Vineet Khanna: Why Supply Chain Leaders Will Run the Future of Business

What if the future of business leadership… doesn’t come from the boardroom—but from supply chain?

In this episode of The Momentum Flow, Luis sits down with Vineet Khanna, former Global Head of Supply Chain at Nestlé, to unpack how leadership, technology, and strategy are converging to reshape global business.

With nearly 4 decades of experience leading complex global operations, Vineet brings a rare perspective across transformation, AI, and enterprise leadership. 

In this conversation, we break down:

1.  The 4 flows that run every business (and why most leaders miss them) 
2.  Why supply chain is becoming a co-pilot to the CEO
3.  The difference between real AI impact vs. hype
4.  How to lead transformation that actually delivers results 
5.  A new definition of sustainability: can your business still run in 20 years?

The big idea?

Supply chain isn’t just operations anymore.
 It’s becoming the center of decision-making, resilience, and growth.

If you’re a founder, operator, or investor, this episode will change how you see business.

Subscribe for more insights on leadership, innovation, and exponential growth.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:45

So this conversation seek related intersection of global operations, leadership, technology, and purpose. Beneath Canada has spent nearly four decades inside some of the most complex supply chains on the planet, culminating a ZVP and global head of supply chain at Mestley, the world's largest food beverage company operating across 186 countries and thousands of brands. What makes Vinny's trajectory especially compelling is not just scale, but scope, supply chain, procurement, finance, digital transformation, sustainability, and board-level governance. Today, through Adventure Advisory, he's helping companies and founders translate strategy and execution at speed. Vinit, welcome to the Momentum Flow. Happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Thank you, Lewis. Thank you for the opportunity. Very happy to join you. And good day to all the people who are joining this podcast. Maybe allow me to state the goal as we start is that I'd like this conversation to be of some value to people who are listening to this in terms of their career, their profession. So my learnings and my advice hopefully gives them some food for thought and some material for them for being more successful. That's the objective that I have for this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

I think that's perfect, Vene. Thanks for clarifying that. And you have quite a journey, right? So let me just get going. What keeps your momentum going all along?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Well, um, maybe I should talk about my career to begin with, just to describe um how it has been and what keeps me going as you're asking me. Um I think I have had a very privileged career, very lucky, I would say, to be honest. And allow me to describe maybe four dimensions of it. I've had a multifunctional career. I began in a factory, then I moved to finance, then I moved to sales, and then I moved to technology before coming into operations and supply chain. So a lot of multifunctional exposure. Second, I would say, Luis, multicultural. I had the fortune of working in the entire EPEC region, then European region where the Nestle headquarters are, and of course, working with the Americas. So very multicultural experience of different business contexts and different countries, I would say. Also multi-level. I began at a factory level at the at this as a management trainee. And through different levels, I have done work uh roles at the country level, at the region level, and then what is called zone in Nestlé, and then the global role. And each of these roles gave me a very different lens on execution, on strategy, on people and technology. And that's a that's a very fortunate uh career journey. And and last, I would say multiple business contexts, Louis. I've worked in loss making businesses, I have worked in high-growth businesses, uh, worked in a lot of crisis situations as well. So a very rich career along all these dimensions. And and the takeaway for me for that, Luis, is that whenever I see a business situation, I apply multiple lenses to it along the lines that I've described to you. And that would be my recommendation to the business leaders is not to operate from one lens. You need to deliberately shift your lens sometimes from the angle of execution, sometimes from the angle of culture, sometimes from the angle of strategy, apply a financial lens, apply a strategy lens. And deliberate shifting of that lens is very important for people to be an effective uh business leader. That's that's me being my experience. Now you're asking me what keeps me going. That's an interesting question. Um, I think what keeps me going is that I'm very passionate about um how things can be improved. And my lens always has been how can we have a step change in performance? How can we bring about significant uh improvement in the completely different level of performance? Sometimes when I go to the airport, um, I start telling my wife that if I were running the airport, this is how I would do it because I am always about how it can be improved. And she tells me to relax, she's been on a holiday, you're not talking about how the airports can be improved. But that's my lens in life that how can we enhance performance? And I'm very passionate about transformation, therefore. That keeps me going, and I've always been um eager to learn a lot more. And that brings me to the advice which I want to bring to the business leaders as well is that you need to find a source of energy for yourself, and you need to find a source of energy that keeps you going in difficult situations and in the face of obstacles, and nurture that source of energy, whatever that source of energy for you is. So it businesses, you know, we're often asked to make sure that we can motivate teams and we can inspire teams and we can energize them. But you cannot give what you don't have, so you have to make sure that you yourself are highly energized and you're highly motivated. That's when you can motivate and inspire people, otherwise, you can't. Uh so that's what I think has kept me going and learning, curiosity and learning. Like I'm learning a lot more about AI these days. That that keeps me very young, so to say, despite me being old in terms of age. Uh, that's what keeps me going.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Age is subjective in it, as you and I know. So you know, that's a that's a fantastic career. I think the multi-lens approach that you recommend, I think is a savvy, is a savvy advice for people. Now, let's go a little bit, let's go to the foundations of our of our journey, right? We both came up through systems as operators. Uh, we've seen that same system from very different altitudes over our careers. Now, uh, we both, as I said, deeply embedded in execution to begin, but over time, I move a little bit more towards investing and scaling growth, but you definitely expand into global enterprise leadership and the boardroom. How do how do your definition of great supply chain leadership change as your scope change? Does it change?

