Woshē Williams Takatāpui Talk

Tonight on Takatāpui Talk we kōrero with Woshē Williams — a proud whakawāhine whose story is filled with honesty, humour, resilience, identity, and heart. 🌈

In this deeply personal conversation, Woshē speaks openly about becoming who she is, the relationships that shaped her along the way, and the strength it takes to live authentically in a world that does not always understand difference.

Together we explore identity, whānau, visibility, friendship, belonging, and the power of living in your truth.

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Real voices.
Our stories.

Thank you for listening to Takatāpui Talk with Donald Hollingsworth.

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Our conversations.
Our stories.
Our voices.

Arohanui.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Takatapui Talk. This is where we have important conversations, real stories, our voices. I'm Donald Hollingsworth, your host. Today's corridor is one that speaks deeply to Farno identity and the journey towards understanding. I'm sitting down with Woshi Williams, a proud Fakowahine whose story is not only about becoming who she is, but about the relationships that have shaped her along the way. In this episode, Wishi shares what it was like growing up with a strong faith-based upbringing, the expectations placed on her, and the path she has walked to live openly and truthfully. At the heart of this corridor is her relationship with her father, a journey that has moved through challenge, change, and ultimately love. We talk about chosen Fano, community, and the spaces where we find belonging, even when the path hasn't been easy. This is a story about transformation, acceptance, and the power of being truly seen by the people who matter most. So how are you really feeling today coming into this? And you're just yourself in your own wood.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

I am a big trans woman and I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

And I currently live in Kelly Kevin Ruan, your white cattle. And live here with my younger brother and a few besties, and I am a proud trans activist and community member.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I love that. So I know about your childhood, obviously, but our audience doesn't. So tell me about your childhood. What was the black growing up in your farmhouse?

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Growing up in my family. So right from a real camera member, I was born into a religious background. So obviously that was challenging with who I was inside. Overall, I had a wonderful childhood, an amazing mother, father. I had the upbringing that was amazing. I was supported well.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

School was good, home life was good. Had a young father to annoy and annoy me. And overall, I was really happy with the things that I did as a child and achieved as a child.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Everything that I always wanted to do, you know, my father would financially support, my mother would take me. So it was great, although just challenging the religious part. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

So tell us about the religious part that why was the Jehovah's Witness Jehovah's Witness? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

So obviously the public side have a long history of being Jehovah's Witnesses. And so, yes, it was very challenging for me, knowing who I was inside, but externally couldn't reflect that. Very challenging. It did cause some awkward moments. And not authentically being myself because I'm pretending to be someone that what they want to see me as, or traditionally or conservatively be an act in a certain way so that I was passable, I guess. No questions. I didn't want to rob the boat, and yes, I just had to be happy in my own bubble and toxic.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

So what was there one particular sermon? Is there a sermon? Or was there one particular, I mean that they have a Bible, and they have a watchtower? Was there anything that really we went, oh no, I I don't was there any particular I couldn't actually say particular because it was a no from all directions, really.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

It wasn't I couldn't say it was one particular literature or book or person. Unfortunately. All roads led to a big fat. No, yes. And that that was very challenging for myself. So but yes. No, they made it clear from all directions that um who I was and what I was doing.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

No, no, no, yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

And what did that look like for you as a young person, you know, when you were internally, your head is just spinning out of control. I mean, you know who you are deep down inside. You know who you are, you know. And I think you know, I was always born this way because I've never thought, acted, or done anything else other than being mean, other than turning on back front at the right time to make sure that you know I keep everyone happy, or don't want to look out of line, don't want to embarrass my family, my father, my mother.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

So yeah. Did it ever come up as a child? From your parents?

SPEAKER_03 5:23

No, I mean this it wasn't a dress from my parents until later on in my life. Um I guess parents, or more so my father, you know, it sort of pry on the hope that it could be a phase or uh a moment. Or every boy wears a dress at some stage or puts on a makeup or has a hair tie in there here. So I guess that they were just finding time to sort of see if it was that. Yes. Unfortunately it wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

It wasn't. Um I don't know anyone went with a phase.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

No, I guess, you know, it would have been new to them from the generation they grew up in, and so it handled with caution. But yeah. It's in a quite kind of commandual, you know. Um, so I just watched. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

And do you think they looked at their religion for help or guidance? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Like I mean, they had certain literatures and books there that, you know, they'd go over and I could feel that points of emphasis. You know, me and my brother are sitting there, and it's you can tell it's different for me. I understood why. Was that difficult though? It was, that's really difficult. Yeah, it's like an internal wall. You understand what they're saying and you get it, and it makes sense, and naturally it makes sense, you know. I get that. Yeah, but inside my body and my mind and my whole wider and so like, no, you are who you are. Yeah, yeah. And I can't help that, I can't change that. No.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

So you just follow their leading real link to everybody happy.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Yes, yeah, yeah, it is. And you know, my parents were good to me. I didn't want to feel like a failure. I didn't want to upset them, you know, at that point, especially in my baby to early childhood, you know. I had things good, so I didn't want to rock the boat. So I guess unfortunately it is what it is what it was. Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

So when did you start feeling like you were when was the first stuff when you understood that you're yourself? And what sort of age you were like?

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Oh, I would have been. Well, I would have been like 12, 13, around that age, it's sort of like you're at that I'm at that stage now where I'm like, no, I don't know who I am. There's no second there's no second doubt that I know exactly who I am, what I am. And I'm just at a stage now where I've got to figure out how do I get there. Yeah. How do I get to that? How do I get to a safe space with my parents and my family? We all do. Run away.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Run away.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

Yeah. Unfortunately at that age you just can't run away. No. Yeah, because we're 12. I don't have a guy to my name. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

And was there any if was there a woman that you were like inspired by? I mean, I had lots of you know movie stars that I loved at that time. You know, I was watching lots of black and white movies.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

Oh, if I think if I think of that age, yeah. Other than my mother, who actually no, it would have been my mother. My mother would have been number one, you know. Um internally, I would watch and adore my mother. I want it on my head right now. I should have been bought my friends. I could have got it from my mother. And my mother, right from watching you do makeup to just her whole maternal natural mannerisms, everything. Like I knew that that's who I am. Like I'm exactly like my mother. I'm not like my father.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

No.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

I have my my father's traits and some of his looks, but I know that my mother is who I wanted to be like. Well, who I was. Actually, who I was, you know. And I just wish I had got everything, right from those body parts to everything. And then of course, everything else came, and my other inspirations would definitely be Ramolyn Monroe and Pamela Hanson, and Carmen Electra. You know, I could see the others because at that age, Record would have not been allowed about TV. Yeah, you know, so you know. So I would have to catch it, you know, in other places or other people's houses, or you know, so no, growing up in a religious background, you wouldn't we wouldn't typically have those sort of TV programs on TV. I never looked at that, I didn't do that. So what were you allowed to watch? Basically anything that wasn't containing Trend, homosexuality, sex or extreme violence.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Yeah. Um and did did John Marman force this?

