30 minute chunk to do nothing or to do whatever I wanted to do, I would probably sit in silence by myself With a dark room.

Sophia 30:46

just staring into the darkness.

Joyce 30:49

I would probably lay down on the floor and stare at the ceiling and ground and then probably like go on my phone. 'cause I think the hardest balance for me right now is that I am an extrovert, but I think research has also shown as you age, you start to become more introverted. Right? And becoming a mom where it truly taxes all of your extrovertedness, like I do, crave more times of just silence. I'm sure everyone knows this, like the moment you put your kids down and you actually, finally gets silenced in the house, like you hear the weird ringing in your ears. Like

Sophia 31:24

Mm.

Joyce 31:24

I. hear, I hear ringing in my ears.

Sophia 31:26

I hear? weird tones, like weird music of

Joyce 31:31

Yes.

Sophia 31:32

over I'm like, where's am I going? Crazy.

Joyce 31:34

that's normal.

Sophia 31:35

I think it's just like the southern silence is so abrupt it's also so unfamiliar that suddenly music, just hearing things, hearing weird music.

Joyce 31:45

heard about this, but I forgot I had to re-look it up. But there, it's a thing 'cause I hear like musical tones too, and I think it, there's something about the way your brain is processing the silence and so it's like it turns into that. But Yeah. like I hear like a ringing, it goes and then it'll start creating kind of like musical tones of the silence, but Yeah.

Sophia 32:08

sometimes like and I, I don't know, it might be from one of the kids' music

Joyce 32:17

Yeah. You're like replaying something from the kids' toys, you're like doing it, but. Yeah, so I try to ground as much as I can. So I'll like put pressure on my back. I lay on my back. I'll probably, I usually do stretches 'cause it's very grounding for my body and my nervous system. So I think the tricky thing for me is I'm a very physical person, so I think that's what's hard is like I have to balance a little bit of this grounding plus the physicality and the extrovertedness I get through my kids in a sense. But also the extrovertedness is different needs obviously as an adult versus when you're with your kids as a mother, like I still crave talking to other people. but, oh, which reminds me, I think. if I had those 30 minutes to tell's like, you could do what you want, like whatever, I probably wouldn't do like a hard workout. 'cause I think that would ramp up my nervous system. I would actually just do a very slow, very intentional mobility flow and just kind of lay on the ground and meditate before I start the day. Because otherwise, if I feel hurried going into the day that hurry, this is a strong undertow and sets a tone for the rest of the day. And I hate that. I hate starting the day with a hurry, which is all of motherhood. But you can like kind of start a little slow, somehow, find a way to be intentionally a little slow. but actually I just realized maybe a need, a personal need that I've probably really been craving as well. Is a deeper sense of community and friendship. I don't know about for you part, maybe it's also part of it is because I've only actually been here for as long as I've been married, so I haven't been to LA in a long time and I moved to LA just before COVID shut down so like building community has been delayed. Granted, I had a history already, but it was just, we lived a lifetime before I moved back. So it's like, you know, it was six years, so a lot of people I knew and stuff had already left. the community was definitely different and they moved into a different part of town and it's very different moving back when my community had always been like kind of associated with church and school now as like my community,

Sophia 34:24

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 34:25

um. Yeah. I was just actually talking about that yesterday with Tyler and how I was like, other than like you and b and Steph, like my, like other best friends. It's just like, I don't really have people reaching out to me, and I'm always the one, and I, I know I'm saying the word always, which might sound like an exaggeration, but it's true. if you look through the text messages, more often than not, I am the one reaching out to initiate some sort of connection with another person to hang out with. Uh, and it's typically not always reciprocated. like yesterday, I, I reached out to a couple of people and I was like, Hey, like love to get like a play date set up. And they were like, I was like, are you guys free? They're like, oh, both of them on their own text. We were like, oh, I'm gonna be out of town. I was like, oh Yeah, I'm gonna be out of town too. And that, was it. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, like, you know, if you're free, like let me know. Like we'll have to set up something. And they're like, thumbs up. And they're like, okay, no act,

Sophia 35:26

that's very discouraging.