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah. Well, I hope you don't mind if I'm a bit provocative. Um I think the in the industry, the understanding of the scope of supply chain, the impact of supply chain, what is the role and contribution of supply chain is not understood very well, even at the senior level. I have often seen that even senior level perceived supply chain sometimes through the physical lens, which is the physical movement of goods, transportation and logistics. And sometimes they see it through the lens of crisis that okay, there's a problem, there's a disruption, and you manage that. I think that's a very, very limiting lens of looking at supply chain. I I always ask supply chain leaders and business leaders to be very bold about defining what is the scope of supply chain. So I normally talk about it in terms of in terms of uh reframe the role, you reposition the role, and you redesign your role. Let me describe what do I mean by that. In my view, supply chain, uh Luis is managing four different flows. One is the physical flow, which I mentioned. Second is the flow of information and intelligence. For example, demand forecasting, understanding what's happening out there is the flow of information and intelligence. The third flow is the flow of cash, and the fourth flow is the flow of capital. The capital that you invest in the business, you and your business partners, you have to look at the total capital deployed in the business. So supply chain guys are managing four different flows simultaneously with with six business outcomes which are impacted. One is the growth of the business, second is the profitability, third is the capital efficiency, fourth is resilience, fifth is agility, and sixth is sustainability. So there are six business outcomes in which supply chain plays a very decisive role in influencing these six business outcomes. And all of them are business outcomes, Louis. They're not supply chain outcomes, they're business outcomes. That's what I mean by reframing the role. Sorry, when I talk about repositioning the role, what I mean is that reposition the role as genuinely focused on consumers and customers, day in, day out. We speak the language of business, not the language of KPI, the language of business, the market share, the financial performance, the e-bit. So reposition supply chain along these lines. And third is when I say uh sort of redesign, truly become the orchestrator because that's the DNA of the supply chain role. And I often tell people a bit provocatively that stop this conversation about a seat at the table, have the conversation about leading the table. And by leading, I do not mean becoming the boss. Leading means to become the owner. That's what the orchestration is all about. That's what is the DNA of supply chain. So, this this definition of uh reframing, sort of repositioning and re-redesigning the role is what I think is the evolving definition of supply chain leadership. That's how I would see it. And I'm very excited about what role supply chain can and will play in the business uh in the years ahead. I think time has come for supply chain to shine.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I I I love your definition, very rich. You know, uh totally agree with you. When I think about I'm reflecting on your or your reflection on the four flows, I personally always define myself as an operator more of a plan to catch lenses, right? Which is the way of me redefining the supply chain. Now, you run that same system, but at Nestle's scale and across different cultures, regulations, and maturity level, right? That that's super difficult. So how those operating at that scale teach you that then smaller systems can simply do that.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yeah, you're right. I think when we talk about large organizations like Nestle and many other big multinational corporations, you need to be very clear about one very basic advice. The basic advice is that you need to make right choices about what will you leverage and what will you localize. It's it's simple, but it is crucial. When you want to leverage, you want to leverage the size, the scale, and very importantly the skills. Size and scale is something which people understand often the manufacturing scale, volume aggregation for procurement, distribution network design, all those things are a matter of scale and size, which you must leverage. Because if a global corporation does not leverage its size and scale, it'll become uncompetitive. Uh so that's that's absolutely fundamental. And by the way, one more important arena of leveraging size and scale is resilience. Because when you want alternatives in your manufacturing network, your distribution network, or redundancy in your capacity, the scale and size allows you to do that. Doing regional supplies, supplying intercontinental, which both you and I have done in during various crises, that's what is the leveraging size and scale. But leveraging skill is very important because what it allows you to do is to take the learnings from one market from biogeography and apply it to so many geographies. I'll give an example. So we have modern trade in various parts of the world and we have traditional trade distributors. So, how do you run with a distributor is a skill, it's a different skill compared to how you run with a Walmart or a Carford. So, how do you manage distributors? So, if you learn how to uh manage distributors in one particular market, say India, Indonesia, you can apply that learning across to like 25 different countries. You can leverage your skill to say that this is the best model for working with distributors, and this is how we apply this knowledge to so many different countries. So, leveraging that skill size side is very important. But then you have to be clear about what you will not leverage. Where are you going to be more local in terms of whether product offering, uh, customer proximity? Where are you going to adapt and make sure that you are serving consumers and customers, and you're not trying to impose a head office leverage kind of a mindset across the entire group. So that's that choice becomes very, very important when you operate in large organizations. At the same time, there are opportunities like technology. You can deploy technology at a large scale rather than reinventing the wheel in each market. For example, digital technologies in planning. You can establish centers of scale, you can establish centers of excellence, which allows you to do business very efficiently and roll out your technology much faster. There are some downsides too in a large organization because if you don't manage these things very well, you can become very slow in decision making. Bureaucracy can come into place, politics can come into place, the role of the headquarters, the role of the region, role of the countries, that politics can come into play. So you have to manage that. If you don't manage that, the disadvantages will outweigh the advantages.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Let me dig a little bit to that. Let me dig a little bit to that because you didn't really just run supply chains, you really transform them, right? That unless you led an end-to-end transformation across planning, logistics, customer service, materials management, sustainability, digital. So, what is the hardest thing about transforming supply chain when it's already working, right? It's already performing to a certain degree well, but you need to transform it. How do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Well, it reminds me, Luis, of a quote from Winston Churchill never waste a crisis. And there are always occasions in business where you need to upgrade the performance to a completely different level. For some organizations, it's crisis like COVID. So I was saying it jokingly, but not so jokingly as well, because every business has a burning platform. Sometimes it's growth, sometimes it's capital efficiency, sometimes it's cash generation. So it's extremely important for a supply chain leader to be completely business oriented and be clear about what is the agenda of the board and the CEO, what are the burning business platforms which can be leveraged to make sure that you can start your transformation of your end-to-end supply chain. That's one thing. The second lens, which I've always followed, is we cannot look at our performance in isolation. It has to be looked at through the lens of competitive advantage. I always tell people that it's not a question of how good you are. The question is, are you superior to competition? Because consumer has a choice. If you are not superior to competition in terms of the availability of your product, in terms of value of money proposition, in terms of the trust and the quality of your products and brands, you will lose out. So the lens is competition. How is competitive doing? And how are they evolving, which is happening very fast. So it's always you have to be on your toes to keep on improving. So that's how those are some of the platforms I always leveraged for the transformation. Um, the difficulty comes, if you're talking about difficulty, if you do not explain why to the organization. If you try to impose something, oh, this is a program from the headquarters, we're going to do this, etc., and without taking the people on board. So, in my experience, Luis, sometimes I waited for several months. For example, I'll give you an example. I launched a logistics cost reduction program of a $1 billion cost reduction, very ambitious program. In three years, $1 billion we will save. I designed the whole program, worked with a lot of stakeholders. I did not launch it. I waited for it to make sure that when I communicate this to the different countries and different markets, they don't, they not only understand it, but they own it. And one more thing which I did, uh which might help uh some people in their way of doing things, is that I asked all the countries, all the geographies in the Nestle world to give me their inputs on what we should do, how should our supply chain strategy be formed? What are the main things which will make them competitive in the marketplace? So this was a very unique exercise, and people appreciated that. So I got the inputs from all the markets, and then when we wrote back to markets about strategy, we said these are your inputs. Basis, your inputs, we've consolidated this, these are the main programs and strategies we're going to launch. So, what you end up doing in the process, Lewis, is to co-create the strategy. When you co-create the strategy, then it is owned by people. And it is it is their strategy that we're talking about, not imposed from headquarters and we know what to do and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I think that's the smartest way to really uh get people behind the strategy, just uh that people run towards the flat pole. But nonetheless, you you sell them eventually, and you start wanting a transformation. And no matter what, those large transformation programs often lose momentum, right? Over time. You know, there's it's years of transformation, so people move, everything. So, so what governance, leadership, or cultural mechanism help you to sustain that momentum across that multi-year change program? Because that's that's that's very difficult in some moments.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

