Season 2, Ep 6: The Stress Hell Hole of Feeding Our Kids

When did feeding children become so complicated? When did it become one of the most emotionally charged parts of parenting?

In this episode, we talk about what it really looks like to navigate food and meal times in our homes—from ideal expectations to real-life compromises, to the challenges of navigating severe food allergies and the emotional weight that comes with it. 

If you have a picky eater, or a kid with food allergies, this would be a highly relatable episode for you. 

We want to get to know our Ummas! You can find Sophia and Joyce: 

Instagram: @theoldummaclub

Email: theoldummaclub@gmail.com

Music credits:
"Life of Riley" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Transcript

0:02

Hey Amaz, welcome to the Old Alma Club. I'm Joyce. And I'm Sophia. We are two friends in Los Angeles who had so many great coffee chats about our love for Jesus being Korean in biracial marriages and having kids mid-career, mid thirties. So we decided to turn it into a podcast. So grab a cup of coffee and join our conversations and by aching backs, motherhood, marriage, Jesus, and everything in between. You ready? Hannah? Two. Set. Set. Let's go. Let's go.

Joyce 0:36

Hi, amaz. Today we are talking about eating, feeding our children the general world of that. But do we or do we not have picky eaters and what we've been doing to address that? And even the struggles that come with that, like the stress of having a picky eater. Um, and even just maybe, the other just general struggles that we're having with feeding our kids, which I feel especially as parents, that's like all you're thinking about, like, what's the next snack? What's the next meal? Like, your days are kind of scheduled around the eating, feeding schedule. So

Sophia 1:11

you're constantly feeding a child from the moment the child is born

Joyce 1:15

yeah.

Sophia 1:15

every several hours, and it just like encapsulates your day. And if your kid is not eating well. It does create enormous stress, daily stress that piles on and on. I would say that I do have a picky eater, but it's not so much that he's picky. Okay. So it's Tov somehow, always. The first born, they have friends with pick and they're all firstborn. this is gotta be a first born thing. But then I didn't do anything different with, Tov or Woori in terms of feeding them. So I'm not doing anything different. I don't, I don't understand why the first born, I have no idea.

Joyce 1:54

I think the second born usually has the example of watching the first born, of being like, oh, food is safe. Like they watch the oldest eating and so I think there's like a kind of like a little bit of a normalcy versus like. Firstborns, they're like watching adults eat it. And I think it's not as relatable as like, you know what I mean? So I think food is still a little bit more of a new thing to them versus like the second has the benefit of watching all the other kids eat, right. Watching the firstborn eat and they're like, oh, okay. That's how you do it. Well, let me just dive in.

Sophia 2:29

Yeah, maybe. I have no idea

Joyce 2:30

I dunno.

Sophia 2:31

research on this. I'm interested,

Joyce 2:33

Yeah,

Sophia 2:33

Okay. So to, is my like give me stress, eat. It is one of my, um, top 10 stress of the day. It's feeding to, and it's not so much that he is a picky eater. He's just a under eater,

Joyce 2:51

a minimalist in his food intake.

Sophia 2:53

very minimalist. I just to give you a clue how little he, is, um, is almost four. He's of average height, maybe even taller than Some other kids I know who are slightly older than him, and he's only 28 pounds.

Joyce 3:10

Yeah. TIG is 28.

Sophia 3:13

my friend has a one and a half year old who is 28 pounds and wears a size five diaper and 12 could still fit in a size three diaper. And today he wore Uri year two pants, and it fit his waist perfectly. It was more like a caprice, but it fit his waist perfectly. And I can't even fit him in three pants because it just falls right off. That's how skinny he is. You can see his ribs, you can feel his spines. he abuses me unintentionally every single day by poking me with a

Joyce 3:49

Pokey elbow with?

Sophia 3:51

yes, the elbows and the knees. And it's just like all bones and he's sharp and it just jabs me. so. I feel like I, I have average justification for this being a big source of stress in my life.

Joyce 4:06

Oh yeah.

Sophia 4:07

I don't feel like he's starving, but every time I see his bones, it just kind of pains me.

Joyce 4:13

Mm-hmm. I mean, part of it is like, well, one, I will attest to, he moves and has plenty of energy despite the fact of undereating.

Sophia 4:24

Literally today, he woke up at 5:00 AM Right?

Joyce 4:28

Oh.

Sophia 4:28

And like 8:00 PM and he was running, literally running and circle goes around me after walking for half a mile oh, I just heard him kick David in the balls. So he, So that is how much energy like this kid I think even if he eats double what he eats, he would still be burning it all off.

Joyce 4:49

Yeah, he moves a lot. So it's like, I get it. And I remember when he gets sick and he's not eating, I know how much of that stress, at least as a friend, I've like been there too. I know that's like a big point of stress for you too. 'cause he loses weight so much faster

Sophia 5:02

Yeah.

Joyce 5:03

he doesn't have like as much cushion. I totally understand that. Yeah, I don't have an under eater. I would say he's picky, but more of like sensory picky. So Cian is my picky, so again, the first word.

Sophia 5:18

Mm-hmm. There you

Joyce 5:19

Yeah. tie right now is a little bit of an under eater, at meals, but he snacks and he's kind of a constant grazer, so that's kind of tricky. Like he's just naturally that person. I think he's gonna always just be that person who just kind of grazes throughout the day. Um, part of it is he's so active that he's hungry. Like even if he ate a really large meal, he'll burn it off in like an hour and a half. And so he just needs constant input. Kian is like, he's my sensory kiddo, right? He's on the neurodivergent spectrum and, being on the sensory. Seeking, but sensory avoidant, he's just more hypersensitive in the sensory realm. He is very particular about how things look, how things touch, what he has on top, how crunchy certain foods are. Like, butter is delicious. Even vegan butter. Yes. It doesn't taste as good as regular butter, but I mean like butter is yummy and like butter toast is a yummy snack. He hates it because it makes his bread slightly soggy and it takes away the crunch. And he can tell, like, like he can tell, like first tooth touch impact of the stupid crust. Like, oh no, no. So he heats everything plain, which also stresses me out because protein intake is so hard to get in 'cause it's so easy if you just put almond butter toast, right? Or like sun butter toast he'll like sit there scraping it off. I purposely put it on it just for sensory training, like, and his anxiety food training, but like, he won't eat it or today, for example, every Friday night is pizza night and Ty was eating the pizza and like made a pizza sandwich and like ate the pizza, whatever, right? Ian was meticulously peeling the other side of the bread off the dry part so that he didn't have to eat any of the pizza sauce or the cheese. He sat there peeling off, like he flipped it over. So the sauce, I was down on the plate and then he was like picking off the bread and at one point he even, he's like, ha ha, the sauce touched the bread. And I mean, when I say sauce, it was like. The faintest line of red on it and he was having a near panic meltdown about it. and I get stressed out. And Tyler he told me about how like, when he was younger, he didn't like his food, touching other things. So I think he like understands a little bit of Cian's food anxiety and also, 'cause if you make it the way you want it and not the way he wants it, he'll outright not eat it. we would rather obviously want him to eat it but it feeds into his sensory avoidance and like visual stresses. And even like yogurt, I mixed in a little bit of almond butter and I put honey on top and it's honey like honey's yummy. And It stress key enough to see that the honey was on it. So he wanted one spoon to scrape the honey off. And then he wanted another spoon to scrape the honey off of said spoon so that he could eat the spoon without having the honey touch it. And then he would double dip it back.

Sophia 8:21

compartmentalized.

Joyce 8:23

That, or the visual input if it disturbs him visually. 'cause this is like the whole point of him, like in a sensory dysregulation and his sensory integrative issues it disrupts him, like it causes his body to just feel unsafe And it cruises anxiety when he sees certain foods mix. And so then it like visually doesn't do well with him. But he'll eat honey, no problem. If I put it on a spoon, he'll eat the honey. But he doesn't want the honey on the yogurt 'cause he doesn't want it touching the yogurt. Yeah, I don't know. But then he'll eat spaghetti with meat sauce. So I'm like, I don't wanna understand.

Sophia 8:57

Make sense? Yeah. He has his own rules.

Joyce 8:59

yeah. And then you just never know. And like Tyler and I both attend it differently where Tyler attends to it, where he's like, okay, well he just puts the pasta sauce like on the side. And I'm like, no, no, classic like Asian. I'm like, no, no, no, don't do that. Don't tend to that. Put it on top. I put it on top. And then Ke will have a meltdown, but he ends up eating it anyways. So I'm like, see, he eats it. why are you putting it on the side? He eats it. Why do you do this? Why do you make it more stressful for me?