Joyce 35:28

Yeah, it hurts. And so it's like, uh,

Sophia 35:31

like, Hey, I would love to get together, but right now it's not a good time. Let me get back

Joyce 35:35

yeah. or they're like, yeah, I'm gone next week, but you. know what, what, we're free the weekend after. Right. And that's where I've been experiencing a lot of, like, reaching out to people is like kind of this. like fall flat or they'll say like, oh Yeah. let's do it. And then like, we set up a date. But it's not then reciprocated back of like, Hey, like, oh, we're free on this weekend, let's set up a play date. Or let's hang out and grab dinner or stuff. And I think like, um, a deeper mom community, I think is like really what I'm desiring. and that's something that Tyler and I have really wrestled through. And Tyler was like, well, at least we have each other forever. I was like, no, we don't. I was like, I don't want it to be just you. I don't want it to be just you. I was like, I know you're an introvert and you're okay with that, But, I'm not, I'm not okay with it being just do.

Sophia 36:24

I mean, even though I am an introvert, I do feel that,

Joyce 36:27

Yeah,

Sophia 36:28

you in that.

Joyce 36:28

yeah,

Sophia 36:29

Um, I think a deep rich community is a need

Joyce 36:32

yeah.

Sophia 36:33

and not just a

Joyce 36:34

And not a desire. like it truly is necessary. And I think I get, I find myself feeling really jealous. Not,

Sophia 36:41

Hmm.

Joyce 36:41

jealous.

Sophia 36:43

Envious

Joyce 36:44

No, you know what, I feel grief, I feel sorrow when I see other people having that. And I think part of it is 'cause it really triggers old childhood memories.

Sophia 36:55

Oh

Joyce 36:55

I

Sophia 36:56

being left

Joyce 36:56

Of being left out of being bullied of, for me, I moved a lot. So always being the new kid is also very hard.

Sophia 37:07

It was that way too. We moved every two years and then we,

Joyce 37:09

yeah.

Sophia 37:10

overseas.

Joyce 37:10

Yeah. And it's hard, like you're kind of always a new kid and it's a resiliency in the sense of like, you learn how to be versatile. You learn how to be able to pivot, you learn amazing people skills 'cause you have to be adaptable to be able to make these new friends. But friendships never get to be deep. So you also don't get to learn what it means.

Sophia 37:32

Deep friendship. Yeah. Long lasting friendship.

Joyce 37:34

And I actually never developed really a true deep friendship. until I was almost in grad school. like really Tyler and one other friend, my friend Joyce, who's named Joyce, are the only two people really that I keep up with from college. Like, and Tyler, I ended up marrying. So now we have no choice but to, you know, be connected, but like,

Sophia 37:57

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 37:58

you know what I mean, like deep friendship and wise. 'cause I moved so much, and so in my mind I thought, oh, when you shift grades or when you shift schools or you shift location, you just drop your previous friends and you make new ones. Because that's just what I always did growing up. And it wasn't until I was almost in grad school where I was like, no, I I don't wanna do that anymore. You know? Um, but also, unfortunately. Friendships are also seasonal as well. Then there's very few friendships that actually do stand the test of time and it takes a lot of work on both ends for it to be able to stand the test of time.

Sophia 38:33

Yeah. I think with moving so much as a kid, I've always learned to not hold friendship very tightly and be,

Joyce 38:41

loose.

Sophia 38:42

it's okay for me to like let go.

Joyce 38:43

Yes,

Sophia 38:44

And let friendships ebb and

Joyce 38:46

yes.

Sophia 38:47

friendships that come back over time too, and how friendships are.

Joyce 38:51

Yeah. And so it's a good skill in a sense of like, when some friendships do leave, you're like, alright. You know? But it also is like, oh, but I actually do want to learn how to have a deeper, more full connection. And I think, when you do get a taste of it, it's really hard To like.

Sophia 39:09

Yeah.

Joyce 39:09

Like,

Sophia 39:10

let that sleep, because

Joyce 39:11

mm-hmm.

Sophia 39:11

it's hard to find.