That's a great question, Louise. Fortunately, I've had a lot of experience of doing that because I did transformations in global planning, in logistics, in networks, in procurement, and order to cash, I mean, you name it. I did a number of them in the six years that I was in the chair for as global head of supply chain. Uh so first thing I would say is that I've always said that transformation is a science as well as an art. It's a bird which flies on two wings. No bird can fly on one wing, regardless of how strong one wing is. So if you don't look at the science aspect, is you plan your projects, you plan your resources, technology, data, X, Y, Z, da, da, da, da, da. But the art side is that how do you communicate? How do you take people on board? How do you take care of the politics in the organization? So if you're doing a change management, it is impacting the power structure of some people. It is impacting their roles and responsibilities, their decision making, etc. How do you take care of that? How do you take care of making sure that you're managing stakeholders, et cetera, et cetera? That's the art part. So, first of all, I would say that every leader needs to make sure that she is not just focused on the science part, which we all know inherently very well, but we are equally good and equally focused on the art side of transformation. That's that's very important. The other thing is the co-creation, which I talked about before. But in addition to that, you need to make sure that you have a very strong business case. I always worked with the cross-functionally, with sales, with finance in particular, to make sure that we have a very strong business case for what we are doing and why we're doing it, and being bold about it. Uh, for example, did uh customer centrality transformation in Nestle. But I worked very closely with sales, 100% partnership with sales to make sure that we're talking about this program in order to grow sales, in order to grow market share, in order to grow our rankings in the advantage group survey, for example, being having a very, very clear rationale about it and having a conscious stakeholder management strategy. So, for example, I always tell people I used to use a model called BEST, which is classifying your stakeholders in four categories: barriers, D for barriers, E for enablers, S for skeptics, and T for transformers. I mean, classify your stakeholders in different buckets and be clear who belongs where, and you manage it accordingly. A skeptic needs to be managed differently compared to an enabler or somebody who is a complete barrier, is going to sabotage your transformation. So you need to be very clear about how are you managing your stakeholders and uh also at the same time having clear races because you need to have clarity about what is the role of different entities in the organization and how will you make those decisions. And and maybe just the last I would say is the so-called aspect called culture. People talk about culture often. I'm very emphatic about culture. I tell people that strategy and culture is like like bow and arrow. So your strategy is your arrow, but your culture is the bow. It's the bow which decides whether your arrow will travel in the right direction at the right speed with the right force, and it'll hit the target or it will fall off. So you need to see strategy and culture as a combination together, not just the strategy, but seeing the culture aspects. Culture means what is being recognized in the organization, who gets promoted, which behaviors are rewarded, which behaviors are punished. So you need to be clear about that aspect for the transformation to actually be successful. So there are a number of these factors which come into play. And a lot of them are on the art side of the transformation. The science side is still simpler. You can have a project management, you can have technology, you can have resources, but that's sort of still clear. The other side is the one which fails.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