SPEAKER_03 10:16

So No, and I I just think that that's that called from the religious it wasn't about what my dad thought. It was sort of like we're going to have a household, a clean household with, you know, clean maturity entertainment with it. Yeah, that wasn't yeah, that it was one thing. It was a across the board, like, you know, for all the naughty, sinful movies you could watch.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

But I mean is people are she's is she's P is she's PG or you know, yeah, that's really interesting because it's so important to Australia tonight. You know, I mean I when I when I was growing up in the 70s, I had Diamond Lill, I had uh other kind of English uh performers, and they had their comedy shows. And my father loved that sort of stuff, so I was always allowed to watch that, but they were such inspiration to me. Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. I never looked at it like that. And this is where people need to understand what it would be like for someone growing up in a very household. Yes, yeah you know, yeah, where things you were you were how do you put it, you were not entertained, you were you were you were stopped from yeah, you just weren't loud.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

It was obvious the entertainment was there that was great, but it was filtered. And unfortunately, the part of it that was a part of me could not be watched or down inside the house.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah. And so what do you what's the synopsis of being a Jehovah's Witness? You know, you don't think you expected to be?

SPEAKER_03 11:56

I think let's get this wording right. I don't want to intend anybody, but yeah, just a clean, wholesome person that's a follower of Christ. And basically, if you know, in biblical terms, if Jesus Christ didn't do it, you're not gonna do it, you know, basically. And that would include basically yourself, myself, you know, so yeah, they are Christians and followers of Christ. So, you know, if the Bible says don't do it, you don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

I'm not gonna keep going on about it. That's just a really interesting part of your life, and it's interesting discussing, you know, your struggle with yourself, yeah, and what you're being taught, who you're told to be, and what you're told to through a witness. Um, absolutely. Yeah, you're moved on. Yeah. So when did you start? Sorry, what did that journey look like for you internally and externally when you first started to understand who you were?

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Internally, when that journey started, if I'm talking about the start of that journey, um, obviously, like every other trans or gay or community person, you ran away to find yourself.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Where did you run up? So where were you sorry, you're in the start? No, where were you growing? Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_03 13:13

So I grew up in Pungston. And where did you run away too? So my first stop was Pedicky Lord, Hamilton White Cutle. She's still there. Yeah. And I actually had another young childhood friend, Tivy. And we both knew our whole entire lives growing up there that we were different. Absolutely. Yeah. We were completely different. We were never made for that city. How old were you when you made it to be? Oh, primary. Primary. Primary. Yeah. Wow. We would have been fine with Mrs. Anderson's classroom.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Oh, I'm so sorry, She. I I didn't forget about her. I really didn't, but I sort of did. I I forgot how so you were lucky, were you?

SPEAKER_03 14:00

I I was lucky enough in that whole white city that I actually had a friend that was like me. Of course. So we did it. I think we got to those those years we were like, okay, we can work now, we've got money and we can go. And so we just took off and once once we listened there and we were able to just do be where we were. Internally, speaking of internally, things were changing. Blankets were lifting, happiness was seeping in, authenticity was was creeping in. And you could just feel those changes, and internally it was just great. It's so how did you kick over to you?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

We both went together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Yeah. I didn't know this part. We did the bang sisters. We did the rung off. Yeah. So yeah, internally I was just a lot more free. And I had freedom, and I didn't have to watch my pigs, my cues, my bank, you know, and all that sort of stuff anymore. So those changes started happening, and I got to that point where, you know, I moved away, I found my people, I found a sister.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

And it was really, really exciting. So the happiness and the floridity of everything just started happening for me, and I was so happy. And then the transition to the exterior has like, no one's around anymore. I mean, dad's not around, no one's heads enough for me, no family. And you know, we can start going, going for it. We can grow our game, we can remember, we can change the clothes.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

But even at that time, this is my understanding of you. You were, you were, as I watched, we were taught how to work, we know how to get a job, we know how to work really hard to make our money so that we can survive. And those there's the values that our parents really instilled in us. And I know that halfway and your mummy made instilled.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

And they didn't tell you how to do that, you just watched them do it. Because your parents would work very hard. So you had great jobs. And what I mean that's what about you was that you you you you worked, but you weren't transitioning at work, were you?

SPEAKER_03 16:07

No. And and the reason for that being is that the reason why the transition at work couldn't come is because I had to face my parents first. So once once my mother was it was my mum that initiated it. She contacted me and she says, Oh, enough is enough. We haven't taken a drop to see you. And I did and she did, and she she got to a restaurant, she got to dinner, we sat down, my family's there, and she just went straight out with the first question. It wasn't she didn't even dress it up, she just addressed the point straight away. And as soon as my mother asked me, she burst into tears. Angry. Yeah. Wow. Just burst into tears and um without even replying, basically, you know, the chips, the strip, the white people left it off my shoulders. It was like I already thought that I was great, you know, just by moving away. But when Margaret said it's true and my father's in the room, oh gosh, what did California say? Um I can't actually remember because all the meeting, but in that situation, Dan's always always been that typical man of few words, you know, especially on you know co-papa topics like that. Um but he was there to heat, he has there and witnessed it. Um and I think it was just good for them to know the know me to know the no, and yeah. So um I think upon having that discussion and right, everything's in the open now. We're 100% I could then go for gold. I didn't last much longer at my job then much at work and income. Um, and then obviously I made the transition to IAD.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Can you can you talk about that? Because I know that Virgil, and I I I remember for you, it was um you were literally being called up about it. Yes, um it's a different time.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

It was, it was, it was the very early 2000s. I was just not long out of high school, and I had worked at Studylink, and then obviously went to work and income.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

And you were really working income. You were asked manager when you and you really ripped into that job.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

That's right, because I was for the people. Yeah. And also taking up that job allowed me to see my community members that were finding it hard, dealing with racist, sexual, anti sort of people. And I used to love picking up those kinds. You know how young Takata we are, down the trans things, those sort of caseloads. I loved taking care of those. But yes, in regards to working there, it was really hard because it was at a time where, you know, there hadn't been trans movement or publicity, or except this was still on the rise then when I first started there. So, you know, having long hair or you know, wearing anything too feminine or earrings or makeup was like no, I wasn't allowed.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

No, their code of conduct, the dress code very stipulated it, and it was very mentioned woman. And if you weren't a woman, you could not. Yeah. It was very, very strict when I was there. And when you go into HR, was that? Yes, yeah, I know I ended up in HR many times. How'd you get through that? What did you say to them? Oh yeah, you know what it's like, Uncle, but you know, for our sucker type of channel, you know what? When you can face the adversity of the world and the cruel cage that they put you in, you can face anything, including work and income in the government.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Did you shut down?