Joyce 39:12

Yeah. And I had that when I was up in the bay, and I think that was what I grieved when I moved down, was the community that I had to say goodbye to. And that was what I was most sad about. And you know, it was all in good timing. 'cause even when I look back at the community that was up in the bay that I had at that time of life, it's completely disbanded. Like it would not have been the same. but I think when you have a taste of that, you're like, your heart yearns for that again. and it may not be realistic and it may not be a very realistic expectation. And so I've really whittled it down, but I was talking to b about it last night and I was like, my heart was feeling really heavy about it. And I she's like, maybe we're just not being realistic about our expectations. And I said. a reciprocating friendship relationship is actually not much to ask for. Like, it's not much for me to desire a person to text me back and then text me and be like, Hey, I'm free. You wanna go grab coffee? I don't think that's very much to ask. And she's like, yeah, that's true. I was like, we're not asking for a lot, we're just asking for someone to think of me and reach out to me. and I feel like I've been longing that for a very, that's why like our friendship is so special to me. 'cause it was like you were one of the very few people that actually does do that. Right? Um,

Sophia 40:26

Every every Instagram post. I see.

Joyce 40:28

yeah. Yeah. I Sophia,

Sophia 40:33

If I'm the first person, I'm gonna vent all my drama.

Joyce 40:38

I.

Sophia 40:40

Can I just tell you about my demon child? She demon right now. Trial that, that was actually what I was gonna text you today. But then I, I, got by this demon, demon

Joyce 40:52

But the demon distracted you from being able to vent about the demon

Sophia 40:55

Oh gosh.

Joyce 40:58

I know. I, I don't know. Like, I, I mean, actually t is, he's definitely my sour patch kid. Like, he's so cute. But then I'm like, Oh my gosh. like the fury and the anger that comes out. I know.

Sophia 41:11

URI so adorable. But then she wakes up screaming her head off, and I'm like, you're cute, even when you're screaming. But my ears hurt and I'm about to scream as

Joyce 41:22

Yeah. You're like, let's just all scream together.

Sophia 41:28

Yeah. But let's talk about then, what is our non-negotiable needs?

Joyce 41:33

Yeah.

Sophia 41:33

good to have a list of that, just the non-negotiables. Um, besides for sleep, just just the,

Joyce 41:39

basic actual life.

Sophia 41:41

ones. What are some of the non-negotiable that you have identified?

Joyce 41:46

Yeah,

Sophia 41:46

you might not meet them yet, but you are actively praying about it and trying to meet it.

Joyce 41:51

I think finding a much more rich spiritual life, however that looks, and that's realistic in my life. And I'm not gonna hold myself to be like I am. I have to read the Bible every day because I think sometimes it's just really hard as a parent. And I think being a parent is also an act of worship. and a connectiveness of Holy Spirit, because what's more self-sacrificing than being a parent? Right?

Sophia 42:14

working out the scripture in

Joyce 42:17

Yes. Self-control. Oh, so much self-control, so much repentance. But I think finding, a more regular practice, of connecting with God is really what I desire, or like a need. Exercise because that is just a base that is important foundationally for us as humans, um, and community. And I think those have been the three things that have been on my mind, at least in this current season of life. of I'm like, those are things that I just, I absolutely have to have and need. And my, my heart is always kind of like, oh, figure out what we can do to get that going.

Sophia 42:54

Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm very similar to you. Like number one is definitely my walk with

Joyce 42:59

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 43:00

and that looks different now. Like, I remember before tov I would be spending an hour to study the Bible and I highlighting

Joyce 43:07

Right.

Sophia 43:07

on all that. I just don't have that bandwidth right now. But, my struggle though is, to how to make it part of my life and make it a top priority rather than something I, I sprinkle in

Joyce 43:18

Mm.

Sophia 43:19

and add in because I have

Joyce 43:20

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 43:21

you know, so I do listen to a daily devotional podcast, but then also one of the ways that. God speaks to me. It's really reading the Bible with my kids.

Joyce 43:30

Yeah,

Sophia 43:31

Bible. The

Joyce 43:32

it's a really, nice way of getting that in.

Sophia 43:35

God already talks to me during that. Like that, and also each moment with parenting is a practice in, on your knees

Joyce 43:42

Yeah.

Sophia 43:43

and like I said, so much repentance. There's so much repentance

Joyce 43:47

So much knife sharpening knives.

Sophia 43:49

fine line, especially from working that fine line between just in self condemnation and actual

Joyce 43:56

Yeah.

Sophia 43:57

There is, there's a big difference

Joyce 43:58

Yeah.