Sophia 9:27

Yeah,

Joyce 9:27

sometimes I think once he can push through his anxiety and like he can push through the, the anxiousness and if he's hungry enough, he'll eat it. So I tend to just tell 'em, like, just try one bite of it. You're freaking out, but you haven't even tried it. So the rule is like he has to try one bite of it, and if then if he doesn't like it, then we can push it off and I'll give him another bolt or you know, I was like, you can scrape it off. Sometimes I'll just be adamant and I'll say like, no. Part of it is training through his, sensory and training through his anxieties. I'm like, I'm not giving you a new bowl. You can scrape it off. And then I just have to hear him moan and groan and Tyler's just like so upset with me for not just, and I'm like, no. So he's not so picky in that he'll only eat certain foods, but it's picky as in like how the foods are presented.

Sophia 10:15

that makes sense. And that that sounds hard.

Joyce 10:17

You never know what you're going to get. I mean, I think both ends are hard too. Like undereating is stressful. 'cause then you're constantly thinking about calorie input. And then like for me it's like visual input. 'cause you know, he might eat it one day, he might not. But also, like, I don't know if it's gonna cause like a full panic attack meltdown But then I'll look at the other one and he's like, chowing down and eating half the bowl. So I'm like, all right, it tastes good. I know it tastes good. It's just visually disturbing to my child. Or sensory. he doesn't like that his crunch was taken away.

Sophia 10:49

Okay. Crunchy food. Yes. Soggy food. No things touching. No.

Joyce 10:54

Yeah, I know. but then sometimes he'll eat it. I don't know. It's, it's like a whole.

Sophia 10:59

Sometimes you'll bend, sometimes you'll

Joyce 11:00

Yeah. Yeah. If he's hungry enough.

Sophia 11:02

Hmm. there are times when TOV is hungry and he will eat a lot, and then it completely makes my day's crazy how much my mood swings, depending on how much Tov ate for breakfast, lunch, or dinner. There was a time when he never ate breakfast at all.

Joyce 11:19

Yeah.

Sophia 11:20

Now he's starting to eat a little bit more as in like maybe one spoon of rice

Joyce 11:26

Does he snack at all too or He doesn't, snack either.

Sophia 11:29

we don't give a lot of snacks.

Joyce 11:31

Hmm.

Sophia 11:32

The reason is because if I give him snacks, I know he will not.

Joyce 11:35

Eat an meal.

Sophia 11:36

stomach is the size of a cherry

Joyce 11:38

Yeah.

Sophia 11:39

or blueberry or something because he does get full really easily. Like if he ate an apple before a meal, I know it will impact how much he eats for that meal.

Joyce 11:49

Yeah.

Sophia 11:50

apple, so bananas, even just like fruit, I have to really limit what he eats, several hours before mealtime. But when he eats, I am super happy.

Joyce 12:00

Yeah.

Sophia 12:00

and then when he doesn't, I'm just like angry. cause he used to be such a good eater. We went to Korea with him, he was just like, slopping up everything. Like he was such a good eater

Joyce 12:10

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 12:11

turned two. So before that, oh, I was like so relieved because that was one of my worries that I'm gonna raise a picky eater. So the time he was young, I exposed him to variety of foods, and then he always ate what we ate. And I had all these rules that I learned from, you know, all of those parenting advice that targets you on social media, right? They have all these rules of, how to not raise a picky eater. So I follow all of them. And once he turned two, it was like just a light bulb switch. he basically just existed on blueberries

Joyce 12:45

Yeah.

Sophia 12:46

and maybe some rice here or there, but seemed like he was barely hungry

Joyce 12:51

Hmm.

Sophia 12:52

And he's just kept skipping meal after meal. and you can visibly see the changes in his face. Granted, I guess as you

Joyce 13:02

Also getting older.

Sophia 13:03

three, not as chubby

Joyce 13:04

yeah,

Sophia 13:05

even people were commenting about it, his face is like narrowing. so I wasn't worried at first, but I started getting worried when it was just like week after week of week of like, how, are you, how you still surviving? You've gotta be starving, like you're eating less. when I was in my throat, self anorexia,

Joyce 13:23

yeah.

Sophia 13:23

And so that was when I did everything opposite of what the dietician advice was for kids, which is like, thought popsicles. I just put all those high calorie foods

Joyce 13:35

You're like, at least if you eat something, let it be high calorie.

Sophia 13:38

Right,

Joyce 13:38

Yeah.

Sophia 13:39

And we started putting heavy cream into his milk. We still put heavy cream into his

Joyce 13:43

Yeah.

Sophia 13:44

'cause he needs

Joyce 13:45

Some level of fat. Yeah.

Sophia 13:47

way we could insert more calories into his diet. like I put of like sesame oil on his rice. So that has been very stressful for me because it was something I could not control

Joyce 14:00

Yeah.

Sophia 14:00

and it was something that, I was starting to take pride in that he was such a adventurous, good eater.

Joyce 14:06

Mm.

Sophia 14:07

Um, and then that just suddenly went away. yeah. you just cannot force a kid to eat. That's, that's the most exasperating part of this is that even if I. Physically force food into his mouth. He would just spit it out.

Joyce 14:20

Yeah. I.

Sophia 14:20

one thing that also drove me crazy. he spits up so much of his food. would chew, chew, chew, and if he doesn't like it or if the texture's wrong or he just decides he doesn't want it.

Joyce 14:28

yeah,

Sophia 14:29

He just say, I don't like it, but you liked it yesterday.

Joyce 14:32

the conundrum of this age, I mean, does your pediatrician have like concerns about it or they're like, ah, he's on the curve line so we're okay. 'cause he's on the curve line.

Sophia 14:43

So the thing is, because he's always been underweight,

Joyce 14:46

Ah,

Sophia 14:47

he's always like on like, what? 5% tell, so she's just like, well, he's still winning the two 5%.

Joyce 14:55

She's like, he's consistent. She's like, I dunno.

Sophia 14:59

I also think we have a good pediatrician where I can sense that she really hates fear mongering. she always tries to assuage

Joyce 15:07

Yeah.

Sophia 15:07

give reason to be worried because parents worry about everything, Right. we just find

Joyce 15:13

Yeah.

Sophia 15:14

about.

Joyce 15:15

And especially with nowadays, we have way too much exposure to worry about everything.

Sophia 15:20

100% too much.

Joyce 15:22

Yeah. Too much.

Sophia 15:23

So she hasn't really raised alum about it, but she'll mention, Hey, He's Lynn. He's a lanky fellow statement.

Joyce 15:31

Yeah. I mean, I think it would be definitely wake more concerning if he wasn't eating that much and he was like becoming lethargic and he just doesn't have energy, but the kid has plenty, so clearly his body is,

Sophia 15:45

And

Joyce 15:45

he's growing. He's growing.

Sophia 15:48

Yeah. And his brain is working. Um, so that's where I'm not, I'm not worried,

Joyce 15:54

Yeah.

Sophia 15:54

I do get frustrated because number one, I love feeding people.

Joyce 15:58

Yes. Yes you do.

Sophia 16:00

I bake good things.

Joyce 16:02

Yes.

Sophia 16:03

good cookies. I bake good cake. I make carrot cake with cream cheese frosting

Joyce 16:08

cake with cream cheese. Frosting's the best. Oh,

Sophia 16:10

I make sugar cookies and I make scones and I make my own bread. refuses to eat all of it if it comes out of the oven, freshly baked, wonderfully warm

Joyce 16:21

oh. The smelling and the crunch and the heat and the steam. Oh,

Sophia 16:27

Like all, completely homemade. And Nope, he would rather have a stupid muffin in the package that tastes like crap that's filled with cancer, giving adjectives and like preservatives like, why, why are you choosing cancer?

Joyce 16:45

Okay. For, for any mom who's giving, who's listening, who gives kids, I give kids packaged muffins. Okay. So. so don't worry. We're fine. I would definitely rather have a freshly baked

Sophia 16:56

yes.

Joyce 16:56

if I'm offered freshly baked muffin though, I'm gonna take that over preservative muffin. 'cause it doesn't taste the same a hundred percent.

Sophia 17:04

I do eat muffins, um, because I like the top, the muffin top, but it's definitely not as good as home

Joyce 17:13

it's not as good. Yeah. Cookies the goo when you like break it apart. Ugh.

Sophia 17:19

Yes. So

Joyce 17:21

Yeah.

