Takatāpui Talk Donald Hollingsworth our Host interviewed by Claudette Hauiti

For the first time on Takatāpui Talk, the host becomes the guest.

In this deeply personal episode, award-winning journalist and broadcaster Claudette Hauiti turns the microphone on Donald Hollingsworth — internationally recognised hair and makeup artist, salon owner, and creator of Takatāpui Talk.

Together they explore Donald's childhood in Rotorua, growing up Takatāpui, the unconditional love of his father and whānau, and the experiences that shaped a remarkable life and career.

From dressing up in his aunties' clothes as a little boy, to opening his first salon in Sydney, working with international celebrities, navigating grief, loss, heartbreak, and ultimately returning home to create a space where our stories can be shared, this is a conversation about resilience, identity, and belonging.

This episode is filled with laughter, tears, and the memories of the people who helped shape the man Donald is today.

At its heart, this is a story about family, courage, and the power of living an authentic life.

These are the conversations that remind us we have always been here, our stories matter, and our voices deserve to be heard.

Ngā mihi nui to Claudette Hauiti for her generosity, friendship, and thoughtful interviewing.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:29

And now on Takatapu Talk. Tane, a man whose journey has moved from Rutodo to international television, fashion, and storytelling, before returning home here to create spaces spaces grounded in care, identity, and visibility. Donald Hollingsworth has spent decades helping others feel seen. Now it's his turn to share the story behind the stylist, the storyteller, and the creator of Parkhafu Talk. Namihekiakui Donald.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Oh Kyle, Kelda.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Well Donald. For Alfano, who uh discovering you for the first time. Norhe queer, Norway queer, who are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Well, uh Donald Hollingsworth. I I grew up in, well, I was born in Natihine Land, Mortatou, Torwai. Moved home to Rutarua, moved to Rutarua and when I was about two or three. And so I was grew up in Tiarua, Nungataha actually, uh a little suburb of Rutarua. And I lived most of my life there until I went out to the city where we should all go when we are Takatapu. I've always thought we should leave our homes to people that might not understand us and go and meet our own people.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yeah, so going in search of people of Alfano, elsewhere, outside of our boundaries. That's what we do anyway, isn't it? We just go off in search of the big wide world.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

But you actually spent decades helping those other people that you were seeking out and you were helping them through hair, beauty, television, storytelling. Where did that all begin for you?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Well, I would say growing up in Tiara, this is a real, oh Rutarua, this is a real performance space. I saw a lot of performance here, obviously, Kapahaka, theatre. We always had lots happening in Uturu. But then also I would say what really grounded me, learning about image and colour and sewing and putting anything together was definitely my aunties. My mum had five sisters who just adored me. They always told me that I was very special. So I learned so much from them, which then put me into great steed to go on to the work that I did. What also really got me started in the industry was I was 16, maybe 15. No, I was 14, 15. And my father came home and I had just been staying home with my mum, taking care of her, brushing her hair, and making her feel really pretty. And dad said to me, You've got to get a job, son. You've been at home too long. I'm sick of you staying home watching Oprah Winfrey with your mother. And I said, Well, what would I do? And he said, Don't just get a job, son, get a trade. And so I went out and got a, I didn't actually get a trade straight away. I went and uh worked with one of my cousins who was a uh she was the head of uh food and beverage and a hotel in Waka called the International at the time. And I was a kitchen hand. And because of my aunties, they led, they had taught me how to, well, and my mother definitely taught me how to clean and make things look sparkling and bright. And so my the French chef, who was my executive chef, who really liked me as the kitchen hand, and he'd give me these great jobs. Well, extra jobs that a 15-year-old had never had before, doing overnight shifts where I could actually make everything lovely and clean and sparkly, like all the vents and things in the kitchen. This is before things were contracted out. And so for me, I think I was getting $16 an hour to do this late night shift. And that was huge to me. And you know, it was a lot of money. And so my aunties had certainly led me to these skills of being able to care and look after and shape things like that, and cleaning, definitely. Because growing up, I have really fond memories of them because I did have a lot of cousins on my mother's side. I had 65, and I would go and stay with aunties sometimes, and they would say to me, I would run inside going, Oh, Auntie, cousin, and saying this or that, oh, don't worry about him, boy. You come inside and peel the potatoes with me or set the table, or and I would be looking out the window where my cousins would be standing in the rain, and I would be, I would be inside cleaning up and learning how to do home duties. And I was taught how to sew and uh set a table beautifully, and these skills you just didn't even realize what they were instilling in me at such a young age to then go on to kitchen handing. And so I did that kitchen hand job for a while whilst looking after my uh cousins' children. Certainly they might have been three or four, and I used to have a lot of those jobs during the day while my cousins worked during the day, especially during school holidays. And uh I learned how to look after children and grow up with them. And these children that I looked after have since become adults, and they've been married, had weddings, I've gone to their 21sts. So these are the skills that they instilled in me, which I loved. And then hairdressing, finally, I then got a trade, which is obviously hairdressing, and that was in a little salon in Rotarua called Cut and Curl. Now, when I got the job, my I came home and I said to Dad, Dad, I got a trade. And he goes, Oh, that's good, son. What did you get? And I said, I'm a hairdresser. And he was like, Well, that'll take you everywhere. And then it did. So the advice of my dad and my and the skills that my aunties instilled in me really helped me through that earlier part in my life. And I would stand in confidence with knowing how to achieve these things. The someone that I worked at, I really knew how to make it clean. And then I also learned how to talk from my aunties and my father. Communication was huge. So my boss said to me within about a week at Cut and Curl, Johnald, you're going to go really far in this career. And I said, why? And she said, because you've got the gift of the gab. So I thought, wow. And besides hairdressing, and for me, I ultimately thought I was safe in hairdressing too, because I was a very effeminate boy. I had a lot of effeminacy naturally being a 17-year-old, being a teenager. And so when you go into hairdressing, like a lot of other Takatapui people, with we we go into these sort of skills because we're instantly accepted and uh felt safe there in these sort of jobs. That's why we go into fashion or sewing or even theatre and drama because we're instantly accepted.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