You definitely have to be a good archer given that your ball, your arrow hit the bullseye several times during your career. So congratulations on that. But now, as we talk supply transformation, right? It's difficult to transform today without bringing technology into the conversation today's world. And you live through multiple ways of supply chain technology, call it ERPs, advanced planning, AI, control towers. You know, now which technologies from your perspective really change outcomes? And which only change PowerPoint decks, for lack of a better term.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah. Well, um, since I'm an old man, I started from the ERP. Yeah, I would say ERPs did add value at that stage. But you need to be clear about that ERPs basically added value in terms of managing transactions and having basic data available. For example, in Nestle, we had a single instance of SAP globally, which helped me a lot in making sure that we get in basic information about the sales, the stock. And the inventory and the flows easily. So ERPs did have their value. But ERPs did not have value beyond that. The layer of intelligence, the layer of prediction, the layer of planning, I think ERPs struggled with that. Subsequently, to take your examples, when we implemented transport control towers and transport hubs, actually, which we also included procurement in that, that did add a lot of value in terms of cost efficiency, in terms of visibility, especially when COVID happened, we were able to see that much more easily. Managing procurement, managing the service to customers, managing disruptions, there are a lot of value which came through these technologies. However, having said that, the era that we are in now is most exciting about technologies. What is available today and what's possible today onwards? I wish I had 10 years ago when I was running supply chain.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