Sophia 17:21

understand this kid, and I, I sometimes I'm like, you are just doing this on purpose to drive me crazy. And, and I even tried to like, disguise it and like, keep a wrap, but,

Joyce 17:35

like, oh look, I took it outta the muffin. And he's like, Hmm, isn't not the same muffin on the counter. You're like,

Sophia 17:41

doesn't work.

Joyce 17:42

no, it's not. I will see. So Kian maybe on top of the picky eating, he has a very refined palate, so he doesn't like prepackaged. for those of you, like I've mentioned before, like Kian has food allergies. And the thing with food allergies is you have to maintain exposure. the plot twist is because, Kian had the food allergies. When I was breastfeeding, I had to maintain a very clean, clean, clean diet. And I have a milk allergy, but I used to just eat some things. I had milk to maintain some level of immunity, but because I had to be so clean on like the top nine allergens in my diet for breastfeeding, my milk allergy became really severe. So. I'm supposed to like, make pancakes and waffles and like muffins to maintain Ian's milk immunity. But it causes a pretty severe reaction on me even just to handle the milk. Uh, like even formula, like when I was at the NICU with Owen, the formula started dropping my hand and then I started getting like reactions from the formula dripping down my hand. So, I don't wanna risk it. 'cause every time I've like made pancakes inhaling it, like I start getting like wheezy, I, my tongue will swell. my whole face gets really itchy, so I can't make it without risking my body going in inflammatory process. So when I'm breastfeeding, I'm very picky about how my body is like inflamed and so I just have to buy. Pre-made waffles. Pre-made pancakes. Pre-made muffins, that I know are allergen safe. But Kean has a refined palette, so if it tastes preservative, like the muffins, like chocolate chip muffins that come from a pre-packaged will not touch it. cause it doesn't taste as good as a homemade muffin if we made it at home.

Sophia 19:24

he

Joyce 19:24

yeah.

Sophia 19:25

the real deal. You can trick

Joyce 19:26

And then he can't even, like if I freeze it and I thaw it, he doesn't like it 'cause it doesn't taste as good. he can pick up on that slight freezer burnt taste. He can taste it, it's maddening. He's like, no, I don't like that because I can taste the freezer. And I'm like,

Sophia 19:43

Hello Princess.

Joyce 19:45

are you kidding me? I'm like, I just bought. I'm gonna give it to Tiger. I was like, at least Tiger will eat it.

Sophia 19:53

Oh my goodness. Uh, I feel bad because Uri will eat. She okay. So she's my good eater. She hasn't turned to

Joyce 20:00

Fingers crossed.

Sophia 20:01

yes, fingers crossed, who knows? But, um, she is still a good eater. and I feel bad because give her a lot of toes lefTovr. Like to tofu wouldn't touch his breakfast. Right. So I just dump it into a little, container and then here's your lunch.

Joyce 20:21

Uh, you know what? It's fine. Yeah. I would, I feel bad. It's like, that's the same thing as eating lefTovrs. So at the same time, it's like, at least he didn't touch it. It's not like you're giving her like what he ate, ate, ate, and like there's like s slobber all over it. It's like nimble.

Sophia 20:38

bite

Joyce 20:39

Yeah. Eh, that's fine. That's the same thing as regular lefTovrs.

Sophia 20:42

Another thing that drives me, that's just amount of waste.

Joyce 20:46

Yes,

Sophia 20:46

I hate scraping so much food

Joyce 20:49

I know I've thought about food composting, but you have to like, well actually I don't want a food compost 'cause I don't garden. But I was thinking of finding people who compost. 'cause there's, I think people will actually pick up your food compost and then take it. 'cause same thing like the waste and dollar signs that you see

Sophia 21:08

Yeah,

Joyce 21:08

you're scraping the food into the trash can. And I'm like, oh my gosh. that's like six bucks of berries.

Sophia 21:16

That's how I do calculate it.

Joyce 21:17

Yeah.

Sophia 21:18

every time, especially with fruit.

Joyce 21:20

Oh, raspberries and blackberries strawberries.

Sophia 21:24

And I'm like, okay, this is like $4 and 50 cents just down the

Joyce 21:29

Yes.

Sophia 21:30

a lot of times I try to eat it, but when he spits things up, this is why I get so

Joyce 21:33

Yeah, it's gross. You can't eat the spit out.

Sophia 21:35

can't eat it. Like I would've eaten lefTovrs, but now nobody can eat

Joyce 21:39

Yeah.

Sophia 21:40

Or like when he mhe things with his fingers and he

Joyce 21:42

yes.

Sophia 21:43

food and he just becomes this goo,

Joyce 21:46

Yeah. I feel bad 'cause like Ty will do things where he'll like mash up his food and then Ian will see tides doing it, and so he'll try to be silly and do it, but we'll yell at Ian. But to be fair also, TJ will do it and then he'll eat it as he's like mashing it and he'll eat the thing that he's mashing, right? So we don't get as mad because we're like, he's eating it, but Kean just mashes it for the sake of being silly and it's food waste. I'm like, and so we're like, don't do it. He's like, but Ty does it. I'm like, Ty's actually eating it. You are just crushing it. And now we can't do anything with that food that you just completely made a weird pile out of. Because he is not lefTovrs and is completely destroyed. Food

Sophia 22:26

yeah.

Joyce 22:27

we can't eat.

Sophia 22:28

I totally get it. I try to think of it at least, this is the sensory place. This is

Joyce 22:33

Yeah.

Sophia 22:34

motor development, you know, growth,

Joyce 22:37

Yeah.

Sophia 22:38

Fine growth

Joyce 22:39

Fine growth, fine motor skills. You're like, these are fine motor skill development. Yeah. These are fine motor finger tasks. He's gonna be a great piano player someday.

Sophia 22:49

When I'm conscious about it, I actually do have to pray before each meal because it gets very frustrating because not is there just the not eating part and the picky eating part, but it's also the behaviors of constantly clamps up the table.

Joyce 23:06

Oh yeah.

Sophia 23:06

And for me it's like way overstimulating because he's got his face right in mind and he's like reaching across the table. He's making a mess and just the whole energy, you know how like when there's someone with too high energy next to you and it's mealtime and you just want some peace.

Joyce 23:22

Yes.

Sophia 23:23

It's just like, it's so triggering for me. I get so impatient. That's when I start getting snappy. I'm like, sit down, get your butt down. Like how many times? Like sometimes like in my worst moments, I'm like slamming my hand on the table. I told you to get

Joyce 23:38

Yeah.

Sophia 23:38

And then he would like slide underneath the table and then he's like kicking at my chair, kicking at Woody's chair. Like the behavior problems when it comes to feeding our children is another source of stress for me.

Joyce 23:51

Oh, I know the battles, like when they're all, in the high chair and they're at that point of like. Maybe transitioning outta the highchair, but you're trying to keep 'em in the highchair and they're just screaming and they're fighting you. And then they're like thrashing. And you're like, oh. And then once they're out of the highchair, the stress of getting them in and out. And then you're like, stop touching things. Two, eat your food. Just finish eating your food. And like three, I'm like, why can't we just have a quiet meal?

Sophia 24:17

Yeah,

Joyce 24:17

want it. I wanna enjoy my meal. You don't have to eat your meal, but I wanna enjoy my meal at least. Please.

Sophia 24:24

this is why I have my main meal of the day after the kids go to bed.

Joyce 24:28

Oh my gosh, y'all, whenever we were recording on podcasts, we're like, we'll finish and it's like 10 o'clock at night and then Sophie's like, I need to go eat my dinner. And I'm like, what?

Sophia 24:39

But actually yesterday I was still parenting and I just didn't even have time to eat. and most of the time, like it's hard for me to eat when David's not around at least with David, he eats very fast and then he's already cleaning up, um, while I'm still eating and I'm a slower eater. And then when I'm solo parenting, because there's no one

Joyce 25:00

Yeah.

Sophia 25:00

the kids too, it's like to will

Joyce 25:03

Way more chaos. Yeah.

Sophia 25:04

He's putting his hands into my food, like exists too much and I get overstimulated. So in order for me to curb any reasons for me to ragy at my kids, I just try to remove all of that. So either I'm just kind of munching while I'm already cleaning or I just don't eat until, they go down to bed.