Sophia 43:59

sometimes they look similar. so working out that difference. And then, Need for rest. I think that that's something I, I'm still struggling with. And because there was this one day, I mean, I've been overexerting myself to the point where my back injury came flaring up, but I was like, okay, today I'm gonna take a rest. And everything fell apart because Uri did a nap. So there was just like, I had all this planned to rest that just didn't even happen. you know, once you start vacuuming, like why not vacuum the whole house? Like, oh, once you start wiping accounts, it's like, why not wipe This whole thing? Like you

Joyce 44:34

are like, while I am here. That set, that phrase is dangerous while I'm here.

Sophia 44:40

I'm crawling on the floor.

Joyce 44:41

Why don't

Sophia 44:42

all the

Joyce 44:42

Yeah. What am I thinking? No, just stay focused.

Sophia 44:46

Yeah. I think like working in moments of true rest, It's really hard for me because I'm the kind of person where every minute has to be some sort of productive vt, even there has to

Joyce 44:58

I see.

Sophia 45:00

project or like improving my children, educating my children, like something, always seems to need to be an explicit goal. And sometimes, you know what the explicit goal should just be to rest

Joyce 45:12

I,

Sophia 45:13

for me. very often blends with productivity.

Joyce 45:17

yes.

Sophia 45:18

my rest would be cooking while listening to a podcast about Jane IR because I want to like, learn more about, you know, literature. Like that's my idea of rest. and then I'm wondering, hey, why am I so tired? Yeah. Why am I so Um, because I'm doing multiple things at once. You idiot it.

Joyce 45:36

Yeah, I get that.

Sophia 45:38

part, is something that I'm still very much actively working on. another non-negotiable need is like or twice a month, I have friends whom I meet up with

Joyce 45:49

Yeah.

Sophia 45:49

and without my kids. Um, just fellowship,

Joyce 45:52

Yeah.

Sophia 45:52

just like this pure liberty of, or like, you

Joyce 45:56

I,

Sophia 45:57

you know, sometimes you are carrying so much are things that your only your girlfriends can carry

Joyce 46:04

mm-hmm.

Sophia 46:04

even your husband,

Joyce 46:05

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 46:06

because he doesn't have that feminine

Joyce 46:08

Mm-hmm. And griping just does not do well with your husband. Sometimes

Sophia 46:12

no,

Joyce 46:13

it with your, your like, girlfriends.

Sophia 46:16

Yeah, exactly. So like that I love When I meet up with my girlfriends and then come back home feeling like someone took the load off my

Joyce 46:25

Yeah.

Sophia 46:26

and it was just a conversation where you're sitting side by side going, me too.

Joyce 46:31

Yeah.

Sophia 46:32

You know, it's just like CS Lewis said.

Joyce 46:33

Yeah.

Sophia 46:34

Um, yeah, that, and then I think one really, I mean I mentioned this, but just the intellectual and creativity

Joyce 46:40

Yeah.

Sophia 46:41

I have

Joyce 46:42

I,

Sophia 46:42

really trying to like, put down the laundry, not wash the dishes right away by even just, just prioritize, like sitting down for five, 10 minutes to journal. I know that's not your favorite thing, but for me it's been such a healing process being

Joyce 46:55

I know. I think that's great for you.

Sophia 46:58

yeah. Great for me. Yeah. But that's personally

Joyce 47:01

Yeah. But that's great.

Sophia 47:02

for me is to be able to process. thoughts that I have in my mind and just be able to write it down then to be able to have God speak into it.

Joyce 47:13

Yeah.

Sophia 47:13

that's not from me. That's not from me. No, I'm gonna talk to you through

Joyce 47:16

Yeah.

Sophia 47:17

And even next process this

Joyce 47:19

Yeah.

Sophia 47:19

Um, things like that. Yeah.

Joyce 47:22

I also did forget to mention time with my husband.

Sophia 47:26

Hmm.

Joyce 47:27

oh, that is as we've talked about before, I was like, your marriage is a foundation of your ability to parent

Sophia 47:33

Okay. Can I just confess though, it's a need working in the marriage, but it feel like a need sometimes. yesterday, you know, our solo parenting at night, David went out for a work meeting I'm finally sat down. I'm reading my book. David comes up to me and sit right next to me and he is like, you don't wanna spend time with me? And I'm like, no, go away.

