Takatāpui talk Claudette Hauiti

Claudette Hauiti — Media, Politics, Identity & Belonging

In this episode of Takatāpui Talk, Donald Hollingsworth sits down with broadcaster, political journalist, media leader, sports enthusiast, and proud mother Claudette Hauiti.

From her upbringing in Aotearoa to her years in the media spotlight and the halls of Parliament, Claudette shares a deeply personal journey of identity, courage, and finding her place in the world. Together, Donald and Claudette explore what it was like growing up as Takatāpui, the importance of remaining connected to whenua, whānau and te ao Māori, and the changing visibility of rainbow communities in Aotearoa.

They reflect on the groundbreaking Māori Television series Takatāpui, discuss Claudette's experiences in the Press Gallery holding political leaders to account, and revisit the moments that shaped her understanding of who she was and who she could become.

This is a conversation filled with humour, honesty, insight and reflection — a reminder that our stories matter, our voices matter, and that being seen can change lives.

Topics include:
• Growing up Takatāpui in Aotearoa
• Whānau, identity and belonging
• The impact of Māori Television's Takatāpui series
• Women in sport and leadership
• Journalism, politics and speaking truth to power
• Visibility, representation and resilience

Real conversations. Real voices. Our stories.

Hosted by Donald Hollingsworth.

Thank you for listening to Takatāpui Talk with Donald Hollingsworth.

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Our conversations.
Our stories.
Our voices.

Arohanui.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to Tech a Talk. This is where we have important conversations, real stories, our voices. I'm Donald Hollingsworth, your host. Today's Cordydo is with Claudette. Claudette is a producer, journalist, and former member of Parliament with a deep history in Mori media and storytelling. She was a part of the early foundations of Māori television, including producing the incredible tech, helping to create space for voices that had long gone unheard. But beyond titles and achievements, this is a conversation about experience, about what it means to observe, to question, and to understand the world through a different lens. Claudette brings insight, honesty, and a lifetime of perspective to this corridor. Thoughtful, grounded, and at times unexpectedly funny. Here's my conversation with Claudette Howerty. We go. Did you realise you were documenting a movement or just a show?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Absolutely. I knew full well that the program that had run for a hundred episodes on Fakasa Māori Television, and that was almost, that was over 10 years ago now, it was boundary breaking, it was iconic, and it was seminal in uh for our community, Takatapui community, but not just for the Takatapui community, but for Taiwan Māori as well, too, who wanted to celebrate, to participate and have access into the world of their Fano members who were and are Takatapui. Now that doesn't mean that we were the first because Queer Nation came before us and I want to pay tribute to those Rangatera as well. And Gibbons, I've forgotten his first name now, Arahman White. Wayne Gibbons. Wayne Gibbons. Gibbons. And Andrew Whiteside, absolutely, who had produced the first queer program on national television. However, when Pash Māori established itself, I thought that there was a really big opportunity for us to tell our stories in our way because we have unique uh issues amongst our own amongst ourselves, and a lot of that has to do with Fano Hapu iwi and our Marai as well, too. So there were stories that I wanted to tell, and you know, some of them were around our uh transgender, our uh fano who were non-binary. I mean, we didn't even have that word back in Takatapui days, but we were starting to explore those notions of the many diversities on the multifabric of our communities back then during Takatapui. And so I want to pay tribute to our first presenters, and of course you came along as well, but to Ramon, who was actually the very first transgender presenter on national television ever in this country, to Todewa Bidd, you know, heaitua, and Tanya Simons, who was, you know, just the lesbian goat of all times. You know, she was just the girl that we drooled over, too, actually. Yes, some of us, you know, and so you know, it it just opened up a whole raft of stories and avenues and you know, queer spots, the amount of stories that we did, the types of language that we'd used. And I I also want to mehi to those of our Kaima here who worked on some of the kupu that we try to devise, try to build a vocabulary specifically for our Takitaapui community. We didn't get it, we didn't always get it right. A lot of that was to do with our own internalized homophobia. Some of most of that was to do with our inability to access kupu um from Tautafi tour and bring it forward into a contemporary space. So, did I realize, going back to your original question, did I realize how groundbreaking this was? Absolutely, I did. It was the very first indigenous queer program in around the world. So, yes, I did know, and we won several awards for some of the episodes that we had. One of them was on hate crimes and a couple of peace awards as well. So, yeah, uh those were formative days, and those were groundbreaking days. And I hope that there is something that the press and Takotapui community can take forward that they that resonates with them.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

How uh uh can we see it anymore anywhere? Or is it Takatapue?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