Joyce 25:24

Yeah,

Sophia 25:25

how

Joyce 25:25

fair. I usually do that too, where it's like if I'm by myself, 'cause part of it is just. It's stressful, like, 'cause the kids are running around, they're going to eat, they eat less. So they finish before you and then you're trying to enjoy your meal, but then it's just stressful and then you chill because you're like stressed out. Um, you're like, no, like, okay, now I was like, great. Now I'm gonna have diarrhea later. But, um, like it's just stomach pains and then I'll eat small portion and then after they go to sleep. And I feel like whenever you're solo parenting too, it's like they decide to go to sleep at like 9:00 PM instead of like their normal You know what I mean? So you're already ragey 'cause everyone's tired

Sophia 26:05

For me though, it takes so much longer for them to go to bed. 'cause there's so much more things that. need to do it by myself, like cleaning up, vacuuming the house because there's always sticky stuff. By the end of the night. even when I vacuumed and cleaned a few hours before,

Joyce 26:21

Yep.

Sophia 26:22

there's always

Joyce 26:22

Yep.

Sophia 26:23

residue. And then for some reason, like the kitchen counters are disgusting, the dining table's disgusting. And then while I'm cleaning up, the kids are making messes, so I'm

Joyce 26:34

The undoing everything you're cleaning.

Sophia 26:37

Yes. Yeah. This is why my danger zone is the evening time when I'm

Joyce 26:42

Yeah.

Sophia 26:42

tired. I just want them to go to bed. I just want, want to like chill out. But then it kept getting longer and longer and longer because have hands and legs and they run around and they pull things out and they dump things everywhere and we talked about discipline, but this is one of the things that I'm still working on with my kids

Joyce 27:02

It's also just the age that they are, right? Like I feel like at this age too, things are happening faster than you could even register as an adult. And unless you are thinking four steps ahead and you're home, completely toddler proof, which means putting everything six feet above. there's absolutely no doors and no drawers and no baskets anywhere, and the kids can't touch anything, which would be a boring house for a child. There's just like no way that you can avoid some sort of mess that's gonna happen. But like end of bedtime, post dinner, getting like the hour leading up to dinner is so much stress and chaos. And then after dinner, like the, rush from dinner to bedtime is like high stress, not just for you, for. Many, many people. I think it's the most stressful 'cause everyone's tired. The easiest to dysregulate, easiest time to get overstimulated, and easiest time to get like overtired, depending on how the schedule goes.

Sophia 28:00

Yeah. most of my mom rich moments are those days, the evening

Joyce 28:05

yeah.

Sophia 28:06

where the day keeps lengthening and lengthening. I feel like I have no control and then I just it. and then the kids are like more dysregulated during that time too.

Joyce 28:16

right.

Sophia 28:16

I think one of the things that has helped me that we just implemented not too long ago, maybe a month ago, is that now, when David gets off work, that's when I start cooking instead of me having dinner prepared when David

Joyce 28:30

Yeah.

Sophia 28:30

work.

Joyce 28:31

Yeah.

Sophia 28:32

so David gets up work at five and he takes the kids and he bathes them I'm

Joyce 28:38

interesting. Yeah.

Sophia 28:39

we do bath time before dinner time. it sounds counterintuitive, but it just works for

Joyce 28:44

It works for you. That's cool.

Sophia 28:45

Because then I get to cook dinner without multiple interruptions and then getting frustrated because the kids are making a mess while, and they're running all around me. and I'm tripping

Joyce 28:56

yeah,

Sophia 28:57

their toys. And it's just, the prime conditions for mom rage. So that was one of the things that, I worked it out like, I really need to remove all of these things that create unnecessary stress for me. So that was one thing we implemented recently and yes, really

Joyce 29:13

yeah.

Sophia 29:14

Like that's the time when I actually got to listen to my audiobook. I'm listening to David Copperfield right now, so I do that while I'm cooking. I honestly only get 15 minutes before a naked trial runs out.

Joyce 29:27

But those are glorious. 15 minutes.

Sophia 29:30

They're like run out. The moment they get out of the shower, just naked, running back, to me. I'm like, why? stay.

Joyce 29:39

Tyler laughed 'cause so Tyler in our house actually is the one who makes dinner most times now. Before it was me, but when I was the one primarily making all the meals and I made dinner, I always did it when Tyler got off of work because it was just too hard and chaotic. Part of it's also preschool pickup was like at four 30, so I'm like rushing into preschool pickup and then coming back and I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna be able to get dinner. And like I have all the kids and it's just like chaotic and it was just so, so stressful. So we now eat dinner like at six o'clock. Because I would have to wait until Tyler gets off work before I start cooking. And then now Tyler cooks his cooks the dinners, and then that's obviously when he finishes his work. But one time I remember Tyler was cooking and the kids, I had like Owen in my arms and like the kids were downstairs and I was like coming to the kitchen just for myself. There was no reason to have any child with me except for Owen. 'cause obviously I'm just holding him and then I'm walking and then you just see like the kids keying. And Tiger just following me. Tyler's just cracking. 'cause he's like, oh, they're like little ducklings. 'cause like everywhere I went, they just trailed me. And he was just like, they're just following you. And I was like, why?

Sophia 30:52

Yeah.

Joyce 30:54

I'm like, reenacting is holding a baby. I'm like, why are you following? Just sit on the couch. Sit on the couch everywhere. She's like, I'm like.

Sophia 31:05

is, this seems pretty typical because like even when we are out as a family, David's right there. Mike say kids. Yeah, say, says, But you know what's so funny is that I'm stressed out because to is under eating and, but sometimes the little stresses that I feel like is overeating because that this girl is a bottomless pit. And I actually sometimes worry that her will burst because she eats so much, just like nonstop snacking. she will eat her food and she'll eat all of right after that, she still has snacks.

Joyce 31:45

I mean,

Sophia 31:45

where it goes.

Joyce 31:46

they actually have the most amount of growth right now, and like right around three and four, like right around three, like that, two to three is when it starts to slow down. So I'm not surprised that she was eating like that much. Ty was like that too. And then once he hit like two. like your growth curve starts to slow down. They're not growing as rapidly, so Tai, I noticed he was like Odie where he was just eating all the time and then we would actually give him Ian's lefTovrs too. 'cause he would like eat all his dinner and I'm like, all right, well we'll just eat the food that your brother didn't eat. That's fine. But then like right around two is when I noticed like he started being more interested in moving than eating

Sophia 32:22

Yeah. But Udi moves plenty as well. She's actually, she's still on the lower percentile for her body weight, which I'm very surprised about.

Joyce 32:29

Honestly, it makes me wonder how big kids are. I mean, Ty is, he's I the average and he is like 20 something pounds, whatever. But whenever we get him weight, they're all like, oh yeah, he's like 30th percentile. And I'm like, 30th percentile. How big? Our two year olds nowadays, you know what I mean? I'm like, dang. I was like, these kids are tanks. And to be fair, from what I've learned in school from my background, but those curves shift a little bit like with time, depending on what the average. So once they start seeing a crazy average and kids are getting bigger and bigger, they'll shift it just a little bit. cause kids back then we were not getting as big as kids now. 'cause food and accessibility was definitely not as all about like possible. So the curves have shifted a little bit 'cause kids are getting more access to food, unfortunately access to more unhealthy foods as well.

Sophia 33:27

Yeah. I'm curious if you have food rules children besides for allergy, but I have friends are very much very health conscious with the kids and like even to parties, they'll pack their own snack so that it's healthy. the whole Maha movement I'm seeing a lot of content of like everything has to be made from scratch. I don't know, there's just a lot of fear mongering on.

Joyce 33:52

Health.

Sophia 33:53

Yes.

Joyce 33:54

Mm-hmm. On nutrition?

Sophia 33:56

that are bad. Now, even though I did my research, I'm like, I haven't seen clear evidence that seed oils are bad for

Joyce 34:02

No, They actually show better results. Like if you actually look at cardiovascular risks, seed oils actually have more protective results than like non seeded oil.

Sophia 34:12

now, like Costco is selling beef tallow because people are avoiding seed oils, and then now chips are made with avocado oil and they cost a lot more because they have avocado oil. And, and I have friends who are like, oh, we don't go to this restaurant anymore because we found out that they grill the chicken in canola oil.

Joyce 34:28

Yeah. That's what makes it taste good, but

Sophia 34:31

but again, one of things that there is so much. Health information out there that is so easily accessible. even if you're not on social media, you're gonna hear your friends talking about it. And I feel like that just creates a lot of extra stress comes to feeding our children, because obviously we want our children to be healthy. We don't want our children to have cancer or, or deal with obesity or on the flip side, eating disorder. I'm very conscious about it because that's my history. but yeah. I'm just curious if have certain philosophies or rules about food and feeding your children and or maybe that has changed over the years.