SPEAKER_03 19:49

When they no, I keep going. No, no, I thought and that's what we do. Yeah. We're we've been raised to fight and survive, and that's what we do. It doesn't matter whether it's on the street or in the government officers looking at them. You're gonna fight for your right. And if you're not wrong about something, you're not gonna back down. We don't back down.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

So besides um, you know, for you, you know, just wearing more sort of your touches when you're worth hearing to make up, were they seeing anything else? Like what you know, what's their social media? Was there social media then? No, not really.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

You know, Facebook worked in about 2005. I was right. You know, it was I was I hadn't been at working two years after the first of it. So, like, you know, you couldn't put Facebook on your cell phone. So like, you know, and cameras would three mega pixel. But no, I didn't really have that.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

It was just literally the changes that you were making, your stuff will change yourself, so that you could feel comfortable within your skin.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

Yes, that's what I was trying to do. And and that's what you want to do, is express yourself. Yeah. You know, I've got full rain now. I don't have to answer or hide from my family, so I don't want to express myself and how I really am. And yeah, they had a big problem with it. So And what were your parents saying? Were they just is this from conversations? Like how how um I would inform them that you know things aren't right at work, but I never went into full detail. Yeah, you know, I was happy to fight that fire of my own. I wasn't didn't really need to burn anybody else with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

But what drove them to come and see you and out you as such, you know, to your face.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Yeah, and you know what? It's great that they did. Yeah, I think my mom could like all mothers, they could internally and they have an x-ray vision for for feelings and emotions, and my mom could just see the despair and just depression and everything. As much as I was sort of kind of living my best life, mothers think they can see right through you, you know, you can't trick them. And my mother definitely could. And you know, my mum actually expressed and it she said, you know, given the world and and everything, she sang, you know, chance and tapa tap where, you know, commit suicide. Due to depression or no family acceptance or mum, she's a nervous. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah, she already knows about Monarchy and yes, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

And I don't and I think just and from a mother's perspective, she was just concerned that you know she didn't want her child to do anything, you know, like that. Suicide or just going around being depressed. Yeah. Mom did too much that she just pulled pulled the reins and this is it.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

This is it. Yeah, yeah. There's always that question, you know, we just want you to be happy. And I'm like, I am. Yeah. Because I'm now I'm out on myself. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

That's what Mum said. I just want you to be happy. And given, and you're like, but I am young.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yeah. Yeah, but you would have been so caught up in your emotions, definitely the time. And I I mean, I understanding my cousin Tafai, he would have been shut down and sort of, you know, it would have been dark for him at the time sitting at the table. That's probably why you don't remember him saying much, because he probably didn't.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah, no, I don't.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Yeah. But how is your relationship look like with him now?

SPEAKER_03 23:11

The relationship with my father, well, from childhood till now, is 360. Wow. I'm gonna say 360. It has been a a rough ride. Of course. A rough ride. Like it is a thing father in that situation. Or ghost. But yeah, my relationship with my dad these days is good. I really love it. We can talk without pretending, we can exchange messages. And you know what? I hear from him more regularly. Wow. Messages, love you, me love you, love means. And I call to your father because he loves you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

And just addressing me correctly, everything, you know. So and I know for my dad, who's you know, very staunch, traditional, conservative, and he's come from a generation where it's you know, my way or the highway, that's a huge 360 for her.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Huge. Are they still are they still practicing? Are they still got this?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Yeah, yeah. You know, with them still practicing. Yeah, they still have they can still separate that and respect me, love me, spend time with me, do everything with me, you know, without continuing to impose that because for years dad was relentless, you know. Even with with the coming out saga, dad was still relentless and I still share his thoughts and everything. And so that that was a rough patch, you know, that was rough in this. Dad was like, yes, okay, I get ya. But yeah, yeah, the butt was there for a while. But this is what the Bible says, this is what you know God says. So that that happened for quite some time, and he was he had his red, he had really, really good moments, and then we have like a really bad moment about that topic, and then a really good night, man. So it was a bit of a round coaster. But I think the older dad's got he'd come around and just we just learned not to talk about that, you know, and it's just wholeheartedly accepting.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

All that doesn't concern them. Yeah. It doesn't concern them. What concerns is what you've done with each other at the time.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. And watch this break, you know, and that's opened the door up for me to feel more welcome at home, go home, family holidays, you know, things. Because we can do all that stuff, and I can be me without, you know? And we've done heaps since then. Even just me and dad, too. Just me and dad doing things. Yeah, it's great. I loved it. Were they doing dad moments when you were when you were growing up? There were, there were heaps. Dad had heaps of those moments with us. Except they were more in the channel of what dad, yeah. You know, in the sponge. Right. It was sparch. Like raspberry he always. You know, and and I've always said that, you know, my dad believes in in one sport and one ball, and that's the oval ball side. And if it's not touch, if it's not legal, if it's not rugbying, he's out, you know. I grew up, and if it wasn't a kid's movie and he's giving us our time, all I can remember is late night rugby, league or touching, and that that's all I remember watching. Wow. And that's why I still watch, even though I'm not really into it, I still watch the Sale of Origin because I've grown up, that was everything. That was late nights, all the snacks, you know, up for that. That was like probably the one time that you know, as a child, it's like, oh I think I've been with you and watched the Rugby World Cup with him.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

You know, for the weekends like and I would never do that. Because it's also it's an atmosphere that you create with the watching, and you know, and do I like rugby?

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Not particularly, but the nostalgic feeling an atmosphere that I have with my father and and my family and growing up. It's still there. And I if you like drinking, well, rugby's in too. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm before I think you still can't drink it, or smoke it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

So you attend so much of sports at events. Uh can you tell us about that, Judy? Or you took too long just now. Yes, um, we've really covered it. I love how you've set way into everything, really, because I was about to say, what do those spaces mean to you now? Yeah, what do they mean to you now? As you said, you know.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Those spaces are so nostalgic, even though I particularly don't share common interests with that or sport and things like that. Um they're nostalgic. And yeah, I love it. I love it. But even though my dad liked those typical buttons, I will definitely give credit to my father, even though I don't I don't think he particularly liked it, but he was really, really good. I love gymnastics. Right. And as as long as I can remember, that's what I wanted to be. You know, Dad had the Olympics on TV. I saw gymnastics, I fell in love, and I thought, um, I'm gonna be I'm gonna go to the Olympics when I grow up at 16 years old, you know, and so he would take you to gymnastics classes. And I don't remember him particularly liking it or sitting there enjoying it, but at the end of the day, he took me to what I loved, and that's exactly what I loved. Especially gymnastics for a hand. Yeah, wait, he'll do his workout and then wait for it to finish, and yeah. And you know, I controlly both it, but we love even though we I didn't like the the weights or the gym, but you know, I was really good. And Dad continuously still talked me to things I loved. You don't have a big participation, and I never expected him to not gonna do that. Uh I didn't extra gymnastics run up till grade two. Um went to, you know, regional clubs I remember you know you know's the one to come the video camera for all that usually. My dead sometimes, but yeah. And also I was introduced to into network. Network. Network. Yeah, remember you're a traditional? I remember I had just turned 13. Okay, that's early. Or even younger, I remember going to Cricket Wicked watching my mom play. I was like, oh I I want to do that. She really looks pretty, you know. And you know, this is all while my brother's playing rugby touch, and you know, I'd go along watching this, and I was like, oh my god. I finally saw her, I thought feminine.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, I I want to do that.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