So Tuckerapui, you know, ran its course, and as everything does in television, it ran its course. You are able to access it now on uh New Zealand on screen. Oh uh, I think you might have to pay for it. I'm not 100% sure. But some people have some of our fano have requested uh specific episodes, and depending on who they are and what they use them for, I have allowed free and fettered access to some of those episodes. But for some of those who are wanting to use some of our episodes for what I consider to be non-promotional or non-for stories or programs that do not benefit the Takatawi community, and yeah, I have made that decision on behalf of the whole Takatawi community. If you if it if it doesn't look like you're gonna benefit us, then no, you have to fuck off and I won't give you access.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Good. Because you know, it's uh it was very important television, and they people might need to research these sort of things too, because this is where I feel a little bit sad about television today, because we have nothing. You know, there is nothing available for us to you know for our to see who may be questioning or seeing. So it was very uh it was it's it's it's sad that we don't have access. And this is why I really wanted to uh create this podcast and introduce to people, people that have you know been pioneers in our community. But I mean, that's so I mean we could talk about Takatapui television for a very long time, but I just this is about you today. I hope you and I'm sure you're willing to share. So I'm gonna take you back before all of that, before the cameras, before parliament, before the platforms. Tell us where you grew up.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Can I just make a quick mention of what you had just said about television not having enough programs that look at us by us? I don't want to say look at us because that means that's a voyeuristic view on us and the Takatawi community um years ago, you know, 10 years ago, putting one or two queer people in a mainstream program ain't queer programming. So while you might get uh queer funding through New Zealand on air for having a transgender character, that's not queer programming. But what with social media now and what with the proliferation of content that's coming across the internet?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Uh our Rangatahi now can get a myriad of really positive content across social media, but they can also get the crap as well, too. So we have to be really mindful of, you know, that that we hope that they are seeing the right stuff. Yes, you know, what the right stuff for them, they'll make that decision. So, you know, it's still the same today. Having a queer person in a mainstream program ain't no queer program. So I just want to put that across. And uh so where did I grow up? Well, you know, interestingly or not, um, my parents were part of the first wave of urban uh urban comahi or mahi uh comahi that came from the rural areas, my mother from Napohi and my father from Napuro, who came to the cities as part of the urbanization rejuvenation projects that the government had established during those days, and that was post-uh the Second World War, to work in the factory jobs. So they were all blue-collar jobs. And we worked in the my parents worked in the lolly factories, they worked in sewing factories and in the car park factories, and that was to drive urbanization, that was to drive Maori into the cities so that they could mahi in those particular blue-collar jobs. Now, on the flip side of that, though, and also the idi of those that did leave their Fenoa, because at that time the government was also taking up blocks of land that was left vacant by these by these Chupuna who came to the cities under the Public Works Act. So make no mistake about it, Fano, it wasn't an urban drift post-World War I and post-World War II of our Fano. It was a deliberate attempt by the government to bring those families into the city so that they could take up those vacant parts of uh the Fenua around the country. So I'm an Uri of that. My parents were first generation uh urban dwellers here in Tamaki Makoto, and I was born and raised in Tamaki Makoto, and my petal is flushed down the drain, and it now sits underneath Spaghetti Junction. So while I am very much urban born and raised in Tamaki Makoto, I actually now live in Fanganui Antara, and that's the ukaipo of my mummy on her papa's side. So my mother is uh Nati Hine Narpuhi and here in Pornike, and my father is Stefano Apunui and Nati Porto. And so that's where I grew up, went to Mount Roscal grammar school. Interestingly enough, our head girl, head boy both turned out queer. My best mate turned out queer. There's a lot of stuff happening in the water in Mount Roscoe grammar school, flowing through those pipes, I tell you. So uh yeah, went went there, went to university in Australia, and um got a sports degree, and then came back and worked in politics.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

How did it shape you? How did it shape you? Any of it?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

All of it shaped it, shaped me, right? Being urban, being disconnected from Fenoa, being disconnected from Rio. My father was really good though in ensuring that we knew our Fakapapa. My mother was very close to her fanu in Napuhi, and so we still had a really good sense of our Fakapapa in the north. My father taught Teryo at night school, so I would go along with him. So I still had a really strong connection with Tao Maori, in spite of the fact that we grew up away from our Marai and Ukaipur. And then, of course, well, you know, the classic adult. So I played softball, right? And you know, that's the gateway to all things lesbian, is it not? And you know, I defy anybody that says it is not, and so I just saw these most magnificent human beings, these creatures, these women who were strong and had the the strongest hands, and you know, and they could swing bats and they could run, and you know, and they were just felt and strong and muscular. And I thought to myself, shit, I want to be just like that. And it was a friend of mine, a straight boy, who said, Oh, you've got to watch out for them, for those women. And I said, why? What's the matter with them? He said, they do it with their hands. And I thought, okay, so for about two seasons, I kept watching what it is that they do with their hands. And I thought, well, whatever it is they do with their hands, I want to do it too, you know. So yeah, you know, played around in the in the softball on the softball diamonds off the pitch, you know. Yeah, played around there, went off overseas, did a degree, came back, watched women play rugby. That wasn't me at that time. I was too too old by then, too decrepit in the bones. But, you know, watched our uh wahine, really strong, real kaha, and decided that you know, I wanted to be able to participate in positive profiling of our Wahinea tour, who are doing extraordinary things, and also who happened to be Tucker.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