Joyce 35:15

I think, so Ian with his food allergies, we couldn't give him a lot of food. So he naturally, by default was eating really healthy at the very beginning because we couldn't give him any of the top nine allergens until he got tested. and it was very slow process of what we can give him. So. I think my mentality was a little bit of a difference in that I always had to keep him away from things and I always felt bad because he couldn't get to do what other kids did. And it's not to say that you know, would I have given him like all these crazy store-bought cupcakes and all the time and stuff no. Like I think there's within reason. so I think for me, my like, OMA heart was just always kind of really sad because we go to birthday parties and sometimes we just have to leave. 'cause even if they didn't serve the cupcakes yet, I'm watching all the kids eat the cupcakes and they're touching things all over the place. And so we're like, it's a safety issue. And also Ian's like, can I have a cupcake? And he would ask me, we're like, no, sorry buddy. Like we can't. And like I would try to bring my own stuff to give him. So a level of like exclusion has made me feel bad. So like when we are able to include him in things, even if it's like, quote unquote unhealthy or like it's junk food, I give him that opportunity because he actually doesn't have a lot of those moments that he can have. But, do I give my kids candy? Yeah, I give my kids candy. but do I also give my kids fruit? I give my kids fruit. I think a well balanced exposure to elements. Uh, like they eat protein, they eat fruit and fiber. They get plenty of like carbs, you know, whole brains and yeah, they eat candy. We obviously don't like let them go crazy and eat like 45 packs of gummy bears, but if they ask for it, we give it to them. I've seen benefit for me personally, not for like other people, but I think for me personally, letting them explore in like eating a donut and eating cupcakes because they show their own self restraint. the only rule we do is like, we just try not to put things on a pedestal. 'cause then it creates like a glory factor, right? So whatever he can eat that is safe within reason with his allergies, then we let him have it. And he eats it like regularly enough that he'll eat a fourth of a cupcake and he's like, oh, I'm good. Or he eat a couple bites of a donut and he's like, I'm good. And he's learned his own self moderation. and I never taught that to him.

Sophia 37:44

Yeah, intuitive eating.

Joyce 37:46

yeah, and I just let him do it. overall, yeah, we don't really have hard eating rules. More just of like, let's just make sure it's all balanced. Like when they get candy, on Halloween or like Easter egg hunt, whatever, I'll probably let 'em go crazy on the baskets. Like eat several bags, you know, together. But then afterwards they forget about it. Like we let 'em eat whenever they ask for it, but then they just forget about it and then I put it away. But the only thing is I have to weigh pros and cons of his sugar intake and like added sugar, uh, because it flares up his eczema. And when it flares up his eczema, it makes him more pro food allergy trigger. So I have to like weigh it out a little bit. There's a balance for me of letting him be a kid and be excited. He just had Easter egg hunt and he got to have all these candies and like let him enjoy that moment, but also not let him go off the rails because then we'll start seeing his eczema start flaring up within the same day almost. and then if his eczema gets stuck in a inflammatory cycle and we can't cut it because he keeps eating too much sugar, then it makes him more food reactive.

Sophia 38:55

So it sounds like you guys have enough anxiety about food

Joyce 38:59

I know.

Sophia 39:00

kids for you to wanna add extra stress.

Joyce 39:03

Yeah, I think part of it's like he already has so much food anxiety because of his allergies too. and it's hard 'cause it's like I just feel bad 'cause it's like we go somewhere and there have been times where we walked into a birthday party that he's so excited about and then we see his allergens and it's like totally fine if the allergens are there, but people are eating off of it and it's like people are touching everything and it is just everywhere. And so we've walked in where we've all have to be like, I'm sorry kid. Like we have to go and like we will pull him off. and he's so sad when he's disappointed, but he also understands when it comes to his food allergies, like it's a safety issue and his life issue. So he understands that. But it's just. It's hard. So I think for Tyler and I, because we just feel so sad of like having to exclude him more than include him, that when we can find ways to include him, that's like relatively what all the other kids do. He gets to have it Like he got to have his first churro ever at Disneyland.

Sophia 40:08

Oh

Joyce 40:09

and he was so excited, but unfortunately he like had a reaction to it. So it was like,

Sophia 40:15

Really?

Joyce 40:15

yeah. So

Sophia 40:18

Maybe there was not product.

Joyce 40:19

no, I think his, I don't think he has a strong enough milk immunity to the churro

Sophia 40:24

Oh

Joyce 40:24

'cause it's fried. Yeah. So we're trying to figure out if it's the true or not. But it definitely, like, he ate it. That's the only thing I can think of. And like later on as the day went on, he just started getting really itchy and he just started getting splotchy and his rash started spreading. But it was, you know, it presented as an eczema flare up. So we were trying to figure out like, is this his eczema or is this his milk? Like is this a milk reactivity that we're getting from him? so again, then I just felt bad. 'cause the next day he's like, can I get a churro? And I had to say no, because your body's not as immune to it as we thought it was. And we have to kind of work on that a little bit more before you can have it. so yeah, I think because of that there's a little bit of that sadness and guilt that like wherever we can include it and where we're like, yeah man, go ham. Within reason,

Sophia 41:08

Yeah, It is said at such a young age, he already sees food as safe and unsafe

Joyce 41:13

Yeah, like we went into a bakery and he like knows automatically, like, does this have my allergens, does this not? And like even Costco, like Costco has that giant nut aisle, but it's like we have to go through that to like get certain parts of the store. And so I'll say like, hands in and then they all put their hands in and Kune will put his hands in his pocket to make sure he doesn't like, accidentally touch something, that he might have an accidental reaction to. it adds a whole other element of like, stress, like grocery shopping is stressful, going out to eat is stressful, We don't go out to eat anywhere except for like three restaurants. And going to parties. I've probably lost a few friendships because I said no to their invites so many times. And it's because there's just no way that we can go and it's safe. Like, it could be potentially safe, but it's stressful. Like Tyler and I can't enjoy where we're at 'cause our eyes are on Kian and we're tracing everyone's hands. Like I am literally watching what people eat and then I'd watch what they touch and then I'm watching where Ian touches and I'm like, calculating. Like, is he going to touch that or is he not? I'm watching little kids. Little kids don't eat the same way as adults do. And you know, I'm watching what they're touching and I'm watching Kian touching and then I'm like, it's just so much anxiety that, we would rather say no or we come in, say hi to the party, 15 minutes, bounce, like before everyone gets there and starts eating. So it's he lives his life pretty anxious. Because of his food. I think also Tyler and I are anxious people and we kind of probably push the anxiety a little bit too hard versus like giving him a little bit more bravery and courage of like, you don't have to be scared of peanuts, but you have to be safe around peanuts. But also, it makes me sad that at that age he has to learn to be a pretty strong advocate for himself. Like he's had to advocate pretty strongly. Like when he like at school and he went to a preschool that was nut free, but one time a parent forgotten. A kid packed peanut butter and jelly to school and it's a peanut free school. And Ian caught it and Ian was the first one, like, who noted it. And when the teachers called me, they were like, Ian's having a reaction. We have no idea why. Like, when Ian FaceTimed me, which was like one of the scariest moments ever, 'cause his face was so swollen, like I couldn't See his eyes, the first thing he says, he is like, oh, so and so had peanut butter and jelly. And the teachers were like, there's no way. And they said, no, no, Ian, he didn't have it. And Ian's like, ahma, he had peanut butter and jelly. And I was like, I believe Kian. He doesn't lie. And then eventually they're like, okay. and like Tyler's on the way driving there and the teacher after they hung up, called the parent, and the parent was like, oh yeah, I gave him peanut butter and jelly. And the teacher's like, what are you doing? This is a peanut free school. You've been going here for like three years. You know, this is a peanut free school. and I had to ask him like, did you touch him? Did you eat it? And he's like, no, but that's how sensitive he is. It's like he didn't, yeah. He started reacting to it. So unfortunately we put a lot of anxiety on him, but he's also had a lot of. Incidences where it creates anxiety and he understands the gravity of it, that he also carries that anxiety.

Sophia 44:27

situation, but yes, it is hard on other individuals involved.

Joyce 44:32

Yeah. And it's not just like at parties. I think that's what it's hard for people to understand is I'm like, when we go out in public areas like parks, I'm watching Kian like a hawk.

Sophia 44:44

Yeah. I'm at the park with you and I see it.

Joyce 44:46

yeah, I'm like, my eyes are on him at all times. 'cause it's like, I know people are eating peanuts at the park and then those kids are now touching everything at the playground. And a lot of individual people don't realize like. The cross-contamination is pretty quick. You can touch the peanut once and everything you touch for the next hour will be cross-contaminated. So a kid eats peanuts, they touch everything in that playground in an hour, that entire surface is cross-contaminated. He and touches that and he happens to touch his eye, his nose, his mouth, he touches his food to eat it. He'll have a reaction and we won't know what it's from. So I think that's like, what's hard is like, depending on how sensitive you are, like, you know, he's like had reactions to residue from touching something out surface, like out in public area. And I think that's hard for people to understand is like food allergies goes beyond just a simple moment of food consumption. It can happen from contact as well. and inhalation for some people.