No, you raise a really interesting point. If I can take you back to your childhood, stories that Wittihimayra has written, stories that Nahuya Teawekwortoku has written about younger Takatapu Tani, our boys, when they're growing and hanging out around their aunties and their mums and looking at them putting their makeup on and dressing up in their clothes and wearing their high heels. Did you get the sense that you had loved that type of femininity about your mum and aunties when you were a really little age?

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Oh, totally. I have I've written a little story about uh during when I was five, I used to dress up in my sister's clothes, and I used to wear her, she did ballet, and I used to wear her tutu, and I would sit on the front grass waiting for my dad to come home from work, just five, as I said, and he would come home on the forestry bus with a group of Māori men. He was always Lony Park here, and it was always funny. And he got off the bus and he'd be walking around the corner because I could hear the bus, and I'd be making him a daisy chain. I love to make him daisy chains, and I would stand up and I'd run across the road and go, Hi Dad, hi Dad, with this little daisy chain wheeling around. And he'd pick me up in this tutu and say to me, Hello, my son, just to reassure the other men that I was a boy. So I love that part. I also loved the fact that I could wear my mum's mink coat and her big glasses, and I could fit her shoes up until I was probably about seven, and then I couldn't fit them anymore. I was devastated that I couldn't fit her high heels, but I still could fit her clogs, so I could clip-plop out to the so I just wanted to hear the clip-clopping. So I would wear these clip-clop clogs and go out and hang out the washing, and I just loved it. I just felt like I had that little bit of, I was so attracted to it. I didn't know why. It wasn't a questioning of my gender. I just liked that. I just wanted that, and it was it was always an I I was never stopped. Let's say that. Mum would watch me from out in the clothes out of the wash house when I'd be sitting on the ground in my sister's tutu. And my sister wouldn't stop me either, but she'd go, I've got to wear that tomorrow. Can you put it back? And I would do that. But it was never at home where they said to me, You can't do that. Was this when I went to school?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

And then there seems to be a lot of acceptance there by your far night. Absolutely. But it's also a journey that many others can identify with as well, too, from a very little age. You are actually expressing what a lot of other Tani had in their little growing up lives. Did you see any other little boys around that were like you?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yes. When I was five, I met someone exactly like me. Here's Parker. He's actually uh because he'll be watching, or she will be watching, she has become transgender. And we were very similar, very effeminate, screaming, laughing, skipping. And we always we used to play a lot. I'd go around to her, or he was the boy then, around to his house, and we would play Grease. Remember when Grease came out and we would argue who would play Sandy? Because we just wanted to, I just always wanted to be the girl, and so did she or he at that time. And we were so connected. But also the school thing, we only got to spend one year together in classes. I think they wrote notes that we weren't good together in each other's class because I think we were too noisy, we'd talk too much. So we never spent class again together at primary school. We would go on to we'd meet at lunchtime and then would skip home after school. And there was a real bond there, and I absolutely loved it. But it's it's it's an interesting topic about gender. See, I've never thought that I was transgender. I've never thought that at all. I just thought I was different. Whereas my best friend believed that they were, and they are, and they've since become a beautiful transgender woman, but that wasn't me. And I don't know why, because we had the same amount of effeminism, absolutely so effeminate, and we used to love dressing up in girls' clothes. I used to love to play, I would dress up and I would walk into the lounge and I would impersonate different Miss Worlds or Miss Universe and my watch my family watch me impersonate these people. And I'd come out and be like, I'm Miss Barcelona. And then they would sort of my oldest brother would always clap and laugh along, and dad would just look at me. And but they never stopped me, and they never stopped my best friend too, his his family too at that time. We were allowed to be ourselves and weren't questioned just when we went to school. Yeah, interesting about school, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 13:01

So I hear that the acceptance amongst your farmho was absolutely uncompromisingly supportive of you and all your fabulosity, even at such a little age. Did that empower you to continue along your journal journey and think of your creativeness, your spontaneity, your awesomeness as being an absolute gift rather than something that was quite yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah. It wasn't they wouldn't they wouldn't actively say or go and perform, I would just do it. And there would be no question of it. I've always thought there was that when I remember piping up when uh Steve Austen was around, Mr. Bionic Man, the Bionic Man, and I remember he was married to Farah Fawcett, who was in Charlie's Angels, and I just so wanted to be Farah Fawcett. I loved her hair, and I remember watching Steve Austen, all our family were all watching it with me, and I piped up and I said, He's so good looking. And there was a you could hear crickets, but my brother, my oldest brother, always stood up. He was always and he was always like, Oh, yeah, he is hey, bro, yeah. And it wasn't, there was just an air of silence, and then people went on to watch it, but I was me dreaming of being Farah Forsyth because I loved her hair, but I didn't want to be a woman. So I think because I was just allowed to be myself in those situations, especially with my immediate family. Maybe my first cousins, they might have struggled with it, but that's when my aunties would step in and go, Well, come inside with me, boy, and we'll I'll get you to set the table, or you'd do these feejoes with me, or sew these socks with me. So there was a little bit of like for with my first cousins in their defense, they'd never seen anything like me come into their lives. And you just knew everything moved. My legs would always kick in the air, I'd run a particular way. It's just how I was born. It was my God-given voice and it was my way, and it wasn't, you know, they would just be shocked, but then my aunties would always look after me and keep me safe. Not that they'd be violent towards me, it would all be about like, oh, can't look at you. And I didn't know why, but it's just who I was.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