So that that led you on to studying sport, was you know you're doing softball and stuff like that. Did you feel supported though at that time as a young Māori woman?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Interestingly enough, my whole life I've always been the Fano member, not the black sheep of the Farno, but the Fano member who was slightly different, who would explore different things, the first to go overseas, the first to go to university. And can I just have have a big shout out to my siblings now? Because my sister graduated with her master's this year, and now we are all tapped and gowned siblings. So we all now have degrees, and I'm so proud of us.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

And you know, I was the first one that, you know, in my sibling amongst my siblings who went off and and did stuff, you know, left home, did stuff and explored stuff and got into shit, and you know, so it wasn't that I was so it wasn't that I was supported, I wasn't not supported. Okay, I just did what I wanted to do. I didn't harm anybody. I knew that, you know, if I wasn't harming any harming anyone, and if I did it for the right reasons, then I would be safe. And so I went off and explored, and you know, I had my first lesbian relationship with my first girlfriend. She was a softball player, she was the most extraordinary, extraordinarily beautiful, beautiful creature. You know, she was androgynous, and I guess today we would call her non-binary. She just presented as presented as a really strong wahine who was the most beautiful androgynous creature, and I fell instantly in love with her, and we had a really intense relationship for about four years, but I do have to say that in those days, you know, the violence in the lesbian community was quite rife, and uh, people we didn't talk about the violence in our relationships. There's a lot more support for our Takatapui in violent relationships now, but in those days it was just something that you put up with, and then there was all the negative cordial narrative around, well, you know why you're so violent, it's because one of you wants to be the male, the other one, you know, you're fighting against being gay, and you know, there was all that negative narrative that we couldn't contextualize and put it down to homophobia and stereotypes. We didn't have a context back then that we do now, and so the support uh for Wahini like myself and my partner, because you know I was both a victim and a perpetrator, and so there was no outlet or no counselling for us, but there was also in those times, which is prevalent today, the pressure from our farno, uh, particularly my partner's farno at that time, and she also then went through a horrific uh time of being committed to a mental institute because her fano thought that she was mental. And so during Takatabu, we did do a series episodes on those of Alifano who were put in mental institutions like Oakley, it was Oakley back then, not Carrington, and we talked to some survivors of those mental institutes. So, so not supported, no, in respect to this the support systems and the social support systems for Alfano back then, non-existent. But there still could be more today, but there wasn't any back then.

SPEAKER_04 17:32

No, coming out from it too. Is she still with us?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

She is still with us, thank the thank the goddess, and she's still with us, and she's still healthy as much as she can be. But yeah, and I I just wish her all the very best. Unfortunately, I don't see her because she is in another part of the country, but I wish her all the very, very best. She was a glorious and she is still a glorious Wahene, and my first coming out, my first relationship was just intense, beautiful, sexually intense, amazing. I I couldn't have wished for a better uh coming out, really.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

Well, oh, so you came out then at that sort of time. Were you a teenager or early 20s?

SPEAKER_00 18:21

So I was 22.

unknown 18:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

22, 23, when I came out. But I guess, you know, like the rest of us, I think I knew I was queer when I was 11, actually, when I went to a softball game and saw some wahine playing softball. And I said to my father, who took me to this softball game, I said, I like those two girls. They were twin sisters from Dunedin. And he said, What do you like about them? And I said, I don't know what it is that I like about them, but I I just know that I like them. And he said, interesting. And that was all he said.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Did he?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Unfortunately, my dad passed away before I came out. Now that could be a good thing or a bad thing for me, I'm not 100% sure.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

But anyway, he said interesting though. You know, interesting. He probably knew eh.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Uh was his well, he was the type, yeah, he was the type of chap that would say things like she's just like or he's just like, and then would name a tube on her. You know, so and so is just that's what they would do. And I'm sure there was a tube, in fact. His sister, uh my auntie, is Takatafui, and he'd probably say, Yeah, you you're just like your auntie.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

So there's a lot of Takatui in your far now.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Uh there aren't as many as I think there are. You know, I don't know them all, but we have I have Takatawi in my far now, absolutely. And, you know, they are just again the most wonderful, expressive, really put together people, I've got to say. Really? I'm I'm I'm sure it's because uh we are all particularly on my mother, my mum's far now, they're really tight and really supportive, and I just love them dearly. And so our Takatapui fano, my nephews and nieces on my mum's side are really well supported and just love to bits.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

And I love that for them.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

I you know how they say there's sort of 10% of us takatapu in our community or in the in the world, and I have 65 first cousins on my mother's side, and I know of two lesbians, and I'm like, there must be more than that. How does that statistic work? You know, I've always thought there was 10% of us, didn't you think?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Well, of course, you know, in Arau Mua, Tea Otafi to, you know, there we were Takatapui, so it's not a new phenomenon, and that was one of the things that we dispelled as well, too. That, you know, all of a sudden colonization comes here and wham bam, you know, colonization brought Takatapuyism, but they did not, and so it would be it would, you know, it would mean then that there is uh Takatapui amongst our Fano Mairano. And so why would we not? I think today that there is more opportunity for us to be able to explore our everythingness, and that includes our sexual orientation, but our sexuality as well, too. So for some of our Fano, what I had learnt from the days of doing Takitapui is that there is a big difference between orientation identification, and that is an individual thing, but it's also a community thing. So the community in which you are established or which supports you can really bring forth that the ideal of what you want to be as an individual. But also to know that in that individualism, it's really important for some of us that we contribute that back, whatever shape or form it is. back to our Morai if we participate in Murai and to Alfano Hapu iwi as well.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