I was formed to 34 my mum and my mum's sister, my auntie Catherine, meeting an indoor network team, and I got to join and I was so excited. You can still mix up the indoor network team. Yes, yeah, yeah, mainly the mainly mixed.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

But you can still feel feminine.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

You don't know what glove I'm wearing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I did, and I fell in love, and I competitively played from such that young age, obviously representing the region and area, obviously going to nationals, and from such a young age, I would have been 16, 17, and you know, I was in the under. And what that did for me, and I'd like to highlight, is that playing that sport, I was able to meet more people like me at my age. And so obviously Chucky was with me all, and you know, and I met you know everyone else and then met WeTiddy, Tyrone, and you know, the names of people that you think of today, I could keep going on and on. I mean things have been playing. Michelle, yes, yeah. And so not only did I have sisterhood, I had a chosen family, and just everything grew from there. So network was a stronghold. And I still play till these days, even though my body can do handle it. I still play till these days because of what that significantly means. Yeah, the rescue it gave me and uh and I think you're good at supporting because your father brought you up sports. Oh my god. Yeah, definitely, yeah. All right, all my existence comes from my father.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

All of it comes from dad who is really encouraged, yeah. But you found what you fit with, yeah, yeah. And love and adorn, you're still doing it today, you know. Yeah, and yeah, no, dad encourages sport. He encourages physical fitness and physical health in general that through him, and you know, you would have been fighting that when you leave home and absolutely, but then you fit it back into it so readily and so easily.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah, I love it. And so, yeah, net all has been a saviour and a guidance for me. And as much as I can't be bothered, I still play it because of what that significantly means. Not so much that I love, love this sport these days and being worn out for yeah, for the people that have still surrounded me in the sport today and support me, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Because you've just recently won a full. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

Uh yes, this means we have just had that competition east the weekend. And if I'm still grateful to be playing with the same sisterhood, well, a good core of them anyway. So this day and during that time was them.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

So yes, as long as they had the goal.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

And do you have an opinion about sports, you know, or changing sports or it is such a tough one.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Yeah. It is such a tough one. I'll speak for myself. Yeah, yeah, sure. And yeah, I'll actually my opinion is that growing up and watching I was gonna say my older trans aunties and trans sisters play. And you know, that was a time where you'd never see a trans woman in women's sport ever.

SPEAKER_04 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Never, ever, ever, you know, that'll be the biggest no-no in in history. I don't know, I know it's changed today. And, you know, we've had trans women, you know, help build and found us of men's netboards. And unfortunately, that was the only space that they could play netboards for their life, yeah. And away from you know, that discrimination justice. They just wanted to play networks. They just want to play netboard, you know. And unfortunately, you can't create a woman's one. So it was a men's one at the time. And I I haven't followed suit. And I don't believe that you know, playing in a men's competition defines who I am. No, you know, I'm sort of I am sort of a transformative woman, and unfortunately, I play in a men's league in order to fulfill the passion of the sport that I like. You're somewhat like myself though, when you play.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

You don't downplay anything, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

And and you get those questions too, also from the younger generation. Oh, you know, you're not playing women, so you don't play Saturday morning or print something. And I guess that I still sit in that space to just honour the woman before me, you know. It is about, you know, they've gone through and and they've part they've created stepping stones and pathways for me. And I just believe continuing to plug in there to the day I dive just means I'm gonna honour those that come before me because without them, I would have never had that opportunity. Probably would have still been sitting watching rugby with them, my brother, you know? We didn't have those amazing transforms before us.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Yeah. That would have been the mansion when you first saw them.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

And while I was always like, oh wow, and and and you know, the like all the straw rights and the skill level, but not just the skill. My dear, can we talk about the fear? Something that I just don't see in the younger generation. Okay. Oh, yes, it's definitely uh a dying thing, and the fear of it was just amazing. They made you want to play, whether you wanted to play or not. Yeah, that's how inspiring they were.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Um, I um can I just say I love the uniforms you created for this team that you're in? Oh my god. That's like I don't think that ever seen so much pink.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

You know, the the uniform is I represent it so uh if I'm wears the uniform, yeah. Everyone is the uniform, plus I always have to have more pink accessory. Yeah, the uh the uniform, regardless, uh it wasn't always pink, by the way. No, I thought it wasn't always pink. Um, and I was definitely not having before the pink. And um I think with the pink coming in, it just given that nickel five has been home to so many translators and tuck a topway in the rainbow finding junior old, it the pink just telling the cuts have to express themselves. Didn't you just follow what's the cover?

unknown 36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

Oh no, you weren't um Michelle has always been very, very clear. Yeah. And she came up with a fabulous uniform and the white table pink uniform. Incorporating, you know, Molly Pacific design. Oh, it was just so fabulous. The uniform green does represent me and people like me with the idea. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

No, I know that all the questions I wanted to ask you about that you just think while we've continued on, but that's exactly everything that I wanted to ask you. And I I love how important it was to you quite inspiring to people to and everyone when you're all computer and you're all being very competitive. And we could be competitive on each other, can't we? Yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, probably more so yeah, yeah, that queen's not being me. Yeah, I love that. So let's talk about how do you care for yourself then? You know how does how does care look for you today? Anything personal, what makes you you know, if I already look care and only look after yourself?

SPEAKER_03 37:26

How I look after myself, I I am typically an extrovert. Yes. So mentally I rely on the social settings and family settings, gatherings, and you know that's why I was such a big drinker. That recharges my battery. Yeah, yeah, that recharges my battery. Mentally, I look after it by consistently being surrounded by family and my sisterhood. Yeah. They are what kept me sane, and they're what kept me, they can also drive me insane. But typically, typically I quit talking about for the better of the good idea. Yeah, my sisterhood has been a big part of my life, and I can't I'm not interviewed enough to go day without seeing one or having gone around. I've been privileged to also have young ones look up to me, so I have two daughters. Yes, and I have found it in my heart to that to to love them and treat them as my own, and it's they simply got I learned when they're not driving me and say, Rejoice, make my heart happy. I've got someone to care for, someone to love, and you know, someone to look help for someone to mentor, and that's been a really big part of my life. And yeah, it has just kept me dying at times, you know, and we can get a bit boring or dumb or big thing. Or dark. Oh dark, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so I've been quite quite privileged to have that as well. Um they are a privilege, even though they're gonna be a pain in the house. How old are they paying? Well, at the end of the day, you've got to remember they are young. That's the pain right there. Youth. You know, when when there's such that huge age get, you know, and you have to consistently remind yourself, you know. Hey, when that was you in your 20s, early 20s, teens, you know. Other than that, no, I love love teaching everyone of them.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Do you think you know when you talk about daughter, your daughters and being a lot younger? Do you think their lives like social media is is you know, a lot of it's so much bigger than the problems that we had. I mean, I if I think about going out for lifetime when I was in my twenties, we didn't have fun. So, you know, none of that was the focus. You know, and the opinions that can come from social media. Yeah, you know, no matter what. I think I think are these the impressions?