It's the love of your the hair, the clippy clippy-clop of the stilettos that actually allowed you or encouraged you to go into hospitality and then seek a trade in hairdressing. And so you have now become an international doyen on the international stage when it comes to hairdressing and fashion and all of that kind of stuff. When did how was it that you went from Lutarua to Tamaki Makoto and then to Poy Haikana, Sydney? How was that journey for you? And did you deliberately make that move?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Well, when I started getting into hairdressing at that little salon cut and curl, I was there for three years. I did three years of my apprenticeship, and I met a couple of other, I had a couple of other friends, and they took me to Auckland. I think I would have been 17 at this time, and we went to staircase at the time, that club there. And that's when my sister was living in Auckland too, and she had a great flat. And I thought, I need to go to Auckland, especially because when I first went to the gay club, it's quite impactful, and I feel sad for people, Takatapuy of today, because the gay club is where it's like, wow, the music, the drag queens, the and other people like me. I was when I first went, I always remember this when I first went to staircase. I go up to this guy's trying to pick me up, and I thought he was quite good looking. And he took me up to the bar and he said to me, Do you want a Heine? And I was so fresh. I went, No, I'll just have a beer, thanks. Not knowing what Heineken was. That's how fresh I was. But I just loved it so much, and that's what made me want to go back because I thought there are great hairdressers up here as well, and there were leading salons that I wanted to work at, and I had the confidence in my hairdressing because my hairdressing, my boss in Luterua taught me the most incredible basic skill, and I knew from my basic hairdressing skill of perming, colouring, I always knew how to do that sort of stuff and cutting really well. Then I could go and work with the really fancy hairdressers and learn from them. And that's exactly what I did. And then I moved on. I was in Auckland for say three years. I had the best time. Auckland was a wonderful time for me. Tamaki Mikoto was just incredible. Going to the club, going to staircase, meeting friends, lots of flirtations, but then also working in the best salons in Auckland, too, was amazing. And then my sister was living in Sydney, and she I wanted to see a band that I loved called Depeche Mode. And I told her I was going to come over and I was going to have like three weeks' holiday there. And she said, Hey, bro, I'm actually running a salon here. So why don't you come and do have your holidays here and I'll be able to pay you? And I went, Oh my god, that sounds great. So I went over there and I saw Depeche Mode and had the best time with my sister, Penelope, who I just adore. And she uh she gave me a job for three weeks and I just loved it so much. I love Sydney. I met some incredible people in those three weeks, and I thought, I'm gonna come back. So I went back to Tamaki Makoto and I finished my role there at Chigal, and then I moved to Sydney and then went off from there. Sydney for that time in the 90s was an incredible time, and I was there for like 13 years before I came home and pursued a freelance career. But that's what led me there.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

You know, Sydney, because Poihakina, Sydney, in the 90s was a seminal time and pivotal time for Tagatopui, for LGBT, and they didn't have the eye back then. But it was the place to go for Marigra, it was the place to go if you were queer and you were searching and you were looking for your people. So you found a community in Pui Hakina in Sydney, but then going from working three weeks in a salon with your sis to owning your own salon in Sydney, wow, that's the height of competitiveness as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yes. Yeah, Hollings with Hair and Beauty, I think.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Sorry, did you know then how far your career would travel in terms of going from that to ownership?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