And you know, because there are lots of different, you know, with the LGBTQ plus, do you think Takatapui is a term uh is the most beautiful term as I've always loved, that they can also sit under this term? You know, I have Fakuawahene that say to me who are transgender women, I don't feel I fit in Takatapui, and I'm like, I believe you do.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I I would hope that one day everybody who identifies as queer in Tiao Maori will feel comfortable to be under Takatapui, under that uh kupu and under that owl. But at the end of the day it does depend on on them. But I am hopeful that for those of us who are pakike that we are embrace enough to allow those to feel comfortable because at the end of the day it is an individual choice. And so that's incumbent upon the pakike actually to ensure that there is a safe pathway for them a safe arah for them to make their way to wherever they wish to be. And if it isn't Mori then I really do hope that the Korwai of Takatapui is the one that they wish to be under. I think you know for those that feel uncomfortable with that I do feel that we have a responsibility and it is you know our responsibility and our burden to bear.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

Yes. And to make them feel welcome absolutely to make them feel welcome and to make them feel that that there is a place for them aha tiaha wherever they are from whatever they do however they identify that the their call away is our call away for no we take beautiful all right we're gonna go into if a young person was watching us watching that right now maybe they're questioning who they are or feeling alone what would you say to them just to have the strength to be yourself first and foremost and to be kind to yourself first and foremost it's not about what others how others perceive and see you it's about yourself first and foremost love yourself and love being who you are including your tinana and embrace all parts of your waitanga as well too so while you're going through the discovery phase whether you are you know angsting or have anxiety about where to go what to do who you are why you are where you're being how you're being sit with that all of those emotions and just love all of those emotions and also to love your body because your body goes through this as well too and however you want to see yourself whether it is as a Wahine lesbian as a Tane as a transgender however you identify your body and your waiwa are connected.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

So make sure that you love and embrace all parts of you but first and foremost it's about you embracing you as a unique individual it is not about the pressures that other individuals put on you.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

And yes I know that you're part of a fano widafano iwi but they will come to love you and if they do not come to love you then they are not you oh gosh that brought me a tear Claudette I always love it when our uh our fano share you know how how how uh once you come to terms with who you are and you support yourself and you forgive yourself too you know it's not about anybody else. You know I I've had other Takatapui that I've interviewed that have just said to me what what would you say to them? It says fuck them don't care if what I say to a younger don't worry about it. You are always right it's not what they say about you it's how you are feeling that makes you right it's it's right it's not wrong.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

You know because there's always interesting you say interesting you say forgive yourself. Yes forgive yourself for what but also to forgive them as well too for not understanding because that is their burden to carry not yours you know we've got enough we've got enough baggage kitty to carry around ourselves whatever it might be. But yes forgiveness is a really big thing and uh forgive them for not understanding.

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Yeah. And forgive yourself for not understanding is what I was actually sort of saying and also forgive yourself for saying such cruel things to yourself in your inner dialogue. That's what I believe we should and and because that's what we should hold on to. It's okay to you don't have to say these horrible things about yourself, which is what I have done myself. And then I learned to forgive myself first and then I forgave forgave the other people that were sort of homophobic because I've certainly suffered a lot of it myself. And I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

You're absolutely right I think you've brought up a really important point and that's the internalized homophobia that we all carry. And I think that that is one of the biggest pressures for all of us is not only the homophobia that we are getting in and around us but it's the internalized narrative that we keep replaying to ourselves. And on top of that internalized homophobia we've also got that colonization as well too. So we've got a lot of challenges as Mori and Tuktapui Mori but you're absolutely right now on the head is that internal narrative that we have to keep continuously strip away and sometimes it it takes us a lifetime to get to a comfortable space where we don't hear those voices that all in our head going over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Yeah kick it to the pavement I always think that's just beautiful I thank you for that I really loved it discussing that with you but you've had an incredible career she's been a media mogul and you know she's gotten she's been a politician and now she's been a political journalist and now you're in communications when you stepped into parliament which is a very different space what what did what did you think what did you think yeah I just thought yeah okay so this is cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