Sophia 45:47

Yeah, learned a lot despite being your friend Joyce. 'cause I never had exposure to people with serious food allergies. When I first immigrated to the us that's when I first heard of a peanut allergy.

Joyce 46:01

Yeah.

Sophia 46:02

But then I've never met anyone with actual peanut allergy. but then I always just assume, oh, so that person will just avoid eating peanuts. Like that was how simply I thought of it. And then I have friends who have gluten sensitivity, but then again, the adults, they just choose to not to eat things with gluten in it. they're cautious about what they eat outside. you and knowing the story with Kim was the first time I realized, wow, this is very serious. and this is terrifying. For the parents. it has been a good educational experience for me because I came in knowing nothing and then now I come being a lot more conscious of it. even then, still not a constant consciousness.

Joyce 46:44

Right,

Sophia 46:44

it's only conscious when I actively think about it.

Joyce 46:47

right.

Sophia 46:48

I end making mistakes like, one time after church, our church gives us snacks and Tov has this puffs that they give out. Um, I forgot the name of it.

Joyce 46:58

Yeah. The Pirate's booty. Yeah.

Sophia 47:00

Booty. And I never even thought to look at the ingredients, so I didn't even know that he had dairy products in

Joyce 47:06

Yeah.

Sophia 47:06

KIS right there and Toby's munching on his captain's booty. And I saw Tyler kind of get nervous. That's when I was like, oh, I should check what is actually in captain's booty because I didn't even know that he had dairy. So that was, again, that's the kind the, the consciousness that I have to keep reminding myself, as someone who has friends with this. but it is a constant learning experience.

Joyce 47:34

Yeah.

Sophia 47:34

but I have to say too, that Joyce, You've always been really gracious. even when your friends make mistakes, I really admire and, appreciate that about you.

Joyce 47:43

Thank you.

Sophia 47:44

if it was me, I think I would be so frustrated and angry I would explain this to you. How did you, how did you forget, But you always meet people with empathy, and not assuming bad intentions. I wanna call you out for that.

Joyce 48:00

Thank you.

Sophia 48:00

Yeah.

Joyce 48:01

I think part of it is like, I appreciate when like friends like you who make such an effort, and I understand when you don't live in that world, it's very hard to understand the level of microscopic attention that we pay attention to. So we don't expect, other people to have that level, right? So the fact that you and other people will come ask and double check like means so much to me because there are other people who haven't done that and have brought allergens into our home. And that is honestly one of the scariest things a person can do is bring one of Ian's allergens into our home. 'cause it's like the sanctity of our home has been ruined. And some people who've done that, like didn't understand why Tyler and I were flipping out about it and I was like, you just made our home unsafe. this was the one place that we can not have to worry. And now I have to sanitize every surface you have touched. which is literally everything from the front door all the way up until the kitchen. And so when people make an effort to try to do right for us, like that means a lot and you're going to make mistakes, but it's like, that's okay. The fact that you're even trying is like so meaningful to us, so,

Sophia 49:15

thing I did learn, and I never even thought, okay, this is how ignorant I was and still probably am, but it was URIs sec first to,

Joyce 49:24

mm-hmm.

Sophia 49:25

and I didn't even think to ask. In our invite, what allergies you have. But then I was thinking, oh, I already know my friends who have allergies. but then I remember I completely forgot about Tyler Allergy,

Joyce 49:38

Because Tyler's allergies get tied in with, uh, will's allergy. So we never talk about Tyler's allergies.

Sophia 49:43

but I was still concentrated more on Kian and then,

Joyce 49:45

Yeah,

Sophia 49:46

I knew, about dairy and nuts

Joyce 49:50

yeah,

Sophia 49:50

forgot that Tyler actually, I didn't even know that he was, that severely allergic to salmon because I had

Joyce 49:57

And red snapper,

Sophia 49:58

talked about his fish allergy, so I knew he had a fish allergy, but there were times when there were comments that was like, oh, he's, he'll be fine. Like, I was like, oh, he has an allergy, but it's mild. He just needs to avoid it. I made assumptions. That was my first mistake. I made assumptions. And I never actually knew that he was severely allergic to salmon. And guess what? We had, we had

Joyce 50:20

Giant

Sophia 50:21

platter, huge salmon. I didn't even know until after the fact. And then, oh my God, sorry I didn't tell you this, but I thought about it for weeks. I was

Joyce 50:32

Oh

Sophia 50:33

mortified. I was like, oh my goodness. Because I realized what my mistake was. I should have double checked, triple checked not make assumptions because I thought I already knew what your allergies were. But then I forgot one integral member of your family. So I'm so sorry.

Joyce 50:48

it's so fun. You know, like, but the fact that like, I think it's still meaningful for me the fact that you even care that much. 'cause even like one time there was a Instagram influencer I follow and she was asking about birthday party rules and stuff and like, she's like, what do you guys do? What are formalities that you like to see? And I wrote on there and I said like. I think it would be meaningful for people to ask what food allergies there are and to try to accommodate that and the amount of people who responded back and said, that's just too hard. You're asking too much. I was like surprised and like really caught off guard. it's just that people don't want the inconvenience. A lot of people don't want inconvenience and it's like the statistics on bullying, on food allergies is kind of scary. One in five kids who have food allergies report being bullied with their food allergies, like threatened with their allergies.

Sophia 51:38

Oh my

Joyce 51:38

And a lot of it is coming from parent education and it's a lot coming from how the parents speak about their classmates. Like, oh, just don't invite Susie because she has that food allergy and I just don't wanna deal with it. And so like, the way that the parent may speak around it and address it, but it broke my heart to see so many kids actually be threatened. Like one girl talked about another friend of hers in a group, got mad at her about something and so then the next day threatened her with the food allergy. And like, I was like, huh,

Sophia 52:09

My gosh.

Joyce 52:11

that's terrifying. Like obviously the parents like reprimanded her and like she had to like advocate for herself. But bullying is already something that's like always on my mind. 'cause I've been bullied, like all throughout elementary school and middle school and high school even. Uh, and that then to know that there's a whole other niche of like food allergy bullying was like so stressful for me to like, learn about that. it's like one out of three or five kids, with food allergies report being bullied. And it also includes teachers, like 20% of those kids reported that their teachers were the ones who were bullying them because the teacher just didn't wanna deal with the safety precautions that comes with it

Sophia 52:49

They see people's issues as inconvenience.

Joyce 52:51

like seeing it as like a life threatening, life risk, you know, safety issue. So

Sophia 52:58

lot of it is is ignorance though,

Joyce 52:59

yeah.

Sophia 53:00

cruelty? Um, I mean sorry to harp on Koreans, but. Like if you tired of Korean vegan, they'll still put

Joyce 53:09

Yeah.

Sophia 53:09

everything. Right? Like, like, it's like it's not a big deal. Um, like I've heard comments of like, why are they flipping out over so much?

Joyce 53:18

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 53:18

just chill and then your kid will be fine. that kind of comment works like why are you so drama?

Joyce 53:25

Yeah. my mom has even said that to me because one time she made, but she put peanuts in it and forgot, and then brought it to our house, and I almost fed it to Ian. 'cause she's like, oh, make it for Ian. There's nothing in there. And then I called her later on just to like double check on something else. And then while I'm talking to her, she's like, oh, actually. Oh yeah. Like, you know what, don't give Kian that there's actually peanuts in it. And I was like, do you understand what you just did One, that would've killed him. And I was like, two, you've just contaminated. And she's like, oh, well just like save the container. I'm like, I'm not saving that container. That container's getting tossed outside the house. she's like, but that's a really good container. And she's like, you know, Joyce, like, I think you're just being too difficult like about this. And I was like, no, you weren't the one. Seeing what happens when he gets exposed, you've never seen it. So you don't get to tell me that I'm being too difficult when it's my child's life on the line. No, you don't get to tell me that I'm being overreactive because I have watched like what has happened from it and it's been horrible. you don't understand like how serious it is until you either hear stories firsthand or you see it and it's like you really don't wanna be in the situation of seeing it firsthand.

Sophia 54:49

Yeah,

Joyce 54:50

Yeah.

Sophia 54:51

I can only imagine.