No, I actually didn't. No, I I just thought that that was the next step to take. And um I'd learned so much, and I felt like I was ready, definitely. And I had a boyfriend at the time, Rob, and that was securing our relationship a little bit more, too. You bought a business together, he was in fashion. Um, and so yeah, I I brought that. But I actually bought a pre-existing salon, which I always think is the best advice to give somebody. You should always buy something that is already existing. And this hairdresser, he was a gay hairdresser, and it was in the gay ghetto called Surrey Hills. We call it a gay ghetto, and Crown Street, round the corner from the most funkiest groovest places, fashion places that were just Crown Street was an amazing Mecca at that time, and the cafes, and I was opposite a cafe, and I just really started there and really felt like I fit because it was my community too. And I'd already been in Sydney for six years, so I'd already built up a lot of clients. And calling it Hollingsworth was really special. I've got another story about my dad when he first came over when I first bought the salon, and he came in to sorry, he came in by he came by himself, he was staying for a couple of weeks and he came to the salon and I was working. He goes, Oh, well, I I was working. I said, I'll be finished in about an hour, Dad. He goes, Oh, I'll go and have a little look around. Okay. So he went up to Darlinghurst Road or Oxford Street actually, and walked into a place. And when he came back at about 15 minutes, and I was like, gosh, dad, and he stood there, he looked a bit shocked, and I said, Are you You're right. And he goes, Hey, I went up to a place, because Dad was a builder. I went up to a place called the Tool Shed. And I thought they might have had a spanner in there. Oh, you went there. Yeah, I went and then I walked in there and I had a look around. I said, What was there, Dad? He said, Nothing but big black dicks. Oh, Dad, that's what that was. And I couldn't stop laughing. And I said, You might need, you want me to make you a coffee? You need to sit down. So he was, but that was my father's humor. He wasn't really that shocked. He knew where he was. And then I have such wonderful memories of my dad. And then I and then because I'm taking an incredibly straight man that grew up in Melbourne that was there to be with his son. And he loved the fact that I called my business Hollingsworth. In that time, because as I said, he was a builder and a really brilliant cabinet maker. He made a sign out of wood. That's why he was going up to the tool shed, thinking that he'd be able to get equipment for the sign he was going to make. And he made a Hollingsworth in letters and he made it look like Hollywood, the sign. And then he put it up on my roof and he put this light behind it. And so it looked like the Hollywood sign, but it said Hollingsworth. And I was like, oh dad, I just love that. And I remember he calling me at work and he said to me, I'll meet you, I'll meet you at this pub around the corner from me, from my work. And I said, Okay, Dad, we'll get there. And I walked into this pub and he was sitting up at the bar because he loved to just sort of go and sit in a bar and talk to whoever was there. And I said to him, Dad, tonight I'm gonna, after tea, I'll take you to a pool comp. And he went, Oh, because dad loved pool. He was also a pool shark, and I knew he played really well. And it was at the Oxford Hotel, which is a gay bar. We walk in there. Now, my father was such a pool shark that he, if he wanted you to play, he would play with you. Or if he wanted the money, which was $150, he wouldn't play with you. He would just clear the table. So he cleared the table three times, and these queens were coming up to me and they're going, Oh, who's your daddy? And I was like, It is my dad, don't they laughing? They're like, Oh my god, he's such a player. And then I said, and dad would say to me, Oh, these boys, they talk a little bit like you do. Oh, Dad, you know where you are. Anyway, just make us the money and can get us some more beers. And he said, No, that beer's money's for me for next for this week that I'm here with you. I mean, okay, I'm going to take you to another one then. So I took him to the Beresford Hotel and he let this guy there because he quite liked him. He was a bit of an older, he was a bear, actually. He was a bit of an older gay guy, and he let him have a few goes, and then he just cleared the table. And I have such fond memories at that time with my father, besides my life. And what I loved was that I was living there, having a great time, and that he could come over and sort of see how I lived. And he was fine with it. And he still had that sense of humor. And I believe I have a sense of humour because of my dad. And that that that was really wonderful. My mother thought exactly differently to dad, but he he was brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

So that that space in Sydney and Poe Hiking at that time, do you feel that it was better to be queer and out in Sydney than what than what it was to be queer and out in Tamaki Makoto or do to do at that time?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

I always say I didn't have any choice, you know what I mean, because I was very effeminate. And so I stood in, I learned to stand in my own shoes. So I never started to talk like somebody else. While I was uh when I was sort of when I started at intermediate, I developed a terrible stutter because that was being questioned for the way that I spoke. So then I started with a speech therapist and learned how to speak more clearly, and that gave me strength to stand in my shoes too. And then obviously I went through puberty and my voice got a lot deeper. But that's also connected to that period too. I learned how to speak confidently, I learned how to stand in my own two shoes. I think I didn't really experience a lot of homophobia because everybody knew and I never made any secret of it. I never I've never been cogited. I'm really lucky that I haven't been because I've never really cared, to tell the truth, what anybody thought. Because they are God's gifts, and we have to appreciate them that we are given them. And I believe we are brought into Fano with these gifts and our friends that we have, and they should be embraced, not suppressed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Natural progression then that you go from working in a salon to extending the skills into television and other media arena.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

How did you move, how did you how did you transition into television and what prompted you to get into that world?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Well, when I moved home in 2002, the reason why I moved home in 2002 is that I had a lot of trauma that I really needed to deal with. That's quite was quite a dark period for me when I was a child. I'll just touch on it very lightly because I think people will understand this. There was uh there was a bit of sexual abuse when I was eight. I was groomed till I was 10. I've had a lot of therapy for it. So I wanted to come home to clear up my nervous system with that period when I was a child. It certainly did slow me down. How it slowed me down was my relationships with people. And I wanted to, I wanted to find out why I was so angry and upset. And I do believe it was linked to that. And then I moved, that's one of the that was probably the main reason why I moved home. I also thought that I'd acquired lots of incredible skill in Sydney. And New Zealand at the time, though, at the time had an incredible moment with fashion. And I'd already done a lot of Australian Fashion Weeks and stuff like that. And I'd also had a little, I had had a little bit of work published in Australian Vogue and these sort of magazines and Harper's Bazaar. So I had a portfolio. So I thought I will come home and I will look after myself. I'll seek therapy and work through this process. And in the meantime, I will take my portfolio around to photographers, modeling agencies, these sort of people, and develop a freelance career in fashion. And I just got really big because I really believed in myself. I also did a lot of free jobs because you have to. I did lots of, you know, I worked with the best fashion designers, like Karen Walker. And then I used to work alongside with her husband. Uh, his name was uh Michael German, and he worked at a an advertising agency called Publicist Mojo, and I used to do all the commercials for Glassens, Hallenstein's. And so when you reach commercial uh part in your life where you're doing TV commercials, the uh you're pretty much up there. You're getting the best rate, you're getting really hot. And I learned so much from them. And that freelance career then led me on to television. Uh do you remember Annie Waka? She used to be the CEO of Māori Television, and she uh was my client. I used to do her hair at a hairdressing salon in Auckland because I had a part-time job in a salon, because I could always go back to hairdressing. And when freelance work died away on off season, and I talked to her a lot because I used to watch Māori television a little bit and I was like, oh, I could really help here with my skills. And I thought beyond hair and makeup, I thought about the whole image of it. And I thought that from the skills that I developed over time, I could take the whole package me to something like that. And she set up an interview with a couple of people that worked there, and I just sold myself. And they said, come back with a budget, tell us how much this is going to cost our newsroom, and you could move into other productions. So I came back with a budget, they signed up, and then I went from being Takatapui or being gay at that time to becoming, I believe, more Takatapu. And that's when I really focused, I learned about who I was as someone that was Māori. My time at Māori television was an incredible time to learn how to be myself as a Māori man, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Name names. You have worked with some of the top stars from around the world and celebs from around the world. Now is the time to name names. Of course, you couldn't talk about them while you were doing money with them. Totally understand that, but now spell the beans, spell the beans, who have you done?