You know this is the next thing I was shoulder tapped to run for the national party I know far know you don't think that the national party is very supportive of the Tucktawi community I'll tell you this though they're not very so the the core is that the National Party is or the centre right is not very supportive of Tuctawi and especially now during this coalition government where they're ramping through all these unbelievable policies and especially New Zealand first with their anti-trans anti-queer policies is just completely off the dial. Let me tell you this it doesn't matter which political stripes you wear there are homophobes in every single political party whether they are far left centre left center far right far centre whatever whatever the fuck you want to call them you know I mean we've got to remember that even in you know God rest your soul God bless you even into party Maori we had the leader the former leader God rest their soul didn't vote for the marriage equality bill you know so there was the Department Mori that didn't vote for that bill and then we had members of the Labour Party who didn't either because of their Pacific Island fucker papa. So and then there were those like Morris Williamson over in Pakudanga that made made the most incredible speech about rainbows over Pakudanga in support of the marriage equality bill the marriage bill so uh you know there's homophobes across the political spectrum the national party and the centre right are not the only place where you can find those kind of creatures but so when I went to national party the reason I went to the national party at that stage was because I was how bent on supporting treaty settlements for those uh for those of our Huan Iwi that wanted to do that. And so I worked really closely with the then Minister of Treaty Settlements Christopher Finlayson and another queer chap who wanted to remain in the closet who said that he did not want to be identified for anything other than what he was so you know he called it at him but everyone knew he was queer. So he especially the way he speaks I love the way he speaks and that's his dead giveaway I'm sorry Christopher but I do love the way he speaks I love that well you know I mean and then then there's all those stereotypes you know that we we love to you know send up you know queer is queer we know yes it's not it's we got the gay dark you know we know you might not know but we know for long before you know how many times have we have we out as people and they hadn't even known you know I mean hello they're knocking on their door so you know so I joined the the national party to to be frank um tucket being takatwe wasn't an issue for me it was being Māori you know so for us you know for us Māori we have those and I I've mentioned it several times before we have those hoodles being Māori being takatapoy which ones comes first in which context and for in politics it was always the the Māori stick that you know cropped up and what are Maori's doing it you know so even before we got on to the question you know so so there was that and then you know I got turfed out of parliament and then went back into parliament as a press reporter. So you know again I did however going back into parliament just recently four years ago as the parliamentary press reporter for Watia I did ensure that in any of those issues around Takatapui I raised and I championed the issues around Benjamin Doyle in the Green Party you know I championed that because that out and out homophobia by the New Zealand first leader that whole rhetoric and that narrative and the prime minister not stamping down on that and placing their Farno and their child in a precarious you know in a really violent situation was just incredibly wrong and unjust that I had to go into bat for that so you know so when when there were yeah so when there were issues to champion for tucket I made sure that I raised my head above the parapet did you ever was there any sort of blatant homophobia for you in any time that you're in parliament where you're like wow that's a bit blatant you know in my face no no there wasn't but there were a lot of no but as I said there were a lot of comments around being Māori oh right yeah which is what are you Maoris doing why are you Maoris doing that oh it's you Maoris again oh you Maoris want everything oh you Maoris it's history oh you Maoris that was years ago oh you Maoris need to get over yourself. So that's as blatant as homophobia really isn't it's blatant racism isn't it absolutely how did you reply well you know on a couple occasions you know I would uh well it depends on who it came from you know if it was came from the politicians themselves they wouldn't be so subtle right if they were and not as subtle as that it was they would say words like this is about equality and this is about equity and this is what the this is how the narrative that is spun out by New Zealand first. This is about equality we don't have to have all those you know toilets with those you know one-sided toilets this is about who we are born and what we are doing you know that that that is still homophobia to its enough and it's talking to a specific group of people that's dog whistling so you have to um cut through you know they're not blatant but they are it is dog whistling to understand and say push back on those MPs to say that's dog whistling and you are talking to a 4% of the community who are your voters and you're speaking directly to them and these are members of our community who are also voters who want to live their life like this and they are entitled to under a democratic country in a democratic country to live their life as they feel. I mean and that's that's how you know that's how I push back on them. Well those that are just blatantly once you know like you Maoris or you queers you puftas they're usually people that say that to me in a in a bar over alcohol and you know depending on who they are the responses are from I'll give fucked your homophobe to when you're sober I'll have another discussion or not because I'll think about whether or not you're worthy of having a discussion you know so it's either that or that yeah yeah I know I think that's your Napole blood isn't it we love to be very confrontational and Nati Hina I'm Nati Hina and you know we are confrontational but I embrace it unless you know where you stand with me unless we know where we stand with Claudette Howard so you've moved into communications now tell us about that so and now I am working uh in comms because unfortunately Watea has lost their news funding so you know we were all made redundant and I am now a comms advisor for Tefano or Wiperator Trust which is organization who does great community work and it's run by John Tamiheri and but so I I monitor comms around that organisation which is also quite controversial just because of the nature of the Mahi that they do. They've been audited 15 times during their time when they were rolling out far no order and they had passed every single audit and yet the government still you know saw it fit to disestablish far no order and that was a political move that was politically motivated to around one single individual and a political party. So it's navigating those kinds of issues you know what is politically motivated and giving advice where required on how it might play out in the media on the responses that are required or not required and also to identifying the media that are adversarial media those that are you know not aligned to their values those that are in the orange zone that are more you know sort of receptive but also quite skeptical and then those that are positive around the policies and issues and your values so I I identify the media who sits in which category and then write and formulate responses to meet the different type of questions that may come from those different types of media organizations. And you know who those media organizations are they the conservatives the liberal and Mori yes the liberals are the middle ground and then there's Mori media Mori media also have their own unique ways of relationships around different Ko Papa so I investigate that as well too to see why they're asking what they're asking and what has prompted certain questions to be asked to our leader our organisational leader. That that that's also too sorry also too this year is quite exciting yeah I was asked it was I was asked we're actually moving away from politics I was asked by Masse University to design a Copapa Maori journalism program for their year twos media communications so I'm doing that this year and it rolls out and I teach Copapu Maori journalism to graduates next year at Masi University here in Falanui Atara so I'm really looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