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Yeah, I would say there's been discrepancies due to social media. Um everything else that they do is nothing more, nothing or less than what we do as kids. So no, they're genuinely good kids and talented. I've been very blessed to have talented ones. And I really enjoy that their talents and forte aren't in network. You know, I actually really enjoy that. I'm very blessed that most of them come and support me in network, and they're like, yes, mother, you do your thing, do your thing. And then I really enjoy supporting them in their forte and their burly work, and they're amazing dancers, amazing drinkers, amazing dancers. So or I have been so blessed with them in my life. Not only have I got to teach them things, they've got to teach me things. So they've been an opportunity of learning as well. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Tell us about the boring culture.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Boring culture? Could you get a ball? Yes, yeah, no, we we did host a ball. Drinking with my sisters and then drinking with my daughters so different. And you know, every time we drank, they'd always have it would be a TV, it would be a buzz, it would be a vibe. And it wasn't a night of drinking or going to town unless you're Vogue, you know, you know. Yeah, it's performance time, yeah. And and for years, and I I I was just so adoring them for it. Like it was amazing, and I really could see what boring did for them and Vogue did for them. I just see them authentically living, and that's what I loved about it. They're authentically living, I can see they were happy and they just wanted to do it all the time as much as they could. And and given you know what boring is like with so many different categories. I just think each and every one of them had had their foretame of doing each of those, and it was so good to see. We attended uh in Auckland. Basically, Auckland is basically if you want boring, yeah. I think in the early 2000s. And I remember some of my sisters in Auckland and they used to tell me about it, and and they had youths up there that uh the founding mothers of Auckland Boring C today, and I admire them. They've done an amazing job to bring it to our telo, and it's growing, and it's provided a real safe space for our youth. And has and they've done an amazing job, I had four than the hundred. And I've fallen to the point where that's also created a space for the daughters that I have today. And they they love going when they can. You know, if they're not working, they're there.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Because I imagine, you know, people that are listening or or or watching is that they might not know about the culture, and it's a culture that has existed for a long time. So it started in New York City, really, didn't it? But I wouldn't say the movie called Paris. But the process is always the same. You have judges. How many judges?

SPEAKER_03 42:54

I think that very. I think a minimum of five. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

And then challenge, and then you have a host or a you have NCAA. Yeah. And they give you points of up to ten. Don't with scorecards.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

Yes, these things they more just give tens. It's either a chop or a 10. I can't really think anything in between as of like with the new generation. They either hold up, they either hold up 10 or unfortunately. Yeah, unfortunately a chop, yes. I never knew that. Yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

And you know, the MC is it's hard. It's it's it's hard work. It's hard. It's really fast.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

It was so quite watching all the the bogus and the juntos and some of the MCs in the chances, uh you know, they so amazing at what they do. Sometimes I forget to watch who's walking and I'm too busy getting him on the MC. Do you know what they say to and the amount of breath that you need to do that as well? It is it's poetry emotions.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

And it's it's a whole skill set and all of its own.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

And so I always think if you want to go voting, you can and go looking for it. You know, if you ever want it to try. What's some of the categories?

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Do you remember categories? I've got a lot over the years that I had attended, I've seen so many different worlds. But obviously the main one, they always have a beginner's or virgin vote. They usually have anything from just hair performance, face, runway, cat walk, you know, runway, face, body, fix firing, and obviously different style of category of vote with the vote.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Love that works very well for you because canvas. Yeah. And that is the outfit as important as it was in the, you know, when we watched. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

And I mean, you you say some of the people walk up the boardroom and you can just tell that they've put so much time in here, but you can tell that their outfit was either really expensive or they spent a lot of time at the phone machine.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Yeah. Yeah. And that's how creative web wire.

unknown 45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Yeah. No, they have especially when they have runway categories for certain looks or fashions. Well, even the bizarre category. So it looks like a bizarre category. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I I've seen stuff that almost tooth tied to oh my god, how did you make that? How many walking in it? Yeah. Like, yeah. Um amazing. Absolutely. Just colored it and create a start. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

And and how big are the audiences? Like when you did your when you did your ball for American Hamilton, TDT Goran Hamilton, what how many people did you did attend? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_03 45:48

I think we may have had maybe just shy of 200. And you know, we we thought that was amazing. So I I won't tell you I've been through that ball. I suppose in a thank you and and an attributing to Auckland Boring thing because they put boring on so much for everyone in New Zealand. And you know, during the balls when we had how hard it was. We actually appreciated the amount of work that the Auckland Boring thing had done, and we just thought, you know, as Plenty or White had thought, you know, it would be nice for us to do one and they can have a break or get out of town. And you know what? Because when we did the support of Auckland Boring thing, they all came.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Well, I wouldn't put my hand up to spend the money really. Remember, I ran you and I was like, I want to give some money. And I was like, how much do you want? I'm telling when I was up, I can give a couple hundred dollars. But I was thinking to myself, they will come if you're giving them money for prizes. Yeah, they don't want pack and state vouchers. No, no, we don't do packing. No, you need you need cash. And you are thinking has lifted our first month, you know. I mean, it wasn't like that. But I was like, I was so happy to be able to make it different. A little bit of difference that way. And I know they one of the some of them would have come because they were given cash.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Yeah, because for some for the people that are part of borough, you know, yeah. Cold high cash survival. Yeah, you know, and upstream, you know, some of them need that money.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

For their own lines, you know, and and that's another that's another story. That's another thing. So to be able to come and perform and vote game, you know, and and win some money for it. Because I remember the photos that I saw and the incredible deal that came tools.

SPEAKER_03 47:53

Yeah, yeah, we were very blessed. They turned out there we had some Auckland Borg and scene past the locals. And the locals that came really enjoyed it. They loved it in the simple fact that with one being in Hamilton, they were able to experience one. You know, because normally like some of the locals I've talked to, you know, they go, Oh, we know it happens in Auckland, but we're we're not too sure about where or how or a bit scared. One of the things scary, then take me.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

All you need is that industrial staff. Yeah, I think that's like that for anyone that is at the top. Yeah, I remember you know, the first time I went to a gay club when I was like 17, you know. Yes, it wasn't legal when I still think I was very tall. And I'm so nervous. Well, when you're in there in the music and you you see other people like you, it's just it's everything, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I think would have been like. So I mean that then that kind of moves you into that whole performance side of it. What about so I want to talk about something that involves you and I, because I had obviously heard about you. You're a teenage girl. And you know, I was living in Sydney and I came overstage, and one of our very dear matriarchs had passed, Auntie Church, and we're at her tungee up north, up home, and at the Urukawa was Takatona, which is behind Morton Town. And your Auntie Bina, who I was I grew up with, I was always very close with this. I was lovely to see she was sitting in her van, and she looked at him and she goes, have you seen her? Have you spent another? No, I said, Did you get that? You know, have you and you know, you're have you met Worship, you know, have you seen her did you get that about have you met your Uncle Donald?