Joyce 47:55

I think anyone's different end of day spending time is, I think it's so different. Well, Tyler and I had to really work out that too. 'cause I used to do that to Tyler. We were flipped in that role and then it would drive Tyler insane. and I would just talk to him. while he's playing video games and he would just go, mm-hmm. I was like, all right, dragon breathing, fire at me. I guess you don't wanna be with your wife. And he,

Sophia 48:22

That sounds like me so much. Tyler and I are so alike in that way.

Joyce 48:26

and so we've worked it out where like he gets his alone time for like an hour, hour and a half, and then it's US time. But realistically speaking, that has changed a lot for us too over the years. I mean, like for me, it's like actually having a really good date night, whether it's day or like quality time without the children when you're actually happy, not mad at the end of the day, 'cause I feel like our partnership does do better when we actually do get to have. You know, and it's sometimes we get it once a month, sometimes we get it once a quarter. but when we actually do get that time to be able to connect, I do see it like trickle into our marriage. 'cause we've had a time to connect as a partnership,

Sophia 49:10

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 49:10

know?

Sophia 49:11

Oh, 100%. I used to think date nights was just one of those, like nice to

Joyce 49:15

right. But it's become essential now.

Sophia 49:17

try our best to have date nights twice a

Joyce 49:19

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 49:21

And I, at first I resisted because it so much money. just

Joyce 49:25

Yeah. babysitter Yeah.

Sophia 49:27

to come, and then going out to eat like the expenses made me very reluctant. But that was so, so dumb of me because you wonder gonna have to pay for marital therapy if you don't go on date nights. And that's gonna

Joyce 49:39

Yeah, therapy's way more expensive.

Sophia 49:41

And I, I would rather go out and have,

Joyce 49:43

A good meal. Right. At least you're eating,

Sophia 49:48

then like have to work on

Joyce 49:50

you're not eating and talking to a person for an hour, paying them hundreds of dollars.

Sophia 49:56

what you said about the trickle down, in fact, really does have made a difference in our

Joyce 50:00

Yeah.

Sophia 50:01

I would say. Like even when we go out and we don't even talk about anything

Joyce 50:04

Right.

Sophia 50:05

we are not like, how can I love you better? like we don't really talk about those things. We just talk about

Joyce 50:10

Stuff.

Sophia 50:11

just talk

Joyce 50:11

But you, it's 'cause you don't get, ha, you don't have time or bandwidth to do that when you're with your kids. Right?

Sophia 50:17

And that's just D's friendship, right? He was just like talking live or talking like about, just whatever you read on an article or like whatever

Joyce 50:25

Yeah. Chitchat.

Sophia 50:27

whatever. Yeah. It's just chit

Joyce 50:28

Yeah.

Sophia 50:29

building the foundation of a

Joyce 50:30

Yeah, because that's what's really gonna take us through the lifetime and the phase of the hardships of marriage, you know what I mean? I remember, they did a marriage season at Reality SF and they had like different couples come up. And I just remember I was very single during that time of my life, very single. Um,

Sophia 50:49

days,

Joyce 50:49

those were fun days.

Sophia 50:50

bygone days,

Joyce 50:53

I had the time of my life, but I said that to Tyler and Tyler was like, oh, 'cause you know how to

Sophia 50:58

you had the time of your life. As in we

Joyce 51:00

I,

Sophia 51:00

so much time, I

Joyce 51:01

dude,

Sophia 51:02

how much time I had

Joyce 51:03

yeah, but I like made the most in my thirties before. I got married. Let me tell you that I made sure I lived YOLO before I got married. Tyler was like, no, that was not me. I was like, I lived yolo. But all that to say, I just remember the biggest takeaway of them is like saying like. The misconception of love is that everyone in this current culture thinks love is a feeling. And so everyone chases the feeling. But in reality, and even biblically, when you look at it, love is a choice and you have to actually actively choose. And this couple was very real about talking about how they were very much in the process of getting a divorce. And then they didn't, you know, and they reconciled. And it was really just realizing that it's a choice. You have to choose. And there are gonna be some seasons they're like, you're gonna fall out of love and you're just gonna have to actually dig your heels in to the faithfulness and the commitment and the covenant. And they're like, and it'll come back. They're like, but that's the thing is like everyone thinks that you should always feel lovey-dovey throughout the entire season of entirety of marriage. And they're like, and that's not true. And I think. Maybe if there's someone listening here who just is maybe feeling that, especially I think once you have kids, that is a big shock 'cause your sense of love also changes and the way you love your husband feels really different and really unfamiliar it can feel like you've fallen out of love with your husband. And that's not it. It's just the season has taken away certain things, but the ultimately that's normal and it's okay. And it's does not mean your marriage is unhealthy, It just means that it's a tough season but you guys, as long as you're committed and sticking to the covenant, just know that with time it'll come back. And I think that has always been something that has stuck with me and has given me hope. And so I think it made it a little easier when we did have really hard times in our marriage for me to be like, this is just a tough season. Nothing's wrong with our marriage. This is just a tough season. And we'll be okay.