Joyce 54:53

Yeah, it's really, stressful on that. So thankfully Ian has been slowly growing out of his allergies like a champ. and he's been taking it, I think as gracious as he can, as a 4-year-old navigating really serious food allergies. but yeah, it definitely puts like food anxiety anywhere we go, everywhere we go. you know, I'm that person like at Costco or like at like grocery carts like crazy, wiping down all the carts and people probably think, oh, she's scared of COVID, COVID is over. I'm like, no, it's because of you. People who eat un touch the carts. I'm like, wiping everything down. Yeah. Yeah.

Sophia 55:34

It is hard to live with that knowledge that there is danger anywhere that in the most innocuous

Joyce 55:42

Yeah.

Sophia 55:44

level of stress I haven't been able to experience, but I can only imagine.

Joyce 55:48

Yeah. So, okay. When you asked me, Sophia about whether or not we have any rules, it opened up the whole conversation about food allergies and we kind of took a huge segue and talk about food allergies, which caveat to everybody. Sophia and I were already kind of planning for this. Uh, so we were kind of planning on having a tangent about the food allergy realm because it does impact our eating does impact the way we eat in my family. But Sophia, do you guys have any like rules or like structures around eating and meals other than trying to get any high calorie meal? You can get into your kiddo.

Sophia 56:30

Oh my God, we took such a detour. I

Joyce 56:32

Yeah,

Sophia 56:32

forgot my question. So thank you for asking. We would've just ended it here.

Joyce 56:39

I know.

Sophia 56:39

um, I was a lot more strict with my first. I didn't give him refined sugars or refined carbohydrates. was a lot more, I try to be as healthy as possible and I actually made my own chicken broth. Um,

Joyce 56:55

Which tastes so good though.

Sophia 56:56

but also once I had a second child, it's hard to keep up that kind of, mm, restrictions, it's hard to keep it because when 12 is eating a lollipop, rule was I didn't want 12 or woody to be eating refined sugars until they were two. once in a while it's fine, but I didn't want 'em to have like a daily

Joyce 57:21

Yeah.

Sophia 57:22

before they were two. And after two, that's when I really relaxed, because before they turned to, I really want them to not rely on that craving for sugar

Joyce 57:32

Yeah.

Sophia 57:32

sugar is addictive.

Joyce 57:34

Yeah, a hundred percent. Totally.

Sophia 57:36

so that's what I was trying to avoid. But now every time after a meal, Tov gets a special treat. We call it a special treat and so I'm doing everything wrong, quote unquote. Because I know the idea was that every food is supposed to be neutral, from the dieticians and the child psychologist or whatever, that food is supposed to be neutral. Like some even advocate for serving dessert with female. I've never been brave enough to do that,

Joyce 58:04

I have done that before and honestly, I don't know what people are talking about. They'll eat the dessert and they won't eat the meal, so I'm like, ah, forget it.

Sophia 58:12

And with to under eating, I wanna get as much nutritious food into him as possible. so if I serve him a meal with a lollipop, he's gonna eat the lollipop and he's

Joyce 58:23

totally.

Sophia 58:25

plus that sugar, there's something that satisfies your palate, and then you don't have

Joyce 58:29

Yeah.

Sophia 58:30

an appetite for savory food anymore, right?

Joyce 58:32

It also changes your palate, Like it changes your ability to taste things well, so everything doesn't taste as good either. So you like, yuck. Why would I eat steak when I just had this crazy coating of sugar on my tongue now?

Sophia 58:44

Right. So in a way, I guess I still have that ough until year two. I really try to limit refined sugar. now right after dinner, Toby's eating a chocolate Toby's, eating a Popsicle,

Joyce 58:55

Yeah.

Sophia 58:56

a lo of pop.

Joyce 58:57

Udi's like, what is this?

Sophia 59:00

Well, when she was younger, she didn't know any better. But then now she's super conscious, she's really conscious of what to is eating. She's conscious of what I'm eating. so she's like crying, screaming, whining, wanting what he has. so now I let to share it with her, but then at first she was satisfied with that, but now she's like, she wants her own.

Joyce 59:22

Yeah.

Sophia 59:22

So I've definitely relaxed that rule quite a bit.

Joyce 59:26

It's so much harder when you have your second 'cause they see what your oldest is doing and they learn pretty quick. Like he has something that looks yummy and I don't have it. What is this?

Sophia 59:39

injustice?

Joyce 59:40

Yeah.

Sophia 59:42

But also, David and I like treats.

Joyce 59:46

Yeah.

Sophia 59:47

in fact, I have a whole basket full of snacks it's like only for me after the kids go to

Joyce 59:53

Yeah.

Sophia 59:53

I, I will show you that basket. one day. I used to have an, ottoman opens and then it's like a,

Joyce 1:00:00

like storage ottoman. Yeah.

Sophia 1:00:02

Mine is like filled with snacks because in-laws came over and they were looking for blankets. They lifted, I mean, still with food. I was like, what?

Joyce 1:00:16

You're like, we're in a war and we actually have to hide our food now.

Sophia 1:00:20

I am definitely not like it can never eat sugar.

Joyce 1:00:22

Right.

Sophia 1:00:23

and I personally a lot of treats. Um, but I thought I had it hidden pretty well. 'cause it in the family room is up on top of the closet, But one day, you know, it was really quiet

Joyce 1:00:37

Oh.

Sophia 1:00:39

told happened to be in school because he's in school twice a week. And it was just, and like this is remarkably quiet because sometimes I just let her roam

Joyce 1:00:48

Yeah,

Sophia 1:00:49

but it goes like 20 minutes and it's very quiet. And I finally find her with the whole basket. I do not know how she found it. Just open all the contents, like she somehow ripped open. She's just like she's. So I'm like, oh, great. Okay. You say take a week's worth of sugar.

Joyce 1:01:13

Oh my gosh. That's like, I remember tyke. Um, I have two favorite memories of Tyke when he was really little. His first one was like when he was barely like just army crawling

Sophia 1:01:23

Mm-hmm.

Joyce 1:01:24

like he. knew the crinkle of chips and like he knew the crinkle of like yummy bags. So Tyler and I, we would just like go to the pantry just to see if we could entice him. And we like crinkle a bag and you wait, like you wait 30 seconds, you keep crinkling it and you'd just hear duh.

Sophia 1:01:43

Ringing.

Joyce 1:01:43

Yeah. And then he just comes straight into the kitchen. He just stares at you. Like Nadu. Like uhhuh. Yeah. And then like, um, the other one is like when Kian got to have his first ice cream from an ice cream shop for the first time for his third birthday, uh, Ty obviously I didn't give it to him 'cause he was only one. I'm not gonna give him like a scoop of ice cream. And it's, you just see this hand coming out like in the video you just see this hand coming in, like trying to scoop. Try to grab with his hand Ian's ice cream. Cian's just like, Nope. Keeps eating. Nope. Keeps eating. And you see this hand coming in, it's just, it's really hard. Yeah. And then at a certain point he was like, and then I just had a meltdown. 'cause he's like, girl. But it's hard, like once you have like multiple kids, they see what the older kids are eating and it's like you can do your best to like limit it, but you also can't.

Sophia 1:02:44

Again, the one more thing that we don't have control over, I mean, let me tell you what, 12 ate today He had rice with ketchup. maybe some blueberries for lunch, he had three strawberries and one quarter of an apple.

Joyce 1:02:59

Okay. He got fiber.

Sophia 1:03:01

oh, he did wake up at 5:00 AM so he had a little bit of milk, like three ounces.

Joyce 1:03:05

Hmm.

Sophia 1:03:06

And then after lunch he finally got hungry. Music to my ears. When Tov tells me he's hungry, he's like, yes.

Joyce 1:03:14

You're like, what would you like?

Sophia 1:03:16

yeah, I made him an oatmeal with heavy cream.

Joyce 1:03:18

Mm-hmm.

Sophia 1:03:20

he had maybe half of it. I ate the rest. and then for dinner he had rice with ketchup. I honestly though, I give him like a variety, like he has a whole tray and I give him the same thing that we all eat, but he would eat what he wants.

Joyce 1:03:34

Yeah. At the end of the day, they still eat what they want.

Sophia 1:03:37

Yeah,

Joyce 1:03:38

Like,

Sophia 1:03:38

to just be satisfied with Do you have enough calories for the day? Yeah,

Joyce 1:03:42

yeah,

Sophia 1:03:43

I still care about nutrition, but my main focus is just, do you have enough calories? Which is why I let him have a sweet treat. after every meal,

Joyce 1:03:52

yeah.

Sophia 1:03:52

so after breakfast, he had a lollipop. After lunch, he had a popsicle and a cookie, after dinner he had a chocolate.