SPEAKER_03 49:43

You know, if it wasn't you're gonna be like Uncle Donald. It was have you met Uncle Donald? I think you should make yeah, I did get that a lot growing up. And so, yeah, that that total moment that you're talking about. I was so happy to meet you for the simple fact that that should shut the family up, asking that question ever again.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

On my side, I've got 65 first cousins. You know, so that's a big family. They're a big fan of them. They all knew about me too, you know. So and the Fatello fan though where you come from, my auntie G, Fatal, you know, that that's huge. So what's that? Yeah, you know, and that's it, isn't it? Instead of trying to be sort of come together, and that was the closed. I have 65 out of my gun, I got half of what you've got.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Oh, you know how many people are not gonna be off three of them. I think yeah, around around that. Yeah. I haven't had a cow in a while. No, yeah. Because I stopped chatting because Kazel's bad at heavenly kids, so I was like, oh, well, we've got a counting task because we've got the new ones here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

And so I remember a pivotal moment where you were invited to a wedding and you were allowed, you were encouraged to come with yourself.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

Yes. What was that like? That was that was good, yeah. I spoke to us respectfully, not simply what I would wear to the nightclub. I wouldn't wear that. But uh I'm gonna go to my cousin device and his beautiful wife now. They invited. And I I reached out because you know, wait, things coming out and and and transition, you know, I was just like, oh, well, what do I wear? You know, I would be to a formal occasion. And I reached out and both of those. And I was just like, oh my goodness, you know. So we had to keep it respective because I realised, you know, to vibes this family, some of them are Jehovah's Witnesses. So, you know, like tone it down. It's not where your best night have or your best road went up. But yeah, no, it was and it was just focused to hear things like that, you know. Uh to be accepted and liked wholeheartedly. That they they would want you at their formal last big moment and whatever you're comfortable wearing. Yeah. So that was that was that was really, really nice.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Were you nervous around them?

SPEAKER_03 52:08

No, I wasn't nervous because I had their birthday. So it didn't matter what anybody else said talks. As long as my cousin and his and his wife, it's their wedding. As long as they're happy with what I'm wearing, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. What did you wear? I think I'm wearing high-waisted pants and I had a big fur coat on, a big fur pants on. I had a basic makeup here up in a bun, you know, that sort of thing. Nothing, nothing extreme.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Yeah. Lashes, earrings.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Lashes, earrings, everybody, yeah. But yes. I think sexy. You know, our swings and we always want to go, we're not going. We want we always want to be teen. Yeah, yeah. And no, we don't we're not really so fine at 567. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

You do grow 5'6 button.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

I give it respectfully, yeah. You know, I do respectfully. You know, you still want to steal the show. No, you don't know what. That's what we normally do on the television. You know, in this particular situation, I just wanted to blend in and celebrate their day, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

And did they get married in a uh Kingdom Hall?

SPEAKER_03 53:15

No, they um got married outside in a beautiful garden, you know. They did they did that whole thing. It was stunning, you know. And then we had that, and then we had um obviously reception, the function, and and everything in a private hall here. Yeah. And it was a beautiful wedding, my love. I entirely enjoyed my time. Yes. I didn't even drink uncontrollably like I did, yeah. Just the same of the moment.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

And there was another wedding that I know about. And um a lot of your uncles were here. These are your father's brothers.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

Oh, which whose wedding is that?

SPEAKER_02 53:51

Zoe's weeding.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Zoe's weeding. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Um yes, um, by the time I were definitely encouraged to go to themselves.

SPEAKER_03 54:00

Um, Zoe was amazing. Um I never reached out to Zoe. Because you know, I just I always raised to be respectful of the generation where if you didn't listen, it's definitely what did you get? So I reached out and I just checked with Zoe about what I did with. And she was amazing. She told amazing. They were so respectful to me. And I did, like, and that was where like I hate them all tutoresses there.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Yeah, no, you tell me.

SPEAKER_03 54:31

I get one, I get one for the sterile and one for the respect. Now I've been pretty. Zoe was a little bit different than the fact that I had grown up with her and she knows me very well, too. Well, um, I'm very clear. She is, yeah. Yeah. I spent a lot of time on touring my sister growing up, so and I'm so fabulous. They know I didn't have to come up to them. I was basically already they already knew, very near it, yeah. So I get great, yeah. And that was that was high girls' interests that were fabulous. And yeah, I I didn't have a long family there. And the family's just so fabulous. So fabulous. I'm really blessed to have a family that's just accepting and loving. And yeah, I do have my dad's uh scary brothers there, you know. Not scary, but you know, they they I'm absolutely blessed to be loved by them and they they will sleep me well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

I don't I don't think David, Uncle Dave, Uncle Uncle Hati, Fatalari, Torich Power, he's not scary. He looks at it. Because he's the darkest of the far night. Yeah. But he doesn't say scary things. No, no, he's not a nightmare. No, no, no. He's what did he say to you?

SPEAKER_03 55:43

You know, do you know what? Right from a kid, when it comes to Uncle Dave, regardless of how I acted, I was girly and this and that, he never said anything. He never said anything to me and sort of don't do this, don't act like that, I'm embarrassed. He was always embracing and always loving from the times that I would stay in his house, whether it'd be a weekend or school holidays, or anything, he never said anything but to but encouragement to be me. And you know, him and him and Auntie Christine, they know. They hear it. You know, my hunger days coming out from work, he's a builder, he's a long hard day, very butched job. He's having hope, and I'm sitting here and I'm doing his daughter's hair, curling hair, straight hair, and doing all these things and curly things and making up dance routines. He's been fabulous to me.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Well, I've gotta say that I've I might have taken the eat off for you because you know, I brought up for myself. Yeah. And I was, you know, doing his sisters' daughters here, you know, the tasty anti thing that's just those of me, but I know that it was so I think they kind of they might have gotten used to us. I just myself that. But I thought that by reactive people to work. We're in the same year. Did I say that to me? You know, I used to get on to me on cousin Chelsea and says two numbers, but we do one more numbers that you know, bad friends or grand lovers. We didn't have those three, you know. And I I just I I I love that bond that we have, yeah, because it's a true fano, you know. Yeah, yeah. I love that bond, and it's separate from everything that we have. We both have we both have great friends, we both have great fano that we love, but what we have is really separate to that because we're such a software, and you know you're funny one in there, and it's it's uh it's really magical, and we're quite lucky to have each other. Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

And I I've been very blessed that you have opened different eyes and called from that. And I and I really thank you for doing it at such a time in life in a generation where it was very taboo or you know, very not spoken of, and it was you just being your authentic self. We don't have any choice.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

No, that's definitely what I'm seeing, hearing from you, and I've always heard that from you. We can't act another way. We might be able to dress ourselves down, yes, yeah, but we can't act another way. Being questioned why do we speak like that is I don't know. This is my culture and voice. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:30

Yeah, mentally you don't know any any other way. The only other way you know is pretend to not be. You have to become five, but other than that, no. It's too hard.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Yeah, I don't know how people don't know.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

I don't know how they know it. So yeah. Yeah, that's what I really love about our relationship. Yeah. And also moving on from Vogue, when I asked you, because I had my 50th, and you did that, and and I was like, I'm having a Madonna evening for my 50th. And then I was like, would you could you please throw a Madonna showcase, which you choreographed with your other sisters and TV, and it was so special. Could did you get bringers from that that time when you did that my 50th?