Yeah congratulations you must be looking forward to it because it's also time for you to share too you know you've got a wealth of experience and also you know you've done lots of different avenues and now you've just moved into communications really I used to when you were a political uh journalist for Radio Wattia I used to always hear your voice because I obviously know your voice instead of when you would be in the media room with and one thing I always noticed is our Prime Minister really struggled with you. And I always heard because I always you know we weren't really seeing each other and we weren't close friends at the time you know I just weren't seeing you and he really really struggled with you and he would ignore you he would blatantly ignore you. I'd never heard him ignore a journalist so much. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Yeah because he'd never had so many pointed Mori questions before so obviously this is during the stand-up this is the post-cabinet stand-up cabinet is when they meet on a Monday and then in the afternoon the Prime Minister comes down and kind of tells you what the cabinet has talked about without giving any details and also in the stands up stand up on the tiles before they go into parliament and my questions were always very Māori centric because I work for a Mori organisation so it was around things like how much how what what kind of discussion did you have with the Mori community did you consult with Ko Matuakia in that rohe what funding are you giving to Mori organisations? Where is the funding for Māori Habu Iwi and why is it that Maori has been left out and why have you only targeted Maori in this negative policy you know those kinds of things very pointed and of course he wasn't briefed the Prime Minister was not briefed around those Mori questions because they're unused very unused to having a Mori journalist in there only asking the Mori questions previous Maori journalists would ask general questions and you know they would just give a general response but I was asking specific and I was bringing forward also to real stories real people and saying things like this rangatelah and name the rangatila said this you said you met with he said you did not prime minister is he lying prime minister you know so things like that and on one occasion where um so what usually happens is a journalist asks a question and if there is some positive aspect roll on for the government they would allow that journalist to ask more questions and more questions. But if it was a tricky situation that cut you off dead after the first question you might get a second question in or not but of course I got cut off after the first question I said you know in one particular instance where it went viral where I told the prime minister you know so off I ask a question and it was about our fano in where the police had raided the FUDI and taken away mummies and grandmothers and it was a drug bust and they were raiding the whole of all Portique gangs and they had taken away mummies and grandmothers and left the children in the house and on one occasion they had a two year old in a car one of the reports from far now members was there was a baby in the car. So I say to the Prime Minister do you condone this? Is this what you support the taking of children away from their mummies and holding them hostage by police in a house and in a car he said I refute that and I said the story's coming through and he refused and moved on and I yell out above the next journalist hey Lon you haven't answered my question Prime Minister says you had enough time I said no I have not you will ask this question. Mori are wanting these answers you will answer the question and he said Claudia you've taken up enough time and I said excuse me Prime Minister I said you give other journalists three four questions why is it that Māori have to take a back seat in the bus we're not back seat riders you have to ask Mori questions and you have to answer the questions that Mori give you I'm asking questions from Māori and and of course there was a rumble amongst the journalists they got very uncomfortable with that they were embarrassed. They didn't like the fact that I had actually they weren't supportive of me they weren't they were thinking oh no no no they had you know it was the first time I had said you will ask you no you are what I was basically saying was our Mori questions aren't as valid or as important to you as Ms Park is and they actually kind of got that from my questions. The Prime Minister said oh I'll come back to you Claudia anyway he did come back to me at the end he said Claudia I'm gonna come back to you now I'll come back to you and instead Of you know berating him, I said, and he'd just come back from overseas from China, and I said, Oh, welcome home, Prime Minister. And of course, he laughed. And I thought you know that then broke the sort of like ice a little bit. So, you know, I wanted to Kyoto, and that was my way of you know, Kyoto. And so, and then I asked four other questions which he responded to.

SPEAKER_04 44:23

And it worked. So that's you know that's the one that I'm talking about, because we all experienced it with you, and uh it was pretty strong, definitely. Uh, did he ever I think did he did they ever start asking you what are you gonna ask him? And like what you know, so he can be prepared or no, never. Right. So he wasn't willing to be prepared for very impertinent questions about our people, really.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

No, he wasn't, and so the the this current prime minister has good advisors and bad advisors, right? And he listens to neither the good advisors nor the bad advisors, which is actually quite funny, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

He just says it, does he?

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Yeah, he's a CEO, you know.