SPEAKER_01 31:04

So I the first, so when I was living in Sydney, I had a couple of clients that were AR managers. And so that's artists and recreation, I think. And they would artists would come through, and the first person that I looked after was a little boy named Aaron Carter. And his brother was in the Backstreet Boys, he was eight then, and we got on really well. And I did like photo shoots with him, and we did a music video, and he's I know they introduced me and he said to me, I'm gonna go home and tell all my friends about you. I then said, Oh, you're so sweet, what a cute little boy. And then he went home and he did. He told Britney Spears' company about I didn't work with Britney, but I worked with her dancers, uh, Christina Aguilera. She was like 19 at the time, she was a child. And then he sent Nick to me, or Nick Carter, from the Backstreet Boys, and I went on a little tour with them around the world, which was pretty exciting at the time. I knew I'd really made it then. And the reason why I got that, oh sorry, why I ended up doing the tour with them was because of the other makeup artist who was gay as I was. We were gay men at the time. His campus were over tense, and he was like, Oh, girl, I'm gonna take you on this tour with me. You're fabulous. And I was like, Oh, thanks. But I didn't realize that I was gonna go on the tour with them. And the next day my agent called me and said, Oh, you've got a flight this afternoon, you've got to get up to New York really quickly. And I went, What am I doing? And she said, Oh, you're going about the Backstreet Boys. I went, Oh my gosh. So I went on with and we I had the best time with them. They had a plane by the Sultan of Brunei, so it was very luxurious. Three bedrooms and 18 first-class seats. We had two chefs. Uh, and me and the other, his name was Scott Miller, the makeup artist. We got on like a house on fire. We would dress up, put towels on, we'd do numbers for the boys as we were traveling to Russia and stuff like that. And that's so I did that work. And so then I had a little, and then also the obviously the fashion week stuff. So I had a little bit of collection of famous people that I'd worked with, and that how and so then you come home and then you tell people like Karen Walker the people that you've worked with, and she then has people like Liv Tyler's best mate as a photographer. He she said to him, I'm going back to New Zealand. I need, I don't need a movie makeup artist, I need someone to do me four premiers and and he rang Karen. Karen then goes, Oh, I know this guy that works for us. He got my number. I'm doing a TV commercial for Glassons. I get a phone call in the middle of the shoot. I answer it, it's a foreign number. I'm Kioto Donald here. And I said, Oh, hi, in a very American accent. I'm not gonna act like them. And she published this for Liv Tyler. Would you be interested in doing this weekend with her when she comes down for the premiere of these movies? I paused a bit and then I went, Oh, I'm gonna make myself sound really fancy. And then I said, Can I get back to you? I've just got to check my diary. Of course, Donald, thank you so much for even considering us. And so I hung up and then I screamed. And then I went up to the director and I said, Oh my god, I've just got a job with Liv Tyler. And so I'm just a bit worried about this Hallenstein's commercial in the weekend. He goes, Don't worry about it, it's fine. And that was Mickey Magasiva. Uh and that he was a direct beautiful, he was wonderful. Don't worry about it, Donald. And so I then worked with Liv. We got on like a house on fire. Liv then goes home. This is the power of word of mouth. This is basically what I'm talking about. She then went after I finished that tour with her for Lord of the Rings premiere of what is it? Return of the King. And when she went back to the uh States, and her publicist was also very gay, and he was fabulous. We had Ground like a house on fire. He went back to the States and said, I'm gonna tell my clients about you. He then told uh Gwyneth Paltrow about me, and she came out here to do Sylvia, that film about the poet, Sylvia Plith, is it? And she Sylvia Plath Plath, that's it. She then called me herself, got her phone number, and I was I didn't know who I was talking to. And then I realized it was her, and she just had a photo shoot had come up and she wanted me to do it for the photo shoot and also for this movie. Sorry, not the movie for uh premiers, because that's not what I did. I didn't do movie makeup artistry. That's not the work that I do, and I would never say that I could do that sort of work because it'd be lying. I didn't have that much confidence. And here's the my colleagues, and these are people that have worked really hard to get into film, and he wasn't that person, and I really appreciated that. But I used to work with them on TV commercials, but the skill that they have and the kits they have, they start at like $10,000. So I wasn't going to do that. And then Māori television, all the incredibly famous Mori people that I really learned from too, besides those really very sort of famous people. Oh, I did get to cut Bill Clinton's hair once when he was fabulous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Well, he had hair there.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, when he had hair there.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

He did have hair. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

That year 2000, that was a big year for me. That's when I met the Backstreet Boys, that's when I worked with Christina Aguilera, that's when I cut Bill Clinton's hair, so it was pretty big.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah. Look, I know it's a very 1970s, 1980s question, but I'm gonna give it to you anyway, because it's a question that all creators get asked. Are you creative because you're taketapwe Mahdi? Does it how does it inform your creativity? Or uh is that a misnomer? Is it not an influence? Do you see yourself as a Takatapu Kane creator or a creative who is Takatapu carnaire?