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Oh yes. So I I approached my daughters and said, Hey, Uncle's 50th is coming up. And I said, I've run Uncle and I don't know anything else other than the Donna. I thought she's next to her. Yeah, Madonna. And I said, it's a vote thing. And I said, now, you know, meeting those skills and introducing the voting and seeing what they could do. I actually approached my daughter Sasha and Priya to come up with a concept or a choreography for it. And um, they did an amazing job. Especially, you know, especially because we were working with beginners, yeah, you know, like there were some of us in the group that had never done it before, and you know, we had to really practice hard, you know, because Vogue is very precise, you know, it's not something you could just fling around. No, I mean they did, and I just said that would be such a wonderful idea, and they you know, they didn't hesitate at all. They said for Uncle Donald, and with all of us, we're doing it, you know, and we've practiced for hours and hours, you know. And yeah, no, so we did that. We were fifty of them and we're so happy because that that performance was meaningful, you know, and it just fit everything from your favourite artist, queen, theme of the night, everything was great. But yes, we did have some birth from there. I'm just gonna do it now. Because we were like, oh wow, that was fun, you know, and things like that. And then obviously we posted it online. If anything, I just post things on there so I know that there's a copy of it somewhere. I don't think we don't really expect quite showing. But you know, in 10 years' time, like we've lost your phone and report the standard, you know, there's a copy somewhere. Yeah, no, it got some really good uh feedback and reaction online, and then we started getting offers with money. What? So I thought, well, we're not saying nothing, not money. Yeah, so at the time I just thought, oh, this will be a brilliant idea. Some of my daughters can make some extra cash, and we went for it. And we training our which is now which is called black magic. Yes, yeah, black magic, and it's been the one it's been a wonderful journey. Yes, so we have we have done a mix. So we performed for family, yeah, and we've done that. We never charge for that, you know, because that's a gives back and both ourselves and our sister hailing, you know, things like that. Choreography is choreography. It's choreography. Choreography was when it's like probably what I'll describe it as. And upon that, one of the persons that actually got a touch of us straight onto the map when they saw that was Ray Bena NZ. Oh, pregnant. And as as you know, she's a one-time high sisterhood that one. And given we're from there, she's called because I was quite closely. And before we knew it, not long after your birthday, oh, we were in the next priority at Long Beach, uh Long Beach, Long Room, Possible Bay, yeah. So there's a dad, and then we were off the family bar and you know, Taylor, and things like that. So, yeah, and we got some really good exposure through it, and we've just had multiple events since then, and it's it's been a really cool journey.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

There's one Pink that's you've done how many times have you done the Pink Development? You know that yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:29

So after we we performed for everything and everyone in every night club, we thought, you know, let's bring it back home. Let's bring it back home and give white cutles something because there wasn't anything too major at the time. There wasn't anything revengeful, yeah. You know, Auckland and Wellington's literally miss out. Yeah. So and I thought, you know what? A bit of a prime yeah, let's do something for the White Puffle, uh, where people don't have to travel to Auckland or travel to Wellington. So we tried to create anything, and it's for Sisters You know, that and we created that one just to showcase our sales and fear to the world, our beautiful child, because we believe that we've got something a little different to our unique. But also to uh show other young trains that you can perform. There is a space for you to do Drake. Don't feel that don't do Drake because it's going to contradict your identity and things like that. You know what? You never know what trades from or whatever you're in, it's never going to find that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

Do you have opinions about it?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:31

We have had opinions about that, you know. You know, and that's a given beer barrier.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

Yeah, I but we didn't look at let's let's say you know I grew up with like outfits and I was clubs in the early uh in the mid eighties, and coal, uh these beauty and those trans women. Yep. I don't even think in any of these fellows they had drag queens.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

Not with I remember back in the eighties, and they were the ones that were doing we didn't have drag queens that was other night clubs, but certainly a cult fellas. And the cult's trainers is a trans woman, you know, and she is one of our elders.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:12

I will say though, until I actually got exposure, I I too, at a very young age, just thought that drag was just for gay men, own lady now, and I had that concept, and I hadn't seen and you know, in my time in Vincent, I hadn't seen any trans women but I once I finally reached Auckland and I never forget my first I think it was around 2007.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:37

Anyway, I went to Family by Night Club, and it happened to be the night that Southside Sisters were on. Oh right, were you know, Chanel, Bitchavia, Sasha, Pivbles, you know, and and all those girls, Petra. And I went, wow, wow, oh my gosh, not only is still not only are I seeing a trans woman perform on the stage, there's five of them, you know, like wow, you know, and they're doing it as a group and they're doing it as a sisterhood. And I tell you what, that ignited something in me that I was so inspired.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:14

My opinion of it is that drag queens are acting that way. It's a performance, whereas trans women are that way. Yeah. Yeah, performance, yeah, definitely. You know, they live that performance. They live it a little bit more. And even when we've had trans women in a country, we talked about RuPaul Strape waste. Yeah, it's a little bit like Pitmont, you know? Yes, different. And everyone, you know, the Rupert Strape Right. Oh, I know I was one girl that won one season. That's a cold. Nothing but yeah, it's different.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:52

It's at a different level. I I really wish that at the time of being me being so young, but it was a kind.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:07

You think you would have skipped straight and speaking?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

Yeah, like I would have I was trying to skip this drink a lot earlier as well. Um yeah, and I understood I might always have done it with me because for us, I wouldn't say it's the favourite thing, but it's another opportunity. With you is another opportunity, and then the performance I'm trying to be together. I love our memories and our love for performing a drink show. Not just the show, but all the time you've seen racing together and laughing together and drinking, having a drink after together, going together. The performance is amazing, but yeah, I really enjoy interesting the memories and time that's actually in and around it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

I love it when you call it Sisters United.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:57

Yes, yeah, yeah. Because I love Sister's United, because for me it's just the hold of the failure in some sort of way. And when also you will know that we do our best to showcase other trans performers. Of course. Of course, we have queens and that and we usually pick ones that are are very supportive of trans in general. Like the bringing menu, teach you the part, you know, like you know, they're they're for the sisters, they're for the darling, for the girlies, you know. I mean, yeah, so and then we try and feature as many trains as possible, yeah. Let's see, we've got Ms. Kingder, which I'm really happy about. Yeah, sorry, we've got to put people on a fight other trained performers in J Queens and you know, we just used to hanging up with ourselves, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Because you've always had lots of numbers. People have always gone, haven't they? But the in the beginning, you it was it was a huge dye from getting out of the guard and I have to apologize for that because I'm always having longness. And you go you know, people just trying to get in, and you know, it was only just because you're just you haven't necessarily been a husband, but you're only just started really. So a lot of these city queens that we call them, they didn't even really know about it, did they? You were just thinking about giving better to people to give back to the community down here, and giving them a show.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:34