SPEAKER_04 45:13

He wants to announce that he's the CEO, isn't it? Actually, you're the prime minister, yeah. You're not a CEO. Yeah, so that I want to now take you back to a little, well not back, more a little bit softer. We want to talk about your hoe order. How do you care about what what how do you care for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 45:32

You know, that's a really good question that people uh, you know, people our age, pakiki, because I'm older than you are. But you know, so you know, and I I'm really so proud of myself. Yes, I'm proud, yeah. No proud, happy to have reached 65 this year. And I'm gonna get superannuation, and I'm so fucking happy to get superannuation for that.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

You deserve it, you're paid enough tax.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

But it's also because you know, I have had friends, really close, good friends, who haven't reached our age, you know, both Takatapui and non-takatapui Mahdi, who have not reached my age, and I'm so proud to have gotten this this far. And I haven't done anything special um with my whole order, but I've made sure I haven't been too excessive either. Although, you know, I've dabbled in you know, alcohol and drugs and you know, all the rest of it, and you know, but I haven't been too excessive. So I think that that's helped me along the way. But you know, the knees are getting a bit creaky now, and but no really big ho or a thing. But I do try now more than ever to be more mindful of my way to about you know what's triggering me. Um, you know, because what I have found since, you know, since menopause, what I have found is that I am conscious of my anxiety.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

I wasn't conscious of my anxiety pre-menopause, I just thought it was a thing. You know, it was just life and stress and jobs I had, but actually I was living with anxiety. And then menopause um, you know, sort of triggered that even more. But it's only been recently in the last year or so, where I thought, actually, you know, I I must have just lived through it and survived anxiety and now I know what it is. So I'm more mindful of that and where it comes from and why it's coming and what I've eaten, uh what I've been thinking about, you know, whether you know, old messages like you you mentioned earlier, old messaging has is replaying is just upsetting my equilibrium, you know, all of those kinds of things. I'm just more mindful of my white or tundra now and my henning little and being softer and kinder.

SPEAKER_04 48:07

To yourself. Really. And do you go walking? Do you do anything like that? Do you get some air? Do you touch the shoes off, take the grass?

SPEAKER_00 48:18

The joggy, Bobby, and Bobby came from a really good friend, some really good friends of mine, and we go for walks. I took her to the vet yesterday, and the vet says that she's overweight. And I say to the vet, oh, that's because I've been haven't been exercising her, you know. So she gets the same kind, but you know, we don't do the exercise. So, you know, I've got to get out and walk her around a little bit more, and I do have a really great view of the Moana here in Fanganui Atara. So I look at that and I still read a lot. Yeah, you know, real books from the library. They're too expensive. Right now, I don't do Kindle or anything like that. I go to the library and I take out books. I'm reading, you know, case Dr. Case Gar Petter at the moment, Patricia Cornwall, and so I'm reading his series, all of them, and rereading those, you know, just you know, brain fodder really for reading, because my real job is sort of requires focus and attention. So these kind of novels, just real brain fodder, really. I would like to, and I'm very close with my cousins here, so we get out and about and do Maori things, Marai things, hui, AGMs. Yes. You know, that that's really, really cool. I love that. But I do have to say that as I've gotten older, my Takatapu community have dissipated. You know, they ever we all have gone home, gone back to either Marai doing stuff, and very few occasions to get together. You know, very few occasions to get together. So I relish those when we do get together.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

Yeah, that's what gets you to laugh and gets you to enjoy who we are, really, because we are different Takatapu people. And that's what I love about us, really. You know, the more Takatapui you are, the happier I am, you know, uh, even with non-binary. So that's really what balance looks like for you and everything. And I do love that. It's about coming back to being more Māori, really. You always have, but you know, uh the your Fana, your Hapu, your people that you're and your Takatapui people, and it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

You know what I miss most about being immersed in Teo Fu Takatapui is the real is the language that queers use in our own community. You know, I was thinking just this morning before coming on with you that during Takatapui, Honey Edwards, who was the commissioner at Africata Māori, long time queer, long time queer, lifetime queer, you know, was asking about the word mincing and said that we didn't quite get the kupu down, you know, and that's what I had mentioned earlier. We didn't quite get the language right with some of our kupu reel, you know, translating. And one of them was on mincing, the other one was glory hole, you know, we didn't get that word, you know, so it's all the language and the nuances that go with the real that we speak within the community that I really, really miss. And it's the humor and it's the you know, it's the takeoffs and the you know, the spin-offs in the the reading, yeah, that we use amongst ourselves. Yeah, that is very specific to our community. I really miss that.

SPEAKER_04 51:38

Because that's a separate thing about the or too. It's not a translation. I learned that when I was at Māori Television, you can't translate it. The all is more storytelling, you know, and it has to fit a story, you know, what's happening outside, you know, how you're feeling yourself when you're putting your dick into the glory hole, you know. It's a it's a it's a whole it's a whole story, isn't it? That's what's magical about the all, you know, and it's coming back to it as a really special place, I think, when you come back to your deal and that's what gives you strength. But it's actually a part of the you know tree of being Maori. There's Tikanga, there's Hapu, there's Tiril, you know, because Tiril is a tongue where it's our jewel, and you know, we don't have anything blatant in it, like any swear words or anything like that. There isn't even really a thank you, you know, because it's not needed.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Yeah. So so that is I miss that. But I also miss the you know, the vibe, you know, the ahua, just been around lots of queers, you know, because it's just there. And you know, you just in it, and you just you don't have to be anything.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

No, you know, you just have to be yourself, yeah, yeah, and kind, and you'll be yourself, exactly. So this has been really exciting. I'm just love that you've done this, and I know that you're a very, very busy woman. So I'm going to wrap us up. I do this with everybody. It's five quick fire questions. Uh, someone that I know that you both know. She was like, You should ask her this in this quick fire questions. And I said, It will make her laugh. So the first one will be this one. Have you seen a penis?