SPEAKER_01 37:07

No, I see myself as definitely Takatapu creative. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

What's the difference to you?

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Well, it's who I am, so it just sort of exudes anything that I've ever wanted to do. And if anything is creative or it's what I've always wanted, and I'm like, well, I'm going to do that, I'm going to learn how to do it, and I'm just going to do it. And I'm going to stand in my own because I've always wanted to do these sort of things. So it's it's an example. I always wanted to work in a really famous salon in Auckland called Shigal at the time. It was always number one salon. My boss, Gerald Solomon, and he interviewed me three times. It took him the third go to actually high, but I really wanted to work there because I wanted to learn off those sort of hairdressers. So those really famous and very skilled hairdressers at the time. And I think because I was Takotapu, it gave me the drive to want to go and work there because I thought my colour and who I was would offer something to them. Yeah. And I was always willing to do anything too, Claudette. When I travel with photographers and stuff like that, I didn't care about sharing a room or sleeping on the floor or taking a flight that took 18 hours to get there. I never cared. Because being brought up Māori, you you're so adaptable. And we're just allow ourselves, well, that's my, I've got to do that. That's why I say Takatapui first, Takatapui Creative, because it was my my or Tikangan, the way that I was brought up that skilled me enough to go off and do this work that I've done. And I I always thought to myself, she Liv Tyler rang me and asked me to go. So of course I wasn't nervous because they asked me to go. I wasn't fans of the Backstreet Boys, but they asked me to go. And then this makeup artist was like, You've got to come, I'm gonna get you this job. So we really stand in our own feet because they're asking you. So don't be nervous about it because your nerves can really take over. Although, if it was Madonna, I'd probably really struggle.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

You spend all that time overseas, traveling, career success, you return home, you establish my salon. Obviously, beauty care presentation, it's really important to you culturally and emotionally. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Because it's how I was brought up with my aunties, definitely, and watching the transformation that it can do to people, because it's also, I believe, one of the last bastions of care or hoe order that you can do on yourself now because everything is so expensive. And hairdressing is like, oh, I at least I can get my haircut. It's instant gratification. And you're not just sitting with me getting a haircut or a colour or and the experience that I can give you. It's also I love to have a chat going back to when I was 17 and I was told that I've got the gift of the gab. That's also gotten me through, too, because I do love to have a chat with people, and I'm genuinely interested in people and what they have to say and think about things. Yeah, so my salon has been quite magical for me, actually. I've got to work with the most, I've had the most beautiful Māori wahine sit in my chair and incredible people, and I've just loved it. And making them over. And even when a lot of people found out that I had come home from people that I'd met at Māori television, producers, presenters, they all they just started coming and would come down, they'd always make a trip to Tiaru or to Urua, because it's such a famous place. I'm like, well, I'm just driving through Donald, so I'll come and have a haircut with you. And can you do my colour? And that's really quite magical. And that's what I also love about it. So and it's what I love about working with Wahini Māori. And that's also why I called it Mai, because Mai is a connecting word, and it's still it what it was important for me that I am, because I am pro-Mādi, and that's what was also really important to me. I had Medepeka Lokawa Tate come in and she said to me at my opening, Oh, you don't, you know, you want the park here to come too. And I says, Oh no, they'll come. They come. I promise you they'll come. But Māori women, unless they know there is a place special for them and somebody that has actually said, Hey, I'm Māori and I'm really happy to look after you, they'll come. And that's what I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

When I just take a step back into the world of TV, you have worked behind the cameras, putting people in front of the cameras to make them look good, but you actually did host a program yourself. Did you find that it was very different in terms of the portrayal of Takotape front and back of the camera? Is it the same? Is it different? Was there any did you feel that there was any exploitation in terms of the portrayal of Takata Pui front of camera?

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Um Well, again, it was fulfilling dreams, things that I've always liked to do. And even when I was a little boy, I used to love to dress up like a presenter and I used to love to parrot the news. So that was just fulfilling a dream, really, to go off and be a presenter and I would just audition and get the job. I never felt like I was being Yeah, I never felt like I was being missed, I was always paid well. I never felt like I was being uh what did you say? Sorry, but uh not betrayed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

I didn't think I was I was wondering because the program that you hosted is about the positivity of Takata Pui.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Did you feel that it was essential because the portrayal of Takatapui Kani, even Maori Khapua, can be hugely exploitative?

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Yeah, I never experienced any of that. I never saw any of that. I felt like I was living my dream. Yeah, doing something that I'd always wanted to do. And that that also links back to my childhood too. I knew I could speak clearly from having allocution lessons, and I had lots of practice. I'd also done a bit of radio. So I'd already had a I was on the edge for a while with JJ Dom and Mike for a couple of years, and I did something called Queer Eye for the Donald Straight Guy. No, Donald Eye for the Kiwi Straight guy. I mean, I'd just make over guys. And just hassle them. I'd pick them up and take them to super I'd take them to malls and do them up and they'd call me every sort of hour to see how the makeover was going. And I'd I'd make them have tattoos that they didn't really want. No, and and I really enjoyed it. So I felt like perhaps being Takatapu or being gay, I was exploiting them.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Absolutely. Positivity, you you returned home.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