We were born 10 years later than we should. I fully agree with you. So so it's go ahead and go ahead. And then the key question that I always end up asking is which problem are you really fixing? Are you fixing it or just making it more visible? Not really fixing it. So when you advise companies in startups, and not only startups, but different companies today, what distinguishes scalable innovation in the technology set from just nice to have tools?

unknown 23:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

So maybe allow me to go back to this topic of technology. I I often tell people jokingly that you need two things to run your business properly. One is a crystal ball, and another is a magic wand. If you had a crystal ball, you'll be able to see prices, weather, wars, and everything properly. And if you had a magic wand, you will magically connect the entire ecosystem from suppliers to consumers and have a beautiful supply chain. Now, this unfortunately, these two things are not available. So we don't have a crystal ball or a magic wand. But the reason I make this point, Luis, is that digital technologies are the next best thing that you can have to crystal ball and magic wand. And I say this with all seriousness. I start as a joke, but but it's a serious point that the way digital technologies are evolving, they are going to give you capabilities which are closer to crystal ball and closer to magic wand. Not exactly that, but that's how good the technologies can be, provided you know how to leverage technologies. I tell people that the evolution of technologies on a scale of 10 probably is probably already seven or maybe whatever it is, it's very high. But the ability of the companies to leverage technology, unfortunately, on a scale of one to ten is at best three. I'm finding that companies are not able to leverage what's out there to improve their operations in terms of speed, cost, efficiency, and so on and so forth. So few points with regard to that. First is that you should never start with the technology mindset, you should start with the capability mindset. So, what capabilities do I need in my business to succeed? And I classify capabilities, Louis, in six categories: visibility, integration, simulation, prediction, optimization, and prescription. These are six capabilities that you need in the business, right from strategy to execution. So you need to be clear about what capability do I need for servicing my customers? What do I need for efficient production, for efficient buying, for planning? And then think about the technology roadmap, not the other way around that you start with the technology and see, okay, how do I use it? How do I deploy this? That's that's the first uh important thing. Second is to make sure that your digital strategy is not a spaghetti, in the sense that sometimes finance buys the technology and sales guys buy the technology, and different countries buy the technology, and you end up with an absolute perfect spaghetti of technologies, which is not connected, which is not coherent, which is not going to give you the advantages I'm talking about. So you still need a coherent digital strategy. And I, by the way, believe that supply chain leaders can play a very key role in designing that because you see the business end-to-end. Naturally, you see that. So you can be a part of that uh that strategy. If you take that kind of a framework and that kind of a mindset, then you can leverage technologies to really generate the benefits which I was uh talking about earlier. Though I would also say that it's very crucial because if you don't do that properly, you can become uncompetitive very soon.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Yeah, no, fulfill. You know, let me let me elaborate. I love your analogy for spaghetti. So um, so as looking ahead, you know, as as we think on making reactionable for people right here in this conversation. So, what capabilities define successful supply chain leaders in a digital first world? And think of a lot of them have to deal with spaghetti today, but they want to get more of a lasagna, if I allow that the conversation where they have layers that they interconnected and they be so what what I think what is that uh um that capability needed for those leaders? Is technical fluency or system thinking, leadership, a little bit of all. What's your perspective?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Um, I I would give a slightly different answer to this, Luis. I I think the supply chain leaders will need a new pair of eyes. They really want to look at the future and how technology is evolving. What do I mean by that? What I mean by that is to recognize that our existing structures, our existing processes, existing operating models were designed in the pre-technology era. By pre-technology, I mean the latest technology which is coming, which is AI-based and predictive and autonomous and so on and so forth. For example, organization structures were designed, taking a task, breaking it into steps, and then we clustered steps into what we call functions. So, entire functional organization that we have today in almost all organizations, and the way we've designed processes, they are pre-technology, they're obsolete if I can be very strong about it. So, what today today's technology is going to give you things which are autonomous, which are connected, which are continuous, they're running continuously and running with least human uh intervention as we go forward. So, which means you need to have the ability, that's why I said a new pair of eyes, to completely reimagine the processes, completely reimagine the operating model. Tinkering will not do. If you take the current structure, current processes, and add some pieces of technology, like we sprinkle salt and pepper over food, that's not going to work. You need to completely redesign some of these things. And it also requires the ability to see business through the lens of not the functions and the structures, but seeing business as a set of decisions. At the end of the day, business is a set of decisions and processes that are running day in, day out. And once you start to see through that lens, then you can see how I can completely redesign processes, structure, operating model with the new technology that I have today. So that's the ability which supply chain guys will require if they really want to leverage the new technologies which are which are which are coming ahead. And another thing, very, very crucial, is that how do they digitize knowledge? Because as you and I both know, a lot of knowledge is in our head. You and I knew when we were operating that, okay, this part of the world in this month, this can be the problem, or this customer behaves this way, that way. I mean, there are millions of things which are in our heads. Now, the decision making, which is going to be autonomous, is going to be only as good as the knowledge that you feed to it. So we talk about data and we talk about data is a very limited thing. We need to talk about total knowledge of the enterprise. So, how are you going to bring that knowledge into the AI model, into your agentic uh behaviors or the decision-making processes? That will be the differentiator between success and failure. If you cannot bring in the right knowledge to the model, then you will only utilize maybe 20 to 25% of the knowledge of the possible contribution of technology, which is going to be a pity. So that's the kind of skills the supply chain ERS will require in the times ahead, in my view.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