Yeah, and we had a bigger response. The response was I knew that. From the public. We were expecting that we were expecting something a lot smaller.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:41

Well, that time point for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:43

Yeah, well, we know as soon as we had the show, the feedback and the comments, and I I I mean, I felt like we had a three-hour interview after the show with everyone asking the questions. But the feedback that we got was that there are so many locals that just wanted the show. And not only that, what I liked was the feedback was unique in that the type of show we put on is what they were looking for. Oh wow! Yes, the type of show. Now with Black Magic. Um obviously we're very choreographed, uh, performance-based, and that comes from at a time and the and the girlies before us that showcased that. Um, and so when Black Magic performed, we got a lot of feedback around, oh, I haven't seen that since my girl, blah blah blah. I haven't seen that since that first, you know, so like a lot of people could relate our performances, something seen in the 90s, you know, and in the 80s, and like, oh, we just don't see that anymore. So that's why we actually got a really good response, and that's why we've had a growing crowd come back every year. Is that and just oh, everyone loves cola, cola, all that our lowest season. Sorry, yeah. I love cola. Oh yeah. And now I've done it in Diva Rigid, who's also a road girl, of the report, Drake and Standanta. Yeah, and we love having her, she's been so supportive of Alec Magic, and and um she's worked really hard to create a platform of her own, and now that she has this platform, it's always inclusive of trans performers. Yeah. And I actually dedicate to trans and including like magic in so much as um. She continues to reach out, so yeah, we love working alongside her too.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:29

Great, it's such a great this is this here will be your how many years? Number four. Number four! Yeah, number four, I'm gonna go. Wow. Yeah, I'm giving back to you to apologize for not coming to one. Which is not I mean, I shouldn't even laugh about it because you know, which the total for support. But Mr. McBean reached out and said, obviously, you know, yeah, in the days that I done with television, and then I was always taking a big puppet sort of thing. So it was called the Gene List at one stage from a TV show called We Don't Wan Know Valley Television. That was the chronic quality. And um she reached out to me, Mr. She was like, what are you up to? And I was like, Oh, it's not working. She's like, let's take it back like we used to, way back in the day, you know, and let's do that recarpet thing. And I thought about it and I was like, that'd be really cool. Yeah, let's do it. And I was already coming to the video and I couldn't wait to tell you I was coming. I bought a ticket with my with some, you know, I mean, and I I love what you seem to me as you that were, you know, we were we were coming and I was going with Pauline and Jade, and you know, these are older, you know, transistors that have always been in my life until I was a teenager's boy. And you're like, oh well, we've got a timeout to the table for you, Uncle. And you know, I discussed it with all three of them, and I'm like, they understand that we are now too much. Giving back to what I'm doing, you know, sitting on that red carpet, everybody that comes in, and it's just so exciting people about what they're hearing. And I've always believed in all audience uh participation, and I'll feel like they're all a sort of a part of that, and they can feel their outfits and I'll take various sovereigns with me and my being there, and you know, just have a little element to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:14

So excited for I think. Yeah, yeah. And that's that's that's an old school thing, you know. The re-topic thing. Yeah, the intro is so important, yeah. Yeah, and so important, and yeah, these days when our teams chose it's you're typically it's scary and you sort of just waddle on in. They don't sort of have that whole enterrage at the front anymore to get people going, get people. Because I remember as a young one attending, you know, well, back then it was LGBT events, and yeah, oh, it was there was a the whole door was a commotion before I even got into the main show. It was a commotion all the way through. Yes, yes, you know, oh I felt like there was a commotion at the door, it was huge, beautiful chaos. It felt like there were like performances before big performances. Yeah, all the way down the back, and it was just so amazing. It's missing, it's a missing culture now. I think it is. Yeah, and it's not.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:07

It shouldn't be everywhere, it shouldn't just be on the stage. It actually gives you another performance because it gives you some sort of relief. It takes off some of the pressure. Yeah. I mean, you're still gonna perform the same way. Yeah, hungry. Hungry, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and if they give it at the bar and they give it at the front door, and they get it from people that are in, you know what I mean? Yeah, mincing around. That's it's really old school. And and we we don't get to celebrate that often now because of acts and you know, people are moving and you know which was is it's bad. It's what's really talking about myself now. So I'm looking forward, I'm looking forward to doing it too. So I have the most brilliant conversation with you today, and I'll just closest off the Thomas Cordyle that I'm having with my guests, and uh five five questions. You don't think about them too much. Almost five answer. So what was the one thing you love most about being yourself today?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:10

One thing I love about my health today, most about myself today's boy be an activist and a healing member of our community. That's what I love about myself. Because that it makes me happy.

unknown 1:14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:25

And a quote that my father told me was be the person you want to be with younger.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

So that's why I'm happy because I believe I'm too funny. Wow, bad. What would you say to your younger self then? Don't be feeling afraid. Yeah. Don't be feeling afraid. Choose you. Sometimes you need to choose you, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:46

You were afraid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:48

Yeah. Yeah. I think I yeah. What each or five? My family. My family.

unknown 1:15:01

And my pool. Yeah. What brings to who or what brings to my face?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:10

My mother! I I actually couldn't think of anything. I can think of a lot of things, but just sitting at the top and my file. Sorry, I have to do my button. Another breakfast table. You know, it's a I can make my battery uh thing if I could report it it's on my F. You know, you know it's the fuck uh it's the cave.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:52

Yeah, so all that together.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:57

So what does that up with uh part of our wider ramber farm mean to you? You know our topic, our wider farmers. So what does that upright part of a wider robber farm mean to you? No, uh what do they need to do?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:20

They maybe won't have family, but they store my family. They have to fill what do they need to me? They have to fill a hand and a portion of my hand. So they do me that mean a lot to me. They make up a page of me in a way.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

They fill a voice that cannot be given to you by anybody else. Yeah, I would. Yeah, I'm gonna hit it that way. Um yeah.

unknown 1:16:51

So is there anything on your heart that you haven't talked about that you would like to do?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:58

Um, no, I don't think there is. I mean, you're having to think from the top of all to the 13th event in my life. No, not not one.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:10

I think we've talked about the most domain, but I think that's the right one. I think I think it's why I would want to.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

Yeah, I don't think I'm thinking part of them. I know this dude. I don't think there are plastic that I don't really know. And I think this information is wrong for that really do your part of that. I think it's a really important conversation task for you and I having it now in relationship for your wire. I don't believe in a woman that you know. And I'm very close to and that provided you do counterstanding, and I'm so happy that you did that.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:01

Oh very happy thank you for hoping. Oh it's your wife. Yeah, I gotta be something watching the robot. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

Yeah, I because I wanted to do so well and being so good that you know I I'm like my father, you know, and that I dictate the drive drive, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:31

Um I won't consider that I'm bringing it now. I don't think that's the fact I like this so much and I just want to be to that and my head counter thing that would be obtainable thing.

unknown 1:18:47

Yeah, that's why it's so well organized.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:53

You're organized. And I'll just