What does home mean to you back here in North? It means it means a lot now. It means a lot now. I really struggled coming home to tell the truth. And because I've been home now from Sydney for eight years. And certainly I have opened my salon in that time. And I've had wonderful people coming here. But aside from that, personally, I lost my sister, I lost my mum, and that had been a real struggle. And so I've only just started to find out who I am myself personally. I've been incredibly hurt and incredibly not lonely, just really hurt, especially because they both went at not far from each other. My sister within two months of my mother passing. And that that was really difficult. I also learned how much my mother had not control, how much power she still sort of had over me from being a young boy. And you came home at 50. And I still felt like she had a strong power over me, I suppose. And I didn't know any other way to move on from it because she was my mum. And I'm not in any way speaking ill of her because she was my mum, she's all I had, and I love her dearly and miss her, but I didn't miss that power that she had over me and my emotions and how I felt about myself. And then my sister, I just adored her. I spoke about her in the beginning where she gave me a job and took me to my first gay nightclub. And I had a real and I wanted to be her. I was wearing her tutu when I was five. And I would look at myself, and I seriously, I really wanted to be her, and I just loved being with her. And when she passed, that longing that she was gone was really, it was hard, Claudia. It was really hard. So it has been-I don't even like using that word journey because it's like it's been it's been been really challenging. And then I got quite sick, I had heart failure, and I really struggled. And then I thought my oldest brother, Charlie, who I absolutely adore. I thought he's all I've got. And so I'm going to, and I've also got his kids too. He's got beautiful children that are all adults now, and I totally adore his children. And I thought, I've got them, I'm always going to have them, and so I'm going to get better, look after myself, and uh so that I can love them for the rest of my life. And that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Wonderful. Well, you you mentioned your health, and you've had to make huge lifestyle changes. What has that experience taught you?

SPEAKER_01 47:14

It's taught me so because it was heart failure, it has taught me that your heart's really important. And uh my heart, besides being genetic, it was also because my grandmother passed of it. I have a first cousin that has it. Not my mum, though, or my father, but there is other immediate family that have suffered from it. And I wanted to get well. So medication is not all of it. Unfortunately, I have to take medication for the rest of my life. But I thought there's another way that I can look after myself. And I thought, well, I do need to lose weight. So I started fasting, eating whole foods. But the main thing that I did, which has created a huge change in me, is giving up sugar. Refined sugar is an incredible poison that I can't advocate enough. Just give up the sugar. Lived on sugar my whole life. Sweet drinks, lemonade, energy drinks when I was feeling flat, because the life of a hairdresser, we really take it takes a toll on your body, the physical, mental, and emotional work that you have to do to hairdressing. And so I'm really happy that I've done this. And it started to work. How I've noticed these changes, obviously, my clothes are fitting me a little bit better. And I developed an arthritis, which is quite normal for hairdressers. And my fingers used to lock, but they don't anymore. And I used to take, yeah, and I think that's no, I don't think. I believe it's giving up the sugar and how it can really affect your hands, your joints, everything. And I'm in a lot less pain than I used to be before. And I'm really grateful for this change because, and I'm really grateful that I'm also working, I'm sticking to it because I can see its true benefits. Once you've gotten over sugar, and that's quite a horrible period. It took me about two weeks. I had terrible headaches, but I can't say to people enough, give up sugar, because it's incredible what it does to you.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

We're on the podcast, Tugat Half We Talk. You are the creator of Tugat Half We Talk. Did you feel that there was something missing from Altid or NZ Media that you wanted to create space for?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

I did. I totally did. Yep. And of course, I'm starting from scratch, so I'm just building it and building it, developing the audience all the time, getting out on social media. There is a lot of work to do with it. And I just sharing my story, when you put it all in it to a summary, it's like we live incredible lives and we allow ourselves to live incredible lives. And we make it being Takatapui, we have we people love us and our fano that we create. And I I wanted I wanted to share these stories. And I've got some incredible interviews that I've already done. And one of them is you. And so we to share our lives with others. Say Langatahi, for example, they're like, well, you're like me, because our stories are pretty similar. They are very similar, but they're also really great. And they're emotional and they're uh hard to listen to. But then they in the end, there's incredible light that comes through our people and how what we what we can offer our, I know, our communities, our papa too, what we what we've what we've got is um really important and sharing them. And I thought I'm just gonna share stories from people that I know that have done an incredible, have led great lives, and they can share them and gives people an understanding of how great we are.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yeah, look, resilience, evocative, thought-provoking, strong, mana-enhancing, that's what I'm hearing from these interviews. Did you what else did well is that what you learned about our community and more, I guess? And during the interviews, what were the moments that moved you most deeply?

SPEAKER_01 51:30

The similarities, especially as a child, uh, when we talk about people taking advantage of us, uh, it tended to happen when we were children or teenagers. Um, so that's where for me, that's where the emotion would come up because the similarities were so the same. I interviewed a young playwright, his name is Rodetti Ormond from Wellington, and he is only 24, and he lived a beautiful childhood in Japan. His father was a rugby player. I won't say too much more about, but what he said to me was I'm so interested in doing this interview with you, Donald, but I want to learn from you, Takatapui Tanga, because you've lived this life that I haven't lived. And so I've got a lot to share about my playwriting, but I haven't lived your life. And then I thought, yeah, so that's what the messages really should be about. More people like my demographic, a little bit older. And so that's why I went down that road because I knew that our stories being similar, but they would also relate. That's where I'm getting at. People would relate to it and feel relieved and not maybe even feel alone too, especially in some of the little towns that we have. Everybody's got a device. There's incredible power on Facebook and TikTok. TikTok has just blown me away with the little shorts that I've been putting up on it. And so many people, what I'm seeing from all the comments is people relate. Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