I think your answer is so powerful that I just want to paraphrase what I heard because I think it will be rich for the audience. So it's not not live with data, but live with knowledge plus data. Do you need to get bold? You also talk about the digital capabilities for the people, plus rethink and reorganize, uh, take the opportunity with new technology to rethink the workflows and the processes to make them better, and then only then you know get the right technology that enables the business to succeed. So I think it's it's super rich advice. I appreciate that. Um now let me pivot a little bit. So because you've operated at scale and you've influenced industry web initiatives as well, and now you're advising across companies, and that gives you a very unique vantage point. And now, from advantage advisory, you now operate across strategy, transformation, execution. You probably see repeating patterns. Which ones do you, which are the ones that most companies, you have to pick one, you know, which is the one that most companies reach out to you and say, hey, please help me?

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah, I think there are three or four common themes running loose. A lot of it is linked to technology. I must say that any conversation that I have with any company, whether it's about revenue growth management, whether it's about planning, whether it's about any area of business resilience, it's invariably linked with technology, which is good news as well. I think most organizations are looking at how to leverage the new technology capabilities, specifically AI, but a lot more than that. So this term called digital transformation comes up in almost every conversation that I do. The second thing is the term transformation, which comes because people are looking at transforming their order to cash process, their planning process, how do they manage their networks, or establishing centers of skills and centers of excellence. That's also very common. So the transformation projects are very, very common, which are being talked about everywhere because of the business pressures and call it the opportunities which are our way. Third, and it would surprise you, is cost efficiency. It's it's everywhere, and it's very common to look at what are the common sources of uh of cost efficiency that we can talk about. At the same time, I also see people talking about uh preparing for this continuous disruption. The whole definition of resilience is changing, and people understand that it's not crisis management anymore, it's not disruption management anymore. It's like how do we operate in a world in which we know there will be surprises very frequently and very commonly. So, how do we operate in that kind of an environment? I would call it the expanded definition of resilience. That's the fourth common theme which I find in discussion uh these days. And the fifth, to some extent, not enough in my view, is growth focus. But I find it less compared to the first four uh that I've talked about.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