Joyce 1:04:01

Yeah. I mean, honestly, I get you wanna build healthy habits, but you also like wanna build like healthy habits to like sugar. So I feel like. Giving 'em the access to it in a controlled manner that isn't restraining it, only giving it to them in like certain moments and At the end of the day too, like if you truly can't control what your kid is eating, at least if they can hit the calorie intakes in a day, like at least you're like, alright, at least they got calories. was it like some of it coming from like a candy and a Popsicle? Sure. But you know what, at least they hit their calories for the day. And honestly at this point he's still eating. You know, ketchup is like, you know, it's, yeah. He got, he got tomato, he got some vitamin A in there, right? He got some vitamin C. And also from what I've heard at work, like fruit is where they get most of the minerals. So vegetables are just nice to haves, but not necessities it's like mostly for fiber. They get some minerals from vegetables, but mostly from their fruit. So I'm like, you know, he got his minerals for the day. He got some fiber, he got his rice carbs.

Sophia 1:05:06

Yeah. My rule is that I always do expose

Joyce 1:05:09

Yeah.

Sophia 1:05:10

and give him the option of other food. And sometimes, you know what? He would actually eat a whole cup of broccoli.

Joyce 1:05:15

Yeah.

Sophia 1:05:15

He would just for whatever reason,

Joyce 1:05:17

His body

Sophia 1:05:17

he

Joyce 1:05:17

just craving it for some reason. Yeah,

Sophia 1:05:20

And sometimes he would just eat the carrots. Sometimes he would eat the chicken

Joyce 1:05:23

yeah.

Sophia 1:05:24

meat, which before him, it's a hard thing. Like he doesn't really seem to like

Joyce 1:05:28

Meat. Yeah. TIG is not a big meat eater, and I'm kind of wondering if he's gonna grow up to be like a vegetarian because we give him meat and he'll take like a couple bites, but he'll eat it in the form of Plants. Like he'll eat it in tofu, he'll eat it in nut butters and stuff like that. But he won't eat like chicken or steak. No. And Ian. Yeah. Same thing with Ian. It's like we can always tell Ian's going through a gross spurt 'cause he'll all of a sudden for an entire week he'll eat every protein serving and then ask for doubles. And we're like, that's crazy. And then he won't eat meat for like another month and then all of a sudden he'll like eat. So it's like always interesting to see kids when they get random, craving, like random surges and you're like, what's your body telling you

Sophia 1:06:13

Yeah. your body does kind of know it seems Intuitively know what it needs.

Joyce 1:06:17

Yeah.

Sophia 1:06:18

so I just have to trust that with Tov too.

Joyce 1:06:21

Yeah,

Sophia 1:06:22

But also, it seems like everything is toxic. Like I just wanted the, apparently tea bags have microplastics,

Joyce 1:06:29

The tea bags itself. Yeah.

Sophia 1:06:31

at this point I just give up. I'm like, I'm just going to eat trust the Lord because everything, if you look deeply into it, like everything is poison.

Joyce 1:06:40

so I would love to know, 'cause like the, I've gone through the microplastics deep hole and. everyone shows like, oh, everything has microplastics, right? Like if it, if it has water, it had microplastics. like kind of deal and everything has microplastics and all that stuff. But they also show that your body excretes it. Yes. Our body still holds it 'cause it's micro, but like also it shows that our body excretes it. So like no one's done a study to actually study how much of the microplastics are being excreted out of the human body.

Sophia 1:07:10

Yeah.

Joyce 1:07:11

it's

Sophia 1:07:11

does it actually remain in a body and affect it, Yeah.

Joyce 1:07:14

So 'cause like people are like, oh yeah, we see microplastics in the brain and like in our body and yeah, it crosses the placenta, which is insane to think about. but like also if they did a study and they're like, oh, you know what, but your body actually excretes 90% of the microplastics, then I'm like. My body is doing a great job at getting rid of Yes, it's 10% and yes, we still have microplastics body, but if our body is like efficiently removing it and it's like getting rid of 90, 95% of the microplastics, then like game on, you know?

Sophia 1:07:46

I hope so, because if I look at what my kids ate, they ate poison rice apparently too. It has, arsenic,

Joyce 1:07:57

Yeah. Rice is high in arsenic.

Sophia 1:07:59

I mean, I wash them really well, but

Joyce 1:08:01

it has to be boiled out. They say you remove the arsenic if you actually, you know how people do, um, Bosma rice. When you cook bosma rice, you par boil it and then you dump the water out and then you reboil it again. I found out that's actually how you're supposed to remove the arsenic. But yeah, rice has arsenic, brown rice has more arsenic,

Sophia 1:08:21

yeah,

Joyce 1:08:21

it's only California grown. so a lot of people I know actually buy their rice from Korea, like actually direct import. 'cause Korean made rice.

Sophia 1:08:31

they're hell expensive.

Joyce 1:08:34

I know. I saw it I was like, isn't it like 40, like a tiny little bag? And I was like, hell no. It's

Sophia 1:08:39

would love to only buy pasture raised chicken and grass fed beef. But I'm looking at the price. I'm like, how do you justify spending so much? I, I can't. And I was telling my pediatrician, I was like, did you hear about the arsenic with the rice? Because she's Korean. she's like, yes. My, kids eat

Joyce 1:08:57

Yeah.

Sophia 1:08:58

we are Korean, we eat rice. like, if you wanna feed your children

Joyce 1:09:01

Yeah,

Sophia 1:09:01

just do it. so I feed my children rice, and I let them drink herbal tea out of a tea bag.

Joyce 1:09:09

Ian's very fancy and likes his steeped in a teapot, so I actually have to open it.

Sophia 1:09:14

the point of a teabag? Seriously? what is that? You know, the

Joyce 1:09:20

Oh yeah. He's a rati like he is.

Sophia 1:09:23

he's,

Joyce 1:09:24

Oh yeah. Goman Goman. He is like he wants. He loves a good tea. He loves a good tea party. he made me bake a cake today, so I had to make the chocolate like olive oil cake that I make and he's like so particular about the cakes and he's has such an elevated, refined palette that it makes my life

Sophia 1:09:41

having a grown for a

Joyce 1:09:42

special.

Sophia 1:09:43

having a son who only eat packaged things, even though he has a baker for a mother.

Joyce 1:09:48

They're both pretty awful. Well, I think we can end on this note and we just hope that everyone, um, had fun listening to us talk about and can relate about. The troubles and the difficulties of feeding your child, because at the end of the day, you can't shove anything in their mouth. Once they're past that six month mark and you're introducing even when they're six months and you're trying to spoonfeed them, they're like, Nope,

Sophia 1:10:15

breastfeeding, some kids just won't, take the poop, right? it

Joyce 1:10:18

yeah, dear.

Sophia 1:10:19

they

Joyce 1:10:20

Yeah.

Sophia 1:10:20

don't take a bottle. Like even with newborns.

Joyce 1:10:23

Mm-hmm. It's like the one thing they know from birth that they can control and make their mothers go crazy over.

Sophia 1:10:29

just to remind us of our limitations and how little we have control.

Joyce 1:10:35

Mm-hmm. Amen. Isn't that true? Uh, well, on that note, let me close us out. So let me pray. God, we. Thank you for your provision. We thank you that though we were separated from you from the garden Eden, that Lord, that you still gave us provision of food. He gave us common grace of all the animals and fruits and vegetables, and he gave us the gift of farming and everything that we have. And we thank you for that. And Lord, we also thank you for just the funny journey that we go on as a must on feeding our kids and just how you teach us humility through the practice of feeding our children. God, I just pray that if any of us are struggling through feeding our kids that Lord, that you'll lift any anxieties and stress, perhaps shame or guilt, that any Alma who's listening may be carrying and understanding that we are all trying our best, that they are trying their best and that Lord, um, that you have the ultimate provision over their children. Lord that you are going to be looking out for them. So I just pray that if there are anxieties that you would lift that for them and that the Alma would find encouragement not only through you but just us as well. Through Sophia and I just talking and knowing that they are not alone in food struggles. We thank you for the goodness, in what we can find in the food that we do. E Lord, in your name we pray. Amen.

Sophia 1:12:01

Amen.

1:12:06

Thank you so much for listening. If you've been liking our episodes, please follow, like, subscribe, or leave us a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and feedback. You can find us on Instagram at the old Oma Club, or reach out to us at the old Oma club@gmail.com. You gotta give it. Big thank you to Kevin Lar for our music. Until next time, amaz, may the Lord bless you and keep you sane, hydrated, and fulfilled the way only he can.