It's an evolving thing, isn't it? Takeatapu, Takatapue. So with that in mind, and given the technology now, do you see Takatapui meaning something different today? Even though you had raised all these similarities of upbringings. Has it evolved though? It doesn't mean something more different today than it did in our time. Well, I think Well, when we were younger, because we're still alive.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

So we had fabulous places to go to. We had clubs, we had groups, we had and they are in this very unfortunately small world of apps and devices and pickup places. We would dress up and go to the club and meet other men and dance with them and put a lovely aftershave on and wear all our most fabulous things that we could ever wear. They don't have that same opportunity. That's what's really missing. Our social lives have become and we need to be social. We need to not be so insular. It's really important. And we need to dance and just be free and enjoy and laugh. That's not, I think that's what's missing from a lot of our a lot of our uh young Takatapui today. And I feel for them. The social places that they just don't have, the places where you could feel safe, especially in Altiro, a lot of them have disappeared, have gone now, and they're not you're not being serviced. I've spent a little bit of time on Grindr and they just have a shower at their house and come around in their track clothes. Because that's what you're doing, you're just hooking up. But the process of getting to hook up with them, you might not hook up with them. You might just go and have a chat and just enjoy someone else's company. It's not like that now.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

What kind of legacy do you hope Takata Pui talk has, will have, and remains for our Fano, our Hapuri Takatapui?

SPEAKER_01 55:17

A place where they can come to because it'll be archival. It'll always be available where they can come to, and other people might tell them about the interviews, and they'll always be available for relatability and understanding and connection. Yeah. I'm really glad I've done it. Like it's a great project that I'm so enjoying. And now that the platform is truly working on Facebook, on Instagram, and TikTok shorts, I'm like, because of the response, I know I'm doing it, but I always believed in it too, actually. I always did believe in it. I knew that we have incredible corridor to share. So yeah, that's what I think about that.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

There's a quick fire around for you. A quick fire, fast by one word, one koo your friends would use to describe you.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

And clumsy. Because I'd fall over, like I just would fall, you'd walk too quickly, or you know, I'll tell you a quick little story about Liv Tyler, and she was with beautiful, oh, she he was Katy Perry's boy. He was an elf in uh Lord of the Rings. Oh, that English guy remembering later. Anyway, so I went into the press junket. I'd already done her makeup, I had my kit, and I looked at that actor, and I just somehow tripped on him up on nothing. I don't know what was there. My makeup kept flew in the air, everything crashed on the ground, and he came over and helped me to uh clean it all up. And Liv just giggled. She thought it was quite funny. And the first thing I noticed was the scrotch as I was on the ground. Do you know who I'm talking about? He was an elf on uh Lord of the Rings.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

He's the one with the white hair with the big ears. No, that was her brother. Oh, with the big pointer ears. Yeah, big pointer ears. Yeah, that was her brother.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

Yeah, it was her brother, yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

You know, her tone was uh the New Zealand guy, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Um, I can't even remember.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

And he's just he just he oh a lot. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

People will be looking at this going, oh, it's this guy, it's this guy, but this is what happens when you're uh more senior now. So they would people have described me that way, and there are people that are out there watching this that will be laughing, going, Oh, you don't know that Tor Māori fella, he's really clumsy. Yeah. I'm every woman, Whitney Houston and Shaka Khan, both versions.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

Ligus lesson from 40 years in the hair industry.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

You're gonna be great. That's what I yeah. I was told that from the beginning and I was told that all along through my training, that I was always going to be great. Yeah, and that's what I think about that.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

Well, that's a great lesson for everybody, isn't it? What still excites you creatively?

SPEAKER_01 58:23

I was pretty excited about when you called me and said I should interview you. And I thought that that was it really exciting, seriously, but the Mahi that you do and and who you are, and and and as a journalist, and and and you've led the way yourself. And I thought that was incredibly creative, and I loved that you wanted to do this, and I still think it's a gift. That's I that's what I get excited about, watching my friends and people that I know uh be creative.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

Because it's creative interviewing people, you absolutely look what gives you hope right now in terms of our Takotapui community, and because I'm a political journalist and I've got to throw it all in. There's the transgender bill, the definition of what is a woman bill in front of parliament at the moment, the attacks on our Takotapu community, our transgender in sports, there's so much that's is stripping away our rights as human beings, as takethapui. What gives you hope right now?

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Well, I've been saying this in my shorts. We've always been here, we're always going to be here, and we're incredible people, and let's just focus on our community because that's all that matters. Everything else is just noise. Don't get involved in it, don't listen to it. Listen to the people that love you because it really doesn't matter. Because I truly believe that we will still be able to go to the bathroom and that no one is going to stop us, and that nothing is going to be taken away from us. And don't live in fear. There is no fear, it's just the way that they uh say things about us. None of it is true.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

Yes, this coalition government too shall pass. Donald, final question. After everything you've lived through, you've created and you have survived, what do you know for sure?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

That I'm gonna be okay. Yeah, that we're all going to be okay, that we're going to be okay. This will pass.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:18

Tonight we've heard about the identity, the creativity, the survival, the beauty, the beauty, the storytelling, and what it means to return home back to the Hokanga, carrying all the versions of yourself with grace. Donald Hollingsworth's journey reminds us that visibility is more than just being seen. It's about creating space so others can stand proudly too. From the salon chair to television screens and now through Takatapu talk, his Ko Papa has remained the same. People deserve to feel valued, heard, and beautiful as themselves. Nareda Donut Tenarawa to Kwet Mutu Hakapuaki or Fukaro or Ma Haratana Mitu Man Manawa Kiyamato Itianaku.