That's absolutely right. You know, I I don't want I don't want to to leave this conversation without asking you. You you have also a very unique uh perspective on sustainability, and it'll be a shame if I don't ask you at least one question about it because uh, for people, you you read uh the sustainable supply chain initiative at the Consumer Goods Forum. You helped redefine what goods look good looks like on that perspective. So, how do leaders balance the commercial performance, the profitability that you're talking about with societal responsibility without really become the without making really sustainability become just theater, right? Just just lipstick on a pee.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Yeah, absolutely. Um I do have a different view here, but but I want to state it clearly. I think the so-called conflict between performance and sustainability is only partially right. I would not say it's completely wrong, but the fact is that the perception that the two are at conflict is not entirely correct. Allow me to explain that. I think we need to redefine sustainability first of all, always. We've always associated the term sustainability with the environment. Whereas we can reframe this definition to say that what do I need to do to make sure that my business keeps on running next five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, 30 years. That's real sustainability. Can I sustain my business? And once you start seeing through that lens, you start to take different actions. Suppose, suppose I'm in a business which is buying cocoa, like uh as a food company. I need to make sure that there will be sufficient cocoa production in the years ahead, because if there is not, then I won't be able to run my business in the first place. Or if there's not enough food products available production available for you to produce your products. So that's sustainability, availability of agricultural products which are raw materials for your business, is a part of the definition of sustainability. And once you start applying that lens, your perspective also changes. So I have often seen and I often frame this debate as delivering the quarter versus delivering the future. Delivering the quarter obviously is important. It's crucial because the stock market is asking you, stakeholders are asking you, you have to pressure. But as business leaders, we are equally responsible for delivering the future. So you have to make sure that your business can be sustained in the future. That's the lens you need to apply to make sure that your business keeps running. Now, find common grounds. I'll give you two or three examples. Everything that you do for sustainability in logistics reduces your cost. Empty miles, distance, vehicle loading, everything that you do in sustainability reduces your cost. So find common points between cost efficiency and sustainability. Secondly, take resilience. When you map your upstream supply chain and get into detailed understanding of your tier one, tier two, tier three, tier four suppliers from a sustainability angle, the same transparency gives you resilience for managing your supplies, assessing your risks, making changes. So it's not just sustainability, it's also giving you resilience. So try to find which are the common grounds between your cost efficiency, between your resilience, and your agility. You'll find, if I can give you a rough figure, that 80% of the work that you want to do in sustainability is going to give you business results in various areas. And there's a 20%, which probably is going to so-called conflict with the commercial object. So it's very important to understand that 80% of the agenda is going to serve your business well in any case. So that you can you can fine-tune your efforts. Maybe 20% is a conflict which you can manage over a period of time and change the pace of implementation of that. And that's a new lens you need to look at sustainability through.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