Sophia 53:03

Hmm. Okay. Then what about personal desires? What are some personal desires that you think that realistically you can start slowly adding into your life?

Joyce 53:14

You know. I will let You know when I figure that out. 'cause I really don't know. I think I've been so focused on my needs of like, this is what I need that I haven't had a real big ability to focus on likes part of it. I mean, mine is like very superficial perhaps for some people. But honestly, a big desire of mine is to redo my closet because I am the person that if my clothes doesn't make me feel good, I like my clothes is my personality. So it's like if my clothes is just boring, athleisure, which is what it has been for the past four and a half years, I feel like a boring person. I think it might just be like the personality that I am and like the type of person I am.

Sophia 53:59

things out

Joyce 54:00

I love to switch things out which is not good for our family finances, but I just am that person. I think my mom is like that too? So I think for me, honestly, that has been like the one thing where I've been like wanting to do, where I was like, this is not an absolute necessity, but I'm like, I would love to redo my clothing closet because it's, all of my clothes are from pre-kids, so things don't fit well. Or it's like clothes that's designed to transition from pregnancy to maternity to post, you know. what I mean? Like to postpartum. So it's still like frumpy clothes, like, and when I wear frumpy clothes, I feel frumpy.

Sophia 54:39

I've never seen you rumpy

Joyce 54:40

Well, I appreciate that,

Sophia 54:41

at home.

Joyce 54:42

but

Sophia 54:43

You should see what I wear when I go drop off to at preschool and pick him

Joyce 54:47

oh my gosh, don't even get me started with what I look like in way I see other moms wear at school.

Sophia 54:51

a, I wore a sweatshirt that had Kim cheese stains on it from three days ago.

Joyce 54:57

This probably look like tie dye to other people. That's what I told myself. I'm like, No. one's gonna, I was like, this blueberry stain looks. Like it's, uh, modern, contemporary, uh, art.

Sophia 55:10

Yeah. Mys had paint on it. Uh, yeah.

Joyce 55:13

But, um, that is like the one thing I just have been wanting to do is actually to redo my clothes. being the person I am, like the physical environment has a very big impact on me. So like, wanting to redo our home to make it feel like a true home and like wanting to redo my closet to feel like my closet, my clothes, like actually exemplifies my personality.

Sophia 55:39

Are you sure? Not an igram four.

Joyce 55:41

Well, I am Enneagram three, so I probably have a very strong Wing four, and I think my Wing four. has really been coming out more.

Sophia 55:49

Hmm. Okay.

Joyce 55:51

I used to be because of my physical therapy realm. So I think like I had a really strong desire to help. Yeah. With the wing too. But they also said like, as you age, your wings actually flip, and that you actually start attacking like growing roots and more access into the other wing as you get older. And I think I've been noticing that too a lot in me so I think once I started having kids, I think there's been like this expansion of personality and so

Sophia 56:18

Hmm.

Joyce 56:18

I've become a feeler, which was weird.

Sophia 56:22

why is that weird? You've been a fellow since I met you. You cry more than anyone I know.

Joyce 56:26

I cry so much and I said that is what I mean. I, I started crying so much with sitar. Having kids, I cry so much. I cry about everything with every, someone else cries. I will start crying.

Sophia 56:41

You, you're like a water balloon. It's a tiny prick.

Joyce 56:45

Nah, I know it's all my childhood trauma coming out like a water balloon prick. Anyways, so that's me. What about you?

Sophia 56:55

Um, personal desires. I would like to realistically be able to do more. I think, this podcast,

Joyce 57:03

Yes, this podcast.

Sophia 57:05

working on this podcast is a joy, but also really, I mean, it's not a need, but it is something that we both really wanna invest

Joyce 57:13

Yes.

Sophia 57:14

Um, also, I really feel this need to, want to write and, and do more art,

Joyce 57:20

Mm.