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Yes. Yeah, I have. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen it.

SPEAKER_04 53:33

Have you touched it?

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Oh, yeah, well, you know, I've had sex with a man.

SPEAKER_04 53:38

Oh, so you're not a goal class.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

Unfortunately, no. I have had heterosexual relationships previous to coming out. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah. So yeah, I've seen Dick.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Yes, I've swallowed sperm.

SPEAKER_04 53:59

And no, just yeah, she doesn't swallow, nor does she make the bead.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

Girl doesn't swallow.

SPEAKER_04 54:09

What would you tell your younger self?

SPEAKER_00 54:16

You know, just do more, just be more. And don't you know, don't be frightened, just go there, do it, be more, and try harder. And be kind, be kind to yourself.

SPEAKER_04 54:31

Was there a moment that shaped everything? Moment in your life that shaped everything.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

No, there were moments that, you know, there were aha moments all along my life journey where I thought, yes, I'm doing the right thing, or I need to be there to assist, contribute, help. There was no one pivotal seminal moment. There were moments.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

What gives you strength today?

SPEAKER_00 55:09

You know, my fano give me strength, my siblings uh have always been people that I have looked up to. They're really strong individuals. We're all very strong, capable individuals. And much of that is because of our mum, because our dad passed away when we were very little, but he had an overwhelming influence on us, still does, even though it's been it's 50 years, he's been past 50 years this year. So, and my mum just passed away in 2025, so uh last year. So, yeah, I get a lot of strength from my farming, and I also get a lot of strength in a you know, in a sort of in a wider way from my daughter, Manoa, who is from Tiara. She's such a little princess. Yeah, she'll be she is loving and she is kind and she is pretty and she is sweet, and she just loves her mummies, her two mummies. And, you know, I get such strength and humour from her rolling her eyes at me and you know, calling me mummy when I've done something that she thinks is peculiar. I'm never wrong, but there are times when I she finds me peculiar, and I think that's sweet and lovely.

SPEAKER_04 56:32

And she's is beautiful, Manuel. I can attest to that. She's the most beautiful thing, isn't she? Because she lives in Oktoroa, doesn't she? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Yeah, she does.

SPEAKER_04 56:42

So what does success feel now like now for you?

SPEAKER_00 56:48

It is many things, and one of them is my daughter being healthy, well, strong, yeah, happy, well, strong, happy, happy, happy, and kind. That's success to me that I've contributed to her life, that she has grown to be her own little unique person.

SPEAKER_04 57:10

And home, what does home mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 57:14

You know, that's really interesting that uh I'm someone that shifts around a lot. So, you know, just in Fuddy, you know, so I might have been, you know, I lived in Tamaki Makoto for all my life until I moved down here to Wellington. But when I was in Tamaki Makoto, apart from this short jaunt in Australia, university, but I've lived in about, you know, 20 different fuddy, 10 of them I owned, you know. So and here in Pornicare, I've lived in five different fuddy, three of them of which I owned. So I'm not sure what home means, but I feel grounded when I'm with people that I love. I'm not sure whether that is what home means to me when I'm in and amongst people, wherever they are. But I I I'm I I maybe that's home for me. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 58:09

That is home for you, yes. Wherever you lay your hat. Because I too lived in lots of different homes. And I think you which wherever I am at the time, that feels like home to me. That's how it's sounding to me. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Could be.

SPEAKER_04 58:24

Thanks for answering all our questions today, Claudette. This has been fantastic. Uh, so much. I've really enjoyed it. I hope you have.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

It was really interesting. Thank you so very much for including me in this what I think is a really important podcast. I mean, this is also seminal because this can be archival for our langa. Yes. Not just our langa phase, actually, for some of the paky care as well, because we have to continue to hear ourselves at our age as well. I think that's really important that while the future is the future, we have to remind ourselves that we have made that future because we had made history. And that's really important. That's this podcast is really important and it's contributed to that too. So, congratulations to you, Donald, for doing this.

SPEAKER_04 59:10

I'm glad that I've done it, really. I've got about sort of seven more interviews to do, an incredible lineup. I'm not gonna share too much, but you probably know personally anyway. Uh, I'm so excited about it. And thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your life with us uh and our viewers. And I'm sure it'll be an inspiration to anybody that's listening. And they're gonna be listening. We're gonna be passing this around, aren't we? Because that's the thing about the internet. You're not bound by uh a television schedule. You know, you can put them on all the social media and you can constantly keep pushing, boosting it, and people get to see it. Get all your friends or Alfano to watch, which I'm excited about.