I fully agree. And I love how you reframe it because really when you make sustainability part of the DNA of the organization for the sake of best results for the business, and you align with with the with sustainable initiatives, it's it's it's a double one-year success. So fully, fully agree. I love that that framework. So two last questions. We're getting to the end of our time here together. So let me ask you one more for advice to high potential supply chain leaders, right? Uh with that earlier in their career today. You know, what experiences should they actively seek out to build enterprise level impact? Go back in your time three years ago or four years ago. You know, what would you have done differently or or nothing?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Yeah. No, I that's a very good question. And I would like to advise people who are building their career in supply chain on a few aspects. First, is to be truly clear about end-to-end, but not end-to-end as a buzzword. It comes in every PowerPoint slide, truly end-to-end. I had the fortune of doing that because I shifted in manufacturing, finance, sales, and so on and so forth. But if you don't have a specific focus on that, how do I learn the business end-to-end? How can I be more multifunctional? Whether by changing my role or participating in projects or taking the initiative, understand finance, understand sales, understand marketing, RD. So be truly end-to-end in business. Second, I would say Louis is external focus. By external focus means being really obsessed with what consumers need, what customers need, what's competition doing, how do suppliers operate, how do contract manufacturers operate, how do I collaborate with them, and how do I do information exchange with them, be truly external focus because that's the real strength of supply chain. That's the real DNA of uh supply chain. Then we talked about the topic of technology, being very proficient about, being very savvy about how technology will bring capabilities into my supply chain, which will make it agile, resilient, sustainable, growth, and so on and so forth. But but understanding the technology, not in technical terms, but in terms of how does it serve my business, that's very, very crucial. And I always tell people that be a be a business leader in supply chain and not a supply chain leader in business. And there is a fundamental difference between the two. You need to be a person who understands business very well and then brings in supply chain knowledge into that. And it's not that you're a supply chain guy who understands business a little bit, it's the other way around. Be a business leader in supply chain. That's very important. And last but not the least, I learned this lesson early in my career in Australia, dealing with tough customers is that leave your ego in the car park. That's very important.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Yeah, no, absolutely. You need that thick skin that you need as part of part of the role. So, one final question, and and for this one, I would really like to hear from Vinid the visionary, right? So let's let's do a zoom out, look ahead. And the you know, the next chapter supply chain is already taking shape now, right? So, what fundamental shifts in leadership, not just management, leadership, a record in global supply chains to sustain positive progress for business and society, you know, but also reversing some of the negative momentum that is happening in some areas, like sustainability from the traditional definition in some parts of the world, right? So, how what is that skill that makes leaders excel in supply chain 10 years from now?

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Great question, uh Luis. And and since it's a question which is more about vision, I allow me to also start from that level. There's a quote which I often use uh by gentlemen called Victor Hugo who says that nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come. I work from the paradigm that supply chain is an idea whose time has come.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

I fully agree.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

I I work from this uh paradigm that supply chain as a profession or whatever term you want to use is now crucial for businesses to operate and succeed in the years ahead. Therefore, it's the golden phase for supply chain leaders to bring the supply chain to its full potential and be a true co-pilot to this CEO. I know this term is often used for finance, I have no problem with that, but I genuinely think that given the impact of supply chain, as we talked about at the beginning of this podcast, supply chain guys are the true co-pilot of the business these days. That's the kind of possibility that you have in the role. You talked about a lot of environmental challenges, which we call VUCA or whatever terminology we use for that. I do think that that provides a supply chain a platform to really prove its worth and become more competitive. At the end of the day, in business, the success lies in being more competitive on better than your competition. So if you can manage VUCA better, whether with technology or various points that we talked about before, then you are superior to competition in terms of performance. So therefore, the so-called VUCA is also an opportunity for supply chain to really bring the profession to its uh full light. But this will require business leaders, uh, not supply chain leaders. We need business leaders' kind of a mindset, speaking the business language, being very close to consumers and customers, being very technology savvy, but definitely coming back to what I was saying before is to reframe your role, reposition your role, redesign your role. Don't continue what was being done in the past. That's not fit for the future. And that's not fit for the kind of potential that lies ahead of the supply chain as a community or as a profession, in my view.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Just to echo that, and just my personal view on this, it's easier for supply chain leaders to become business leaders than the reverse business leaders become supply chain experts. That's just my personal view. And I think the opportunities here and the for people, hopefully, they get excited by hearing this conversation. This really chat truly reflects what it takes to run the world supply chains, leadership at scale, technology with intent, decisions that extend just beyond the factory of the balance sheet. Thank you for sharing uh your experience, your perspective, your candor. I love talking with you. I love your metaphorical way of speaking. It's super didactical for people to make it easy to understand. So uh thanks for that. And you know, any final remarks from your perspective that you want to add?

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Well, thank you for the opportunity. I enjoyed the conversation, Luis. And as I said at the beginning, I hope it is uh provides some food for thought uh to people out there, and hopefully it helps them in building their career and their success more and more. Thanks again. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Thank you for being here. To our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share it with fellow operators, innovators, and leaders across the supply chain ecosystem. I'm Luis Olana, and this is the Momentum Flow, where clarity, capital, and conviction keep supply chains and leaders moving forward. Until next time, stay curious, stay connected, and keep the momentum flowing. Thank you.