Sophia 57:21

and I haven't been writing for a long

Joyce 57:22

You haven't

Sophia 57:23

I had a nightmare one day where my, my dream I realized that I lost all my writing skills. I was like, ah, where am I?

Joyce 57:33

well, that's an existential crisis.

Sophia 57:36

yeah. So like, personal journal, but maybe just even blogging. I don't know, like start working more on that novel I had in mind. some sort of creativity. Um, yeah, that part of me is definitely been, been depleted.

Joyce 57:54

Yeah. I feel like the creative side is very hard sometimes as a parent, especially if you're a parent who tends towards productivity and structure. I think sometimes tapping into that creativity side is like tricky. 'cause it can sometimes feel like it has to be a perfect situation to have that perfect artistic, creative side. You know what I mean? Instead of it like allowing it to be a messy situation and then you're like, but it wasn't a good solid 30 minutes. It was five minutes and it was not enough. I think that's hard as a parent. It's like always wanting to feel like you need more of something.

Sophia 58:32

Yeah. Right now I try to do art with, to while Uri is sleeping because he's actually being able to sit still

Joyce 58:39

Yeah.

Sophia 58:40

50

Joyce 58:40

Yeah. It'll start getting better.

Sophia 58:42

interested in painting

Joyce 58:43

Yeah.

Sophia 58:44

drawing and sometimes I'm a little impressed by what he actually

Joyce 58:48

Yeah. That Apple was fire,

Sophia 58:51

but the only thing he wants to draw is apples right

Joyce 58:53

honestly. That's great. That's like he's gonna learn so. much art skills from that, right? Like depth and color.

Sophia 59:00

him

Joyce 59:00

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 59:01

and also like, just because the apple is red, that's me only use

Joyce 59:05

Right. Look for the other colors in the apple depth. I love it.

Sophia 59:09

So, it's been fun. Like there's, there's a creative outlet in just teaching my child to appreciate. Art. I think one thing is like being a parent, you just have to be creative in the ways you meet your needs and your

Joyce 59:22

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 59:23

the way you meet them is going to look different

Joyce 59:26

Totally.

Sophia 59:26

the limitations of your time and energy, and space. So that part, will be a work in progress.

Joyce 59:34

Yeah. And you have to be okay with it. Just not looking perfect.

Sophia 59:38

Yeah.

Joyce 59:38

Yeah. Alright. Unless on that note, I think we've concluded our episode three.

Sophia 59:43

Yeah.

Joyce 59:44

Yeah.

Sophia 59:44

All right, Joyce, you wanna pray us

Joyce 59:45

Yeah. Got it. Thank you so much for your creativity. When we look at the world and we look at humankind and just the uniqueness of every person and every living creature and being in this world, like we can see your creativity and your goodness and your desire to provide goodness in our lives. so God, I just ask that as we are going into our days and going into our weeks, um, that both Sophia and I and everyone that is listening to this podcast, that we will be reminded of our needs and our desires, but ultimately let it be aligned to you. God that you would give us wisdom with what we truly do need, and give us wisdom with our desires and helping us to be flexible and creative with how we approach those and how we, collaborate with our partners in that. Lord, I just thank you for your goodness in our lives. I thank you for the joy that being a parent really does give. and that Lord, that there is no greater refining fire than being a parent Lord. So I just pray that, um, we are reminded that being a parent is hard, that being in Alma is hard. It is good, and it forces us to stretch in ways that, um, we would never be stretched if we were single or without children, and in that Father that we would also not abandon the needs and the desires of our hearts, Lord, because those needs and desires are what you have given us, Lord, to be who we are uniquely Lord. we thank you for your goodness and your wisdom and your name we pray. Amen.

Sophia 1:01:20

Amen. All right, amaz, thank you so much for tuning in.

Joyce 1:01:24

Bye

Sophia 1:01:24

We will see you next

Joyce 1:01:26

Bye.

1:01:30

Thank you so much for listening. If you've been liking our episodes, please follow, like, subscribe, or leave us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and feedback. You can find us on Instagram at the old Oma Club, or reach out to us at the old Oma club@gmail.com. You gotta give it. Big thank you to Kevin Lar for our music. Until next time, amaz, may the Lord bless you and keep you sane, hydrated, and fulfilled the way only he can.